xmvio31 said: A character with plot armor would never die in the first place. Characters with plot armor are immune to death, something always happens to stop them from dieing.A character who has died twice and has lost on multiple occasions could never have the most plot armor.DrGeroCreation said: Goku only died twice though. I don't think you get the idea of ''plot armor''. The fact that he is brought back is what's a plot armor. Dragon balls are the ultimate plot armor for several characters in the series. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor The very fact that he's the main character protects him from death, serious wounds, and generally all lasting harm (until the plot calls for it). Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical, In-Universe explanation |
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FireEmblemIke24 said: Clebardman said: Ichise (?) from Texhnolyze. the guy keeps running into mobs of armed people then you see him bashing an endless stream of dudes 1v1 with a blank background. huh. he was a fucking prizefighter without the mechanical limbs so no wonder he wrecked them singlehandedly At least in 1 fight he is a wreck with 1 leg, 1 arm, 2 dead weights instead of missing limbs , 1v20+ gunmen. And nothing in the directing helped that. Just as I said, backgrounds and opponents tend to disappear during fights in an attempt to hide the plot armor but it just makes things worse. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
DrGeroCreation said: xmvio31 said: A character with plot armor would never die in the first place. Characters with plot armor are immune to death, something always happens to stop them from dieing.A character who has died twice and has lost on multiple occasions could never have the most plot armor.I don't think you get the idea of ''plot armor''. The fact that he is brought back is what's a plot armor. Dragon balls are the ultimate plot armor for several characters in the series. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor The very fact that he's the main character protects him from death, serious wounds, and generally all lasting harm (until the plot calls for it). Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical, In-Universe explanation Your mind is so cartoon-ly simple, it's actually funny. You are taking it literally. This applies to a universe where death has actual consequences and stakes. The meaning of death when it comes to plot armor is that after a character dies, that's it, they end, they can't continue in the current timeline as themselves, they don't appear again. When main characters die but are brought back, that is the very notion of a plot armor, because it protects the characters from something that logically would have ended them for good. For example: X character is facing a giant monster, the monster unleashes an attack that should kill character x, but he survives through a plot device, because the plot needs him to say alive. That's plot armor. X character is facing a giant monster, he self destruct himself and dies with the monster. Later on, a plot device is introduced or already there, brings him back to life. The plot saves him. That's a plot armor. Goku falls under the second example. It's irrelevant whether Goku died or not. The fact remains that he is continues as the protagonist of the story, he can still and was brought back to life multiple times. The death in DBZ verse is not meaningful, because it's not conclusive or definitive. You are really dumb.. |
Last_WaltzSep 12, 2015 12:29 PM
Clebardman said: Ichise (?) from Texhnolyze. the guy keeps running into mobs of armed people then you see him bashing an endless stream of dudes 1v1 with a blank background. huh. It would be funny if that weren't exactly true. |
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_Peksi said: ichii_1 said: guts, they make a big deal how demons and monsters are strong and sht then guts the human kills them XD It's 'cus angry Guts is more of a monster than the actual monsters. wow he's angry and that means he can suddenly beat everyone XD It's like a angry nakama power ;) |
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xmvio31 said: That isn't plot armor at all you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Goku can take injury, he can die for good so he has no plot armor. Goku if he currently dies cannot be brought back with the Dragon Balls considering he has been brought back already.DrGeroCreation said: A character with plot armor would never die in the first place. Characters with plot armor are immune to death, something always happens to stop them from dieing.A character who has died twice and has lost on multiple occasions could never have the most plot armor. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor The very fact that he's the main character protects him from death, serious wounds, and generally all lasting harm (until the plot calls for it). Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical, In-Universe explanation Your mind is so cartoon-ly simple, it's actually funny. You are taking it literally. This applies to a universe where death has actual consequences and stakes. The meaning of death when it comes to plot armor is that after a character dies, that's it, they end, they can't continue in the current timeline as themselves, they don't appear again. When main characters die but are brought back, that is the very notion of a plot armor, because it protects the characters from something that logically would have ended them for good. For example: X character is facing a giant monster, the monster unleashes an attack that should kill character x, but he survives through a plot device, because the plot needs him to say alive. That's plot armor. X character is facing a giant monster, he self destruct himself and dies with the monster. Later on, a plot device is introduced or already there, brings him back to life. The plot saves him. That's a plot armor. Goku falls under the second example. You are really dumb.. |
