If view on anime is subjective, why don't people just say they like or dislike anime instead of calling it good or bad?
Senpaoi said: TripleSRank said: Strawman much? It's always fun when people assume making subjective statements like "this thing is awesome" or "that thing sucks" has anything to do with calling someone an idiot for disliking what you like. I don't think I'm the one being a jerk here; or rather, I'm not the one who seems to feel persecuted by benign statements. Because we're using MyAnimeList and I'm using examples of what "subjective statements" users say, like what I said, rather than simply saying "this show is good". I do know what subjective statements are. I'm not certain that you do. View these two statements. "Snails are the best food on the planet." "Snails are the best food on the planet, and if you disagree you're a moron." One of these is a subjective statement. One of these is a subjective statement plus an insult based on misplaced ego. They are not equivalent. Not even slightly. If you think these are equivalent, then it is you who is the problem. The entire point of a forum is to discuss and exchange opinions-- something more appropriate to do in persuasive, non-factual wording. Those who read those two statements as being the same thing are foisting their own personal insecurities onto others, and frankly, it's their own problem if they can't handle someone thinking something contrary to their own thoughts, even if those thoughts are fervently contested by said someone. This is why your reply to me is a strawman. Insults/elitism and subjective statements are not inherently connected to one another. They can and do exist independently, with this thread focusing on the latter alone. |
| Because good or bad quality anime itself are also entirely subjective. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| This is like the complaints about the use of the terms overrated/underrated I guess, a very gratuitous assumption that people can't acknowledge the inherent subjectivity of these terms. Also, reminding the reader constantly that it is your opinion feels dumb and redundant. |
| Reviewers will often reach a conclusion roughly of "good" or "bad". Some people like to be critics, which is all about categorizing and analyzing shiz. Labels can also add more weight because they are extrinsic. "Dude, animu X was so good! You have to watch it." vs "Dude, I liked animu X! You have to watch it." While the latter might be more accurate, the former sounds more persuasive. |
| Because this medium produced these idiots, it doesn't help that these idiots started to care for it passionately at their rebellious age. Although I will say that there are good and bad in a content, whether people accept that or not is up to them. It's not difficult to not give a shit about other's opinion of your opinion, but when its about something you are passionate about its more likely than not that you'll be caught up the heat of the moment and start to argue unconsciously. |
| Because 'like' and ' dislike' have a tacit call for explanation. We in the anime community prefer 'epic' and 'shitty', then abscond in anonymity to the safety of our waifu pillows. |
| I think its annoying how people often expect you to say 'but thats just my opinion and youre free to disagree with it' - ofc it fukin is cause it can only be that. Its like they all ended primary school and just discovered that the only thing people can possibly argue about are opinions. |
 Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
| Saying its shit makes people feel more proud, if i called ur fav show shit then u would be a bit salty, the trolls on MAL attempt to shit on any show u like that they dont. |
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I fucking lold at "Mai hamster"... that may have to be my next name change xD I see you've been triggered my son, ain't no one forcimg you to keep watching anything you think is terrible |
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AltoRoark said: Because why would those terms even exist if that was the case? MAL threads are sinking faster and faster by the minute. They've always appealed to the lowest common denominator if you ask me |
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Pullman said: Because people prefer looking outwards, not inwards. What I mean is that they're more comfortable judging and labeling something outside of them (in this case the anime) instead of focusing on themselves (in this case their experience/perception of the anime). They like to pretend they have nothing to do with the watching experience and whatever the result is, is all solely because of the outside object, the anime. It's psychologically much more relieving to put all the blame and responability outside of them and see themselves just as passive mediums who mechanically react to what they watch as if that was the only possible reaction. Or the only 'logical' reaction at least. Which is why they can get so passionate (read: insulting) when someone else doesn't share their perception. It reminds them that it's all subjective and that their own expectations, knowledge, history, current state of mind, surroundings, values and preferences play at least as big of a role in how they perceive an anime than the anime itself. The anime itself