Death Parade Episode 2 Discussion

Comic_Sans said:
Nona is my new waifu

capnios said:
I'm a little confused with the timeline and I'm not sure if it's just because Japanese people do things differently or if it's because I'm too slow to catch on. Isn't it usually the case that immediately after getting married, couples go on their honeymoon?

• Takashi's suspicions about Machiko's infidelity seemingly started when he overheard the women talking about "Macchi". This happens immediately after the ceremony.
  
• We assume that this is when Takashi starts being paranoid, although we never see him acting out on it until the car accident.
  
• Machiko cheats on Takashi. You can see she's wearing a wedding ring which obviously means that this happened after the wedding.
  
• They die in a car crash on their way to the honeymoon.

I wonder how Machiko found the time between the wedding ceremony and the trip to the honeymoon to find a man to sleep with. And what drove her to that point in such a short amount of time – and after a wedding, no less? Like I mentioned earlier, we don't see Takashi acting out on his jealousy until the accident, so what happened?

Tokoya said:
Tell me about it. I'm almost convinced that at least half of them never even experienced a situation like this first hand before

jimjameswhatever said:
The void is not really "hell" or even that bad if you think about it. The void is simply your soul being "lost forever" but it doesn't mean your consciousness will be wandering around in a dark pit for the rest of eternity. It's not much different from an atheist view of death, you die and you don't come back. Shit, I can live with that, pun not intended.

In fact, what makes reincarnation so much better anyways? What makes living another life as someone else (and being none the wiser about the fact that you just got reincarnated) something to be desired? Are certain aspects of one's soul retained during reincarnation? If that were the case, maybe I would believe that reincarnation is better than being sent to the void. If not, then you would think that after a few "generations" of being reincarnated, every single soul would eventually be sent to the void.

IZEROII said:
I really enjoyed the "reverse" perspective of this episode. One of the better introductions to a universe I've seen recently.

Nona has captivated me.


Or we just understand the concept of marriage vows which is arguably one of the strongest convents between a man and a women (in this case) let one between the couple and God (if you believe so). That said something like cheating on your husband may not be a forgivable event considering they are newlyweds and don't have a ton of tangible, vested interests in their marriage aside from "love". I think individuals like yourself and your agreeable peers need to reflect on the level on insult cheating ie being unfaithful imparts onto a marriage. I'm not married and I can understand the degree of betrayal one must feel given the situation this character was in. I will go on to say being unfaithful is a calculated "mistake".

Tokoya said:
IIRC, this couple was on their honeymoon when they died which usually takes place a few days if not the day after marriage, so she cheated on him before they got married

Clearly this woman loves this man and only wants him in her life but with that being said, why would a woman like this go out of her way and sleep with another man? It's because the guy himself is very selfish and extremely paranoid (which in itself are terrible qualities to have especially for a spouse). Everything that happened was his fault. Like I said before, her cheating on him was wrong too but at the end of the day when you take a good look at this man, she deserved better (Yet she still chose him in the end and that says a lot about her character). What annoys me is that some people are condemning the woman without even understanding the full story

I'm not going to repeat what I said earlier but forgiveness is also encouraged in some religions as well.

The guy was too much of a hot mess as well so he will never find happiness because that's just his nature...This outcome was inevitable even if she didn't cheat

lejon_brames said:
Any person who cheats on a spouse belongs in hell or the void or any other form of eternal damnation. The husband was not at fault at all, even his paranoia was justified in the end. I didn't realize that the "women deserve no blame if they feel bad about their actions" mentality existed in Japan too.

BenMS said:
... Urgh. For the love of... Some people really should start removing their uptight views and start thinking critically FFS.
Did she cheat once? Yes. But it seems she really felt bad about it.
Does that one mistake must cost her that big? If you must be that big on using religion, think about the following: except for Christianity during the medievals, the Indian caste-system and the misguided form of Islam that is being taught by too much imams, all major religions teach forgiveness for everything but the gravest acts (e.g. murder, using others as slaves, etc) - everything that harms the freedom and live of others meaningfully and directly. They are also all basically focused on 'individual belief' - acting as 'guidelines' (although the Islam on that point is more 'dominant' then the other religions it seems though).

