| It is coz many people don't know from where to start, its watch order is very complicated, so many details got missed I guess |
| Its easy to follow fate series if you just watch it the correct way. And every single season has an explanation of this war thing. Why do they even find this complicated? |
| Because Fate fans themselves can't agree on how to start watching Fate. This just confuses newcomers. Imagine 10 different people all telling you different ways to get into a franchise. Moreover, there are also a lot of entries to watch. |
| Gintoki and Sugita's birthdays are 1 day apart. |
Ahmad2345 said: I've been fate fans since 2016 (Fate/Zero was my first anime by the way), But I've seen many anime fans (usually the new/young one) keep saying that Fate series is either complicated...or complete mess. Why is that? What do you all think? Just start with fate/zero, then watch UBW and then HF. It's not complicated, it's just confusing in the first season of zero. |
| I think after seeing Heavens feel conclude evrybody has a sense what Fate is about and the lore behind it |
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| Most of them are either midcore or rather trash expect for fate zero ofc Also ufotable factor Basically from anime if you watch zero then pick up either ubw or heveans route you are good more or less |
| It's mainly because some Fate fans are annoying and over complicate the watching order it's really not complicated at all. Fate/Zero was my second anime I watched when I first started and I didn't find it hard to follow the correct watching order. |
| The problem are clearly the fans that can't explain properly. Fate/Stay Night (2006) V Fate/Stay Night : Unlimited Blade Works - Prologue Fate/Stay Night : Unlimited Blade Works Fate/Stay Night : Unlimited Blade Works 2nd Season Fate/Stay Night : Unlimited Blade Works 2nd Season - Sunny Day V Fate/Stay Night Movie : Heaven's Feel I - Presage Flower Fate/Stay Night Movie : Heaven's Feel II - Lost Butterfly Fate/Stay Night Movie : Heaven's Feel III - Spring Song V Fate/Zero Fate/Zero 2nd Season Fate/Stay Night (2006) is considered as a bad adaptation. Fate/Zero is a Prequel , so it should be watched after , but it's considered as the best serie. So it's basically a choose your poison. - Start with the bad adaptation. - Start with the 2nd route. - Absolutely do not start with the 3rd route. - Start with the Prequel. If only peoples could say that instead of "Watch Zero then drop" or "Skip 2006"... I'm sure the world would be in peace. |
 "Genius lives only one story above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
| "fans keep saying that Fate series is either complicated...or complete mess Why is that?" People like to overdramatize. |
| It's not complicated at all. Gundam is WAY harder to get into. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| It's not complicated at all. Just watch Fate/Zero and Heaven's Feel I and II, then you can stop. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| The fate series is mostly garbage. First one I saw was fate/stay night. For the time it was very middle of the road. Today however, it sucks. Fate zero was good. fate prototype doesnt count unlimited blade works just dragged on to long to the point it was boring. Apocrypha is bad fanfiction with all the fanfiction tropes. i gave up around this point |
| https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here |
| I had completed fate series i.e. fate zero,stay night/unlimited blade/heaven feel(oh sity 2hrs of movie).The main problem is that the story rewind itself . Anime has three ending but many of the scene are same.This is the problem That made it not exited Second it is OVA And other small series.This made me confuse what to watch so I dopped after heaven feel. |
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| Too many spinoffs Fate fans can't agree on a proper watch order People are overreacting cuz just telling them that there are 3 alternate timelines will make them act like it's the most confusing thing ever Honestly Gundam and Monogatari have a lot more confusing watch order |
TyraqAug 27, 2021 4:18 AM
| This comes from me, who only watched F/SN 2006 and Fate/Extra. Fate Franchise has it's own way of storytelling to each adaptation title available. There's no absolute "correct" way to start it. You could start it with UBW first, Zero first, 2006 first or whichever you wanna start it with and wouldn't be confused for the most part because it has it's own explanation for each show. The one who made it seem complicated is the fandom itself. They oftenly seen arguing with each other about which watchorder is the correct one, and they also oftenly seen fighting with each other about which Fate route is the best out of them all. This fandom is just toxic to each other. Even so, I think you should pick one of the available watchorder recommended by the fandom, 'cause each of the watchorder would help the potential watcher to get to know the characters better. Oh, and beware of those haters. Fate also has these haters who spat out hate thing towards the franchise whenever they could, and they're loud as hell. |
  "ꜱᴛʀᴇɴɢᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ʜᴇᴀʀᴛ, ᴡʜᴇɴ ᴜɴɪᴛᴇᴅ, ɪᴛ'ꜱ ʙᴀʀʀᴇᴅ ʙʏ ɴᴏ ᴅᴏᴏʀ..." -Aigis |
| Probably because: A) they don't understand how multiverse works B) they don't understand how visual novel routes work C) they don't understand how spin-offs work D) they paid attention to the idiots who keep recommending to start the franchise with Zero/UBW, or... E) all of the above. |
OrororurandoAug 26, 2021 2:01 PM
Threatheen said: as Stay Night ruins Zero's ending That's the equivalent of saying that Empire Strikes Back ruined Revenge of the Sith's ending 20 years later by "spoiling" that Anakin will become Darth Vader. Do people really not understand that maybe, just maybe, prequels are meant to be watched with knowledge of future events in mind? |
| It is complicated but it shouldn't be. This thread alone has several people saying "Oh it's simple, just start with this" but they're all saying different starting points. No-one can agree on what the watch order is so for a newbie trying to figure out where to start it's daunting because they obviously think it's really important when in actual fact, I'm not sure it matters all that much really. |
  🔥 🔥 🔥 . 阿良々木 暦, 傷 物 語 . 🔥 🔥 🔥 Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for a night but set a man on fire and you'll warm him for the rest of his life... - H E N D Y - |
| fate universe so huge but main story started from fate zero then ended with fate heaven feel |
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| It's probably because the 2006 one messed up the story and that Zero was adapted before the rest of Stay Night, if it was adapted like the original story (Fate > UBW > HF > Zero) it probably wouldn't have confused people. |
Stygian_Prisoner said: they paid attention to the idiots who keep recommending to start the franchise with Zero/UBW Ohhh and the VN purists went totally elitist on the whole thing... |
CLADDAN said: yeah so if ufotable hopefully readapts stay night with great production after they are done with demon slayer then people will go with that orderIt's probably because the 2006 one messed up the story and that Zero was adapted before the rest of Stay Night, if it was adapted like the original story (Fate > UBW > HF > Zero) it probably wouldn't have confused people. |
 "Hard work is worthless for those that don’t believe in themselves" - Naruto Uzumaki I rate by enjoyment |
Ahmad2345 said: I've been fate fans since 2016 (Fate/Zero was my first fate anime by the way), But I've seen many anime fans (usually the new/young one) keep saying that Fate series is either complicated...or complete mess. Why is that? What do you all think? Because Fate materials these days don't care about the newcomers. Take Heaven's Feel for instance. Anyone who never read the VN and never saw F/Z and FSN (either OG or UBW) would have a hard time appreciating it fully. And when these same people see an oldtime fate consumer say they hate Sakura, they will be appalled and confused as to why since they never saw the part in the VN where Sakura threw her own biological sister into the worm pit, the same older sister who was following her around in secret to try to make sure she was happy in her new adopted family for the last ten years (not that Sakura bothered to let out even a single verbal or non-verbal peep about how badly it was going). They would also miss much of the lore surrounding the Jewel Sword of Zelretch. Without the understanding of the role that Gilgamesh played in Fate and UBW routes, they won't understand why he is even in HF movies at all. Then you got works like Fate Apocrypha which don't fully explain what the backdrop behind its set up is, so if you never had someone explain to you that Apoc replaces F/Z's grail war or how the 3rd grail war diverged to let it happen, you will be confused why the hell 14 servants are fighting each other in Romania and hiring random mages from London to help with it no less. Babylonia is another offender. It's great fanservice for the older fate fans but for new people, they can watch the OVA and sort of get the set up for the FGO storyline but then skipping 6 singularities all the way to the 7th one leaves them UTTERLY confused. Yes, the older fans insist that the first 6 singularities aren't necessary because the story sucks. Yet, they take for granted that they were only able to follow along in the 7th one without a massive disconnect because they were playing FGO and knew the story for the first 6 singularities as well as all the information revealed in it. Case Files suffer the same problem. They animated a part of the story and left the rest out. This leaves people confused wtf is going on. Especially if someone didn't watch F/Z and have no idea the extent of Waver's obsession with Broskander. And the worst offender is probably Last Encore. People think Last Encore is Extraverse newbie friendly because of the way its marketted but it is in fact a sequel to the F/E game AU to the other sequels. Not only are newbies to Fate confused wtf is going on, even people who are veterans in the franchise get confused af about it since Last Encore does not explain any of the world-building and lore that F/E explained throughout the game. The recommendation for Last Encore is actually to play through at least one route in F/E (Saber route) before watching it. |
