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Do you believe that murderers still have human rights?

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Sep 7, 2016 12:12 AM
#1

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Jan 2016
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By committing an act that signify their blatant disregard for human life(and in extension) rights for whatever reason(there's no justification to murder).... they have thrown away what makes them human(and in extension should not be extended the rights we humans enjoy)... Don't you think?

Well, this are only extended to people that are really proven guilty.... to preemptively address the major nitpick people can give me.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:20 AM
#2

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Oct 2012
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CapitalistGod said:
By committing an act that signify their blatant disregard for human life(and in extension) rights for whatever reason(there's no justification to murder).... they have thrown away what makes them human(and in extension should not be extended the rights we humans enjoy)... Don't you think?

Well, this are only extended to people that are really proven guilty.... to preemptively address the major nitpick people can give me.


Sometimes.

I don't think all crimes are created equal, and there are certain people whom may be guilty of something even as bad as murder, but have atleast reasonable, or understandable reasons why something like that went down.

However, there are certainly people out there that aren't rehabilitatable. I honestly don't know what we should do with these people... Assuming what they did was proven without a shadow of a doubt, I'd say they deserve the death penalty, but i think there are some people that might be worthy of redemption.
Sep 7, 2016 8:48 AM
#3

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May 2016
666
Absolutely proven? It shouldn't just be murderers who don't have any human rights--there are a lot of other people who don't deserve to be treated with any decency whatsoever. And then there are some who need to die slowly and in excruciating agony (child rapists and the sort).
"Shocking truth!" ~Chaika Trabant
"How unpleasant." ~Kuriyama Mirai
"Whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there." ~Rem
"You don't die for your friends; you live for them." ~Misaka Mikoto
"Now I believe. In my own strength... and in the one who gave me that strength." ~Roze
"I'll be the guard dog of all your fever dreams."
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Sep 7, 2016 8:50 AM
#4

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May 2016
5541
rapists, pedophiles(cough, definitely not lolicons....) and murderers should be put to death if found 100% guilty.
Sep 7, 2016 8:52 AM
#5

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Dec 2015
84
murderers are fine. its is just a food chain..
Sep 7, 2016 8:56 AM
#6

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Mar 2016
653
The whole liberal human rights are bullshit, so...
Sep 7, 2016 8:56 AM
#7
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May 2012
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It depends, it always depends. Depends on the person, the situation, the victim.
Sep 7, 2016 8:59 AM
#8

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Aug 2015
408
yes.
i don't think any human anywhere has the right to decide they're more human or more deserving of human rights than anyone else.
if one sentences a murderer to death, won't they be a murderer as well in that case? sentencing a person to death pretty much takes away any chance they have of redemption, realizing their mistakes, feeling guilt, etc.
also -- accidental murder during self defense is a thing too, y'know.
Sep 7, 2016 9:02 AM
#9

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Jun 2011
7031
They are still human, are they not? I don't agree with dehumanizing anyone, that is just an excuse to stoop to their level.
Sep 7, 2016 9:11 AM

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7428
It makes sense to assume that you have basic human rights so long as you are human. By stripping them of these rights you are effectively dehumanizing them, which is immoral if you subscribe to the idea of 'human rights' in the first place, regardless of what crime(s) the person in question has commited. It is hypocrisy.
MoogSep 7, 2016 9:20 AM
Sep 7, 2016 9:14 AM

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84
eating animal is fine so eating humans is fine
Sep 7, 2016 9:19 AM

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Apr 2015
6731
Every human has basic human rights.

Also, there are cases in which murder is justified and allowed by the law, such as a dangerous person breaking into your home.
"No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!"
Sep 7, 2016 9:27 AM

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Jul 2013
3302
Human rights should never be completely taken if you agree with them in the first place.
Sep 7, 2016 9:28 AM

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Dec 2015
84
government just brainwashing people so they wont becum a threat to status quo...
Sep 7, 2016 9:32 AM

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Apr 2011
4658
"Murderers" should ALWAYS have humans right.

Some "Murderers" may be actually innocent. Just because the court judges you guilty doesn't mean you really are. You should always think about the worse case scenario.
Sep 7, 2016 9:44 AM

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CatSoul said:
Every human has basic human rights.

Also, there are cases in which murder is justified and allowed by the law, such as a dangerous person breaking into your home.


That's not a murder. Murder is an unlawful killing..
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Sep 7, 2016 9:47 AM

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Nov 2011
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I like how human can decide that killing another human can be ok and not ok at the same time.

