Rokka no Yuusha Episode 11 Discussion

Offline

Apr 2013

8016

ViciLockhart said:
Well the crest isn't the only thing i don't know 2 random things :

-Why Fremy didn't have as a target Mora ( well maybe Mora was after Chamo on list )
-How Mora and Fremy are involved in the incident that have place in Adlet village .

But still much thing i don't know will be trigger for me to pick up Novel and enjoying reading it so giving much hints and few answers works for the sake of this show :P ..

Fremy definitely had Mora in his target list.
Mora was already i nthe top five of the most powerful saints currently living like 13 years ago I think. And she didn't slack her training since then.
Simply, Fremy never went until the end of her list. She failed to assassinate her most important target, and never went further in the list due to the fiends attacking her afterwards. Goldof, Nashetania, Mora, most probably a few other saints/warriors were definitely in the list, with various priorities.

For Adlet's village, Mora already said to Fremy in episode 8 that she heard about it but by the time the news came to her, it was already too late to act and no proof to act either.
Fremy was created under the order of the same Fiends that was involved with Adlet's village, but the villagers were not killed by fiends, they killed each other or surrendered.

flannan said:

Zefyris said:

fog science

Chiyousagi said:

...... A fog is not the result of temperature DROP. NEVER.

Fog formation is when temperature approach a nice number, known as DEW POINT(which essentially refers to the temperature for air to be 100% saturated). This value varies for place to place, and is really not relevant in this case except for judging whether should fog even be able to form naturally. ie Dew point of area is 90C and therefore it is total bullshit to claim fog is forming at that area unless proven temperature of that area also can reach 90C.

So back to our RNY universe. I am following exactly the telling of the anime. Obviously the area around the temple has to be naturally fog 24/7, or if not, during the day.

Remember the Sun Saint is used to raise the temperature to above what is natural. Let me use arbitrary value just for the sake of example.

Dew point of area=25C
Natural temp of area surround temple=26C
Fiend force Sun Saint to raise temp=32C

Now if you kill off the Sun Saint, temp will naturally drop from 32C back to 26C, which is close to dew point and thus fog will form.

If Natural temp of area surround temple=10C
and you force Sun Saint to raise temp to around 24C, fog will also form.

So I hope you understand that fog formation is not due to temperature DROP.

As for why the area is naturally fogged, I don't think any further explanation is needed.
Killing off Sun Saint means no one is manipulating the temperature anymore thus temp will revert back to default. And the only way for fog to form must be the default temp is suitable for fog formation.

As for the rest of your post trying to reason out why there is no conflict in magical fog in an area that is fogged, I never even fault that in the first place.

What I said was although everything was made logically, it seems to be forced. Meaning the flow isn't perfect.

The thing that seems out of place is why will the Salt Saint do such a thing? Setting it up such when the barrier is activated, a magical fog will form in an area that is already naturally fogged. Like you have observed, there is no difference, precisely because there is already fog over there. So in this case, the whole point of the magical fog appearing was just force in for no reason other then "plot purpose"

Okay, thanks both of you, I stand corrected.
Question : does the dew point varies with the amount of particle in the air then (since it's said that it's easier for the fog to form in those situation).
Not only is that a forest, and near the sea, but bombs threw in the air a lot of particles right before it. So wondering exactly in which places does that play.
Rising temperature raises also the dew points, alright. Which means that even if the area is usually not fogged, they technically can create flash fog there due to that since it's changing the prerequisites for it to happen. Bu what is the "content' of the air doing in this then?

1) The only weather-manipulation technique involving spreading something in the air that I know is inducing rain by "seeding" clouds with particles that serve as condensation centers and cause fog to become rain.
2) At a first glance, it doesn't seem that adding anything to air will meaningfully decrease its ability to retain water vapor. If you really want to, your best bet is adding water.
3) Weather manipulation not involving magic is most likely beyond the reach of pseudo-medieval world science. They have neither the theory, nor the resource base for the massive experimentation necessary.

So I don't think bombs had any fog-inducing effect.

Dariamus said:
By raising the temperature, you raise the amount of moisture in the air, increasing the dew point. Given this is a swamp, the extra moisture is readily available.

From my knowledge of geography, the area is very unlikely to be a swamp. But with sea, forest and streams in it, it should be quite moist.

I see. What's weird is that I read completely opposed stuff elsewhere on that point, saying clearly that things like salt carried in the air (since close to the sea) were actually a positive effect on the possibility of creating a flash fog, and that the bombs threw in the air a lot of particles too that could help it as well, so that's a bit confusing imo..