BalsaminaAug 26, 2021 5:47 PM
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
| The watch order is unclear, which is part of the problem, but not the whole problem. Somehow people have no problems navigating monogatari-series, even if the complexity is about the same as with Fate. I think it's mainly the fact that tackling Fate just seems like a daunting task, with the multiple games, anime, manga etc. |
alshu said: Ohhh and the VN purists went totally elitist on the whole thing... Ok, Real Talk: I haven't even touched the F/SN VN yet (I plan to do so eventually, though), so I'm the furthest thing from a purist. In the eyes of a true Fate elitist, i'd be considered nothing more than a "filthy secondary", as I've only experienced the anime series and nothing else. It just kinda pisses me off to see people recommending newbies to start with a prequel (Zero) that casually spoils most of the slow-burning mysteries from the original story it derives from (Stay Night) and even requires previous knowledge of said predecessor's whole story in order to fully appreciate. And it also pisses me off that people recommend newbies to outright skip the literal first 1/3rd of the entire original story (F/SN 2006) which lays all the basic groundwork for the rest, and then they expect those newbies to not be confused when UBW and HF start taking all these crazy deviations and left turns from the previous route they build off of. Honestly, it's some people's blatant disregard for author's intended narrative flow and coherence when it comes to recommending certain franchise orders that just makes my blood boil. Like, imagine someone recommending a Kingdom Hearts newcomer to start with Birth by Sleep (with its convoluted post-KH2 style of writing) just because it's the first game in the chronology ... instead of just recommending the original KH1, which is much more straightforward and basic as an actual introduction. Makes no sense to me. Anyways, rant over lol. |
OrororurandoAug 26, 2021 6:33 PM
| Because fandom is worst and like to complicate things for newcomers |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| More and more entries are added so to those who aren't familiar, it looks more complex than it is |
 ManWild |
| While the watch order fiasco will always be a very toxic thing, most of the people who have spoken to me about why they can't get into Fate have blamed not the watch order, but because they have no idea what the rest of us nasufans are happily chatting about most of the time. Understandable, the anime literally avoids any mention of the Textures, planet class, & solar system class spirits that have ironically become the focus of the whole franchise over the years. It's quite a time sink, and some aren't willing to go through the investment of all the forms of media |
Tap_Dancin_KaijuAug 26, 2021 9:03 PM
| Fate is a fucking convoluted mess and I think that is self evident with how many people debate viewing order instead of the actual contents of the show. Even at a basic level I'm often confused why they don't regularly kill people on the spot often bringing Shirou especially to the edge of his life and then walking. Magic, it's limits and consequences is poorly articulated. And character motivation is often poorly substantiated making the whole cast seem really unqualified to be putting their lives on the line for the holy grail. |
So you are even worst since you are imitating the VN purist elitists? Stygian_Prisoner said: It just kinda pisses me off to see people recommending newbies to start with a prequel (Zero) Because Zero explains the magical system and does a lot of important world building stuff. F/SN drags with Shiro's preachy boring monologues and every magical event makes no sense if you lack context (because the rules are broken on purpose). If you haven't started with Zero those would look very meh. And the so called "irredeemable spoilers" it's kind of a symmetric thing - starting with F/SN will spoil you for F/Z, starting with F/Z will spoil you for F/SN. IMO it's better to understand what is going on in F/SN than being underwhelmed by very obvious/standard twists - nothing is what is seems (duuuh), weirdly talking guy is indeed evil, creepy guy who appeared out of nowhere is indeed evil ect. In the end of the day it's a matter of preference. Calling people idiots for choosing differently is kind of harsh. |
Theo1899 said: I want to get into Gundam but there's too many Gundams and Idk if I have to watch every one of it as I have heard many Gundam series are bad as well many of them are fantastic.It's not complicated at all. Gundam is WAY harder to get into. |
    ═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════  |
