Saint Seiya Omega To Be Continued in Spring

Here we have how the new clothes designs look like, quite an improvement, feedback form SS fans have been quite positive at the moment:

KOGA NEW CLOTH DESIGN:





SOMA NEW CLOTH DESIGN:




YUNA NEW CLOTH DESIGN:



RYUHO NEW CLOTH DESIGN:



EDEN NEW CLOTH DESIGN:



HARUTO NEW CLOTH DESIGN:



SUBARU CLOTH DESIGN:




PALAS :





TITAN: ---> Totally looks like GEMINI SAGA!!!

More info revealed, and first piece of artwork out:








http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-03-08/saint-seiya-omega-new-arc-staff-cast-revealed

1.) I am happy. I wouldn't mind more. The animation needs to get better.

2.) As for new cloth designs, I remember seeing something interesting on twitter. It was like a photo from an art book (I presume) and Koga and the others wore cloths that were like two pieces. Pretty cool.

^ I don't think it will be a good idea if they put two same shows ''same title' in the same season! This is why everyone says they want LC instead of omega. knowing they are from a different studio.

Oh if you try to understand, you will new it's not the same studio.
And you can have Omega and Lost Canvas in same time...
Really, theses guys ...

I agree with you! lost canvas is way better than omega. I hope they will not add more for omega and consider finishing lost canvas

I wonder how you can so certain about Saint Seiya is your home turf. You said you have first hand experience in seeing Saint Seiya being big in Europe, LA region, and Asia mainly China, do you want to share what your "first hand experience" is in those continents and regions?

Of course I know it is big in the 80s and 90s. I already said Saint Seiya WAS big outside Japan as well as in Japan, didn't I? But I asked for its popularity NOW because we are talking about Saint Seiya Omega's success in this thread, right? From my experience of traveling around China and checking anime and its related merchandise there I did not see much evidence of Saint Seiya being so big there. To be honest, even in that flagship store in Shanghai in your link I did not quite notice Saint Seiya T-Shirts. Of course I can see there is a possibility of its being out of stock and I may have even missed them, but my observation so far in China is that its popularity is not quite the same as, say Ghibli, Doraemon, Pokemon, Crayon-Shinchan, Conan and a bunch of other franchises.

I did not ask for sales data in Latin America and Europe, but you need to tell us why you think Saint Seiya Omega was made not for Japan at all but for overseas market and why you were so sure that SS Omega provided much overseas income for Toei that they made the decision for the new series to cater for overseas market.

We know that a lot of anime is popular outside Japan but do not generate much revenue. We also know that overseas revenue is commonly understood to contribute a very small part for total revenue for anime and so anime are made for Japan and the domestic market. You are claiming that SS Omega is an unique exception in breaking all these common understandings. Now what I am asking is you should tell us why this is so. Just saying that it is popular does not really cut it. Your claim requires some proofs that it is financially meaningful for Toei to make SS Omega with an aim to sell big in overseas market.

Thanks for the information. At least we know that compared to other manga being sold in France and Italy, Saint Seiya fared well at least during the second half of 2010s. How this gets to any conclusion that this influenced Toei's decision to make new Saint Seiya anime is not clear though.

I guess if you cannot answer my question with how you deduce the link between overseas popularity with the decision to make Saint Seiya Omega anime, then just admit it and be done with it. It is a natural question to ask for further information when you make such claim, and if you cannot establish the link then reverting to say you doubt the knowledge of the questioner about things "so evidently clear" to you is not going to help you get more convincing.

I wish I could share your sanguinity when it comes to overseas demand or influence for decision made in anime industry in Japan, but so far I have not seen any evidence to suggest this has happened or is going to happen. The article you quoted above is more like a sincere hope rather than established casuality just because a Saint Seiya anime was made after this article was written.
I am curious about this news about extension of SS Omega anime and as I said in my very first post in this thread, I am sure there is a reason for it. I even admitted that it could be some success in aspects other than TV ratings or anime sales that allowed Toei to keep this franchise going, although it is always possible that these days studios are looking for old franchises that are ripe for some reboot project, and SS is just one of them. The main objection I have with your line of argument is how you conclude exclusively that Saint Seiya Omega is made only for overseas market and not for Japan. I would think more likely that there are domestic revenue streams that we are not so familiar generated by SS, instead of a claim that a very big portion of the revenues generated by SS come from overseas. On top of it, your claim that SS was (and is) more popular than Ghibli hardly helps you get more convincing (on the contrary I'd say).

