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Anime Producers To Hold Anime Contents Expo in Opposition to TAF

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#1
12-28-10, 1:45 AM

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Kadokawa Shoten and seven major anime producers announced a new anime exhibition "Anime Contents Expo" in opposition to Tokyo International Anime Fair (TAF). It will be held on March 26th and 27th at Makuhari Messe, which is located in Chiba Prefecture next to Tokyo. TAF will be held from March 24th - 27th.

The members of the executive committee
Aniplex
Animate
Kadokawa Shoten
King Records (Starchild Records)
Geneon Universal Entertainment
Frontier Works
Marvelous Entertainment
Media Factory

The anime producers stated in the announcement that they have decided to boycott TAF to show their opposition to Tokyo government's Anime & Manga Regulation Ordinance. Considering the anticipation of the anime fans and the necessity to exhibit the new anime titles, they had been seeking an alternative opportunity.

Source: Kadokawa
Related topics:
Ten Major Manga Publishers To Boycott Tokyo International Anime Fair
Japanese Anime Producers State TAF 2011 Is Impracticable
Modified by dtshyk, 12-28-10, 2:07 AM
 
#2
12-28-10, 1:52 AM

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You know, these things are why I still think Japan functions differently than most countries in the west. Here, in Germany, nothing like that would ever happen. Everyone would whine about it, but still not much would happen.
 
#3
12-28-10, 1:57 AM
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I'm actually glad they decide to go so much and so obvious against the regulation . Ppl usually just try to fight without any REAL action . It's nice to see that once in a while c: If it's so obvious , the government will be cornered sooner c:

If only I were there , I'd so totally go x3
 
#4
12-28-10, 2:01 AM

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row row fight the power
 
#5
12-28-10, 2:11 AM

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i support this 100% gonna go see this when i head over to japan in '11
 
#6
12-28-10, 2:18 AM

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apocalipse369 said:
row row fight the power


Beat me to it.
 
#7
12-28-10, 2:27 AM

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Awesomeness
 
#8
12-28-10, 2:40 AM

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apocalipse369 said:
row row fight the power

Why does everyone keep saying this in every thread about an opposition to the new law thingy? o-o
 
#9
12-28-10, 2:41 AM

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Good to know that they are still holding the exhibition even if it is in Chiba. I say a outright win to kill the final two days of TAF.

Who will go to TAF which doesn't have Kimi ni Todoke, Gundam Unicorn, Major, InuYasha, Kobato, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Fairy Tail, Dragon Ball, Detective Conan, Yumeiro Pâtissière and many more of the mainstream titles taken out of it.



The TAF 2011 is all but dead.

 
12-28-10, 2:41 AM

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Kiru_im_Ufo said:
You know, these things are why I still think Japan functions differently than most countries in the west. Here, in Germany, nothing like that would ever happen. Everyone would whine about it, but still not much would happen.


you sure about that?

Im sure in germany it would've never come to this.
(I do think germans are sensible people when they aren't wasted :P)
 
12-28-10, 2:43 AM

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I hope everyone boycotts the TAF and go to this one. I wish I were there too...

and..

row row fight tha powah~
 
12-28-10, 2:56 AM

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cold war is starting
 
12-28-10, 3:12 AM

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I find it a little funny some of the people here are bashing their own countries just to support Japan.

We aint that different, boys and girls. Be it American, Canadian, Mexican, Japanese, German, English, Brazilian, or whatnot.
 
12-28-10, 3:18 AM

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Nice. It would be great if nobody came to TAF.

apocalipse369 said:
row row fight the power
 
12-28-10, 3:32 AM

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nextday said:
I like where this is going.


xD
 
12-28-10, 5:32 AM

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That's very risky. If they don't get enough audience it'll look bad
Ultimately, there is a freedom to take the consequences (Terry Pratchett)

 
12-28-10, 5:51 AM

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Tucz said:
Nice. It would be great if nobody came to TAF.


absolutely ..

 
12-28-10, 5:56 AM

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I'm certainly pleased with where it's going. Although i won't be able to be there...
レッツゴー ED イケイケゴーゴー
 
12-28-10, 6:59 AM

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QwaserRailgun said:
apocalipse369 said:
row row fight the power

Why does everyone keep saying this in every thread about an opposition to the new law thingy? o-o

Its a reference to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.
 