Sep 17, 2015 3:00 PM

#805

Offline

Apr 2013

8016

InstaKiller said:

ViciLockhart said:

Maybe barrier stopping them ? :P .. Barriers from definition prevents from anything get out and in so when the barrier was up they can't leave even when they stand at the edge .As for the fog the first one that show up was a normal fog that the only purpose was to make braves think that a barrier was activated ( explained in this episode ) .

I don't like the answer "it works because it works"
We saw adlet and hans scouting around after the activation and they end up doing circles so it's heavily implied that fog has special properties that prevents them of finding the edge and yet bunny and goldof found the edge somehow and they still can't get out, what stops them? Is fog they can pass through it or at least try and see what happens

Hans and Adlet were trying to leave the fog area. They were quite away from the temple.
The place Goldof and NAshetnaia was the rendezvous point , but not yet at the edge of the barrier (if you look back at the map, you will see the difference.
HEre is a map I used to show back in episode 5 where everyone was at the moment where the temple was attacked (it's approximative obviously, but uses various info given in the episodes 3-4-5 as a sources):

As you can see, the red circle goes further away than the place where Mora and Hans were. While Nashetania and Goldof were definitely closer to the edge than almost anyone else at that time (except for Adlet and Hans when they tested the barrier, that is), they were still away from the border. The barrier in the west actually goes a little inside the fiends territory on that side if you look at the map, whereas goldof and NAshetania were still on the human side.

The fog's way to work has been demonstrated episode 5. YES, if you try to leave it you're run in circle and won't manage to leave it. Same if you try to enter. So as long as you don't get close of the border of the barrier, it doesn't affect you.
Actually the "run in circle" part is the effect of the saint of illusion rather than the saint of fog (as he was mentioned with the other in episode 3) but that doesn't really changes anything for the story so well ~

ZefyrisSep 17, 2015 3:06 PM

Sep 17, 2015 3:08 PM

#806

Offline

Aug 2015

228

Zefyris said:
Fremy definitely had Mora in his target list.
Mora was already i nthe top five of the most powerful saints currently living like 13 years ago I think. And she didn't slack her training since then.
Simply, Fremy never went until the end of her list. She failed to assassinate her most important target, and never went further in the list due to the fiends attacking her afterwards. Goldof, Nashetania, Mora, most probably a few other saints/warriors were definitely in the list, with various priorities.

For Adlet's village, Mora already said to Fremy in episode 8 that she heard about it but by the time the news came to her, it was already too late to act and no proof to act either.
Fremy was created under the order of the same Fiends that was involved with Adlet's village, but the villagers were not killed by fiends, they killed each other or surrendered.

Then i found it suprising that Mora/Chamo wasn't higher on her list .. Some archer guy well let's say she was training on them for stronger targets like Mora/Chamo.
Anyway now i found my idea stupid now because Mora could be just to well protected at Temple.

Also yeah i know it was episode 8 then i start to think that one of them Fremy/Mora was part of it somehow ..

Thx for reply :)

Sep 17, 2015 3:25 PM

#807

Offline

Apr 2013

8016

Chamo was her most important target. She said it herself. The one she wasn't allowed to fail at killing, in fact. Yet she didn't try to kill her first. Which means that power wasn't the only thing in the order she killed them. Maybe she did it by country (logical), cleaning a country before going to the next, or maybe she was killing those she knew where they were as the info were coming to her. Either way, while her list's priority was in order of power, she didn't start with the most difficult to kill.

Sep 17, 2015 4:46 PM

#808

GSupernova

Offline

Jul 2014

118

Here is problem with your suggestion, even if they smashed the body or cut it up the Fiends wouldn't be able to touch it anymore. Because her blood would be everywhere which cause too much damage them on contract. They have leave it where it is and it would discovered in just few minutes by the smell. There is no reward in that, only risk. Your method is just asking to leave unintentional traces all over the place compared to what we have no obvious evidence could be found because the body is still intact .

Consideration of how much damage it would cause them is basically irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The whole plan was that the fiend had to die - so the lethal aspect of a saint's blood has no bearing on the plan at all. In fact, it only helps to facilitate killing the fiend.

Second, how the fuck is a pile of blood and gore in the middle of a field of dead fiends, blood, and gore going to be detected in a few minutes "by the smell"? Does saint blood have a distinct smell now too?

Sep 17, 2015 8:28 PM

#809

Yangbo

Offline

Feb 2013

This anime is beyond bad which led me to read the light novel.
I'm just done, plot is unsalvageable at this point.

Sep 17, 2015 8:33 PM

#810

Tylaen

Offline

Apr 2015

4825

Yangbo said:
This anime is beyond bad which led me to read the light novel.
I'm just done, plot is unsalvageable at this point.

Someone Is salty.