Yeah, the rating is ok for 6:30am slot. Low but expected, as I said. I did not say it flopped on TV rating, remember.

Even if you had not ranted about moe and fanservice unnecessarily in your first post in this thread, I would have still questioned your claim anyway. I would have just cut out the first part of my reply post. Nothing personal.

It is too bad that you are claiming yourself to be very knowledgeable but after so many posts still cannot show that how you establish the fact that SS Omega was made mainly for overseas market, and overseas demand is the reason why we have SS Omega. You need to provide some real data about it, which as you said you are very knowledgeable about.

@ symbv

I went along with you for long, and you are still this obstinate, use your decades knowledge of the industry to analyze the data at hand or around the net to see how I came to the conclusion overseas market is the home turf for Saint Seiya franchise, which of course includes omega in a good level at the least.

Whats with this mmm... "evident"questions?

I will leave it to you to imagine how I know it first hand. Its evident why, you do not even need to ask.

LA is the region evidently, where it is popular, not in the whole continent (America).

So you want to question even its popularity in China, seriously? As I doubt you are even fan of it, so I doubt you looked hard enough, it was hugely popular in China in the 90s, not for nothing the online game its for that market.

Oh yea, your evidence:

http://www.preternaturalpost.com/2011/saint-seiya-returns-to-china-in-a-new-online-game/

http://corp.toei-anim.co.jp/english/press/2011/04/saint_seiya_apparel_licensing.html

"The TV series “Saint Seiya” was a popular Toei Animation title broadcasted from 1986 on the TV Asahi network. Saint Seiya has also been very popular in China, and has been shown repeatedly since it was first broadcast in 1991. "

So yea, not strange thou, its older anime you are talking about, I myself was disappointed first time I went to Akihabara only to find I never come across any older anime goodies, not dvds, not figurines, not manga either, not for that I will go and question the popularity of them.

I only found some olde anime merchandise in Nakano Broadway, many second hand thou.

So you go as far as asking for sale data in Latin America and Europe? Goodness, there none that I know of, but its evidence enough that countires on those areas have continued to license more Saint Seiya for their markets, if it didn't sell and generated profits corps would not even bother. Common sense and knowledge no?

While I dont think theres much data from foreign market, theres some pieces of it about the sales of episode g manga in France and Italy:

""The manga was well received in France, where volumes 7, 8 and 9 sold thirty-one thousand copies each in 2006.[36] Sales in Italy were equally successful, having been featured on multiple occasions in Planet Manga's Top 10 sales charts between June 2005 and February 2010."""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Seiya_Episode.G




Still with this, sigh, give it up because its common knowledge Saint Seiya franchise bigger followers and popularity comes form overseas. With your statements one can easily doubt you have as much knowledge of the industry as you claim, at the very least you just prove again you dont know much about SS, as you could have about other certain kind of series.

For its popularity overseas and how you question that overseas interest did not motivated the revival of SS (NOT Japanese interest) check out the next and look it up, what other anime fans say and what other sites analysis take on this is, again, for SS franchise this is common knowledge that does not need any official statemtns or data at all.

Here what other fans think as well, its not me alone, "claiming" it, this blog article speask of beet but mentions St Seiya a little:

http://www.animenation.net/blog/2011/02/08/ask-john-will-beet-the-vandel-buster-make-a-comeback/

"....But Bouken Ou Beet isn’t that tremendously popular. If the franchise had a tremendously loyal fan following and sporadically saw new manga, in spin-off or sequel series, at least, it could get revived as St. Seiya did. But, once again, Bouken Ou Beet isn’t in the same situation as St. Seiya. If Japanese demand for an anime revival wasn’t adequate alone, international demand could contribute motivation for a revival. However, unlike St. Seiya, for example, Bouken Ou Beet doesn’t have a large cult following outside of Japan..."

