| A couples of lessons learned from experience. I feel like I need to talk about this because I used to be a 24/7 365 days a year recluse during school like most of MAL, I believe, and residues of that time remained until about 2 years of Uni life. Despite my proclivities, I was still a very good communicator. I had no social anxiety, or at least I thought I didn't, and I had absolutely no qualms presenting in front of an audience. All in all, I thought I was that 'confident introvert' oft romanticized in media, and for the most part I was. The problem, however, is that confidence is not your ability to communicate when you have to but when you should. In simple words, do you even take initiative? If you call yourself an introvert, it's extremely likely that you SUCK at taking initiative. It doesn't matter how well you can communicate, you'd nonetheless suck at taking initiative. Because the idea of being an introvert is that social interaction tires you out and the long-term consequence of that is avoidance. Your brain will find very very intricate ways of avoiding social interaction, and what we call 'being bad at initiative' is one of those ways. Another interesting behavioral pattern that ferments in the meanwhile is self-pity disguised as superiority complex. I have no need to interact with these mere mortals, I live in a world of my own, far complex and marvelous than anything they could even imagine. Well, Sherlock, it's real life. Nobody's writing about your Shakespearean monologues which I believe you are EPIC as hell but again, they.don't.fucking.matter. Try to see if you can talk just as well, and I mean physically talk to people. You'll fail. Oh, so you don't want to do any kind of business or become an entrepreneur but instead you are the next Linus Torvalds in making, the secluded genius researcher/inventor/scientist and therefore really doesn't need to interact with anyone? Well, uh if you have this particular problem then I believe only experience itself could teach you. And it'll teach you well, both that you aren't the next genius and also that you can't escape the hell that is other people (trust me, they aren't that bad; mostly, they have even less of an idea than you do but you feel clueless in front of them because you aren't used to thinking out loud and you feel like your brain goes blank when you talk but you'll get used to it so don't worry). It's not simply because of a failed interview (failed, because I confessed I was an introvert and they caught on that) that I was talking about in @Yarub 's thread. That instance was just one of the many opportunity costs that I've incurred over my years at University. I missed out on a ton of guidance I could've received from my seniors had I taken more initiative and approached them. I missed out on tons of projects or jobs I could've added to my portfolio because my networking was absolute fucking shit and I knew no one and no one knew me. I missed out on dozens of technologies I could've learned in my free time if I was surrounded by more experienced people who'd tell me exactly what the fuck was going on in the world. And lastly, I missed out on the satisfaction of knowing what I was doing if only I had known to do it sooner i.e learned it from others instead of harboring lone wolf fantasies. In short, if you are an introvert, stop listening to that nonsense about the power of introverts or whatever the fuck. You aren't deep, reflective, or anything, well I mean you could be. But the point is, it doesn't matter if you solved an ages old problem or produced the next masterpiece of literature or music if it only exists in your fucking head or your room with no outlet. For the sake of your own intelligence and success, I'm sorry you'll have to deny yourself the simple pleasure of being who you are and suck it up like a born paraplegic: Rise above your handicaps and don't fall for the error of identifying with them. |
heg said: youre missing the communication technology part like the internet that gives exposure to those genius introverts you hate i remember that news about a 4chan anonymous user that solved a decades long math problem or puzzle for example that although his real identity is not given it shows that works of introverts like him is recognize by other geniuses or experts that are on the internet too You have shit reading skills. Try again. And don't cite outliers in my thread. I'm here to dispel the illusion that hey I could be an outlier and you're repeating the same mistake. Get real, or stay behind. |
| This is painting the whole picture in black and white and it's ignoring the rest of the spectrum of personalities. You're calling out people that reeks of arrogance as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't matter if they are introverted or extroverted, man. |
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heg said: Thanakos said: You have shit reading skills. Try again. And don't cite outliers in my thread. I'm here to dispel the illusion that hey I could be an outlier and you're repeating the same mistake. Get real, or stay behind. sure the 4chan example is an outlier but the fact remains that the internet gives exposure too just like in real life It gives exposure when you are that 4 standard deviation far out outlier. If you are that far out, shit the world is yours. What the fuck are you even doing on MAL unless you're born in Somalia or something like that? Talk in context, heg. You're losing the damn plot. Konradikon said: This is painting the whole picture in black and white and it's ignoring the rest of the spectrum of personalities. You're calling out people that reeks of arrogance as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't matter if they are introverted or extroverted, man. I'm talking to introverts. You don't have to exactly fit the pattern, and if the 'calling out' part doesn't fit you, feel free to ignore it. But the part about opportunity costs is going to apply as long as you are an introvert who hasn't learned to be proactive in social situations. |
heg said: Thanakos said: It gives exposure when you are that 4 standard deviation far out outlier. If you are that far out, shit the world is yours. What the fuck are you even doing on MAL unless you're born in Somalia or something like that? Talk in context, heg. You're losing the damn plot. im not even speaking about me or defending my case here just giving observation and since i remember you are computer science person too then you know programming in the internet like doing and helping projects on GitHub can give you exposure and those necessary nepotism (social connections) you are implying in the first post Yes, yes, I know. But how do you learn about github? You don't magically wake up one day as a CompSci freshman and think ''Hey I think there could be a massive open source community that contributes to each other's work and works like this and this''. If I hadn't heard about github from someone else, I wouldn't know it.. until of course my Uni told me. And that would be incredibly inefficient, because the guy who's known github for 2 years will be 2 fucking years ahead of me. Bottomline is: Even in CompSci, internet alone isn't going to save you. My senior, for example, is actually a lone wolf and quite successful at that. But he hasn't won a single kaggle competition because, guess what, you can't do it alone. He got so far as ranking 82nd out of 4000 in a competition and he worked his ass off on that. Imagine, an extremely smart dude sacrificing almost everything and working his ass off for 3 months during Uni days and still not winning. Why is that? Did the internet fail him? Well, partly yes. Because the guys who were at the top of the competition weren't alone; they had teams working on the project, manpower to pre-process the data or augment it or synthesize it or whatever. Much more was possible. But this guy alone could only go so far. There are very very few venues, growing exponentially smaller every day, where you can excel at the highest standards alone. If you just want to get by, fine you can probably do it alone. But even then if you aren't comfortable with socializing, you're going to be extremely pissed most of the time. Takeaway: be socially pro-active. PS Networking is not encouraging nepotism. It's about... being seen, man. Like, it's the same reason why so many boys fail to acquire a girlfriend: they just fail to approach girls. Girls aren't gonna have an epiphany that there's this guy in my school who's very cool deep down and I should go approach him, no you'll have to take the first step like it or not. |
ThanakosSep 13, 2019 11:22 AM
| I learned since a young age that, despite not feeling the same needs others have for it (what some call being introverted), social interaction is something necessary and I should learn how to properly do it. Unfortunately or fortunately, we live in a world where networking is one of the most important aspects of someone's professional life. Since acknowledging that soon, I worked towards taking initiative and being pleasant and well-articulate enough when approaching people. Networking has given me a lot of opportunities, specially during my grad course. So, yeah, I get where you're coming from, even if I do think it's unnecessary to say introverts are, if not an outlier, destined to failure. No matter how good one is at building networks and socializing, there are some sectors in society in which talent and intelligence is more important than who you know or how well you articulate yourself. Not everyone is special and that's true, but if one is indeed specially talented, it won't matter much in the long run how introverted they are. |
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SpamuraiSensei said: Hmm.. it's difficult to separate shyness from being truly introverted. And well.. it's possible to be both too. People good at sales pick up on social queues many don't know even exist. Body language, asking the right questions, and filtering through responses is a skill. You won't develop those skills by being an introvert. It's not something you can read in a book. You don't need to play the social mastermind game. Just taking initiative at the right time, and approaching people in a way that doesn't completely weird them out is enough. The point is to let them know you exist, that you have such and such skill-set, and you could be useful. No bigger games are needed, as far as professional success in non-business fields is concerned. |
