| I'd say it's pretty clear that certain genres of night anime (i.e. not the kids series&long running family programmes) that are quite big in and around Japan are...not so on the other side of the pond and on the other sides of the continent etc., namely Mechas, relatively CGDCTs and slow SOLs, Idol franchises, and shows that talk about music. Now I'm not saying that no one likes them here, and I'm saying neither 'they're shit' and 'they are GOAT and you should watch them' I'm just thinking of a rational reason behind each of them I imagine that the relative uniqueness of the Japanese 'idol' market makes the genre quite inaccessible for viewers far from it(this is pure assumption because I am accustomed to that culture), but are there any other concrete theories, outside of 'I don't like them and they should not make more of it'? |
| Because casuals prefer honest to goodness action series answers half of that question. |
| You know how we are in the west... everything has to be straight serious or straight comedy or ppl complain Also we love our violence So dumb... lol |
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BrandNew_Lanz said: I'd say it's pretty clear that certain genres of night anime (i.e. not the kids series&long running family programmes) that are quite big in and around Japan are.. CGDCTs and slow SOLs, Idol franchises, have you seen aikatsu? probably not... they are the shit in japan... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kuma said: BrandNew_Lanz said: I'd say it's pretty clear that certain genres of night anime (i.e. not the kids series&long running family programmes) that are quite big in and around Japan are.. CGDCTs and slow SOLs, Idol franchises, have you seen aikatsu? probably not... they are the shit in japan... I haven't and I won't but I do know it is super popular, comparable to Precure is it not |
| it's not because it's "trashy", ecchi/harem/sol/cgdct are every bit as trashy as popular shounen action anime. It's because it's a form of trashy that doesn't appeal to western sensitivities. I sound like a weeaboo saying that, but I'm right. |
BrandNew_Lanz said: Mechas, relatively CGDCTs and slow SOLs, Idol franchises, and shows that talk about music. Mechas might have a bad reputation of beign action flicks and nothing else, and a contest of which one has the better robot. Western movies like Pacific Rim and Transformers don't help the cause. CGDCT is all about cuteness. It can be repulsive. For example K-on made me cringe most of the time. Slow SOL can be boring, and people might not want to take the time to endure that, despite how good the characters, the soul of SoL, can be. A similar argument can be made about CGDCT: they don't want to take the time to watch a show with no plot. Idol is just cultural. Is hard to believe that just because globalization has teared up the cultural walls people will accept and like the idol cultur enough to watch those shows. It also suffers from the SoL issue I mentioned up there: inconsecuential plot. Shows that talk about music have never surpassed Whiplash up until this moment. Is easier, then, to discard them as inferior versions. Those are my interpretations. |
 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye.But does the heart have the right perspective? |
KoreaWS said: BrandNew_Lanz said: Mechas, relatively CGDCTs and slow SOLs, Idol franchises, and shows that talk about music. Those are my interpretations. Great, but on music series err haven't seen it myself but is Whiplash so ubiquitous and highly regarded that it's a common factor in judging anime of its kind? Didn't really think so |
KoreaWS said: BrandNew_Lanz said: Mechas, relatively CGDCTs and slow SOLs, Idol franchises, and shows that talk about music. Mechas might have a bad reputation of beign action flicks and nothing else, and a contest of which one has the better robot. Western movies like Pacific Rim and Transformers don't help the cause. CGDCT is all about cuteness. It can be repulsive. For example K-on made me cringe most of the time. Slow SOL can be boring, and people might not want to take the time to endure that, despite how good the characters, the soul of SoL, can be. A similar argument can be made about CGDCT: they don't want to take the time to watch a show with no plot. Idol is just cultural. Is hard to believe that just because globalization has teared up the cultural walls people will accept and like the idol cultur enough to watch those shows. It also suffers from the SoL issue I mentioned up there: inconsecuential plot. Shows that talk about music have never surpassed Whiplash up until this moment. Is easier, then, to discard them as inferior versions. Those are my interpretations. Heh, I actually liked Pacific Rim, it felt like the most "anime" live action hollywood film I've ever seen. I think some people dismiss mecha because giant fighting robots are still somewhat stigmatised as being "childish". I don't like "monster of the week" mecha but when done right mecha can be a great mirror to our desire and potential of power. Yeah cuteness can be repulsive if it's "trying too hard" (not really sure how to put it) but it can also be heartwarming as fuck. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss how "therapeutic" some cgdct anime can be. Slow SoL is certainly more of an "acquired taste" than anything else. I hated SoL when I started watching anime but I warmed up to it, although I don't think that it's a genre that I will be into forever it would be cool if others were more willing to give it a chance. Idol anime is certainly quite specific to japan for the time being. The U.S.A and UK particularly have their own form of "celebrity worship" but idol culture is on a whole other level. I haven't actually watched any idol anime yet so I can't comment too much on this one. |
