Why nobody appreciating male-oriented romance shows?

Mar 28, 2016 1:08 PM

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Jul 2015

266

Nigami_Shin said:

ThatDarnIrishMan said:
Most anime fans are straight males. So of course they are more interested in women related romance than male ones.

Not even a discussion, it's just obvious.

male oriented romance means romance anime made for a male audience.

most of romance for guys is combined with other genres like fantasy or sci-fi and nearly always with action. personally i can think of quite a bunch of male oriented shows which feature romance/relationships like golden time, nhk ni youkoso, ookami to koushinryou, steins;gate, chuunibyou, oreimo, darker than black, bakuman, ....

Probably jumped the gun since even after reading the initial post I was still convinced he was talking about gay anime.

If that's the angle OP was going for, I still think it's pretty dumb.

Anime is watched primarily by men still and I can't think of any romance show where men don't watch it anyway. Very few actual anime fans go "Ew, no, this is a romance aimed at women, fuck that."

Romance for men is also a side-story like you however mentioned. Most anime have some form of romance running through it, from Gundam Wing to Boku Dake. Hell, even Angel Beats is an anime mainly guys seem to watch and it's heavily based on a shitty romance.

I don't really think guys look down on romance, just that's rarely the main focus for men.

Mar 28, 2016 2:20 PM

#52

Fundog

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Nov 2010

586

flannan said:

Fundog said:

And Clannad's male lead is a beta male whining incessantly and tolerates the nonsense that those girls put him through. Starfish fetish? Dango? His love interest is a good-two-shoes who's too scared to skip a class. Yeah, that's clearly targeted at a straight male.

I detect sarcasm here, but I don't see what is wrong.

Maybe you have not seen much harems? A harem lead is usually a bland character, because the audience doesn't care for him - they're here to see the girls. Many of them are, in fact, only good for their reproductive ability, and are stated to be bad at sports, studies and everything else except seducing girls. They seem to have very strong pheromones or something, because any girl or woman that spends too long in their presence starts wanting the male lead.

I do not understand the part about goody-two-shoes love interest too. Must be something about your background.

If this is just a generic harem, then it fails because none of the females are remotely attractive, both physically and in personality. Liking someone with those retarded fetishes like starfish cakes is akin to liking a psycho or a weirdo.

Yoshii Kiria took over as leader of Fairytale and rebuilt it and became one of Tsukunes formidable enemies but let's save that story for another time

Hehe, let me introduce him to you again, kid. This is Shuzen Issa (who is MIA during the final battle), who will become your 'trainer' starting today. You still have much to go if you want to become the headmaster.

Like the two souls have started to become one.

Mar 28, 2016 2:44 PM

#53

ShotaKing

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Apr 2011

7

I actually find a lot of people I know mistaking Seinin anime in general for being Shoujo oddly enough, like Ah! My Goddess, Clannad, Wandering Son, Gankutsuou, and Saikano just to name a few I've heard off the top of my head. I just don't think people can associate men with anything that isn't ecchi or action. Just like some less romantic shoujo is confused for shounen.

Mar 28, 2016 3:35 PM

#54

RLinksoul

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Sep 2011

1782

While I can't think of many male targeted romance shows off the top of my head (Toradora in the forefront of my mind) I tend to prefer shoujo/jousei targeted anything over seinen.

It's hard to describe the feeling I get from a show that's made for girls, vs one that's made for guys. It lacks a certain... fluff... and attempts to make the anime look pretty, which I think goes better with a subject such as romance.

It's also more often the female characters focused on in shows of that target audience, which I also find to be more appealing in a story about expressing feelings of love, than if the protagonist were male.

Cause honestly sometimes I just find that male targeted shows can't portray women as fleshed out characters, often resorting to very basic tropes like the typical tsundere or emotionless girl, and working in characterization from there.

Mar 28, 2016 11:49 PM

#55

flannan

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Nov 2009

8716

Fundog said:

flannan said:

I detect sarcasm here, but I don't see what is wrong.

