| I made this thread after my realization when discussion about a user when it came to sequel effect, but I realize this is a general opinion on mal and thus I decided to post it in the general thread I can't believe this was in my face this whole time, but I somehow didn't notice it, so basically the general argument is that the more sequels a series get, the more haters/persons that dislike the series gets filtered out, simple because majority of them will drop the series and thus the sequel will be getting more positive votes from the fans that stick around for the rest of the seasons. Sounds simple correct I use to believe this and I think most of mal also believe this, it makes absolute sense if you think about it, but there is a big flaw in this argument. The haters for most series are actually the minority meaning they do little to affect the score of a series. I will use an example, snk to prove my point especially since I have been arguing with folks regarding sequel effect, reference is here if you are interested, unfortunately I didn't realize this point when I made that thread https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1789720&show=0. Now look at this: Snk 1st season stats https://myanimelist.net/anime/16498/Shingeki_no_Kyojin/stats The haters/the persons who dislike it. 4 0.8% (9356 votes) 3 0.3% (3709 votes) 2 0.2% (2095 votes) 1 0.3% (3096 votes) snk season 3 part 2 stats in comparison https://myanimelist.net/anime/38524/Shingeki_no_Kyojin_Season_3_Part_2/stats Combining season 1 and season 3 part 2 4/10 stats percentage wise 4 1.2% (9356 votes) 3 0.4% (3709 votes) 2 0.3% (2095 votes) 1 1.1% (3096 votes) And I'm being extremely generous here, because let's not forget the fact that if some of these folks did continue the series there could be a chance that some would like the later seasons more than season 1, also there is a chance some of those low votes are from the same persons since the 1st season as well, but lets work with what we have it won't affect my point at all anyways. As you can see the rating would barely be affected, if all those haters/persons that dislike it did stick around for this season. it probably would have been at 9.18 instead of 9.20 just a guess, because of the increase in 1/10 votes percentage wise since that would do the most damage. In reality the persons that dislike the series are so small that they barely will affect the score, the real persons that should be blame are the 7,8 and 9 scorers since that is where a big chunk of the percentage comes from for most cases, lmao With that in mine fmab ranking doesn't look that impressive now, basically the series that gets the most 10/10 and 9/10 votes will get the best score. Also even though we don't like seeing a ton of gintama series we all should apologize, we blame the sequel effect for all the 9 rated gintama series, but the truth is, the persons that already like the series simple gave the sequel a higher score because they liked the sequel more. Didn't realize how insignificant the low scorers were, wow! |
| First of all, your premise would be much more sound if you compared the percentages of S1 and S3 P2 individually rather than combining the two percentages into an overall score. Your data doesn't support your argument very well at all. With that in mind, here's a full breakdown. AOT S1 10 295,656 (26.1%) 9 327,431 (28.9%) 8 276,746 (24.4%) 7 142,097 (12.5%) 6 50,775 (4.5%) 5 23,698 (2.1%) 4 9,356 (0.8%) 3 3,709 (0.3%) 2 2,095 (0.2%) 1 3,095 (0.3%) TOTAL: 1,105,343 AOT S3 P2 10 60,211 (50.9%) 9 34,991 (29.6%) 8 15,558 (13.2%) 7 4,583 (3.9%) 6 1,204 (1.0%) 5 464 (0.4%) 4 168 (0.1%) 3 93 (0.1%) 2 77 (0.1%) 1 920 (0.8%) TOTAL: 108,293 Discounting the abnormally higher percentage of 1s for S3 P2 (since a portion of those are likely to be downvoters/bots), we can see that overall, the percentages of scores 7 and below are significantly lower. Not only that, the total number of scores for S3 is about a tenth as much as S1 (although S1 has admittedly been in the database for a much longer time). While admittedly, some of these score changes can be attributed to a perceived increase in this season's quality, the sheer increase in the percentage of the high scores as well as the overall decrease in the total numbers of users with each season in their list suggests sequel effect is at least somewhat at play. The 10s and 9s from S1 are much more likely to have stuck around for this season than the 7s and below, therefore increasing the relative amount of 9-10s S3 has (which is what's making the mean so high). While this is anecdotal evidence, I myself an example of this. I have only seen S1 and S2, which I gave a 7 and a 4 respectively. I just haven't stuck around long enough, and had I watched this season (or P1), my score probably would have been 7 at best. Additionally, to suggest that because low scores are a "minority" they "don't matter" is a flawed argument. Every score that is counted by MAL into the average matters. While this is less applicable in the case of S3 P2 due to being very high in mean, once you get below about 8.9 or so even these hundredth differences in mean score can make a drastic difference in ranking. |
