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LostHanyou said: It's kinda funny. In the LN the first 2 volumes bored the hell out of me, 3rd picked up and 4th was WHAM HOLY SHIT! I actually like the first season here. Why's that? |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| "If you wish to save the world, it must be done in a way you could comprehend." At long last, the epic tale of the Fourth Holy Grail War is coming to a close with terrible finality. While a very intense episode, it is clear with the jarring, abrupt scene changes, the lack of an OP, and the scenes for Saber vs Berserker cut short that there was not enough time to show the entirety of this episode as the creators would have wanted. Should've cut the ED too, just to lessen the abruptness with the extra minute gained. You know the drill, wait for the BDs. Now, to wait for the finale... |
LunarMoon said: LostHanyou said: It's kinda funny. In the LN the first 2 volumes bored the hell out of me, 3rd picked up and 4th was WHAM HOLY SHIT! I actually like the first season here. Why's that? probably because there's nothing much happened in the first 2 volumes? But with great visual + characters voice + godlike ost it turned into something epic? |
Lumathy said: LunarMoon said: LostHanyou said: It's kinda funny. In the LN the first 2 volumes bored the hell out of me, 3rd picked up and 4th was WHAM HOLY SHIT! I actually like the first season here. Why's that? probably because there's nothing much happened in the first 2 volumes? But with great visual + characters voice + godlike ost it turned into something epic? I think he was asking why Hanyou liked the first season more. To be honest I liked part one more as well because part 2 just had terrible pacing... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Lumathy said: LunarMoon said: LostHanyou said: It's kinda funny. In the LN the first 2 volumes bored the hell out of me, 3rd picked up and 4th was WHAM HOLY SHIT! I actually like the first season here. Why's that? probably because there's nothing much happened in the first 2 volumes? But with great visual + characters voice + godlike ost it turned into something epic? I think he was asking why Hanyou liked the first season more. To be honest I liked part one more as well because part 2 just had terrible pacing... oh, that. I actually waited till S1 finished and marathon-ed the blu-ray so I'll have to do the same for S2 to be fair. Both have excellence episodes and bad pacing episodes though. Although S2 would be much more enjoyable if we haven't been spoiled ahead all the events (like Lancer's death for example, I didn't feel anything while watching the scene because I was already expecting it but lots of ppl consider it the turning point of the anime) |
| Great episode, I'm happy I delayed it since I can't wait for the next episode, and now it'll be a 1-2 day wait. The action was superb, the animation quality of that battle blew me away. I wonder how it'll finish, because plenty of characters are still alive. |
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page. |
| huh all that's left is archer and saber the fight scene between kirei and kiritsugu was so good and the grail choices was so nice I don't get why he had to burn two seals on destroying the grail though, shouldn't one be enough? |
| ~"The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands." (Pirsig) |
MasterMeNL said: I wonder how it'll finish, because plenty of characters are still alive. Who exactly are those "plenty of characters"? |
| Yeah, very great episode. Things have really changed.., although I should talk about that after the final episode. I just sort of thought that how the battle between Kiritsugu and Kirei ended abruptly when the ceiling caved in, so it wasn't all too epic as I thought, but the actual fight was awesome (square accel!). As for Berserker, I think it wasn't too surprising who it was, only because we only just introduced him in the flashback, not ever before that. I also think it was weird that Archer wanted Saber as his wife, but whatever. One of my favorite parts (besides the masters' fight) was the truth in Kiritsugu. It was really cool, and the scene with all the dead passengers on the ship was creepy. But would someone like to clear things up about why he wants to destroy the Holy Grail? Is it because of the ship example, in which more people are killed than those who lived? |
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Regicide said: huh all that's left is archer and saber the fight scene between kirei and kiritsugu was so good and the grail choices was so nice I don't get why he had to burn two seals on destroying the grail though, shouldn't one be enough? Saber is pretty tough, and it's not like Kiritsugu needs to keep any since Servants don't stick around if the Grail is destroyed. |