Sep 17, 2015 10:06 PM

#811

Senmonka_Ecchi

Offline

May 2015

I Am The Seventh.

Ecchi Desu

Sep 17, 2015 11:42 PM

#812

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

Zefyris said:
I see. What's weird is that I read completely opposed stuff elsewhere on that point, saying clearly that things like salt carried in the air (since close to the sea) were actually a positive effect on the possibility of creating a flash fog, and that the bombs threw in the air a lot of particles too that could help it as well, so that's a bit confusing imo..

I'm not an expert on weather manipulation, so my knowledge is incomplete.
A brief search on Wikipedia says that fog is indeed affected by particles in the air, like salt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog#Sea_and_coastal_fog . That was unobvious, but seems possible.

Sep 17, 2015 11:47 PM

#813

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

Tylaen said:

Yangbo said:
This anime is beyond bad which led me to read the light novel.
I'm just done, plot is unsalvageable at this point.

Someone Is salty.

I'd say Yangbo is just not the kind of person who likes this kind of fiction. It is a mystery story first, and epic fantasy adventure second. Not what everybody would like.
Also, Yangbo may be unhappy that his/her favorite character is the 7th.

Sep 17, 2015 11:53 PM

#814

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

GSupernova said:

The problem is, since saint blood is neurotoxin, the fiend won't be able to eat up the corpse, and instead it will collapse somewhere in the middle of stomping it. They won't be able to bury it, or hide it in a tree, and so on.

GSupernova said:

Second, how the fuck is a pile of blood and gore in the middle of a field of dead fiends, blood, and gore going to be detected in a few minutes "by the smell"? Does saint blood have a distinct smell now too?

Chances are, it does. Or Adlet has a tool to detect saint blood. Or Fremy can just touch it and suffer the effects.
But as I said above, half-stomped Riura is going to be very noticeable among the fiend corpses that are mostly killed by swords and bullets.

Sep 18, 2015 1:50 AM

#815

fyapowa

Offline

Feb 2013

apokaliz500 said:
Actually, to me the phrase itself doesn't sound neither as deactivation phrase nor as an activation phrase. To me it sounded more like she's trying to make the barrier listen to her commands, because when she said "turn off!" multiple times a few seconds ago, the barrier didn't listen.

If we're going to assume she's the 7th and that phrase really activates the barrier, why would Nashetania go so crazy to start breaking stuff when she could just say this line in the same manner she said "turn off!" a few seconds ago? This way it would look much less suspicious than going berserk. And if you want to commit a crime and not be suspected, you should do your job as secretly as possible, no? If anything, behaving more supiciously than it is absolutely necessary is a bad move for the bad guy no matter how you look at it.

remember that the way to activate the barrier that they were taught was a lie, so out all people she broke the tablet, slashed the paper, and then says i will be the mistress to the barrier it just way too much of a coincidence. And also if u noticed her character personality sways way to drastically between instances, and also she lied about hans calling her a princess before he knew about her to goldov in the forest when they were trying to prove adlets innocence.e

Sep 18, 2015 2:12 AM

#816

Gensan

Offline

Jul 2014

2431

looks at the forum, RnY's definitely the most popular anime in this season. i hope they adapt 2nd volume too.

Sep 18, 2015 2:54 AM

#817

Offline

Sep 2014

248

fyapowa said:
remember that the way to activate the barrier that they were taught was a lie, so out all people she broke the tablet, slashed the paper, and then says i will be the mistress to the barrier it just way too much of a coincidence. And also if u noticed her character personality sways way to drastically between instances, and also she lied about hans calling her a princess before he knew about her to goldov in the forest when they were trying to prove adlets innocence.e

Yes, it was a lie, so it can be as simple as just pulling out the sword as well.
So we're going to assume all those three things are needed to activate the barrier? I had this conversation already, but assuming that breaking the tablet activates the barrier creates a problem:
Let's assume the barrier was designed that you need to break the tablet to activate it. How exactly do you deactivate it, then? You cannot undo breaking something in half. Then let's assume that deactivation itself is irrelevant to the tablet, so you can deactivate it, ok. But then, if you want to activate again, what do you exactly do? Because you cannot break the table in half anymore, as it is already broken. It seems unreasonable to assume barrier designers designed it in a way you can do it only once. Not only it could be used 300(?) years later for the next time Demon God revives, but in a war there is a lot of unknown and unexpected, so you can never know if there won't be a situation you have to deactivate barrier and then activate it again. So either designers were idiots or the tablet is really irrelevant to the activation.
Pulling out the sword would be much better idea, since you can pull it out, put it in and so on as many times as you wish.

