Razastarr said: This is untrue. Plenty of artists wish to be understood. Take for instance Vladimir Nabokov:I disagree.About the first quote,one of the first things I came to understand about art is that the creators express themselves and they do not care at all if they'll be understood or not.If they really cared,they would state their intentions at some point,unless they perceive their works as riddles (I haven't seen authorial intent openly available anywhere-this is different from easy-to-understand themes).In short,art is a way of expression for the artist and a source of emotion and thought for the audience.I believe,that's how it is intented to be. Nabokov said: Lolita is famous, not I. I am an obscure, doubly obscure, novelist with an unpronounceable name. Or Anthony Burgess: Burgess said: I first published the novella A Clockwork Orange in 1962, which ought to be far enough in the past for it to be erased from the world’s literary memory. It refuses to be erased, however, and for this the film version of the book made by Stanley Kubrick may be held chiefly responsible. I should myself be glad to disown it for various reasons, but this is not permitted. I recieve mail from students who try to write theses about it, or requests from Japanese dramaturges to turn it into a sort of Noh play. It seems likely to survive, while other works of mine that I value more bite the dust. This is not an unusual experience for an artist. Rachmaninoff used to groan because he was known mainly for a Prelude in C Sharp Minor which he wrote as a boy, while the works of his maturity never got into the programmes. Kids cut their pianistic teeth on a minuet in G which Beethoven composed only so that he could detest it. I have to go on living with A Clockwork Orange, and thismeans I have a sort of authorial duty to it. I have a very special duty to it in the United States, and I had better now explain what this duty is. His applications to Rachmaninoff and other composers such as Beethoven are equally valid to this discussion. Plenty of these artists, composers, writers, want to be understood. That is why they say those things, why write introductions to their own works, and why they write in general. The very idea that artists want to express themselves means that their expression wishes to be understood in a particular way. It is ignorant to assume that an author releases a work and is immensely satisfied when a reader takes it in a direction he perceives as incorrect. The extreme example would be for someone to respond to my post with an interpretation of my words as completely different than what I am writing at this very moment. Just because an artist does not state his intention does not mean that he simply allows for people to interpret a work as he or she sees fit. In fact, I prefer that world. In the world where an author is continuously allowed to reshape the work in question in order to be intended in a certain way, we get results such as J.K. Rowling continuously coming out with new information about the Harry Potter franchise and how it should be imagined. Razastarr said: That is the definition of discarding authorial intent. Authorial intent does not exist because the author has a will to express himself. Intent exists because there is an interpretation of a work that is compatible with the author. That interpretation need not be static. It can be flexible and can be expanded upon in certain ways, but if you are saying that intent is only the writer's self-expression, then you are indeed discarding it.This is the key phrase.I'm not discarding authorial intent,I'm saying it's there just for the sake of the author's will to express himself and not for us to understand.If we do,that's good,if we don't,I don't think the artist really cares.A good example is FLCL.It's been widely (and by me) perceived as a coming of age story.It fits.But there is no clear clue or creator's confirmation that this metaphor is really the point of the show. Works like FLCL are certainly up to interpretation, but once again intent is an inherent part of the work. The author manifests himself and the reader understands his intent as a result of experiencing the work. Authorial intent is not necessarily an interview or a public statement, otherwise we would have never conceived of what is known as author's intent ever in the existence of art. This is part of a more broader study of literary criticism, but I would recommend Poulet's Phenomenology of Reading, as that aptly explains how the author's meaning and intent manifests itself inside the reader. Razastarr said: I dislike reader response theory. I think it speaks common sense logic but has nothing of value to say. More dangerously it suggests that all that matters is a reader's only interpretation, which I think discards not only the importance of authorial intent, but encourages dangerous reading where people are allowed certain interpretations.As for the second quote,if a certain work makes me feel or think something that was not intended by the creator,how is it wrong or harmful in any way?It's about perspective is all I'm saying. For instance, let us take FLCL as an example. I could feasibly argue from a Freudian/Oedipal perspective that Naota's attraction to Haruka is a result of him not having a mother in his life, and thus he is attracted to Haruka much like how he would be attracted to his mother. Him "killing" his father in the 3rd/4th episode (I forget which one), is a reference to Oedipus killing his father Laius and then falling into a romantic affair with his "mother." This is an example of over analysis. I would argue that it is a useful analysis, in that the Freudian reading is something that could add perspective and depth to the anime, but it is still something that is out of bounds because there is little evidence outside of pure happenstance and literary parallels. An even greater example of over analysis that I would argue is unhelpful is speculation post-anime. If I say that the last moment in the anime, where the guitar plays a note before fading away, is evidence that Haruka will return and Naota and her will get married, then that is over analysis. It is conflating a single event to be something massive to fit an interpretation that is inconsistent with what we perceive in the show. Note the difference between the two types of analysis. The former I would argue is largely irrelevant but decently interesting, but should not drive our understanding of the show, while the latter is simply ridiculous and should never be accepted under any circumstances. Interpretations can be wrong and while there is no uniform pattern or method to interpret a work, I highly caution the idea that nobody can ever be wrong when they read and try to understand a work. Razastarr said: That is not over analysis. That is just simple analysis. What I am talking about is taking a show and crafting an interpretation based on over reaching certain elements, exaggerating the importance of certain factors, or blatantly making up interpretations for the sake of making them up.For overanalysis in general.Of course,there are works that provide much more food for thought than others.But is it really wrong for someone to,for example,find ideas about family values in DBZ?Is this an overanalysis and should someone come out and say "What are you talking about?DBZ is a show about Super Saiyans and kamehameha waves"? |
