Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata ♭ Episode 9 Discussion

RandomCritic said:
I am disappointed on many people around the web that had commented on this episode.
Bashing Utaha and Eririr.
Calling them traitors...
But I believe they are just using the fanaticism to judge and flame... instead of viewing things on all parties' perspectives.
You guys (These people) are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Tomoya is a guy with a lineal type of thinking and because of his selfish desired he dragged to Pro creators that could grow into pro for a silly child project. They went along with him because they cared for the guy and took the chance to try to win his affection. But then Katou megumi shows up. The whole deal of the project is Katou megumi, all Tomoya can think is Katou Megumi; even the name of the circle is Named Megumi soft (although this was accidental) Everything wa smegumi this megumi that. This is why Utaha and Eriri fought so hard to win Tomoya's affections because all he thinks about is Megumi Megumi Megumi. So tell me? Its is fair? It is fair to continue on a project that is all about one girl when they are professionals that have to think of their future? Sure, i do not approve of the method they used but still it is not fair for them to continue on on a silly project if they are going to loose in the end. Tomoya with his little thing drag them back to archiving their most potential and they went along because they thought they had a chance to win the guy's heart. But it was all a loosing battle. Megumi won in the end. And what's left of Utaha and Eriri is their future. So they need to focus on that. Tomoya's project is just a child project dream, it is like any project high school kids think to dream and archive, but those projects always get canceled when life throws them unique and better opportunities for their future. I know, because I am a game and animation designer. In a sense this is not betrayal... its just maturing and move along into what's more important. Even if they finished Tomoya's game, it was just a game sell on a comikete not at a professional level for a company. Sure that Akane bitch brainwashed and lured them stealing them away from Tomoya but in a sense it helped them grow more professional. Tell me, would you all keep fighting a loosing battle? Tomoya did not love Eriri nor Utaha... the only thing in his mind was Megumi. Utaha and Eriri had nothing to win. So moving on is their best choice. You all blame Eriri and Utaha... but Tomoya is also at fault for being stupidly dense and not being clear with them since the beginning. So do not blame those girls before looking at all parties' perspective.

iTzKenzo said:
Thats a nice point of view and i agree with you mate but at least they could tell him not hide it until the last second...thats coward asf.
If they were any "professional" they would sit and tell tomoya "hey i cant do any project with you anymore cuse i have new projects and other stuff to do." that would be enough but what they did was bad for someone they say they love.
Both Eriri and Utaha knew he was working on a new project and that ofc he would call them, hiding they had a new project already was a bad idea. backstab :S

sry for my english :D

RandomCritic said:
I am disappointed on many people around the web that had commented on this episode.
Bashing Utaha and Eririr.
Calling them traitors...
But I believe they are just using the fanaticism to judge and flame... instead of viewing things on all parties' perspectives.
You guys (These people) are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Tomoya is a guy with a lineal type of thinking and because of his selfish desired he dragged to Pro creators that could grow into pro for a silly child project. They went along with him because they cared for the guy and took the chance to try to win his affection. But then Katou megumi shows up. The whole deal of the project is Katou megumi, all Tomoya can think is Katou Megumi; even the name of the circle is Named Megumi soft (although this was accidental) Everything wa smegumi this megumi that. This is why Utaha and Eriri fought so hard to win Tomoya's affections because all he thinks about is Megumi Megumi Megumi. So tell me? Its is fair? It is fair to continue on a project that is all about one girl when they are professionals that have to think of their future? Sure, i do not approve of the method they used but still it is not fair for them to continue on on a silly project if they are going to loose in the end. Tomoya with his little thing drag them back to archiving their most potential and they went along because they thought they had a chance to win the guy's heart. But it was all a loosing battle. Megumi won in the end. And what's left of Utaha and Eriri is their future. So they need to focus on that. Tomoya's project is just a child project dream, it is like any project high school kids think to dream and archive, but those projects always get canceled when life throws them unique and better opportunities for their future. I know, because I am a game and animation designer. In a sense this is not betrayal... its just maturing and move along into what's more important. Even if they finished Tomoya's game, it was just a game sell on a comikete not at a professional level for a company. Sure that Akane bitch brainwashed and lured them stealing them away from Tomoya but in a sense it helped them grow more professional. Tell me, would you all keep fighting a loosing battle? Tomoya did not love Eriri nor Utaha... the only thing in his mind was Megumi. Utaha and Eriri had nothing to win. So moving on is their best choice. You all blame Eriri and Utaha... but Tomoya is also at fault for being stupidly dense and not being clear with them since the beginning. So do not blame those girls before looking at all parties' perspective.