Also, the arbiters take into consideration how someone acts during their 'stay' in the Quindecim 'bar'. The actions of the husband clearly showed who he was - and if the woman hadn't lied at the end to save her husbands sanity (someone she truly loved, that much is clear), she would have been reincarnated.

iiPokeTenshi said:


both were in the wrong even the husband but really... if i were to choose i'll say the husband should have went to the void instead. Comparing the wife's cheating(and the regret she felt for the decision she made) and her husband's ugly personality, which soul would be for suitable for reincarnation? One which actions could have been prevented or the other who cannot trust?

_YG_ said:
It was so obviously clear from the first episode that the masks indicate who goes to Hell and who goes to Heaven. (For those who didn't know)

lejon_brames said:
Any person who cheats on a spouse belongs in hell or the void or any other form of eternal damnation. The husband was not at fault at all, even his paranoia was justified in the end. I didn't realize that the "women deserve no blame if they feel bad about their actions" mentality existed in Japan too.

L-Ryoshi said:

...
Don't just put the blame on the man's inability to trust. She was equally guilty, if not guiltier in causing the situation that led to their deaths.

mrdkreka said:

It is also very important to point out it is not heaven and hell, it is instead void and reincarnation. If it was heaven and hell they could just go with the past the people have, but since it is void and reincarnation they need to see if their spirits are worthy to be reincarnated.

BenMS said:
... Urgh. For the love of... Some people really should start removing their uptight views and start thinking critically FFS.
Did she cheat once? Yes. But it seems she really felt bad about it.
Does that one mistake must cost her that big? If you must be that big on using religion, think about the following: except for Christianity during the medievals, the Indian caste-system and the misguided form of Islam that is being taught by too much imams, all major religions teach forgiveness for everything but the gravest acts (e.g. murder, using others as slaves, etc) - everything that harms the freedom and live of others meaningfully and directly. They are also all basically focused on 'individual belief' - acting as 'guidelines' (although the Islam on that point is more 'dominant' then the other religions it seems though).

Also, the arbiters take into consideration how someone acts during their 'stay' in the Quindecim 'bar'. The actions of the husband clearly showed who he was - and if the woman hadn't lied at the end to save her husbands sanity (someone she truly loved, that much is clear), she would have been reincarnated.

L-Ryoshi said:


Your argument is flawed. The ring was on the marriage finger, not the engagement finger. There is no evidence at all that the cheating occurred before the wedding took place, whereas the evidence points to the cheating taking place AFTER they got married.
Also, the man's paranoia only started up after the wedding ceremony, meaning that they were all lovey-dovey before and during, if anything had changed to make the wife feel neglected/unloved (i.e. cause her to cheat), it would occur only after the wedding.

By your standards, it's okay for a woman to cheat on a man, so long as it's before their marriage, she doesn't tell anyone about it, AND she's repentant for it? That's some seriously messed up logic if you ask me.

If the wife had cheated and not come clean about it before the wedding, even if she was repentant about it, that would make her indiscretion even worse. First, if she loved this man, why cheat on him? Second, if she cheated on him for no good reason, why still get married to him? Third, if she was really feeling that repentant and guilty, why not tell him about the cheating BEFORE getting married to him?
Instead she just zipped her mouth and hid everything from him, even until after they died. I don't see any of her actions, assuming that you were right in saying it happened before they got married, as being repentant or asking for forgiveness. If she was really feeling so remorseful about the entire situation, she would have owned up to her mistake instead of trying to hide things. It's because she was trying to hide that past lover who was trying to call her that they ended up dead. If they had talked things through before the honeymoon, none of this would have happened, Granted they probably would have ended up unhappily divorced, but that's still better than being dead.

Don't just put the blame on the man's inability to trust. She was equally guilty, if not guiltier in causing the situation that led to their deaths.

