Hunter x Hunter (2011) Episode 135 Discussion

soundscape said:
But Gon is a child with a fucked up sense of morality, so it is coherent and realistic with his character. Should I remind you his view about the Phantom Troupe? He was fine with them killing and being thieves but when he saw that he cared for one another is when he snapped, I think that was a clear indication of how facked up he is.

SightScreen said:


You missed the point of that scene entirely. Gon was angry because of their double standards; they're happy to mercilessly kill people, but when one of their own die, they get angry & seek revenge, which is blatantly hypocritical. Expressing anger to the point of risking his life over their double standards is entirely noble.

His morality was anything but fucked up. He had no morality or personality flaws up until the Ant Arc.

SightScreen said:
This is the most plausible & sensible argument, but I still find his intense hatred toward Pitou jarring; he was even prepared to kill an innocent Komugi.

If Pitou was a truly despicable, pure evil character, that had done more than just kill Gon's friend, his hatred would be more understandable; but the way it unfolded makes him a less realistic, believable character.

SightScreen said:


You missed the point of that scene entirely. Gon was angry because of their double standards; they're happy to mercilessly kill people, but when one of their own die, they get angry & seek revenge, which is blatantly hypocritical. Expressing anger to the point of risking his life over their double standards is entirely noble.

His morality was anything but fucked up. He had no morality or personality flaws up until the Ant Arc.

insan3Inquisitor said:
All I have to say is that, reading the through the manga and going through the series again, it was very easy to see that this sort of explosion (heh....) from Gon was inevitable. But, yeah, not having Kite at the beginning of the series was a bonehead move by Madhouse.

insan3Inquisitor said:
All I have to say is that, reading the through the manga and going through the series again, it was very easy to see that this sort of explosion (heh....) from Gon was inevitable. But, yeah, not having Kite at the beginning of the series was a bonehead move by Madhouse.

Agafin said:
I don't find his behaviour inconsistent with his previous characterization.
He has always been portrayed as someone who could throw away his life for petty things (he's still a naive kid afterall). Just remember when he almost let hanzo kill him during the Hunter exams even though he could easily give up and try again the next year. Or when he allowed his hand to be blown up by the Bomber (genthru) in Greed Island just to land a punch on him. Those types of charatcres are called determinators.
Is that realistical? I don't think so but it's not like in their fictional world, people need to have completely realistical characterizations, they just need to be consistent.

SightScreen said:
Well... Pitou actually did more. She changed him into a puppet and used him as a toy to train the lower ants. Remember that when Gon first meets Pitou while the latter was healing Komugi using Doctor Blythe, his first rection was to think that she was to doing to Komugi "the same thing" she was doing to Kite while having an image of a dissected Kite in mind iirc. I think between a person who kills a relative of yours to defend himself and one who does that for the fun and later plays with his/her body, you will defintely not have the same feelings.

soundscape said:
Not really, he had no issues with them killing people(that is a fucked up sense of morality). When Killua said he was an assassin(meaning he was killing people) Gon hardly even budged, what sense of morality is that?

SightScreen said:
[spoiler]

I don't disagree with any of that. I was just highlighting that his morality wasn't twisted.

SightScreen said:


That's another fair argument, although even after he's convinced she was being healed, he's still clearly behaving like a sociopath without any regard for Komugi, and forces a time limit. Did he magically know how long it would take for her to be healed in order to prevent time wasting?

soundscape said:
What? HxH is pretty similar to our world(there are many parallels drown out during the entire series). In our world people make a living by killing others too you know, what do you mean our rules doesn't apply(we are talking about human psyche, how it doesn't apply?). A dystopia? No.

You do realize that the Nen users in that world are extremely rare? The 99 per cent of people live normal lives similar to our world. People don't have to kill to get by in that world and Gon's sense of morality is fucked up because he grew up in a decent loving home, thus his sense of morality shouldn't be so screwed.

Yeap he got angry because of that, my point was entirely something else.

Agafin said:
This is getting interesting.

