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Nov 5, 2013 9:44 AM

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^ kuuderes_shadow and I have provided you the data (first month to first month). Fall is not the least popular season. In fact, it is the opposite.
Nov 5, 2013 9:57 AM
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kuuderes_shadow said:
Mark00 said:
I may be wrong but popular titles usualy have more than 50k members on MAL after the first month of the season.


You are wrong. No series has ever reached 50k watching on MAL within a month. Top 4 are:
1. Kill la kill (current season)
2. Shingeki no Kyojin (Spring this year)
3. Kyoukai no Kanata (current season)
4. Free (summer this year)

Obviously 50k members is a bit different, but I don't think anything other than those top 3 would have got that many. Those 3 are the only ones to have hit 40k watching within a month of the season starting.


I was talking about members (drops and plan to watch included). Only "watching" members would be different.

And you are right, looking at KnK and KlK numbers on MAL this season is not doing bad for a Fall season.

symbv said:
ThangLong said:
In fact, do we know whether NHK sponsors Log Horizon?.
Yes, NHK's name is the sole name in the credit under Production, so I am sure about it.

Besides, no other TV channel except NHK broadcasts the show and NHK always makes its own domestic shows. So if you see an anime that is aired on NHK, you can bet that this will be an anime sponsored and produced by NHK.


Always wanted to know, who gets the profit for BD sales, the studio or the investors ? Or everyone involved get a share ?

Shaft would be rich already with all Monogatari and Madoka BD sales. I though they would invest a lot of money to make a suberb animation in this new season, but thas not the case. Nise had better animation than Monogatari season 2....it doesn't make sense for me.
Nov 5, 2013 10:15 AM

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The only info I have for members count is only for the top very few series, and is kind of erratic anyway, which is why I used watching figures. For currently airing series the two reflect each other nicely, so it isn't a bad switch to make. And because there is such a big gap between third and fourth and between fourth and anything that aired before this summer other than SnK, I think it's fairly safe to say everything I said above.

Log Horizon's figure is higher than anything at a comparable point in Autumn last year.

Then again, the main reason for this is because of the constant growth of MAL's userbase - figures seem to have been increasing on average by about 10-15% per season for at least the last year or so. So you can only really compare series within seasons rather than between seasons, because what is a good figure in one season will not necessarily be a good one in the next.

Some figures I can give you related to total members:
In early January this year the requirement for top 100 most popular of all series on MAL hit 80k. This figure passed 100k at some point during September. In January SAO had 110k users with it on their lists. The same time period after both starting and ending, in October this year, SnK had 170k. Both were the "most popular of the year" by quite some distance.
kuuderes_shadowNov 5, 2013 10:22 AM
There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do.
Nov 5, 2013 10:16 AM

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Mark00 said:

Log Horizon better than SAO ?


it is, SAO was ok, not great i liked it, but it felt too rushed coz of those annoying time skips. It had stuff for2 2cour Seasons but they rushed through the first part/game in 13-14 Episodes.
Nov 5, 2013 10:29 AM

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phreeak said:
Mark00 said:

Log Horizon better than SAO ?


it is, SAO was ok, not great i liked it, but it felt too rushed coz of those annoying time skips. It had stuff for2 2cour Seasons but they rushed through the first part/game in 13-14 Episodes.
its better but log horizon isnt really good, the video game mechanic references were really great at first but it starts to wear thin a little too quickly. It isnt bad but its slowly becoming more and more forgettable as it goes along, and its "serious" scenes are pretty laughable especially since there is 0 danger in anything yet they act like it is. Also the relationships are forced.

It still has its entertainment value but its really not that good and i wont be surprised that its most likely just going to do ok.

Now flamenco, thats a series im disturbed with how low the prediction is, mainly cause that abomination blazblue has a higher sales prediciton, i hope to god that doesnt come true

Immahnoob said:
Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit,

tokiyashiro said:

Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me

Nov 5, 2013 10:46 AM
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Baldr_Weird said:
>*1, 18,758 18,758 IS: Infinite Stratos 2 Vol.1
lol


Of course :3 Boobs!!!!!
Nov 5, 2013 10:46 AM

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Mark00 said:
Higashi_no_Kaze said:
@Mark: It makes total sense to compare it to shows that have been finished for weeks. I bet you 100 dollars that 2 months after Log Horizon has finished airing it has more viewers on MAL than any of those you mentioned.

Of course it doesn't compare to SAO or SnK, but they are the exceptions. At least it's BETTER than SAO so I'll gladly exchange that for some popularity with the mainstream audience.


o.O,is JULY 31 DATA, not the updated data (Free has more than 70k members today). I compared first month with first month.