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| Solid counter point. It feels exactly like talking with someone from elementary school, sigh. The very fact that you admit that only now that he has stakes, makes your argument a self defeating idiocy. They are only stakes the third time he dies. Means the first two were plot armor and meaningless for the most part. Death is not death if it has no direct consequences. |
xmvio31 said: Death is not death if it has no direct consequences. Death Is death irregardless of if it has any consequences afterwards, mate. |
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| Also, eren from attack on titan and mikasa, and armin and levi. |
xmvio31 said: Solid counter point. It feels exactly like talking with someone from elementary school, sigh. The very fact that you admit that only now that he has stakes, makes your argument a self defeating idiocy. They are only stakes the third time he dies. Means the first two were plot armor and meaningless for the most part. Death is not death if it has no direct consequences. It's not just about killing a character or not. Eureka Seven or Texhnolyze fall under the plot armor category because you know nothing can happen to those guys. Gekkostate keeps running into 200v2 ambushes, people get shot but are still alive, nothing matters. Goku CAN die. It's pretty clear from the start of Dragon Ball until the end of Dragon Ball Z. it gives a tension that shows that have obvious plot armor lack. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
xmvio31 said: There are stakes whenever he would die considering without the Dragon Balls he's screwed. You know who has real plot armor Tsud? Naruto who always manages to escape death no matter what.Solid counter point. It feels exactly like talking with someone from elementary school, sigh. The very fact that you admit only know that he has stakes, makes your argument self defeating idiocy. They are only stakes the third time he dies. Means the first two were plot armor and meaningless for the most part. |
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ichii_1 said: _Peksi said: It's 'cus angry Guts is more of a monster than the actual monsters. wow he's angry and that means he can suddenly beat everyone XD It's like a angry nakama power ;) Nah it's actually the opposite of nakama power that drives him aka. power of hate DrGeroCreation said: That isn't plot armor at all you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Goku can take injury, he can die for good so he has no plot armor. Goku if he currently dies cannot be brought back with the Dragon Balls considering he has been brought back already. Well Krillin has died 3 times and it hasn't stopped him from coming back |
Tylaen said: xmvio31 said: Death is not death if it has no direct consequences. Death Is death irregardless of if it has any consequences afterwards, mate. Death is subjective. |
_Peksi said: ichii_1 said: wow he's angry and that means he can suddenly beat everyone XD It's like a angry nakama power ;) Nah it's actually the opposite of nakama power that drives him aka. power of hate Sounds like Nakama's edgy cousin. |
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| Basically most main characters |
AltoRoark99 said: Tylaen said: Death Is death irregardless of if it has any consequences afterwards, mate. Death is subjective. Like everything |
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_Peksi said: He was only brought back the other times because of the Namekian Dragon Balls.Well Krillin has died 3 times and it hasn't stopped him from coming back |
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Clebardman said: xmvio31 said: Solid counter point. It feels exactly like talking with someone from elementary school, sigh. The very fact that you admit that only now that he has stakes, makes your argument a self defeating idiocy. They are only stakes the third time he dies. Means the first two were plot armor and meaningless for the most part. Death is not death if it has no direct consequences. It's not just about killing a character or not. Eureka Seven or Texhnolyze fall under the plot armor category because you know nothing can happen to those guys. Gekkostate keeps running into 200v2 ambushes, people get shot but are still alive, nothing matters. Goku CAN die. It's pretty clear from the start of Dragon Ball until the end of Dragon Ball Z. it gives a tension that shows that have obvious plot armor lack. That's not relevant to what I'm talking about. I didn't say this was the only version of a plot armor. What tension? he can literally be brought back everytime.. Tylaen said: xmvio31 said: Death is not death if it has no direct consequences. Death Is death irregardless of if it has any consequences afterwards, mate. Thank you for that pointless one liner I guess? The consequences I'm talking about is it being final. DrGeroCreation said: xmvio31 said: There are stakes whenever he would die considering without the Dragon Balls he's screwed. You know who has real plot armor Tsud? Naruto who always manages to escape death no matter what.Solid counter point. It feels exactly like talking with someone from elementary school, sigh. The very fact that you admit only know that he has stakes, makes your argument self defeating idiocy. They are only stakes the third time he dies. Means the first two were plot armor and meaningless for the most part. The same dragonball that they can collect in a day? the same dragonball where they are more powerful version of them in other planets? Like what the fuck are you even talking about. We are talking about things that already happened and are done, not an ongoing series, where there is a scenario where dragonball couldn't be collected when he died with Raditz or when he died with cell. And there is a whole after life universe, there is literally nothing final about death in that verse. There was no stakes when Goku died against Radits, because he knowingly sacrificed himself because he knew he can be brought with the dragonball. Getting killed but coming back to life is literally the embodiment of escaping death. |