I never bought that "she swiches personalities" thing. She behaves differently based on who she talks to, yes, but that's completely normal thing, isn't it? I mean I do it all the time, of course I behave differently depending on person I encounter, I have different relationships with them, obviously. And that doesn't mean I plan to destroy the world or commit a mass murder on my friends. About her unnatural behaviour at various times, that also was talked about already but she herself mentions her father wanted to kill her when she was a kid and she had to run away and hide in forest many days. That kind of thing can traumatize you hard, so her just being emotionally instable isn't out of the question at all.

The fact someone lied doesn't make them 7th. With that logic, Mora would be 7th as well, since she lied hard. The fact someone is lying doesn't automatically mean they have bad intentions. She could either really believe Hans said it, because she really wanted to believe he's a bad guy, or she deliberately lied to Goldof because she couldn't find any better proof but she had to "save Adlet-san no matter what because he CAN'T be the 7th".

Aside from those there is one more thing: Nashetania was the first that brought up Riura in this show. She was the one that told Adlet about her being missing. Why? If she's the 7th, why would she give Adlet hints about the plan? Without that knowledge, Adlet would probably never figure it out. So Nashetania is either a very dumb villain or she's innocent.

Also about Goldof, in episode 2 Nashetania said there has been no word from him for six weeks. In other words, we don't know where exactly he was by the time Riura went missing. Nashetania doesn't know, either. Sure, he was on a journey to find Brave-Killer for six months already, but he stopped sending letters since six weeks ago. He had more than enough time to kidnap Riura.

apokaliz500Sep 18, 2015 2:58 AM

Sep 18, 2015 3:33 AM

#818

Offline

Aug 2015

228

apokaliz500 said:
Then let's assume that deactivation itself is irrelevant to the tablet, so you can deactivate it, ok. But then, if you want to activate again, what do you exactly do? Because you cannot break the table in half anymore, as it is already broken. It seems unreasonable to assume barrier designers designed it in a way you can do it only once. Not only it could be used 300(?) years later for the next time Demon God revives

If you activate a barrier let's say by breaking the tablet it doesn't mean that in order to deactivate it you will need tablet as well . put in an out sword makes sense but what if Mora enters temple 2 days ago and pull it out and then in ? they plan would be failed in the start that's why in my opinion it isn't activation .
i will still go " i will be a mistress of the barrier " but that doesn't mean that to deactivate it 7 need to speak words " i'm no longer mistress of the barrier"

As for the designers i will stay to my theory that it was build by Humans who sided with Fiends ( maybe not completely but they could change some t hings ) that's why Mora and king didn't know details.then it could be one time used if Fiends with this time and Majin awake they don't need another 300 years .

apokaliz500 said:
Aside from those there is one more thing: Nashetania was the first that brought up Riura in this show. She was the one that told Adlet about her being missing. Why? If she's the 7th, why would she give Adlet hints about the plan? Without that knowledge, Adlet would probably never figure it out. So Nashetania is either a very dumb villain or she's innocent.

She brought that in episode 1 that there is Brave killer and mention 3/4 persons killed .So when in episode 2 Adlet asked about another victims she brought that up . why ? :
-She couldn't know that brave killer become brave she thought that Adlet will never meet that person and will think she was killed
-She could lie of course but then there was a possibility that someone other will
mention Riura goes missing.

Sep 18, 2015 3:35 AM

#819

TheShiniKamiZ

Offline

Jan 2015

Im pretty sure its Nashetania in the episode 4 minute 16 you can see her activating the barrier

Sep 18, 2015 5:03 AM

#820

Offline

Sep 2014

248

ViciLockhart said:
If you activate a barrier let's say by breaking the tablet it doesn't mean that in order to deactivate it you will need tablet as well . put in an out sword makes sense but what if Mora enters temple 2 days ago and pull it out and then in ? they plan would be failed in the start that's why in my opinion it isn't activation .
i will still go " i will be a mistress of the barrier " but that doesn't mean that to deactivate it 7 need to speak words " i'm no longer mistress of the barrier"

As for the designers i will stay to my theory that it was build by Humans who sided with Fiends ( maybe not completely but they could change some t hings ) that's why Mora and king didn't know details.then it could be one time used if Fiends with this time and Majin awake they don't need another 300 years .

If Mora would go and went into the temple using the key:
1. Everyone would know that someone was there, as those door cannot be closed after opened once, as stated by Hans.
2. If Mora would activate the barrier and then deactivate it, her connection to the altair would be severed and a different person would be able to activate it again. According to what Mora says, only the person who activated the barrier can deactivate it, but nobody said that after deactivation noone else can activate it.