Fair enough then, my mistake. You're still a SAO fanboy though, but that's fine, I have my own share of fanboydoms.
I probably regret this post by now.
Nov 5, 2013 11:01 AM

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Is Tesagure a lot cheaper to make than other anime, considering the rookie seiyuu and of course the CGI?
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Nov 5, 2013 12:25 PM
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symbv said:


CD Single
10, 10,376 *10,376 Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio: Ars Nova OP "Savior of Song"


nano is more popular than I thought.
Nov 5, 2013 1:19 PM

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rederoin said:
symbv said:
Mark00 said:
I really doubt the BD sales are "barely" relevant for this show my friend. If it was getting a strong TV audience i would agree, but thats not the case. A lot of people spend their money for this title be animated and i really doubt they are not carring in get their investiment back (or get some profit if possible).
"Barely" relevant may be exaggerating a bit, but rederoin is right in saying that for an anime sponsored by NHK, the public broadcaster, the BD/DVD sales matters a lot less. A public broadcaster does not always think in terms of monetary profit and only recently I read an article (in a Japanese magazine) about anime in NHK and this is precisely the point mentioned as one of the "good things" for the audience, presumably because this means NHK can just go and sponsor anime that is not aimed for commercial success, thus providing diversity of choices to the audience.


BTW, rederoin, where and how did you get that torrent data for this cour's anime?

source


The big problem with using torrent data alone to judge popularity is that it doesn't take into account which shows are legally available. All but 2 of the shows that I am watching this season have legal streams on CrunchyRoll or Daisuki and if I can I prefer to watch anime legally. CrunchyRoll in particular with it's integration into a lot of devices now is really convenient.

I have to admit I hate watching off Daisuki though. CrunchyRoll using the Panasonic app on my TV is awesome.
Nov 5, 2013 1:35 PM

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scruffykiwi said:
rederoin said:
symbv said:
Mark00 said:
I really doubt the BD sales are "barely" relevant for this show my friend. If it was getting a strong TV audience i would agree, but thats not the case. A lot of people spend their money for this title be animated and i really doubt they are not carring in get their investiment back (or get some profit if possible).
"Barely" relevant may be exaggerating a bit, but rederoin is right in saying that for an anime sponsored by NHK, the public broadcaster, the BD/DVD sales matters a lot less. A public broadcaster does not always think in terms of monetary profit and only recently I read an article (in a Japanese magazine) about anime in NHK and this is precisely the point mentioned as one of the "good things" for the audience, presumably because this means NHK can just go and sponsor anime that is not aimed for commercial success, thus providing diversity of choices to the audience.


BTW, rederoin, where and how did you get that torrent data for this cour's anime?

source


The big problem with using torrent data alone to judge popularity is that it doesn't take into account which shows are legally available. All but 2 of the shows that I am watching this season have legal streams on CrunchyRoll or Daisuki and if I can I prefer to watch anime legally. CrunchyRoll in particular with it's integration into a lot of devices now is really convenient.

I have to admit I hate watching off Daisuki though. CrunchyRoll using the Panasonic app on my TV is awesome.

No source can be used to fully judge shows popularity. It should only be used to compare shows to eachother, so its not a big problem.


Most shows are legally available anyway, so its not like that matters anyway.

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Nov 5, 2013 1:54 PM

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Very interresting projection!
Thank you very mush for you effort!
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Nov 5, 2013 2:00 PM

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rederoin said:
Most shows are legally available anyway, so its not like that matters anyway.
This. CR has almost no impact on torrent data. People who like to download will download. "People" who like to stream simply won't watch what isn't streamed.
Nov 5, 2013 2:00 PM

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Are DxD's sales considered good? Are they enough for a third season?
Nov 5, 2013 2:02 PM

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Reverb_Shock said:
Are DxD's sales considered good? Are they enough for a third season?
Of course.
Unfortunately good sales alone don't guarantee another season (especially third one) so we'll have to wait.
Nov 5, 2013 3:17 PM

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Another 9k for DxD this week.
Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together.
Nov 5, 2013 3:49 PM

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Kiniro <3 , Tamayura, and Hentai Ouji :)

Nov 5, 2013 4:34 PM

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Progeusz said:
rederoin said:
Most shows are legally available anyway, so its not like that matters anyway.
This. CR has almost no impact on torrent data. People who like to download will download. "People" who like to stream simply won't watch what isn't streamed.