is not a variable, it's always the same no matter who watches it. What changes are all the personal variables I just listed (and many more probably). And to some degree we can control them if we are aware of it, shaping our experiences into something more enjoyable than it would have been if we just pretended to be passive mediums. But all of that is a somewhat complicated concept and it's super annoying because constantly being aware of it makes it very hard to form quick judgments or opinions about pretty much anything, which is something human psychology yearns for. And the introspective nature of that concept forces them to reflect on themselves more than anything, if they take it to heart, which is something most people do not enjoy at all. So they stick with the quick and easy shortcut of calling shows bad or good and whatnot. Everyone aware of how truly subjective perception is by nature will know that they're still only talking about their experience/perception of the show but to the masses it's all the same. And functionally it is too, to some degree, when it's just about making your opinion heard. But it does breed countless conflicts and misunderstandings that could be avoided if people were aware that all perception is already colored by default through the glasses of their individuality rather than thinking that they 'perceive the show as it is'. Welp, this deserves a good ole '/thread'. |
| Je trempe mes cookies dans tes larmes. |
| Once anyone says "good" or "bad" it is already subjective. There's no need to add a "that's just my opinion" or anything of that sort. The only thing objective would be facts, such as "red hair", since no one else can deny things like that. For example, you are already being subjective when you say that a certain anime is "bad" because the story is cliche, with stereotypical characters. Because not 100% of everyone will feel that these cliche story or characters makes the anime "bad". Likewise, saying an anime has good visuals is subjective as well since not 100% of everyone will think/feel that it looks good. There will be a majority of the same opinions of whether it is "good" or "bad", but it doesn't mean that it will become a fact, because it doesn't apply to every single one of us the same way. |
| (*ﾟ∀ﾟ)ノ |
| When you think about it, everything we regard as 'good' and 'bad' are subjective in life. Then, we should give up the whole concept, not just anime. The more people like something, the better the chances that it will become the norm. Everything works that way. |
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| Because they mean the same thing, the only difference is how people respond to them, and people might really hate something, so they're going to call is trash instead of playing to people's insecurities. |
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| People sometimes try to force their opinion (even if not intentionally) by speaking as though it was objective |
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| Everything is subjective, good or bad, right or wrong, big or little. If an opposite exists it's subjective. That is a major reason laws and rules get broken. When someone's "view" of right or wrong veers far enough from the norm it leads them to not care enough about the rules to bother with them. The same applies to anime, also good and bad are stronger words then like and dislike. People tend to be careless as well, at least subconsciously, they think of good and bad as the same as like and dislike, even though they are two completly different things. |
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| Yes we should be saying "like" instead of "good" but if we like something chances are high there was more good in it than bad -- even if we aren't qualified to really grade by how much (objectively). And if we really, really like something then chances are there were a great many things that were "good" about it. However even the most highly scored titles on MAL aren't going to receive 100% agreement on how "good" they are. It's easy to (objectively) give full marks for outliers: like Garden of Words for its art alone or Redline for its animation alone, etc. Not so easy for the other 99% of titles which aren't outliers. Then there are the taste-dependent things like music, voice acting, humor, pacing, and plot all in combination. Also, the weight assigned to each of those in contributing to the "goodness". |
| Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :) Sig by MissIntrovert.  |
| Because some anime are objectively shit, and I can spot them easily with my great taste. also, what @merryfistmas said. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
| I'm fine with people saying something is really good or really bad as long as they can give well thought out, justified reasons for why they think that way and be willing to participate in civil discussion when others question them. I mean, if you purposefully make a big bold statement that will obviously cause strong agreement or disagreement, you bet your ass people will expect you to give reasons for your position. No one likes a person who claims their opinions are fact while covering their ears to any outside voice. |
| because people likes to use offensive words when it comes to anonymous posts, to show how edgy they are |