Also nobody said king doesn't know details. He only didn't tell them to Hans. As Mora said, the king is a very secretive man so it's understanable his paranoia was high enough for him to not to tell Hans.
I guess I'm not able to disproove the theory that temple was built by traitors, but we don't have any hints for that either. Not to mention we at least know Uspa wasn't a traitor, since demons wondered if Fremy should kill her or not as a Brave candidate.

ViciLockhart said:
She brought that in episode 1 that there is Brave killer and mention 3/4 persons killed .So when in episode 2 Adlet asked about another victims she brought that up . why ? :
-She couldn't know that brave killer become brave she thought that Adlet will never meet that person and will think she was killed
-She could lie of course but then there was a possibility that someone other will
mention Riura goes missing.

Nashetania had no way of knowing for sure how Adlet would interpret Riura being missing. Considering that other people were just killed and Riura's body was nowhere to be found, something would be definitely fishy here.
She could easily say "there were no other victims" and then if Adlet gets to know that Riura is missing she'd say "well, yes, she is missing, I didn't mention it because we have no proof she was killed by demons/Brave-Killer" and nobody would really have any reason to suspect her because of that.
So honestly, telling about Riura was much more risky than not telling.

apokaliz500Sep 18, 2015 5:07 AM

Sep 18, 2015 5:17 AM

#821

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

apokaliz500 said:
I guess I'm not able to disproove the theory that temple was built by traitors, but we don't have any hints for that either. Not to mention we at least know Uspa wasn't a traitor, since demons wondered if Fremy should kill her or not as a Brave candidate.

It's not Fremy's demons that set up the barrier trap. It's some other group of demons, who did not tell Fremy's group about their plans.

Sep 18, 2015 5:26 AM

#822

Offline

Aug 2015

228

apokaliz500 said:
2. If Mora would activate the barrier and then deactivate it, her connection to the altair would be severed and a different person would be able to activate it again. According to what Mora says, only the person who activated the barrier can deactivate it, but nobody said that after deactivation noone else can activate it.

Yeah but then she would maybe discover deactivation for barrier or was trapped there all alone if she didn't find out how to deactivate it( that way no one would be able to enter the demons lands so maybe indeed activation is simple pull out sword ) .we will see soon enough but i will stay with :
-pull out sword
-drop blood on altar
-speak words " i will be mistress of the barrier "
as for how to deactivate it : i don't have clue

ViciLockhartSep 18, 2015 5:34 AM

Sep 18, 2015 5:44 AM

#823

Offline

Sep 2014

248

But honestly there was no reason Mora should go to the temple. The plan was that Braves go to the entrance to the Land of Howling Demons, not to the temple, so why would they assume she'd go there? Lauren only gave her a key so one Brave goes to activate the temple if soldiers at the fortress are defeated, at least that was the official version Mora heard, so yeah, she had no reason to go there.

Yeah true, we'll see. Honesly I don't know for sure, it may be Nashetania as well, but since a few things would make no sense if she's the 7th (problems with barrier activation if that's Nashetania, her not dropping the act when she's alone with Adlet in episode 11 and her telling him abour Riura), I'm leaning more towards Goldof.

Sep 18, 2015 5:51 AM

#824

Offline

Aug 2015

228

Mora could just go to the temple to investigate you never know what human will do .Lauren couldn't be 100 % sure that Mora will not use key until 7 gets there ..

And i more towards Nashetania yeah fact some of her actions won't make sense at that time and can be unanswered and questionable.If i may ask what problems you see with activation if it's Nashetania ??

Edit: i didn't say that fiends agents build all of the temple only change some things for they plan . they couldn't do that alone because they need help of the King to build it as well as temple ( saint of illusion /seal )

ViciLockhartSep 18, 2015 5:55 AM

Sep 18, 2015 6:03 AM

#825

Offline

Sep 2014

248

But there wasn't anything for her to investigate. The plan was simple. Braves go to the entrance to the demon land, they give some signal once 6 gather, they go into the land, then soldiers activate the barrier. Mora has no reason to go there, she would be just wasting time and possibly delaying Braves' journey, which would be a bad move considering that time is essential in that mission.

About Nashetania and activation, we have two options:
1. Activation requires breaking the tablet.
2. Activation doesn't require breaking the tablet.