In my case that is not true so I don't think you can make that generalization. Also it's true that most shows are legally available IN THE USA. The rest of us don't fare so well :( I'd be interested to see if there was any regional differences in the torrent data
Nov 5, 2013 4:54 PM

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Seeing Outbreak Company, NouCome, Samurai Flamenco, and Nagi no Asukara not making 2k saddens me deeply. Each of them have very interesting stories/plot imo especially Nagi no Asukara which is basically my favorite non-sequel anime of the season.

Not surprised by Meganebu's estimated sales hell even I was disappointed by it, but its still a fun watch just with this kind of thing and by its art it would have been better for me if it were 5 minute shorts. I stick around more for the megane men though cause thats my thing.
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Nov 5, 2013 5:17 PM

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Interesting predictions, I can definitely agree with most assessments and kinda understand them. Shows that are good, but don't get Otaku to buy them will always exist (Gingitsune, Yozakura Quartet for example).

Samurai Flamenco having a very niche appeal in Japan was foreseeable, I can just assume the producers took that into consideration and don't rely on sales to make a profit for this one. Probably my favorite show of the season.

Coppelion is jsut bad and got worse eith each episode, I also dropped Meganebu because of how pointless it was and the story in Galilei Donna is definitely a bit too wishy-washy for now.

I don't see the drama in nagi no Asukara as negative and while I've grown used to the MC I can see how people get annoyed by him. Though other cast memebrs do their fair share of being annoying too at times, but so far there's been some progress so I hope they'll use this as an advantage to show sowe character development. So on this point I guess I don't agree with the japanese audience, it's too early to say really.

I still love Magi, but I can understand that the enthusiasm level dropped a lot after the end of season 1. As for BlazBlue, I also dropped it because I haven't played the game and it was just random stuff to me.

Kyoukai no Kanata is sometimes more and sometimes less exciting, but I wouldn't be as harsh as the japanese about the show and Mirai in particular.

Log Horizon deserves better imo, but it just doesn't have the appeal of pandering teenage romance and an edgy MC that SAO has. I was to be expected to not come close to the sales of SAO even though it does the premise more justice. If it manages above the Manabi Line I'm happy.

Yowamushi Pedal has exceeded my expectation and I'm glad I don't seem to be alone with that impression 3k+ sounds pretty good for a show like that.

Strike the Blood is a show I wouldn't expect to be more popular than all the others this season, but the explanation about Otaku really enjoying the female MC makes sense. All the other aspects of the show are really not better than your average show this season.

Arpegio has also been more enjoyable than I thought so I can see why people are pleasantly surprised, but I expected it to be not very good at all so on a personal level I don't see it anywhere near the top 5/6 just like Strike the Blood, but can understand why it sells.

The 3 sequels were expected to do well, and Kill La Kill is my second favorite of the season so how could I not be happy about that.

I also agree that there are less outstanding titles, but a great variety of good and different shows, which I absolutely enjoy.
I just miss Ace of Diamond and Hajime no Ippo, I guess those haven't been available for preorder yet?
I probably regret this post by now.
Nov 5, 2013 5:27 PM

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Higashi_no_Kaze said:

Log Horizon deserves better imo, but it just doesn't have the appeal of pandering teenage romance and an edgy MC that SAO has. I was to be expected to not come close to the sales of SAO even though it does the premise more justice. If it manages above the Manabi Line I'm happy.

As said before, its airs during day-time/on NHK-E, so I wouldn't really worry about the sales that it gets. Sure high sales are always good, but low sales don't always means the show failed. LH is an example of such a show.

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Nov 5, 2013 5:35 PM
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rederoin said:
Higashi_no_Kaze said:

Log Horizon deserves better imo, but it just doesn't have the appeal of pandering teenage romance and an edgy MC that SAO has. I was to be expected to not come close to the sales of SAO even though it does the premise more justice. If it manages above the Manabi Line I'm happy.

As said before, its airs during day-time/on NHK-E, so I wouldn't really worry about the sales that it gets. Sure high sales are always good, but low sales don't always means the show failed. LH is an example of such a show.


So it focuses on advertising the LN version and ratings?
Nov 5, 2013 6:30 PM
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Xinception said:

So it focuses on advertising the LN version and ratings?


They're a public broadcaster. Technically, there's an educational or cultural rationale for financing the show (which is ultimately covered by taxpayers, I guess) as opposed to a commercial aim.
Nov 5, 2013 6:44 PM

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rederoin said:
Higashi_no_Kaze said:

Log Horizon deserves better imo, but it just doesn't have the appeal of pandering teenage romance and an edgy MC that SAO has. I was to be expected to not come close to the sales of SAO even though it does the premise more justice. If it manages above the Manabi Line I'm happy.