Last_WaltzSep 12, 2015 12:49 PM
xmvio31 said: The consequences I'm talking about is it being final. Then say that instead. |
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DrGeroCreation said: _Peksi said: He was only brought back the other times because of the Namekian Dragon Balls.Well Krillin has died 3 times and it hasn't stopped him from coming back and? Namekian DBs still exist. They can just use those to revive anyone that can't be revived with earth DBs |
| All of them. The plot (author) protects who they want to regardless of the whining of the fans. Its not like stories right themselves. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| @xmvio31 If both the Namekian and Earth Dragon Balls or their creators are destroyed then they are fucked so there are stakes. There is no plot armor because the plot doesn't stop Goku from dieing like the plot does for Naruto. Naruto got a pile driver in mid air from Sasuke yet still survived, Kabuto struck his heart yet he still survived, Madara pulled out the Kyuubi yet he still survived. |
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_Peksi said: Yet Future Trunks couldn't do that . If both the Namekian and Earth Dragonballs are destroyed then what?DrGeroCreation said: He was only brought back the other times because of the Namekian Dragon Balls. and? Namekian DBs still exist. They can just use those to revive anyone that can't be revived with earth DBs |
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DrGeroCreation said: That isn't plot armor at all you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Goku can take injury, he can die for good so he has no plot armor. Goku if he currently dies cannot be brought back with the Dragon Balls considering he has been brought back already. Every character that was listed in this thread can take injury and Goku won't die anymore exactly because he can't be brought back. Look at the 14th movie, at the end they reveal that his opponent was only using like 50% of his power so Goku should have died in that battle but the plot said that Bills won't take the fight seriously even though he is known to destroy anything in front of him. And just like you said: DrGeroCreation said: The very fact that he's the main character protects him from death, serious wounds, and generally all lasting harm (until the plot calls for it). Death is pretty meaningless in this series because of the Dragon Balls so the important thing in this case is the "lasting harm" part and every time Goku died there was none of that at all. Heck, he even got special training and had the right to fight some of the strongest warriors that ever lived when he was in heaven. |
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DrGeroCreation said: @xmvio31 If both the Namekian and Earth Dragon Balls or their creators are destroyed then they are fucked so there are stakes. There is no plot armor because the plot doesn't stop Goku from dieing like the plot does for Naruto. Naruto got a pile driver in mid air from Sasuke yet still survived, Kabuto struck his heart yet he still survived, Madara pulled out the Kyuubi yet he still survived. You are talking about ''if'', I'm talking about an already finished produced called ''Dragonball' manga or ''Dragon ball z'' the anime'. Your what if scenarios are irrelevant, this isn't a versus argument. The plot does that with the dragon balls, what safes Goku and makes him comeback are the dragonballs, without them Goku would have died and never came back to earth after dying with Raditz. like how are you not even getting that... It's like talking to a bag of rocks. A really dense bag. |
DrGeroCreation said: _Peksi said: Yet Future Trunks couldn't do that . If both the Namekian and Earth Dragonballs are destroyed then what?and? Namekian DBs still exist. They can just use those to revive anyone that can't be revived with earth DBs Well he didn't know where New Namek is. Had they know that, they wouldn't have needed the time machine. Then they learn about another Namekian that left the planet and just happens to able to create DBs. Also Piccolo shot a ki blast right through Gokus chest and he didn't die from that. |
Kruzy said: How do you know that for sure? Can you see into the future?Every character that was listed in this thread can take injury and Goku won't die anymore exactly because he can't be brought back. Kruzy said: Beerus never intended to kill Goku but meet the super saiyan god in his dream. If Beerus had intended from the beginning to kill Goku and then at the last minute didn't kill him then that would be plot armor.Look at the 14th movie, at the end they that his opponent was only using like 50% of his power so Goku should have died in that battle but the plot said that Bills won't take the fight seriously even though he is known to destroy anything in front of him. Kruzy said: Yet in Future Trunks timeline everyone is dead . Goku is always at risk at harm no matter who he fights.Death is pretty meaningless in this series because of the Dragon Balls so the important thing in this case is the "lasting harm" part and every time Goku died there was none of that at all. Heck, he even got special training and had the right to fight some of the strongest warriors that ever lived when he was in heaven. |
