CookingPriest said: Forgetfulness said: Okay, so let me get this straight, Yes. What about |
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| Ryougi's are generally more powerful and she can kill things like concepts and non physical things. This is due to her connection to Such as in Mirai Fukuin She can kill almost anything she perceives as "alive". To use an example from elsewhere (I think maybe Nasu ) if she see's a smashed up device, then she'll consider it to already be dead and so won't see the lines there. There are things beyond her scope of ability, though, like Araya's I also believe aliens, or more specifically the Aristotles, are above the concept of death as she understands it so she couldn't kill them either. Tohno's are more limited in scope, as he lacks Ryougi's connection and obtained them through other means, so he can perceive the death of physical existences. He also apparently can't see the lines on things that can't be destroyed by people living in the current era. Curiously, Tohno can see "points of death" which are basically an insta-kill area, while Ryougi can't, though she can saw a line spiraling at a single point on so I guess that is her equivalent. If either of them could kill servants it would be Ryougi, most likely, due to being able to perceive deaths of spiritual beings and having generally stronger MEoDP than Tohno. |
Mangalist-san said: Nasu said: Q. In the other Type-Moon works, who else besides Arc can fight against Servants? A. If we're working on the condition of one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm. Generally most of the 27 Ancestors, Kishima Kouma, Aozaki Aoko. If it's just a defensive fight, but would still be a fight, then Ciel. Shiki (Rakkyo), Shiki (Tsukihime) are no match for Servants....but Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality) might be able to go as far as the Ciel class. Note though: This does NOT involve any true magic (the Aoko used is the normal magus without usage of blue) and Ryougi Shiki third personality refers to the one we see through movies and NOT Ryogi before that can KILL them but not keep up with them. |
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| I know it might be blasphemy to some, but after having seen UBW season 1, I would in fact just recommend *anime-only* new viewers to go ahead and watch F/Z first. I feel UBW season 1 as a starting point with no prior knowledge wasn't as good as I had hoped, but is a lot more enjoyable having seen F/Z beforehand. That is my two cents. |
-kV- said: I know it might be blasphemy to some, but after having seen UBW season 1, I would in fact just recommend *anime-only* new viewers to go ahead and watch F/Z first. I feel UBW season 1 as a starting point with no prior knowledge wasn't as good as I had hoped, but is a lot more enjoyable having seen F/Z beforehand. That is my two cents. We're not saying that there isn't any benefit in watching F/Z first, we're just saying it pales in comparison to the insight you get by going through ALL of FSN (second half of UBW and HF included) first. |
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Mickdrew said: -kV- said: I know it might be blasphemy to some, but after having seen UBW season 1, I would in fact just recommend *anime-only* new viewers to go ahead and watch F/Z first. I feel UBW season 1 as a starting point with no prior knowledge wasn't as good as I had hoped, but is a lot more enjoyable having seen F/Z beforehand. That is my two cents. We're not saying that there isn't any benefit in watching F/Z first, we're just saying it pales in comparison to the insight you get by going through ALL of FSN (second half of UBW and HF included) first. I understand. I suppose I it's a bit of a premature judgment. But as of now, I personally just didn't find this UBW adaptation the best entry point for newcomers (especially those who won't ever play the VN), but I felt it would be better if F/Z was was seen beforehand. |
| I feel the biggest problems with watching Zero first is that the source itself assumes you know Fate/Stay Night, so it leaves a few parts unexplained (like the ending) and dumps a few major spoilers for F/SN in the first episode itself. |
Forgetfulness said: Problem with watching Fate/Zero first is that Fate/Zero is a prequel and Fate/stay night is not a sequel. People are expecting Fate/Zero 2.0 and are getting disappointed Although people may not like the F/sn anime that much, it might be better in the long run to stick with Fate/stay night -> Fate/Zero. But hey, some people are actually open-minded and can appreciate Fate/stay night for what it's trying to do instead of setting expectations for it. It depends I guess Ufotable did a few things here and there nodding to F/Z (some examples off the top of my head - the thing to summon Gil, Point Zero melody, Sabers' recognition to Einzbern name). I can only speak for myself when I say that if I was an anime-only newcomer, I would choose Zero and then UBW. I felt watching F/Z first made me give this a 9/10, whereas if I started with this one, I'd probably have given it only a 7/10. Insertanamehere said: I feel the biggest problems with watching Zero first is that the source itself assumes you know Fate/Stay Night, so it leaves a few parts unexplained (like the ending) and dumps a few major spoilers for F/SN in the first episode itself. That's the issue ofc. Of course, unless you are a person who doesn''t like watching prequel stories where you know how it all ends beforehand (such as myself). |