 |
Alright, listen up fellas. I've got a simple message for anyone not doing their part to make AoT #1 and scoring Season 3 Part 2 a 10/10. |
 |
| Sequel effect is however a very logical thing. Even without using any data a simple logic will already reveal its existence. And since user above already broke data down so I'm not gonna do that anymore. Either way in short in spite of haters the latter seasons tend to have a lot more higher scores, because most (obviously not all) people that continue the series do it because they have some degree of like towards it. And besides a few trolls most people who drop a series because they don't like it don't bother rating latter seasons of said show with a low score. Therefore sequels will have much higher % of good ratings compared to bad ones than the earlier seasons do. At least as long as they don't mess up significantly enough to alienate people who liked earlier seasons. This is a simple psychology. I don't think that it even requires such a deep thinking to understand. It's also consistent with sequels generally speaking being higher rated than the prequels, which is a very common thing. |
| @TheCobraSlayer Please stop looking at the numbers, 100k is enough of a sample size, no matter if 1 million or even 1 billion people score the series, the 2-4/10 scores will most likely won't even reach to 1.0% I know that these scores does affect the score, but the point I'm making is that they are minuscule. 7/10, 8/10, 9/10 and 10/10 scores are where the majority of the users score most series, look at the difference in percentage, so tell me which one would affect the score more? Also as I have said before, the 7,8 and 9 scorers are the ones that decide the score. If all those negative scores change to a 10/10, it would barely have increase the score, but imagine if that would happen with the scores that rate 7 and above? Now you would see a drastic jump in score. That is the point I'm making, the negative scores are too small to use the sequel effect as the answer to why sequels get higher score. @MrZawa Thanks captain obvious I literally said everything you said in my second paragraph, did you even read my post? Sigh, the haters do not determine how high a series is scored, because they are so small, what is so hard in understand that? Read my post ^ |
keragammingJul 4, 2019 1:23 PM
| @keragamming The point is that the sample of users scoring S3 is biased. It's not like a random sample would achieve the same results. Those users that scored even below 7 on S1 are just not as likely to have sat through 3 cours worth of material they weren't really liking. Additionally, you are ignoring my argument that it's scores below 7 that I am comparing here. You are also discounting the rather significant shift in 5, 6, 7, and 8 that would make a difference in a mean score. The percentage of 5-6 in S1 is 6.6% versus S3's 1.4%. How many people that thought S1 was average are really gonna continue through about 34 episodes of stuff they think is average? You can bet it's not as many as people who think S1 was great. You can even apply this to the 7s. Not everyone who watches something they think is a 7 thinks it's worth their time continuing. I certainly don't always. But seriously, if you can't understand the concept that the sample of users scoring S3 is already biased then please don't bring up statistics because you obviously don't understand them. |
|
keragamming said: Thanks captain obvious I literally said everything you said in my second paragraph, did you even read my post? Sigh, the haters do not determine how high a series is scored, because they are so small, what is so hard in understand that? Read my post ^ Well, if you understand all that I really fail to see why you still claim sequel effect does not exist, when literally top 50 will tell you it does, since if anime has more than season, 90% of the time last season will also score highest. And that's also perfectly logical. And I really fail to see how your data disprove this. The amount of very high scores will continue to increase because more and more people get disinterested and either drop it or don't pick the sequel up in the first place unless they are die hard fans. Which is why amounts of 5-8s also drop with sequels and amounts of 9-10s are likely to increase in overall %. |
| TheCobraSlayer already said everything. It's not the votebots that affect the score much, it's the percentage of people of S1 that keep watching being inclined to give it a high score. |
