A 16-year-old Moroccan girl has committed suicide after a judge ordered her to marry her rapist, according to Moroccan media reports. Last year Amina’s parents filed charges against their daughter’s rapist, a man 10 years older than her but it was only recently that a judge in the northern city of Tangier decided that instead of punishing him, the two must be married. The court’s decision to forcibly marry Amina to her rapist was supposed to “resolve” the damage of sexual violation against her, but it led to more suffering in the unwelcoming home of her rapist/husband’s family. Traumatized by the painful experience of rape, Amina decided to end her life by consuming rat poison in the house of her husband’s family, according to the Moroccan daily al-Massae. According to the newspaper, this type of forced marriage is rooted in local rural traditions to safeguard the honor of girls who are raped. Moroccan penal code exempts a rapist from punishment if he agrees to marry his victim. Feminists have long demanded an amendment to this article. Hafida Elbaz, director of the Women’s Solidarity Association told a-Massae that the article provides an opportunity for a perpetrator to avoid punishment. The story has widely spread on Twitter and on Facebook with many in Morocco demanding action against the judge who issued the ruling. Source: http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/14/200577.html Only in Islam... and the Torah. But nobody listens to that anymore. |
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The court’s decision to forcibly marry Amina to her rapist was supposed to “resolve” the damage of sexual violation against her Errr, what? There is no logic behind this. What the fuck was this judge thinking. |
| He was thinking Islam :) Come on, every fucking religious book says this shit. What was B.C.E thinking? |
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| Well they need to renew these religious books, because they were obviously written Before Common Sense. |
Rhubarb said: Well they need to renew these religious books, because they were obviously written Before Common Sense. Haha, agreed. Though, I believe the Quran was written in 600 A.D (or C.E). This whole world is warped. And what's funniest about this is... the Quran is a writ of Muhammad's dreams. The entire religion is based off killing those who don't believe and adhere to his... dreams. |
lucjanMar 14, 2012 1:42 PM
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Rhubarb said: Well they need to renew these religious books, because they were obviously written Before Common Sense. We're still in the Before Common Sense age, cuz otherwise we'd use it and decide this is stupid. Blegh, it's an other religion, and an other culture. We think it's stupid and strange, but for them this is normal. Unless they want to be like the western idea. And that's something not many nationalists would agree with. |
| All hail the FSM! |
Assassin9399 said: Rhubarb said: Well they need to renew these religious books, because they were obviously written Before Common Sense. We're still in the Before Common Sense age, cuz otherwise we'd use it and decide this is stupid. Blegh, it's an other religion, and an other culture. We think it's stupid and strange, but for them this is normal. Unless they want to be like the western idea. And that's something not many nationalists would agree with. No, not even the Moroccans think it's normal. "Many in Morocco demanding action against the judge who issued the ruling." |
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lucjan said: Assassin9399 said: Rhubarb said: Well they need to renew these religious books, because they were obviously written Before Common Sense. We're still in the Before Common Sense age, cuz otherwise we'd use it and decide this is stupid. Blegh, it's an other religion, and an other culture. We think it's stupid and strange, but for them this is normal. Unless they want to be like the western idea. And that's something not many nationalists would agree with. No, not even the Moroccans think it's normal. "Many in Morocco demanding action against the judge who issued the ruling." Hmm, I see. But it's still their culture that tells them this right? Sometimes I wondered what would have happened if Europe didn't have that stupid urge to begin with Imperialism. The world sure would be different. |
| Yea, stuff like this happens all the time in countries with barbaric religious laws like these. Never mind those silly human rights, this kind of thing should be illegal based on the basic principles of the legal state. Assassin9399 said: Sure, this is based on old religious cultures that are a stone's throw away from barbarism. But this is exactly why they have nothing to do in a legal state.Hmm, I see. But it's still their culture that tells them this right? Sometimes I wondered what would have happened if Europe didn't have that stupid urge to begin with Imperialism. The world sure would be different. |