| Because Nasu is a hack. Haha this character looks exactly like a preexisting character but they have absolutely 0 connection because fuck you |
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adnan_ said: Theo1899 said: I want to get into Gundam but there's too many Gundams and Idk if I have to watch every one of it as I have heard many Gundam series are bad as well many of them are fantastic.It's not complicated at all. Gundam is WAY harder to get into. It's a mess as no one can agree on the best entry point, best watch order, whether certain series can be skipped, which series can be skipped or even which series are good or bad. My recommended watch order involves watching all UC (original seires, zeta, zz etc.) entries in order of release and the non UC series whenever you please but a lot of people don't like the slow pacing of the early series so they prefer the movies. It's not a bad idea imo, I've watched the zeta films and they were quite good and I heard the 0079 films are also great. I'll say this though: I watched the entire franchise in a completely messed up order and got something out of it so don't worry too much. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
Theo1899 said: adnan_ said: I want to get into Gundam but there's too many Gundams and Idk if I have to watch every one of it as I have heard many Gundam series are bad as well many of them are fantastic. It's a mess as no one can agree on the best entry point, best watch order, whether certain series can be skipped, which series can be skipped or even which series are good or bad. My recommended watch order involves watching all UC (original seires, zeta, zz etc.) entries in order of release and the non UC series whenever you please but a lot of people don't like the slow pacing of the early series so they prefer the movies. It's not a bad idea imo, I've watched the zeta films and they were quite good and I heard the 0079 films are also great. I'll say this though: I watched the entire franchise in a completely messed up order and got something out of it so don't worry too much. Ahmad2345 said: Thank you very much for the explanation. I'll try my best to understand it XDadnan_ said: for Gundam, if you looking forward for original timeline (Universal Century) you Can start with Gundam Origin, After that you start with Gundam (1979). Gundam also have alternative timeline which aren't connected with Universal Century AKA UC timeline (For example, Gundam 00, Gundam X, Mobile Fighter G Gundam, and Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans). Universal Century has It own guide, While other Gundam timelines Can be watched without need to watch Universal Century timeline. I recommended Gundam 00 and Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans for newbie.I want to get into Gundam but there's too many Gundams and Idk if I have to watch every one of it as I have heard many Gundam series are bad as well many of them are fantastic. |
═════════════════════════════ You're going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn't it? I'm sure you'll overcome this. You'll walk again... soon. ═════════════════════════════ |
| People try getting into Saint seiya as a whole that thing rival fate and gundam |
adnan_ said: Theo1899 said: I want to get into Gundam but there's too many Gundams and Idk if I have to watch every one of it as I have heard many Gundam series are bad as well many of them are fantastic.It's not complicated at all. Gundam is WAY harder to get into. And it will only get more complicated cause more and more Gundam coming ever other season iirc |
Ahmad2345 said: AnimeFA78N said: how complilated is Sainte Seiya? I'm only watched the 1989 anime version and hades OVA (But I know Omega and Lost Canvas exist)People try getting into Saint seiya as a whole that thing rival fate and gundam No idea either but I heard countless spin offs exist about SS I only just watched first few episode of lost canvas anime because of a recommendation |
| Everybody has a different opinion on watch order. It's not like the Monogatari series where there is one generally accepted "right answer" even if a few people disagree. Plus even if you just take the easy way out and read the visual novel, it's not that simple. There are 2 versions of the game, the original which comes together in one game and the realta nua version which splits the 3 routes into 3 separate exe files, the realta nua one is generally considered better, but they both have pros and cons. It is probably clear I looked into how to get into the fate franchise, it's not that simple. I don't doubt that there are more complicated series to understand or get into, but the fate franchise is still more than intimidating enough to scare of any casual fan who does his research. I still will get into the series eventually though. |
| How am I supposed to decide what to write, I can't choose an anime to watch to save my life, you think I can pick a signature? |