Maybe you have not seen much harems? A harem lead is usually a bland character, because the audience doesn't care for him - they're here to see the girls. Many of them are, in fact, only good for their reproductive ability, and are stated to be bad at sports, studies and everything else except seducing girls. They seem to have very strong pheromones or something, because any girl or woman that spends too long in their presence starts wanting the male lead.

I do not understand the part about goody-two-shoes love interest too. Must be something about your background.

If this is just a generic harem, then it fails because none of the females are remotely attractive, both physically and in personality. Liking someone with those retarded fetishes like starfish cakes is akin to liking a psycho or a weirdo.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually finished Clannad, and my previous description was about harems in general, not Clannad in particular.

From what I remember, the girls weren't cliched. At least not cliched for people who aren't Key. (Key is the author collective who make Clannad, Kanon, Air and probably some others)

Liking a psycho or a weirdo is not unusual. Gasai Yuno is a favorite of 18120 MAL users at the moment, making her #11 most popular character on MAL.
If you want an ordinary honor student, Key anime is not what you want. Key heroines are mostly high-grade moe with a dose of supernatural romance.

Edit: on a related note, Yuno is the most popular girl on MAL, with about 1500 lead over the next popular girl, Makise Kurisu the genius scientist, and 7500 lead over Asuna Yuuki the honor student. The girls in-between them are also quite crazy: Aisaka "Palmtop Tiger" Taiga, Senjougahara Hitagi, Suzumiya Haruhi the goddess of fun. Or weird: Holo "The Wise Wolf", Izumi Konata the otaku, Ackerman Mikasa the avenger, Saber the knight from another time...

flannanMar 28, 2016 11:57 PM

Mar 29, 2016 1:33 AM

#56

Gotaname

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Dec 2013

5

hoopla123 said:

Fundog said:

Lol says the retard Clannad fanboy. Go cry about the shitty ending and how it's so sad.

I hope it does give you cancer. people like you are worthless in our society.

EDIT: Oh whoops, I'm sorry, I appear to have bashed on one of your favourite anime HAHAHA. And you like that anime with all the gay doods too, Shinsekai yori. Now I see the connection.

Says the kid whose so scared of being shit on that he won't even show access to his manga list?

Topkek.

Clannad and Clannad Afterstory source material is from a fucking VN targeted to males. How the fuck is that not a male oriented show?

Well you surely are not a troll, just another retard on this site.

Learn to use your brain next time dipshit.

But Clanned genre are teen/school/slice of life/rommance clearly aimed at males right?

Mar 29, 2016 1:50 AM

#57

flannan

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

Gotaname said:
But Clanned genre are teen/school/slice of life/rommance clearly aimed at males right?

MAL lists the show as

Genres: Comedy, Drama, Romance, School, Slice of Life, Supernatural

It is also, arguably, a harem.
Its target audience is, most likely, teenage or young adult males, but there is no particular reason why other people can't watch it.

Fundog and Hoopla are locked in an argument and so you might have trouble understanding them if you aren't good at internet English. Hell, even I find it tiring to read them.
But Fundog seems to argue that Clannad is not manly enough. Probably Dark Shneider, the MC from anime Bastard, is the kind of harem lead he prefers.
Edit: here's a tvtropes page for sufficiently many shows: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TestosteronePoisoning
Edit2: This one is good too: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RatedMForManly

But for saner people, Clannad is sufficiently male-oriented, and the question is "does it count as romance"?

flannanMar 29, 2016 2:00 AM

Mar 29, 2016 2:28 AM

#58

Gotaname

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Dec 2013

5

flannan said:

Gotaname said:
But Clanned genre are teen/school/slice of life/rommance clearly aimed at males right?

MAL lists the show as

Genres: Comedy, Drama, Romance, School, Slice of Life, Supernatural

It is also, arguably, a harem.
Its target audience is, most likely, teenage or young adult males, but there is no particular reason why other people can't watch it.