BrandNew_Lanz said: Great, but on music series err haven't seen it myself but is Whiplash so ubiquitous and highly regarded that it's a common factor in judging anime of its kind? Didn't really think so My idea comes from the themes: music anime talks about struggle of the musician (Hibike! and Beck, for example), while Whiplash does the same but in a more mature, and arguably entertaining manner, though the latter is clearly based on personal taste. Lobinde said: Heh, I actually liked Pacific Rim, it felt like the most "anime" live action hollywood film I've ever seen. I think some people dismiss mecha because giant fighting robots are still somewhat stigmatised as being "childish". I don't like "monster of the week" mecha but when done right mecha can be a great mirror to our desire and potential of power. That monster of the week thing is a nice observation. I think Power Rangers might have something about it. Despite not beign "mecha", they still have a giant robot, and people might be quick to tie one to another. Yeah cuteness can be repulsive if it's "trying too hard" (not really sure how to put it) but it can also be heartwarming as fuck. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss how "therapeutic" some cgdct anime can be. I didn't dismissed that though. They can be therapeutic but you have to give them time, and when the first impresion doesn't tells you how therapeutic it can be, it can be dismissed as a "waste of time", regardless of how wrong that first impression can be. For example, Aria is therapeutic as fuck but I'm keeping it on hold because it's reaaaally slow and the characters, despite lovely and charming each on their own, aren't very appealing to me. I'd rather be watching something else, if you catch the idea I'm trying to convey. |
| It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye. But does the heart have the right perspective? |
| Mecha is fucking awesome. I really try to get into Gundam right now and I want to watch all the Gundams in order of release. Most people only like Code Geass and Gurren Laggan apparantly :c |
| Mechas, relatively >shit CGDCTs and slow SOLs >shit Idol franchises >shit and shows that talk about music >shit people dont have time to waste on boring things |
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| The concept of SOL doesn't exist here in the west and the comedy here is mostly circumstantial. Mamster-P said: You know how we are in the west... everything has to be straight serious or straight comedy or ppl complain MIB Rush hour Pulp fiction Deadpool Those retarded Transformers movies I got plenty of more examples where that came from.. |
| SOL = no plot. Boring. Mecha = main targed audience are male people where most other people are at least a little bit interesting for females as well. (So less fans = less popular.) |
Gesu- said: The concept of SOL doesn't exist here in the west and the comedy here is mostly circumstantial. Mamster-P said: You know how we are in the west... everything has to be straight serious or straight comedy or ppl complain MIB Rush hour Pulp fiction Deadpool Those retarded Transformers movies I got plenty of more examples where that came from.. i meant anime.... sorry i didn't specify lol at least thats how it seems |
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KoreaWS said: I didn't dismissed that though. They can be therapeutic but you have to give them time, and when the first impresion doesn't tells you how therapeutic it can be, it can be dismissed as a "waste of time", regardless of how wrong that first impression can be. For example, Aria is therapeutic as fuck but I'm keeping it on hold because it's reaaaally slow and the characters, despite lovely and charming each on their own, aren't very appealing to me. I'd rather be watching something else, if you catch the idea I'm trying to convey. Oh yeah that is fair enough. Slow slice of life anime are certainly not "binge watch" material in any way, but I think they serve a good enough niche. If I'm having a bad day or something just watching one or two episodes of say, Nichijou will probably improve my mood, and I think that does more for me than most other anime (not to dismiss other styles of anime). |