-kV- said: I know it might be blasphemy to some, but after having seen UBW season 1, I would in fact just recommend *anime-only* new viewers to go ahead and watch F/Z first. I feel UBW season 1 as a starting point with no prior knowledge wasn't as good as I had hoped, but is a lot more enjoyable having seen F/Z beforehand. That is my two cents. except that UBW is great starting point and slowly introduced into most of important concepts instead of throwing ahour long recap of terminology and leaving you confused Watching Zero first will inherently ruin UBW and HF as Zero doe snot explain anything. -kV- said: Forgetfulness said: Problem with watching Fate/Zero first is that Fate/Zero is a prequel and Fate/stay night is not a sequel. People are expecting Fate/Zero 2.0 and are getting disappointed Although people may not like the F/sn anime that much, it might be better in the long run to stick with Fate/stay night -> Fate/Zero. But hey, some people are actually open-minded and can appreciate Fate/stay night for what it's trying to do instead of setting expectations for it. It depends I guess Ufotable did a few things here and there nodding to F/Z (some examples off the top of my head - the thing to summon Gil, Point Zero melody, Sabers' recognition to Einzbern name). I can only speak for myself when I say that if I was an anime-only newcomer, I would choose Zero and then UBW. I felt watching F/Z first made me give this a 9/10, whereas if I started with this one, I'd probably have given it only a 7/10. . THEY ARE NOT NODDING FOR FZ FFS MOST OF REFERENCES ARE IN THE VISUAL NOVEL The ADDED SCENES ARE MORE TO GIVE SCREENTIME TO TWO CHARACTERS THAT do not get tha tmuch screentime in UBW. |
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| Most of those references are already in the VN. F/Z just did a stellar job as a prequel and incorporating the details from F/SN and F/HA (F/SN episode 12 and F/Z spoilers) |
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ZeroDragon said: Most of those references are already in the VN. F/Z just did a stellar job as a prequel and incorporating the details from F/SN and F/HA (F/SN episode 12 and F/Z spoilers) Why would that even be an homage to F/Z? |
fst said: ZeroDragon said: Most of those references are already in the VN. F/Z just did a stellar job as a prequel and incorporating the details from F/SN and F/HA (F/SN episode 12 and F/Z spoilers) Why would that even be an homage to F/Z? As in people could take it as a nod to F/Z becuase it |
| I don't see how UBW isn't a better entry point than F/Z. UBW explains several things in detail. The problem is that people seem forget the F/SN isn't just UBW, but also HF - not to mention Fate, which isn't being adapted. When you watch F/Z, that's the whole package... but UBW isn't. So even though we didn't get to see Fate, there's still a lot more to come. |
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Stev said: ayy lmao |
| Hello everyone, not a F/SN fan so not really up to speed on the anime and have not seen the VN (not planing on it either) but i have a small question, is fate zero canon?? and in the new F/SN UBW series what route is gonna be adapted? is it the heavens feel route (i heard that this is the route were sakura gets some screen time) ?? and is there any news on adapting the 2nd holy grail war (i kinda wanna see avenger and his story) ?? |
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WAD1992 said: Hello everyone, not a F/SN fan so not really up to speed on the anime and have not seen the VN (not planing on it either) but i have a small question, is fate zero canon?? and in the new F/SN UBW series what route is gonna be adapted? is it the heavens feel route (i heard that this is the route were sakura gets some screen time) ?? and is there any news on adapting the 2nd holy grail war (i kinda wanna see avenger and his story) ?? Yes Fate/Zero is canon (where's the everything is canon pic?) and this F/SN UBW series will adapt the Unlimited Blade Works route (hence the title having "Unlimited Blade Works" in it). The Heaven's Feel route, where Sakura gets some quality time, will have a movie adaptation but there is no news when it will be released. |
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WAD1992 said: Hello everyone, not a F/SN fan so not really up to speed on the anime and have not seen the VN (not planing on it either) but i have a small question, is fate zero canon?? and in the new F/SN UBW series what route is gonna be adapted? is it the heavens feel route (i heard that this is the route were sakura gets some screen time) ?? and is there any news on adapting the 2nd holy grail war (i kinda wanna see avenger and his story) ?? .................Why wouldn't Fate/Zero be canon? Also did you seriously just ask whether Fate/Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works is adapting the Heaven's Feel route? Shall I make it easier for you? There are three routes: 1.Fate 2.Unlimited Blade Works 3.Heaven's Feel I'll let you guess which one this is adapting. >.> Hint:The route share's a name with the title of this anime. However, there will be a Heaven's Feel adaptation after the UBW one. http://myanimelist.net/anime.php?id=25537 <-This And no, there isn't. But |