keragamming said: @TheCobraSlayer Please stop looking at the numbers, 100k is enough of a sample size, no matter if 1 million or even 1 billion people score the series, the 2-4/10 scores will most likely won't even reach to 1.0% I know that these scores does affect the score, but the point I'm making is that they are minuscule. my boi isnt the whole point of the post to look at the numbers? also im pretty sure his post wasnt stressing that 1% of haters, but focusing on indicating that s3 p2 was much more top heavy than s1; he pointed out s1 has a way larger proportion of SEVEN and below scores. id say im kind of an "aot hater" but ive never rated the series anything below a 5 because i can still appreciate its production quality. only reason i kept watching is to discuss with friends. i can definitely admit the series has gotten wayyy better from s1. even so you cant discount the idea that the score is higher because ppl dropped it, but why does that bother you? ur obviously a fan of the show, so just be happy its doing well and dont listen to the johns who are begrudging it its success by using this kinda logic, whether it holds weight or not. |
| I don't think that using 1 series only as a sample is a very effective way to determine whenever or not the "sequel effect" is real or not. Especially considering the example ur using is rather unique; Aot s3 pt 2 has made it to the second spot in the mal highest rated anime list. The vast majority of those 1 to 4 votes come from people downvoting the series and, if the scores weren't public, they wouldn't have been there (it's likely a decent part of those votes comes from people who haven't even watched that season and dropped the anime ages ago). |
| A note in the % combination, the votes aren't combined, and the combined percentages are wrong for 4/10s. Percentages for AOT 8+ Ratings S1 79.4% S2 79.7% S3P1 82.7% S3P2 93.7% They increasingly get more top heavy, S3P2 being an exceptional standout due to a myriad of reasons but most importantly the conclusions and answers for those die hard fans. keragamming said: This however i think is quite impressive, Legend of the Galactic Heroes has the highest % of 10s (52.5%), but unfortunately because of trolls it has an abnormally high amount of 1s (1.7%) relative to everything else.With that in mine fmab ranking doesn't look that impressive now, basically the series that gets the most 10/10 and 9/10 votes will get the best score. |
 I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| I think the huge rise of score are because those who gave the previous entry 5-9 now give a +1 score (or maybe more) to the latest supposed "best" season. If everyone is doing this (and there are thousands of them) I wouldn't be surprised if the gap of the score between this and the previous part is more than 0.5 And even tho I didnt mention the 1-4 scorers to the consideration, I won't say they are insignificant. The 1-4 scorers from this season are most likely the same 1-4 scorers from the previous part (and maybe from S2 too, coz I think the significant haters filtering only happen in S1-->S2. I don't have data for that, but that would explain why S2 to S1 difference always bigger than S3 to S2 or S4 to S3 for most series). These 1-4 scores aren't taking part in why the mean score rise that high, but their role is to keep the standard of 1-10 scaling system in mal so that there won't be any ridiculously high score. Sorry if I didn't word it clearly. My point is: The high scorers (say 5-9) are what make the mean score rise significantly compared to the previous season. The low scorers (1-4) are there to hold them back from being very high, and make comparison with other titles seems more fair. |
| @TheCobraSlayer @MrZawa @dc22 I thought the argument here is that only persons that liked the series enough would stick around for the sequel, was it not? That is why I am focusing on the 1/10 to 4/10 votes heck if you want I could include the 5/10 votes as well. I'm just showing with or without them, their votes would not affect the score that much. |
| If you would do the same and take 8 and downwards you would have a very diffrent outcome, ofc some sequels get a better rating because of the increase in quality but if you dislike a series you drop it (some dont but whatever). S1 has 43.5% in the 5-8 range S3 part 2 has 18,6% in the 5-8 range I doubt that a such high precentage of viewers think a show changed from "ok" or "good" to "masterpiece", some maybe liked the new season more but i think its the minority. Most of those 43.5% are people that just stopped watching after Season 1, for example Season 2 has less than half of the ratings Season 1 had and Season 3 part one has less than half the ratings Season 2 had. Some people already think a 5 or 6 is a bad score just sayn. |
-Mullerio-Jul 4, 2019 1:58 PM
 |
keragamming said: @TheCobraSlayer @MrZawa @dc22 I thought the argument here is that only persons that liked the series enough would stick around for the sequel, was it not? That is why I am focusing on the 1/10 to 4/10 votes heck if you want I could include the 5/10 votes as well. I'm just showing with or without them, their votes would not affect the score that much. Okay then, if you rate series with a 6 are you likely to watch another 3 seasons? Because honestly I often don't. And that's the same for many people. Which is why sequels get inflated. Even people who rated it 5 or 6, heck even 7 might not have enough will or time to continue it. While people who rated it 8, 9, 10 and obviously liked the show a lot are much more likely to watch it, possibly even sacrifice some of their 5, 6 or 7s to watch that instead. And that's how over time it gets inflated. I really don't understand what's difficult about it. |