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ssjokg said: loub31 said: I disagree with you .... how it can be to save the majority equivalent to kill everyone in this world !! and the grail illusion does not make any sense for me ...it was talking about the two boats and kiritsugu save 200 people and that's good so Kerrytugu's philosophy works ... after that killing his father suddently!! killing Natalia and Maya too !! i really do not understand the significance of this scenes .. i mean i cant find a relation between all this scenes Kerry's dream isnt saving the majority of humankind.Is to stop war,pain,despair,crimes etc(save EVERYONE).For that to happen, according to the grail, he would need to kill every human in the world.And no the illusions with the boats do not work because Kiritsugu ends up killing everyone if you didnt notice. example: Boat#1 has 300 people,Boat#2 has 200 people. Kiritsugu kills everyone in Boat#2 300 saved, 200 sacrificed Then... The 300 people split up: Baoat#1 has100 ,Boat#2 has 150 Kiritsugu kills everyone in Boat#1 150 saved ,300 sacrificed ...... .......... That isnt what Kiritsugu wanted to do at all Killing his father and Natalia is exactly what he did in the past in order to save many others,he just saw it in the dream.He kills Maiya to save Ilya and Iri(choosing 2 out of 3 people he cares for) . yes ; i understand what they want to show as about the boat example ... they want to show as that Kiritsugu philosophy " save the majority" if it's granting by the grail will result by killing all people in the world i'm complaining about the example ... it was ridiculous for me ... i mean how is it possible that in each time it will be a hole in the two boats !!? it's 0.00..1% for that happen ... using an example like that to show the flaw of Kritsugu method is very silly in my opinion |
| scroll down to see my jaw <the floor impact sound> |
loub31 said: ssjokg said: loub31 said: I disagree with you .... how it can be to save the majority equivalent to kill everyone in this world !! and the grail illusion does not make any sense for me ...it was talking about the two boats and kiritsugu save 200 people and that's good so Kerrytugu's philosophy works ... after that killing his father suddently!! killing Natalia and Maya too !! i really do not understand the significance of this scenes .. i mean i cant find a relation between all this scenes Kerry's dream isnt saving the majority of humankind.Is to stop war,pain,despair,crimes etc(save EVERYONE).For that to happen, according to the grail, he would need to kill every human in the world.And no the illusions with the boats do not work because Kiritsugu ends up killing everyone if you didnt notice. example: Boat#1 has 300 people,Boat#2 has 200 people. Kiritsugu kills everyone in Boat#2 300 saved, 200 sacrificed Then... The 300 people split up: Baoat#1 has100 ,Boat#2 has 150 Kiritsugu kills everyone in Boat#1 150 saved ,300 sacrificed ...... .......... That isnt what Kiritsugu wanted to do at all Killing his father and Natalia is exactly what he did in the past in order to save many others,he just saw it in the dream.He kills Maiya to save Ilya and Iri(choosing 2 out of 3 people he cares for) . yes ; i understand what they want to show as about the boat example ... they want to show as that Kiritsugu philosophy " save the majority" if it's granting by the grail will result by killing all people in the world i'm complaining about the example ... it was ridiculous for me ... i mean how is it possible that in each time it will be a hole in the two boats !!? it's 0.00..1% for that happen ... using an example like that to show the flaw of Kritsugu method is very silly in my opinion Metaphors.You know them right? |
_Yasuda_ said: He realized it as not his all-powerfull wish-granting device. It can't help grant "his" wish. Yeah, Kiri is a douche. Honestly I don't think he quite destroyed it because it was evil, it was just because it couldn't grant wishes in ways that humanity, or the wisher in this case, doesn't know himself... and yeah, what does people know very well? How to kill, curse, maim and destroy.But would someone like to clear things up about why he wants to destroy the Holy Grail? Is it because of the ship example, in which more people are killed than those who lived? Poor Shirou truly never knew Kiritsugu. |