12-28-10, 8:01 AM

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Sabinlerose said:
I find it a little funny some of the people here are bashing their own countries just to support Japan.

We aint that different, boys and girls. Be it American, Canadian, Mexican, Japanese, German, English, Brazilian, or whatnot.


I don't think it's that surprising. If you are an anime fan and you aren't actually from Japan, it means you have a certain respect for the artform that goes beyond some sense of loyalty to a country.

Even in the lightning-fast digitized world of the 2010's, anime and manga are still unique and inspiring somehow, and its a shame to see politicians - outsiders honestly - putting their hands all over a cultural treasure just because they can.

I think people can relate to the situation. I think some of us who aren't from Japan can look at aspects of our own entertainment choices and feel bad about what regulations and social pressures have done to it over time.
 
12-28-10, 8:11 AM

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lol, so this is where the real party will be...



"If only if only, the woodpecker cried, the bark on the tree was as soft as the sky" || ♪My mind, heart is broken♫
 
12-28-10, 8:34 AM

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nextday said:
I like where this is going.


These words are exactly the ones I had in my mind XD

Kiru_im_Ufo said:
You know, these things are why I still think Japan functions differently than most countries in the west. Here, in Germany, nothing like that would ever happen. Everyone would whine about it, but still not much would happen.


It's kind of sad, but I agree XD
Still, if a bill like the one in Japan passed in Germany, it definitely would not affect us as much as it currently does over there... Anime/manga is part of their culture, which is not really the case over here (sadly, again)...
Modified by Face_Faith, 12-28-10, 8:51 AM
 
12-28-10, 9:50 AM

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Row row fight the powah indeed.
Suck it, Ishihara. What are you going to do now, blackmail the Chiba Prefecture's government to follow your little moralist crusade?
 
12-28-10, 10:07 AM

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or

or


minor differences but all are still awesome.
Modified by GunplaIsFreedom, 12-28-10, 10:15 AM
 
12-28-10, 10:23 AM

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well good for them
 
12-28-10, 11:02 AM

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Ishihara, tear up this bill.


 
12-28-10, 11:40 AM

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case649 said:
Sabinlerose said:
I find it a little funny some of the people here are bashing their own countries just to support Japan.

We aint that different, boys and girls. Be it American, Canadian, Mexican, Japanese, German, English, Brazilian, or whatnot.


I don't think it's that surprising. If you are an anime fan and you aren't actually from Japan, it means you have a certain respect for the artform that goes beyond some sense of loyalty to a country.

Even in the lightning-fast digitized world of the 2010's, anime and manga are still unique and inspiring somehow, and its a shame to see politicians - outsiders honestly - putting their hands all over a cultural treasure just because they can.

I think people can relate to the situation. I think some of us who aren't from Japan can look at aspects of our own entertainment choices and feel bad about what regulations and social pressures have done to it over time.

I would argue that Anime and Manga is to the Japanese people nothing like how western Otakus have "saintified" it.

The grass always looks green from the other side.
I'm pretty sure very few Japanese people would call anime and manga "national treasures."

Would you as an American call Avatar (2010 movie), Twilight, 7-11, or David Hasselhoff national treasures of America? They are all huge across the worst mostly in Europe or Japan.
Granted thats not exactly a remotely fair comparison. But you see where I come from surely.
 
12-28-10, 12:05 PM

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nextday said:
I like where this is going.
so am I

And like Oro I wont be there ;p
 
12-28-10, 1:23 PM

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Sabinlerose said:
I would argue that Anime and Manga is to the Japanese people nothing like how western Otakus have "saintified" it.

The grass always looks green from the other side.
I'm pretty sure very few Japanese people would call anime and manga "national treasures."


Maybe not if it was put to a popular vote, but is that any kind of standard to measure by? Would the Mona Lisa pass that test? Michelangelo's David? Botticelli's Venus? Is it okay for government to place restrictions on fine art?