1. This I already explained - that would imply the barrier can be used only once and there is no reason designers would do that. About some traitors changing the barrier activation process:
-How do you even do that? There is no hint something like that can be even done.
-They'd need to go to the temple, hence the door would be open. And we cannot assume Seal Saint was a trailor, because she's dead for 4 years. Unless we assume that the barrier was reprogrammed earlier than 4 years ago, but still, no hint it can be done.
2. This I also explained, but a bit earlier in this thread - if tablet isn't needed, why did Nashetania break it? The more stuff she does by the altair, the more suspicious it gets and the higher the chance she'll be suspected. If the only thing she needed to do was saying the phrase, then she didn't need to go into a berserk mode. Remember the manner in which she said "stop", while just holding a sword above the altair? She was nervious, but not crazy at that time. She could randomly throw in the "mistress" phrase at that time and not go crazy like she did. So if the phrase is only thing she needed to do, she deliberately made herself more suspicious than it was really needed. So again, she's either a dumb villain or innocent.

apokaliz500Sep 18, 2015 6:23 AM

Sep 18, 2015 6:27 AM

#826

Offline

Aug 2015

228

1-Yeah if activation equires breaking the tablet it can be used only once at that time however i don't see it like a problem if fiends change the activation and win this time why would they care about using barrier again ?
2-They must have change something in temple without question .Ok you said it yourself that the King might knew about the details behind barrier and we know that Lauren is lying and also Mora was checking tablet and inscription if there was something different than Lauren told them i'm sure she will point that out she didn't so in my guess Lauren's men was inside a temple.

That's only my speculation but i'm stay with it since episode 8 i won't change this now:P ..
Still you making good point with Nashetania making a mistakes ( if she's 7 ). like for example give Adlet information later comes useful for him .

Sep 18, 2015 6:31 AM

#827

Offline

Sep 2014

248

1 - Well, yes, if they really did reprogram the barrier somehow, that makes sense, I agree. But still my point is nobody in the show ever hinted something like that is possible, that's why I'm sceptical about that.
2 - But again according to Hans, if Lauren's men were in the temple, they wouldn't be able to close the door.

Well I guess that's ok :P It's not like I can actually proove it's not Nashetania so I'm getting ready for the option it will turn out to be her. I may have multiple arguments why it's weird if she's the one, but I have no definite proof, either. The fact that Goldof was away when Riura was kidnapped is also just an argument and not a proof yet.

Sep 18, 2015 6:46 AM

#828

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

I must repeat that we have no reason to assume that barrier that large can me made re-useable with technomagic available.

Sep 18, 2015 6:52 AM

#829

Offline

Sep 2014

248

You mean activated, deactivated, then activated again? If we go with that logic, we have no reason to assume it cannot, either.

Sep 18, 2015 9:19 AM

#830

Offline

Aug 2015

228

apokaliz500 said:
1 - Well, yes, if they really did reprogram the barrier somehow, that makes sense, I agree. But still my point is nobody in the show ever hinted something like that is possible, that's why I'm sceptical about that.

Exactly we now litle about how most things works in this world .

apokaliz500 said:
2 - But again according to Hans, if Lauren's men were in the temple, they wouldn't be able to close the door.

If this was done 4 + years ago it was possible to enter and restored seals.

i rewatch episode 9 and i love Hans behavior :D :
Mora:that would make you a 7 , correct ?
Hans: ohh. You might be right :D

But to the point these things buried ( to raise barrier) have seals like this in the temple but in the temple we have only blue seals here apppears red . we have been told that it's impossible to create 2 barriers in the same place. so now my question what does that red seals mean ?

Sep 18, 2015 12:40 PM

#831

Offline

Sep 2014

248

Nice observation. But I honestly think those blue letters in the temple and those on the stakes are irrelevant. I think there are two colours beause one is for Fog Saint's power and the second for Illusion Saint's power.

Sep 18, 2015 1:32 PM

#832

TragicRomance

Offline

May 2010

8098

Idk the animation was fine. You guys probably haven't seen the worst.

Adlet kicking Nashetanya in the face was so satisfying.

Next episode is the big reveal... which most of us probably already know. Well, in my case, I have known since episode 3. I was surprised back then, but not now, because I feel like I would have still doubted "that person" even if I wasn't spoiled.

Sep 18, 2015 1:39 PM

#833

Offline

Sep 2014

248

Does anyone remember if the show ever stated how much time has passed between Fremy running away from Chamo (since she couldn't kill her) and now?

Sep 18, 2015 2:13 PM

#834

Offline

Aug 2015

228

apokaliz500 said:
Does anyone remember if the show ever stated how much time has passed between Fremy running away from Chamo (since she couldn't kill her) and now?

nope it wasn't be mention ..

Sep 18, 2015 2:36 PM

#835

Offline

Apr 2013

8016

apokaliz500 said:
Does anyone remember if the show ever stated how much time has passed between Fremy running away from Chamo (since she couldn't kill her) and now?

Around 6 months. It was mentioned.

For the two colors, it's probably just the animestaff thinking it was prettier that way.

apokaliz500 said:
You mean activated, deactivated, then activated again? If we go with that logic, we have no reason to assume it cannot, either.