Fundog and Hoopla are locked in an argument and so you might have trouble understanding them if you aren't good at internet English. Hell, even I find it tiring to read them.
But Fundog seems to argue that Clannad is not manly enough. Probably Dark Shneider, the MC from anime Bastard, is the kind of harem lead he prefers.
Edit: here's a tvtropes page for sufficiently many shows: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TestosteronePoisoning
Edit2: This one is good too: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RatedMForManly

But for saner people, Clannad is sufficiently male-oriented, and the question is "does it count as romance"?

My point was that the anime is based on themes/genres that appeal more to girls then boys. It might have harem elements (also these elements are found more in the vn then the ainmae) but from i have watched and heard the main appeal of the show is the romance between the main leads. These leads are high schoolers. Teen/young romance is almost exclusively a genre aimed at young girls. More over the characters themselves are character typical of rommances aimed at young girls. As a whole clanned is average plup fiction (cliche ridden mass produced romance). If it has any harem elements these are just to satiate the male audience who liked the vn

Mar 29, 2016 2:40 AM

#59

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564491

Fundog said:
VNs are all hentai

No.
And I haven't played the Clannad VN, but if I trust wikipedia, the rating of this VN is "all ages", thus clearly not an hentai.

ShotaKing said:
I actually find a lot of people I know mistaking Seinin anime in general for being Shoujo oddly enough, like Ah! My Goddess, Clannad, Wandering Son, Gankutsuou, and Saikano just to name a few I've heard off the top of my head. I just don't think people can associate men with anything that isn't ecchi or action. Just like some less romantic shoujo is confused for shounen.

Some people don't really understand that the demographic of an anime depends only on the demographic of its source material, usually.

But anyway, the demographic don't really matter. In the old time, there were a big difference of style of drawing between a shōjo and a shōnen manga.
But today, I have an hard time to distinguish a shōjo manga from a shōnen manga by the look alone.
It is worse for the anime, were the drawing style is even more standardized than in manga.

Mar 29, 2016 2:44 AM

#60

flannan

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Nov 2009

8716

Gotaname said:
My point was that the anime is based on themes/genres that appeal more to girls then boys. It might have harem elements (also these elements are found more in the vn then the ainmae) but from i have watched and heard the main appeal of the show is the romance between the main leads. These leads are high schoolers. Teen/young romance is almost exclusively a genre aimed at young girls. More over the characters themselves are character typical of rommances aimed at young girls. As a whole clanned is average plup fiction (cliche ridden mass produced romance). If it has any harem elements these are just to satiate the male audience who liked the vn

1) I haven't actually played Clannad VN, but I think it's structured just like the typical VN: multiple timelines dedicated to different girls, and you get to choose one of them.
"Harem" situation is the result of cramming all those timelines into one, and doesn't really exist in many VNs.

2) While girls are said to like romance a lot, it does not mean men don't watch romance. In fact, this topic is about male-oriented romance anime, and people have listed a number of well-known shows here.

3) I'm not a specialist in romance aimed at young girls, so I can't say if the characters are like those in girl-oriented romance.
But I've seen a lot of harems and a number of male-oriented romance shows. And Clannad looks like one of them so far.

Mar 29, 2016 4:47 AM

#61

Kuma

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Mar 2015

47028

ShotaKing said:
I actually find a lot of people I know mistaking Seinin anime in general for being Shoujo oddly enough, like Ah! My Goddess, Clannad, Wandering Son, Gankutsuou, and Saikano just to name a few I've heard off the top of my head. I just don't think people can associate men with anything that isn't ecchi or action. Just like some less romantic shoujo is confused for shounen.

clannad and gankutsuou is not seinen thou.

"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on."

Mar 29, 2016 4:59 AM

#62

shintai88

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May 2009

12620

What are the examples you are using here?
I mean Clannad is more Male Oriented. Since Harem and based on a VN with MC Being male.