| Are slow slice of life unpopular among western fans??? None of the rest of them suprise me but this one seems to be somewhat popular with few friends I do have who are into anime. I'm a little suprised but likely it has to do with the age-groups who are actually watching. I don't know if MAL has ever released stats with age or location specific comparisons or if these are ye just observing and inferring, might be interesting. Anyway, Mechas is exactly what Lobinde said CGDCT is offputting for many western cultures who have difficulty overcoming 2 stigmas which are harsh on this genre/. The idea that shows that look like that can't be entertaining for young lads and the idea that shows like this are in some way perverted. It's silly but culturally most people I know in Western areas are almost ashamed of the idea of these. I mean one of my friends couldn't watch SAO because of being uncomfortable about the actual visual potrayal of Silica which is mind numbing. I mean I accept almost every excuse for not liking SAO but I had to pause at that XD. Even those who like these shows are slow to admit it or act like its just one or two at first to check reactions. Idol franchises, copy pasta from CGDCT? shows that talk about music, not sure. |
AxBattler said: AFAIK though, Evangelion is a mecha anime that is pretty well received in the West, despite the ending of the original series being a bit of a mindfuck. Gurren Lagann and Code Geass are both pretty well received if I am not mistaken. I guess that mecha is fine as long as you have a plot and/or use them in epic ways. CGDCT is actually pretty niche even in Japan. Less than in the West perhaps, but I don't think that I've seen one appear on the top 20 list of a Japanese site like MAL. I find them a bit too pointless personally. Didn't really talk about critical response, I'm talking solely about popularity. Eva is well received and popular but not quite as popular compared to its status in Japan. Those two are popular, but there are too many relatively ignored mecha series for it to be not cited as an unpopular genre here CGDCTs do cater to a niche but the niche is very big. You know how huge GochiUsa is don't you ScarletSentry said: Are slow slice of life unpopular among western fans??? None of the rest of them suprise me but this one seems to be somewhat popular with few friends I do have who are into anime. Well, there are the NNBs, Tamayuras, Hidamari Sketches, Mikakunins, Arias etc. not exactly universal here are they |
| Mecha is the only one I have seen written about in publications. Really basically they say in western culture/religion is is about being saved by something as opposed to eastern culture/religion which is more about gaining the tools to save yourself. Superman vs regular dude/girl getting some mecha or magical power. idol, reality show, same difference. watching someone trying to achieve something. cgdct,sol. I dispute the use of these terms. They fail as descriptions of any specific categorical style. In manga sol used to be used to describe very fly on the wall type stories. But now its just anything about the mundane which is just to vague and up to interpretation. You can easily apply it to anything like better call saul or Seinfeld. |
perjeJun 9, 2016 6:40 PM
| I love slice of life, idols, music and mecha animes lol. Spot on though, I try to avoid lolis and CGDCTs except for a selected few. The only reason I don't like it is because of the animation style and high voices. As with celebrities and appearance in general, people in the West like the "mature" appearance and seem to gravitate toward appreciating "older" men/women. Eg, many people (myself included) like actors who are well in their 40's and 50's. Idk. Either way I think sol and mecha are actually some of the popular genres here in the West. |
The_Nico said: If there's any explanation that needs to be made as to why they're not as popular in the West, there's simply no need to justify why they should be popular. Try this for a number of years and you'll realize it's futile, anime fans, despite their claims of being "open-minded" truly are not, and this is why you cannot convince them otherwise to have things explained to them. The good news is, I can bathe in my own "ignorance" through all of this. It doesn't really matter to me if they are popular or not, I don't really care, I don't even particularly like those genres. This was just a thread to talk about possible factors... |
AxBattler said: On anikore.jp their top 20 list includes K-On! (iconic CGDCT) and Railgun (pretty sure it's CGDCT too). They also have Haruhi, Toradora, Anohana, and Angel Beats! which are all pretty cute anime.CGDCT is actually pretty niche even in Japan. Less than in the West perhaps, but I don't think that I've seen one appear on the top 20 list of a Japanese site like MAL. I find them a bit too pointless personally. |
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zombie_pegasus said: AxBattler said: On anikore.jp their top 20 list includes K-On! (iconic CGDCT) and Railgun (pretty sure it's CGDCT too). They also have Haruhi, Toradora, Anohana, and Angel Beats! which are all pretty cute anime.CGDCT is actually pretty niche even in Japan. Less than in the West perhaps, but I don't think that I've seen one appear on the top 20 list of a Japanese site like MAL. I find them a bit too pointless personally. I think the only anime you mentioned that qualifies CGDCT are K-on! and Toradora. The others have a very big overarching plot which asks for the girls nit to be cute. Dunno about Railgun because I have never even heard of that anime before. |