| Oh boy,that's a lot.There doesn't seem to be any common ground between us.Even so,I'll write some things just for the sake of discussion (which I love btw,regardless of our conflicting views). First of all,I don't see how the quotes of Nabokov and Burgess contribute to your argument.I can't see where this "cry" for understanding is.The one by Nabokov is in my opinion completely unrelated.As for the one by Burgess,what I can see is only a frustration because the audience valued works he considered superior to his supposed pinnacle less than he thought they deserved.Personally,I find this absurd.You cannot evaluate your own work.It's like me handing in a paper which is ultimately rejected,and then blame those who rejected it,claiming it had more value than they gave it.That may be true in some sense,but my job is to hand in the paper and their job is to evaluate it.It's their opinion that matters,not mine.Another example is doing your work in a way your boss or your customer doesn't appreciate.You may think that this is the right way to go,but if it doesn't yield results you have to adapt or continue doing it,despite the consequences. Moving on,writing an introduction is not a statement of intent.If you really want your audience to understand your themes perfectly,then you publish a step-by-step guide to go with your work.And no,this is not spoon-feeding,because expecting someone to understand exactly what you're thinking is crazy,as no one thinks in the exact same way you do.Even psychologists can't read minds.Imagine doing that to a person you've never even seen up close. As for the creator's satisfaction,this has nothing to do with the audience.If it is a commercial work,when someone pays for it,then he/she reserves the right to make his/her own judgement,come to his/her own conclusions and generally do as he/she pleases,as long as it's within the terms of the sale.If on the other hand it's not a commercial work,it's the decision of the artist to (literally) expose himself to the public.You can't have the cake and eat it too.And certainly you can't dictate or limit people's thinking.Regarding Rowling,I haven't read anything else except for the main series,so I will not express an opinion. Authorial intent.Not being a native speaker,I probably misinterpreted the verb "discard".I recognise it,I know it's there,but it has nothing to do with me as a recipient.If I grasp it (or rather I think I have),all good,if not,I'll probably find something else in the work in question.The bottomline is,I'll get something. Moving to the next paragraph,I cannot take seriously statements like "people are allowed certain interpretations".Who's to ban anyone from thinking in any possible way?What is this,a fascist regime? Let's take your FLCL case (that's why I love this anime).Indeed your first example is a really good thought.If it's your own work,I have to congratulate you.I fail to see how this is overanalysis though.It's an excellent observation and certainly fits with the show's perceived themes (sexuality being one of the most prominent according to the common interpretation).I don't understand your "lack of evidence" argument too.What definitive evidence is there to suggest that our original perception of the anime as a metaphor is in fact correct?Your other example is in my opinion far fetched,but if someone,for their own reasons,wants to think that way,I don't see any reason to stop them. Lastly,my last example may not be correct (I haven't watched DBZ in 15 years).In the context the term "overanalysis" is used in this thread,I take it it means searching for something that isn't there.What I was trying to say,is that it's okay to take a "simple" show and assign it a meaning or importance.Off the top of my head,if I said Texhnolyze (not a simple show,just to be clear) can be a good representation of a person's internal struggles,with the city being the actual person,would that be what is termed here as overanalysis? |
RazastarrJan 19, 2016 1:35 PM
| The day anime fans stop critiquing anime as if it some thesis paper for an advanced degree, the world will become a little bit happier. |
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Megacchi said: The day anime fans stop critiquing anime as if it some thesis paper for an advanced degree, the world will become a little bit happier. Actually, the world is more fun when you think deeply and engage in discussions. Escapism is boring. Discussions rock. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Razastarr said: Both Burgess and Nabokov are great examples of people who would look down on people who believe in over interpretation or excessive interpretations. Nabokov's quote is a little bit out of place, but it fits into the greater context of who he was an author. His most famous novel Lolita earned much fame, but he as an author, along with what he believed and what his primary points were are often forgotten.First of all,I don't see how the quotes of Nabokov and Burgess contribute to your argument.I can't see where this "cry" for understanding is.The one by Nabokov is in my opinion completely unrelated.As for the one by Burgess,what I can see is only a frustration because the audience valued works he considered superior to his supposed pinnacle less that he thought they deserved. The novel Lolita is also a perfect example of when people interpreting things incorrectly cast a negative light on an author who was perhaps one of the greatest prose stylists of the modern era. The idea that people somehow conflate Nabokov's novel to be glorifying or in any way being accepting of pedophilia is one of the greatest arguments against readers having the full freedom to a "truthful" interpretation, because it demonstrates how unreliable readers are with regards to their own ability to intelligent analyze and interpret a work. Razastarr said: Why can you not evaluate your own work? That is utterly absurd. Yes, from a commercial standpoint, it is up to the audience to decide if they want to purchase a product, but it is not true in any scenario that an author is not afforded the right to evaluation that every reader is allowed to. What makes the author so special that he is suddenly incapable of reviewing his work? The work exists in the public sphere upon it being published and the author is a part of that public. They are certainly afforded the luxury of self-evaluation. He undoubtedly has the most important and, arguably, relevant things to say.Personally,I find this absurd.You cannot evaluate your own work.It's like me handing in a paper which is ultimately rejected,and then blame those who rejected it,claiming it had more value than they gave it.That may be true in some sense,but my job is to hand in the paper and their job is to evaluate it.It's their opinion that matters,not mine.Another example is doing your work in a way your boss or your customer doesn't appreciate.You may think that this is the right way to go,but if it doesn't yield results you have to adapt or continue doing it,despite the consequences. Razastarr said: Once again, I would encourage reading a little about more about authorial intent before discussing this too extensively. Intent is not whether the author comes out and explicitly tells you things. Intent manifests itself in the work itself, whether you like it or not. Once again, on the simplest levels, a novel exists because it is meant to be read as a novel. It is written in a certain language because it is meant to be read in that particular language. From there, we can go deeper, but those are the simplest examples of intent.Moving on,writing an introduction is not a statement of intent.If you really want your audience to understand your themes perfectly,then you publish a step-by-step guide to go with your work.And no,this is not spoon-feeding,because expecting someone to understand exactly what you're thinking is crazy,as no one thinks in the exact same way you do.Even psychologists can't read minds.Imagine doing that to a person you've never even seen up close. In addition, there have been authors who provided guidelines to their works. Take a look at James Joyce's seminal work, Ulysses, where Joyce published a schema when he was encouraged to because people were concerned if people would not understand the work in question. But even then, it is silly to expect an author to spell out a work for you. This is not a matter of spoon feeding or a matter of it being impossible to read someone else's mind. A work often has very clear lines of intent. Yes, they can be flexible and there can be a multitude of interpretations, but what is the likelier interpretation, that FLCL is primarily a coming of age story that features mecha, or is mainly a story about Mamami getting over her boyfriend? Which is the superior interpretation? The intent of the anime makes it clear to us that the former is almost certainly the right answer. Razastarr said: This is an extreme view on my argument. But at its core, yes, it is dangerous to allow every conceivable interpretation of a work for the simple fact that not all