Did you not know that in select cases overseas demand can actually motivate anime creation in Japan, its very rare, but it happens.

I dont understand anymore your point sincerely, first you say its no big deal in Japan, one agrees with you and kindly inform you its because its followers are overseas fans -mainly-, you further disagree with its popularity overseas looking down on it, sigh, so what it is, the revival of Saint Seiya for around 10 years its just for the hell of it? Omega being extended just for the hell of it? Because its so bad -the franchise- and unpopular everywhere that in consequence it gets more anime, more manga, ps2 and s3 release, 3D cg movie, upcoming online game right...sigh.

I cannot show you irrefutable evidence that omega main target is not japan, it only comes form looking at data and the franchise situation, but at the least its motivated in a good deal by overseas support, since Japanese interest in not big enough, but on second thought maybe I am wrong and Omega did try to draw in Japanese fans and it actually succeeded a bit, which regardless plays in my favor as the huge SS fan I am.

You further question Omega ratings, they were 1.4 to 2.6, form normal to good for 6:30 am, better than Diginom, Thats fact, low, compared to prime time and other morning shows but that the kind of slot it got and did good, even if you dont wanna accept, sorry, but the anime did not flop, if not for the the ratings or anime itself for whatever else if you wish but fact remain in was successful in one way or another.

Im stopping here, I feel your issue is more personal, to get back at me for my moe perspective than SS itself, since this comment is what prompted your quick reaction.

Too bad I am very knowledgeable about SS franchise and knew the data to make some of my guesses/claims as I showed you, your comments questioning everything about SS shows you are not and did not knew any real data about it as you usually do other kind of series.


But it was good not to argue about our "usual topic" symbv :) That was good.

True, but if you are claiming that SS Omega was made not for Japan, then isn't natural to ask why this particular title is alone in making most of the money overseas than the paltry portion that other anime is making? At the end, you still need to explain why you think SS Omega is made only with overseas market in mind.

May I ask how you know FIRST HAND how big it is in Europe, LA (is it a continent like Europe and Asia?) and Asia? Just popping in some internet forums and see some fans hyping about the shows from Europe or Asia does not prove that the show is making good money in those places. I have traveled into a few big cities in China myself, Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen etc, and I can find quite a lot of anime related goods (legal or not) in shops for kids and youngsters, but frankly I do not see much of Saint Seiya stuff there. There are some but I won't call it "big".

My point, at the end, is the same: Back up your claim that Saint Seiya Omega is made not for Japan at all but for only overseas market in mind. To me it is a straw that you are clutching but fails to provide the flesh of evidence to back it up.

What is the proof of attention? TV rating (low as expected in 6:30am time slot), Merchandising (do not see any coming, not finding much item on sale in toy shops), Advertisement (little), Online interest (little content or discussion in forum or blog -- you said it is the opposite in overseas forum, right? )

If it is a general fact that overseas revenue is tiny and you are saying that Saint Seiya is such an exception that a studio would go so far as to make a series that is not for Japan but for only overseas market, then it is only natural to ask you explain why it is the case. That does not need any of theory from my side. All it needs is you present some data that Saint Seiya is such an exception in terms of overseas revenue.

Did I ever say I refute the data? Those data are good for me. It is just how you draw conclusion from it which is questionable.

@ symbv

Oh, but it I dont see any brakes down to overseas vs local comparison by franchises to have a better idea, otherwise its merely claims by analisis (by you - makes it sound like there cannot be exceptions)

So you are doing the same as me. No, I at least Knew the report Toei generously released and then bases my claim on SS, and because I know first hand how big it is in Eruope and LA and Asia, mainly China.

But yea, noone was arguing overseas market is important, I clearly said overseas almost never matter but in case of SS it does, of course., a claim if you wish, I have to official statement form toei to show you as evidence.

