| Personally, for me, it's a matter of consistency. When I go into a show and it has a artstyle and animation that I love, and then a new season comes out, and suddenly the art and animation feel very different, it's off putting. No matter how "good" it may be, it's just not what I fell in love with in the first place. It's kind of like ep 10 of Heavenly Delusion this year, in isolation, its a beautifully animated episode, but I skip it on rewatches, because it just feels out of place with the rest of the show, And I loved the way the rest of the show was drawn and animated. (and thankfully plot wise its completely skippable, you can go straight from ep 9 to 11 without realizing you missed anything) Lmao, who told you that? Clearly some is trying to mess with you. |
Jackson1333Dec 11, 2023 11:08 PM
Reply to Jackson1333
Personally, for me, it's a matter of consistency. When I go into a show and it has a artstyle and animation that I love, and then a new season comes out, and suddenly the art and animation feel very different, it's off putting. No matter how "good" it may be, it's just not what I fell in love with in the first place.
It's kind of like ep 10 of Heavenly Delusion this year, in isolation, its a beautifully animated episode, but I skip it on rewatches, because it just feels out of place with the rest of the show, And I loved the way the rest of the show was drawn and animated. (and thankfully plot wise its completely skippable, you can go straight from ep 9 to 11 without realizing you missed anything)
Lmao, who told you that? Clearly some is trying to mess with you.
It's kind of like ep 10 of Heavenly Delusion this year, in isolation, its a beautifully animated episode, but I skip it on rewatches, because it just feels out of place with the rest of the show, And I loved the way the rest of the show was drawn and animated. (and thankfully plot wise its completely skippable, you can go straight from ep 9 to 11 without realizing you missed anything)
Lmao, who told you that? Clearly some is trying to mess with you.
Jackson1333 said: Lmao, who told you that? Clearly some is trying to mess with you. It's like in every god damn youtube thumbnail and when I search jujustu kasien at one point to look up a clip, in filled up to Although that said, I also know that people aren't 100% sure about, but I have no idea what that means yet. I'll see next week. Jackson1333 said: Personally, for me, it's a matter of consistency. When I go into a show and it has a artstyle and animation that I love, and then a new season comes out, and suddenly the art and animation feel very different, it's off putting. No matter how "good" it may be, it's just not what I fell in love with in the first place. It's kind of like ep 10 of Heavenly Delusion this year, in isolation, its a beautifully animated episode, but I skip it on rewatches, because it just feels out of place with the rest of the show, and I loved the way the rest of the show was drawn and animated. That's understandable. Personally I loved both this and episode 10 of heavenly.... For me change can be both bad and good. The fact that it "changed" isn't a negative on it's ow for me, unless it's so major that the show looks completely different. |
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TRC_Randy said: rewatched it.lemme just rewatch ep 5 for a moment.. APolygons2 said: true but not execution-wise tho. That was my complaint. Perhaps that's what those guys meant when they called ep 17 animation bad but misput it. Idk.The episode I am talking about is almost identical to mob psycho s2 ep5 in terms of visuals and scale. |
Reply to TRC_Randy
TRC_Randy said:
lemme just rewatch ep 5 for a moment..
rewatched it.lemme just rewatch ep 5 for a moment..
APolygons2 said:
The episode I am talking about is almost identical to mob psycho s2 ep5 in terms of visuals and scale.
true but not execution-wise tho. That was my complaint. Perhaps that's what those guys meant when they called ep 17 animation bad but misput it. Idk.The episode I am talking about is almost identical to mob psycho s2 ep5 in terms of visuals and scale.
TRC_Randy said: true but not execution-wise tho. can you point out specific scenes from both to say how the execution is better? |
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Reply to MackyandCheese
Cgi man sucks I hope they reduce cgi on chainsaw man next season
| @MackyandCheese It barely had any to begin with. |
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Reply to APolygons2
TRC_Randy said:
true but not execution-wise tho.
true but not execution-wise tho.
can you point out specific scenes from both to say how the execution is better?
| @APolygons2 oof gotta rewatch jjk ep 17 then but for starters, from what i remember take a look at when they were fighting. Mob Psycho ep 5 is more fluid in terms of "cameraworks"; one in transition (scene-to-scene cuts, panning left-right/vice versa, zooming in/out, viewing closed up/further away etc) where it's smoother and less shaky, and the other in clarity as in it knows when to stop moving and for how long, to show the scene panoramically. I don't remember jjk ep 17 having these or at least at the same level. |
Reply to APolygons2
@SunBro26 I don't know what's the worse:
1. The fact that you think having seen older anime means you understand animation better
2. or the fact that you went through profile to count how many older anime I have seen, and the fact that I counted it too to confirm it
I am not claiming to be an expert. but I definitely no more than your average person. And I DEFINITELY know more than the less than inteligence people I was talking about in this thread.