Sep 7, 2016 10:01 AM

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Oct 2014
15753
Generally murderers had a tough life and something pushed them over the edge to make them want to murder someone. If someone was sexually abused by their father as a child and when after they grew up they took it upon themselves to murder their father then I think that is justified and although they still will need to be punished they're no less human than anyone else in their socioeconomic bracket. Here in Canada prisoners are still allowed to vote in elections and I don't personally see any reason why that shouldn't be the case.
Sep 7, 2016 10:16 AM

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3151
You're assuming too many things to come to your conclusion. Unless you somehow gain objective truths on what's right and what's justified, then it just doesn't work perfectly.
Sep 7, 2016 10:20 AM

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CapitalistGod said:
By committing an act that signify their blatant disregard for human life(and in extension) rights for whatever reason(there's no justification to murder).... they have thrown away what makes them human(and in extension should not be extended the rights we humans enjoy)

By stripping murderers of their human rights, you committed an act that signifies your blatant disregard for human rights, and you've thrown away what makes you human.
Sep 7, 2016 10:26 AM

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Oct 2015
3109
Well you don't stop becoming human when you commit a crime so you should be able to put two and two together...

And people who believe that we should all be edgy and not have any rights and should be free to kill each other would be the first to die under that kind of system.
Sep 7, 2016 10:46 AM
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Sep 2015
1709
After reading the human rights document just now, it seems they already lose rights when they become a criminal. I think this is sensible, but criminals still do deserve some rights. Perhaps a prisoner rights declaration would be effective?
Sep 7, 2016 11:07 AM

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Feb 2013
24141
It's a waste of money supporting them in prison, they should be executed.
Sep 7, 2016 11:10 AM

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Ulquiorra said:
It's a waste of money supporting them in prison, they should be executed.


nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Sep 7, 2016 11:13 AM

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24141
ASMR said:
Ulquiorra said:
It's a waste of money supporting them in prison, they should be executed.


nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Why not?
Do you feel better knowing that a criminal is having a good life, having food in prison and everywhere around the world there are people starving?
Money should be used for people who deserve it.
Sep 7, 2016 11:23 AM

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if u want to save money,release the criminals out
Sep 7, 2016 11:24 AM

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53425
Yes, if you just mistreat them it's only adding to their bad mental state.
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Sep 7, 2016 11:35 AM

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May 2009
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Eh, once they go to jail, it's a wrap. Prisons cares nothing for human rights.
Sep 7, 2016 12:11 PM

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Oct 2015
726
Yes, I actually do. We all stay human, some more animals than others.
Sep 7, 2016 12:54 PM

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Well, did they stop being humans? Did their genes change?
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Sep 7, 2016 1:38 PM

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CapitalistGod said:
By committing an act that signify their blatant disregard for human life(and in extension) rights for whatever reason(there's no justification to murder).... they have thrown away what makes them human(and in extension should not be extended the rights we humans enjoy)... Don't you think?

Well, this are only extended to people that are really proven guilty.... to preemptively address the major nitpick people can give me.
I believe that anybody can come back from what they do.

I believe they do have human rights. I believe from the many last words that have been spoken that people can come back.

All life is precious.

Live here in the now, chill with your buddy, Jambles.
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Sep 7, 2016 1:43 PM

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May 2016
666
I would argue against all of you saying that they are still human. I mean, as soon as someone utterly disregards others' human rights in such a way, or in even worse ways, they are no longer even human. Biologically they are, but on a fundamental level they lack humanity. Therefore, taking away their human rights and even killing them should be regarded as no more than animal cruelty, and probably less--it should probably be thought of like putting down a rabid dog. Sad, but not wrong, per se. Of course, this can only be applied when it is shown beyond a shadow of a doubt--witnesses agreeing independently and DNA evidence confirming their testimonies, at the least.
"Shocking truth!" ~Chaika Trabant
"How unpleasant." ~Kuriyama Mirai
"Whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there." ~Rem
"You don't die for your friends; you live for them." ~Misaka Mikoto
"Now I believe. In my own strength... and in the one who gave me that strength." ~Roze
"I'll be the guard dog of all your fever dreams."
Signature and forum avatar courtesy of @SenpieX
Sep 7, 2016 1:47 PM

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666
Jambles said:
CapitalistGod said:
By committing an act that signify their blatant disregard for human life(and in extension) rights for whatever reason(there's no justification to murder).... they have thrown away what makes them human(and in extension should not be extended the rights we humans enjoy)... Don't you think?

Well, this are only extended to people that are really proven guilty.... to preemptively address the major nitpick people can give me.
I believe that anybody can come back from what they do.

I believe they do have human rights. I believe from the many last words that have been spoken that people can come back.

All life is precious.


It might be true that someone can come back from murder, or have a halfway legitimate excuse for it, but there are other things which can never be justified or atoned for. Should those people have human rights?

If they hadn't been about to die, do you think they would have said those things, or even thought of them? I'm not so sure.