SO whats the argument then? You are holding at straws, since the point was SS, and clearly showed you the number of sales it generates for toei in an estimate, as we dont have actual data for Omega. But no better evidence that your claim that in Japan it did not get much attention (evidence please: lol ) so where could it be doing enough to guarantee more....mmm... when you know the history of the franchise and look at the data you have available you can simply estimate the most likely reasons.

If your issue is that I said not made for Japan, I should have stated it merely was probable or likely but well, I think its not that far form the truth, a series that does not have big following locally but has enough fanbase overseas and with good profits...

Its possible I was wrong too, considering ratings were good, maybe this further motivated the extension of the anime..., again, the reasons I dont know, only Toei executives would know them.

So point is you dont agree with my claim, but you can not prove either the concrete reasons for it, and not even dare throw in some theories of your own!

Also it seems you never have room for flexibility and dont believe in the exception to the rule! Those report are in GENERAL, or are you saying all those reports fit all series and compnaies....evidently they dont, overseas income is tiny looking at the whole picture but it does not apply for all anime and studios.

In the case of toei, you have there the "tiny" amount overseas market represents for it.

I think this ends this discussion in the case of toei and SS, unless you wanna continue to refute the data the company released itself.

There are many reports and studies about how little foreign markets mean to anime industry in Japan. A recent example is a seminar held by industry people in Anime Business Forum held last month: http://www.animate.tv/news/details.php?id=1359774050&p=1
One piece of data that stands out is the estimate for foreign income for anime amounts to less than 1.5% of its total revenue, and even if taken generously with streams from related items like merchandise taken, it is unlikely to go over 3%.

Well, you have made a big claim saying that SS Omega is not made for Japan at all, right? This seems to go against what those anime industry people are saying, so it is natural for me to ask for evidence that supports your claim.

It is not obsession. If there is any obsession, it is your obsession of calling Saint Seiya as "global product" or "global franchise". If you want to argue the case of Saint Seiya making a lot of money in overseas for Toei, then it is just natural to compare its performance in overseas market with other "global franchise" around, no?

You are making another claim that SS has higher level of popularity than Ghibli in the past and in the present. I do not see why you are so certain about it?
Also, precisely because I did not want to compare movies with TV series only, so I mentioned Doraemon as well.


Well, I have followed anime industry for the last few decades (and actively so in the last 15 years or so). I do not claim to be all-knowing and I am prepared to be proved wrong if I am presented with convincing data and evidence, but if you just make a wild claim based only on what you perceive or just some hearsay or hasty conclusion, and that goes against what hard facts are showing, then I would need more than just the claims to be convinced. That's it.

@ symbv

Theres your evidence, that show you how so very tiny overseas income for Toei is, as tiny as 30-40% of local income according to the data in that report.

I like to see your claims as well with reports like the one I direct you to, to see with cold numbers from direct sources how tiny the income for other studios franchises in overseas markets are. Yet, unlike you, I have no problem in believing what you said as even when you are merely claiming it to be that way, its merely common sense and its evident its true for a majority of studios, otherwise we would see different tendencies and outcomes in the industry.

Guess its something as person as knowledgeable as you claim yourself to be knows.

You also make lost of statements based merely on claims and perception but unlike you not many go asking for you officials report and evidence to back them as we know many studios are so closed to share its data.

Since you are so obsessed with comparing Saint Seiya to doraemon, dorameon its not that big to begin overseas, in this case it is in Japan but not that much outside, for your evidence merely see in how many countries Dorameon is licensed and see SS, also since you seem to dont know LA and Euriope fanbases, guess you wont be able to tell the level of popularity the orignal SS had there, almost DBZ levels back then of course, for your evidence you need to ask those fans and hear how hot it was and how anyone wanted cloths merchandise, I know as I saw first hand the level of popularity. Sales data I doubt its available.

Gihibli, yes, its more big in Japan and then US thou, bu yea, the movies are licensed in few more countries that SS, 3 or 4 more depending the movie, yet none had the level of popularity SS had and still has. Plus you cannot quite well comprare movies with tv series.