Now stop being a dick and instead,
maybe suggest me your favourited superbly well animated/directed older anime.
I was thinking of watching space dandy for my next animation itch, but I'm not against some cell animation goodness.
1. The fact that you think having seen older anime means you understand animation better
2. or the fact that you went through profile to count how many older anime I have seen, and the fact that I counted it too to confirm it
I am not claiming to be an expert. but I definitely no more than your average person. And I DEFINITELY know more than the less than inteligence people I was talking about in this thread.
Now stop being a dick and instead,
maybe suggest me your favourited superbly well animated/directed older anime.
I was thinking of watching space dandy for my next animation itch, but I'm not against some cell animation goodness.
| @APolygons2 You've bitten the bait with a surprisingly chill reaction, so I'm gonna bother actually typing something for you as thanks. 1. I think it does matter because in my experience with anime (which is admittedly still less than some other people's but also more than what most have), the best animation I've found was in random movies, OVAs and anthology series released in the 90s and 00s for the most part. Now, most of those anime aren't exactly fantastic. I myself didn't like a lot of them overall cause the trend for the 90s in particular for OVAs and movies was just pulp-y science fantasy stuff that I can never get into, but regardless of my gripes with the writing, I'll always praise the art and animation of those eras as being the best I've ever come across. And sure, preference plays the paramount role in this, but regardless I'd say I just prefer on-model movement and fluidity (high frame count and long cuts) over like, the flashiest visual effects possible (even though yeah I do love Ufotable stuff cause they can actually do the former well too). I watched a cut from one of the recent JJK S2 episodes (Idr which one) and it just didn't blow me away even though my friend was really hoping it would. The camerawork and movement just feels half-cooked in so many ways. It's all composed of really short cuts with little to no in-betweening and that just strikes me as an attempt to dodge the actual tough task of not just making an A to Z movement, but filling the letters in between too. Either way, good enough but didn't blow my mind. But yeah tangents aside I do think there's been a massive shift away from the style I truly love in anime over the past 10-15 years and I still vastly prefer what it used to be over what it's becoming. 2. That means we're both concerningly stocked up on free time and/or mental issues. 3. Superbly directed/animated stuff. I'm going off of random memory here and throwing names - but uhh, both the Patlabor and the GITS movies, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, the original Terra e... film and Five Star Stories (thinking of obscure stuff), The Animatrix and Genius Party as far as anthologies go, Children of the Sea as far as modern films are concerned, and GITS: Stand Alone Complex and Seirei no Moribito for shows. I honestly can't name that many shows cause movies and OVAs have always delivered a consistently higher level of animation quality (which yes I know more time budget blabla) so shows have never particularly impressed me on the production front, even though they still comprise most of my favorites as they tend to have an edge in writing. Also Space Dandy is great! |
Reply to TRC_Randy
@APolygons2 oof gotta rewatch jjk ep 17 then but for starters, from what i remember take a look at when they were fighting. Mob Psycho ep 5 is more fluid in terms of "cameraworks"; one in transition (scene-to-scene cuts, panning left-right/vice versa, zooming in/out, viewing closed up/further away etc) where it's smoother and less shaky, and the other in clarity as in it knows when to stop moving and for how long, to show the scene panoramically. I don't remember jjk ep 17 having these or at least at the same level.
TRC_Randy said: oof gotta rewatch jjk ep 17 then but for starters, from what i remember take a look at when they were fighting. Mob Psycho ep 5 is more fluid in terms of "cameraworks"; one in transition (scene-to-scene cuts, panning left-right/vice versa, zooming in/out, viewing closed up/further away etc) where it's smoother and less shaky, and the other in clarity as in it knows when to stop moving and for how long, to show the scene panoramically. I don't remember jjk ep 17 having these or at least at the same level. I also rewatched the action scenes in both episodes again, and the thing is, you are right, the jjk one is a lot more hectic and fast paced with it's camera work. I'll be it, mob ep 5 also has cuts like that. but the mob psycho 100 episode is some Shakey fast cuts, while the jjk one is mostly that. I don't think that is necessarily worse though, the big reason for why mob relies a lot less on fast cuts, is mob's fighting style is a lot more "grand". Like he flicks a finger and blows up a giant monster, so the camera needs to pan out and slow down to make that image clear. the scenes where mob is getting thrown around are very similar. But yeah generally, the jjk one is a lot more chaotic with it's cuts. but just like how mob had some fast paced cuts, jjk also had some slower panning cuts, specially towards the end. |
APolygons2Dec 12, 2023 1:31 AM
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| It's the people who only watch the most hyped anime of the season and all they have to complain about is that not every frame of animation is perfect. |
on Reply to SunBro26
@APolygons2 You've bitten the bait with a surprisingly chill reaction, so I'm gonna bother actually typing something for you as thanks.