Thanakos said: SpamuraiSensei said: Hmm.. it's difficult to separate shyness from being truly introverted. And well.. it's possible to be both too. People good at sales pick up on social queues many don't know even exist. Body language, asking the right questions, and filtering through responses is a skill. You won't develop those skills by being an introvert. It's not something you can read in a book. You don't need to play the social mastermind game. Just taking initiative at the right time, and approaching people in a way that doesn't completely weird them out is enough. The point is to let them know you exist, that you have such and such skill-set, and you could be useful. No bigger games are needed, as far as professional success in non-business fields is concerned. Perhaps you were more of a basement dweller than an introvert. Introverts don't like pointless small talk. They'd rather do other shit. |
| Being one of the few extroverts on MAL. I find myself taking the initiative online and real life a lot. Online, I'm also the one who has to make all the jokes, come up with most of the topics. I feel like a stand up comedian sometimes :P |
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| You are mixing introversion and arrogance all in the same blender. They are just separated personality traits. Introversion more often than not does not come from a position of arrogance, but a position of lack of self-confidence. Not taking the initiative is not just a matter of "sucking" at it, it's a matter of overthinking, being scared or intimidated or feeling that your opinion is not interesting for the rest to hear, which can be due to a variety of reasons: you think that you can't properly explain your point, you believe that what you are going to say is really not relevant enough for the conversation, you feel that others will say that eventually anyway or you don't have confidence in your expressive skills and are afraid of not finding the right words, tone or of your body language. Your thread is fine to convince yourself, but to many other introverts it may actually sound condescending, cold-hearted and judgemental. I am not judging you for that, but I certainly do not have these sorts of behaviors or mental processes with my introversion and I don't think it's very enlightening to treat this character trait which can adopt many forms as a single set. Finally, your conclusion is... ugh, a bit edgy to my tastes. I am against romanticising introversion. It has affected me negatively and that's for sure. But it's my personality and I have learned to live with it, and I'm fine right now. Introversion is not cool, but it's not the devil either. It's simply a personality trait that you can modulate with experience -and help if required- in the way you need to be happy with your life. |
| D-d-don't tell me what to do! I'd rather not be retarded and introverted at all lol. This whole thing just sounds like a philosophical enlightenment brain blast a teenager thought up while they were trying to fall asleep in bed. |
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| In my honest opinion, I can say I got away from that cycle of failure that you mentioned. I was never to take the initiative, and still mostly don't but one thing saved me from being my own murderer; people talked to me. I didn't block all social contact—I simply ignored it when possible, and went along with it when it was necessary. I'd say the only thing I seriously missed, rather than opportunities, are just quality time with friends. You see, the reason why I am an anomaly in this post of yours, is really simple. I stood out, like a fucking tumor. You'd be amazed on how few people are given the attention I had when I was a highschooler because I was "intelligent" even though I really wasn't. That's how I got off and my university life is pretty good with a dozen or so people I hang out with. Thanks for mentioning me btw. |
| Unsure if I'd rather be a thing than another. Because that would radically change my life, and especially my judgments... Also, what does mean being retarded? Because I feel it might not be so to-be-dreaded a fatality, in some cases? Introverted as I am, I still feel confident and able to take initiative when needed, because life is a game and who the fuck will play it for me? |
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| who's to say your wish isn't already true, topic creator? |
| I'm pretty introverted and it has worked out for me. I notice it helps to befriend other introverts that understand the problems you may have. As for how to do it? School projects, work and hobbies tend to force you to talk to others in your group, so I think that's the easiest way to befriend someone without having to take much initiative. |
| i read your whole post. You just freaking described my life. I hate all that bullshit on internet which glorifies introversion too. introversion is a curse, the sooner one realizes that and starts to act for their own good the better. its a curse that might never get cast off but one CAN surely make this curse's effectiveness lesser to a great degree. One can search on internet on how to get over introversion but from my personal experience, only life will teach you. So go out and talk to PEOPLE. |
| Well, I kinda agree with your comment, yet not the entirety (for as far as I've known, introverts aren't necessarily that egocentric). But wtf do u mean by "retarded"? Like you sure you'd rather be "retarded"? Literally "retarded" means socially inept and having less capability to properly develop social skills. On top of that, you are even inefficient in ameliorating physically or mentally. Well, if you ask me, being retarded is much, much worse. My advice is - don't be a retard. |
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SpamuraiSensei said: Perhaps you were more of a basement dweller than an introvert. Introverts don't like pointless small talk. They'd rather do other shit. Bruh what. How did you even come to the conclusion? Introverts may not like small talk, I sure don't, but it's a necessity. heg said: @Thanakos i do not want to quote what you wrote since im not that articulate like you but you can join /r/programming or even /r/learnprogramming to learn Git for places like GitHub or GitLab for example and heck even youtube have education videos for it too, GitHub has an official desktop app too that you can learn more easily than learning commandlines of Git and thats weird it seems you are implying its better to master things in school when it only provides the basics and theories most of the time while practical applications are done in the real world like the internet there are also a lot of talks on hacker news and reddit about being good in school programming quiizzes and competitions does not mean you will become a good programmer in the real world Tough tests flunk good programmer job candidates Quizzes and brain-teasers are useful in evaluating potential software development hires, but don't take them too far https://www.infoworld.com/article/2621515/tough-tests-flunk-good-programmer-job-candidates.html Why we don't hire programmers based on puzzles, API quizzes, math riddles, or other parlor tricks https://signalvnoise.com/posts/3071-why-we-dont-hire-programmers-based-on-puzzles-api-quizzes-math-riddles-or-other-parlor-tricks in other related note there is a skills gap going on too, a lot of the employers do not like the education curriculum taught in colleges/universities and say a lot of young graduates are unemployable because of it so better rack up more of those internships or volunteer work to be qualified or to fill up those resume I already know Git and GitHub. It's funny you mention skills that aren't covered in school, because those were my main motivation for making this thread. You see, if they'll teach you about it in school then all you have to do is attend classes. But almost everything actually worth it practically you'll have to learn on your own. And guess what, you can only learn it if it's not an 'unknown unknown' for you. If I'd never known that some XYZ framework exists for app development, how could I ever learn it? just by randomly googling "app development frameworks"? But that would assume I even know that there could be frameworks for app developments, and what if I don't?? Gentleman, I'm already aware of everything you're talking about. I'm just telling you that in practice things don't play out like you think they do. I've never put much stock in what they teach us in Uni because this is absolutely basic stuff. If you want to create your market value, you'll have to learn other technologies, take on projects or contribute to someone else's projects, and the fastest way of doing these things is... well, take a guess, NOT by randomly searching on google about XYZ technology but hearing about it from someone more experienced. Learning Data Science on my own would've been incredibly inefficient. Googling 'best online data science courses' would only have led me down a rabbit hole which would've confused me even further. But a friend told me that such and such courses are great and I could take them in this order to optimize my learning, and I was able to get a good foothold in just 3 months. So again, you're pulling things out of your ass and I'm speaking from experience. And one of the things I've learned from experience is to never underestimate experience. jal90 said: You are mixing introversion and arrogance all in the same blender. They are just separated personality traits. Introversion more often than not does not come from a position of arrogance, but a position of lack of self-confidence. Not taking the initiative is not just a matter of "sucking" at it, it's a matter of overthinking, being scared or intimidated or feeling that your opinion is not interesting for the rest to hear, which can be due to a variety of reasons: you think that you can't properly explain your point, you believe that what you are going to say is really not relevant enough for the conversation, you feel that others will say that eventually anyway or you don't have confidence in your expressive skills and are afraid of not finding the right words, tone or of your body language. Your thread is fine to convince yourself, but to many other introverts it may actually sound condescending, cold-hearted and judgemental. I am not judging you for that, but I certainly do not have these sorts of behaviors or mental processes with my introversion and I don't think it's very enlightening to treat this character trait