lucjan said: Assassin9399 said: Rhubarb said: Well they need to renew these religious books, because they were obviously written Before Common Sense. We're still in the Before Common Sense age, cuz otherwise we'd use it and decide this is stupid. Blegh, it's an other religion, and an other culture. We think it's stupid and strange, but for them this is normal. Unless they want to be like the western idea. And that's something not many nationalists would agree with. No, not even the Moroccans think it's normal. "Many in Morocco demanding action against the judge who issued the ruling." Well, a few things of note, I've read from multiple sources on this story now, and this one makes it sound like the judge demanded it and leaves out the fact that the family, the victim, and the rapist had to agree to the marriage. So there was a choice, and everyone involved chose poorly. Still, to the point at hand, lately I see this trend where people excuse others actions because it's a different culture, or a different religion. Who are we to judge, is a common mindset. However a culture rooted in the draconian traditions of some ancient text that singles out women and minorities for special punishment, seems pretty wrong to me (this can apply to the US too naturally). I think the mindset that every culture/religion is valid, is a flawed notion that allows some pretty heinous acts to go on, all in the name of "not stepping on toes". |
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| The only way that woman would have agreed to the marriage is if she was highly, HIGHLY pressured to do so. I mean, there are dozens of reports of nitric acid, battery acid, you name it, being thrown at women who deny marriage proposals in Islam. And that aside, there's also the danger of being excommunicated, or being stoned to death. No mentally sane woman would have agreed to this marriage, unless a high enough amount of pressure was thrust upon her. |
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lucjan said: No mentally sane woman would have agreed to this marriage, unless a high enough amount of pressure was thrust upon her. "Marry your rapist or have acid thrown on your face and be stoned to death. Be glad woman, this is a civilized resolution!" Truly, the middle east has done it again; being a shining example of legalism and human rights. /sarcasm. |
| What, isn't that democratic? Hillary said just the other day that Morocco is the most progressive democratic country and every other muslim country shall follow its example... So there's no problem here...is there? Svard said: Truly, the middle east has done it again Someone didn't study geography at school. Morocco is very, very far from the Middle East. |
seishi-samaMar 14, 2012 3:08 PM
| Who on earth were the juries? |
| I don't want to get flamed, but maybe that is just how things work there. If most people are ok with that kind of system and nobody is complaining about it there, then maybe it just works there? Though it is very flawed, so if you rape someone, you get to marry them? And the person who got raped has no choice in the matter? Seems like they promote rape rather then punish it. It is a pretty messed up system from my point of view. But hey, maybe it's just how things are there, if it works for them, it works for them. But one things for sure, it didn't work for them in this case. |
 "I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika |
seishi-sama said: Someone didn't study geography at school. Morocco is very, very far from the Middle East. And I thought Morocco was still in the zone of the middle east. Thanks? :| DrRatekkusu said: Should have commented on this too, frankly. Srs bznz. |
lucjan said: Rhubarb said: Well they need to renew these religious books, because they were obviously written Before Common Sense. Haha, agreed. Though, I believe the Quran was written in 600 A.D (or C.E). This whole world is warped. And what's funniest about this is... the Quran is a writ of Muhammad's dreams. The entire religion is based off killing those who don't believe and adhere to his... dreams. ...Seriously? The Quran teaches the same amount of violence against the nonbelievers as The Bible does. Most Muslims do not agree with the extreme violence against people of other religions, it's the extremists that believe that. It's kind of like any Christian running around and calling other people heretics and killing people for it. (Yes, there are Christian terrorist groups and they have the exact same motivations as a Muslim terrorist.). This is really just turning into a Muslim hate thread. |
| unless you live in morrocco, you can't really complain about this. our defenition of human rights is no more than an opinion to these countries, and it shouldn't be more. nobody likes other cultures forcing their law,s traditions, practices or religions on us.. what makes us so right? because your 'morals' define human rights? where do morals come from? you are no less a product of your environment than a muslim or a morroccan rapist |
