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kcaco said: Raidol said: The real winners this episode are Madhouse, they did an incredible job with this episode. I gotta say, I'm disappointed that the bomb was a military bomb, instead of a bomb with all of Netero's Nen exploding. They really could've nuked the castle, before all the citizens had gathered out the front. But this is just 'in hindsight' talk... They could have nuke the queen ant's nest before the guard's born. They could have nuke NGL to prevent eco terror to begin with etc etc. You can keep going back. But the leader of the operation, Netero, wanted to fight the King first. In fact he made sure the King was born so he could have a match in the first place...which seal his own fate. So everyone practically risked their lives so Netero could fight someone he knew he couldn't beat? So this entire 50+ episode arc also exists due to Netero's selfishness? I'm not trying to hate, but that just makes the entire lead-up for this arc feel like complete waste. |
Raidol said: That's just one way of interpreting it. From my perspective, the powers-that-be probably wouldn't consider a nuclear attack inside the bounds of an autonomous territory against a vague biological threat until something more concrete has happened. It just so happened that it took the ants controlling East Gorteau to bring it to that point, but then there were plenty of new problems that sprung from that, as you saw; especially with the majority of the country's populace rallying outside the palace.kcaco said: Raidol said: The real winners this episode are Madhouse, they did an incredible job with this episode. I gotta say, I'm disappointed that the bomb was a military bomb, instead of a bomb with all of Netero's Nen exploding. They really could've nuked the castle, before all the citizens had gathered out the front. But this is just 'in hindsight' talk... They could have nuke the queen ant's nest before the guard's born. They could have nuke NGL to prevent eco terror to begin with etc etc. You can keep going back. But the leader of the operation, Netero, wanted to fight the King first. In fact he made sure the King was born so he could have a match in the first place...which seal his own fate. So everyone practically risked their lives so Netero could fight someone he knew he couldn't beat? So this entire 50+ episode arc also exists due to Netero's selfishness? I'm not trying to hate, but that just makes the entire lead-up for this arc feel like complete waste. |
turtleinshell said: First off don't go poking fun at someone speaking our language that is not a native speaker! That is flat out bigotry. More over, if you are going to pull that crap, at least learn proper grammar and spelling yourself: otherwise known as the golden rule (do unto others as you would have done unto yourself). Personally, I know people make mistakes so I think we should be more forgiving of them with that in mind. I make mistakes all the time, and I'd most certainly like to be forgiven for them (whether or not I am deserving of said forgiveness.) What? I'm super confused here. When did I do that? I don't think I poked fun at someone bad English here. If you are referring to the guy with Killua's avatar, then I didn't, when he wrote something I didn't understand I asked him, what he meant there, and didn't poke fun of him. Ummm, English is not my native language. Not that I care that much, but where did I show bad grammar? just curious. turtleinshell said: You are most certainly entitled to your opinion. I will not deny that in your perspective, this was an ass pull. Personally, I think there is enough evidence beforehand to point you towards this direction, which is really what you want to do. You don't want to spell out your ending, nor do you want it to come out of no where (an ass pull). I will say there COULD have been a bit more foreshadowing, but I don't think it would have necessarily improved the story all that much. Which is something that I already agreed with. turtleinshell said: Now then, if nothing else I would say that if this were an ass pull there are still all too many other series that are more popular than Hunter x Hunter that pull **** out of no where more often, much more blatantly, and even base their plots around said ass pulls (i.e. multiple specific examples could be taken from Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, etc.) Personally, the fact that they do have such an excess of "ass pulls", I've found, doesn't nearly out weigh the instances in which the shows are very well done and enjoyable. So as you said, just because it is or isn't an ass pull doesn't necessarily mean much of anything. But other series having an abundance of asspulls or not, has no relevancy or relation to HxH. I judge it based on what I saw, not from what I expect from similar series. I'm interested in what you mean by Naruto basing it's plot around asspulls. Care to elaborate on this, by posting on my profile? since here it will be off topic. I will quote myself again: tsudecimo said: But I feel like I need to point out once again, that my problem with the rose, is not whether or not it's an asspull. It's the after math of it's inclusion and it's role in the conclusion of the arc, that I have problem with and consider ''bad writing'' turtleinshell said: As for the suicide bomb not being very original... I don't think you understood what they were referring to (but I may be wrong.)