which can adopt many forms as a single set. Finally, your conclusion is... ugh, a bit edgy to my tastes. I am against romanticising introversion. It has affected me negatively and that's for sure. But it's my personality and I have learned to live with it, and I'm fine right now. Introversion is not cool, but it's not the devil either. It's simply a personality trait that you can modulate with experience -and help if required- in the way you need to be happy with your life. Different ways of sucking at the same thing still count as sucking at that thing. For me, it could be arrogance, for you lack of self-confidence. But the result is the same. This thread is not what I think introverts are, but what I think they should do. And if you fit the intermediate results (bad initiative, bad social skills, low self-esteem, or any other consequence of being X blend of introvert) then your job is to evaluate my experience in light of your own, and see if you aren't being disadvantaged the same way (even if your thought process says orange and mine apple). As far as being happy with life is concerned, that's a separate topic. If a certain personality trait is a constant pain the ass for me, I feel no compulsion to identify with it or keep it. Can I modulate it? Good. But if I'm still seeing more advantage in not having this trait than merely modulating it, then I'm always going to believe that it'd been better if I was never this way. I see no advantages to being an introvert. I used to think there were great advantages in it, such as being reflective, thoughtful, more composed, etc, but I've realized that extroverts can do that with half the hassle. Yarub said: In my honest opinion, I can say I got away from that cycle of failure that you mentioned. I was never to take the initiative, and still mostly don't but one thing saved me from being my own murderer; people talked to me. I didn't block all social contact—I simply ignored it when possible, and went along with it when it was necessary. I'd say the only thing I seriously missed, rather than opportunities, are just quality time with friends. You see, the reason why I am an anomaly in this post of yours, is really simple. I stood out, like a fucking tumor. You'd be amazed on how few people are given the attention I had when I was a highschooler because I was "intelligent" even though I really wasn't. That's how I got off and my university life is pretty good with a dozen or so people I hang out with. Thanks for mentioning me btw. I get you, I get approached by my fellows too. But professors, seniors, guys who are too busy with doing real work that they don't have time for eccentric rarities? No. You're in Med School and as far as I know, you don't really need to do a ton of networking there. You learn pretty much all the necessary skills in school or afterward during your training. There's no compulsion of keeping up with a quickly advancing field like it is here. CS evolves; what I learn now may go outdated a few years later and tech blogs on the internet could be severely misleading. I can only rely on people who are engaged with the industry one way or another or I'll be going down a completely different direction. Like, looking at tech blogs I may start learning RUST but wait, what.. no company in my vicinity even knows wtf is that. It adds nothing to my job value. Or I could learn some other fancy technology which looks really promising (all marketing tricks btw) but again the baseline reality will say hi from all the wrong places. Preachee said: Well, I kinda agree with your comment, yet not the entirety (for as far as I've known, introverts aren't necessarily that egocentric). But wtf do u mean by "retarded"? Like you sure you'd rather be "retarded"? Literally "retarded" means socially inept and having less capability to properly develop social skills. On top of that, you are even inefficient in ameliorating physically or mentally. Well, if you ask me, being retarded is much, much worse. My advice is - don't be a retard. Same old idea as losing your home in a disaster when you had a home versus when you were already homeless. Rather than being introverted and treated as a retard (due to lack of opportunities and recognition), you'd rather really just be retarded. It's like I made this excellent omelette but no one got to eat it but then another guy made a sub-par omelette, had everyone else eat it and got the credit for at least making an omelette. You see this a lot in professional life where the loud and dumb guy gets ahead no problem but the quiet smart guy is nonexistent. |
Thanakos said: Preachee said: Well, I kinda agree with your comment, yet not the entirety (for as far as I've known, introverts aren't necessarily that egocentric). But wtf do u mean by "retarded"? Like you sure you'd rather be "retarded"? Literally "retarded" means socially inept and having less capability to properly develop social skills. On top of that, you are even inefficient in ameliorating physically or mentally. Well, if you ask me, being retarded is much, much worse. My advice is - don't be a retard. Same old idea as losing your home in a disaster when you had a home versus when you were already homeless. Rather than being introverted and treated as a retard (due to lack of opportunities and recognition), you'd rather really just be retarded. It's like I made this excellent omelette but no one got to eat it but then another guy made a sub-par omelette, had everyone else eat it and got the credit for at least making an omelette. You see this a lot in professional life where the loud and dumb guy gets ahead no problem but the quiet smart guy is nonexistent. Being introverted can change, factually saying, whereas being retarded is a literal disability. Retarded still and all is rather irremediable, while being introverted can be changed by one's will. BUT, now that your points are clear, I will say I agree. I think your allegory isn't really perfect, for I don't believe that the generalization of retards can ever earn credits from being so frolicsome is very much valid. But I do agree that having meager meaningfulness is far significant than possessing the merits but let it slip away for nothing. And even, if your life isn't meaningful and devoted whatsoever, then yes I'd rather be retarded. I understand that you'd rather be dumb than to be smart but does so little. Fair point. Though let's rewind a bit here. Do you really think introverts are supercilious as to what you attested? I need better proportionality. |
PreacheeSep 14, 2019 2:57 AM
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Thanakos said: Konradikon said: This is painting the whole picture in black and white and it's ignoring the rest of the spectrum of personalities. You're calling out people that reeks of arrogance as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't matter if they are introverted or extroverted, man. I'm talking to introverts. You don't have to exactly fit the pattern, and if the 'calling out' part doesn't fit you, feel free to ignore it. But the part about opportunity costs is going to apply as long as you are an introvert who hasn't learned to be proactive in social situations. There's really a projection here coming from you and clearly tells just how much you could have done more for yourself and the sheer regret from it if you weren't a recluse like you said you were, and now you're putting those words to "introverts" in a rather accusing tone. I get it, we all suffer from inaction. Doesn't mean we'll point fingers now when it's some fuck-up we inflicted to ourselves and should bear full responsibility to set that right. I've also been there myself in a lot of occasions and I know just how uneasy that shit are. You're telling them what they should do and that's not the best way to put it. Truly, those people with bad initiative, bad social skills, and low esteem you mentioned needs help. Some tough love is risky to do when they're on their shittest state, because chances are it can backfire. Man, your post would've make sense if you're actually referring to people who're gullible enough to believe those romanticizations to become special snowflakes that they no longer make any room for self-improvement and be a better version of themselves. Introversion/extroversion are just another part of the spectrum of personalities and are simply responses to external stimuli in social interaction. Just makes you think extroverts got some huge ass battery capacity that they last much longer on these "external stimulation" before getting their balls drained out. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) |
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Preachee said: Though let's rewind a bit here. Do you really think introverts are supercilious as to what you attested? I need better proportionality. No. I certainly was, or still am. But many people will think of your introversion that way even if you aren't like that so be warned. Konradikon said: There's really a projection here coming from you and clearly tells just how much you could have done more for yourself and the sheer regret from it if you weren't a recluse like you said you were, and now you're putting those words to "introverts" in a rather accusing tone. I get it, we all suffer from inaction. Doesn't mean we'll point fingers now when it's some fuck-up we inflicted to ourselves and should bear full responsibility to set that right. I've also been there myself in a lot of occasions and I know just how uneasy that shit are. You're telling them what they should do and that's not the best way to put it. Truly, those people with bad initiative, bad social skills, and low esteem you mentioned needs help. Some tough love is risky to do when they're on their shittest state, because chances are it can backfire. Man, your post would've make sense if you're actually referring to people who're gullible enough to believe those romanticizations to become special snowflakes that they no longer make any room for self-improvement and be a better version of themselves. I'm not here to hold someone's hand. My post is for any introvert who isn't completely convinced at this point that introversion is a disadvantage. What they do to combat it is a decision they better take for themselves. Introversion/extroversion are just another part of the spectrum of personalities and are simply responses to external stimuli in social interaction. Just makes you think extroverts got some huge ass battery capacity that they last much longer on these "external stimulation" before getting their balls drained out. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) >Responses to external stimuli is just french for saying introverts get exhausted very quickly in social situations. |