Tokoya said:
>Flawed
>lel

He found out about it the day of the wedding, so how could she have cheated on him afterwards when they died on their honeymoon lol. And I'm also guessing that you all missed the part where I said that her cheating was wrong too huh?

My goodness it's so funny how you guys are twisting what some of us are saying as well as the actual events of the situation just to get a point across which in itself is quite frankly ridiculous considering how big some of you are on these religious matters

Like the guy I quoted said, stop being uptight and open your eyes and think critically AND logically. Things happen for a reason, not by chance. Also watch the episode again at least 3 times because clearly you watched the wrong anime lol

Mugen900 said:
So, Machiko get's punish while her douche bag hubby get's reincarnated, looks like the system is as flawed as any human bureaucracy.

L-Ryoshi said:
[/spoiler][/spoiler]

Read much? I think I pointed it out very clearly.
Plus, as I mentioned in the bolded parts above, why marry the guy when you cheated on him behind his back? If you really felt true regret for your actions, then what was the proof of your so-called regret? Is keeping silent about the cheating really how you deal with your so-called regrets and remorse? Is that how you show that you respect and appreciate this so-called "love of your life"?

I never mentioned an iota of religion in my post, I used a purely logical and moral standpoint. It ain't my fault your opinion is clouded by other posts by other forumers. If you want to argue on my points, then clearly read only my points.

Things happen for a reason and not by chance, yes that is true. So pray do explain why this woman would cheat on this so-called love of her life? Was she unhappy about their relationship? It wasn't shown, nor mentioned by either.
Pray do show your evidence for how you know the infidelity occurred BEFORE the wedding (I think I proved my point with what they showed us in the flashback).

In your own words:
"Clearly this woman loves this man and only wants him in her life but with that being said, why would a woman like this go out of her way and sleep with another man? It's because the guy himself is very selfish and extremely paranoid (which in itself are terrible qualities to have especially for a spouse). Everything that happened was his fault."
Pray do explain how she knew before the wedding that he was "very selfish and extremely paranoid"? Was there any evidence in the show pertaining to it? Please show it to me.
Pray do explain why she would go sleep with another man if she knew all these bad qualities of the man, and STILL want to get married to him? Is she a saint? If yes, then why would she sleep with the other man?

If you don't like the qualities of the man you selected to be the love of your life, is your reaction to sleep with another man? Is it considered remorseful or regretful if you keep silent about your indiscretion and not own up to it to the person whom you consider extremely important and also the love of your life?

Seems to me that the one not thinking logically or critically here is you.

Lel right back at you.[/spoiler]

Tokoya said:
>I'm the one not reading

1. I didn't bother responding to the latter parts of your post because if you actually fully understood and analyzed the characteristics of the man and have actually...I dunno been in or seen an an actual relationship before, you could answer those questions on your own. I'm not going to hold your hand and spoon feed it to you. But to put you on the right track, *no relationship is perfect*, and I'll leave it at that

2. All that talk about sacred vows etc that you mentioned IS APART OF RELIGION lol what are you even getting at? XD Clouded by other posters? Dude, the only one who is clouded is you because only Jesus Kawaguchi knows why you're not seeing anything. Using morals in an argument is a red flag in itself (You'll learn this as you progress further in english/debate class). Your points shows that you didnt fully understand the point of this episode hence why I told you to watch it again

3. There you go selecting certain parts of what I said to try to get your "point" along again XD. Sighhhhhhhh, the evidence is the darts game in itself and the scene of their death. The point of the game is to show these people's true colours so that it can be determined whof gets reincarnated and who goes to the void. The answers to your questions can be answered by yourself once you fully grasp the concept of what I stated in (1) and what I just said in the sentence before this one.

4. Now you're just being completely unrealistic here. You're telling me that if you fucked up...Like REALLY fucked up, you're going to immediately come clean about it? That's not how the real world works buddy, it's human nature to be ashamed of making a big mistake and wanting to hold hold for as long as you can so that you could think of something to try and fix it.