Life is precious, yes, but why are you valuing one life over another? Wasn't the victim's life also precious? If the murderer is given freedom, you have no guarantee they won't kill again, and the chances of a recurrence are logically much higher than the chances of someone who never killed before to do so.
"Shocking truth!" ~Chaika Trabant
"How unpleasant." ~Kuriyama Mirai
"Whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there." ~Rem
"You don't die for your friends; you live for them." ~Misaka Mikoto
"Now I believe. In my own strength... and in the one who gave me that strength." ~Roze
"I'll be the guard dog of all your fever dreams."
Signature and forum avatar courtesy of @SenpieX
Sep 7, 2016 1:50 PM

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Jul 2014
4029
Obviously yes. There's no point to human rights if they're not universal.
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Sep 7, 2016 2:02 PM

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4332
I tend to have rightist thoughts when it comes to economy, and prisioners are directly sustained by citizens taxes, just killing murderes won't solve the problem at all, because not everyone in prison are murederes, but if you still want that, rather kill any kind of criminal to clean up the prisons, which is a wrong thing. About the humans right, well, I will I think so, that is a tough question though, also because it may depend on kind of mureder or any other criminal.
FragMentizedSep 7, 2016 2:06 PM
Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious.
Sep 7, 2016 2:05 PM

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Mal user: *makes a topic and forces some shitty morals on you.*
tretijSep 7, 2016 2:09 PM
Sep 7, 2016 3:22 PM

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Aug 2016
1600
Generally yes, although there should be some exceptions. It also depends on how human rights are defined.
People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol
Sep 7, 2016 3:28 PM

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Jan 2016
4316
Waifu_Material said:
yes.
i don't think any human anywhere has the right to decide they're more human or more deserving of human rights than anyone else.
if one sentences a murderer to death, won't they be a murderer as well in that case? sentencing a person to death pretty much takes away any chance they have of redemption, realizing their mistakes, feeling guilt, etc.
also -- accidental murder during self defense is a thing too, y'know.


The thing about justice... is that it (should) be cold hearted and unemotional. It (should) not care about redemption or anything like that.

Also, yeah.... I won't call self defense murder per se. Since the definition of murder is

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
which self defense is clearly not. It certainly is not unlawful and it certainly is not premeditated.

Narmy said:
They are still human, are they not? I don't agree with dehumanizing anyone, that is just an excuse to stoop to their level.


It's not stooping down on their level but letting them get what they rightfully deserve or in other words, justice. Cold hearted and unemotional justice.

Moog said:
It makes sense to assume that you have basic human rights so long as you are human. By stripping them of these rights you are effectively dehumanizing them, which is immoral if you subscribe to the idea of 'human rights' in the first place, regardless of what crime(s) the person in question has commited. It is hypocrisy.


If someone dehumanize other people by committing murder, it's just justice to let them get what they deserve....

traed said:
Yes, if you just mistreat them it's only adding to their bad mental state.


Welp. Never mind what they did to people, they only just committed murder and let other people grieve.... what's more important is their mental healthcare.

What a kindhearted way to commit injustice.

Rothion said:
Obviously yes. There's no point to human rights if they're not universal.


There's even no point to human rights if there is no justice served.
ethotSep 7, 2016 3:47 PM
Sep 7, 2016 4:10 PM

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53425
CapitalistGod said:
traed said:
Yes, if you just mistreat them it's only adding to their bad mental state.


Welp. Never mind what they did to people, they only just committed murder and let other people grieve.... what's more important is their mental healthcare.

What a kindhearted way to commit injustice.


Why would you want to fuck them up more? Most murders are a one time thing not serial killers. They get out of jail after some years. You want to release someonee in a statee worsee than they went in with?
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Sep 7, 2016 6:03 PM

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Jan 2016
4316
traed said:
CapitalistGod said:


Welp. Never mind what they did to people, they only just committed murder and let other people grieve.... what's more important is their mental healthcare.

What a kindhearted way to commit injustice.


Why would you want to fuck them up more? Most murders are a one time thing not serial killers. They get out of jail after some years. You want to release someonee in a statee worsee than they went in with?