Contreras1991 said:


You still missing the point, nobody here is against that those two went for the best oportunity, is the way that how they do it that the people is against, this was far from worst than what the MC did to Katou, and this is the reason why everyone is calling them traitots. They didn't told him that a big company wanted to recruit them, and that they wanted to accept the offer, they just waited to him come with a new proposal, to break his hopes in his face. The worst thing is that they were stuck artistically because they mixed personal feelings with work and that is not MC fault, he just wanted create a game, and those two just joined to have an opportunity to win his heart. You can't just force someone to love you, im pretty sure that the MC apreciated what they did for him anyway.

Talking about MC feelings, he knew (Sort of) that those had feelings for him, but he wasn't sure how to answer them, so he preferred act like professional and ignore it for a while (In the LN he talks about it, when Katou asked him about the feelings of Utaha and Eriri)

RandomCritic said:


You do have a point.

However... if they finished with Project Saekano. It would be natural for them to move to something else. They did not know Tomoya was going to do a new project until that very moment.
So is like... "I am so sorry Tomoya, but we did not know you were going to continue on doing doujinshis and we needed to continue on with our work. Eriri wanted to improve herself and I wanted to work with her once more... so we accepted the job. But we did not know you wanted to do a new one up until now... but it is a job for a profesional company so we can not let this opportunity go."
That is what Utaha was trying to say... however Utaha chose the method to make Tomoya hate him so he moves on and she moves on instead.
I am sure that if Tomoya told them he wanted to do something in the future, and if Utaha and Eriri did not had that job then they would had gone with the project.
But a company has more weight than a doujinshi because its their future.

Like I said; I did not approve the method they used. But I believe it was normal. Doujinshi Project was over, go back to work.
Or what? Did you guys and Tomoya thought Utaha and Eriri would be forever on stand-by waiting for Tomoya to say "Hey guys~ I got a new idea for a game! lets get together and work on it like old times!"
Are them his daughters or wives to report to him every single thing they do?
I don't think so.

RandomCritic said:


You do have a point.

However... if they finished with Project Saekano. It would be natural for them to move to something else. They did not know Tomoya was going to do a new project until that very moment.
So is like... "I am so sorry Tomoya, but we did not know you were going to continue on doing doujinshis and we needed to continue on with our work. Eriri wanted to improve herself and I wanted to work with her once more... so we accepted the job. But we did not know you wanted to do a new one up until now... but it is a job for a profesional company so we can not let this opportunity go."
That is what Utaha was trying to say... however Utaha chose the method to make Tomoya hate him so he moves on and she moves on instead.
I am sure that if Tomoya told them he wanted to do something in the future, and if Utaha and Eriri did not had that job then they would had gone with the project.
But a company has more weight than a doujinshi because its their future.

Like I said; I did not approve the method they used. But I believe it was normal. Doujinshi Project was over, go back to work.
Or what? Did you guys and Tomoya thought Utaha and Eriri would be forever on stand-by waiting for Tomoya to say "Hey guys~ I got a new idea for a game! lets get together and work on it like old times!"
Are them his daughters or wives to report to him every single thing they do?
I don't think so.

MomoSinX said:


But both Utaha and Eriri knew one month prior that Tomoya was thinking up a new project yet they still accepted the big one which in itself wouldn't have been a problem in the first place if they communicated properly.

GD1551 said:


That doesn't matter, in the end Utaha still gave him a chance to win (at least her) back over. But he flopped it big time.

Although she has no real role in the project itself, she still has her responsibilities to her employer to get on that project. So the MC can complain and react like that all he wants, he isn't relevant and quite frankly he's an annoying, selfish little kid.