As said before, its airs during day-time/on NHK-E, so I wouldn't really worry about the sales that it gets. Sure high sales are always good, but low sales don't always means the show failed. LH is an example of such a show.


Yeah, I know, but 3k predicted sales seems like it doesn't only interest the daytime audience. From what I've seen the shows that do usually sell only a couple of hundred volumes. And I just think it deserves more attention. I'm not unhappy, but it still would be a nice bonus for it to make it above the Manabi Line by a considerable margin (maybe 4-5k totals).
AlcoholicideNov 6, 2013 12:45 PM
I probably regret this post by now.
Nov 5, 2013 7:31 PM

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symbv said:
Samurai Flemenco gets praise for its eccentric humor but tokusatsu comedy is also considered very much a niche market for BD/DVD sales.

Damn it, damn it all!!!

IS 2 around 23k in the first week? Man seriously, otakus are actually buying them just for the girls. Plot? So far so bad. Ichika? So far still dense. Girls? So far still the same as S1.

Good anime would never sell better than a fanservice anime, that's the harsh reality.

phoenixalia said:

For Flamenco, if it just crosses the Manabi Line, that's enough for me. It was the surprise of the season for me, and from the forums it looks like it's not only me. Tokusatsu comedy...I did not know the meaning and googled it. So it is used more in live action, could that be the reason why it's projected to sell so little?

At least the jokes don't feel forced, unlike those of Outbreak Company or Noucome. They desperately grabbed every chances there are to throw in a joke for the sake of it.
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Nov 5, 2013 9:13 PM

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Mark00 said:
Always wanted to know, who gets the profit for BD sales, the studio or the investors ? Or everyone involved get a share ?
We don't know how the division of spoils work inside the industry. The investors, i.e. the Production Committee, would have defined how each kind of revenue will be divided. The indirect benefit, like boost to manga/LN sales, would be picked up entirely by the publisher (and so it is reasonable to assume that the publisher would pick up bigger proportion of cost/risk in return), while boost in merchandise sales would benefit mostly the merchandise maker with some revenue flowing back to the franchise owner. Viewed this way, the part of profit that most likely to benefit directly the studio would be the BD/DVD sales, although even here the profit would need to be shared with the distributor, which manufactured and distributed the discs, and the retailers.



shigeru212 said:
Is Tesagure a lot cheaper to make than other anime, considering the rookie seiyuu and of course the CGI?
The short length, rookie seiyuu and open software CGI (I think they used MikuMikuDance, though I also heard it makes use of commercial software like Cinema 4D) all indicate that the cost for Tesagure is much lower than other standard anime.



Higashi_no_Kaze said:

I just miss Ace of Diamond and Hajime no Ippo, I guess those haven't been available for preorder yet?
They are not available for preorder indeed, but even if the discs are up for preorder I seriously doubt they would sell well. Talk about these two shows in the otaku circles is almost non-existent. I have a feeling that the production committee never intends to recoup much of the cost from any disc sales.
symbvNov 5, 2013 9:31 PM
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 6, 2013 12:56 AM

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will Kyoukai no Kanata get better later? 2.9k it's not a usual number for KyoAni works (except for Nichijou)
Nov 6, 2013 2:13 AM

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Oricon Daily All-Genre Top 30 DVD/Top 20 BD Rankings for Nov 5.

DVD
**4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10  週
*** **3 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Free!3
*** **8 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | ONE PIECE 15th Season Gyojintou-hen 12
*** *15 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama!5
*** *16 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | NARUTO Shippuden Ninkai Taisen 3
*20 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hetalia 4

BD
**4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10  週
*** **1 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Free!3
*** **3 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama!5
*** **4 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | SymphogearG 2
*** *11 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Pon Poko Movie
*** *15 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | WataMote 2
**1 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Infinite Stratos 2 1
*10 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | NekoShiro 1
*11 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hanagai NEXT 4
*13 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Eva 3.33
*16 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Highschool D×D NEW 2
*17 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Tamayura ~More Aggressive~ 1
*18 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | UtaPri 2000% 5
*19 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Yamato 2199 7
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Nov 6, 2013 3:01 AM
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Ejc said:
Oricon Daily All-Genre Top 30 DVD/Top 20 BD Rankings for Nov 5.