Where as Itazura kiss more shoujou, Female Oriented.

Personally I enjoy both. I don't enjoy all that there is to offer, since some are less appealing. But a majority are enjoyable.

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Mar 29, 2016 4:59 AM

#63

DateYutaka

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Mar 2011

25072

the era of the best anime/manga in romance gamre is long gone

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Mar 29, 2016 5:05 AM

#64

shintai88

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May 2009

12620

DateYutaka said:
the era of the best anime/manga in romance gamre is long gone

Which Era was that? Could you give me some examples.

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Mar 29, 2016 5:22 AM

#65

DateYutaka

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Mar 2011

25072

shintai88 said:

DateYutaka said:
the era of the best anime/manga in romance gamre is long gone

Which Era was that? Could you give me some examples.

the late 70's-late 80's over all while there wasa few good ones in the 90's romace over all as ganre is ded i mean pure romance stuff

look at the MAL db under romance and you will see over all im right

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Mar 29, 2016 6:48 AM

#66

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564491

I don't know who's trolling who so i just answer to OP, even though he could be a troll too, i don't know anything anymore :^(

First, what makes a "male-oriented romance anime":

1. It is either an adaption from a shounen or seinen magazine-series, or an adaption from a VN or LN marketed to men
2. That is genred and/or advertized as a "romance".

Ok. Those kind of anime, i would say, are very popular and appreciated. Just inspect MAL's "Top Anime" List.

And i don't mind that, since female-targeted romance stuff is mostly trash to me as i'm not a misogynist.

removed-userMar 29, 2016 6:51 AM

Mar 29, 2016 7:10 AM

#67

flannan

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Nov 2009

8716

taro said:
First, what makes a "male-oriented romance anime":

1. It is either an adaption from a shounen or seinen magazine-series, or an adaption from a VN or LN marketed to men
2. That is genred and/or advertized as a "romance".

Ok. Those kind of anime, i would say, are very popular and appreciated. Just inspect MAL's "Top Anime" List.

Let's take a look at the first page of that list:
Clannad: After Story. Sequel bias, but I guess it's really a male-oriented romance. Gotta watch it someday.
Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso. This one fits well.
The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya. I wouldn't call this romance, but it has the tag.
Monogatari. Sequel bias strikes again, and it's tagged "romance". Is it actually just a harem? Gotta watch this one some time later.
Howl no Ugoku Shiro. Romance, but I doubt it's male-oriented. The original book was definitely female-oriented, but Ghibli change their adaptations a whole lot.
Yojouhan Shinwa Taikei. Tagged "romance", but it probably isn't.

Overall, 1 good example, 4 dubious ones. Out of 50. Unimpressive.

Mar 29, 2016 7:23 AM

#68

shintai88

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May 2009

12620

Detective Conan. Whilst Romance is not the main focus, it is still a part of the story, I mean the number of couples and growing couples in the show.

Not to mention Conans own harem that is slowly growing.

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Mar 29, 2016 8:35 AM

#69

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564491

flannan said:

taro said:
First, what makes a "male-oriented romance anime":

1. It is either an adaption from a shounen or seinen magazine-series, or an adaption from a VN or LN marketed to men
2. That is genred and/or advertized as a "romance".

Ok. Those kind of anime, i would say, are very popular and appreciated. Just inspect MAL's "Top Anime" List.

Let's take a look at the first page of that list:
Clannad: After Story. Sequel bias, but I guess it's really a male-oriented romance. Gotta watch it someday.
Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso. This one fits well.
The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya. I wouldn't call this romance, but it has the tag.
Monogatari. Sequel bias strikes again, and it's tagged "romance". Is it actually just a harem? Gotta watch this one some time later.
Howl no Ugoku Shiro. Romance, but I doubt it's male-oriented. The original book was definitely female-oriented, but Ghibli change their adaptations a whole lot.
Yojouhan Shinwa Taikei. Tagged "romance", but it probably isn't.