He knows they like him yet refuse to properly shut them down (only does this with kato btw, the one who gives the LEAST hints of this), refuses to even try with them and only wants things his way. Honestly it felt that he was manipulating their affection for him to get what he wanted but that's just me. This was completely evident when he forced that last route into the game they made, a route which ultimately dragged the quality of the game down (reviews were mixed on that part).

Either way, this series sorta lost me with the drama anyway, first season was entertaining and light hearted, this season they want to dial up the shitty drama (and yeah, it's shitty drama) for no good reason.

Contreras1991 said:


I think that you got it really really bad, the MC is upset because they didn't told him that they going to accept a big proposal, heck they didn't told him that a big company were going to recruit the, so he naturally felt a little bit betrayed, that two of his personal friends, did that to him, telling that to his face when he was bringing with hopes his new project

I dont think that he is manipulating them, in fact they were lying to themselves thinking that doing this work, they would get the MC love, they did the mistake of mix work with personal feelings. When Tomoya added the new route, he felt really really bad, because Eriri was suffering because of it, he was about to cancel that route, but Katou pushed him to continue, because was his creation and utaha nor eriri would want to Tomoya to cancell it because if them

GD1551 said:


It doesn't matter if they didn't tell him, because let's be real, it's none of his business and secondly they gave him time to win them back over but they didn't want him saying stuff that he didn't mean. Why should they say no to a once in a lifetime project for a lie? Because from what I take of his personality he'd have definitely lied to keep them aboard. Instead they chose not telling him and giving him an opportunity to win them over in a genuine manner and I think that was the right call.

All of them had their own reasons for being there (and for 3/4 the reason is the MC) and the MC KNOWS THIS yet takes two acclaimed creators for his project and doesn't even have the decency to even try to let them win him over. Also that last route was totally self serving, ok he may have opted to cancel it, but how genuine was he being? He knows that she likes him a lot and that she would think that he'd be disappointed if it didn't happen, so she pushed herself through her fever to finish it for him. Dude is despicable and deserves to lose all of them tbh.

Dephree said:


Lol, just because you don't like mc doesn't mean you are right. People who think this is betrayal base their opinions on the fact that both of them knew mc was working on the new project and despite knowing this they didn't tell him that they were working on another project until he came to Utaha with his new proposal. Is it that hard to understand this or are just too busy with hating a fictional character over his harem.

GD1551 said:


It doesn't matter if they didn't tell him, because let's be real, it's none of his business and secondly they gave him time to win them back over but they didn't want him saying stuff that he didn't mean. Why should they say no to a once in a lifetime project for a lie? Because from what I take of his personality he'd have definitely lied to keep them aboard. Instead they chose not telling him and giving him an opportunity to win them over in a genuine manner and I think that was the right call.

All of them had their own reasons for being there (and for 3/4 the reason is the MC) and the MC KNOWS THIS yet takes two acclaimed creators for his project and doesn't even have the decency to even try to let them win him over. Also that last route was totally self serving, ok he may have opted to cancel it, but how genuine was he being? He knows that she likes him a lot and that she would think that he'd be disappointed if it didn't happen, so she pushed herself through her fever to finish it for him. Dude is despicable and deserves to lose all of them tbh.

eikichi00 said:
I don't get the sense that anyone here is particularly bashing Utaha and Eriri for the fact they're accepted a golden opportunity that doesn't come very often. It's more to do with the fact they didn't even have the decency to inform Tomoya at the earliest convenience. I mean they already had a good feeling there was a chance he might be scheming up another project. So why not come out straight and break the news asap instead of allowing him to have this false hope that you could be part of his project?

And the worst thing about it, I thought they were friends after everything they've been through.

That said. Tomoya has his own faults too. He was dead set on thinking Utaha and Eriri would end joining him again. It didn't seem like he ever considered the possibility those two could reject his offer, as they may have other work and commitments keeping them busy. He should at least have a plan B ready, but he didn't.