DVD
**4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10  週
*** **3 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Free!3
*** **8 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | ONE PIECE 15th Season Gyojintou-hen 12
*** *15 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama!5
*** *16 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | NARUTO Shippuden Ninkai Taisen 3
*20 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hetalia 4

BD
**4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10  週
*** **1 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Free!3
*** **3 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama!5
*** **4 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | SymphogearG 2
*** *11 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Pon Poko Movie
*** *15 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | WataMote 2
**1 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Infinite Stratos 2 1
*10 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | NekoShiro 1
*11 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hanagai NEXT 4
*13 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Eva 3.33
*16 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Highschool D×D NEW 2
*17 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Tamayura ~More Aggressive~ 1
*18 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | UtaPri 2000% 5
*19 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Yamato 2199 7


Hataraku..... announce S2 soon :c.

I guess all of those Free sales will cover for Kyoukai no Kanata :P.

Still hoping that DxD New Vol 2 reaches 9k-10k.
Nov 6, 2013 3:35 AM

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Have to see how much Symphogear G v2 drops since v1 had a ticket to Symphogear Live. Hopefully not too much but under Maou sama on pre-release day makes me wonder, can it recover on release day?
Nov 6, 2013 3:38 AM
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Oh yeah Free! volume 3! Strong! I just saw the new FrFr! shorts. So good, so funny, especially Rei omigosh it was awesome. If I had enough cash I would buy the third volume just for those shorts.
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Nov 6, 2013 5:49 AM

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jmal said:
ToG25thBaam said:
Good anime would never sell better than a fanservice anime, that's the harsh reality.

We can drop the "only fanservice anime sell" thing, it's a myth that should be long since dead and buried by now.

Not to mention that 2 of the 3 best selling anime(that we have data on) of all time are not fanservice anime(Madoka & EVA), and it'd say that monogatari is debatable.

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Nov 6, 2013 5:54 AM

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rederoin said:
jmal said:
ToG25thBaam said:
Good anime would never sell better than a fanservice anime, that's the harsh reality.

We can drop the "only fanservice anime sell" thing, it's a myth that should be long since dead and buried by now.

Not to mention that 2 of the 3 best selling anime(that we have data on) of all time are not fanservice anime(Madoka & EVA), and it'd say that monogatari is debatable.

Monogatari is debatable? Have we watched the same anime lol?
5 main aspects I base my ratings on:
1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it?
2. Is it better than Breaking Bad?
3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it?
4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL?
5. Is it actually good?

Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant...
Nov 6, 2013 6:02 AM

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geralt said:

Monogatari is debatable? Have we watched the same anime lol?
Debatable because it depends on what you define as "fan service anime". I would say it is way too simplistic and generalizing to call Bakemonogatari a fan service anime, at least from the definition I use, which is that the bulk of the appeal and visual highlights is concentrated on the execution of fan service. ToLoveRu is clearly such anime; Bakemonogatari is debatable.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 6, 2013 6:08 AM

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symbv said:
geralt said:

Monogatari is debatable? Have we watched the same anime lol?
Debatable because it depends on what you define as "fan service anime". I would say it is way too simplistic and generalizing to call Bakemonogatari a fan service anime, at least from the definition I use, which is that the bulk of the appeal and visual highlights is concentrated on the execution of fan service. ToLoveRu is clearly such anime; Bakemonogatari is debatable.

Fair enough, considering that there are few anime that don't have any fan service whatsoever...
5 main aspects I base my ratings on:
1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it?
2. Is it better than Breaking Bad?
3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it?
4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL?
5. Is it actually good?

Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant...
Nov 6, 2013 6:35 AM
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ToG25thBaam said:
Good anime would never sell better than a fanservice anime, that's the harsh reality.


It's not that only fanservice anime sell well...look at Yu-sibu, OniAi, Photo Kano, SekaiTsuyo, Freezing season 2. And that's not counting anime with partial fanservice like NouCome, Neptunia(this is selling ok-ish), Samurai Bride, Henneko etc.(all of these are recent examples, some which are not on sale yet but projected to do badly)

Moe and fanservice anime sell but they're not always hits.

What I feel though is that in these anime, most of them usually at least sell nearly 2.5k per volume. While that's not much, most of these are LNs so they have merchandise and LN sales to back them up.

More than fanservice I think it's the appeal of the girls which matter. Even in action anime like Strike the Blood or Hataraku Maou-sama!, the aspects of the girls are definitely a large part of their popularity.

Which is why it's hard for anime without eye catching moe girls or hot and cute bishies to sell except for a few exceptions which are usually titles like Shingeki no Kyojin(and even Kyojin also has a fujoshi fanbase and many people who are fans of Mikasa).