My post can be interpreted as championing the death penalty, you know. Since, it's the one I believe in.
Sep 7, 2016 6:38 PM

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Oct 2014
6693
Ulquiorra said:
It's a waste of money supporting them in prison, they should be executed.
But first I'd use 'em as forced labor to pay for the court costs, prison upkeep costs and to pay weregild to the victim's family. After that execute 'em.
Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :)

Sep 7, 2016 7:11 PM

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Apr 2016
1227
No. The killers should be killed.!..
Sep 7, 2016 9:20 PM

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May 2013
949
yes absolutely.
i really dont have an explanation for this. how is a murderer any worse than i am.

s/he could be a kind-hearted, famous celebrity who has greatly influenced society but once they commit murder, all of sudden their previous actions are disregarded. this applies to many many situations and i hate this kind of prejudice.

now i'm no saint but i try to avoid thinking this way the best i can.
Sep 7, 2016 9:24 PM

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Mar 2008
53425
CapitalistGod said:
traed said:


Why would you want to fuck them up more? Most murders are a one time thing not serial killers. They get out of jail after some years. You want to release someonee in a statee worsee than they went in with?


My post can be interpreted as championing the death penalty, you know. Since, it's the one I believe in.


So you would sentence someone to death for killing someone that abused and even tortured them for years?
traedSep 7, 2016 9:39 PM
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Sep 7, 2016 9:27 PM

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Aug 2015
2047
The wisdom of our old Anglo Saxon ways were better. They became outlaws.

This means that they no longer had protection of the law.

They could flee away, but they would always be outlaws. if anyone killed them or harmed them as outlaws no punishment was due.
idk about you but the closer a girl gets to looking like ronald mcdonald, the more aroused i become. CAV

where can we cast our eyes to @PoruMairu who thinks of himself a member of the true church. Helion.
Sep 7, 2016 9:36 PM
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Jul 2018
561864
No. Someone who murders another human is no longer one.
You can execute them right in front of me and I'll still sleep during nights.
Some "people" are so sick that even death isn't enough. I still can't figure out what to do in that case.
Sep 7, 2016 9:58 PM

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May 2016
666
Ussesa said:
yes absolutely.
i really dont have an explanation for this. how is a murderer any worse than i am.

s/he could be a kind-hearted, famous celebrity who has greatly influenced society but once they commit murder, all of sudden their previous actions are disregarded. this applies to many many situations and i hate this kind of prejudice.

now i'm no saint but i try to avoid thinking this way the best i can.


So you're saying that someone's actions which generate material benefit can be measured against the value of a life?

Also, how do you possibly think that a murderer is no worse than you? Does human life really mean that little to you?

Also, out of curiosity, what do you think of other crimes? Are there any which would, in your mind, make someone no longer human, or at least no longer deserving of human rights?
"Shocking truth!" ~Chaika Trabant
"How unpleasant." ~Kuriyama Mirai
"Whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there." ~Rem
"You don't die for your friends; you live for them." ~Misaka Mikoto
"Now I believe. In my own strength... and in the one who gave me that strength." ~Roze
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Sep 8, 2016 2:51 AM

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Jan 2016
4316
traed said:
CapitalistGod said:


My post can be interpreted as championing the death penalty, you know. Since, it's the one I believe in.


So you would sentence someone to death for killing someone that abused and even tortured them for years?


Nope.... If they are found guilty of murder in the first place, there's no abuse and torture that would occur... instead it is straight to the chopping block.
Sep 8, 2016 5:18 AM

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Jun 2015
6888
Yes they have. One should not disclude a certain section for the sake of convenience.

Though I believe that death sentence is an acceptable punishment.
Sep 8, 2016 5:38 AM

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May 2013
949
VagueClarity said:
Ussesa said:
yes absolutely.
i really dont have an explanation for this. how is a murderer any worse than i am.

s/he could be a kind-hearted, famous celebrity who has greatly influenced society but once they commit murder, all of sudden their previous actions are disregarded. this applies to many many situations and i hate this kind of prejudice.

now i'm no saint but i try to avoid thinking this way the best i can.


So you're saying that someone's actions which generate material benefit can be measured against the value of a life?

Also, how do you possibly think that a murderer is no worse than you? Does human life really mean that little to you?

Also, out of curiosity, what do you think of other crimes? Are there any which would, in your mind, make someone no longer human, or at least no longer deserving of human rights?

Uh to answer your first question, no a person's life isn't more valuable because their actions cause more benefit to society. Someone could just be your average joe tryna get through life but then commits murder. I'm not saying that we shouldn't sympathize for the victim(s) of murder but we should also sympathize with murderers.
I like to make my decisions through comparing myself with others. I can recall times when I've thought, "wow it would be really easy for me to push you down to the subway tracks right now" or "what are the odds of me getting away with murder". But the only difference between me and a murderer is that I wouldnt act on those ideas. Not when im thinking rationally anyway. But exactly how big of a difference is that difference and will I ever become a murderer in the future? Humans are very driven by emotions and sometimes those emotions get the better of us.
To be honest, yes I guess I do think very little of human life because ...um..yea I just do lol.
And to answer your last question. Nope not really.
Hopefully I kind of answered your questions lol
UssesaSep 8, 2016 5:42 AM
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