interpretations are the same. They are not all with merit, they are not all well evidenced. By Argumentum Ad Infinitum, if we followed your logic, we must conclude that all interpretations are equally worth the same merit, which is ludicrous.Moving to the next paragraph,I cannot take seriously statements like "people are allowed certain interpretations".Who's to ban anyone from thinking in any possible way?What is this,a fascist regime? If that is the case, there would be no great readings of Hamlet. Harold Bloom would have no greater say in Shakespeare than the average high school student. All great readings of Milton, Dante, Chaucer, Cervantes, would be ubiquitous and equally worthy. There would be no point in even having different translations, because since all translations are equal in merit, there is nothing to distinguish one from another. They are all just good. There are no great translations, no bad translations, as translations are fundamentally interpretative. Razastarr said: Because it is obvious that the show is indeed a metaphor. People can choose to dislike the metaphor or find something wrong with it, but it is extremely difficult for anyone to levy a real legitimate criticism that FLCL is not a coming of age story. By all objective events in the show, we must come a similar or analogous conclusion of some caliber. The story features a young boy who, even if we do not understand the phallic symbolism that emerges from his forehead, obviously struggles with women, sexuality, his romantic feelings, and the fears of growing up. These are undeniable facts present in the show and they fall directly in line with the definition of a bildungsroman. To argue that FLCL is not a coming of age story, no matter how much you like it or dislike it, would be, hence, arguing against its intended effect.Let's take your FLCL case (that's why I love this anime).Indeed your first example is a really good thought.If it's your own work,I have to congratulate you.I fail to see how this is overanalysis though.It's an excellent observation and certainly fits with the show's perceived themes (sexuality being one of the most prominent according to the common interpretation).I don't understand your "lack of evidence" argument too.What definitive evidence is there to suggest that our original perception of the anime as a metaphor is in fact correct?Your other example is in my opinion far fetched,but if someone,for their own reasons,wants to think that way,I don't see any reason to stop them. And I do see something wrong with people being far fetched and reaching too far. Are they truly appreciating a work, or are they appreciating something that they have conceived that is not consistent with that which they enjoy? Once again, if we were to be naive and assume that the only metric in this world that matters is enjoyment, then we may agree to this. But I do not believe in that world. Not all interpretations are equal, and far reaching interpretations are dangerous because they do not represent the work as it is and as it stands. Well evidenced interpretations are always welcome, especially in shows that are ambiguous, but far reaching interpretations with no evidence are almost never a good thing. |
| Analysis develops understanding of a show far better. Why do people hate when others go beneath the surface meaning of a show? Wouldn't it seem logical to understand a show you liked more by applying some form of analysis to it? |
| Hmmm,interesting. -First point,Nabokov.I don't necesarrily disagree,but when you publish a controversial work you have to bear the consequences.In no way am I arguing that this is fair or anything like that.Quite the contrary.It's just how the world works. -Second point,self evaluation.Of course everyone is entitled to self evaluation,but ultimately he cannot complain because someone doesn't appreciate their work.Because he is not the ultimate judge.I think I made that quite clear. -Third point,authorial intent.Personally,I find nothing wrong with the little I know about New Criticism,but I must admit that I have to delve much deeper to have a full understanding of authorial intent and literary criticism in general.Sadly,I lack the most important resource for such an endeavor.Time.I'll keep it in mind for future research though.Also,I'm not ignoring the lines.If they are clear,they must be easy to grasp,however they're only pointing towards a direction.But even if they're not picked up,that's still fine.About FLCL,I'd say the first,but a friend of mine could say the second (or even both).He is entitled to choose that option even if he doesn't manage to convince me,because I,with my own reasoning,will find his explanation lacking.To him,personally,it might seem sensible. -Fourth point,I'm the last person to say that all opinions are or have to be treated as equals.I'm merely saying that they absolutely have to be heard and every person should have the right to defend them,competently or not.Yes there are opinions who are (or seem) better evidenced,but this doesn't mean the rest mustn't be heard. -Fifth point,about FLCL,there are clues pointing in that way,but as with the aforementioned lines of intent,they may or may not be picked up and they point towards a direction.I consider these clues different than definitive evidence.It's not a fact that the show really is this kind of metaphor (and I believe it is),it's a (very) possible explanation. -Sixth point,why does the reason someone appreciates something matters?And what has enjoyment to do with anything?I'm talking about someone finding meaning and emotions in a work of art,even if they don't fully understand the creator's intent.It's not just enjoyment. Lastly,anything without evidence is never a good thing.But you can just ignore it. |
| People can analyze what they want to analyze, if they like to do this. But one's analysis is not an irrefutable truth. Also, you can "overanalyze" simple things and find them good. Personally I like to analyze (not that much) what I watch to know why I liked or disliked it. |
| Too many anime fans shut off their brain completely when watching anime... and are more often under critical than over critical. |
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
ixaa said: I usually love analyzing things and reading analysis's myself but sometimes it sounds like people are just pulling things out of their ass, trying to make a show sound super deep like that time when people thought SnK being set in Europe/Germany had some amazing meaning behind it but in reality, the author simply thought "Germany is cool" Assuming you don't mean people who go around looking down on others for not realizing the depth of their favorite masterpiece, I fail to see what's wrong with any of that. If people derive enjoyment and appreciate the show more for something they saw in it, let them. bbl People can analyze things how much and however they want to. I just find it stupid to overanalyze and twist something that the author didn't intend, especially when the author confirms something to be true/untrue, rendering all further complexity of an analysis useless. People can bullshit all they want about how snk being set in Germany has some superficial and deep meaning behind it, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to what the author said and intended, which is "Germany is cool" |
ixaa said: Assuming you don't mean people who go around looking down on others for not realizing the depth of their favorite masterpiece, I fail to see what's wrong with any of that. If people derive enjoyment and appreciate the show more for something they saw in it, let them. bbl People can analyze things how much and however they want to. I just find it stupid to overanalyze and twist something that the author didn't intend, especially when the author confirms something to be true/untrue, rendering all further complexity of an analysis useless. People can bullshit all they want about how snk being set in Germany has some superficial and deep meaning behind it, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to what the author said and intended, which is "Germany is cool" Once an author claims something is not important, it's probably not important. Occam's Razor - the religious aesthetics in NGE are for coolness factor. |