In our lifetime, aside from maybe food, can you think of any other cultural exports from Japan that are more well known and patronized than anime and manga? People worldwide write books about the creators and the industry, imitate the artistic style, write fanfiction, organize fan groups, setup websites and forums where fans can gather and discuss and compare lists. The Japanese (national) government even recognizes that fact and promotes those art forms pretty generously as an export!

So, of course anime and manga are cultural treasures! Can you think of anything these days that has seized people's hearts and minds on that huge of a scale? Even Avatar? Even American Idol? Even Justin Bieber? Anything else you mentioned? I'm not aware of any governments throwing around wads of cash to promote any of these things to other countries.

Gotta say, honestly, I find it more than a little discouraging that anyone would argue with that statement on a message board of nothing but anime fans ._.
Modified by case649, 12-28-10, 1:34 PM
 
12-28-10, 1:24 PM

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stand tall and hard anime industry FUCK over the government!

I signed my screen and now its all smeary "When you meet your God tell him to leave me alone."

check out my bloghttp://corpse69.wordpress.com/

fix MAL already
 
12-28-10, 9:31 PM

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Sabinlerose said:
I'm pretty sure very few Japanese people would call anime and manga "national treasures."

Sorry to say this but you have no idea how much anime means to Japanese culture and their tradition. It's not only an industry that provides more than 60% of all the animation produced every year in the whole world, it also upholds their culture and represents the traditions of their culture and its heritage to the rest of the world.

 
12-28-10, 11:18 PM

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Tokyo Local Government Status
[ ] Told
[ ]FUCKING TOLD
[X]ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWA TOLD
いいですね オタクの事
 
12-29-10, 12:19 AM

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Sabinlerose said:
I find it a little funny some of the people here are bashing their own countries just to support Japan.

We aint that different, boys and girls. Be it American, Canadian, Mexican, Japanese, German, English, Brazilian, or whatnot.

we've seen what people do in our own countries all the time, as opposed to this small sample of extreem awesomeness that we know of from Japan, so it's not supprising with that comparison that our own countries look bad
i've noticed in america if something that someone(s) doesn't like one of 3 things will happen
1: we'll stand outside holding signs for a day or two
2: quit
3: piss and moan and wait for the next election
so of course Japan looks better when all i've seen is a qroup banding together sayin "fuck you" to the government and undercuting them whenever possible.


as for the actual topic, HELL YEA! this is genius, eventually this will lead to one of those situations where everyone just turns and glares at the person responsible for the trouble XD
 
12-29-10, 12:32 AM

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those who are still in TAF... now have a place for them to run to
 
12-29-10, 1:11 AM

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shanimebib said:
Sabinlerose said:
I'm pretty sure very few Japanese people would call anime and manga "national treasures."

Sorry to say this but you have no idea how much anime means to Japanese culture and their tradition. It's not only an industry that provides more than 60% of all the animation produced every year in the whole world, it also upholds their culture and represents the traditions of their culture and its heritage to the rest of the world.

Source pls?

Because...I mean no offence at all.
But that sounds like something straight out of an Otakus ass.

60% I highly doubt that number.
MAYBE 60% of all broadcast animation on certain T.V networks...But even then I have an extreme doubt over it.

How exactly is rape hentai, ecchi, schoolgirls, and mecha upholding Japanese culture?
I mean sure you can give me proper examples of anime that hold Japanese culture well. But...my examples give it a clear and undenyable counter.

Also, inb4 I get called a troll for having an opinion in the minority.

ShadowGilgamesh said:
Sabinlerose said:
I find it a little funny some of the people here are bashing their own countries just to support Japan.

We aint that different, boys and girls. Be it American, Canadian, Mexican, Japanese, German, English, Brazilian, or whatnot.

we've seen what people do in our own countries all the time, as opposed to this small sample of extreem awesomeness that we know of from Japan, so it's not supprising with that comparison that our own countries look bad
i've noticed in america if something that someone(s) doesn't like one of 3 things will happen
1: we'll stand outside holding signs for a day or two
2: quit
3: piss and moan and wait for the next election
so of course Japan looks better when all i've seen is a qroup banding together sayin "fuck you" to the government and undercuting them whenever possible.


as for the actual topic, HELL YEA! this is genius, eventually this will lead to one of those situations where everyone just turns and glares at the person responsible for the trouble XD

Welcome to the world of politics.
That shit happens weekly. Most people just don't know because they....don't care.
This is something they care about so they are looking with biased eyes.