| I'd be retarded and an introvert. I think I am anyway. Also, this introvert thinks the same thing about extroverts. Their excessive and overbearing confidence comes across as very condescending and I've always thought they think they're better than everyone. |
--- + --- "Random quotes in signatures are like friends. Everyone seems to have them, except me." Sun Tzu, probably  |
| "Nobody's writing about your Shakespearean monologues" I'll have you know good sir I quite enjoy my inner monologues, the reason they stay as inner monologues is because if anyone said the amount of philosophical shit going through my brain at a single moment they wouldn't be able to stop. "if you are an introvert, stop listening to that nonsense about the power of introverts or whatever the fuck." This honestly all depends on the fact that you aren't living up to your full potential. You can be a introvert and still weigh how useful initiative would be at that time. In my honest opinion the ability to withhold initiative depending on how important whatever is happening is called being smart. You don't need to jump into every social interaction yourself if you personally don't enjoy it, makes no sense. Now coming on to stuff where initiative actually does matter, who said introverts can't have initiative when it matters? Someone getting attacked in public? A man running around in the streets after stabbing someone in a terrorist attack? You can sure as hell bet I would be the first to literally end that person (of course you need confidence that you'll back off if it gets really dangerous but if the person is a noodle armed kid like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNe_Sf8yBEU i'd wager on it.) Job promotion? Interview? Literally anything professional activity that could potentially benefit me greatly? You can sure as hell bet I would do everything in my power no matter what I had to do. To be completely honest after reading your third paragraph it seems like you personally were naive and failed because of that and decided to blame that on being a introvert, which makes 0 fucking sense lmao. Use your free time to research shit yourself dude, stuff isn't hard and literally everything is designed for a human to use it, you don't need to be spoon fed by someone constantly, if you lacked the opportunity of having a tough childhood to learn this basic shit blame your parents for coddling you, not being a introvert. Introvert means you rather stay out of small talk and meaningless conversations if it's not needed, it means you rather go on a trip by yourself instead of a group, it means you enjoy being with yourself. Nothing to do with lack of experience like you seem to say, that's a problem with yourself. You can be a introvert and gain immense experience and guidance by paying attention online and manning up and making sure shit gets done by talking to your lecturers, it's not hard. |
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Thanakos said: *yoink* From all the point you've put out so far and how it's becoming apparent now, the actual disadvantage here isn't introversion itself but the lack of self-confidence. You're still confusing two different things. We can agree some folks need to get out of their shell, but you're really going for the wrong people here, man. It's also a fucking unfair comparison for the mentally retarded who already has an inherent disadvantage to function normally. |
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| Honestly? I'm starting to think this introvert-extrovert thing isn't as credible as people make it out to be. It feels like a scapegoat for people who want to excuse their lifestyles. You're not lonely because you're an introvert, you're lonely because going out and making friends is too much effort for you (or at least you convince yourself that it must be too much effort before any attempts). I used to believe that I was an introvert back in high school, I thought I didn't really do anything with people outside of school because I was just an introvert and that's how I was wired from the get-go, but in my senior year I realized I was just bullshitting myself and decided to go out more and make an effort to meet people. Ever since then, my life has been going uphill and I don't question whether I should talk to someone or take the initiative in anything, yeah sometimes I like just chilling at home, but hanging out with friends and being with my fiancé just puts my mind to ease, knowing I'm not gonna be an insane hermit anytime soon. So yeah, I'm really not sure if this introvert and extrovert concept is as set in stone as we may initially think, and I think people can overcome their boundaries (mental disorders of varying magnitudes excluded) and make the effort gradually to become more confident and assertive in their lives. Also, get in shape, it's not bro science, being healthy and being in good shape can boost your confidence by a metric shit ton. You don't have to be the second coming of Clarence Kennedy or Larry Wheels, just maintaining a routine and keeping fit is a good gateway to a healthy mind too. Of course it won't magically solve all your problems, but it's a nice little nudge towards self-improvement I think. God save anyone who reads this mess but that's my two cents. |
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Thanakos said: Preachee said: Though let's rewind a bit here. Do you really think introverts are supercilious as to what you attested? I need better proportionality. No. I certainly was, or still am. But many people will think of your introversion that way even if you aren't like that so be warned. This isn't fair of me because I'm not quite an introvert myself, so I clearly have not experienced that much social anxiety to speak for anyone. But, I do know some introverted friends and to me at least, they don't seem so arrogant. Again, it's evident that I have no idea what their true thoughts are, and thus brings me to my next claim, how do you know so well if you aren't even an introvert? Sure there might be people think of them that way, but you can't generalize introverts as such, I still believe. Sorry but I'm fully against psychological generalization. |
| . . . |
Well I did and honestly, it was a good post and not a mess at all. I do, however, consider myself an introvert but that doesn't mean I'm someone who can just sit indoors in front of the pc day after day, I get tired after one day of that tbh. I do need my rest days when I don't go out and see friends or do anything special, just some silent alone me-time, and that's simply because my job in customer service requires me to be social and put myself out there to deal with dozens of people daily. After I get my one day rest though, I crave some social contact and interactions again. I've just always enjoyed alone-time and activities that don't require other people, like reading, video games, drawing/writing etc. But that doesn't mean I'm some lonely hermit that can enjoy that for extended periods of time. And I believe like you said, that alot of people just "accept" that they're introverts because that's all they know after failing at friendships or relationships. And what you said about staying at least somewhat in shape and physically healthy is very true, it affects mental health and vice versa. |
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Cneq said: In my honest opinion the ability to withhold initiative depending on how important whatever is happening is called being smart. You don't need to jump into every social interaction yourself if you personally don't enjoy it, makes no sense. As if extroverts aren't capable of that. Better to be too eager and learn to moderate it than to learn how to make an attempt from scratch, or getting metaphorical jitters every time you do have to take a step forward. Cneq said: Someone getting attacked in public? A man running around in the streets after stabbing someone in a terrorist attack? You can sure as hell bet I would be the first to literally end that person (of course you need confidence that you'll back off if it gets really dangerous but if the person is a noodle armed kid like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNe_Sf8yBEU i'd wager on it.) Job promotion? Interview? Literally anything professional activity that could potentially benefit me greatly? You can sure as hell bet I would do everything in my power no matter what I had to do. Would you partake in societies? Get in touch with industry leads and take them out for a dinner or lunch every once in a while? Will you take charge of the events of your University and become a part of the 'elite' that is in touch with professors, organizers, and whatnot? If you say you are an introvert and your answer was yes to all of these, then you're a lying sack of shit. You haven't done any of these, or you aren't an introvert. Or you have done one or two of these and half-assed these and still hate that you have to put yourself up to this regularly. Gentleman, either your ambition is so low that a minimal level of initiative suffices or you have simply never been in a challenging enough position. Either way, if you're happy with it, who the fuck am I to rebuke you. Have fun. And btw, I haven't "failed" at anything. In fact, you could call me quite successful. But I can clearly see how much more success I could've acquired if I weren't an introvert. Being an introvert doesn't mean you avoid unncessary small talk, even extroverts do that. It means you avoid small talk because 1) you suck at it 2) you get tired of it 3) you get tired of it because you suck at it and vice-versa. Introversion does mean a lack of experience. Give me an introvert and an extrovert and I'll have them bargain with a shopkeeper. Majority of the times the extrovert will win. Why? Because the introvert enjoyed spending time with himself while the extrovert was out experiencing the world. Konradikon said: Thanakos said: *yoink* From all the point you've put out so far and how it's becoming apparent now, the actual disadvantage here isn't introversion itself but the lack of self-confidence. You're still confusing two different things. We can agree some folks need to get out of their shell, but you're really going for the wrong people here, man. It's also a fucking unfair comparison