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| Sadly, this is a result of strict conservatism in any culture or religion. When conservatism is allowed to run unchecked, this is one of the end results. Islam in and of itself isn't bad, like any other religion, it is merely a tool and the wrong within it is created by those who wield said tool, not the tool itself. That said, yeah, they need to learn how to be more moderate and civilized. Because what they are doing is basically blaming the victim for the violation forced upon her. And that's just plain twisted, misyognist and sick, IMO. |
| Every minute you are thinking of evil, you might have been thinking of good instead. Refuse to pander to a morbid interest in your own misdeeds. Pick yourself up, be sorry, shake yourself, and go on again. Evelyn Underhill |
DarkShards said: It works for them only because anyone that whines about it gets their faces burned off or stoned to death. So again, pure barbarism no matter how you twist and turn it. They might as well drop all pretense of having a legal system and follow through with "might makes right" all the way.It is a pretty messed up system from my point of view. But hey, maybe it's just how things are there, if it works for them, it works for them. But one things for sure, it didn't work for them in this case. |
seishi-sama said: What, isn't that democratic? Hillary said just the other day that Morocco is the most progressive democratic country and every other muslim country shall follow its example... So there's no problem here...is there? Just because she claims that it is the most progressive and democratic of the Muslim countries (although I am pretty sure she is forgetting the Islamic countries in South East Asia, and Turkey for that matter) does not mean that she thinks it is the perfect example of democracy. Would you care to name a better example of progressive democracy in the region? seishi-sama said: Someone didn't study geography at school. Morocco is very, very far from the Middle East. Morocco may not be in the Middle East but it's population is mostly Arab, it is part of the Arab league and very similar to the Middle East proper in terms of culture. Given that this is an issue concerning culture and not of geographic locale, is it really necessary to point out such mistakes? |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
FatherAnderson said: lucjan said: Rhubarb said: Well they need to renew these religious books, because they were obviously written Before Common Sense. Haha, agreed. Though, I believe the Quran was written in 600 A.D (or C.E). This whole world is warped. And what's funniest about this is... the Quran is a writ of Muhammad's dreams. The entire religion is based off killing those who don't believe and adhere to his... dreams. ...Seriously? The Quran teaches the same amount of violence against the nonbelievers as The Bible does. Most Muslims do not agree with the extreme violence against people of other religions, it's the extremists that believe that. It's kind of like any Christian running around and calling other people heretics and killing people for it. (Yes, there are Christian terrorist groups and they have the exact same motivations as a Muslim terrorist.). This is really just turning into a Muslim hate thread. Deuteronomy 22:28 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. As for the amount of violence Islam tolerates compared to Christianity, compare the middle east to America (since America is filled with mostly Christians). Muslims can tolerate a lot. |
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| Meh, i don't care. Some of the people who posted here are apathetic about it, so why should i care anymore... Everybody talks about how it's wrong but nobody is doing anything. I'm talking about politicians and people with power to change something in the world. Tradition? Just another excuse to legally kill. |
lucjan said: Deuteronomy 22:28 - If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. As for the amount of violence Islam tolerates compared to Christianity, compare the middle east to America (since America is filled with mostly Christians). Muslims can tolerate a lot. That passage from Deuteronomy is a tricky one to analyze, especially taken out of context. I've seen Christians make three justifications for it: 1. The passage requires the male rapist to take responsibility for his actions. At the time the book was written, an unmarried girl who had lost her virginity would become a social outcast, often being forced into prostitution to make a living. Marrying her rapist was more a case of the male being forced to support the female rather than the female being forced to marry the male. 2. Verses 28-29 have a completely different meaning when read a) with a more accurate translation of the Hebrew and b) read after verses 25-27. Verses 25-27 refer to actual rape while verses 28-29 refer to mutually-accountable consensual sex. 3. This is Mosaic law, which doesn't apply to a world that has already seen Jesus crucified and resurrected, in accordance with Galatians 3:23-25. I don't have a stance on the matter, but I believe that passage deserves closer examination. |
| I find this to be quite depressing, I know they have their believes but they should at least hear the victim's opinion...not the rapist's ffs |