The Anti HST campain in Canada's British Columbia was the exact same thing. People fought back. Still fighting back.
Teens just don't know about it....because they don't care. It doesn't effect them. Anime effects them. They care. They see it as crazy awesome "action" when shit like it happens all the time in other countries.

Again I'm not bashing Japan or anything. I support this. Libera me from hell all the way. Row row.
But....It's not exactly a pinnacle of rebellion or anything.

case649 said:

Is it okay for government to place restrictions on fine art?


Hooold up.
I'm supporting this.
I don't like complete restrictions. I want to see an ESRB sort of system put in place.
Keep the garbage like Ecchi away from kids, ect ect.

I just don't think the action the anime companies are taking is exactly...revolutionary.
Nor do I think anime and manga are national treasures. xD
Modified by Sabinlerose, 12-29-10, 1:37 AM
 
12-29-10, 12:17 PM

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When they show they wear kimonos and yukatas during festivals, when they show they use separate pairs of shoes in school, when they show their shoes being kept outside in a section little lower to the level of the floor plan of the house, when they show when someone entering the room on their knees as they sit straight and use both of their arms to slide open the door, when they show they take a gift or a greeting card with the tips of their fingers and the thumbs using both of their hands as they lean forward to show their appreciation, those are the small details which show their culture. You are too restricted to your personal take on anime and think anime is all about mecha, ecchi, schoolgirls and rape-hentai. I won't say you are a troll. Because you just think you are one yourself.

But I have nothing against the new law as I have said earlier in the other threads as long as it doesn't go overboard and picks on every single thing out there. I say you read the rest of the articles/news and replies regarding the TAF and the new law in news section before blurting out stuff that shows you are awfully unaware of the fact that you're wasting your time with 600 posts in a forum which deals with something you don't even know how to appreciate. I suggest you do something better and get into something which you will enjoy.

Happy Holidays. Go out with friends and ask hi to your relatives. In other words, 'Get a Life'. I guarantee you, it won't hurt. :)

 
12-29-10, 2:32 PM

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shanimebib said:
When they show they wear kimonos and yukatas during festivals, when they show they use separate pairs of shoes in school, when they show their shoes being kept outside in a section little lower to the level of the floor plan of the house, when they show when someone entering the room on their knees as they sit straight and use both of their arms to slide open the door, when they show they take a gift or a greeting card with the tips of their fingers and the thumbs using both of their hands as they lean forward to show their appreciation, those are the small details which show their culture. You are too restricted to your personal take on anime and think anime is all about mecha, ecchi, schoolgirls and rape-hentai. I won't say you are a troll. Because you just think you are one yourself.

But I have nothing against the new law as I have said earlier in the other threads as long as it doesn't go overboard and picks on every single thing out there. I say you read the rest of the articles/news and replies regarding the TAF and the new law in news section before blurting out stuff that shows you are awfully unaware of the fact that you're wasting your time with 600 posts in a forum which deals with something you don't even know how to appreciate. I suggest you do something better and get into something which you will enjoy.

Happy Holidays. Go out with friends and ask hi to your relatives. In other words, 'Get a Life'. I guarantee you, it won't hurt. :)

Jesus Christ.
Good argument there.
-laughs-

Ignore what I say, throw in some vaguely veiled insults so you can have the morally high ground, and then say get a life. Totally a way to give a counter opinion.....without actually responding to a single thing I said.

Clearly I don't know how to enjoy myself. Clearly I don't know what I enjoy. You keep saying I don't enjoy anime properly...who the fuck are? Some kind of god who determains what is right and wrong?
How exactly is one supposed to enjoy anime properly?
 
12-30-10, 7:02 AM

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shanimebib said:
But I have nothing against the new law as I have said earlier in the other threads as long as it doesn't go overboard and picks on every single thing out there. I say you read the rest of the articles/news and replies regarding the TAF and the new law in news section before blurting out stuff that shows you are awfully unaware of the fact that you're wasting your time with 600 posts in a forum which deals with something you don't even know how to appreciate. I suggest you do something better and get into something which you will enjoy.