[....] Well I didn't really bring this up in the first place. But sure, I can understand why some would think it's original given the context it was used in and the type of series it was used in. |
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| OMG, not only was this one of the best Hunter x Hunter episodes, it was one of the best episodes in anime history. |
| There is more to the nuke than this, it will be explained next episode. They can't nuke the place before they were born because it was private land and could have caused a war and they didn't know how bad it was, pitou was already born before kite got there too. If the bomb wasn't point blank Meruem would survive and Pitou with her instincts and nen will alert everyone killing them before they can drop the bombs. The operation was to get netero alone with meruem, that's it. Humans are selfish, do you care about anyone besides your family and friends? |
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Raidol said: The real winners this episode are Madhouse, they did an incredible job with this episode. I gotta say, I'm disappointed that the bomb was a military bomb, instead of a bomb with all of Netero's Nen exploding. They really could've nuked the castle, before all the citizens had gathered out the front. I guess you forgot that there are 3 royal guards on watch and they could easily redirect the bomb elsewhere the moment they see/sense it. Case in point: That scene where Netero and Zeno stormed the castle. Now, replace those 2 with a bomb and the result is clear as day. |
CheesekaoApr 22, 2014 7:37 PM
Raidol said: kcaco said: Raidol said: The real winners this episode are Madhouse, they did an incredible job with this episode. I gotta say, I'm disappointed that the bomb was a military bomb, instead of a bomb with all of Netero's Nen exploding. They really could've nuked the castle, before all the citizens had gathered out the front. But this is just 'in hindsight' talk... They could have nuke the queen ant's nest before the guard's born. They could have nuke NGL to prevent eco terror to begin with etc etc. You can keep going back. But the leader of the operation, Netero, wanted to fight the King first. In fact he made sure the King was born so he could have a match in the first place...which seal his own fate. So everyone practically risked their lives so Netero could fight someone he knew he couldn't beat? So this entire 50+ episode arc also exists due to Netero's selfishness? I'm not trying to hate, but that just makes the entire lead-up for this arc feel like complete waste. Netero is not a saint. And yes you can say he's selfish. Him, being the unmatched strongest human in the world for so long, was confident about his power, and taken himself to bear the responsibility to defeat the King. You can say it's arrogance. He has his own agenda in wanting to meet his match, but just in case, he has a backup plan as well. All the story about Netero's persistence, disappointment and loneliness... every character's growth and journey... That's a complete waste to you? Well. that's your opinon. I thought they're all very good stories. Chimera ant arc is made up of a lot of very good stories within an epic. The strongest loner narrative made Netero a very memorable character for me. The story doesn't only exist to serve Netero vs King, you've mistaken the differences between characters' goals vs what truly happened. The palace invasion was planned out to make the fight happen but after that purpose is fulfilled, all the major uninjured character still sticks around. It's no longer about making Netero vs King happened....everyone has his/her own fight and stories going on. You just completely ignore all that. I never get these "all this and that happen is a waste' type of utilitarianism mentality when it comes to enjoying a story. For me it's always the process and all the personal drama that counts, not just solely the 'outcome' that matters. And furthermore all these 'in hindsight' and "god's perspective' doesn't make sense to me at all. |
kcacoApr 22, 2014 7:41 PM