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| Confused why she just committed suicide and didn't kill the rapist first. People these days.. |
| This judge knows nothing about Islamic rulings for rape for there judgment, the rapist pay her Mahr full, being whipped 100 times, and he can't enter that country for a whole year. Nothing in Quran says anything about the girl having to do if she were raped by force. And please people, don't start flaming religions if you don't know how they work exactly |
Game_Master said: And please people, don't start flaming religions if you don't know how they work exactly But still, religion is full of shit. Especially Islam. |
| LUL |
| 1. Find woman of your dreams. 2. Rape her 3. turn yourself in 4. Agree to marry her 5. Tell her it was your plan all along to marry her to help ease up on her suicidal thoughts $$$$$$$$ Profit? |
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Legendre said: Confused why she just committed suicide and didn't kill the rapist first. People these days.. If she read this, she'd say, "fuck..." |
"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"    Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly. |
| ...Looks like you had some pretty deep discussion going. I'm just gonna leave this here... Read this statement by a Moroccan lawyer on reddit (They don't fuck around) I'm willing to believe a site I'm totally unfamiliar with fabricated / severely adjusted the facts of a story to make good news. |
| Please, please don't start hating the Muslims. I find most religions to be an utter waste of time. But I don't think it is fair to base this on that. Sigh messed up world. Dumbass humanity and another worthless post. |
Hakuromatsu said: 1. The passage requires the male rapist to take responsibility for his actions. At the time the book was written, an unmarried girl who had lost her virginity would become a social outcast, often being forced into prostitution to make a living. Marrying her rapist was more a case of the male being forced to support the female rather than the female being forced to marry the male. 2. Verses 28-29 have a completely different meaning when read a) with a more accurate translation of the Hebrew and b) read after verses 25-27. Verses 25-27 refer to actual rape while verses 28-29 refer to mutually-accountable consensual sex. 3. This is Mosaic law, which doesn't apply to a world that has already seen Jesus crucified and resurrected, in accordance with Galatians 3:23-25. 1. Doesn't justify the result. 2. A) The bible has been translated very accurately from Hebrew. On the other hand, the Quran's translation from Arabic has been criticized. B) So what...? 3. Christians are still to acknowledge and praise it. It is, after all, written by the same God spoken of in the New Testament. TheLandofMyYouth said: Please, please don't start hating the Muslims. I find most religions to be an utter waste of time. But I don't think it is fair to base this on that. Sigh messed up world. Dumbass humanity and another worthless post. I never stated I hated Muslims. I hate their religion, but I don't hate anyone. And how is this post worthless? If this is indeed a true, accurate story, this post is a wakeup call for humanity! |
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lucjan said: I never stated I hated Muslims. I hate their religion, but I don't hate anyone. And how is this post worthless? If this is indeed a true, accurate story, this post is a wakeup call for humanity! Well I would say it won't do anything. We've had plenty of 'wakeup calls' before, and none of them have ever done anything before have they? |
| If knowledge of a situation was all it took to change it then everyone who uses the Internet would be a revolutionary. |
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lucjan said: I never stated I hated Muslims. I hate their religion, but I don't hate anyone. And how is this post worthless? If this is indeed a true, accurate story, this post is a wakeup call for humanity! If you hate someone's fundamental beliefs, is that not -to all extensive purposes- the same as hating them as people? |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
AnnoKano said: If you hate someone's fundamental beliefs, is that not -to all extensive purposes- the same as hating them as people? If I agree with someone's fundamental beliefs, can I not still find him or her repulsive as a person? |
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Akito_Kinomoto said: AnnoKano said: If you hate someone's fundamental beliefs, is that not -to all extensive purposes- the same as hating them as people? If I agree with someone's fundamental beliefs, can I not still find him or her repulsive as a person? Of course, but I am not sure if it quite works the other way around. You can agree with someone about religion (say) but dislike their personality or have other reason to dislike them. That's not really the same issue, because you have an external reason to dislike them. If you hate someone's fundamental beliefs, you are hate something that is a significant aspect of their being, perhaps what makes them as a person. Furthermore, your fundamental beliefs are not something you inherit, they are something you develop yourself. If you hate the core aspect of someone's being, would that person not interpret it as a hatred of them as a person? I am not sure, it's just that what Lucjan said struck me as being logically questionable, although I am sure I have used similar reasoning myself in the past... A better way to disect the question might be to ask what the differences are between hating someone's fundamental beliefs and hating them as a person. |