Exactly what I was thinking. When I look at this thread, about 50 percent of the comments are like "to hell with the government." Then I go read about the Tokyo's Youth Ordinance Bill, and nothing struck me as unfair. I don't know...Maybe people just don't like government regulations. Maybe they just like to go with the flow. Sabinlerose I nodded in ageement when you said "keep ecchi stuff away from kids." But I mean, really, look at how much ecchi genre changed over the past 5 years. It used to be subtle panty flashes, bra shots, shower scenes and...ok you get the picture. But now? Bare boobs, cameltoes, even actual sex scenes (not hentai). Some examples would be Queen's Blade, Seikon no Qwaser, and Yosuga no Sora (extreme). Clearly the anime industry (or manga) are asking for it.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that before government regulation kicks in, the anime industry itself lacks self regulation. When you go to the doujinshi stands in comiket, not one person asks you for your ID. When you go to convenient store, the shelf for adult magazines are right next to JUMP. Just because some anime is aired at midnight doesn't mean they are inaccessible to kids. I forgot who said this earlier in a comment, it is indeed infuriating that the politicians are putting their hands on animes and mangas when they are basically outsiders. But the best way to keep the government out of this is to make sure they can't find excuses to interfere. Some things are rated 18+ or mature for a good reason, and if you keep selling them to underaged audience, well what do you expect? We saw the train wreck coming from a mile away, really, we did. But the DVD/BD sales are good. They removed the mosaic, which makes them worth buying. Thus encouraging them to make more risque materials and hope for better DVD sales. And when the train wreck actually hits, this is all I have to say: "see, I told you it's coming."
Modified by SkyWyvern, 12-30-10, 7:07 AM
 
12-30-10, 9:00 AM

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Sabinlerose said:

I would argue that Anime and Manga is to the Japanese people nothing like how western Otakus have "saintified" it.

The grass always looks green from the other side.
I'm pretty sure very few Japanese people would call anime and manga "national treasures."

Would you as an American call Avatar (2010 movie), Twilight, 7-11, or David Hasselhoff national treasures of America? They are all huge across the worst mostly in Europe or Japan.
Granted thats not exactly a remotely fair comparison. But you see where I come from surely.


I'm sorry? I don't live in "America" and I hate all those you mentioned. Doesn't "America" have better things to be known for? All those "elements" you mentioned hold no meaning to me. I'd say Oprah, Obama, Coco (lol), Titanic, Gone With The Wind, etc...

Anime and Manga represent Japan. If they weren't proud of it, why would they put up anime posters and giant statues all over the country?
By the way, I made a study for my class last year about which symbols represent each country. Guess what, Japan was most known for their "sushi/raw fish, kimono and those weird drawings with big eyes". Of course, it was only a small study, but we inquired more than 100 people >_>
 
12-30-10, 9:33 AM

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SoraKuro said:
Sabinlerose said:

I would argue that Anime and Manga is to the Japanese people nothing like how western Otakus have "saintified" it.

The grass always looks green from the other side.
I'm pretty sure very few Japanese people would call anime and manga "national treasures."

Would you as an American call Avatar (2010 movie), Twilight, 7-11, or David Hasselhoff national treasures of America? They are all huge across the worst mostly in Europe or Japan.
Granted thats not exactly a remotely fair comparison. But you see where I come from surely.


I'm sorry? I don't live in "America" and I hate all those you mentioned. Doesn't "America" have better things to be known for? All those "elements" you mentioned hold no meaning to me. I'd say Oprah, Obama, Coco (lol), Titanic, Gone With The Wind, etc...

Anime and Manga represent Japan. If they weren't proud of it, why would they put up anime posters and giant statues all over the country?
By the way, I made a study for my class last year about which symbols represent each country. Guess what, Japan was most known for their "sushi/raw fish, kimono and those weird drawings with big eyes". Of course, it was only a small study, but we inquired more than 100 people >_>

Curious, what were the ages of said people?