jirico said: ] And another thing that bothers me is that the king HAD NO SPECIAL NEN ABILITY!! If he is so powerful he could make an ability like a force shield that revests him to garantee he would survive unexpected incoming attacks. He also spent most of time playing with Komugi. I'm sure Pouf could of helped him but Mereum ignored him the whole time. tsudecimo said: Cresherhsm said: tsudecimo said: Ummmm... What? Although the foreshadowing at the end of episode 88 didn't have bomb written all over it, it did get the job done. It wasn't obvious but it wasn't vague either and it was also laid down at the best place possible, before their initial attack on NGL Netero had a plan that involved sacrificing someone to complete their mission as a last resort, the rose fits. Given the new invasion plan, the possibilities for how they could kill the King by sacrificing someone become even less. Most of the invasion group were tasked with separating the King from his Royal Guards so that Netero could have the King all for himself. I linked that post to let you know that I already know the theme behind it. I guess you are on to a new argument. Umm, no, I heavily disagree with this. If you wanna say that it's not an asspull because of that subtle hint when they arrived at the battlefield, then sure I can understand what you are coming for. But that line is incredibly vague, and doesn't hint at the bomb or the possibility of it whatsoever. It hints at the possibility of Netero sacrificing himself. It's a generic line that imply how dangerous the mission is. . It definitely hints that someone will be sacrificed for the mission. I mean it's doesn't to blantly spell out "We're using a bomb to kill the king". THe point was that it foreshadowed that a plan was in place when Netero took the King away. Netero even says that the area they're in "tested weapons of war" in episode 122. |
| Holy shit! I rewatched the explotion scene 10 times!!!!!! Love the animation, the smokes moving, all of them!!! Loved it! |
| https://49.media.tumblr.com/5299dd90b5f4246f2275efd0ef740823/tumblr_nyag3qnY5M1qd6bkuo2_r1_500.gif Aqua--! There's a loli molesting me--! by Satou Kazuma |
| What an episode amzin RIP netero ? AMAZINGGGGGGGGGGGG |
kcaco said: Mormegil said: "Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's infinite potential for evolution." I really loved that line. Netero had a lot of awesome lines, come to think of it. Is that the translation? In the manga, the lines has a double meaning that's lost in translation: the original line is: "Meruem, King of Ants, you understand nothing of humanity's bottomless capability for malice." (here's the line: 人間の底すら無い悪意") Malice (in kanji) as the BIG type, while evolution (also in kanji) is a small print in place of the usual hiragana syllabary that usually accompanied the kanji. I take a look and notice most of the western scanlation also only choose 'evolution' as translation. While in Japanese, the word "MALICE" is the actual keyword that's in lots of discussion, and the one major keyword for one of the major theme of Chimera Ant arc. The line "人間の底すら無い悪意" (humanity's bottomless capacity for malice) is a lot more negative than "humanity's infinite potential for evolution" I just wonder if the western readers has been missing something all these years as oppose to Asian fans. "Humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" was a meme or sort on 2ch, etc. And I wonder why western translator chose to highlight it in a positive spin? Netero's creepy smile and the line "humanity's bottomless capacity for malice" has haunted me (and a lot of readers I'm sure) for a long time. I'm puzzled that the English translation chose a positive spin instead. Yeah. That was Crunchyroll's translation. I'm not sure if there are any fansub groups out there that have translated it differently, as I've only watched HxH on Crunchyroll. Really cool info, though, and I like the "malice" translation a lot, too. MrAM's intepretation of Netero's line - "evolution towards a greater evil" - ties in quite nicely here. This thread is moving fast. |
cronosteso23 said: jajajaja we know that Naruto is a masterpiece without any mistake or deux ex machina because is 100% logical. What is Deux Ex Machina??? Mirai Nikki Reference?? or the manga with that name? |
| https://49.media.tumblr.com/5299dd90b5f4246f2275efd0ef740823/tumblr_nyag3qnY5M1qd6bkuo2_r1_500.gif Aqua--! There's a loli molesting me--! by Satou Kazuma |
| Epic episode one of my favourites of the series but i didn't like that the way the fight ended was with a nuke instead of some op attack by either side |
KaedeKyl9 said: cronosteso23 said: jajajaja we know that Naruto is a masterpiece without any mistake or deux ex machina because is 100% logical. What is Deux Ex Machina??? Mirai Nikki Reference?? or the manga with that name? I quote - "These days, deus ex machina has the negative connotation of an utterly improbable, illogical or baseless plot twist that drastically alters the situation, as if the "deus ex machina" came down to give fate that little push." It's not really a dues ex machina because netero knew he would lose all the way back when Colt measured his strenght and he went to make preparations. |