Interesting. Now I know why you write in such a way that whatever you post is irrefutable truth, never are wrong or concede a minimum when perspectives and opinions are contrary to your own, if contrary they are always a misconception and a product of our lack of knowledge of the industry.

If you are making claim that I find improbable or go against my understanding of the anime industry over decades, I do not think I am asking too much to ask for some backup data or evidence for your claim.

Well, so we don't know how much foreign income is derived from the SS franchise then?

I don't see how pointless comparison it is when you use the term "global franchise" to describe SS. Ghibli is a typically viewed as a global franchise as far as anime is concerned, isn't it? Remember I do not object to your saying that SS is global. In fact precisely because you call it global, I would like to compare its overseas contribution to the bottom line compared to other global products like Ghibli or Doraemon.

Note that I never dispute that. But if you go as far as claiming that SS Omega is made not for Japan but only with overseas market in mind, I think some good supportive evidence is called for.

"Self-evident" evidence is just a claim. Nothing more. As I said, I also see Doraemon and Ghibli are successful in many countries around the world but they still do not contribute more than a tiny portion of revenue to the franchise as a whole. What makes SS Omega so special, so much so that, according to you, it is made not with Japan in mind at all?

@symbv The evidence game again, same you use in all arguments, I am not playing ---much, I dont care that bad to convince you.


There is "evidence" of ratings @ ann/animesuki/crunchy rating threads.

Foreign income, Toei released a report by top franchises in 2011 only a far as I can remeber. But yea, no one saying foreign income beats local, I already made clear my point of view so not repeating the same again.

Don't bring it pointless comparison like Ghibli so you can try to "win" so bad an argument and look down on SS, we are talking elusively Toei franchises. No matter how you can see it Saint Seiya is a global product when its has strong presence via manga, games, merchindise, anime, in Latin America, Europe and Asia and its successful to boot.

Also dont put words in my mouth, I said, its one of toei top franchises in foreign lands, I did not say it was the best franchise in the industry. To be specific according to the toei 2011 report, SS its not in their top locally (Japan) but its third below Dragon Ball and One Piece (in that order) in overseas sales, still only a portion of titans like DB/OP, small, but enough to be of its best selling series outside Japan even if tiny in local market sales...but not my much actually.

Ok, you win have your way:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-10-29/toei-animation-breaks-down-2011-earnings-by-franchise

Local income vs overseas for Toei is only that big by the sheer sales of One Piece in Japan, take that monster out and you see its notthe overseas market for toei its not that tiny, so in 2011, in those quarters, the local top series licensing deals generated 100 million for toei, 45 million by One Piece alone! And overseas licensing and other sales generated between 30-39 million...tiny?

SS itself generated only 1.4 - 2 million for toei (tiny if you wish), in that quarter!, for local comparison, Toriko was merely at 1.90 million in Japan and Digimon was @ mere 1.40 million...

See Digimon sales data and its easy to see why SS replaced it and that more projects keep coming its only irrefutable evidence of how good the franchise could be for toei. But no, no data for 2012/2013, guess it means you are right no?

NOTE: Mind you. be objective and see 2011 SS was not an active franchise for Toei and overseas income was that good (or bad if you so wish), riding merely on the Hades Ovas interest that finished in 2008.

Look forward 2012-2013 and who knows, you can only take that data toei shared for some reason and guess whats happening now with SS being active.


In short, dont think all studios are in the same boat as those like kyonai (that you probbaly love), jc staff,A-1, madhouse, etc, that depend almost 100% on local sales, overseas income could be tiny or non-existen for them but not for all, specially something as big as Toei.


I stand by what I said, your statements seem you are not familiar enough with SS, the franchise to be specific. If you were you would knew its successful in many countries around the world and not ask me for "evidence".

You would new about its ratings and could have easily mentioned them (like I did) even if to say they were bad.

If you were you would knew this was about a new anime arc instead of warning about not talking about a new anime season because it was apparently not clear for you it was a new season, glad to see the evidence pointing to the new anime arc/new season, --which was news days before it actually hit here,--- was enough evidence in this particular case for you.

The reboot, well, Saint Seiya Omega hardly fits the word at all, the reboot happened with Overture and Hades Ovas.