1. I think it does matter because in my experience with anime (which is admittedly still less than some other people's but also more than what most have), the best animation I've found was in random movies, OVAs and anthology series released in the 90s and 00s for the most part. Now, most of those anime aren't exactly fantastic. I myself didn't like a lot of them overall cause the trend for the 90s in particular for OVAs and movies was just pulp-y science fantasy stuff that I can never get into, but regardless of my gripes with the writing, I'll always praise the art and animation of those eras as being the best I've ever come across.
And sure, preference plays the paramount role in this, but regardless I'd say I just prefer on-model movement and fluidity (high frame count and long cuts) over like, the flashiest visual effects possible (even though yeah I do love Ufotable stuff cause they can actually do the former well too). I watched a cut from one of the recent JJK S2 episodes (Idr which one) and it just didn't blow me away even though my friend was really hoping it would. The camerawork and movement just feels half-cooked in so many ways. It's all composed of really short cuts with little to no in-betweening and that just strikes me as an attempt to dodge the actual tough task of not just making an A to Z movement, but filling the letters in between too. Either way, good enough but didn't blow my mind.
But yeah tangents aside I do think there's been a massive shift away from the style I truly love in anime over the past 10-15 years and I still vastly prefer what it used to be over what it's becoming.
2. That means we're both concerningly stocked up on free time and/or mental issues.
3. Superbly directed/animated stuff. I'm going off of random memory here and throwing names - but uhh, both the Patlabor and the GITS movies, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, the original Terra e... film and Five Star Stories (thinking of obscure stuff), The Animatrix and Genius Party as far as anthologies go, Children of the Sea as far as modern films are concerned, and GITS: Stand Alone Complex and Seirei no Moribito for shows. I honestly can't name that many shows cause movies and OVAs have always delivered a consistently higher level of animation quality (which yes I know more time budget blabla) so shows have never particularly impressed me on the production front, even though they still comprise most of my favorites as they tend to have an edge in writing.
Also Space Dandy is great!
1. I think it does matter because in my experience with anime (which is admittedly still less than some other people's but also more than what most have), the best animation I've found was in random movies, OVAs and anthology series released in the 90s and 00s for the most part. Now, most of those anime aren't exactly fantastic. I myself didn't like a lot of them overall cause the trend for the 90s in particular for OVAs and movies was just pulp-y science fantasy stuff that I can never get into, but regardless of my gripes with the writing, I'll always praise the art and animation of those eras as being the best I've ever come across.
And sure, preference plays the paramount role in this, but regardless I'd say I just prefer on-model movement and fluidity (high frame count and long cuts) over like, the flashiest visual effects possible (even though yeah I do love Ufotable stuff cause they can actually do the former well too). I watched a cut from one of the recent JJK S2 episodes (Idr which one) and it just didn't blow me away even though my friend was really hoping it would. The camerawork and movement just feels half-cooked in so many ways. It's all composed of really short cuts with little to no in-betweening and that just strikes me as an attempt to dodge the actual tough task of not just making an A to Z movement, but filling the letters in between too. Either way, good enough but didn't blow my mind.
But yeah tangents aside I do think there's been a massive shift away from the style I truly love in anime over the past 10-15 years and I still vastly prefer what it used to be over what it's becoming.
2. That means we're both concerningly stocked up on free time and/or mental issues.
3. Superbly directed/animated stuff. I'm going off of random memory here and throwing names - but uhh, both the Patlabor and the GITS movies, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, the original Terra e... film and Five Star Stories (thinking of obscure stuff), The Animatrix and Genius Party as far as anthologies go, Children of the Sea as far as modern films are concerned, and GITS: Stand Alone Complex and Seirei no Moribito for shows. I honestly can't name that many shows cause movies and OVAs have always delivered a consistently higher level of animation quality (which yes I know more time budget blabla) so shows have never particularly impressed me on the production front, even though they still comprise most of my favorites as they tend to have an edge in writing.