for the mentally retarded who already has an inherent disadvantage to function normally. In the first paragraph of the OP I've mentioned I've had no troubles with self-confidence. Even among the extroverts, I'm considered one of the more self-confident ones. It should be clear now that my communication skills aren't half bad either. But hey, if you're here to pick a bone or prove yourself the smart one, feel free. I know the impulse to just say something even if it's completely wrong or contradicts the premises and it's a shitty one to get rid of. Erg_Orgy said: Honestly? I'm starting to think this introvert-extrovert thing isn't as credible as people make it out to be. It feels like a scapegoat for people who want to excuse their lifestyles. You're not lonely because you're an introvert, you're lonely because going out and making friends is too much effort for you (or at least you convince yourself that it must be too much effort before any attempts). I used to believe that I was an introvert back in high school, I thought I didn't really do anything with people outside of school because I was just an introvert and that's how I was wired from the get-go, but in my senior year I realized I was just bullshitting myself and decided to go out more and make an effort to meet people. Ever since then, my life has been going uphill and I don't question whether I should talk to someone or take the initiative in anything, yeah sometimes I like just chilling at home, but hanging out with friends and being with my fiancé just puts my mind to ease, knowing I'm not gonna be an insane hermit anytime soon. So yeah, I'm really not sure if this introvert and extrovert concept is as set in stone as we may initially think, and I think people can overcome their boundaries (mental disorders of varying magnitudes excluded) and make the effort gradually to become more confident and assertive in their lives. Also, get in shape, it's not bro science, being healthy and being in good shape can boost your confidence by a metric shit ton. You don't have to be the second coming of Clarence Kennedy or Larry Wheels, just maintaining a routine and keeping fit is a good gateway to a healthy mind too. Of course it won't magically solve all your problems, but it's a nice little nudge towards self-improvement I think. God save anyone who reads this mess but that's my two cents. If you think introvert-extrovert dichotomy isn't real, congratulations you aren't an introvert. Just an extrovert who had a phase. I have more friends than many extroverts I know. I talk more fluently than almost any extrovert I know. I'm considered one of the best presenters of my batch. As for fitness, don't mean to brag but I'm pretty damn muscular (6'1, 90kg, 15% body fat), and I've got a posture straighter than .. idk a straight line under Euclidean geometry (yea boii I do my face pulls every day). I shouldn't have to repeat it at this point but I'll do it one last time: Confidence is not the issue. I know plenty of introverts who are confident as fuck but are held back by the fact that they don't let that confidence have the time of the day because socializing seems like a waste of time to them (it did to me; it does to the mega-nerds at my Uni; and it probably does to every smart introvert out there). Again, I have to stress this: Socializing in itself is not a problem, the attitude that we have towards socializing is. I know I can socialize, I know it's going to be the same old drill, I know it's going to be worthless. Well, after 2 years of repeating that line to myself I've come to the conclusion it wasn't worthless but all the opportunity cost I accrued doesn't go away because of that realization. This is the situation here. I'm not whining about not having friends or a girlfriend. I'm not whining about my social anxiety or inability to speak in front of an audience. I'm whining about the fact that I underestimated the importance of socializing and overestimated my ability to learn on my own and get ahead of everyone. I'm whining about the fact that I did that because of my introverted nature that predisposed me to be dismissive about any and all things social. It led me to hate concerts, parties, and whatnot while others less introverted or more extroverted people were going to all those places and connecting with each other, sharing knowledge and tips I couldn't simply dream up in my solitude and search on google. Sure, I didn't go as far as I could on my own but holy fucking shit if this isn't an inefficient road. Instead of wasting weeks searching about a topic on the internet I could've just gone to a party, met a guy who knew about that stuff and had learned the fastest route to what I wanted there. But it was an unknown unknown to me, and I'm sure plenty of smartasses will come saying, ''Bo-ho you were a naive fool who didn't know the importance of parties'', and fuck them. They are probably the same guys who are posting on MAL right now while there's an important family meeting going on downstairs. Preachee said: Thanakos said: No. I certainly was, or still am. But many people will think of your introversion that way even if you aren't like that so be warned. This isn't fair of me because I'm not quite an introvert myself, so I clearly have not experienced that much social anxiety to speak for anyone. But, I do know some introverted friends and to me at least, they don't seem so arrogant. Again, it's evident that I have no idea what their true thoughts are, and thus brings me to my next claim, how do you know so well if you aren't even an introvert? Sure there might be people think of them that way, but you can't generalize introverts as such, I still believe. Sorry but I'm fully against psychological generalization. I am an introvert. That's the premise of this thread. |
ThanakosSep 15, 2019 8:46 AM
Thanakos said: Preachee said: This isn't fair of me because I'm not quite an introvert myself, so I clearly have not experienced that much social anxiety to speak for anyone. But, I do know some introverted friends and to me at least, they don't seem so arrogant. Again, it's evident that I have no idea what their true thoughts are, and thus brings me to my next claim, how do you know so well if you aren't even an introvert? Sure there might be people think of them that way, but you can't generalize introverts as such, I still believe. Sorry but I'm fully against psychological generalization. I am an introvert. That's the premise of this thread. Oh my bad, I forgot about your claim being "that confident introvert". Well, you probably are more correct for you are one. But don't overthink too much I think. I am not speaking on behalf of anyone but I believe many people often see introverts as simply being introverted rather than high and mighty. It's not that being introverted makes you look so egotistical, but I tend to believe that your attitude is what matters. By that I mean, being introverted possibly doesn't mean you have to glance others with pitifulness or to talk your peers so curtly. I believe you wouldn't do so would you? Having disinterest in activities/preference of the same age or never taking initiative would not probably upset or have that many misunderstand. |
| . . . |
| Network theory might provide some insight into this, but hard to relate since the OP isn't speaking to me (non-introvert) |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Thanakos said: *yoink* No, I just honestly don't get why you're treating introversion like it's some kind of a disease/disability rather than as tendencies of an individual. The reason why in the first place I reckoned from your main post you're actually calling out people that reeks of arrogance and their refusal to make any change for the better whatsoever about themselves, and that you're going for the wrong people here. Attitude, plus outlook, matters here which I agree on Preachee's post. That makes a lot more difference to someone's actions. Introverted or extroverted, it doesn't matter. Nothing's gonna stop them from doing this or that, it's up to them. |
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Thanakos said: "Give me an introvert and an extrovert and I'll have them bargain with a shopkeeper. Majority of the times the extrovert will win. Why? Because the introvert enjoyed spending time with himself while the extrovert was out experiencing the world."Cneq said: In my honest opinion the ability to withhold initiative depending on how important whatever is happening is called being smart. You don't need to jump into every social interaction yourself if you personally don't enjoy it, makes no sense. As if extroverts aren't capable of that. Better to be too eager and learn to moderate it than to learn how to make an attempt from scratch, or getting metaphorical jitters every time you do have to take a step forward. Cneq said: Someone getting attacked in public? A man running around in the streets after stabbing someone in a terrorist attack? You can sure as hell bet I would be the first to literally end that person (of course you need confidence that you'll back off if it gets really dangerous but if the person is a noodle armed kid like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNe_Sf8yBEU i'd wager on it.) Job promotion? Interview? Literally anything professional activity that could potentially benefit me greatly? You can sure as hell bet I would do everything in my power no matter what I had to do. Would you partake in societies? Get in touch with industry leads and take them out for a dinner or lunch every once in a while? Will you take charge of the events of your University and become a part of the 'elite' that is in touch with professors, organizers, and whatnot? If you say you are an introvert and your answer was yes to all of these, then you're a lying sack of shit. You haven't done any of these, or you aren't an introvert. Or you have done one or two of these and half-assed these and still hate that you have to put yourself up to this regularly. Gentleman, either your ambition is so low that a minimal level of initiative suffices or you have simply never been in a challenging enough position. Either way, if you're happy with it, who the fuck am I to rebuke you. Have fun. And btw, I haven't "failed" at anything. In fact, you could call me quite successful. But I can clearly see how much more success I could've acquired if I weren't an introvert. Being an introvert doesn't mean you avoid unncessary small talk, even extroverts do that. It means you avoid small talk because 1) you