Overall, 1 good example, 4 dubious ones. Out of 50. Unimpressive.

...You do know that the listing goes further than top 50?* Also, I admit i didn't check, but i doubt women have more romance anime aimed for them in that top 50 than there are for men. But in the sea of popular action and fantasy anime, expecting the straightforward and simple romance stories to completely take over the top of popularity chart is absurd anyway.

You personally can't set the rules on what is accepted on the said "romance-aimed-for-men" category. The things i listed on my first post are the basic definitions, not something i pulled out of my ass. Clannad and Monogatari-series are romance anime aimed for men even if you haven't seen them, or wouldn't agree them being those.

*Edit: Saw later that you said "first page", so apparently you do know it goes beyond top 50, which makes this conversation even more dumb.

removed-userMar 29, 2016 8:44 AM

Mar 29, 2016 11:10 AM

#70

ShotaKing

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Apr 2011

7

Kuma said:

ShotaKing said:
I actually find a lot of people I know mistaking Seinin anime in general for being Shoujo oddly enough, like Ah! My Goddess, Clannad, Wandering Son, Gankutsuou, and Saikano just to name a few I've heard off the top of my head. I just don't think people can associate men with anything that isn't ecchi or action. Just like some less romantic shoujo is confused for shounen.

clannad and gankutsuou is not seinen thou.

Gankutsuou was published in monthly afternoon which is a seinin publication. Clannad is a 15+ game with a straight male romance and Tomoyo after the sequel game is a hentai game. I'd take this to mean their target is older males so seinin isn't a bad guess for the target demo.

Mar 29, 2016 11:15 AM

#71

Kuma

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Mar 2015

47028

ShotaKing said:

Kuma said:

clannad and gankutsuou is not seinen thou.

Gankutsuou was published in monthly afternoon which is a seinin publication. Clannad is a 15+ game with a straight male romance and Tomoyo after the sequel game is a hentai game. I'd take this to mean their target is older males so seinin isn't a bad guess for the target demo.

gankutsuo manga can be called seinen, but anime can't. it novel adaptation and came before manga. as for clannad, clannad is VN, and VN demographic is different from manga demographic (i am not sure how VN demographic works, i have no knowladge about it)). clannad manga adaptation even have shounen demographic.

"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on."

Mar 29, 2016 11:32 AM

#72

flannan

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Nov 2009

8716

taro said:
...You do know that the listing goes further than top 50?*

Yes, I do. But I did not have the time to be making thorough research.

taro said:
You personally can't set the rules on what is accepted on the said "romance-aimed-for-men" category. The things i listed on my first post are the basic definitions, not something i pulled out of my ass. Clannad and Monogatari-series are romance anime aimed for men even if you haven't seen them, or wouldn't agree them being those.

1) I am ridiculously arrogant, so I can.
2) In this discussion, we mostly speak about shows that are primarily romance, or romance is one of the major components. Tags seem to be put a lot easier than that.

Mar 29, 2016 12:20 PM

#73

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564491

flannan said:

taro said:
...You do know that the listing goes further than top 50?*

Yes, I do. But I did not have the time to be making thorough research.

taro said:
You personally can't set the rules on what is accepted on the said "romance-aimed-for-men" category. The things i listed on my first post are the basic definitions, not something i pulled out of my ass. Clannad and Monogatari-series are romance anime aimed for men even if you haven't seen them, or wouldn't agree them being those.

1) I am ridiculously arrogant, so I can.
2) In this discussion, we mostly speak about shows that are primarily romance, or romance is one of the major components. Tags seem to be put a lot easier than that.

1) Nice. I'm too, and so i can state the fact that every opinion of yours is wrong, except the one in which you secretly think i'm the best, just the best.
2) There are still enough of those shows, and they are appreciated as much they deserve.

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