Also Space Dandy is great!
SunBro26 said: The camerawork and movement just feels half-cooked in so many ways. It's all composed of really short cuts with little to no in-betweening and that just strikes me as an attempt to dodge the actual tough task of not just making an A to Z movement, but filling the letters in between too. I would say watch the episode, there are some continuing shots with high frame rates in there as well. I would send you a clip, but everything on youtube has been cut up, maybe check 16:30-16:50. SunBro26 said: Superbly directed/animated stuff. I'm going off of random memory here and throwing names - but uhh, both the Patlabor and the GITS movies, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, the original Terra e... film and Five Star Stories (thinking of obscure stuff), The Animatrix and Genius Party as far as anthologies go, Children of the Sea as far as modern films are concerned, and GITS: Stand Alone Complex and Seirei no Moribito for shows. I honestly can't name that many shows cause movies and OVAs have always delivered a consistently higher level of animation quality (which yes I know more time budget blabla) so shows have never particularly impressed me on the production front, even though they still comprise most of my favorites as they tend to have an edge in writing. Also Space Dandy is great! Thanks for the suggestions! also, I'm not sure if you have seen it, but if you want long cuts of on model, high frame rate goodness from modern times, don't miss out on pluto, this is a particularly impressive cut from the first like 10 minutes of the show: |
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Reply to APolygons2
Zimmu said:
Its weird that you mentioned how ep 16 is a "visual feast", but then you posted a gif from episode 17.
Its weird that you mentioned how ep 16 is a "visual feast", but then you posted a gif from episode 17.
I was talking about ep 17 (as in thunderclap part two like I said there), It was a small error on my part, I got the episode number wrong.
I didn't see anyone complain about the action of episode 16.
Zimmu said:
some people said that they couldn't understand what the animation is showing.
some people said that they couldn't understand what the animation is showing.
I hate to say it..... but that is straight up a skill issue lol
Idk, I followed well, but if they were complaining about this It would be understandable.
but being easily to follow is not even a "animation" thing, it's a directing thing.
Zimmu said:
Bringing up animators really feels like moral kidnapping. I created a post on this before, saying that animator's experience shouldnt be used as an argument to justify why the animation is good. Like tbh, not everyone have to be selfless and care about the animators. One can totally be very selfish, and only care about his/her own viewing experience, and that is okay to me. If someone tells me they don't care about mappa animators, I will be totally fine with that. If i am being really selfish, at the end of the day, we are just consumers. There really isn't a need to care about what happened in the process of making the anime. I don't promote this thought, but I am just saying the truth.
Bringing up animators really feels like moral kidnapping. I created a post on this before, saying that animator's experience shouldnt be used as an argument to justify why the animation is good. Like tbh, not everyone have to be selfless and care about the animators. One can totally be very selfish, and only care about his/her own viewing experience, and that is okay to me. If someone tells me they don't care about mappa animators, I will be totally fine with that. If i am being really selfish, at the end of the day, we are just consumers. There really isn't a need to care about what happened in the process of making the anime. I don't promote this thought, but I am just saying the truth.
I wasn't really making a moral argument.
Any actual animator or sakuga fan knows the episode looks beyond great. and you would think it's obvious.
Like, animating is a skill, and animation is a product that a lot of works and talent goes into it. So, what I'm saying is, Imagine knowing how much effort goes into an episode like this, and people saying "it's shit".
like the episode is objectively high effort. It's not lazy. you can think it looks bad because you don't like the style of it, but it's not poorly animated. it just isn't.