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| speculashit, assumpshit, and imagination is always good when watching an anime/reading manga, but you take those faction too serious TC. More serious art/manga like one piece, have wider theory and story, and it is fine to debate over a theory, or even stay at the surface and become so called 'anti-depth' Just ignore those 'anti-depth' faction |
Razastarr said: Just because every opinion deserves to be heard does not mean that they should all be given the same magnitude of attention. If someone who is an expert in the field says something, I will listen far more closely than if I read a high school or even college student's paper on that topic.I'm the last person to say that all opinions are or have to be treated as equals.I'm merely saying that they absolutely have to be heard and every person should have the right to defend them,competently or not.Yes there are opinions who are (or seem) better evidenced,but this doesn't mean the rest mustn't be heard. |
omfgplzstop said: Megacchi said: The day anime fans stop critiquing anime as if it some thesis paper for an advanced degree, the world will become a little bit happier. Oh wow, you're actually one of the people I was talking about in the OP. Mind explaining why you think this way? This is entertainment. It's not made for people to stress out on and get into heated discussions. The world already has enough to worry about. Just sit back and enjoy instead of micro-analyzing every thing in these anime. |
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Megacchi said: But we enjoy doing this, so we're already doing what you said, enjoying it. Nothing wrong with discussion as long as people don't get angry and like like fools.omfgplzstop said: Oh wow, you're actually one of the people I was talking about in the OP. Mind explaining why you think this way? This is entertainment. It's not made for people to stress out on and get into heated discussions. The world already has enough to worry about. Just sit back and enjoy instead of micro-analyzing every thing in these anime. |
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merryfistmas said: Megacchi said: But we enjoy doing this, so we're already doing what you said, enjoying it. Nothing wrong with discussion as long as people don't get angry and like like fools.This is entertainment. It's not made for people to stress out on and get into heated discussions. The world already has enough to worry about. Just sit back and enjoy instead of micro-analyzing every thing in these anime. I don't think anyone is going to seriously discuss anime unless they love it and enjoy analyzing it. Pretty much anyone I met who knew how to explain his opinion cared more about exploring his favourite subject rather than proving himself right. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Ultimately, anime are stories and many times, authors will leave things open to interpretation. As a storyteller myself, I prefer consuming stories that do have a deeper meaning, but leave things open to interpretation. If someone wants to consume a story and dive deeper into the meanings even if the author didn't intend for there to be deeper meanings, that's fine. Sometimes authors write about things and don't realize that their subconscious might have been influenced by a deeper meaning to things without the conscious mind realizing it. Here's an example, I've written some fiction in the past. When I was writing a novel at one point, I would just grind out chapter after chapter while losing track of the time due to having an overflow of creativity being released. On the surface, it seemed like I would just be writing a simple story…but then when I go through the editing phase, I realized what I was writing had a much deeper meaning than what I consciously thought at the time. I suppose some of you are probably thinking, "where is this asshat going with this?" The point I'm trying to make is sometimes the writer/creator doesn't realize that the story they are creating has a deeper meaning because they don't consider what they were subconsciously thinking about at the time they created it. So I don't think there really is such a thing as "overanalyzing" an anime and while things can be pointed out that the author didn't intend, the fact of the matter is the author created something that can be open to interpretation. Putting my "under analysis of over analysis critique" aside, I do think posters shouting down other posters for "overanalyzing" is a very unhealthy practice. These are probably the same sort of people that were convinced the the world was flat during the 14th-15th Century. In the words of Bill Laswell, "people are afraid of things they don't understand. They don't know how to relate. It threatens their security, their existence, their career, image." The point I'm trying to make is some people might be afraid that their favorite anime might have a deep, ingrained philosophy that goes beyond their understanding, so they find it easier to shout down the critics that are "diving too deep" on something that they feel should be considered "simple." |
| You shouldn't just over analyze an anime because most are made just for sure entertainment and that's why I watch anime. If you need to analyze something to death, read Shakespeare. (which originally was meant just to be entertainment in the first place.) |
Toucanbird said: Ultimately, anime are stories and many times, authors will leave things open to interpretation. As a storyteller myself, I prefer consuming stories that do have a deeper meaning, but leave things open to interpretation. If someone wants to consume a story and dive deeper into the meanings even if the author didn't intend for there to be deeper meanings, that's fine. Sometimes authors write about things and don't realize that their subconscious might have been influenced by a deeper meaning to things without the conscious mind realizing it. Here's an example, I've written some fiction in the past. When I was writing a novel at one point, I would just grind out chapter after chapter while losing track of the time due to having an overflow of creativity being released. On the surface, it seemed like I would just be writing a simple story…but then when I go through the editing phase, I realized what I was writing had a much deeper meaning than what I consciously thought at the time. I suppose some of you are probably thinking, "where is this asshat going with this?" The point I'm trying to make is sometimes the writer/creator doesn't realize that the story they are creating has a deeper meaning because they don't consider what they were subconsciously thinking about at the time they created it. So I don't think there really is such a thing as "overanalyzing" an anime and while things can be pointed out that the author didn't intend, the fact of the matter is the author created something that can be open to interpretation. Putting my "under analysis of over analysis critique" aside, I do think posters shouting down other posters for "overanalyzing" is a very unhealthy practice. These are probably the same sort of people that were convinced the the world was flat during the 14th-15th Century. In the words of Bill Laswell, "people are afraid of things they don't understand. They don't know how to relate. It threatens their security, their existence, their career, image." The point I'm trying to make is some people might be afraid that their favorite anime might have a deep, ingrained philosophy that goes beyond their understanding, so they find it easier to shout down the critics that are "diving too deep" on something that they feel should be considered "simple." 'It's all open to interpretation' feels like a technique for shutting down discussions. Everything is open to interpretation. People can interpenetrate 'I'm sorry' in various ways. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Toucanbird said: Ultimately, anime are stories and many times, authors will leave things open to interpretation. As a storyteller myself, I prefer consuming stories that do have a deeper meaning, but leave things open to interpretation. If someone wants to consume a story and dive deeper into the meanings even if the author didn't intend for there to be deeper meanings, that's fine. Sometimes authors write about things and don't realize that their subconscious might have been influenced by a deeper meaning to things without the conscious mind realizing it. Here's an example, I've written some fiction in the past. When I was writing a novel at one point, I would just grind out chapter after chapter while losing track of the time due to having an overflow of creativity being released. On the surface, it seemed like I would just be writing a simple story…but then when I go through the editing phase, I realized what I was writing had a much deeper meaning than what I consciously thought at the time. I suppose some of you are probably thinking, "where is this asshat going with this?" The point I'm trying to make is sometimes the writer/creator doesn't realize that the story they are creating has a deeper meaning because they don't consider what they were subconsciously thinking about at the time they created it. So I don't think there really is such a thing as "overanalyzing" an anime and while things can be pointed out that the author didn't intend, the fact of the matter is the author created something that can be open to interpretation. Putting my "under analysis of over analysis critique" aside, I do think posters shouting down other posters for "overanalyzing" is a very unhealthy practice. These are probably the same sort of people that were convinced the the world was flat during the 14th-15th Century. In the words of Bill Laswell, "people are afraid of things they don't understand. They don't know how to relate. It threatens their security, their existence, their career, image." The point I'm trying to make is some people might be afraid that their favorite anime might have a deep, ingrained philosophy that goes beyond their understanding, so they find it easier to shout down the critics that are "diving too deep" on something that they feel should be considered "simple." 'It's all open to interpretation' feels like a technique for shutting down discussions. Everything is open to interpretation. People can interpenetrate 'I'm sorry' in various ways. On the contrary, I think leaving things open for interpretation generates more discussion. Whenever something is open for interpretation, it allows for a multitude of individual perspectives to analyze it and interpret it based on their own thoughts and experiences, generating debate amongst people who want to explain in their own words what they think the author is trying to convey. The downside of leaving "all things open to interpretation" is that it allows for a story to be warped to a point that goes beyond the original intention for creating the story in the first place. It also leads to in-fighting amongst people who are closed-minded and feel like their interpretation is the only one that matters (aka. about 95% of all MAL discussions). |
Toucanbird said: TheBrainintheJar said: 'It's all open to interpretation' feels like a technique for shutting down discussions. Everything is open to interpretation. People can interpenetrate 'I'm sorry' in various ways. On the contrary, I think leaving things open for interpretation generates more discussion. Whenever something is open for interpretation, it allows for a multitude of individual perspectives to analyze it and interpret it based on their own thoughts and experiences, generating debate amongst people who want to explain in their own words what they think the author is trying to convey. The downside of leaving "all things open to interpretation" is that it allows for a story to be warped to a point that goes beyond the original intention for creating the story in the first place. It also leads to in-fighting amongst people who are closed-minded and feel like their interpretation is the only one that matters (aka. about 95% of all MAL discussions). The best stories are those that have deliberate themes. By that, I mean the authors choose specific themes that the anime revolve around. I don't want easy answers, but if I ask 'what it's about?' and I get 'it's open to interpretation' then I conclude it's about nothing. If it can mean anything, it means nothing. A story needs a set of themes to revolve around. The best stories give you a variety of perspective and makes you ask questions, but you need to know what subject you're questioning. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
merryfistmas said: Megacchi said: But we enjoy doing this, so we're already doing what you said, enjoying it. Nothing wrong with discussion as long as people don't get angry and like like fools.This is entertainment. It's not made for people to stress out on and get into heated discussions. The world already has enough to worry about. Just sit back and enjoy instead of micro-analyzing every thing in these anime. I just don't see the enjoyment in arguing such relatively insignificant things. At the end of the day, what does it really matter? |
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Megacchi said: It doesn't matter, just like watching anime doesn't matter, it is an enjoyable activity to pass the time until we die. You might not enjoy it and that's fine, but some people do.merryfistmas said: But we enjoy doing this, so we're already doing what you said, enjoying it. Nothing wrong with discussion as long as people don't get angry and like like fools. I just don't see the enjoyment in arguing such relatively insignificant things. At the end of the day, what does it really matter? |
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merryfistmas said: Megacchi said: It doesn't matter, just like watching anime doesn't matter, it is an enjoyable activity to pass the time until we die. You might not enjoy it and that's fine, but some people do.I just don't see the enjoyment in arguing such relatively insignificant things. At the end of the day, what does it really matter? Nothing matters to you once you're dead, but while we're alive it all matters. SO LET'S DISCUSS IT [KILL LA KILL TITLES]. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| If a show is lacklustre at its core, this is not a reason to not enjoy it. However, it is reason to criticise it. Something can be enjoyed and criticised, and enjoyment doesnt save something from criticism. Ygm? |
 ~Appilesh~ |
| There's a reason why I don't have discussions with certain users on here about the theme or a underlining message of a particular anime. In the end, people will see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. Even when all is presented that still doesn't mean they are going to like how the message was executed or what the message was even about. It's not all that serious if people don't see what you see. I just think it's stupid when people call something "overanalyzing" or "pretentious". |
KonaKoffeeFeb 6, 2016 4:23 PM
 Banner credit to @turnip |
| by the way, I feel a texhnolyze argument coming up. Ima go get popcorn before it starts.... CapitalistGod said: Though I agree with you there are some shows that are not cut out for analyzing and if you do it, it enters that "over-analyzing" territory. For example, hypothetically speaking, someone analyzed the deeper meaning of High School of the Dead. That's just pushing it. someone told me lucky star's theme was about a government conspiracy that we're unsubconciousy a part of. So yea, there is such a thing as overanalyzing. lol |
KonaKoffeeFeb 6, 2016 4:33 PM
| Banner credit to @turnip |