MrZawaJul 4, 2019 1:57 PM
| @keragamming It is. But 1-4 are flat out “dislike” scores. You are completely ignoring the 5-6 scores which are essentially a lukewarm response and even a 7 which is the first “good” score in MAL’s system. What I am trying to point out, as mentioned earlier, is that the lukewarm response in S1 is MUCH higher compared to S3 (those scores of 7 and below). The 4 and below do matter a bit, but what is more important is the relative proportion of 5-7 versus 10 which is what’s making the difference in the mean scores. Someone who thinks S1 was meh is far less likely to continue investing time into the series than someone who loved it. The sample of users scoring S3 is a biased sample since these are people most likely to love the series. To illustrate the point about biased samples, let’s say you wanted to figure out what percentage of the population in your town likes anime. What would give you a more accurate result, asking 1000 random people at your town’s local grocery store or mall or asking people walking into the comic shop that bought an anime BD? It’s obviously the former, since in the latter you’re sampling from people that obviously like the thing in question. Similarly, the S3 P2 sample is biased since it’s far more likely to include people that loved the series than those who thought it was bad or meh/okay/average. This is indicated by how top heavy S3 P2 is and as another user pointed out, the increasingly top heavy proportion over time. |
|
Mullerio said: If you would do the same and take 8 and downwards you would have a very diffrent outcome, ofc some sequels get a better rating because of the increase in quality but if you dislike a series you drop it (some dont but whatever). S1 has 43.5% in the 5-8 range S3 part 2 has 18,6% in the 5-8 range I doubt that a such high precentage of viewers think a show changed from "ok" or "good" to "masterpiece", some maybe liked the new season more but i think its the minority. Most of those 43.5% are people that just stopped watching after Season 1, for example Season 2 has less than half of the ratings Season 1 had and Season 3 part one has less than half the ratings Season 2 had. The fact that season 3 part 1 that ended month ago is 8.48 and this one is significantly higher, yes a lot of persons consider this current season as the best season, meaning higher scores. It literally reveal the basement neatly tie up old plot points. @znyggisen Code geass and majority of the top 200 series will have 1-5/10 votes below 1% or a little above it. Sword art online is consider to be one of the most hated series on mal, but yet its rated 7.56 which actually is a good score, the point is most people score series from 7-10 meaning the negative scores will most times be in the minority and even series like sword art online that have a lot of low rating will decent overall rating. My point is, the 1-5 scores are not the ones that will really affect the scores much. |
| @keragamming You are actively ignoring every single argument in this thread, dude. |
|
| Oh wow, the first season of AoT has as many 10s as the third season has people who have completed it. Even some of the people who loved it didn't continue watching! O_O |
Vilkku92Jul 4, 2019 2:11 PM
 |
keragamming said: Sword art online is consider to be one of the most hated series on mal, but yet its rated 7.56 which actually is a good score, the point is most people score series from 7-10 meaning the negative scores will most times be in the minority and even series like sword art online that have a lot of low rating will decent overall rating. No shit Sherlock. Look buddy, i know you think Attack on Titan is "OMG Greatest Thing Ever", and it probably blew your mind the first time you read/watched it. Hell, it probably still does, judging based on how much love you express towards it. I know because it was the same with me. I'm not gonna say you're wrong and AoT is overhyped bullshit for normies, because if there's anything more annoying than a braindead fanboy is a braindead hater, but let me tell you this, from the bottom of the black hole i have instead of a heart: No one scores must metters to you but yours. You can also appreciate other people, specially if they're your friends, but at the end of the day, you decide which score you give to the anime you watch. MAL list doesn't matter, it never did, it's just another list on another site on the internet, based on data. Fuck thr MAL list. Bayek said: Thans for remiding me why people found Eere annoying. Please, tell me your post was just a joke. I don't care if it's not true.Alright, listen up fellas. I've got a simple message for anyone not doing their part to make AoT #1 and scoring Season 3 Part 2 a 10/10. |
 |
BlancaXLobo said: Safeguarding and preserving humanity is no laughing matter. Everyone must do their part to upvote Attack on Titan. Give your hearts!Thans for remiding me why people found Eere annoying. Please, tell me your post was just a joke. I don't care if it's not true. |
|