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ichii_1 said: I hate it when people keep saying that he would lose based on his aura compared to that of the royal guard. Even if their raw aura trumps his, his skill, experience, and hatsu overwhelms anything they have. I'm pretty sure they'd have to team up to take him down.It's not really a dues ex machina because netero knew he would lose all the way back when Colt measured his strenght. Remember Morel's lecture to Killua in episode 85. It still applies here. |
DangerrApr 22, 2014 8:27 PM
| While I loved the episode, I did find the King's speech to be extremely hypocritical and overwhelmingly inconsistent. He talks about how the evolution of the ants culminated in his strength, but how their use of humans gave them the individuality that was tearing them apart. The thing is, the ants really started to be incredibly decided because of the King himself. His blatant disregard for his own mom's life and all the squadron leaders caused them to separate and escalated the issue. Not to mention that he continued in that mindset even all the way until the battle. I think that line would have been much better coming from one of the squadron leaders (probably Colt) or even the Royal Guards. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
ichii_1 said: KaedeKyl9 said: cronosteso23 said: jajajaja we know that Naruto is a masterpiece without any mistake or deux ex machina because is 100% logical. What is Deux Ex Machina??? Mirai Nikki Reference?? or the manga with that name? I quote - "These days, deus ex machina has the negative connotation of an utterly improbable, illogical or baseless plot twist that drastically alters the situation, as if the "deus ex machina" came down to give fate that little push." It's not really a dues ex machina because netero knew he would lose all the way back when Colt measured his strenght and he went to make preparations. Ummm, I dont quite understand it, it is same as asspull? Either way, in this chapter, i give this... http://puu.sh/8aetE.jpg |
| https://49.media.tumblr.com/5299dd90b5f4246f2275efd0ef740823/tumblr_nyag3qnY5M1qd6bkuo2_r1_500.gif Aqua--! There's a loli molesting me--! by Satou Kazuma |
KaedeKyl9 said: ichii_1 said: KaedeKyl9 said: cronosteso23 said: jajajaja we know that Naruto is a masterpiece without any mistake or deux ex machina because is 100% logical. What is Deux Ex Machina??? Mirai Nikki Reference?? or the manga with that name? I quote - "These days, deus ex machina has the negative connotation of an utterly improbable, illogical or baseless plot twist that drastically alters the situation, as if the "deus ex machina" came down to give fate that little push." It's not really a dues ex machina because netero knew he would lose all the way back when Colt measured his strenght and he went to make preparations. Ummm, I dont quite understand it, it is same as asspull? Either way, in this chapter, i give this... http://puu.sh/8aetE.jpg A deus ex machina, as my professor explained it earlier in this semester, is a point in which an author writes themselves into a corner with no other foreseeable solution and therefore has to write themselves out of said hole with stuff that doesn't really make sense. So like, if there was a guy fighting a dragon in a sealed off cave and his only weapon is destroyed, looking like all hope is lost yet there just so happens to be an even stronger weapon conveniently just chilling in the cave so that the hero has a means to defeat the dragon and continue the story. That's the best example that I could come up with to explain his definition of the term. |
Dangerr said: ichii_1 said: I hate it when people keep saying that he would lose based on his aura compared to that of the royal guard. Even if their raw aura trumps his, his skill, experience, and hatsu overwhelms anything they have. I'm pretty sure they'd have to team up to take him down.It's not really a dues ex machina because netero knew he would lose all the way back when Colt measured his strenght. Remember Morel's lecture to Killua in episode 85. It still applies here. I took that as Morel being an arrogant prick and not facing an overwhelming aura in his life and was proven wrong when Knov shat himself in front of pouf's aura. Remember that the king has all the strenght and knowledge (learned everything he read instantly) of thousands of humans and beasts condensed in him, that+nen > experience. Pitou would kill netero (no bomb), he would be hurt by the Zero Cannon but he'll survive. |
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| Brilliant episode. Didn't see the bomb coming but I thought it was legit. It's okay to use other options like technology rather than nen to take your opponent down with you. |