Contreras1991 said:


Sorry, but you cant force someone to love you, the mc knew (sort of) that they had feelings for him, but he said that he doesn't know how to answer them, so he chooses to act professionally and ignore that for the moment, until he had a good answer for them (MC respect utaha as creator, and he valued his childhood friendship with Eriri)( there is also the fear thst the circle might break if he choose any of them, so the mc was pretty much put in a no win situation). The mc was really concerned about eriri, that's what caused his friendship break up with Katou when he didn't told her that he went to take care of Eriri, and gave up his dreams to present the game in time to that Con.

Nothing change the fact that was Utaha's and Eriri's fault of mix personal feelings with work, the MC was just acting like a friendly director, like a professional who is focused in his projects and work, but also taking care of his friends

So if Eriri (she had failed previously to the MC) and Utaha really valued their friendship and their feelings for MC they, should have told him about their plans, and not wait for the moment when MC tell them his plans, just to break his hopes in his face. I insist MC was upset because they hid that, and they chooses to reveal it in that moment

GD1551 said:


I'm not talking about forcing love here, but if he clearly has to know that at least Utaha really likes him, she is always trying to get him on dates, always says super suggestive or out right sexual things to him and even slept naked in his damn room. What, does he need a dude holding up two signals for him to understand her feelings? I don't think he "sort of" knew, he knew. Also him saying he doesn't have a good answer for them again just proves to me he was stringing them along. If you know that these complex feelings are going around between several of the people in your group, all directed at you ,why would you think that was sustainable? Why would you think it would be appropriate to keep using them like that especially with how Utaha was acting prior to all of this?

Like I said, the reason they chose not to tell him was to give him an attempt to genuinely convince them to stay on, he failed and thus they moved on. He can cry about it how much he wants, he can feel "betrayed", he can do whatever, but at the end of the day he was a weak link holding a strong chain together and should have been removed long ago. Remember they didn't even have the intention of ditching him until they realized what he was doing to their personal growth. Yeah he might be looking out for them as a friend, but at the end of the day, his main goal is to use their names to bring attention to the game.

I mean think about it, he stated as much in this season, that it would be hard to ignore the story and art by the duo and he was pretty much right about that. Not to mention the way he asked her to come aboard i.e. in any capacity, to me screams "I want to use your name" rather than "I need you, the person". This might not be the intent of the author but I'm just stating how this comes across to me.

CrazyFrogz said:


I don't think so. We might get a chance for season 2. 4-5 volume need to cover for final volume. Probably we end with cliffhanger

Contreras1991 said:


It seem that you really didn't understand MC behavior and you clearly don't understand why he was not satisfied with the success of his own game, and had to do a lot with your grudge against him, if you think that he is using the names of his friends for his selfish reasons. In fact he said that he was not happy with the game because of that ( fame of Eriri and Utaha) Even Katou said that the game felt like it was a creation of them, than him. So now he wants to a game that had his personal seal this time.

The subject of love, is not something simple to answer, and it is worse when it comes to unrequited love, you are making it sound like if was easy

He personally called them because 1 he liked them as creators, and he is a fan of their works 2 they are his friends

Opportunity to stay on? Stay on for what?

Again, not MC fault that those two mixed personal feelings and work

The way that you are writing, sounds like you are forcing MC to love them

So i suggest you to get rid a little bit of the grudge against the MC, you sound like if the MC destroyed your city, killed all your family, spit on your face or something worse xD

PD: they also felt that they had betrayed him, that's why utaha started to cry when she told him the news

Contreras1991 said:


He will have a plan b

FinalFlash18 said:


Also,
Eriri: "Shut up, you sneaky long haired witch!"
Utaha: "That's Ms. Kato at this point"

Hahaha lmfao. What a savage she is XD

GD1551 said:


Then why does he need Utaha then? If he truly isn't trying to use their names, why must she be on the project? Or the blonde girl either?



Secondly I don't have a "grudge" against the MC, just from my PoV he's not a good guy. Also by stay on I mean stay in the "blessing software group", and yes I know it's not his fault they mixed feelings into the work, but the only reason they came on board the project was because of feelings. If it was purely business, they would have never taken on that amateur hour project and he knew this.