KonaKoffee4 said: There's a reason why I don't have discussions with certain users on here about the theme or a underlining message of a particular anime. In the end, people will see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. Even when all is presented that still doesn't mean they are going to like how the message was executed or what the message was even about. It's not all that serious if people don't see what you see. I just think it's stupid when people call something "overanalyzing" or "pretentious". Even if I don't change my view of an anime, it's still interesting to hear what people liked about it. I haven't changed my view of Texhnolyze despite all the discussions, but I got a better idea of why people like it. It helped me learn a little, and I'm glad for it. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: KonaKoffee4 said: There's a reason why I don't have discussions with certain users on here about the theme or a underlining message of a particular anime. In the end, people will see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. Even when all is presented that still doesn't mean they are going to like how the message was executed or what the message was even about. It's not all that serious if people don't see what you see. I just think it's stupid when people call something "overanalyzing" or "pretentious". Even if I don't change my view of an anime, it's still interesting to hear what people liked about it. I haven't changed my view of Texhnolyze despite all the discussions, but I got a better idea of why people like it. It helped me learn a little, and I'm glad for it. Yeah that's the thing, not everyone will like what you like or see what you see. I would never try to change anyone to enjoy something that they didn't, but at least you were able to converse about and not throw the old "Ew this is pretentious crap, you suck" thing. Lol |
| Banner credit to @turnip |
| There sure are a lot of people correlating the concept of analyzation to being "anti-fun brigade" and criticism to "seeing only the bad". smdh ppl |
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| It's all subjective so it don't matter. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: It's all subjective so it don't matter. So why watch anime? Why be a part of a community that's into discussing anime? If it's all subjective how do you determine what you like and what you don't? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: black1blade said: It's all subjective so it don't matter. So why watch anime? Why be a part of a community that's into discussing anime? If it's all subjective how do you determine what you like and what you don't? Exactly so it's subjective meaning that I like X show and you may not or vice versa. People can look as much as they want to into a show. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: TheBrainintheJar said: So why watch anime? Why be a part of a community that's into discussing anime? If it's all subjective how do you determine what you like and what you don't? Exactly so it's subjective meaning that I like X show and you may not or vice versa. People can look as much as they want to into a show. Isn't discussing the difference between 'I like X because I like it' and 'I found hints of religion, sexuality and depression in X, therefore I liked it and y'all goats should too' the whole point of this thread? Obviously everything is subjective, but imposing your own personal views and takes on a show (hence 'OVERanalyzing') to prove its quality to others is a thing that happens, and worth talking about. Being entitled to your own opinion is one of the wonderful perks of being human, but critique and analysis with the intent to find out what could be considered to be objectively 'good' or 'bad' has every right to exist. Authorial intent, apparent or perceived, should always be one of the anchors of a worthwhile discussion concerning artistic quality; 'pulling things out of your ass' to justify an idea that is by definition already sound inside your head, on the contrary, doesn't contribute as much. Quoting a favorite of mine, opinion is a collaborative effort. Ain't that great. |
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JoePanichelli said: black1blade said: Exactly so it's subjective meaning that I like X show and you may not or vice versa. People can look as much as they want to into a show. Isn't discussing the difference between 'I like X because I like it' and 'I found hints of religion, sexuality and depression in X, therefore I liked it and y'all goats should too' the whole point of this thread? Obviously everything is subjective, but imposing your own personal views and takes on a show (hence 'OVERanalyzing') to prove its quality to others is a thing that happens, and worth talking about. Being entitled to your own opinion is one of the wonderful perks of being human, but critique and analysis with the intent to find out what could be considered to be objectively 'good' or 'bad' has every right to exist. Authorial intent, apparent or perceived, should always be one of the anchors of a worthwhile discussion concerning artistic quality; 'pulling things out of your ass' to justify an idea that is by definition already sound inside your head, on the contrary, doesn't contribute as much. Quoting a favorite of mine, opinion is a collaborative effort. Ain't that great. I don't think people are entitled to their opinions. They have to earn them. An opinion without reasoning is pointless. I also don't understand this talk of 'imposing opinions'. I don't think anyone here has the power or the will to force others to think. We're just thinking out loud. I find that once we're scared people are out to change our minds, or we stop with thought terminating cliches discussion are more fruitful. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: I don't think people are entitled to their opinions. They have to earn them. An opinion without reasoning is pointless. I'd say this is true for discussing anime, but not for anime in general. I don't have time to gather my thoughts for reasoning while watching something. It's distracting and takes up brain space. I'll gather my thoughts just when the time calls for it. Until then, I just enjoy what I enjoy. |
AltoRoark99 said: TheBrainintheJar said: I don't think people are entitled to their opinions. They have to earn them. An opinion without reasoning is pointless. I'd say this is true for discussing anime, but not for anime in general. I don't have time to gather my thoughts for reasoning while watching something. It's distracting and takes up brain space. I'll gather my thoughts just when the time calls for it. Until then, I just enjoy what I enjoy. Wholly agree. What I meant by 'entitled' (might just be a poor choice of words on my part) is that you have every right to enjoy something without feeling forced to explain why. TheBrainintheJar said: I don't think people are entitled to their opinions. They have to earn them. An opinion without reasoning is pointless. I also don't understand this talk of 'imposing opinions'. I don't think anyone here has the power or the will to force others to think. We're just thinking out loud. I find that once we're scared people are out to change our minds, or we stop with thought terminating cliches discussion are more fruitful. Well, I sure as hell don't think brainwashing on anime tastes is anyone's goal. But I also find there's plenty of arguments which can basically be summed up as 'this thingy is a lot more intelligent and subtle and cool than you could ever imagine', and we keep reaching back to 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' relativist dead horse. We are thinking out loud alright. There are opinions that come off as imposing, and that has nothing to do with their intention nor their efficacy. Overanalyzing (i.e. elevating material by digging out deep themes and analogies which arguably weren't even there in the first place) usually tries to establish objective quality, hence reinforcing one's own point. Anyhow, I'm going off on a tangent here. I just dig discussing thought processes behind liking and disliking stuff, and I doubt MAL users can meddle with each other's brain. Always assumed polite conversations make room for growth. |