| @keragamming i agree this season is slightly better (5.8 S1 to 6.3 for me) but i dont think that 1. everyone agrees and 2. people that rated the series a 1-8 suddenly think its a masterpiece. |
-Mullerio-Jul 4, 2019 2:24 PM
|
| @Bayek actually i'm the guy that thinks that we actually should do the opposite. To preserve humanity, I mean. |
|
| @TheCobraSlayer I get your point, but the point is the 10/10 and to some extend the 9/10 votes are what really determines a series position. season 3 part 1 has 50k 10/10 with over 220k overall votes season 3 part 2 has 60k 10/10 votes with only 100k overall votes. That is a sign that more people are loving season 3 part 2 more and are giving it more 10/10. I was never arguing that these other scores don't matter, but the point is the lower scores are lower percentage wise. for season 1, if person that score the series a 8/10 or 9/10 decide to all give the first season a 10/10 instead, it would be number 1 on mal, those other scores would not affect it much, that is the point I am making. If more fans of the series was giving snk a 10/10 instead of a 9/10 or 8/10 no one would be able to stop it and this can be applied to most series. Mullerio said: @keragamming i agree this season is slightly better (5.8 S1 to 6.3 for me) but i dont think that 1. everyone agrees and 2. people that rated the series a 1-8 suddenly think its a masterpiece. If those 9/10 which is 28% decide to change their score from a 9/10 to a 10/10 snk would be number 1 on mal, simple because its percentage is so big. Now do you realise when I say it is the fans them self to blame and not the persons that dislike the series? |
keragammingJul 4, 2019 2:35 PM
| @keragamming Yes, people giving shows higher scores would make the scores higher. I'm not sure what this has to do with the sequel effect, though. |
|
| @keragamming The fact you think that this means more people love S3 more indicates you don’t understand the point about biased samples or the sequel effect at all. Of course this season would have a higher mean, because the lower scores that drag the series below a 9.5-10 average make up a lower percentage of scores than in S1. And that theoretical example would still be affected by the 20-25% of scores that would drag it down below a 10. The proportion of scores below 7 or so have a significant effect on a mean score. FMAB is a perfect example of this. |
|
| Ah, everything I think is told but one thing to add is as long as most MAL members just use 5-10 rating system we "have" the sequel effect... And even the sequel effect is more correct for the more popular shows keragamming said: The point I am making is that those 0.3% 0.2% of bad votes doesn't affect the score that much. You're completely ignoring the "number" of people who would hate a sequel and changing it to "percentage" of people and that's what you're wrong with "The sequel effect" |
mhkrJul 4, 2019 2:51 PM
keragamming said: I get your point, but the point is the 10/10 and to some extend the 9/10 votes are what really determines a series position. season 3 part 1 has 50k 10/10 with over 220k overall votes season 3 part 2 has 60k 10/10 votes with only 100k overall votes. That is a sign that more people are loving season 3 part 2 more and are giving it more 10/10. I was never arguing that these other scores don't matter, but the point is the lower scores are lower percentage wise. for season 1, if person that score the series a 8/10 or 9/10 decide to all give the first season a 10/10 instead, it would be number 1 on mal, those other scores would not affect it much, that is the point I am making. If more fans of the series was giving snk a 10/10 instead of a 9/10 or 8/10 no one would be able to stop it and this can be applied to most series. You are just trying to make data fit your conclusion now. Just the fact that the amount of users scoring each season is significantly dropping, from over 1 million to just over 100 thousand for S3 P2 so far shows that even people who loved S1, or for that matter even S3 P1 (since it's still over 100 thousand less), didn't bother to watch S3 P2 at all. That's all the more amplified for people who thought it's meh (5) or just okay (6-7). Of course it's true S3 P2 is probably the best part so far in terms of what SNK's appeal is. So yes, many people who continued it scored it higher than other seasons also because it's good. However the amount of people who rated S1-S3P1 9-10 to begin with and continued onto P2 is much higher than people who rated it with, let's say 6 or 7. Therefore sequels will be more likely than prequels to receive a very high score by people who already love said series a lot, and will therefore achieve better scores. You are trying very hard to avoid admitting this, but you really can't. And that's what constitutes sequel effect. Any data you provide therefore do not disprove its existence because it exists. |
MrZawaJul 4, 2019 2:46 PM