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Leon-Gun said: _Yasuda_ said: He realized it as not his all-powerfull wish-granting device. It can't help grant "his" wish. Yeah, Kiri is a douche. Honestly I don't think he quite destroyed it because it was evil, it was just because it couldn't grant wishes in ways that humanity, or the wisher in this case, doesn't know himself... and yeah, what does people know very well? How to kill, curse, maim and destroy.But would someone like to clear things up about why he wants to destroy the Holy Grail? Is it because of the ship example, in which more people are killed than those who lived? Poor Shirou truly never knew Kiritsugu. And its quite funny how Shirou would have hated the old Kiritsugu but he likes Kirei. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| I really really hope they redo the setting for kiritsugu vs kirei in the blu ray release....so much detail was in the novel that it is a shame we just got a blank basement. |
jpez83 said: I really really hope they redo the setting for kiritsugu vs kirei in the blu ray release....so much detail was in the novel that it is a shame we just got a blank basement. That would be pretty cool. The blank basement actually reminded me of Batman's secret base from The Dark Knight. BloodRequiem said: And its quite funny how Shirou would have hated the old Kiritsugu but he likes Kirei. Wait, how does Shirou like Kirei? |
|
ataraxial said: It's complicated. This is from their last confrontation in Heaven's Feel and probably because Shirou can understand him more in this route than in the others (plus Kirei HELPS Shirou several times in it). It's less about liking and more about feeling kinship with him as two people who couldn't understand themselves and felt empty.BloodRequiem said: And its quite funny how Shirou would have hated the old Kiritsugu but he likes Kirei. Wait, how does Shirou like Kirei? |
|
ssjokg said: loub31 said: ssjokg said: loub31 said: I disagree with you .... how it can be to save the majority equivalent to kill everyone in this world !! and the grail illusion does not make any sense for me ...it was talking about the two boats and kiritsugu save 200 people and that's good so Kerrytugu's philosophy works ... after that killing his father suddently!! killing Natalia and Maya too !! i really do not understand the significance of this scenes .. i mean i cant find a relation between all this scenes Kerry's dream isnt saving the majority of humankind.Is to stop war,pain,despair,crimes etc(save EVERYONE).For that to happen, according to the grail, he would need to kill every human in the world.And no the illusions with the boats do not work because Kiritsugu ends up killing everyone if you didnt notice. example: Boat#1 has 300 people,Boat#2 has 200 people. Kiritsugu kills everyone in Boat#2 300 saved, 200 sacrificed Then... The 300 people split up: Baoat#1 has100 ,Boat#2 has 150 Kiritsugu kills everyone in Boat#1 150 saved ,300 sacrificed ...... .......... That isnt what Kiritsugu wanted to do at all Killing his father and Natalia is exactly what he did in the past in order to save many others,he just saw it in the dream.He kills Maiya to save Ilya and Iri(choosing 2 out of 3 people he cares for) . yes ; i understand what they want to show as about the boat example ... they want to show as that Kiritsugu philosophy " save the majority" if it's granting by the grail will result by killing all people in the world i'm complaining about the example ... it was ridiculous for me ... i mean how is it possible that in each time it will be a hole in the two boats !!? it's 0.00..1% for that happen ... using an example like that to show the flaw of Kritsugu method is very silly in my opinion Metaphors.You know them right? Metaphors better than this example |
| Kiritsugu's fight I think was the coolest so far. Had the most detail too. Rider vs Gil, and Berserker vs Saber were way too short. I would have liked more details about Berserker. Saber hasn't been overly likeable through this either. |
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| The episode was alrite but the end is like a bit too rushed or i guess i just feel that the charecter developement this time is just so jorrible. Kiritsugu and sabet became boring. Even the http://adf.ly/A4yCw PICTURE AINT SO COOL |
xilamJun 25, 2012 10:52 PM
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Leon-Gun said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: And its quite funny how Shirou would have hated the old Kiritsugu but he likes Kirei. Wait, how does Shirou like Kirei? It's complicated. This is from their last confrontation in Heaven's Feel and probably because Shirou can understand him more in this route than in the others (plus Kirei HELPS Shirou several times in it). It's less about liking and more about feeling kinship with him as two people who couldn't understand themselves and felt empty. Well they are kind of made for each other, Kirei being the villain that Shirou needs to be a hero. A bit like the Joker and Batman... |