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holysauron said: I stated the other ones after because they're not just about cute girls doing cute things. I'll give you a description of Railgun that is biased to make it sound like a CGDCT.zombie_pegasus said: On anikore.jp their top 20 list includes K-On! (iconic CGDCT) and Railgun (pretty sure it's CGDCT too). They also have Haruhi, Toradora, Anohana, and Angel Beats! which are all pretty cute anime. I think the only anime you mentioned that qualifies CGDCT are K-on! and Toradora. The others have a very big overarching plot which asks for the girls nit to be cute. Dunno about Railgun because I have never even heard of that anime before. "This is based around cute girls doing cute things, but it also has a lot of good action. During the slice of life portion the characters act adorable and clothing plays a fairly important role in story. The main character is one of the highest level ability users and she enjoys things that are meant for little kids, which makes her even cuter. This also has a great ratio of action to slice of life which makes it an incredibly enjoyable watch." |
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| The reason i don't really like mecha is that every damn time i type it, it autocorrects to mocha and then I want to get one. So frustrating |
j0x said: i do not understand the hate for mecha either […] I don't know about "hate", but if I were into mecha, I'd truly feel embarrassed about that. It is so clearly a boy-ish mightiness-fantasy, one should really grow out of that some time after one left boyhood. And on top of being a boy-ish mightiness fantasy, it is such a poor fantasy. The overpoweredness does not even stem from the protagonists themselves, but just from their giant robo-costume. What ? (and don't give me this "but only protagonist can steer that giant robo-costume" rubbish.) |
| *darn, using my right hand is off-limits for a while. Typing with my left hand only is ... eww.* |
| Weird, I thought at least slice of life was pretty popular here. I mean look at how high Wolf Children and Aria The Origination are on the list. Both are top 50. And Usagi Drop is 75th. About mecha and idol anime, I think mecha used to be super popular back in the 90's. You know, Evangelion and Gundam and stuff. It's just a trend that, when you only consider popularity, doesn't meet its former standards anymore. You already mentioned why idol anime doesn't work in the West so I'm not going to bother telling you. |
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| Lol those 2 or 3 titles in top 100 make them popular. Also high ratings don't make them popular, if anything it makes them well received (compared to other anime). Even Aria the Origination has less than 50k completes compared to how many that finished SAO? And let me remind you that SAO is rated a lot worse. |
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AxBattler said: The majority of the time SoL is also CGDCT. There is some debate about shows like Girls und Panzer being CGDCT as driving tanks is exactly "cute", but So Ra No Wo To is definitely CGDCT as it is also in a military setting. Railgun is quite cute and with half of the anime being filler it's not too surprising that most of the anime focusing on cute girls doing cute things. I'm not sure what your definition of CGDCT is, but if K-On!, the most well known anime in the genre to the point that some people refer to genre as the "K-On! genre", somehow doesn't fit your definition then I can only assume that no anime are CGDCT for you, in which case I start to wonder why I'm even arguing with you.@zombie_pegasus: I've always kind of associated K-On with slice of life myself. And I suppose that it also has plenty of CGDCT, they also put more effort on the music than usual to meet that genre. (Note: I've only watched the first seasons) As for Railgun, it *has* to be Shonen o.O I can see why one might think it's CGDCT on the cover, but there are tons of explosions, people getting beaten up, special powers etc. The "Sister" arc (which I really liked) is sufficiently dark to rule it out as a CGDCT in my opinion. |
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Mamster-P said: You know how we are in the west... everything has to be straight serious or straight comedy or ppl complain Also we love our violence So dumb... lol not from the west but, why do I agree with this post so much? lol ~~~ also... SOLs seem like a total waste of time if you've got a hectic schedule and just want to watch anime for fun, unless of course if these SOLs have a lot of comedy in them. I mean, might as well watch something with a definite PLOT than people lazing around and having a cup of tea (unless ofc there's comedy in that). |