1- I think Gon has always been a bit twisted morally but there has never been a situation of this scale to make him go completely insane. There however were several hints. Just remember in the initial phase of the Hunter exams where hehad no qualms about using that Hunter to distract Hisoka of course by killing him) to get Hisoka's tag. Or when he took Ponzu's (bee girl) tag after getting her out of the snake's cave effectively causing her to fail. Of course, this doesn't exactly make him evil but saying that he has "no morality flaws" doesn't seem accurate to me.

Now, there is this scene in the Heavens Arena arc which is rather similar to the Pitou's incident and has imo is perfectly in line with Gon's characterization and shows that he is a bit twisted.

Around the early 30s episodes, Gido (the guy using using tops as weapons) and his two friends kidnapped Zushi and tried to use him force Gon and Killua to abandon their fights. So it was effectively their fault if he was captured and traumatised They managed to get back Zushi and still have their fights. During his fight against Gido, Gon intentionally broke Gido's prosthetic legs NOT TO WIN OR FOR PROTECTION since he was already assured to win the fight, but instead for revenge. This definitely shows some twisted nature imo. Besides, Zushi was just a friend gon made a weeks earlier.

Well, in the CA arc, Pitou attacked Gon, Killua and Kite and cut Kite's arm due to him trying to protect them. He even ordered them to flee away while he was retaining Pitou. So, whatever happend to him during that encounter was partially due to them. Gon and Killua decided to get Kite back only to discover that he had been converted into a puppet. Gon then decided to heal him by capturing the author of that. He did everything in his power to attain that objective nand even managed to find Pitou who garanteed to him that she could him Kite only to discover later that she was lying and Kite was dead all along. he then got mad and decided to take revenge the most gruesome of ways again showing his somehow twisted nature. In this case, Kite wasn't just a friend he made a few weeks ago, he was like a mentor or father figure. he saved Gon's life several years ago and Gon admired him greatly.

These two events imo are very similar and both showed Gon's warped morality as well as how he would react in this type of situations except that the second one was more extreme than the first so of course, the response was more hardcore as well. If Gon could react like that to Gido kidnapping a recent friend of his, then how would he when someone would capture an important person he knew and killed him?

2-I don't think that Gon is evil but I don't believe he had strong morals. He was more like a chaotic neutral imo. Now, it seems to me that you are a bit exxagerating how twisted Gon't actions were (from a moral standpoint). Let's assume for the sake of this argument that Gon is actually a goody two shows. Which actions of his did you consider so jarringly incorrect (morally)? I will list these few points which are commonly brought up to see what exactly you mean to move this discussion forward.

a-When he discovered that Kite was changed into a puppet, did you expected him to just walk away? Of couse not, Kite saved his life and was now in a critical situation due to him (Gon) and the only person who could save him (that's what Gon thought) was Pitou. At least, he would've still attempted to save him. The others (Morel, Knov, Knuckle, Shoot etc) were focused on their mission and would certainly not try to take the risk of capturing a guard alive just for one person so Gon had to do this alone ( well, with Killua). What else should he have done for you to consider it consistent with his preestablished sense of morality (as previously assumed)?

b-When he found Pitou healing Komugi, again did you expected him to just walk away? For all he knew, Komugi was just an enemy and Pitou and Pitou was just trying to heal another potential threat. I mean, we viewers have a god's perspective but it's not like Gon should just guess that Komugi was an innocent blind girl who spent all her time playing a card game with the king. Gon asking Pitou to reduce the healing time was perhaps just a strategy to prevent Pitou from fully healing Komugi since a possibilty existed that she could be an enemy. What did you expected him to do which would be in line with his straight morality while not being completely stupid.

c-When he threatened to kill Komugi after the healing process and later used her as a hostage. I know many can use this to say that he became completely evil but to me it always came off more as a strategy. I mean, Pitou is obviously muèch stronger than him and Pitou had already lied to him (she said that she needed 4 hours to heal Komugi while in reality just one was needed) and even had a strong desire to kill him (bloodlust can be felt in the HxH verse). So, Gon knew that she could very well try to kill him on their way to Kite once she's sure Komugi is safe (which she actually did in the later) so to prevent that he decided to use Pitou as a hostage to force Pitou to obey and heal Kite. Of course, had him killed Pitou, it would've been a totally different story but he didn't and at the end of the day he managed to be sure that Pitou wouldn't try to kill him. He also knew that no matter what Killua and co wouldn't kill Pitou so she was in fact safe but Pitou didn't know. So, I will ask agin, what exactly did he do that makes you think his morality was that much more twisted that it was previously?

