| I think Ryu doesn't know either. There we 0 hints, all we can do is point finders into the sky and try guessing what is going on. |
| This makes no sense. Why would Bern take it out on Rika and not Hanyuu, Lambda, Takano, Tokyo, or literally anyone else that forced her to that life? And if they are supernatural they dont need unknown parasites and drugs to make her suffer. So basically this is no mystery, just a pointless torture fetish of some witch with too much free time in her hands. |
| The OG post was a bit lengthy and wild so I didn't read it fully, but I can already say no, no. This definitely isn't what is going on. Or atleast, this isn't something that Ryu would come up with. Speaking of which, ya'll giving Ryu way too much credit, or should I say, for his involvement in this. We don't even know how much of the stuff we've seen is actually and specifically scripted by Ryu himself, and the manga is the definitive proof of this. It is being made at the same time as Anime - albeit lagging behind, still at chapter 2 - and the changes of scenes are apparent. There is no reason to make 2 scripts for the same things, nor any reason to let the other be without proof, hence we can deduce that atleast for the question arcs, the script they got from Ryu is only a skeleton at most. What comes to the Hero and Culprit, there is no reason that Rika/Bern/alter ego is the culprit, why would she be torturing herself? And even if that were the case, we come to the Hero of being Satoko, which makes even less sense. There is absolutely no reason for Satoko to be the "Hero". She by herself knows nothing, and can't do anything, she would need help of an entity similar to Bern/Hanyuu, but who of them would be helping Rika? I'm still sticking with my Satoko is the Culprit theory. Even if it seems so obvious that every analyzer would take it as a red herring, that by itself could just as well be a red herring (altho I don't really believe there is any red herrings going on). Rika will find out about this, and she will be presented a choice. To kill herself - to escape this loop and die or kill her best friend - to escape this loop and live. |
         Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
Hulio said: I'm still sticking with my Satoko is the Culprit theory. Even if it seems so obvious that every analyzer would take it as a red herring, that by itself could just as well be a red herring (altho I don't really believe there is any red herrings going on). Rika will find out about this, and she will be presented a choice. To kill herself - to escape this loop and die or kill her best friend - to escape this loop and live. If this is the "logic error" that was mentioned in Umineko, I am trying to figure out how killing Satoko fixes that. Matsuri didnt even deal with Satoko's issues so,"Satoko cant be saved from Teppei" doesnt make sense. I dont understand why she can even be the culprit. She is sus, sure. But what is the heart? Granted, I feel like there is none in this whole thing. |
Bernkasten said: jTiKey said: I think Ryu doesn't know either. There we 0 hints, all we can do is point finders into the sky and try guessing what is going on. You are not giving Ryukishi enough credit. He is a genius who created two of the best Visual Novels of all time. There is obviously a lot of foreshadowing in Gou. Nothing after umineko EP 5 was great. |
jTiKey said: Bernkasten said: You are not giving Ryukishi enough credit. He is a genius who created two of the best Visual Novels of all time. There is obviously a lot of foreshadowing in Gou. Nothing after umineko EP 5 was great. Literally the best part of the whole thing comes just after EP5, and EP5 is just as ingenious as it was because of the latter EPs' explanations, at that. Only someone who didn't understand the story would say such a thing and yet call EP5 well-written, nothing in Umineko actually works standalone and all EPs are important to one another. Then again, that's if you read the VN, the manga is filled with plot-holes and retcons since EP1. |
DanpmssJan 20, 2021 11:26 PM
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Danpmss said: Spoiler talk The best part is when you don't know the answer, because it has more holes than swish cheese. Maybe he knows how to write characters, but his world building is awful. |
VirtueHunterJan 21, 2021 7:11 AM
| the real culprit is satoshi, wait for it |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
jTiKey said: Danpmss said: Spoiler talk The best part is when you don't know the answer, because it has more holes than swish cheese. Maybe he knows how to write characters, but his world building is awful. Oh really? Go on and tell me about these "holes" of yours. You can be lengthy, I'll cover all of the ground. |
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sarazanmai said: jTiKey said: Maybe he knows how to write characters, but his world building is awful. Have you seen Gou? Shounen-y motivational speeches and half-assed insights on suicide don't spell good character writing. He knows how to start a good mystery, that's all. Gou is a sequel, these themes are properly portrayed in a vastly more in-depth light with sometimes 4-hours worth of lengthy monologues in the visual novels, which Gou is dependent of as proper character build that should be in here (if it was a remake) comes from there and therefore isn't present. Higurashi's VN has 150+ hours of RAW TEXT and most of those are dedicated to characterization. This anime works as a sequel, but not as a standalone product, as far as we went here (not that it was ever intended to be such, it just "can be watched by both old and new fans", sure thing, but I doubt new fans will like this as much). |
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Danpmss said: jTiKey said: The best part is when you don't know the answer, because it has more holes than swish cheese. Maybe he knows how to write characters, but his world building is awful. Oh really? Go on and tell me about these "holes" of yours. You can be lengthy, I'll cover all of the ground. The whole answer of some people not being real only when the plot wants it, but not existing other time? Most of the vague answers of the crimes in the manga? |
sarazanmai said: jTiKey said: Maybe he knows how to write characters, but his world building is awful. Have you seen Gou? Shounen-y motivational speeches and half-assed insights on suicide don't spell good character writing. He knows how to start a good mystery, that's all. Yeah, Gou is trash. Though the characters in Umineko were nice, some like Lambda, Bern, Dlanoir, Erika, etc. are my favs till now. |
jTiKey said: Danpmss said: Oh really? Go on and tell me about these "holes" of yours. You can be lengthy, I'll cover all of the ground. The whole answer of some people not being real only when the plot wants it, but not existing other time? Most of the vague answers of the crimes in the manga? Hm, the plot makes it fair game through heavy metafiction with a shit ton of foreshadowing ever since the very first EP, and is very methodically consistent with it without any place for unfairness that isn't justified by the narrative and conceptual delivery from the start. That is, again, in the VN, the unreliable narrative exposition is nearly non-existent in the manga and anime adaptations, and that screws most of the original plot up. Have you read the VN or just the manga? Also, the vagueness in the answers is on purpose, but they do have an equally solid resolution each as long as you figure them out using of the several clues given throughout the story, it's a puzzle to be solved by an entire community through mass-theorizing after all, the information is all there, it's just not spoonfed to you (compare to Nijigahara Holograph, it requires rereads and proper analyzing to really understand it fully). The manga attempts to be a more explicit answer book in that regard, but it doesn't work as well standalone since the adaptation is kind of iffy up to EP5-8 (Chiru), and even then it has some leaps in logic and retcons to justify itself because of the lack of proper execution with the unreliable narration. At least, it doesn't work as well as it should, but if you treat it as an answer book to the VN, that's another thing entirely (even then, it kinda even retconned Ange's timeline of events, though for the manga's structure, it was more fitting that way, and the extra goods made it worth it). Umineko's manga/anime adaptations as standalones are flawed, the only episodes that were as well adapted from the VN are 7 and 8 (with some awesome adaptation expansions here and there), but even 5 and 6 fail to deliver on their original clever usage of metafictional elements. I'm assuming you didn't read the VN, because you would know that for a fact. |
DanpmssJan 24, 2021 6:00 AM
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