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AxBattler said: BannoBunka_snork said: don't know about "hate", but if I were into mecha, I'd truly feel embarrassed about that. It is so clearly a boy-ish mightiness-fantasy, one should really grow out of that some time after one left boyhood.[...] I don't really get that. A huge number of anime out there, and not just mecha anime is based on some boy-ish fantasy of some sorts, and I don't really see why one form of fantasy is more shameful than another. I have long passed caring about what people think of my hobbies. If I cared though, I wouldn't try to conceal any particular genre, but all anime full stop. Regardless of how mature (be it the story, scares or gore) you may consider some anime, I can guarantee you that for a lot of people, even more so but not limited to the West, "Cartoons (what many would refer anime as) are for kids". Besides, there are so many anime out there that are boy-ish fantasy's I don't even think that the mecha genre is the biggest culprit. Another thing I note is that I know people who like mechas for their design. You may not get it, I know that I don't fully get it, but I don't really get why people get into the cars either. I think we sussed why mechas are rather less popular with his post though |
| Many cultures have things that don't sell un other cultures or that other cultures simply don't understand. I think idols and moe are a perfect example of this. The main selling points of idols is "pure and innocent" girls doing cute things on stage and the target audience are males. (And males who have no sense of reality at that) This means that the audience for them is limited and this audience is known to have some rather specific and strange demands which off course have to be taken into account when making an anime about it. Western singers usually aren't about being pure an innocent they are usually the opposite it's more about looking good and being hot and sexy. Than there are the demands of the target audience which would be a major issue in Western countries particularly when it comes to women rights. The idea about moe seems to be a girl that needs to be protected a girls who makes your maternal instincts think she needs help. And if i have to be entirely honest about it, i have been watching anime for more then ten years and i still don't understand moe. Even tho i know the idea behind it. Too me it seems like a taste or a fetish something that you need to have in order to like and understand it. I want to write more about it and other genres as well but since this is turing into a wall of text i will save it for the next post. |
j0x said: This is actually one of the reasons why i doubt that many people ranting about mecha have actually seen a mecha anime.BannoBunka_snork said: I don't know about "hate", but if I were into mecha, I'd truly feel embarrassed about that. It is so clearly a boy-ish mightiness-fantasy, one should really grow out of that some time after one left boyhood. And on top of being a boy-ish mightiness fantasy, it is such a poor fantasy. The overpoweredness does not even stem from the protagonists themselves, but just from their giant robo-costume. What ? (and don't give me this "but only protagonist can steer that giant robo-costume" rubbish.) weird that you say mecha is just boyish or childish fantasy when mecha have one of the mature stories most of the time, it has deaths, politics, and war most of the time so usually its intended for mature audience you can think of mecha/robots as big boys toys like those cars, big bikes and jetplanes The general idea what most people seem to have of mecha are childish fights between robots but that isn't that case for most mecha. Usually there pretty well thought out and take a lot of things into consideration. And even the ones that are questionable story wise are usually pretty mature take Valvrave or Cross/Ange for example even tho both of them are train wrecks content wise they aren't really fit for children. |
| I'd love more idol anime, but it's a very Japanese thing just like all the high school dramas. Anime like Macross however, I'm surprised aren't domestically released. Anime that are fully fictional tend to do better, unless it's like feudal Japan. |
 Click the banner for anime lists, discussions, reviews, and let's plays! |
| I'm a westener but I'm asian and I can see that my tastes differs a lot from the white population here. I went to an anime convention a few months ago and all the whities were going on about their pokemans, sailor moons, and one punch vans while I'm sitting there talking about the real good shit and they're giving me blank stares. Example would be just a few weeks ago someone mentioned "idols" in our facebook group and the first few comments were like "Love Live!". Yeah Love Live is one of the more well known idol shows and I'm a fan of it myself but nobody mentioned any non-mainstream shows like Idolmaster, Aikatsu, Wake Up Girls, hell even Locodol for what it's worth. I don't know that many but I'm trying to find more. |
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