d-Finally, when he decided to kill Pitou after discovering that she lied him all along and couldn't save Kite. The act was undeniably done for revenge but then again Pitou was about to kill him so what was there to loss? Either he allows himself being killed by Pitou and of course letting her go and help the king or he uses him trump card (which of needs a huge sacrifice) to kill her and of course get revenge but also free the hunters of a huge threat. Don't forget that Pitou was just about to kill him so Killua would've never made it on time. hell, Gon didn't even know that Killua was coming nor that he had an ability which could permit them to escape (Godspeed). That was like the last thing he could do. So what did you expected him to do here assuming he's a googy two shoes?

I'm just curious because even though I have always considered Gon to be somehow amoral , I never particularly considered his actions in CA so twisted (morally) as you make them seem.

PS. Sorry for typos, grammar etc.

SightScreen said:


Hunter X Hunter's world is a dystopia in case you didn't realize. People make their livings by killing others; our rules & sense of morality doesn't apply to HXH's world.

Baring this in mind, you're claiming Gon has a twisted sense of morality just because he isn't a pacifist. He realizes people need to kill others or do dirty deeds to get by in this world, but doesn't judge them for doing so, which is entirely sensible & why he makes friends so easily. This was very clearly established when befriending the black market dealer.

dark-chaos said:


then we must stop cry for anyone
human kill animals and eat them
all human's are killers

dadzoned said:
Stole this from another forum:

"Also they were practically married during the game of gungi. The way Komugi said "I may not be much, but please, let me accompany you" is an old fashioned phrase that japanese women use when accepting a marriage proposal. Meruem even stated that this was the sole reason he was born, only to experience this moment, where you find someone who's willing to spend the rest of their life with you"

Welp.
Great to know that they were "married"

dadzoned said:
Stole this from another forum:

"Also they were practically married during the game of gungi. The way Komugi said "I may not be much, but please, let me accompany you" is an old fashioned phrase that japanese women use when accepting a marriage proposal. Meruem even stated that this was the sole reason he was born, only to experience this moment, where you find someone who's willing to spend the rest of their life with you"

Welp.
Great to know that they were "married"

Agafin said:
^Yeah, there was alot of symbolism like that in that arc as a whole.

NateXNate said:
Curently rewatching the entire series with a friend, i found out that there are hidden messages between Komugi and Meruem when they play Gungi:

Kokoriko is an advanced Gungi technique developed by Komugi that centers around isolating the King (as in the Gungi piece, not the Chimera Ant), separating it from the other pieces and killing it off. Just like Netero and the Hunters were planning to do to Meruem. However, Komugi unexpectedly develops a counter to this technique in the middle of a game, meaning that the King piece (representing Meruem) no longer has to die (since he unexpectedly survived the nuke). Then, later on, when Komugi uses Kokoriko again, she actually develops a counter to the counter ("she reversed my reversal???"), representing that the King piece (Meruem) apparently actually does have to die after all (because of the Rose's poison). However, immediately after beating Meruem using Kokoriko (symbolizing his imminent death), Komugi and Meruem start one final game together, a game that they never finish. 1-5-1 Black King -> 9-5-1 White Lieutenant General, I believe, or something to that extent. Immediately afterwards, they die together, leaving on the board Meruem's one black piece and Komugi's single white piece, together in Gungi forever. This represents that the two were always united through Gungi, and will continue to be together even after death, undisturbed and united for all eternity. Meruem places his piece down, symbolizing his death, and then Komugi responds by placing her piece down next to his, showing that she is perfectly willing to die at his side..