But yes. You further expanded on what I meant. All the things you mentioned are probably larger and bigger then what I said. Yet they aren't exactly national treasures as they? With perhaps the exception of Obama...but again 50% of the country would disagree with that. -laughs-
I don't think anyone would say Hollywood is Americas national treasure. Even when we do all the same sorts of things Japan does for its anime.

SkyWyvern said:
shanimebib said:
But I have nothing against the new law as I have said earlier in the other threads as long as it doesn't go overboard and picks on every single thing out there. I say you read the rest of the articles/news and replies regarding the TAF and the new law in news section before blurting out stuff that shows you are awfully unaware of the fact that you're wasting your time with 600 posts in a forum which deals with something you don't even know how to appreciate. I suggest you do something better and get into something which you will enjoy.


Exactly what I was thinking. When I look at this thread, about 50 percent of the comments are like "to hell with the government." Then I go read about the Tokyo's Youth Ordinance Bill, and nothing struck me as unfair. I don't know...Maybe people just don't like government regulations. Maybe they just like to go with the flow. Sabinlerose I nodded in ageement when you said "keep ecchi stuff away from kids." But I mean, really, look at how much ecchi genre changed over the past 5 years. It used to be subtle panty flashes, bra shots, shower scenes and...ok you get the picture. But now? Bare boobs, cameltoes, even actual sex scenes (not hentai). Some examples would be Queen's Blade, Seikon no Qwaser, and Yosuga no Sora (extreme). Clearly the anime industry (or manga) are asking for it.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that before government regulation kicks in, the anime industry itself lacks self regulation. When you go to the doujinshi stands in comiket, not one person asks you for your ID. When you go to convenient store, the shelf for adult magazines are right next to JUMP. Just because some anime is aired at midnight doesn't mean they are inaccessible to kids. I forgot who said this earlier in a comment, it is indeed infuriating that the politicians are putting their hands on animes and mangas when they are basically outsiders. But the best way to keep the government out of this is to make sure they can't find excuses to interfere. Some things are rated 18+ or mature for a good reason, and if you keep selling them to underaged audience, well what do you expect? We saw the train wreck coming from a mile away, really, we did. But the DVD/BD sales are good. They removed the mosaic, which makes them worth buying. Thus encouraging them to make more risque materials and hope for better DVD sales. And when the train wreck actually hits, this is all I have to say: "see, I told you it's coming."

It takes two to tango. No politician is evil.
And this is hardly the way to fight a battle where the public comes out the victor.

Hopefully some middle party steps in between the giant egos who both think they are right without admitting where they have faults, and some good will come of this.
 
12-30-10, 9:56 AM

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Sabinlerose said:
Nor do I think anime and manga are national treasures. xD


For the record, there's a bit of semantic apples-and-oranges going on here. "National treasure" is the choice of words you keep using, I didn't use that phrase. You misunderstand me completely if you think I'm saying anime is a national treasure of the Japanese people equivalent to the Statue of Liberty, Stone Henge or the Eiffel Tower.

What anime IS, and I'm speechless to think anyone on this site would argue, is a cultural treasure in more of an art history sense: In an age when a lot of artforms are struggling to capture people's attention, anime has been thriving and drawing in more and more fans in spite of economic recessions and technological change and everything else! It's a completely global phenomenon as anyone who's spent more than 10 minutes on MAL is well aware, it's inspired imitators left, right and center, and it's spread Japanese culture and aesthetic concepts far and wide in ways that nothing else I can think of can really rival. Again, ask yourself, what other Japanese cultural export even comes close to rivaling anime and manga? Whether the Japanese people would accept the designation of cultural treasure by popular vote is really pretty irrelevant...

As for ESRB & keeping smut away from kids:

SkyWyvern said:
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that before government regulation kicks in, the anime industry itself lacks self regulation. When you go to the doujinshi stands in comiket, not one person asks you for your ID. When you go to convenient store, the shelf for adult magazines are right next to JUMP. Just because some anime is aired at midnight doesn't mean they are inaccessible to kids. I forgot who said this earlier in a comment, it is indeed infuriating that the politicians are putting their hands on animes and mangas when they are basically outsiders. But the best way to keep the government out of this is to make sure they can't find excuses to interfere. Some things are rated 18+ or mature for a good reason, and if you keep selling them to underaged audience, well what do you expect? We saw the train wreck coming from a mile away, really, we did. But the DVD/BD sales are good. They removed the mosaic, which makes them worth buying. Thus encouraging them to make more risque materials and hope for better DVD sales. And when the train wreck actually hits, this is all I have to say: "see, I told you it's coming."