KaedeKyl9 said: ichii_1 said: KaedeKyl9 said: cronosteso23 said: jajajaja we know that Naruto is a masterpiece without any mistake or deux ex machina because is 100% logical. What is Deux Ex Machina??? Mirai Nikki Reference?? or the manga with that name? I quote - "These days, deus ex machina has the negative connotation of an utterly improbable, illogical or baseless plot twist that drastically alters the situation, as if the "deus ex machina" came down to give fate that little push." It's not really a dues ex machina because netero knew he would lose all the way back when Colt measured his strenght and he went to make preparations. Ummm, I dont quite understand it, it is same as asspull? Either way, in this chapter, i give this... http://puu.sh/8aetE.jpg Holy crap that's my screenshot, since when did it become so popular o.o http://puu.sh/8jQoe.png |
RedRoseFring said: He's inconsistent because his beliefs and personality are in rapid flux. He's still pretty much a newborn, learning loads of information about the world around him (albeit at his own monstrous pace). He's permitted individualistic thinking, because he's the ultimate individual for his race - I think he meant for the rest of the ants when he mentioned purging human consumption because of their ego weakening their collective strength. But yeah, he's still naive when it comes to perceiving his own reality and how much his own humanity influences himself.While I loved the episode, I did find the King's speech to be extremely hypocritical and overwhelmingly inconsistent. He talks about how the evolution of the ants culminated in his strength, but how their use of humans gave them the individuality that was tearing them apart. The thing is, the ants really started to be incredibly decided because of the King himself. His blatant disregard for his own mom's life and all the squadron leaders caused them to separate and escalated the issue. Not to mention that he continued in that mindset even all the way until the battle. I think that line would have been much better coming from one of the squadron leaders (probably Colt) or even the Royal Guards. |
DangerrApr 22, 2014 9:49 PM
Dangerr said: RedRoseFring said: He's inconsistent because his beliefs and personality are in rapid flux. He's still pretty much a newborn, learning loads of information about the world around him (albeit at his own monstrous pace). He's permitted individualistic thinking, because he's the ultimate individual for his race - I think he meant for the rest of the ants when he mentioned purging human consumption because of their ego weakening their collective strength. But yeah, he's still naive when it comes to perceiving his own reality and how much his own humanity influences himself.While I loved the episode, I did find the King's speech to be extremely hypocritical and overwhelmingly inconsistent. He talks about how the evolution of the ants culminated in his strength, but how their use of humans gave them the individuality that was tearing them apart. The thing is, the ants really started to be incredibly decided because of the King himself. His blatant disregard for his own mom's life and all the squadron leaders caused them to separate and escalated the issue. Not to mention that he continued in that mindset even all the way until the battle. I think that line would have been much better coming from one of the squadron leaders (probably Colt) or even the Royal Guards. I'm not really talking about flux here. He literally did not show any sort of application of the speech he made. From the moment he was born up till the fight he never stated his individuality as a problem. That's what makes it weird that he would suddenly make a speech like that. Despite his changing viewpoints, he never showed any hypocrisy in any other area. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| R.I.P Netero and awesome episode..Can't wait for Gon vs Pitou in a few episodes |
| People that think this was an asspull or a deus ex machina either a) don't actually understand what those terms mean b) are an idiot or c) a combination of a and b. |
| That.Was.Intense. Holy Shit. |
| Great episode, best one in a long time for the series. Just as I remember it from the manga. :) |
Blindwolf Anime <- My Blog |
| Did that really just happen? I want to think that Netero is still alive somehow...... o_O |
 |
motherharlot said: I am upset at how they changed Netero's final line. If you ignore that it was a great episode but they shouldn't have changed "malice" to "evolution". They didn't change it, in the manga the word Netero uses is spelled like Malice but it's indicated that it should be pronounced like the word evolution. So in the anime Netero says "evolution" and that's all you hear. They could have writted down the Kanji like they do for thel Nen techniques (most recent example is Palm's Black widow/dark demon godess, once again it spells something different in kanji from what is actually pronounced out loud) but it would have looked stupid and ruined the scene. |