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| So Kiritsugu decided to abandon his wish since it wasn't worth it and destroy everything all to gather. Even willing to go as far as killing his wife and his daughter to achieve his goals that's just insane. In the end even sacrificing the grail. |
| Pretty good episode, though it's pretty obvious some things were cut. Hopefully the the BD version will expand on the Saber/Berserker scene. I don't mind them focusing on the Kiritsugu/Kirei stuff, though, as that was clearly the focus. Quite liked the Holy Grail scene as well. Looks like Shirou's showing up in the last episode. Sweet. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Not sure how to take this episode, I don't think I completely understood what happened. |
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Veethorn said: Not sure how to take this episode, I don't think I completely understood what happened. It's amazing how a re-watch can make a whole new difference. So the Holy Grail possesses Isrivel, shows its true nature and forces Kiritsugu into doing what he did to Saber, destroy the Grail for it is evil and not omnipotent. I understood everything from the dream onward, and Kiritsugu's thought process as well as the "Game" the Grail was playing (basically miracles are impossible, Kiritsugu could only ask fro something he knows or is familiar with, thus keeping sacrificing lives to save others) and the will the Grail had to be born into the world. What I didn't quite get, was how and why the Grail possessed Isrivel's deceased body, what exactly triggered that? Was it so attracted to Kiritsugu that it chose the one closest to him? I dunno, maybe someone could enlighten me on this. Anyway, the episode was brutal, enjoyed every single minute of it now that I payed much more attention to detail and symbolism. |
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Veethorn said: Veethorn said: Not sure how to take this episode, I don't think I completely understood what happened. It's amazing how a re-watch can make a whole new difference. So the Holy Grail possesses Isrivel, shows its true nature and forces Kiritsugu into doing what he did to Saber, destroy the Grail for it is evil and not omnipotent. I understood everything from the dream onward, and Kiritsugu's thought process as well as the "Game" the Grail was playing (basically miracles are impossible, Kiritsugu could only ask fro something he knows or is familiar with, thus keeping sacrificing lives to save others) and the will the Grail had to be born into the world. What I didn't quite get, was how and why the Grail possessed Isrivel's deceased body, what exactly triggered that? Was it so attracted to Kiritsugu that it chose the one closest to him? I dunno, maybe someone could enlighten me on this. Anyway, the episode was brutal, enjoyed every single minute of it now that I payed much more attention to detail and symbolism. Angra Mainyu didnt possess Iri.Only took her appearance and personality.Nothing weird considering Kiritsugu was the one chosen at the beginning since Iri was the vessel of the grail.Iri wanted Kiritsugu to win. And we dont really know if the grail cant grant wishes with a method unknown to the one making the wish.Since the grail was tainted(from the last war) it will interpret any wish of the owner with nothing else than destruction, and grant it.IF it was pure it may could make miracles happen.Except probably Kiritsugu's wish which would be granted by removal of free will from humans or annihilation. |
ssjokg said: Veethorn said: Veethorn said: Not sure how to take this episode, I don't think I completely understood what happened. It's amazing how a re-watch can make a whole new difference. So the Holy Grail possesses Isrivel, shows its true nature and forces Kiritsugu into doing what he did to Saber, destroy the Grail for it is evil and not omnipotent. I understood everything from the dream onward, and Kiritsugu's thought process as well as the "Game" the Grail was playing (basically miracles are impossible, Kiritsugu could only ask fro something he knows or is familiar with, thus keeping sacrificing lives to save others) and the will the Grail had to be born into the world. What I didn't quite get, was how and why the Grail possessed Isrivel's deceased body, what exactly triggered that? Was it so attracted to Kiritsugu that it chose the one closest to him? I dunno, maybe someone could enlighten me on this. Anyway, the episode was brutal, enjoyed every single minute of it now that I payed much more attention to detail and symbolism. Angra Mainyu didnt possess Iri.Only took her appearance and personality.Nothing weird considering