| What's the difference? My problem with 'I like it' is that it emphasizes the subjectivity of it. People often confuse subjectivity with meaninglessness. We like things for a reason, though. We don't just enjoy things because we enjoy them. I had a lot of discussions about anime and music and it's always fascinating to hear why people think what they do. I think that "It's bad" or "It's good" encourages a more critical, deep view. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
8oomer said: Yes we should be saying "like" instead of "good" but if we like something chances are high there was more good in it than bad -- even if we aren't qualified to really grade by how much (objectively). And if we really, really like something then chances are there were a great many things that were "good" about it. The problem is, a lot of people invert this statement: they claim that if they didn't like a show, it is because the show is bad. Sane people should be able to tell when a show is meant to be enjoyed by somebody else, and when it is meant to be enjoyed by people like themselves, but failed. Most anime are the first kind. rektr said: i don't get it. how are you qualifying work as good despite not liking it and vice versa. A work is good if there is an audience that says it's good. For example, I liked SAO, so it is objectively good. I disliked Another, and this says nothing about whether it is good or bad. SilverDio said: Everybody has an opinion and that is okay... but I would never be able to say that SAO is on the same quality of a Ghibli Movie. I can easily construct an argument that Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi is worse than SAO. About how one teaches to be a helpless little girl, and the other teaches to be a badass protagonist. About how all the women in Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi are either evil or helpless. About how only one of them has awesome fights and good-looking girls. About how Silika is more moe than Chihiro. Really, Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi is just toxic! Or, I can instead construct an argument that My Neighbour Totoro is just like SAO. With slow buildup of mysterious things happening, until they finally save the day in the end. With teaching people to help each other. With awesome backgrounds. |
| because we take great joy from shitting on anime we dislike, by acting like our opinions are objective. |
 "The sun is my enemy, but the moon has been good to me." |
Yourlolm said: Saying its shit makes people feel more proud, if i called ur fav show shit then u would be a bit salty, the trolls on MAL attempt to shit on any show u like that they dont. Clannad is shit and you're shit. Studio key fag This is fun |
"The sun is my enemy, but the moon has been good to me." |
Lord_Sithis said: If the majority's opinion is that it's good/bad, then it is. However you're free to like/dislike it. http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_flies_are_there_in_the_world?#slide=2 17 quadrillion > 7 Billion. Should we conclude that shits are good? |
| We They just take pleasure by calling others taste shit! :3 👊👊👊 |
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Lord_Sithis said: Sayga said: I'm puzzled. We are not flies and flies certainly don't like anime.http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_flies_are_there_in_the_world?#slide=2 17 quadrillion > 7 Billion. Should we conclude that shits are good? I'm not so sure about this. I always have 1 or 2 insects coming on my screen when i watch anime :D |
merryfistmas said: I'm sure you were telling me somewhere (in shit taste tournament iirc) that you know Monogatari series is good but you just didn't like it.Because they mean the same thing, the only difference is how people respond to them, and people might really hate something, so they're going to call is trash instead of playing to people's insecurities. While both are subjective, it don't think they're the same. There's a thin line between them. |
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Xillya- said: That's true, there I some shows I appreciate but don't like quite as much as their fans. So J suppose that while they're mostly interchange, good and bad are used when I have more reasoning behind it.merryfistmas said: I'm sure you were telling me somewhere (in shit taste tournament iirc) that you know Monogatari series is good but you just didn't like it.Because they mean the same thing, the only difference is how people respond to them, and people might really hate something, so they're going to call is trash instead of playing to people's insecurities. While both are subjective, it don't think they're the same. There's a thin line between them. Now that I think about it, like and dislike are objective, since I objectively like shows that I like :P |
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| Something being "good" or "bad" is also subjective, you do know that right? I think you are confusing some things. If something is widely seen as "bad" it's get branded that way and accepted that way. For example some people think Blue Exorcist is a bad anime, and i think it's a fucking masterpiece. It means nothing as it's branded as Mediocre by scores. |
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