| Yes, it's canon. UBW is UBW, Unlimited Blade Works or the second route. HF will be in form of movie(s). Don't think so. edit: fuckin ninjas <.< |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
Insertanamehere said: WAD1992 said: Hello everyone, not a F/SN fan so not really up to speed on the anime and have not seen the VN (not planing on it either) but i have a small question, is fate zero canon?? and in the new F/SN UBW series what route is gonna be adapted? is it the heavens feel route (i heard that this is the route were sakura gets some screen time) ?? and is there any news on adapting the 2nd holy grail war (i kinda wanna see avenger and his story) ?? .................Why wouldn't Fate/Zero be canon? Also did you seriously just ask whether Fate/Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works is adapting the Heaven's Feel route? Shall I make it easier for you? There are three routes: 1.Fate 2.Unlimited Blade Works 3.Heaven's Feel I'll let you guess which one this is adapting. >.> Hint:The route share's a name with the title of this anime. However, there will be a Heaven's Feel adaptation after the UBW one. http://myanimelist.net/anime.php?id=25537 <-This And no, there isn't. But i'm not invested enough to memorize all these potential routes, hence the "i'm not a fan" bit, couldn't have made this any more clearer though, and thanks for the answers. |
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| For the record, if you plan on just watching Heaven's Feel without UBW or something, it's won't work. |
InsertanamehereJan 10, 2015 11:08 AM
CookingPriest said: -kV- said: I know it might be blasphemy to some, but after having seen UBW season 1, I would in fact just recommend *anime-only* new viewers to go ahead and watch F/Z first. I feel UBW season 1 as a starting point with no prior knowledge wasn't as good as I had hoped, but is a lot more enjoyable having seen F/Z beforehand. That is my two cents. except that UBW is great starting point and slowly introduced into most of important concepts instead of throwing ahour long recap of terminology and leaving you confused Watching Zero first will inherently ruin UBW and HF as Zero doe snot explain anything. -kV- said: Ufotable did a few things here and there nodding to F/Z (some examples off the top of my head - the thing to summon Gil, Point Zero melody, Sabers' recognition to Einzbern name). I can only speak for myself when I say that if I was an anime-only newcomer, I would choose Zero and then UBW. I felt watching F/Z first made me give this a 9/10, whereas if I started with this one, I'd probably have given it only a 7/10. . THEY ARE NOT NODDING FOR FZ FFS MOST OF REFERENCES ARE IN THE VISUAL NOVEL The ADDED SCENES ARE MORE TO GIVE SCREENTIME TO TWO CHARACTERS THAT do not get tha tmuch screentime in UBW. Jesus calm down. There are a bunch of small things that nod to F/Z, and clearly meant for people who saw F/Z before this, which is a sizeable number. The Point Zero melody, Ilya's bird magic, Saber's recognition of Emiya and Einzbern names, Saber asking if Lancer's attack was curse, Zero's emphasis on master-master combat (Rin vs Ilya), etc. Obvs you can watch this first and see them other way around, but if I was recommending a new anime-only viewer now, at the moment I have zero qualms about telling them to see F/Z first. It only makes this UBW better unlike if it was alone, IMO. |
| Picking up on things you missed with new knowledge is what rewatches are for. This argument applies to both F/Z and FSN, so just watch it the order it was intended to be watched. |
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SpaceHamster said: I think the only reason people give an order to watching the series is so Heavens Feel is not ruined for them if they watched F/Z first. As too many twists and turns are just so obvious if you have foreknowledge of what happened in the last war. Of course that only matters if you like being spoiled. If not, don't mind what people say about the watching order. I still enjoyed heaven's Feel immensely despite having watched F/Z first. Certainly HF before F/Z should be the recommended viewing order for maximum enjoyment, but HF's second half is just so epic that even knowledge gained from F/Z doesn't hinder the experience too much. |
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| Add me to the list of F/Z first watchers, then repeat what everyone else has said. |
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| Look at all the secondaries congregating. We're all just a bunch of hypocrites, aren't we? |
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Mickdrew said: Look at all the secondaries congregating. We're all just a bunch of hypocrites, aren't we? My definition of a secondary is a non-VN reader who makes ignorant or asinine claims and judgments derived from their lack of knowledge. Otherwise, they're simply regular anime-only viewers. I don't bother distinguishing based on what order someone went through. |