The black screen/black panels in the manga show that the Rose's poison has made Meruem go blind. That's why he has to keep asking Komugi if she's still there, because he can't see her anymore. This is ironic because his name means "the light that illuminates/shines upon all". He even got some godlike light-related photon-based powers before his death, allowing him to fulfill his name. In addition, as they are playing in the bunker before their deaths, Meruem sees a blinding light radiating from Komugi as she "reverses his reversal", making her "the light that illuminates even the all-powerful light". Despite being far weaker (and blind to boot), her light shined far brighter than his. Then, as he dies, Komugi holds him and feels his head, allowing her to finally "see" or know what his face is like. Thus, as they die, Meruem joins Komugi in blindness as she joins him in death. Meruem can finally see what Komugi has been seeing all along, and knows what it feels like to be blind like her, and Komugi finally knows his face, allowing each to understand the other more as they fade away (the OST used during their death scene is called "Understanding"). Touching, isn't it? Togashi is a mastermind, and this entire story, especially this arc, is a masterpiece, a beautiful work of art, a canvas depicting love, hatred, innocence, corruption, happiness, suffering, loyalty, betrayal, anger, sadness, life, death, malevolence, destruction, resolve, determination, avarice, sacrifice, "true" power, truth, and understanding.

SightScreen said:
This arc was abysmal for the most part.

The plot becomes too complicated for it's own good when it transitions to East Gorteau. There were about 6-7 things going on at once when the Main Characters invaded the Palace, and as a result, the story lacked focus. It's hard to get emotionally involved when your mind has to keep track of too much.

Gon's story was a joke; it was horribly written & completely failed to form an emotional connection. He spent nearly the entire arc trying to heal Kite and/or get revenge for him in a clearly emotional state of mind, something I couldn't connect with as an audience member, because I barely knew Kite, and he hasn't been seen alive for 40-odd episodes. Once it becomes clear Kite's dead, he goes into a mental breakdown & starts reminiscing about his memories with Kite... which are composed of slicing & shooting monsters + that one encounter on Whale Island. There was nothing deep about their relationship and Kite was not a very deep character, which makes Gon's reaction all the more jarring.

As for his transformation, how could anyone take that seriously? He transformed into a JoJo character with the most ridiculous hair you will ever see within the anime medium. The transformation would be significantly more believable if his child-size clothes ripped off & he became butt naked as a result, but alas, Madhouse don't like depicting nudity, and he looks all the more absurd as a result. I was holding back my laughter in that scene, yet the anime retained a stone-cold serious & gritty tone all the way through, completely dissolving an already flimsy emotional connection.

Everything else wasn't too bad; this arc would've been a lot better if it focused on 2-3 characters, one of them being the Ant King, who I found to be the most interesting character by some distance; unfortunately, most of his emotionally captivating scenes were undermined by the perpetual shifts in focus in the story.

Tyestor said:


Yeah, most of this arc was pretty fucking scatterbrained, there was also a fair amount of ridiculous shit thrown in. The JoJo regeneration of Meruem, the JoJo/DBZ Gon transformation etc... The constant "THE AUDIENCE ARE FUCKING BABBIES, SLOW IT DOWN! NARRATE IT! THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND IT OTHERWISE!" bullshit. Man, really is a mixed bag. CA Arc is definitely the most typically shounen esque arc of everything in HXH I've seen so far.

Ironstorm said:
Wow, didn't expect the episode to be so good.

I didn't really like the Chimera Ant arc to be honest. I thought it was way too long and would've been better if it was shorter. It had some great moments though and this final episode was one of the best episodes of the series in my opinion!

HandsomeMan said:

For a battle manga, there sure are few battle scenes.

peeyaj said:


It would be a cliche now, but Hunter x Hunter is not your typical old shounen. It is a subversion of many tropes of the demographic, and thus it would never satisfy the generic shounen fans. This type of departing from shounen cliches is one of the typical stylistic choices of Togashi. He is fond of anti-climaxes.

HandsomeMan said:

King vs. Netero we saw king getting beat, so we saw how good his defence was, but not physical attacks.

HandsomeMan said:

I see, never knew that. Although the first few arcs, especially the Hunter Exam felt very shounen.

yatabare said:
only tears..............T.T
R.I.P Meruem&Komugi