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| I really want to answer you, but I'm still stuck at finding my own definition of "Overanalyzing" an anime. Let's be philosophical for a minute. I think the thought, or the feeling, that someone is overanalyzing comes from a difference in opinions, or a incapacity to get someone's opinion. I'll toss an example : I really like this season's anime called Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash, but the pacing is super slow. I like it though because it takes the time to show us all the characters' feelings, and is not just actions. We really live with the characters. - Reviewer 1 Now, let's play the guy who totally hates the anime : Holy sh**, this anime is so boring. The pacing is so slow, I'm barely staying awake the whole 20 minutes. It's not that I don't like the drama, but it just goes on and on and on... We see 2 minutes of action and story development, then it drags some drama for the rest of the episode. - Reviewer 2 Reviewer 1 thinks that Reviewer 2 is overanalyzing, or should I say underanalyzing the anime because he doesn't get from where the anime's beauty comes from. Reviewer 2 thinks that Reviewer 1 overanalyzing the anime because, holy sh**, if people try to justify such a horrible pacing and that constant drama as something good, what has the world come to? OR Reviewer 1 DOESN'T think Reviewer 2 is underanalyzing, because he understands why he might be bored, and understands that drama might not be his cup of tea. He also get that the pacing might be too slow for some people, who's more interested in story development, and see what comes next. Reviewer 2 DOESN'T think Reviewer 1 is overanalyzing, because the drama is not that bad, and the slow pacing might give a sense of proximity with the characters. He gets that people sometimes aren't just looking for quick story development, and rather savor the anime instead of devouring it. In conclusion of this example, does "Overanalyzing" simply means "Not agreeing"? |
MasterHooverFeb 10, 2016 2:46 AM
MasterHoover said: I really want to answer you, but I'm still stuck at finding my own definition of "Overanalyzing" an anime. Let's be philosophical for a minute. I think the thought, or the feeling, that someone is overanalyzing comes from a difference in opinions, or a incapacity to get someone's opinion. I'll toss an example : I really like this season's anime called Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash, but the pacing is super slow. I like it though because it takes the time to show us all the characters' feelings, and is not just actions. We really live with the characters. - Reviewer 1 Now, let's play the guy who totally hates the anime : Holy sh**, this anime is so boring. The pacing is so slow, I'm barely staying awake the whole 20 minutes. It's not that I don't like the drama, but it just goes on and on and on... We see 2 minutes of action and story development, then it drags some drama for the rest of the episode. - Reviewer 2 Reviewer 1 thinks that Reviewer 2 is overanalyzing, or should I say underanalyzing the anime because he doesn't get from where the anime's beauty comes from. Reviewer 2 thinks that Reviewer 1 overanalyzing the anime because, holy sh**, if people try to justify such a horrible pacing and that constant drama as something good, what has the world come to? OR Reviewer 1 DOESN'T think Reviewer 2 is underanalyzing, because he understands why he might be bored, and understands that drama might not be his cup of tea. He also get that the pacing might be too slow for some people, who's more interested in story development, and see what comes next. Reviewer 2 DOESN'T think Reviewer 1 is overanalyzing, because the drama is not that bad, and the slow pacing might give a sense of proximity with the characters. He gets that people sometimes aren't just looking for quick story development, and rather savor the anime instead of devouring it. In conclusion of this example, does "Overanalyzing" simply means "Not agreeing"? I like the point you're making actually. Let's compare 'overanalysis' to how much you have to squint your eyes in order to see a certain theme/purpose/artistic merit in a product. Would you agree with me on that? Also, what is in your opinion the difference between a good reviewer and a poor one? |
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JoePanichelli said: AltoRoark99 said: I'd say this is true for discussing anime, but not for anime in general. I don't have time to gather my thoughts for reasoning while watching something. It's distracting and takes up brain space. I'll gather my thoughts just when the time calls for it. Until then, I just enjoy what I enjoy. Wholly agree. What I meant by 'entitled' (might just be a poor choice of words on my part) is that you have every right to enjoy something without feeling forced to explain why. TheBrainintheJar said: I don't think people are entitled to their opinions. They have to earn them. An opinion without reasoning is pointless. I also don't understand this talk of 'imposing opinions'. I don't think anyone here has the power or the will to force others to think. We're just thinking out loud. I find that once we're scared people are out to change our minds, or we stop with thought terminating cliches discussion are more fruitful. Well, I sure as hell don't think brainwashing on anime tastes is anyone's goal. But I also find there's plenty of arguments which can basically be summed up as 'this thingy is a lot more intelligent and subtle and cool than you could ever imagine', and we keep reaching back to 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' relativist dead horse. We are thinking out loud alright. There are opinions that come off as imposing, and that has nothing to do with their intention nor their efficacy. Overanalyzing (i.e. elevating material by digging out deep themes and analogies which arguably weren't even there in the first place) usually tries to establish objective quality, hence reinforcing one's own point. Anyhow, I'm going off on a tangent here. I just dig discussing thought processes behind liking and disliking stuff, and I doubt MAL users can meddle with each other's brain. Always assumed polite conversations make room for growth. There are people whose opinions come off as imposing, but I don't believe calling them on it is enough. It's a response to tone, which is a logical fallacy. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: There are people whose opinions come off as imposing, but I don't believe calling them on it is enough. It's a response to tone, which is a logical fallacy. As far as debunking an overanalysis via logic and evidence, as well as a spot-on definition of it, masterofgo had an interesting back-and-forth a few posts back and I don't have anything relevant to add to that. I'm giving my take on the motivations and reasoning behind it, it's not like I can break down an argument to pieces by spouting 'you sound angry'. |
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JoePanichelli said: I like the point you're making actually. Let's compare 'overanalysis' to how much you have to squint your eyes in order to see a certain theme/purpose/artistic merit in a product. Would you agree with me on that? Also, what is in your opinion the difference between a good reviewer and a poor one? It's hard to say exactly, but I'll point out some stuff : 1) They put the show in context. What year has it been made and what kind of other shows were aired at that time and previously. Ex : Something cliché was certainly something very original at some time. 2) Credit goods and wrongs properly, not matter if it was one of their favorite show or not. In other words, unbiased. Also, he should explain why! Seems elementary, but damn important. 3) Analyze the anime from different angles, and see the big picture. Ex : Pacing is slow, but why? Was it to create some kind of atmosphere, to make time for the viewers to identify to the characters, or, if not, why the slow-pacing hurts the show and the viewers? 4) Acknowledge that it takes good effort and teamwork to make a good show, and there is always restriction of resources and time. In other words, not blindly state stuff like "why didn't they just do that", "it was too short", etc. without developing further. Not carelessly bash the anime for no reason. 5) Understand what kind of show it was, and what was its focus, and its theme. Afterwards, they should prioritize on those aspects and not just what the reviewer wanted. 6) Compare, or not to compare? I think the best reason to compare is to point out what the show did differently. What is the show's identity. What makes it different than other similar shows. Just saying it's the "same 'ol, same 'ol" is not a good review. |
MasterHooverNov 1, 2016 10:07 PM