Also, I'm not surprised they felt they betrayed him, they like him a lot, maybe even love that guy (I don't even know why) but they made their choice knowing fully well that he isn't worth wasting their time on but their feelings compel them to feel bad for him. It's not about me "forcing love", I don't even understand why they like this guy in the first place, but it's about me using their love to his advantage and not budging an inch when it comes to maybe exploring their feelings.

RandomCritic said:
I am disappointed on many people around the web that had commented on this episode.
Bashing Utaha and Eririr.
Calling them traitors...
But I believe they are just using the fanaticism to judge and flame... instead of viewing things on all parties' perspectives.
You guys (These people) are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Tomoya is a guy with a lineal type of thinking and because of his selfish desired he dragged to Pro creators that could grow into pro for a silly child project. They went along with him because they cared for the guy and took the chance to try to win his affection. But then Katou megumi shows up. The whole deal of the project is Katou megumi, all Tomoya can think is Katou Megumi; even the name of the circle is Named Megumi soft (although this was accidental) Everything wa smegumi this megumi that. This is why Utaha and Eriri fought so hard to win Tomoya's affections because all he thinks about is Megumi Megumi Megumi. So tell me? Its is fair? It is fair to continue on a project that is all about one girl when they are professionals that have to think of their future? Sure, i do not approve of the method they used but still it is not fair for them to continue on on a silly project if they are going to loose in the end. Tomoya with his little thing drag them back to archiving their most potential and they went along because they thought they had a chance to win the guy's heart. But it was all a loosing battle. Megumi won in the end. And what's left of Utaha and Eriri is their future. So they need to focus on that. Tomoya's project is just a child project dream, it is like any project high school kids think to dream and archive, but those projects always get canceled when life throws them unique and better opportunities for their future. I know, because I am a game and animation designer. In a sense this is not betrayal... its just maturing and move along into what's more important. Even if they finished Tomoya's game, it was just a game sell on a comikete not at a professional level for a company. Sure that Akane bitch brainwashed and lured them stealing them away from Tomoya but in a sense it helped them grow more professional. Tell me, would you all keep fighting a loosing battle? Tomoya did not love Eriri nor Utaha... the only thing in his mind was Megumi. Utaha and Eriri had nothing to win. So moving on is their best choice. You all blame Eriri and Utaha... but Tomoya is also at fault for being stupidly dense and not being clear with them since the beginning. So do not blame those girls before looking at all parties' perspective.

GD1551 said:


Then why does he need Utaha then? If he truly isn't trying to use their names, why must she be on the project? Or the blonde girl either?



Secondly I don't have a "grudge" against the MC, just from my PoV he's not a good guy. Also by stay on I mean stay in the "blessing software group", and yes I know it's not his fault they mixed feelings into the work, but the only reason they came on board the project was because of feelings. If it was purely business, they would have never taken on that amateur hour project and he knew this.

Also, I'm not surprised they felt they betrayed him, they like him a lot, maybe even love that guy (I don't even know why) but they made their choice knowing fully well that he isn't worth wasting their time on but their feelings compel them to feel bad for him. It's not about me "forcing love", I don't even understand why they like this guy in the first place, but it's about me using their love to his advantage and not budging an inch when it comes to maybe exploring their feelings.

Tamikus said:
what i learned from the Light Novel >.>

Contreras1991 said:


Like I said, he picked them because he is a fan of their works, and because they are his friends, and MC respected both of them because of that. In season 1 when Utaha asked why he picked only girls, he said it was just a coincidence that all the good creators that he knew (and that are his friends) are women

Again MC is not some kind of evil mastermind that uses everyone to his purposes, like a cold blooded bastard, at least, is not that kind of anime or story. This is one of the reasons why many people didn't like this forced drama that is happening in this season

So im telling you why everyone is saying that Utaha snd Eriri are traitors, and clearly it was not for take a golden opportunity, everyone agrees that is good for them ( still many people here dont understand why they choose to work with someone that treats them like slaves), but is the way how they did it. They not only hurt MC in the process , but they also hurt Katou ( she was pissed with MC because secrets, and she enjoyed being with the group, so she will be pissed) and Michiru

funnyRunny said:

I don't read the LN, but if it's true.....God bless the this anime!