Vilkku92 said: @keragamming Yes, people giving shows higher scores would make the scores higher. I'm not sure what this has to do with the sequel effect, though. Ok they are saying that with more sequels the less haters, that give the series a score between 1-5/10, my point is that those 0.1%, 0.3% etc is small compare to the higher scores with 7/10 which is around 13% 8/10 which is around 28% etc. The point I am making is that those 0.3% 0.2% of bad votes doesn't affect the score that much. Now if the first season of snk has like 5% 10% 1-4/10 votes then they would have a point, because that would do a lot of damage to the series score, so if those persons were to continue the series, then that is what I would consider a true sequel effect. |
keragamming said: The point isn't just 1-5.Sword art online is consider to be one of the most hated series on mal, but yet its rated 7.56 which actually is a good score, the point is most people score series from 7-10 meaning the negative scores will most times be in the minority and even series like sword art online that have a lot of low rating will decent overall rating. My point is, the 1-5 scores are not the ones that will really affect the scores much. Percentages for SAO 8+ Ratings S1 56.3% (616,619 votes) S2 44.4% (292,906 votes, 52.5% decrease) OS 66.8% (120,362 votes, 58.9% decrease) S3 61.6% (82,267 votes, 31.6% decrease) 6+ Ratings S1 84.7% (927,051 votes) S2 82% (540,484 voters, 41.6% decrease) OS 93.1% (167,792 votes, 68.9% decrease) S3 91.5% (122,217 votes, 27.1% decrease) Despite, or you could argue because of the dip, it trends up going forward. Which in theory reflects the sequel effect, especially when you consider the huge decreases in voters from both but especially 6+ ratings during S2 and OS. Point is it's increasingly more top heavy as more sequels come out. |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| I think I get what you are trying to say, that if all the 7-9 scorers chose to rate it 10 instead that's where the real boost would occur. You are literally saying that they are to blame for not high enough score. Seriously? I understand if you just want to scoff at haters and prove how insignificant they are but I don't see how exactly it contradicts the sequel effect. There are still more people who generally liked the series sticking around and it's more likely that more of them chose to give it as high or even higher score. |
| My point on the previous thread wasn't really on sequel effect but on another topic that I felt that thread also opened but let put that aside for a moment. Actually just like you I do believe that sequel effect doesn't really influence the AoT franchise if not to say that it is none existant and for a completely different reason. My reasoning for that is quite simple, so far in this thread most of the argument so far has been comparing S1 with S3P2 but if you decide to add the 2 other seasons to the discussion it's quite obvious that sequel effect just doesn't work. According to sequel effect every sequel to an anime should have a higher score than the previous one but until this season came out S1 was still the highest rated AoT season with 8.48. S2 scored much lower at 8.43 and S3P1 just had the same rating as S1 at 8.48. But even after that let's say that sequel effect is still the reason why S3P2 has such a score. That would basically mean that the people who weren't that big of a fan of the show didn't drop it after S1 and decided to wait the 4 years before S2 to have what most people agreed on was a lesser season, but still they didn't drop it for some reason and wait another year for S3P1 and after watching it for some reason they finally decide to drop it even though the next season was just 6 months away and every manga readers and their mothers was screaming that it was going to adapt the best arc of the story. It just doesn't work especially when there is a need for a really large number to of people to drop it here to be able to explain the huge jump in rating. Sequel effect in theory really makes sense and it just sound so smart when you say it but even a show like heroAca which many say is one of the best example of it still in the end contradict it as well. Yes S2 has a higher score compare to S1 with 8.67 and 8.41 respectivelly but S3 has lower score than S2 with 8.64. I do believe sequel effect might be a thing but it isn't an exact science. Just like I said in the previous thread there is just too many factors at end and it's just ridiculious to try and justify people's enjoyment with just one simple internet theory. I can't take these mal score discussions anymore it's just a damn number |
JoyBoy_316Jul 4, 2019 3:08 PM
keragamming said: Vilkku92 said: @keragamming Yes, people giving shows higher scores would make the scores higher. I'm not sure what this has to do with the sequel effect, though. Ok they are saying that with more sequels the less haters, that give the series a score between 1-5/10, my point is that those 0.1%, 0.3% etc is small compare to the higher scores with 7/10 which is around 13% 8/10 which is around 28% etc. The point I am making is that those 0.3% 0.2% of bad votes doesn't affect the score that much. Now if the first season of snk has like 5% 10% 1-4/10 votes then they would have a point, because that would do a lot of damage to the series score, so if those persons were to continue the series, then that is what I would consider a true sequel effect. You're relying on the basis that the percentage of S1 and S3P2 are derived from the same number of voters. They aren't. S1 has 3.7% of people who scored 5 or less, but that 3.7% add up to about 42k of voters. Now, how many of these 42k actually stick around to score S3P2? Probably not a lot. As a matter of fact, S3P2 only has 1.7k of people giving 5 or below. The total number of viewers decreased by 90%, whereas the total number of 5/10 or below decreased by 96%. |