Kiritsugu was the one chosen at the beginning since Iri was the vessel of the grail.Iri wanted Kiritsugu to win. And we dont really know if the grail cant grant wishes with a method unknown to the one making the wish.Since the grail was tainted(from the last war) it will interpret any wish of the owner with nothing else than destruction, and grant it.IF it was pure it may could make miracles happen.Except probably Kiritsugu's wish which would be granted by removal of free will from humans or annihilation. That last sentence makes sense if we look back at what Kirei said, "Human nature is conflict, take that from it and you negate its own existence" to eliminate every and any type of conflict, the removal of free will or even annihilation of the human race as you said makes perfect sense. ANyway thx for a fast reply. |
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superseiyan said: No words between Kirei and Kiritsugu. They just had this look of disdain for each other, and they just cut the formalities and started scrapping. No running commentary of how they were going to beat the others ass. Simply awesome. True dat. |
 "Only the dead have seen the end of war". ~Plato~ |
| Felt like a few scenes were missing, didn`t have much time to ponder about it though since Kotomine vs Kiritsugu left me speechless. The Berserker vs Saber scene was epic, even though I hear that it was cut. Gilgamesh proposing to Saber had me laughing, he`s too forceful, in a good way. Felt very bad for Saber at the end, she had so much pain in her voice, though it was kind of sexy (I think I`m getting corrupted by Gil... lol) -- Now, here`s where I need some help. I`m really confused about what was happening in the grail and that Iri and Ilya scene. This is what I got from it, - The grail created another Irisviel with all her memories, personality and last wish. - Kiritsugu was shown his life long methods and told that the grail can`t grant any wish beyond his understanding. - 6 billion people would`ve died if Kiritsugu didn`t kill his family (Can someone please elaborate on why or how this was going to happen, why did he kill them without thinkign of an alternative?) - Kotomine got shot. -- Overall a decent episode. |
-Shuda- said: Felt like a few scenes were missing, didn`t have much time to ponder about it though since Kotomine vs Kiritsugu left me speechless. The Berserker vs Saber scene was epic, even though I hear that it was cut. Gilgamesh proposing to Saber had me laughing, he`s too forceful, in a good way. Felt very bad for Saber at the end, she had so much pain in her voice, though it was kind of sexy (I think I`m getting corrupted by Gil... lol) -- Now, here`s where I need some help. I`m really confused about what was happening in the grail and that Iri and Ilya scene. This is what I got from it, - The grail created another Irisviel with all her memories, personality and last wish. - Kiritsugu was shown his life long methods and told that the grail can`t grant any wish beyond his understanding. - 6 billion people would`ve died if Kiritsugu didn`t kill his family (Can someone please elaborate on why or how this was going to happen, why did he kill them without thinkign of an alternative?) - Kotomine got shot. -- Overall a decent episode. -It wasnt another Iri.Angra Mainyu(the thing that tainted the grail) took her appearance and personality.That was so it/she can make Kerry make the wish. -Who knows how.They would die in their sleep,natural disasters or any other way. As for his family who knows if they would survive after the wish.The grail wouldnt grant two wishes(Iri's and Kiritsugu's wish to be together + Kiritsugu's wish for world peace)By killing his "family" in the dream he rejected the grail and woke up.The real ones had no part in this.(Iri was dead,Ilya was in the castle). Now why would the Grail kill everyone in the planet and why didnt Kiritsugu make another wish? The grail was corrupted by Angra Mainyu in the last war and has already the "wish" destroy everything ready to be granted.No matter what someone wishes about the result would be the same.Of course Kritsugu didnt figure all that out by himeslf but he understood that there was something wrong with it. As for Kiritsugu's wish, it may have been impossible to grant even if the grail was pure. |
-Shuda- said: @ssjokg Thanks! Seems a bit clearer now. I guess I'll either look up Angra Mainyu or get around to playing the HF Route. Read the HF route.... |
| Oh noes, what did they do to Saber vs Lancelot >_< |
“I’m tired of all the nonsense about beauty being only skin-deep. That’s deep enough. What do you want – an adorable pancreas?”      |