We have hints. Like the fact that the seal itself is made in a way that cannot be restored again. If the barrier could be used several times rather than only once, using a seal that can only be used once would be a little weird.

ZefyrisSep 18, 2015 2:42 PM

Sep 18, 2015 3:11 PM

#836

Offline

Sep 2014

248

Zefyris said:
Around 6 months. It was mentioned.

Where exactly was it mentioned? Also it's kinda ironic that Goldof started looking for a Brave-Killer pretty much at the same time Fremy stopped being one XD

Zefyris said:
We have hints. Like the fact that the seal itself is made in a way that cannot be restored again. If the barrier could be used several times rather than only once, using a seal that can only be used once would be a little weird.

Honestly, using that kind of seal is weird no matter if the barrier can be used multiple times or not. Why would the Seal Saint use more of her magic to add one more rule? Like, what is so bad about being able to close the door?

Sep 18, 2015 3:41 PM

#837

Offline

Apr 2013

8016

It was at the very last mentioned episode 11 when Adlet explain his theory.

No, it can only make perfect sense in the case of a one-use barrier.
One thing you didn't catch here (because of CR's poor translation) is that the seal is made "extremely sturdy but IN EXCHANGE once it's open, it can never be closed again" (Hans, end of episode 5). The saint of Seal traded off the ability of the seal to be used several time in exchange for the especially high sturdiness.
Hans qualify the resulting work of "extremely well made".
(FYI the bombs adlet uses are better than any bomb other peoples can use, they are specially made using Atro's teaching, and he put like 5 in the keyhole)

Sep 18, 2015 3:59 PM

#838

Offline

Sep 2014

248

Ok, this way it makes sense Seal Saint went for such a deal. But still, it seems unreasonable that designers decided to make the barrier to be "only once" thing. For example let's assume 6 Braves go into the demon land and one soldier activates the barrier right after they do. If there were any demons hiding in the forest, they could go and kill the soldier, and the barrier would be automatically disabled. Wouldn't it make the barrier plan kinda weak one if they cannot even activate it again sending another soldier? Thought I guess if we assume that creating a multiple times usable barrier is just impossible PERIOD, it makes sense. Although we have no proof it works like that since show never stated it and the seal hint is only a hint, it would make sense at least.

If it's true that barrier can be used only once, I guess I'll go back to suspecting Nashetania mainly. Because this way if we assume that barrier activation process is "break the tablet using the sword", it doesn't contradict anything and also gives a purpose for the tablet to be in the altair. The biggest problem I had with my "just pull out the sword" theory was the fact that it would make it pointless for that tablet to be there in the first place.

Thought I have to say that if it's Nashetania it's kind of annoying from the perspective of a viewer that actually tried hard to figure out "how 7th did that", since most of people who ignored the temple and decided to try to guess based on behaviour would mainly suspect Nashetania, because she was behaving the most suspiciously of them all. Not to mention it's still weird she didn't drop the act while about to kill Adlet and also it's weird that she gave Adlet the info about Riura, without which he wouldn't be able to figure out the plan.

apokaliz500Sep 18, 2015 4:08 PM

Sep 18, 2015 4:13 PM

#839

Offline

Aug 2015

228

You are rude for me :(( ;P i focused mainly on temple and before temple episodes 2-6 all i need for my suspect.. that 6 months was also mentioned by Nashetania ( episode 2 ) but the accurate time of Fremy leave fiends side it's uknown but it could be 4-6 months ...

So that red runes/seals means nothing shame and i was thinking about that Lauren could lie in 50 % :P

ViciLockhartSep 18, 2015 4:18 PM

Sep 18, 2015 4:21 PM

#840

Offline

Sep 2014

248

Well, I was mainly interested in when Fremy stopped carrying out the mission. If she run away 6 months ago, that was the moment she stopped, because she run to her mother instead of running to kill other Brave candidates. I wanted that info so I can try to connect it somehow to Goldof being away. And honestly it's even weirder now I think about it. So Fremy fought Chamo 6 months ago, right? So that was the time Chamo learned her name and appearance. That was also around the time Goldof went away for his journey for clues. It took him more than 4 months to go to Chamo for info? Because we know that Chamo and Goldof met before meeting in the temple, also I think we can assume Chamo was the only one that knew Fremy's name. If Chamo met Fremy 6 months ago, why didn't Goldof go to Chamo for that long? Remember that 6 weeks ago he still didn't have any clues, as he sent Nashetania a letter "no clues".