 |
BlancaXLobo said: MAL list doesn't matter, it never did, it's just another list on another site on the internet, based on data. Fuck thr MAL list. Thank you for these words of wisdom. |
znyggisen said: @JoyBoy_316 It's obviously not an all or nothing. Sequels can just straight up be better and in this example, part 3 is rated (so far) noticeably higher than the other AoT sequels so it may just be a better season. As you said, there are many factors at play, although I don't quite know what this has to do with peoples enjoyment, it is just an explanation why, in general, sequels of equal quality are rated higher. If the sequel is considered noticeably better or worse than probably hold more weight than any other factor. I agree, my problem with the sequel effect theory is that most of the people who throw it into conversations completely ignore the quality argument. One of the guys advocating for it in this thread straight up admitted that he dropped the show after S2, how can he be a judge of quality. For me sequel effect only really works when firstly just like you said the seasons have the same quality but that isn't always the case. It mostly is only with short stories of 25 or so eps like new game whereas long running stories that spam hundreds of manga chapters like AoT or heroAca are no way near that consistent. And secondly when the bolk of the audience is either fanboys or haters, it just can't keep up with people like me who rate either on quality or overall enjoyment. And I do believe there is a lot of us because my personal scores on this show just perfectly reflect the general concensius with S1 and S3 faily equal, S2 the lesser one and S3P2 the best. |
| Your point is rather unclear and I have no idea why you combined S1+S3P2 ratings rather than comparing them separately. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, your argument is that despite that the two installments are many seasons apart, there's not a significant difference in 1-4 rating percentages (S1 and S3P2 have 1,6% and 1,1% respectively) and you're asking why doesn't the lower rating proportion decrease if the haters have left. But you must know that one outlier doesn't disprove that a general rule exists. The reason that the lower rating proportions of S3P2 isn't that smaller than S1 is because of an extra effort to bring it down by users who don't want to see it in Top 1 and even then it is .5% less which is not nothing. I also think you should include 5's too as it also implies dissatisfaction with the show in which case it becomes 3.7% for S1 and 1.5% for S3P2. The effect is undeniable. For reference, here's many franchises and their 1-5 rating proportions for S1 and S2: Natsume's Book of Friends S1: 3% S2: 1.4% Gintama: S1: 4.9% S2: 2.9% Mushi-shi S1: 3% S2: 1.4% Attack On Titan S1: 3.7% S2: 2.7% And many many more. As long as the S2 wasn't a complete drop in quality like Chuunibyou you'll see that it decreases every time. |
AuronJul 4, 2019 4:12 PM
 |
| Dude, u r 2 smart 4 meh... I can't follow ya. |
 |
| The OP is actually right for the most part on this one. I don't think he's saying the sequel effect doesn't exist, he's just saying it doesn't have nearly as much of an impact as everyone says it has and I agree with him. Yes people who disliked a series are generally not going to watch the sequel, but even so the percentages for most anime on Mal between the scores 1-5 are very low. So even if those people who disliked the series continued with the sequel and still rated it between 1-5, the percentages of those scores added up would still be very low compared to the scores of the people who liked the series (7-10). Therefore if a sequel is rated higher than the prequel it makes more sense to attribute it to an increase in quality rather than the sequel effect. Besides there are so much anime on Mal that contradict the sequel effect that it's hilarious that still so much people believe it to be the end all be all. And in the case of AOT S3 P2, the sequel effect is not why its rating is so high. Yes the sequel effect has some kind of impact but it isn't anywhere near as impactful as the series just increasing in quality. This is also the case for a lot of other series as well. The quality of the series has a much greater effect than the sequel effect. |
| Did we really need another thread about scores? Isn't this your third one OP? |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas |
Ten said: I think I get what you are trying to say, that if all the 7-9 scorers chose to rate it 10 instead that's where the real boost would occur. You are literally saying that they are to blame for not high enough score. Seriously? I understand if you just want to scoff at haters and prove how insignificant they are but I don't see how exactly it contradicts the sequel effect. There are still more people who generally liked the series sticking around and it's more likely that more of them chose to give it as high or even higher score. He's saying it contradicts the sequel effect to an extent because those people that didn't like the series were always in the minority. So even if they migrated to the sequel and still didn't like the series, they would still be in the minority. For a series like this, the percentage of votes 1-5 are always much much lower than the percentage of votes 6-10. So he's saying since they will always be in the minority whether they continue with the series or not, they are not really having a major impact on the score of the series. He knows the sequel effect exists and is real, he's just saying it's not nearly as impactful as everyone says. Ultimately he's saying that a sequel being higher rated than a prequel is more the result of an increase in quality rather than the sequel effect. |
| It's not just the haters that are important, its anyone who rated the anime below its average. If an anime has a mean score of 7.9 most of the people who rated it 8 or higher will most likely watch the sequel. A fair amount of the people who rated it 7 will continue. but some people use 7 to mean "alright" and might not deem it to be good enough to continue. Whenever someone who rated it lower than its average drops out the seasons after the point that they stopped will be rated slightly higher in their absence, and this effect multiplies over many people. |
  |
Tropisch said: This is my succinct perspective on M.A.L. scores: "In a rating system where F.M.A.:B. is ranked the highest and Dragon Ball Z outranks Lain one's gay and one's taste is gay lend one actual credence to it."Did we really need another thread about scores? Isn't this your third one OP? |
 It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Sphinxter said: That's not significant at all, audience scores are by the majority based on enjoyment. That statement just reeks of whining that people enjoy something more than another and it makes you upset.Tropisch said: This is my succinct perspective on M.A.L. scores: "In a rating system where F.M.A.:B. is ranked the highest and Dragon Ball Z outranks Lain one's gay and one's taste is gay lend one actual credence to it."Did we really need another thread about scores? Isn't this your third one OP? |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| I still think all seasons or sequels should be combined into one database. |
| It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person. |
Lunilah said: I never said, implied, or insinuated that cared what is on top of M.A.L.'s score list.Sphinxter said: That's not significant at all, audience scores are by the majority based on enjoyment. That statement just reeks of whining that people enjoy something more than another and it makes you upset.This is my succinct perspective on M.A.L. scores: "In a rating system where F.M.A.:B. is ranked the highest and Dragon Ball Z outranks Lain one's gay and one's taste is gay lend one actual credence to it." As I said I lend zero credence to it because I've seen what is on top. Simply put: a number that repræsents the average acclaim of a medium holds no relevance to my life; why would it? What useful information can it possibly hold? It's not even of statistical interest because the sample pool isn't randomly selected. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Gorochu said: The problem with this is that reviews are not supposed to be updated as one watches.I still think all seasons or sequels should be combined into one database. Since seasons are often many years apart reviews could only start to roll out once the entire series has concluded which is problematic of course that there can be no reviews till that point. But I feel this approach has its flaws. Some seasons actually last an entire year — truly can no reviews roll out before its eventual conclusion? That seems like a disservice to the fans so yes I do believe reviews should be updatable for this reason and multiple seasons should be joined or at least the system should have a concept of parent entries where a user is permitted to review seasons and even episodes separate or the main series as a hole. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
More topics from this board
» Do you wish people had anime hair in real life?WaffleMaster89 - Oct 21 |
28 |
by FanofAction
»»
4 minutes ago |
|
» Summer 2025 Best Season?Duado - Oct 26 |
17 |
by alshu
»»
6 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » Do you hold back tears when there are sad anime moments?Frans001 - 4 hours ago |
12 |
by Frans001
»»
6 minutes ago |
|
» How would you "Zero to hero" someone into anime?thewiru - Oct 26 |
46 |
by Retro8bit
»»
12 minutes ago |
|
» Ranking anime characters?caramel_pudding - Oct 26 |
7 |
by Retro8bit
»»
13 minutes ago |