suck at it 2) you get tired of it 3) you get tired of it because you suck at it and vice-versa. Introversion does mean a lack of experience. Give me an introvert and an extrovert and I'll have them bargain with a shopkeeper. Majority of the times the extrovert will win. Why? Because the introvert enjoyed spending time with himself while the extrovert was out experiencing the world. Konradikon said: From all the point you've put out so far and how it's becoming apparent now, the actual disadvantage here isn't introversion itself but the lack of self-confidence. You're still confusing two different things. We can agree some folks need to get out of their shell, but you're really going for the wrong people here, man. It's also a fucking unfair comparison for the mentally retarded who already has an inherent disadvantage to function normally. In the first paragraph of the OP I've mentioned I've had no troubles with self-confidence. Even among the extroverts, I'm considered one of the more self-confident ones. It should be clear now that my communication skills aren't half bad either. But hey, if you're here to pick a bone or prove yourself the smart one, feel free. I know the impulse to just say something even if it's completely wrong or contradicts the premises and it's a shitty one to get rid of. Erg_Orgy said: Honestly? I'm starting to think this introvert-extrovert thing isn't as credible as people make it out to be. It feels like a scapegoat for people who want to excuse their lifestyles. You're not lonely because you're an introvert, you're lonely because going out and making friends is too much effort for you (or at least you convince yourself that it must be too much effort before any attempts). I used to believe that I was an introvert back in high school, I thought I didn't really do anything with people outside of school because I was just an introvert and that's how I was wired from the get-go, but in my senior year I realized I was just bullshitting myself and decided to go out more and make an effort to meet people. Ever since then, my life has been going uphill and I don't question whether I should talk to someone or take the initiative in anything, yeah sometimes I like just chilling at home, but hanging out with friends and being with my fiancé just puts my mind to ease, knowing I'm not gonna be an insane hermit anytime soon. So yeah, I'm really not sure if this introvert and extrovert concept is as set in stone as we may initially think, and I think people can overcome their boundaries (mental disorders of varying magnitudes excluded) and make the effort gradually to become more confident and assertive in their lives. Also, get in shape, it's not bro science, being healthy and being in good shape can boost your confidence by a metric shit ton. You don't have to be the second coming of Clarence Kennedy or Larry Wheels, just maintaining a routine and keeping fit is a good gateway to a healthy mind too. Of course it won't magically solve all your problems, but it's a nice little nudge towards self-improvement I think. God save anyone who reads this mess but that's my two cents. If you think introvert-extrovert dichotomy isn't real, congratulations you aren't an introvert. Just an extrovert who had a phase. I have more friends than many extroverts I know. I talk more fluently than almost any extrovert I know. I'm considered one of the best presenters of my batch. As for fitness, don't mean to brag but I'm pretty damn muscular (6'1, 90kg, 15% body fat), and I've got a posture straighter than .. idk a straight line under Euclidean geometry (yea boii I do my face pulls every day). I shouldn't have to repeat it at this point but I'll do it one last time: Confidence is not the issue. I know plenty of introverts who are confident as fuck but are held back by the fact that they don't let that confidence have the time of the day because socializing seems like a waste of time to them (it did to me; it does to the mega-nerds at my Uni; and it probably does to every smart introvert out there). Again, I have to stress this: Socializing in itself is not a problem, the attitude that we have towards socializing is. I know I can socialize, I know it's going to be the same old drill, I know it's going to be worthless. Well, after 2 years of repeating that line to myself I've come to the conclusion it wasn't worthless but all the opportunity cost I accrued doesn't go away because of that realization. This is the situation here. I'm not whining about not having friends or a girlfriend. I'm not whining about my social anxiety or inability to speak in front of an audience. I'm whining about the fact that I underestimated the importance of socializing and overestimated my ability to learn on my own and get ahead of everyone. I'm whining about the fact that I did that because of my introverted nature that predisposed me to be dismissive about any and all things social. It led me to hate concerts, parties, and whatnot while others less introverted or more extroverted people were going to all those places and connecting with each other, sharing knowledge and tips I couldn't simply dream up in my solitude and search on google. Sure, I didn't go as far as I could on my own but holy fucking shit if this isn't an inefficient road. Instead of wasting weeks searching about a topic on the internet I could've just gone to a party, met a guy who knew about that stuff and had learned the fastest route to what I wanted there. But it was an unknown unknown to me, and I'm sure plenty of smartasses will come saying, ''Bo-ho you were a naive fool who didn't know the importance of parties'', and fuck them. They are probably the same guys who are posting on MAL right now while there's an important family meeting going on downstairs. Preachee said: This isn't fair of me because I'm not quite an introvert myself, so I clearly have not experienced that much social anxiety to speak for anyone. But, I do know some introverted friends and to me at least, they don't seem so arrogant. Again, it's evident that I have no idea what their true thoughts are, and thus brings me to my next claim, how do you know so well if you aren't even an introvert? Sure there might be people think of them that way, but you can't generalize introverts as such, I still believe. Sorry but I'm fully against psychological generalization. I am an introvert. That's the premise of this thread. But in the end that comes down to personal experience, nothing to do with being a introvert or not. I've personally been to pawnshops most of my childhood since I went to garage sales and in doing that ended being able to barter quite well and know the prices of a ton of different things. To barter you need knowledge of your item and the mindset of the type of place you're trying to resale at, if you have the knowledge the actual talking only needs to go so far since you both know what you're dealing with. And said knowledge can easily be found online and the rest comes from just doing it over and over. Maybe you just picked a bad scenario since I honestly can't see any extrovert bargaining for a better price lmao. Everything comes down to personal experience and the person in question. The mindset you're going for is saying someone who spends time on their own = less experience but you do realize someone being on their own can lead them to experience even more by being proactive and learning things themselves? It could even lead them to learning constantly due to how much time they have to themselves to think. Your foundation of thinking is flawed and depends on how the individual acts, nothing to do with being a introvert. Sure you can argue it may be a factor but the foundation doesn't change. "Would you partake in societies? Get in touch with industry leads and take them out for a dinner or lunch every once in a while? Will you take charge of the events of your University and become a part of the 'elite' that is in touch with professors, organizers, and whatnot?" I'd answer to one out of those three. Unsure about the societies and since my nature isn't to lead I wouldn't try and host events and become a part of the 'elite', that isn't me. However if I managed to get in touch with someone in the industry and there was clear benefit in store for me I would of course take them out to dinner or to get a coffee. This is where your thinking goes wrong, you don't need to enjoy it you just need to do it. This is about success not enjoying your time, if you manage to enjoy your time that's just a bonus. You can easily strike up a conversation with someone if you're at dinner with them, that doesn't mean that you still rather not have dinner with someone and will probably be drained after. Another thing I have a problem with is that you assume all knowledge you get as long as it's at some social event or party would be correct or superior than something you found online. You do realize it's pretty likely someone at a party may give inaccurate information due to the event or their personal lack of knowledge? No idea if you're meaning to make it sound like a all-seeing way of doing things but that is seriously wrong. Whenever I hear tips from people depending on their status that is where it begins, the rest is my on my own researching that tip to see where it would lead and if they were right. And if they were wrong a little bit you find out what they were actually recommending and that's a done deal. "Either your ambition is so low that a minimal level of initiative suffices or you have simply never been in a challenging enough position" So we're on the right page could you give me what you think of a challenging position? and large ambition? I've honestly done more than most people have done in their entire life times for where I stand right now, sure there is a ton of things I still need to do and I'm constantly moving for that. Ambition is really subjective and to me personally is little more than a single broad ass goal that moves me to where I'm going. |
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| sounds like you're just being lazy... |