| Can any body help me on where to search to read the novel? I'm seeing they cut a lot of detail that's been missing I'm guessing? I would want to know what exactly did they cut. |
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xxCLouDd said: Can any body help me on where to search to read the novel? I'm seeing they cut a lot of detail that's been missing I'm guessing? I would want to know what exactly did they cut. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fate+zero+light+novel+translation |
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| Hello, does anyone know the soundtrack played in the beginning of this episode? |
TRexSays said: It hasn't been released yet. The second OST will be included with the 2nd BD Box, which comes out on September 19.Hello, does anyone know the soundtrack played in the beginning of this episode? |
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| I'm speechless. So, the holy grail has its own will oO And its superpowered miracle only allows him to wipe off the whole world's population to answer Kuritsugu's wish ><' And I thought servants without a master couldn't stay materialized in the reality without mana ? Anyway, good episode once again. Kuritsugu has a great personality, I like him. |
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Hyunckel said: And I thought servants without a master couldn't stay materialized in the reality without mana ? Which Servant are you talking about? |
ssjokg said: Hyunckel said: And I thought servants without a master couldn't stay materialized in the reality without mana ? Which Servant are you talking about? None in particular? Would you be kind enough to simply answer? This anime was pretty complicated for someone who didn't read novels, light novels, visual novels, nor seen Fate/Stay Night. Guess I'll have to if I wanna uncover all those unexplained things, meh |
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Hyunckel said: You made a specific question without specifying which Servant you referred to. Assassin had a Master, Rider has a Master, ARCHER HAD A MASTER (first Tokiomi then Kirei)... all of them had Masters.ssjokg said: Hyunckel said: And I thought servants without a master couldn't stay materialized in the reality without mana ? Which Servant are you talking about? None in particular? Would you be kind enough to simply answer? This anime was pretty complicated for someone who didn't read novels, light novels, visual novels, nor seen Fate/Stay Night. Guess I'll have to if I wanna uncover all those unexplained things, meh Anyway, since you didn't specify, in general once the link to the Master disappears the Servant has limited amount of time (generally up to a few hours at most) to make a new contract before they disappear. The exception occurs in Servants who have an ability called "Independent Action" which allows them to linger in the world from a few days to over a week, depending on the rank. Archers have this ability by default, which is why they tend to be more rebellious to their Masters. But in general, unlike Fate/Stay Night where there actually were some Servants breaking the general rules (like Assassin actually having no Master per-se), all the Servants had a Master and none of them lost it before they were defeated (except Archer but Archer made a Contract with Kirei right after Tokiomi's death). Also,there's two different conditions for Servants to remain in the world: 1) They need a Master to ground them in the current era, otherwise the world detects them as anomalies and eliminates them. 2) They need Mana to form and mantain a body. If they lose their Master they'll vanish after a little time (with a few exceptions mentioned above) no matter how much Mana they have, and if they run out of Mana they'll vanish even if they still have a Master. |
Leon-GunAug 24, 2012 5:37 PM
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| Battle between Kiri and Kirei was pretty awesome! |
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| Great stuff. |
| Man, that really sucks for Saber. Not knowing why but being forced to destroy the grail. D= |
 "I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika |
| Nice episode, Kirei vs Kiritsugu was one of the most memorable battles. I hope in the Blueray they include a bit more about Lancelot's past, I've read about it on Typemoon wiki. The part inside the Grail reminded me The End of Evangelion. |
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kratos_aurion said: Nice episode, Kirei vs Kiritsugu was one of the most memorable battles. I hope in the Blueray they include a bit more about Lancelot's past, I've read about it on Typemoon wiki. The part inside the Grail reminded me The End of Evangelion. FZ does not require a philosophy |
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