| Also Fate Grand Order legit feel like canon fanfic if that make sense storywise also everything happening tho I heard from a gaming experience point if view its great |
| I mean this thread is the perfect example as to why people outside the fate fandom end up so confused. The fate fandom can't agree on a single watch order for the series because there just isn't a clear one, it just ends up being personal preference. The problem is the fans then decide their personal preference is the be all end all watch order, and when newbies look and see 10+ different "definitive" watch orders, they just end up confused where to start. And yeah, I've been guilty of this in the past too. At the end of the day though, the actual content in the series isn't *that* hard to follow, and each of the adaptations give you a basic rundown of how the series works, other than a few exceptions like the heavens feel movies that skipped the opening scenes as it was working on a movies limited runtime and that content had been adapted before anyway. Essentially, people should just pick one that sounds interesting and go from there. Figuring out how all the series connect to each other really isnt something newcomers should be worried about before they've even started, but it is something that the fandom loves to focus on, a little too much. |
CrimsonHerring said: It's not like the Monogatari series where there is one generally accepted "right answer" even if a few people disagree. Plus even if you just take the easy way out and read the visual novel, it's not that simple. There are 2 versions of the game, the original which comes together in one game and the realta nua version which splits the 3 routes into 3 separate exe files, the realta nua one is generally considered better, but they both have pros and cons For Monogatari , and even all series , the "Right/Correct Order" is the one the Author expected you to experiment his works. After that , it's the fans/studios who mess up the orders for reason X or Y. For Fate , Réalta Nua was a patched version for PS2 , and you were forced to play Fate>UBW>HF in this order. (Like the original one on PC) It then later got ported to PC , where the 3 .exe were in separated files , but it doesn't change the fact that you are still supposed to play Fate>UBW>HF. For which of the Original or Réalta Nua is better , it's suggestive , but since Réalta Nua got a complete re-check by Type-Moon he should be considered the "Canon/True" one. (And it have Last Episode , so i won't change my mind , and maybe that's what will happen with Tsukihime remake too ?) Plus , if you play it in another language , you need to patch it. The creator of those patch often let the users choose their own parameters (Like if it's the texts of the Original or Réalta , if there is the sex scenes or the Romance censor etc.) so most people use the full Réalta one , or at the very least a mixed version. (There was even a patch that merged the 3 .exe) |
Alexioos95Aug 27, 2021 5:36 AM
"Genius lives only one story above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
| A lot of people say that "Fate fans cannot agree on a watch order." That's completely untrue. Fate fans do agree on a watch order, and a horde of slack-jawed apes who think they're Fate fans disagree. That same idea carries into the series as a whole; anyone who is an actual fan doesn't find it complicated because they understand what's going on, which they know because they're interested in it. The same is true for all expansive franchises in all forms of media - Give a shit, and it's not at all hard. |
O_T_TAug 27, 2021 7:27 AM
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
Raikiri8811 said: [Just start with fate/zero, then watch UBW and then HF. It's not complicated, it's just confusing in the first season of zero. Awful idea, go read the VN. AnimeFA78N said: Most of them are either midcore or rather trash expect for fate zero ofc Also ufotable factor Basically from anime if you watch zero then pick up either ubw or heveans route you are good more or less You're not. Read the VN. Phosphophyllita said: It's not complicated at all. Just watch Fate/Zero and Heaven's Feel I and II, then you can stop. That's even worse than the last two suggestions. Read the VN. ISeeLifePeople said: fate universe so huge but main story started from fate zero then ended with fate heaven feel Completely incorrect at the most basic level. Read the VN. GreenPlatinum said: Fate is a fucking convoluted mess and I think that is self evident with how many people debate viewing order instead of the actual contents of the show. Even at a basic level I'm often confused why they don't regularly kill people on the spot often bringing Shirou especially to the edge of his life and then walking. Magic, it's limits and consequences is poorly articulated. And character motivation is often poorly substantiated making the whole cast seem really unqualified to be putting their lives on the line for the holy grail. Found the adaptation-only secondary. Read the VN. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
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