Preachee said: Thanakos said: I am an introvert. That's the premise of this thread. Oh my bad, I forgot about your claim being "that confident introvert". Well, you probably are more correct for you are one. But don't overthink too much I think. I am not speaking on behalf of anyone but I believe many people often see introverts as simply being introverted rather than high and mighty. It's not that being introverted makes you look so egotistical, but I tend to believe that your attitude is what matters. By that I mean, being introverted possibly doesn't mean you have to glance others with pitifulness or to talk your peers so curtly. I believe you wouldn't do so would you? Having disinterest in activities/preference of the same age or never taking initiative would not probably upset or have that many misunderstand. It kinda depends. For example, if people know you're smart then they will tend to see you as high and mighty if you don't make it a point to engage them. DaConduit said: sounds like you're just being lazy... That's actually a very fair criticism. But you know there's something suspicious about the fact that majority of the lazy people I know are introverts. Cneq said: But in the end that comes down to personal experience, nothing to do with being a introvert or not. I've personally been to pawnshops most of my childhood since I went to garage sales and in doing that ended being able to barter quite well and know the prices of a ton of different things. To barter you need knowledge of your item and the mindset of the type of place you're trying to resale at, if you have the knowledge the actual talking only needs to go so far since you both know what you're dealing with. And said knowledge can easily be found online and the rest comes from just doing it over and over. Maybe you just picked a bad scenario since I honestly can't see any extrovert bargaining for a better price lmao. Everything comes down to personal experience and the person in question. The mindset you're going for is saying someone who spends time on their own = less experience but you do realize someone being on their own can lead them to experience even more by being proactive and learning things themselves? It could even lead them to learning constantly due to how much time they have to themselves to think. Your foundation of thinking is flawed and depends on how the individual acts, nothing to do with being a introvert. Sure you can argue it may be a factor but the foundation doesn't change. "Would you partake in societies? Get in touch with industry leads and take them out for a dinner or lunch every once in a while? Will you take charge of the events of your University and become a part of the 'elite' that is in touch with professors, organizers, and whatnot?" I'd answer to one out of those three. Unsure about the societies and since my nature isn't to lead I wouldn't try and host events and become a part of the 'elite', that isn't me. However if I managed to get in touch with someone in the industry and there was clear benefit in store for me I would of course take them out to dinner or to get a coffee. This is where your thinking goes wrong, you don't need to enjoy it you just need to do it. This is about success not enjoying your time, if you manage to enjoy your time that's just a bonus. You can easily strike up a conversation with someone if you're at dinner with them, that doesn't mean that you still rather not have dinner with someone and will probably be drained after. Another thing I have a problem with is that you assume all knowledge you get as long as it's at some social event or party would be correct or superior than something you found online. You do realize it's pretty likely someone at a party may give inaccurate information due to the event or their personal lack of knowledge? No idea if you're meaning to make it sound like a all-seeing way of doing things but that is seriously wrong. Whenever I hear tips from people depending on their status that is where it begins, the rest is my on my own researching that tip to see where it would lead and if they were right. And if they were wrong a little bit you find out what they were actually recommending and that's a done deal. "Either your ambition is so low that a minimal level of initiative suffices or you have simply never been in a challenging enough position" So we're on the right page could you give me what you think of a challenging position? and large ambition? I've honestly done more than most people have done in their entire life times for where I stand right now, sure there is a ton of things I still need to do and I'm constantly moving for that. Ambition is really subjective and to me personally is little more than a single broad ass goal that moves me to where I'm going. My argument is that being an introvert predisposes you to exhibit behavioral patterns which are conducive to lack of exposure. The question I posed was: On average, who is better at bargaining, introverts or extroverts? If your answer was extroverts, then you know what I'm saying. I'm seeing a lot of people committing the error of thinking that if a behavior seems logically independent of a personality trait then it must also be factually independent. Reality is completely different. I fully agree with you that an introvert can learn to bargain very easily: all he has to do is go out and talk to people -- and that's where I disagree too. An introvert can definitely go out and talk to people, but will he? Do me a favor and recall your bad habits from 5 years ago and tell me how many you've got rid of. When you zoom out over the course of a few years, you see people following patterns. Patterns which originate from their psyche, upbringing or constitution all the same. And it's very rare for a person to behave in patterns opposite or orthogonal to what their nature allows. To do that, they must consistently act willingly and consciously. This phrase in bold is something very very rare. If you're a self-conscious person you will be very aware of the fact that majority of the time you act on impulse, as per habit. I can tell you major ideological shifts that I've had over a meager five years, shifts you wouldn't imagine. But behavioral shifts? Very rare. I know my anger used to be a lot worse and after a conscious effort of 4 years, I've subdued it considerably. And that's about all the behavioral progress I can show you. I'm certain that you will concur when you reflect on your own life. So, the thesis statement here is that: 1) Introversion predisposes you to asocial, inefficient, behavioral patterns. 2) Behavioral patterns are very hard to get rid of. I hope when I put it this way, all doubts are clear. Put this way, yes @Konradikon I do think introversion is a disadvantage (not quite a disability because I hate that word), and that in the modern world you're always better off being extroverted. I'm all for extolling the 'producers', the dedicated, humble, people who are busy at work with their heads down. But that time is long gone when you could produce something of value by keeping your damn head down. Almost everything of value today is a team effort, and who is usually better at teamwork, introvert or extrovert? |
Thanakos said: "Do me a favor and recall your bad habits from 5 years ago and tell me how many you've got rid of."Preachee said: Oh my bad, I forgot about your claim being "that confident introvert". Well, you probably are more correct for you are one. But don't overthink too much I think. I am not speaking on behalf of anyone but I believe many people often see introverts as simply being introverted rather than high and mighty. It's not that being introverted makes you look so egotistical, but I tend to believe that your attitude is what matters. By that I mean, being introverted possibly doesn't mean you have to glance others with pitifulness or to talk your peers so curtly. I believe you wouldn't do so would you? Having disinterest in activities/preference of the same age or never taking initiative would not probably upset or have that many misunderstand. It kinda depends. For example, if people know you're smart then they will tend to see you as high and mighty if you don't make it a point to engage them. DaConduit said: sounds like you're just being lazy... That's actually a very fair criticism. But you know there's something suspicious about the fact that majority of the lazy people I know are introverts. Cneq said: But in the end that comes down to personal experience, nothing to do with being a introvert or not. I've personally been to pawnshops most of my childhood since I went to garage sales and in doing that ended being able to barter quite well and know the prices of a ton of different things. To barter you need knowledge of your item and the mindset of the type of place you're trying to resale at, if you have the knowledge the actual talking only needs to go so far since you both know what you're dealing with. And said knowledge can easily be found online and the rest comes from just doing it over and over. Maybe you just picked a bad scenario since I honestly can't see any extrovert bargaining for a better price lmao. Everything comes down to personal experience and the person in question. The mindset you're going for is saying someone who spends time on their own = less experience but you do realize someone being on their own can lead them to experience even more by being proactive and learning things themselves? It could even lead them to learning constantly due to how much time they have to themselves to think. Your foundation of thinking is flawed and depends on how the individual acts, nothing to do with being a introvert. Sure you can argue it may be a factor but the foundation doesn't change. "Would you partake in societies? Get in touch with industry leads and take them out for a dinner or lunch every once in a while? Will you take charge of the events of your University and become a part of the 'elite' that is in touch with professors, organizers, and whatnot?" I'd answer to one out of those three. Unsure about the societies and since my nature isn't to lead I wouldn't try and host events and become a part of the 'elite', that isn't me. However if I managed to get in touch with someone in the industry and there was clear benefit in store for me I would of course take them out to dinner or to get a coffee. This is where your thinking goes wrong, you don't need to enjoy it you just need to do it. This is about success not enjoying your time, if you manage to enjoy your time that's just a bonus. You can easily strike up a conversation with someone if you're at dinner with them, that doesn't mean that you still rather not have dinner with someone and will probably be drained after. Another thing I have a problem with is that you assume all knowledge you get as long as it's at some social event or party would be correct or superior than something you found online. You do realize it's pretty likely someone at a party may