I read Saint Seiya and watched the anime when it first came out in 1985/6. I am not sure how you could tell I am not familiar with Saint Seiya from what I said in this thread. But if you want to talk about SS reboot like Omega, I am all ears to hear some evidence that it is doing great outside Japan. Please enlighten me with evidence not just statement.

Widely accepted? Show me your evidence please.

Evidence not just statement please.

As I said already, if SS Omega is getting further push and the decision was based on the performance of the current season (not some prior decision made before Omega was aired), it must be because of something other than anime sales. Also as I said, so far we know foreign income forms a tiny part of revenue stream for anime production (and its sponsor) and this is true for genuine global franchise like Ghibli or kids anime like Doraemon. If SS Omega is doing even better than Ghibli or Doraemon, I would like to see some supporting evidence.

No problem.
You can continue to hate. :p
I really love Saint Seiya Omega (and LC too despite i "hate" the end of the manga ... feel too rushed for me) and a good new : Manga for SSO !

Are you familiar with Saint Seiya? From your words I conclude that you are not.

It was big then in japan yes, but it quickly lost steam, which canceled the anime and manga, it was only a decade ago that the series in all forms completely revived, and while evidently Toei did and wont state its reasons, it was widely accepted that the desire of more Saint Seiya form Latin America and Europe is sure to have influenced it.

As for the anime itself, I will repeat myself then, viewership was good for Omega.

I get the feeling the "attention" you refer to, is like the one certain late night anime gets on the likes o 2ch, etc. Or of the big popular series. SS currently does not fall in either, if you want reaction and attention go check LA and European forums, it indeed wont happen in Japan. So yes, SS (not only omega) its not that big in Japan currently, which further support what I am saying, western interest in SS is very good, theres small bits of data on the net telling you Toei top franchises in local and foreign markets, this last one small compared with Toei local licensing and merchandise income, you are right in that front, no doubt.



anime sales? meaning? DVD/BD? I think you know well that matter only for late night anime. Anime sales via outside licensing is another issue thou, Omega has been licensed by several countries by now. Thankfully SS is basically a global franchise unlike most series that only get licensed in one single-very niche market: US.

Also:

"The ongoing Saint Seiya Omega television anime series will spawn its own manga adaptation in the May issue of Kadokawa Shoten's Kerokero Ace magazine on March 26. The manga will cover the anime's new arc that is set to premiere this April.

The arc debuting in April will introduce new heroes who fight alongside the main character Kōga, as well as new enemies. Subaru is a Steel Cloth-wearing 12-year-old who encounters Kōga and the others. He is a hot-blooded boy prone to causing trouble and starting fights.

Pallas is a goddess with a deep past with Athena — dating back to the Age of Myth — as well as a strong hatred. Titan serves as the cold-blooded but loyal attendant of Pallas. Pallas commands Parasites, an army of warriors equipped with "Chronotector" and the ability to manipulate time. Similar to the Bronze, Silver, and Gold Saints, the Parasites have Third, Second, and First Class ranks.

In addition to the new characters, Kōga and the returning characters will have revised Cloth designs, new powers, and new abilities. "

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-02-25/saint-seiya-omega-anime-gets-its-own-manga-new-characters

Mmmm...not sure what to made of this, the story does not sound convincing...so no Asgard and no Poseidon... well, at least lets hope the cloth redesign does not disappoint...not much at least this time around, which is one of the core disappointments with Omega.



That would me more desirable, Lost Canvas is by TMS, so who knows if they plan on continuing it, second half of LC is epic.

Objectively speaking LC is way better than the original (story and technicalities wise, nothing beats SS memorable characters, passion and soul), Teshirogi did a magnificent job. Cannot help to think Kurumada seeing how well crafted LC was decided to quickly let us know it was not cannon, :) And that the true sequel/prequel was Next Dimension.

But good that Kurumada does not seem to fear others doing better than himself when it comes to SS, just like he is letting other author do Episode G. As other pointed I too think Kurumada ideas tend to be somewhat repetitive.