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ZeroDragon said: Mickdrew said: Look at all the secondaries congregating. We're all just a bunch of hypocrites, aren't we? My definition of a secondary is a non-VN reader who makes ignorant or asinine claims and judgments derived from their lack of knowledge. Otherwise, they're simply regular anime-only viewers. I don't bother distinguishing based on what order someone went through. Who doesn't? I don't think making stupid comments out of ignorance is the problem; it's not recognizing that you're wrong when people tell you. |
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-kV- said: These are indeed nods.Jesus calm down. There are a bunch of small things that nod to F/Z, and clearly meant for people who saw F/Z before this, which is a sizeable number. The Point Zero melody, Ilya's bird magic, -kV- said: Nope. Wtf <.<Saber's recognition of Emiya and Einzbern names, Saber asking if Lancer's attack was curse, Zero's emphasis on master-master combat (Rin vs Ilya), etc. Especially Lancer's attack; that was directly from the VN. As for the Masters thing, the VN already had way more Master on Master fights than F/Z. -kV- said: Disagree. I don't think watching Zero first is better, it's not blasphemy, but it's not better. Perfect reason why would be how many people are disappointed that they didn't get a battle royale continuation like they expected.Obvs you can watch this first and see them other way around, but if I was recommending a new anime-only viewer now, at the moment I have zero qualms about telling them to see F/Z first. It only makes this UBW better unlike if it was alone, IMO. |
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| The name recognition kind of is a nod, it wasn't in the VN. And not really, the VN was more [spoiler]servant vs servant and master vs servant focused than master vs master.[/spoiler |
| How many Master vs. Master was there in F/Z? As for the name thing, sure, but one can argue they are doing it because it's revealed in Fate route that she knows them, which also serves as foreshadowing for HF. |
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StrayBotato said: How many Master vs. Master was there in F/Z? As for the name thing, sure, but one can argue they are doing it because it's revealed in Fate route that she knows them, which also serves as foreshadowing for HF. You can now add Rin Vs Illya to that list thanks to the anime |
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KamiAlice said: Well the argument is it was added to the anime as a nod to FZ, so no I can't add it, because I'm listing stuff that only happened in the VN.StrayBotato said: How many Master vs. Master was there in F/Z? As for the name thing, sure, but one can argue they are doing it because it's revealed in Fate route that she knows them, which also serves as foreshadowing for HF. You can now add Rin Vs Illya to that list thanks to the anime |
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StrayBotato said: KamiAlice said: Well the argument is it was added to the anime as a nod to FZ, so no I can't add it, because I'm listing stuff that only happened in the VN.You can now add Rin Vs Illya to that list thanks to the anime Oh my bad I missed that |
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Insertanamehere said: The name recognition kind of is a nod, it wasn't in the VN. And not really, the VN was more Name recognition IS in the VN. WrongPriest said: I'm not gonna yell at anyone for watching Zero first lol, but if I hear one more "Whyyy is dids sah different, what happened to Sakura-chan!?!?" I retain my right to laugh. People have shown that going Zero-->VN isn't that bad. Idk about straight into this UBW though, It just doesn't match anything that happened in Zero at all. This route has the least to do with Zero. And then a LOt of people have shown that going Zero > VN/UfoUBW is outright WRONG. |
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| Yeah, Saber does react to those names in the novel. |
Mickdrew said: Picking up on things you missed with new knowledge is what rewatches are for. This argument applies to both F/Z and FSN, so just watch it the order it was intended to be watched. Well, the intended order should be to play the VN first I imagine, and then watch these anime adaptations. I played the VN after F/Z, so I understand the rationale behind watching F/Z last. But the lack of the Fate route and Shirou's monologues and other details in this UBW adaptation (though they might covered in the BD extra scenes so I don't know about that yet) is why I don't like it as much as a fresh starting point. In this case, I feel doing Zero anime > UBW anime > HF film(s) isn't as preposterous. WrongPriest said: People have shown that going Zero-->VN isn't that bad. Idk about straight into this UBW though, It just doesn't match anything that happened in Zero at all. This route has the least to do with Zero. Depends. F/Z ended with Shirou adopting Kiritsugu's old ideal and desire, and I'd say UBW is the route that goes into that the most. Fate obviously has the most to do with resolving Saber's character arc. HF covers the rest and matches Zero's tonality the best. Forgetfulness said: Lol, I also did Fate/Zero -> Fate/stay night VN. To be honest, I don't really care that much about spoilers, or at least the spoilers that Fate/Zero gives for Fate/stay night. I only really care if the spoiler relies on some reaction (e.g. sad character death) and I don't feel that reaction. I'm just not a fan of prequel stories in general, and I don't mind spoilers. I like seeing how characters end up and change without knowing beforehand. While I was reading the VN, even during HF, despite knowing what happened in F/Z, I was still "HOLY SH-" at all the twists, even if I should have predicted it beforehand. StrayBotato said: How many Master vs. Master was there in F/Z? In relation to the VN, I felt Zero emphasized master v master and master elimination more. On top of those fights you had, off top of my head: As for the name thing, sure, but one can argue they are doing it because it's revealed in Fate route that she knows them, which also serves as foreshadowing for HF. I don't believe the name recognition occurred *at those exact moments*, if I recall. |