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LionCake said: Aldnoah fucking zero. Everyone. S1 ended with 3 main characters getting shot and they all live. All of the terran mechs explode at the slightest touch except for ones piloted by main characters. Its retarded Even then they all just stand around screaming and shooting at random until Robo-kun comes along with his magical eyeball to save the day. HE HAS A TRAINING MECH AND DESTROYS THE ENEMIES LIKE THEY ARE NOTHING. This anime wouldn't have been so bad if Robo-kun actually had a personality and struggled. Slaine felt more real which is why he is the only main character I loved he suffered,struggled, and had personality. Basically everything that was missing from Robo-kun. Too bad he got the worst end of the shit stick writing wise then again its not surprising if you have a shitty Protagonist the Antagonist has to be even shittier to be a shitty foil for the shitty Protagonist. One of the worst anime and mecha I have ever watched. The only two pros was the OST and character/mech designs. |
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD" |
_Peksi said: Even if Trunks had known where it was it would have taken too long to get to and the androids could have stopped him. It only hit his shoulder not any vital part.DrGeroCreation said: Yet Future Trunks couldn't do that . If both the Namekian and Earth Dragonballs are destroyed then what? Well he didn't know where New Namek is. Had they know that, they wouldn't have needed the time machine. Then they learn about another Namekian that left the planet and just happens to able to create DBs. Also Piccolo shot a ki blast right through Gokus chest and he didn't die from that. |
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xmvio31 said: The Dragon Balls are what save him not the plot itself. The plot doesn't bend to protect him from death. LOL this is why you have to use alts because you can't have a conversation with anyone without insulting them and coming off like an aggressive prick.DrGeroCreation said: @xmvio31 If both the Namekian and Earth Dragon Balls or their creators are destroyed then they are fucked so there are stakes. There is no plot armor because the plot doesn't stop Goku from dieing like the plot does for Naruto. Naruto got a pile driver in mid air from Sasuke yet still survived, Kabuto struck his heart yet he still survived, Madara pulled out the Kyuubi yet he still survived. You are talking about ''if'', I'm talking about an already finished produced called ''Dragonball' manga or ''Dragon ball z'' the anime'. Your what if scenarios are irrelevant, this isn't a versus argument. The plot does that with the dragon balls, what safes Goku and makes him comeback are the dragonballs, without them Goku would have died and never came back to earth after dying with Raditz. like how are you not even getting that... It's like talking to a bag of rocks. A really dense bag. |
DrGeroCreationSep 12, 2015 1:22 PM
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| Space Dandy is Basically a god Literally no matter what happens it still continues. |
| Everyone in Fairy Tail |
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DrGeroCreation said: Kruzy said: How do you know that for sure? Can you see into the future?Every character that was listed in this thread can take injury and Goku won't die anymore exactly because he can't be brought back. Because the series has been full of plot armor and it won't stop. DrGeroCreation said: Kruzy said: Beerus never intended to kill Goku but meet the super saiyan god in his dream. If Beerus had intended from the beginning to kill Goku and then at the last minute didn't kill him then that would be plot armor.Look at the 14th movie, at the end they that his opponent was only using like 50% of his power so Goku should have died in that battle but the plot said that Bills won't take the fight seriously even though he is known to destroy anything in front of him. What's the point of looking for a worthy opponent only to fight halfheartedly? And no, it doesn't take for him only to stop at the last second to be considered plot armor. DrGeroCreation said: Kruzy said: Yet in Future Trunks timeline everyone is dead . Goku is always at risk at harm no matter who he fights.Death is pretty meaningless in this series because of the Dragon Balls so the important thing in this case is the "lasting harm" part and every time Goku died there was none of that at all. Heck, he even got special training and had the right to fight some of the strongest warriors that ever lived when he was in heaven. Future Trunks timeline is completely irrelevant and Goku was and never will be at risk of harm. It was shown over 400 episodes and it won't stop just like that. It takes one hell of a fanboy to be this oblivious about faults. |
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| Any battle shounen MC |
DrGeroCreation said: _Peksi said: Even if Trunks had known where it was it would have taken too long to get to and the androids could have stopped him. It only hit his shoulder not any vital part.Well he didn't know where New Namek is. Had they know that, they wouldn't have needed the time machine. Then they learn about another Namekian that left the planet and just happens to able to create DBs. Also Piccolo shot a ki blast right through Gokus chest and he didn't die from that. How would have they stopped him? It's not like they were keeping tabs on Bulma when she was building a time machine. Not to mention that time line is stupid anyway. Goku could have just told King Kai in the afterlife to find New Namek. Then they could have just told them to use the DBs I'm not an expert on anatomy, but I'm pretty sure that's not his shoulder  |
| Kenny from South Park. I swear he has more dragon balls stored up than Goku on steroids. |
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| Shirou from stay night |
| Brace yourself. Soon as LotGH 2017 comes out. The anime community is going to become so cancerous you will need to take cover and hide. |
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