That was me, thank you! As for your point about accessibility, what you just described is not an accurate representation of how things really work in Japan. There are laws that protect children, and there is enforcement. Dan Kanemitsu talks about how the industry self-regulates in his new article: How Bill 156 Got Passed. The kinds of stuff Governor Ishihara and the bill's supporters have said publically the bill is designed to protect people from, such as rape and child molestation, largely do no exist in all ages publications, and Bill 156 does not regulate hentai.

I half agree with your point about Yosuga no Sora, which is pretty extreme showing incestuous sex right on television. But Queen's Blade? Even Seikon no Qwaser? Unless you want to puritanize Japanese society like Americans have been, where boobies are explicit content and minors under the age of consent are ironically expected to be totally ignorant of sexuality, that's craziness. Remember, this is coming from a society that still does open-air public baths, and have traditionally taken a more liberal view of sex and sexuality than many of us have been expected to adhere to in the West.
 
12-30-10, 10:16 AM

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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 342
Sabinlerose said:
SoraKuro said:
Sabinlerose said:

I would argue that Anime and Manga is to the Japanese people nothing like how western Otakus have "saintified" it.

The grass always looks green from the other side.
I'm pretty sure very few Japanese people would call anime and manga "national treasures."

Would you as an American call Avatar (2010 movie), Twilight, 7-11, or David Hasselhoff national treasures of America? They are all huge across the worst mostly in Europe or Japan.
Granted thats not exactly a remotely fair comparison. But you see where I come from surely.


I'm sorry? I don't live in "America" and I hate all those you mentioned. Doesn't "America" have better things to be known for? All those "elements" you mentioned hold no meaning to me. I'd say Oprah, Obama, Coco (lol), Titanic, Gone With The Wind, etc...

Anime and Manga represent Japan. If they weren't proud of it, why would they put up anime posters and giant statues all over the country?
By the way, I made a study for my class last year about which symbols represent each country. Guess what, Japan was most known for their "sushi/raw fish, kimono and those weird drawings with big eyes". Of course, it was only a small study, but we inquired more than 100 people >_>

Curious, what were the ages of said people?

But yes. You further expanded on what I meant. All the things you mentioned are probably larger and bigger then what I said. Yet they aren't exactly national treasures as they? With perhaps the exception of Obama...but again 50% of the country would disagree with that. -laughs-
I don't think anyone would say Hollywood is Americas national treasure. Even when we do all the same sorts of things Japan does for its anime.



18-30. We were going to ask older and younger people, but then it would be too much data X_X

I didn't say they were a "National Treasure", I said those elements represent the USA like Anime&Manga represent Japan.
National Treasure or not, it's an important part of the country and they are aware of it.
 
12-31-10, 11:05 AM

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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1614
case649 said:
Sabinlerose said:
Nor do I think anime and manga are national treasures. xD


For the record, there's a bit of semantic apples-and-oranges going on here. "National treasure" is the choice of words you keep using, I didn't use that phrase. You misunderstand me completely if you think I'm saying anime is a national treasure of the Japanese people equivalent to the Statue of Liberty, Stone Henge or the Eiffel Tower.

What anime IS, and I'm speechless to think anyone on this site would argue, is a cultural treasure in more of an art history sense: In an age when a lot of artforms are struggling to capture people's attention, anime has been thriving and drawing in more and more fans in spite of economic recessions and technological change and everything else! It's a completely global phenomenon as anyone who's spent more than 10 minutes on MAL is well aware, it's inspired imitators left, right and center, and it's spread Japanese culture and aesthetic concepts far and wide in ways that nothing else I can think of can really rival. Again, ask yourself, what other Japanese cultural export even comes close to rivaling anime and manga? Whether the Japanese people would accept the designation of cultural treasure by popular vote is really pretty irrelevant...