| THere is one scenes in fate route where Saber treats Ilya very well, out of nowhere just because of her appearance. Saber reacting to the name is is nothing compared to that. |
HentaiPriest said: THere is one scenes in fate route where Saber treats Ilya very well, out of nowhere just because of her appearance. Saber reacting to the name is is nothing compared to that. From what I remember, that scene was rather random at that point, as you said, and made sense later . But here, she says "Emiya" as if she was familiar with it, and she reacts directly to the Einzbern name. |
-kV- said: HentaiPriest said: THere is one scenes in fate route where Saber treats Ilya very well, out of nowhere just because of her appearance. Saber reacting to the name is is nothing compared to that. From what I remember, that scene was rather random at that point, as you said, and made sense later . But here, she says "Emiya" as if she was familiar with it, and she reacts directly to the Einzbern name. And in the VN you can take her "..." response as surprise that makes sense later when you find out she was Kerry's Servant. Those reactions seem as nods to FZ only if you have seen/read FZ even if we are talking about the VN. |
WrongPriest said: Tbh I can almost see Ufo trying to use Zero as a makeshift fate (whether Intentionally or more likley out of necessity) but.. I just think it's a shithouse Idea. Personally. If when adapting Zero they wanting to start a new series of Adaptions there is so much information they could have shown/not shown, but instead they did the Ufotable thing and made a pretty 1:1 adaptation. They are not or they would have dropped the whole "OH MY WHO IS THAT BLONDIE FOREIGNER?!?!?!?" scenes. |
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CookingPriest said: WrongPriest said: Tbh I can almost see Ufo trying to use Zero as a makeshift fate (whether Intentionally or more likley out of necessity) but.. I just think it's a shithouse Idea. Personally. If when adapting Zero they wanting to start a new series of Adaptions there is so much information they could have shown/not shown, but instead they did the Ufotable thing and made a pretty 1:1 adaptation. They are not or they would have dropped the whole "OH MY WHO IS THAT BLONDIE FOREIGNER?!?!?!?" scenes. That wasn't ufotable, that was Nasu himself. And they first talked about "following the vector established by the Fate/Zero adaption" and only later after talking with Nasu, they changed their stance to "those are two seperate stories with differents tones, etc." |
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Grey-Zone said: CookingPriest said: They are not or they would have dropped the whole "OH MY WHO IS THAT BLONDIE FOREIGNER?!?!?!?" scenes. That wasn't ufotable, that was Nasu himself. And they first talked about "following the vector established by the Fate/Zero adaption" and only later after talking with Nasu, they changed their stance to "those are two seperate stories with differents tones, etc." Actually no, the first line is FUCKING SEVENTH STYLE MISTRANSLATION OF AN INTERVIEW. |
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CookingPriest said: Actually no, the first line is FUCKING SEVENTH STYLE MISTRANSLATION OF AN INTERVIEW. That as well? Seems the "new route" thing overshadowed all of their other fails/click baits. |
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WrongPriest said: Tbh I can almost see Ufo trying to use Zero as a makeshift fate (whether Intentionally or more likley out of necessity) but.. I just think it's a shithouse Idea. Personally. After rewatching Zero the past week, I have to agree. Whatever reason ufotable had for not adapting Fate route, F/Z does somwhat serve as a makeshift Saber route. Despite it having an ensemble cast, she's the main heroine, and the main Servant in F/Z. Except for Assassin, all the other Servants were directly connected to Saber in some way. Her just, noble, and idealistic personality, and overall knightly air was shown quite clearly. Her reason for wanting the Grail was presented and significantly challenged. I hope UBW second season will use to complete her character arc at least from F/Z. --- As for Saber's personality in UBW, it's not unreasonable considering Shirou is a much more fitting master (for example, he wouldn't have stopped her from intervening in the kidnappings in F/Z), and she's not challenged by the other Servants, so she doesn't have to be as cold. But they made her a bit too moe though. |
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