| Losing an Argument online? Simply post a webpage full of links, and refuse to continue until your opponents have read every last one of them! WORKS EVERY TIME! "I was debating with someone who believed in climate change, when he linked me to a graph showing evidence to that effect. So I sent him a 10k word essay on the origins of Conservatism, and escaped with my dignity intact." "THANK YOU VERBOSE WEBPAGES OF QUESTIONABLE RELEVANCE!" |
Akito_Kinomoto said: AnnoKano said: If you hate someone's fundamental beliefs, is that not -to all extensive purposes- the same as hating them as people? If I agree with someone's fundamental beliefs, can I not still find him or her repulsive as a person? But while a person does not make a religion there are some people to whom there religion makes them the person they are. |
lucjan said: 1. Doesn't justify the result. Agreed. But remember, I'm saying this from the hypothetical perspective of a Bible-believing Christian. In 2 Samuel 13, Amnon rapes Tamar, and afterward, Tamar pleads with him to marry her (to not abandon her) -- she wanted marriage with her rapist more than the rapist did. lucjan said: 2. A) The bible has been translated very accurately from Hebrew. On the other hand, the Quran's translation from Arabic has been criticized. B) So what...? The translation you were using of that particular passage wasn't accurately translated at all (and, incidentally, Arabic and Hebrew are both Semetic languages, so despite the fact that more effort has historically been put into translating the Bible than the Quran, a translation of the Bible is often going to have the same sorts of inaccuracies). No word in the original Hebrew of Deuteronomy 22:28 should be translated as "rape" or an equivalent of "rape;" the word used is taphas, which is never used in the Bible in the context of actual rape (and probably not in any Hebrew literature, although I won't make assumptions). A Hebrew author had other words to signify rape -- such as chazaq, which is used in Deuteronomy 22:25 (which is why I mentioned that verse) and the passage I mentioned above, 2 Samuel 13. It's thought by many Christians that taphas was used to signify consensual sex (or, more appropriately in the context of the verse, sex which a man persuades a woman to have, which is still consensual), as a counterpoint to the use of chazaq in verse 25. If so, God wouldn't be punishing a rape victim, he'd be punishing someone having consensual sex outside of marriage. (Now that in itself is another topic, but it has nothing to do with rape.) lucjan said: 3. Christians are still to acknowledge and praise it. It is, after all, written by the same God spoken of in the New Testament. Agreed. But that doesn't mean they're to follow that law (I only mentioned this point to make it clear that a modern-day Christian who follows every word written in the Bible without fail wouldn't condone a situation similar to that in Morocco, even if he were forced to acknowledge and praise the fact that God condoned it in the past -- I think we're in total agreement on this point). |
AnnoKano said: [snip] A better way to disect the question might be to ask what the differences are between hating someone's fundamental beliefs and hating them as a person. Hrm, fair enough. But... AnnoKano said: If you hate someone's fundamental beliefs, you are hate something that is a significant aspect of their being, perhaps what makes them as a person. Furthermore, your fundamental beliefs are not something you inherit, they are something you develop yourself. ...just an example to think about. Recall the Nazis back in World War II. Today we look at them as completely immoral people considering they were able to do what they did. Many of them justified his or her actions by saying I'm just doing my job. If you consider that reason for a moment then perhaps the malicious intent associated with them is not ubiquitous. Then if you ever have time try to find photos of what these killers did during his or her spare time when genocide wasn't on the to-do list. You'll see they've got families, hang out with friends, drink at the bar, play poker, dance, ect. ect. If you just take away how casually they can do something that deplorable, then what are we left with? |
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| I get the feeling everyone ignored the Girls opinions and thoughts and selfishly chose what THEY thought was best for her.. And it just so happened that everyone who had to approve of the marriage is completely stupid. I hate terrible stories like this, but seriously who raised these stupid people? Cavemen? |
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