As for ESRB & keeping smut away from kids:

SkyWyvern said:
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that before government regulation kicks in, the anime industry itself lacks self regulation. When you go to the doujinshi stands in comiket, not one person asks you for your ID. When you go to convenient store, the shelf for adult magazines are right next to JUMP. Just because some anime is aired at midnight doesn't mean they are inaccessible to kids. I forgot who said this earlier in a comment, it is indeed infuriating that the politicians are putting their hands on animes and mangas when they are basically outsiders. But the best way to keep the government out of this is to make sure they can't find excuses to interfere. Some things are rated 18+ or mature for a good reason, and if you keep selling them to underaged audience, well what do you expect? We saw the train wreck coming from a mile away, really, we did. But the DVD/BD sales are good. They removed the mosaic, which makes them worth buying. Thus encouraging them to make more risque materials and hope for better DVD sales. And when the train wreck actually hits, this is all I have to say: "see, I told you it's coming."


That was me, thank you! As for your point about accessibility, what you just described is not an accurate representation of how things really work in Japan. There are laws that protect children, and there is enforcement. Dan Kanemitsu talks about how the industry self-regulates in his new article: How Bill 156 Got Passed. The kinds of stuff Governor Ishihara and the bill's supporters have said publically the bill is designed to protect people from, such as rape and child molestation, largely do no exist in all ages publications, and Bill 156 does not regulate hentai.

I half agree with your point about Yosuga no Sora, which is pretty extreme showing incestuous sex right on television. But Queen's Blade? Even Seikon no Qwaser? Unless you want to puritanize Japanese society like Americans have been, where boobies are explicit content and minors under the age of consent are ironically expected to be totally ignorant of sexuality, that's craziness. Remember, this is coming from a society that still does open-air public baths, and have traditionally taken a more liberal view of sex and sexuality than many of us have been expected to adhere to in the West.

I would like to apologize.
I looked back, and I see you didn't use the word National Treasure.
Why I thought that....I'm not sure. I read it over a few times before posting...And could have sworn you used that phrase....-gonk-
But I did make that mistake, and I apologize.

A cultural treasure and a national treasure...You are correct. Those are two very very different things.
I was basing my opinion and my counter argument against something that you weren't even talking about.....-laughs-
No wonder I was looking a tad foolish.

SoraKuro said:
Sabinlerose said:
SoraKuro said:
Sabinlerose said:

I would argue that Anime and Manga is to the Japanese people nothing like how western Otakus have "saintified" it.

The grass always looks green from the other side.
I'm pretty sure very few Japanese people would call anime and manga "national treasures."

Would you as an American call Avatar (2010 movie), Twilight, 7-11, or David Hasselhoff national treasures of America? They are all huge across the worst mostly in Europe or Japan.
Granted thats not exactly a remotely fair comparison. But you see where I come from surely.


I'm sorry? I don't live in "America" and I hate all those you mentioned. Doesn't "America" have better things to be known for? All those "elements" you mentioned hold no meaning to me. I'd say Oprah, Obama, Coco (lol), Titanic, Gone With The Wind, etc...

Anime and Manga represent Japan. If they weren't proud of it, why would they put up anime posters and giant statues all over the country?
By the way, I made a study for my class last year about which symbols represent each country. Guess what, Japan was most known for their "sushi/raw fish, kimono and those weird drawings with big eyes". Of course, it was only a small study, but we inquired more than 100 people >_>

Curious, what were the ages of said people?

But yes. You further expanded on what I meant. All the things you mentioned are probably larger and bigger then what I said. Yet they aren't exactly national treasures as they? With perhaps the exception of Obama...but again 50% of the country would disagree with that. -laughs-
I don't think anyone would say Hollywood is Americas national treasure. Even when we do all the same sorts of things Japan does for its anime.



18-30. We were going to ask older and younger people, but then it would be too much data X_X

I didn't say they were a "National Treasure", I said those elements represent the USA like Anime&Manga represent Japan.
National Treasure or not, it's an important part of the country and they are aware of it.

An apology to you too.
I was going off something that was.... completely incorrect and a misunderstanding.
 
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