With that being said, once you fully understand the situation and human nature in itself lol, you should figure it out :)

bakicot said:



the effort to get reincarnated or go to heaven is same for me(u need to be good), i won't bother at all if people say heaven or reincarnation.

even both of them at present are guilty but i will chose the man to be reincarnated than the women cause the point below:
1. there are no man record before mariage, so i don't know if he is really unable to trust anyone. what i got for episode 1 is, the man heard convesation, the name discused has matched nickname for her wife, with addition, she have husband with doctor as ocupation.
2. the women need to be punished, i don't care she cheated once, or two, the man didn't cheated at all.
3. with only that fact given, the scene when she sacriface her baby to save her husband aren't acceptable, the whole thing can be only act. unlees u put lie detector for each sentences -_-

sooo.. don't cheat on your life plzz, if u found your couple cheated, curse them to DEATH lol

L-Ryoshi said:


Silly human,

go back to read my argument please, just because I have quotes that you quoted of other people does not mean that I said, nor agree, with what they said.

First off, when did I say anything about sacred vows? Quote me on this one please. When did I say anything at all about sacred vows?

Secondly, morality isn't limited to religion or anything, so I find nothing wrong with using it in my arguments.

Thirdly, I quoted your entire text proper, I did not take anything out of context, anyone else who has read this conversation through and through can clearly see this. If I had taken anything out of context, why would i bother even quoting your entire text?

Fourthly, despite all this posturing about "not spoon feeding me", you haven't even been able to come up with any viable evidence in the two episodes to support your argument. It's not about spoon-feeding, it's called empirical evidence. If you can't even bother to answer my queries properly just because "you can't be bothered to" that doesn't make you right, it just means you are unable to prove your position, so don't start acting all high and mighty. Answer my questions properly instead and actually prove me wrong. Otherwise, the one made to look like a fool isn't me but yourself.

And as for your point (4), it's not the way the world works for you, but I think I can speak for most normal people, that if you fuck up, and you were truly remorseful and felt bad about it, then you really would own up to it. Remember the guy who chopped down the cherry tree? Abe Lincoln? Yeah he really fucked up too, and yet he owned up to his mistake and was rewarded for his honesty.
Hiding your fuck ups doesn't show you to be a remorseful person, it just shows you to be a coward who is ashamed of their fuck up and cannot own up to their own mistakes. Even if you were trying to fix a fuck up, you could still own up to your fuck up.

Which leads me to my fifth point. If you were truly so in love with a person and cared so much about them, would you not make it a priority not to majorly fuck up what you had with said person? It's not human nature to cheat, simply because human beings are social creatures who are pressured by morals, laws and traditions passed on to us for centuries. For all the points you put out, you still have not been able to answer the most fundamental problem with your argument. Why would wifey-san fuck up so majorly in the first place? Have you been able to back up your argument that "It was the husbands fault she cheated" with real evidence?

Just answer my questions, no posturing needed. If you can truly prove me wrong, then do so.

Tokoya said:
Lmfaoooooooo, really now? And I confused you with that other guy lol, so my bad XD

Morality stems off of religion, nothing more and nothing less. It's a concept from the Bible/Whatever other religious books there are in the world. Killing and stealing are morally wrong, so if I did one or the other that means I'm evil and should go to hell. But what if I killed out of self defense? What if I stole for the benefit of others or my own survival? Because the act itself is morally wrong that means I'm a bad person? Gtfo with that bullshit.

Once again.....The evidence is RIGHT THERE FOR YOU TO SEE IN THE EPISODE. YOU just failed to FULLY INTERPRET what was said and shown because of your "morals" which as I stated earlier has NO PLACE IN A DEBATE.

If you want to know what I'm talking about, then read all of my posts in this thread and all of the others whereas we got the message and understood it.

>Implying that most people today are like fucking Honest Abraham Lincoln

I'm fucking done with this conversation, if you finally decide to stop being biased and blind then good for you, if not then I'll just continue to laugh my butt off lol