So it is even harder for Samurai Flamenco because it has a....hmmm, how should I put this, well, it has the same feel as Chihayafuru, Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun, Sukitte ii na yo, Uchoten Kazoku....anime like that. Like sym said, it's not as though those anime aren't appreciated but they don't have disc buying fans.

At least the anime I mentioned above have some kind of source material and they all got boosts from the anime(I don't about Uchoten) while Samumenco is an original anime and it has to stand up for itself....like Nagi no Asukara.

Which is a truly a shame because it's an amazing show but there you have it. There's nothing we can do about it. It's just the way the industry is at this point.

Lol, if I had stacks of cash I'd buy 1000 copies of it myself but not even that is enough for the show to break even. Sigh...

Sym, is there anyway anime like Samurai Flamenco(original anime but like Uchoten Kazoku in a way) recoup their costs somehow?

geralt said:

Fair enough, considering that there are few anime that don't have any fan service whatsoever...


Once you get used to it, it's not that bad. Though sometimes it can be annoying.
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Nov 6, 2013 7:15 AM

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phoenixalia, I think your insights are very well put and to the point.

phoenixalia said:

Moe and fanservice anime sell but they're not always hits.
Correct, and I would also distinguish between moe and fanservice. Fan Service is something physical (revelation of body parts) and sensual while Moe covers a lot more than this and often including something as mundane as wearing eyeglasses or speaking in regional dialect, and Moe is much more prevalent in anime than fan service. I would say that nowadays almost all midnight anime employs moe to increase its appeal, but only a few uses fan service as a major tool to attract watchers/buyers. And the reason is simple, but often missed by western fans who are too quick to draw conclusions: Because many anime fans in Japan also do not prefer fan service - so the use of fan service is a two-edged sword; it can draw fans of certain kind but it is done at the cost of driving away a considerable number of fans too. By contrast, MOE is a lot safer because fans in Japan have high tolerance of moe elements (at least compared to fans in the west) and they often just ignore the moe elements that do not catch their fancy, which is why anime in Japan keeps injecting MOE into the anime, because it is a relatively safe way to add to the appeal of the anime (which is why now you see teachers in loli form while the story does not even need such setting) and because tolerance of MOE is much lower in the west we see a lot of rants from western fans about an anime just because of the moe elements put in there.

phoenixalia said:

More than fanservice I think it's the appeal of the girls which matter. Even in action anime like Strike the Blood or Hataraku Maou-sama!, the aspects of the girls are definitely a large part of their popularity.
You are absolutely right here. Time after time when I bump into discussions in Japanese forum, the most important thing fans consider is how appealing the characters are, and this involves everything from the basic visual like the character design art, to how the characters are animated, to their personality, speech and behavior in the story. Fans in the west often put a lot of stress on "plot" and often seems to be willing to put art and sakuga at a much lower priority, but this is not how fans in Japan see things. Of course being entertaining is crucial also to fans in Japan but what constitutes "entertaining" could involve a very different priority and balance compared to what many fans in the west could prefer, and how much weight to put on the appeal of the characters is one such difference (and since the buying consumers are mostly male unless it is a shoujo/otome/female-oriented show, the characters that count most are the girl characters). And this is particularly true for the disc buying fans because after all they are being asked to spend not a small amount of money - from what I see most people only buy 1 or 2 series per cour if they are buying any. So it must be something that really captivates them deeply, so much so that just the HD quality video recorded from TV is not sufficient and they have to OWN the physical package with all the extras and packaging. And here is one additional reason why adding moe helps.

That said, moe can only helps so much, as you have clearly pointed out above. What I see is that MOE is a way to try to hold a bottom line for the anime, but just having MOE is clearly not sufficient. What the whole package is delivered in terms of the overall entertaining value, which involves sakuga, story, character design, sound/music, background art, seiyuu.., is still what matters. This is why we can have anime that stresses a lot on MOE but will still fail to sell well. And I am not even talking about fan service, which as I said, appeals to a much narrower segment of the consumer demography, and while if done well it may get a lot of them to buy the discs but usually the sales would not be super-high as it is capped by the limit of the appeal of heavy use of fan service.

phoenixalia said:

Sym, is there anyway anime like Samurai Flamenco(original anime but like Uchoten Kazoku in a way) recoup their costs somehow?
For an original anime like Samurai Flamenco it can be really tricky. The most obvious way is merchandising, and another would be some collaboration campaign with some business like karaoke, convenience store, beverages, restaurants etc. It can also expand its franchise by doing manga or LN, and hope the anime would help boost the awareness of the whole franchise. At the end, the biggest dream for a studio which engages in an original anime is to see it become a big and established franchise, if not Eva or Madoka, then Anohana or Tiger & Bunny for example. Otherwise if it falls into obscurity then most likely it will need to be written off as a loss-making project. That said, I have a feeling that a lot of the original anime in NoitaminA slot are not there to make money, at least not aiming to make a lot of money.