give inaccurate information due to the event or their personal lack of knowledge? No idea if you're meaning to make it sound like a all-seeing way of doing things but that is seriously wrong. Whenever I hear tips from people depending on their status that is where it begins, the rest is my on my own researching that tip to see where it would lead and if they were right. And if they were wrong a little bit you find out what they were actually recommending and that's a done deal. "Either your ambition is so low that a minimal level of initiative suffices or you have simply never been in a challenging enough position" So we're on the right page could you give me what you think of a challenging position? and large ambition? I've honestly done more than most people have done in their entire life times for where I stand right now, sure there is a ton of things I still need to do and I'm constantly moving for that. Ambition is really subjective and to me personally is little more than a single broad ass goal that moves me to where I'm going. My argument is that being an introvert predisposes you to exhibit behavioral patterns which are conducive to lack of exposure. The question I posed was: On average, who is better at bargaining, introverts or extroverts? If your answer was extroverts, then you know what I'm saying. I'm seeing a lot of people committing the error of thinking that if a behavior seems logically independent of a personality trait then it must also be factually independent. Reality is completely different. I fully agree with you that an introvert can learn to bargain very easily: all he has to do is go out and talk to people -- and that's where I disagree too. An introvert can definitely go out and talk to people, but will he? Do me a favor and recall your bad habits from 5 years ago and tell me how many you've got rid of. When you zoom out over the course of a few years, you see people following patterns. Patterns which originate from their psyche, upbringing or constitution all the same. And it's very rare for a person to behave in patterns opposite or orthogonal to what their nature allows. To do that, they must consistently act willingly and consciously. This phrase in bold is something very very rare. If you're a self-conscious person you will be very aware of the fact that majority of the time you act on impulse, as per habit. I can tell you major ideological shifts that I've had over a meager five years, shifts you wouldn't imagine. But behavioral shifts? Very rare. I know my anger used to be a lot worse and after a conscious effort of 4 years, I've subdued it considerably. And that's about all the behavioral progress I can show you. I'm certain that you will concur when you reflect on your own life. So, the thesis statement here is that: 1) Introversion predisposes you to asocial, inefficient, behavioral patterns. 2) Behavioral patterns are very hard to get rid of. I hope when I put it this way, all doubts are clear. Put this way, yes @Konradikon I do think introversion is a disadvantage (not quite a disability because I hate that word), and that in the modern world you're always better off being extroverted. I'm all for extolling the 'producers', the dedicated, humble, people who are busy at work with their heads down. But that time is long gone when you could produce something of value by keeping your damn head down. Almost everything of value today is a team effort, and who is usually better at teamwork, introvert or extrovert? Honestly think I must be a bad choice for this since my life has changed almost completely in the last 5 years. Behaviour wise, more productive, tons of bad habits quelled and even geographical location. A complete 180 in every sense of the word. And yet I still consider myself a introvert and do not follow your idea of not talking to people when it really matters in a professional sense or seeking help when needed. Either I just don't personally fit into your mold of what a introvert is or your entire idea of what a introvert is is wrong. "My argument is that being an introvert predisposes you to exhibit behavioral patterns which are conducive to lack of exposure. The question I posed was: On average, who is better at bargaining, introverts or extroverts? If your answer was extroverts, then you know what I'm saying." And I answered that it doesn't depend on introvert or extrovert but on experience, I never disagreed with the fact being a introvert maybe lean the other way but that has inclinations that said group experiences more than just introversion (which is just a preference, nothing more nothing less) if said person is also a pussy who doesn't have life experience or know what needs to be done that is the deciding factor, not introversion, introversion would just be a side effect in that case. Perhaps I just don't fit into the category as much as I thought but I still find that hard to believe. Nothing is black and white and I think you're blaming introversion for a completely different issue which is lack of experience. |
|
| This seems relevant to the extrovert/introvert thematic. Certainly more so than OPs emotionally-driven rant. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
calling small talk necessary this is how i know you don't have much real world experience. |
| When you’re an introvert who developed social anxiety in middle school the world is pretty much working against you, but I’m happy I’m not retarded at least. I think introverts can make it, they just have to step out of their comfort zone or use all their social energy for one big thing. |
 |
| its pontless to live life as an ugly extrovert, anybody with a couple of braincells knows that men who arent insecure in their looks are comfortable with extroversion. if your ugly, short, etc, just crawl into a hole and die. thats the way the world is. if youre a girl, you can be short, tall, fat, skinny, big nose, short nose, bald or afro it makes no difference. if youre a man, youre playing a completely different game. |
| just be yourself smh -___- if you're a shy person, just be shy. if someone hate you for this behavior, it's not your fault, it's them. don't sacrifice your self for someone else's acceptance. don't we all now live in a modern era where the freedom is the most sacred thing? really, i don't understand why a modern human being like you who live in a modern era is still disturbed by such old, outdated concept such as identity and personality -___- |
 |
Pullman said: This seems relevant to the extrovert/introvert thematic. Certainly more so than OPs emotionally-driven rant. Good video but utterly irrelevant. Doesn't clarify shit about the topic. Are you sure you aren't the one failing to think here? Cneq said: do not follow your idea of not talking to people when it really matters in a professional sense or seeking help when needed. In real world scenarios, you don't know which meeting will proffer professional benefits to you. You aren't given scenarios with captions "Professionally important", "Socially important", etc. Every event is just an event, and you don't know which one is going to help. That's what I've been trying to communicate here. That's the advantage extroverts get: they take most of the opportunities and some end up being great. Introverts don't. They just fucking don't. Your nature predisposes you to be dismissive of most social gatherings by default. Cneq said: And I answered that it doesn't depend on introvert or extrovert but on experience, I never disagreed with the fact being a introvert maybe lean the other way but that has inclinations that said group experiences more than just introversion (which is just a preference, nothing more nothing less) if said person is also a pussy who doesn't have life experience or know what needs to be done that is the deciding factor, not introversion, introversion would just be a side effect in that case. You say nothing is black and white and then go on to introduce another variable (experience) as if it's discrete and exists independently of all the factors hitherto listed. I just explained how introversion and experience are linked (negatively, just to recapitulate). Unless you can prove to me that introversion in no way hinders your ability to gain real world experience, you're not making any argument. And I doubt you can prove it at all except by faux appeals to ''correlation is not causation'' citing examples of sheltered extroverts as if it was due to their extroversion that they were sheltered in the first place. It's very simple: Introverts like to be alone, and being alone requires shutting out the world. Like it or not, in the long run, introverts do mostly end up with less practical experience unless they deliberately go the extra mile. nym_ said: just be yourself smh -___- if you're a shy person, just be shy. if someone hate you for this behavior, it's not your fault, it's them. don't sacrifice your self for someone else's acceptance. don't we all now live in a modern era where the freedom is the most sacred thing? really, i don't understand why a modern human being like you who live in a modern era is still disturbed by such old, outdated concept such as identity and personality -___- No one's hating me for it. It's not about social approval but personal success. In life, you'll have to change many things about yourself to accomplish different things. For professional success, it's important to be social on top of being smart and blabla. |
ThanakosSep 21, 2019 2:54 PM
| introversion is psychological weakness, absolutely. When people brag about being introverted, they just want to pretend that they are special snowflakes. i dont know how many times ive seen some giddy loud-mouthed vlogger talk about how much of a special introvert they are when theyre literally vlogging their breakfast to thousands of people. that being said. if youre a natural wall-flower or loner, as a male, you are basically dead. in school and in work, its the naturally extroverted go-getters that network and form relationships, that form sexually relationships, that lead successful lives. introversion is a meme word as far as im concerned, someone can claim to be a shy hikikomori but then slap on a pair of striped panties and get pounded in the anus by some random on grindr 15 minutes later. as a man, introversion, shyness, awkwardness, low self-esteem are all recipes for a hard, hard life. in hitlers germany, youd have a black triangle slapped on your arm and hopefully put out of your misery |
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