ichii_1 said: Dangerr said: ichii_1 said: I hate it when people keep saying that he would lose based on his aura compared to that of the royal guard. Even if their raw aura trumps his, his skill, experience, and hatsu overwhelms anything they have. I'm pretty sure they'd have to team up to take him down.It's not really a dues ex machina because netero knew he would lose all the way back when Colt measured his strenght. Remember Morel's lecture to Killua in episode 85. It still applies here. I took that as Morel being an arrogant prick and not facing an overwhelming aura in his life and was proven wrong when Knov shat himself in front of pouf's aura. Remember that the king has all the strenght and knowledge (learned everything he read instantly) of thousands of humans and beasts condensed in him, that+nen > experience. Pitou would kill netero (no bomb), he would be hurt by the Zero Cannon but he'll survive. You should know better by now that Morel was being more than an "arrogant prick" - he was completely right. Where Knov actually did cow before a royal guards' aura, Morel faced Pouf one on one at "30%" of his capacity to buy time, expecting on almost certain terms to die. The guy's earned my respect big time, at least. Anyways, aura isn't the prime determinant in combat between nen-users; it's how you utilize that aura. While the physiology of Meruem is supremely superior to that of the other ants and humans, and indeed has the the aggregate aura of possibly thousands of humans, he doesn't retain any one individuals' memory - like the other royal guards, who are also aggregates of multiple humans' auras. He has extremely high base intelligence and residual understanding of concepts/language like other ants, but needs to actually work out his own philosophy and identity - same goes for concepts such as combat, technique, and experience. Physical combat technique wasn't much of an issue, as he's already a monster in terms of physiology and nen, so it came down to analytical thinking and tactics to beat Netero, which was made possible by his experience with Komugi. While Netero wasn't doing much damage due to the King's overwhelming aura and physical toughness, he may have eventually fallen if he hadn't figured out a way to breech Netero's defenses. This brings me to the point of the royal guards; Netero had Meruem outmatched in terms of speed and technique, but Meruem had ungodly resilience, physical power, and analytical thinking. The other royal guards, while very powerful, don't much approach Meruem in strength. Could you have imagined Youpi or Pitou being able to take those thousands of blows, or being able to find a way to breech Netero's defense? I personally couldn't. |
DangerrApr 22, 2014 11:53 PM
xieghart said: The rose is a metaphore of the unpredicted human nature which when forced to its extreme limit, capable of performing whatever it takes to propagate humanity, even via unthinkable actions or act of malice. That's how evolution of human race continues, and it was Netero telling Mereum that humans shall prevail because human IS superior despite physically weaker. Absolutely brilliant stuff. wow someone actually told what the rose meant without being an asshole and acting intellectually superior. thank you kind sir. |
xieghart said: The rose is a metaphore of the unpredicted human nature which when forced to its extreme limit, capable of performing whatever it takes to propagate humanity, even via unthinkable actions or act of malice. That's how evolution of human race continues, and it was Netero telling Mereum that humans shall prevail because human IS superior despite physically weaker. Absolutely brilliant stuff. Totally agree... Well said.. |
| Just wow!! I'm speechless!! Is there an episode that can top this one? I seriously doubt it. RIP Netero, truly one of the greatest characters in anime history. |
KJ-92Apr 23, 2014 12:44 AM
| 97% rate it with 5. Anyway, Hunter x Hunter (2011) (referring only to the Ant Arc) added to masterpieces. a_cloud out. |
| Everybody has the right to have his own opinion on something.And you do have the right to disagree with them.But that doesnt give you the right to impose your opinion on others, even though you do have the right to think you are fucking awesome. |
| HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS IS THE BEST EPISODE EVER WHAT DA FUQ!! |
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| As for nuking the castle with missiles: It would be detected by Pitou's En and he could probably punch it away or help the King escape before it hits. Maybe not, but still very risky. The King and the guards also control North Korea's army. They could have defense system prepared for incoming nukes. As for AIDS (^o^) : There are only human AIDS (HIV for Human), cat AIDS (FIV for Feline), and monkey AIDS (SIV for Simian). None would affect the King. He's an ant. |
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