And I can see how SamFlem tries to add appeal to both sides of the gender demography. The two male main characters definitely are there to go after the female fans (and tokusatsu indeed has become popular among females these days in Japan) and yet by throwing in an idol group with one being in a major role, it is showing it wants to get the male fans as well - kind of like having the Gou character in Free!
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 6, 2013 10:35 AM
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Ejc said:
Oricon Daily All-Genre Top 30 DVD/Top 20 BD Rankings for Nov 5.

BD
**4 **5 **6 **7 **8 **9 *10  週
*** **4 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | SymphogearG 2


I hope it will sell as much as the first volume.
Nov 6, 2013 12:21 PM
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symbv said:

Higashi_no_Kaze said:

I just miss Ace of Diamond and Hajime no Ippo, I guess those haven't been available for preorder yet?
They are not available for preorder indeed, but even if the discs are up for preorder I seriously doubt they would sell well. Talk about these two shows in the otaku circles is almost non-existent. I have a feeling that the production committee never intends to recoup much of the cost from any disc sales.


If anything, they're popular in Japan mangawise.

Ace of Diamond is airing every Sunday morning in Japan. Assuming it's getting a disc release, it's most likely will be released as DVD Box Sets which won't up on preorder until the series is half or almost over.

I wonder if it's just me, it seems there is an increase of number of series this season (especially the 1 cour ones) which are focusing the story on the 2nd half (what I mean by that is the episodes on the 1st half for these series seems to be pointless)
melina_putriNov 6, 2013 12:47 PM
Nov 6, 2013 12:48 PM

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symbv said:

Higashi_no_Kaze said:

I just miss Ace of Diamond and Hajime no Ippo, I guess those haven't been available for preorder yet?
They are not available for preorder indeed, but even if the discs are up for preorder I seriously doubt they would sell well. Talk about these two shows in the otaku circles is almost non-existent. I have a feeling that the production committee never intends to recoup much of the cost from any disc sales.


I know, though it would still be interesting to me.
I also just realized that Golden Time wasn't mentioned, at least not as one of the bolded titles. Or did I overlook it? The sales predictions look pretty bad :/
I probably regret this post by now.
Nov 6, 2013 2:31 PM

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What does (cut-off *****) mean? I see it at the bottom of all the lists.
Nov 6, 2013 2:54 PM

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jayvon said:
What does (cut-off *****) mean? I see it at the bottom of all the lists.


It means that below that number of sales there's no data available (yet). If the cut-off is at 2,000 and a series didn't show up in the rankings, it might still have sold 1,999 copies.
I probably regret this post by now.
Nov 6, 2013 5:08 PM
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Is it possible, for an anime's sales to have a turn around after one episode? Kyoukai No Kanata episode 6 kinda gives me that vibe, since it had all the moe, comedy, and idol-ish things KyoAni's famous for in it.

And I smile every time I read that Non Non Biyori section in symbv's report. Go NNB!!!!
Nov 6, 2013 6:00 PM

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symbv said:
Bakura said:
No info for Kami Nomi yet?... :(
Not ranked in the prelim list today. The threshold is 2191 and projected sales for KamiNomi is 1.8k It should show up in the full list coming this Friday or Saturday though.

Disappointing... I'll be contributing in the future nonetheless.
Just hope it can gradually do better rather than doing big jumps instead then.
Nov 6, 2013 6:25 PM

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Higashi_no_Kaze said:
jayvon said:
What does (cut-off *****) mean? I see it at the bottom of all the lists.


It means that below that number of sales there's no data available (yet). If the cut-off is at 2,000 and a series didn't show up in the rankings, it might still have sold 1,999 copies.


So basically it's just a rounded estimate of what the very last anime on the list sold?
Nov 6, 2013 6:49 PM

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Xinception said:
Is it possible, for an anime's sales to have a turn around after one episode? Kyoukai No Kanata episode 6 kinda gives me that vibe, since it had all the moe, comedy, and idol-ish things KyoAni's famous for in it.

And I smile every time I read that Non Non Biyori section in symbv's report. Go NNB!!!!