Sep 18, 2015 4:26 PM

#841

Offline

Aug 2015

228

That's why i gave 4-6 months also ( fremy left )but it could be 2 months ago as well .. Goldov well maybe he was visit every place where brave killer attacked ( he cosplay Holmesback that time :P ) it too k him some time. Fremy at episode 6/7 ( not sure) " I even fall for her provocation and her my name " . Also when Nashetania mention that she didn't get any letter from Goldov for 6 weeks . Goldov could first go back to castle so he may lost more time .

Edit: episode 4 info :P fremy killed 2 saints 1 archer and several other people ( potential braves) she also mention that Goldov and Nashetania was also on her list but she never heard about Adlet

ViciLockhartSep 18, 2015 4:34 PM

Sep 18, 2015 4:33 PM

#842

Offline

Sep 2014

248

Chamo is a person who'd brag about her achievements and won fights. I'm sure the word about Chamo surviving the Brave Killer incident would spread quickly. If Chamo is the only survivor of the Brave-Killing, it would be only a common sense to go to her first. Yet Goldof takes over 4 months to do that. Still kinda weird.

Sep 18, 2015 4:57 PM

#843

AshuraSan

Offline

Oct 2012

Tylaen said:
Obligatory meme In honor of Adlet;

was gonna look for this. adelet best male char aw yis~
i still feel like it was goldov whose the seventh at this point. @@

Sep 18, 2015 9:37 PM

#844

BaronVonPwny

Offline

Apr 2012

ViciLockhart said:
That's why i gave 4-6 months also ( fremy left )but it could be 2 months ago as well .. Goldov well maybe he was visit every place where brave killer attacked ( he cosplay Holmesback that time :P ) it too k him some time. Fremy at episode 6/7 ( not sure) " I even fall for her provocation and her my name " . Also when Nashetania mention that she didn't get any letter from Goldov for 6 weeks . Goldov could first go back to castle so he may lost more time .

Edit: episode 4 info :P fremy killed 2 saints 1 archer and several other people ( potential braves) she also mention that Goldov and Nashetania was also on her list but she never heard about Adlet

One small thing to note: In the novels, Fremy did actually know Adlets name, as after his incident in episode 1, he became infamous as the "Coward Warrior", who could only win a fight with cheap tricks. He wasn't on Fremy's list, because no one thought he was actually strong (except Nashetania, who became his fan after that fight.)

Sep 18, 2015 11:09 PM

#845

Offline

Apr 2013

8016

The whole point of that barrier is to help the heroes that time and that time only to not have the fiends go back at them easily, lowering the attacks on them on the other side. This could only work if fiend don't know about it. IF they know, they're going to act differently obviously. So using it 300 years later isn't an option, they'll come with a countermeasure in between. As a matter of fact, it didn't even work once.

The main point of the detective part of this story isn't to find who, but how, so it was already answered this time though. Who can be deduced right after the how with ease after all. So it's all about out, did you find how, and not, did you find who.
From starters, there was only a few choices for the who, who were restricted more and more as the episode went on, so even blind guessing had a good chance to be spot on. But blind guessing isn't solving a mystery.

ZefyrisNov 22, 2015 1:52 PM

Sep 18, 2015 11:37 PM

#846

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

apokaliz500 said:
Ok, this way it makes sense Seal Saint went for such a deal. But still, it seems unreasonable that designers decided to make the barrier to be "only once" thing. For example let's assume 6 Braves go into the demon land and one soldier activates the barrier right after they do. If there were any demons hiding in the forest, they could go and kill the soldier, and the barrier would be automatically disabled.

The demons cannot enter the temple because of the salt pillars around it. They might try to kill the soldiers inside with projectiles, but fiends aren't good with projectiles, and the temple's walls are strong.

Sep 19, 2015 12:24 AM

#847

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

apokaliz500 said:
Chamo is a person who'd brag about her achievements and won fights. I'm sure the word about Chamo surviving the Brave Killer incident would spread quickly. If Chamo is the only survivor of the Brave-Killing, it would be only a common sense to go to her first. Yet Goldof takes over 4 months to do that. Still kinda weird.

1) Goldof doesn't seem very smart and well-connected.
2) Chamo considers her fight with Fremy her failure: Fremy is the first person whom Chamo wanted to kill, but couldn't.
3) Goldof knows what the Brave Killer looks like, but his objective is to stop the Brave Killer, not to identify her.

Sep 19, 2015 1:35 AM

#848

Offline

Aug 2015

228

BaronVonPwny said:
One small thing to note: In the novels, Fremy did actually know Adlets name, as after his incident in episode 1, he became infamous as the "Coward Warrior", who could only win a fight with cheap tricks. He wasn't on Fremy's list, because no one thought he was actually strong (except Nashetania, who became his fan after that fight.)

They underestimate the strongest man in the world :D .

Sep 19, 2015 3:31 AM

#849