TheBrainintheJar said: It is in my opinion, that your assertion of your belief that people have to "earn" their opinions, by what means I haven't the foggiest, is merely an excuse for you to dismiss others opinions that you don't like. Keep in mind, that this assertion of yours is merely your opinion and quiet frankly, by your logic, have you really earned the right to have it?JoePanichelli said: Isn't discussing the difference between 'I like X because I like it' and 'I found hints of religion, sexuality and depression in X, therefore I liked it and y'all goats should too' the whole point of this thread? Obviously everything is subjective, but imposing your own personal views and takes on a show (hence 'OVERanalyzing') to prove its quality to others is a thing that happens, and worth talking about. Being entitled to your own opinion is one of the wonderful perks of being human, but critique and analysis with the intent to find out what could be considered to be objectively 'good' or 'bad' has every right to exist. Authorial intent, apparent or perceived, should always be one of the anchors of a worthwhile discussion concerning artistic quality; 'pulling things out of your ass' to justify an idea that is by definition already sound inside your head, on the contrary, doesn't contribute as much. Quoting a favorite of mine, opinion is a collaborative effort. Ain't that great. I don't think people are entitled to their opinions. They have to earn them. An opinion without reasoning is pointless. OT: If you try to analyze any work of fiction on a "deep level"/overanalyze you will most likely realize that it's all the same contrived shit and will ruin the experience for yourself. I'd recommend looking into things just as much as you need to, don't try to relate everything to your personal philosophies, psychology, sociological/political beliefs. Don't write out meaningless reviews that try to sound intelligent by claiming things are about the nuclear bomb and other such nonsense. You could be doing more better and more important things with your life instead of wasting it on analyzing fluff entertainment like anime. Just take things as they are and enjoy the ride. |
ThrashMattoNov 2, 2016 12:42 AM
 I love Christine "If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. He will put some things behind, will pass an invisible boundary; In proportion as he simplifies his life, the laws of the universe will appear less complex, and solitude will not be solitude, nor poverty poverty, nor weakness weakness." - Henry David Thoreau |
ThrashMatto said: TheBrainintheJar said: It is in my opinion, that your assertion of your belief that people have to "earn" their opinions, by what means I haven't the foggiest, is merely an excuse for you to dismiss others opinions that you don't like. Keep in mind, that this assertion of yours is merely your opinion and quiet frankly, by your logic, have you really earned the right to have it?I don't think people are entitled to their opinions. They have to earn them. An opinion without reasoning is pointless. OT: If you try to analyze any work of fiction on a "deep level"/overanalyze you will most likely realize that it's all the same contrived shit and will ruin the experience for yourself. I'd recommend looking into things just as much as you need to, don't try to relate everything to your personal philosophies, psychology, sociological/political beliefs. Don't write out meaningless reviews that try to sound intelligent by claiming things are about the nuclear bomb and other such nonsense. You could be doing more better and more important things with your life instead of wasting it on analyzing fluff entertainment like anime. Just take things as they are and enjoy the ride. What is an opinion's worth without its explanation? We don't just think things. We think something because of various reasons. We think chocolate is tasty because it makes our tasting glands feel good. We think a song is great because the singer's voice is nice on the ear, and some of the lyrics hit home. We think black people are all criminals because of a past experience. We think the earth is round because we saw pictures from an organization with authority. If someone told you that Led Zeppelin are good, or that the earth is flat*, but not explain why, what would it contribute? How do you understand people without understanding what's beneath their thoughts? *I'm aware I chose a fact, and I chose so deliberately. I'm dealing with human thoughts. Both facts and opinions have their reasoning. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
ThrashMatto said: "How to show that I don't engage with a lot of fiction" - the postIf you try to analyze any work of fiction on a "deep level"/overanalyze you will most likely realize that it's all the same contrived shit and will ruin the experience for yourself. |
Yudina said: If you saw my music and video game collection you wouldn't be saying that, and you say that as if it's a bad thing. Some people actually have lives.ThrashMatto said: "How to show that I don't engage with a lot of fiction" - the postIf you try to analyze any work of fiction on a "deep level"/overanalyze you will most likely realize that it's all the same contrived shit and will ruin the experience for yourself. edit: also 26 anime completed vs 314... yeah, and I don't consume a lot of fiction... TheBrainintheJar said: You're basically asking what the point of free thought is, what the point of not being a Borg is if you don't bother to get into debates over trivial shit like anime. If somebody likes Led Zeppelin or thinks the earth is flat they are entitled to that opinion, doesn't mean they are free from ridicule, but they are still entitled. Why do people's opinions have to conform to your arbitrary standards? Why do they have to contribute anything to you? Nobody should be trying to tell anyone how or what to think, that's awfully Orwellian of you. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to validate mine and other people's existences constantly. ThrashMatto said: It is in my opinion, that your assertion of your belief that people have to "earn" their opinions, by what means I haven't the foggiest, is merely an excuse for you to dismiss others opinions that you don't like. Keep in mind, that this assertion of yours is merely your opinion and quiet frankly, by your logic, have you really earned the right to have it? OT: If you try to analyze any work of fiction on a "deep level"/overanalyze you will most likely realize that it's all the same contrived shit and will ruin the experience for yourself. I'd recommend looking into things just as much as you need to, don't try to relate everything to your personal philosophies, psychology, sociological/political beliefs. Don't write out meaningless reviews that try to sound intelligent by claiming things are about the nuclear bomb and other such nonsense. You could be doing more better and more important things with your life instead of wasting it on analyzing fluff entertainment like anime. Just take things as they are and enjoy the ride. What is an opinion's worth without its explanation? We don't just think things. We think something because of various reasons. We think chocolate is tasty because it makes our tasting glands feel good. We think a song is great because the singer's voice is nice on the ear, and some of the lyrics hit home. We think black people are all criminals because of a past experience. We think the earth is round because we saw pictures from an organization with authority. If someone told you that Led Zeppelin are good, or that the earth is flat*, but not explain why, what would it contribute? How do you understand people without understanding what's beneath their thoughts? *I'm aware I chose a fact, and I chose so deliberately. I'm dealing with human thoughts. Both facts and opinions have their reasoning. |
ThrashMattoNov 2, 2016 9:47 AM
I love Christine "If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. He will put some things behind, will pass an invisible boundary; In proportion as he simplifies his life, the laws of the universe will appear less complex, and solitude will not be solitude, nor poverty poverty, nor weakness weakness." - Henry David Thoreau |
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