I'm fully expecting this to happen and 100% believe that's why this out of place episode is there, to pander with showers, idols, dance sequences and things otaku love with a little muscle from the men (who by the way look nothing like Free characters outside of this episode) to try to bait in fujoshi. It's the most cynically produced episode of the season to me and it's probably going to work exactly as expected followed by people then acting like this show is the greatest thing ever retroactively and starting to heap all the praises in the world upon it leading up to it's finale by which point it becomes the uncontested best selling show of the season and my faith in anime fandom will take another nose dive. Book it.
PeacingOutNov 6, 2013 6:53 PM
Nov 6, 2013 6:50 PM

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Kaioshin_Sama said:
Xinception said:
Is it possible, for an anime's sales to have a turn around after one episode? Kyoukai No Kanata episode 6 kinda gives me that vibe, since it had all the moe, comedy, and idol-ish things KyoAni's famous for in it.

And I smile every time I read that Non Non Biyori section in symbv's report. Go NNB!!!!


I'm fully expecting this to happen. This is how these things tend to work. Then people will act like this show is the greatest thing ever and start heaping all the praises in the world upon it and my faith in anime fandom will take another nose dive. Book it.

Still as paranoid as always, I see.

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Nov 6, 2013 6:52 PM

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rederoin said:
Kaioshin_Sama said:
Xinception said:
Is it possible, for an anime's sales to have a turn around after one episode? Kyoukai No Kanata episode 6 kinda gives me that vibe, since it had all the moe, comedy, and idol-ish things KyoAni's famous for in it.

And I smile every time I read that Non Non Biyori section in symbv's report. Go NNB!!!!


I'm fully expecting this to happen. This is how these things tend to work. Then people will act like this show is the greatest thing ever and start heaping all the praises in the world upon it and my faith in anime fandom will take another nose dive. Book it.

Still as paranoid as always, I see.


Just seen it happen before too many times to expect otherwise. This episode has all the makings of a last ditch pander so lets see how it works. It hasn't gained terribly much more than usual post episode going by stalker but the day is young.
Nov 6, 2013 7:06 PM

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Kaioshin_Sama said:
rederoin said:
Kaioshin_Sama said:
Xinception said:
Is it possible, for an anime's sales to have a turn around after one episode? Kyoukai No Kanata episode 6 kinda gives me that vibe, since it had all the moe, comedy, and idol-ish things KyoAni's famous for in it.

And I smile every time I read that Non Non Biyori section in symbv's report. Go NNB!!!!


I'm fully expecting this to happen. This is how these things tend to work. Then people will act like this show is the greatest thing ever and start heaping all the praises in the world upon it and my faith in anime fandom will take another nose dive. Book it.

Still as paranoid as always, I see.


Just seen it happen before too many times to expect otherwise. This episode has all the makings of a last ditch pander so lets see how it works. It hasn't gained terribly much more than usual post episode going by stalker but the day is young.

I don't remember something like that ever happening, a estimated 2.3k seller turning into a top seller. And if it does happen, it has to be extremely rare.


I'm just going to stick with my opinion that you're just acting paranoid again.

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Nov 6, 2013 7:43 PM
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symbv said:
You are absolutely right here. Time after time when I bump into discussions in Japanese forum, the most important thing fans consider is how appealing the characters are, and this involves everything from the basic visual like the character design art, to how the characters are animated, to their personality, speech and behavior in the story. Fans in the west often put a lot of stress on "plot" and often seems to be willing to put art and sakuga at a much lower priority, but this is not how fans in Japan see things.


I wanted to call this out for many reasons, in no particular order:
1) The west is as character obsessed as Japan. Shows with appealing characters are essential. The "stress" on plot only occurs with a very small segment of fans, many of whom have fixed on anime because, on average, animation has better plots than most western shows, but they are not the norm. This can been demonstrated by the success of reality shows and "talents" like Kim Khardasian, the west has no claim at being more plot driven. Perhaps Western anime fans can lay claim to this, but even here, I would still say that they are merely a very vocal minority.

2) The fact that character appeal matters really brings into question the very existence of moe. If anything the definition of "moe" is the art of making characters appealing, which soon becomes a tautology.

3) When we understand that moe is character appeal, then moe as a Japanese-centric concept totally disappears. Japanese animation follows Osamu Tezuka, Tezuka followed Disney. Can anyone tell me that the appeal of Disney isn't "moe"?

rederoin said:
I'm just going to stick with my opinion that you're just acting paranoid again.


He's not being paranoid, he is just being successfully baited once again.

Mod Edit: Double post combined.
rodacNov 6, 2013 11:34 PM
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