| @APolygons2 I didn't see anyone complain about the action of episode 16. Yeah, you are right. Me neither, because ep 16 was genuinely very well done I hate to say it..... but that is straight up a skill issue lol but being easily to follow is not even a "animation" thing, it's a directing thing. I also understood what is going. I have such a love-hate relationship with ep 17 I rewatched it so many times, and I gotta admit *for the most part*, things made sense. I can understand what is happening, but there are also sooo many things that did not make any sense, especially for anime-onlies. We get Mahoraga throwing trains around, changing sizes, or even being on a falling airplane. But we never got any context how these events even happened or what lead up to it. It just happened. Mahoraga in some scenes looked really off modeled, I get the episode is supposed to be flashy, but this is not it lol. But like you said, its a directing thing. However, I need to say that the animation, especially the mob psycho style made it confusing. People are saying this ep is confusing, although its a skill issue, but you can't deny that this episode, or in particular, the animation is hard to follow which caused people to be puzzled. This proves this animation has flaws. I had to watch it multiple times to full picture of what is happening. An example part is Sukuna domain expansion, which I don't think the animation was dealt with very well. Just my opinion. like the episode is objectively high effort. It's not lazy. you can think it looks bad because you don't like the style of it, but it's not poorly animated. it just isn't. uhh, I don't really know about this. I don't think you have any proves to say its "objectively" high effort. I mean sure, I get animators wanted to put in a lot of effort, but some scenes, like the Fuga arrow, is almost frozen in frames. I admit I don't like the style of it, but I respectively also very much doubt this is a visual feast like you claim, even in terms of animation. But like I said, after rewatching this ep so many times, I don't hate it as much as I did before. I think there are some really great scenes in this episode too which are exhibited in other eps. |
ZimmuDec 12, 2023 2:08 AM
Itsuki >  |
Reply to APolygons2
DigiCat said:
This i don't understand... art is an even more subjective topic than animation
This i don't understand... art is an even more subjective topic than animation
The art of season one, specially during action scenes is a lot more detailed... that's just objectively true. If you compare them you'll see it.
DigiCat said:
Although i do also prefere the artstyle of s1 to s2, at least the first half of s2, i do really like how they changed up the art of s2 ep 15 onwards
Although i do also prefere the artstyle of s1 to s2, at least the first half of s2, i do really like how they changed up the art of s2 ep 15 onwards
The art style of season 2 hasn't changed.... episodes 15, 16 and 17 just have masterclass animation even by jjk standards.
DigiCat said:
This is one part of animation we see differently, for me the complexity of a scene/shot isn't what determinds the quality of it, i'm sure there's a better word for what i'm trying to say but don't remember it now :P
This is one part of animation we see differently, for me the complexity of a scene/shot isn't what determinds the quality of it, i'm sure there's a better word for what i'm trying to say but don't remember it now :P
But that IS animation, this is why I think your way of thinking is just too different for this discussion.
DigiCat said:
Point is, if a still or simple shot is well placed within the whole scene and gives it the illusion of fluidity, for me the scene is better animated than say for example a more complex shot that comes off as stiff
Point is, if a still or simple shot is well placed within the whole scene and gives it the illusion of fluidity, for me the scene is better animated than say for example a more complex shot that comes off as stiff
That is a directing/choreography thing.
I think the issue is that you combine directing and animation together in your head, but you ONLY do it for some aspects of directing. Like you consider scene transitions directing, but probably don't consider choreography directing.... you count it as part of the animation for some reason.
More frames doesn't always mean better, specially if the frames are unnecessary, that's why those forcefully made 60fps edits are stupid.
It's also why, the scene where yuji and mahito are walking towards each other as the corridor closes looks so off despite being "smooth". the amount of frames and angle were just not working at all. If I was the director, I would probably either make the wall close super fast while they run towards each other or, would at least hold the camera behind them in a way that shows the face of the person in front.
That would work, WAY better.
APolygons2 said: The art of season one, specially during action scenes is a lot more detailed... that's just objectively true. If you compare them you'll see it I know it's objectively more detailed, but like with anmation more complex doesn't always = better, with art more detail doesn't always = better Personally i find it much harder to judge art as objectively good or bad (unless it's a blatently obvious eyesore), wheres animation has some key elements that make it work or not you can base a more objective thought on APolygons2 said: The art style of season 2 hasn't changed.... episodes 15, 16 and 17 just have masterclass animation even by jjk standards Ok i invite you to compare the Gojo vs Toji fight to Sukuna vs Jogo fight, to me they are very obviosly drawn in different styles, of course they're still in keeping with the source materiel, it's not like it suddenly became JoJo, but they are stylized differently APolygons2 said: #But that IS animation, this is why I think your way of thinking is just too different for this discussion What do you mean that IS animation?? T^T APolygons2 said: I think the issue is that you combine directing and animation together in your head I have literally said a billion times animation and direction are 2 seperate things, but yes, they do go hand in hand to make a good final product APolygons2 said: but probably don't consider choreography directing.... you count it as part of the animation for some reason If i thought like this i would say Chainsaw Man is choreographed like shit, but it is not, it's admitedly very well choreographed, i just don't think it's animated well (sorry for bringing up CSM again but it's the first example that came to mind) APolygons2 said: More frames doesn't always mean better, specially if the frames are unnecessary, that's why those forcefully made 60fps edits are stupid This i 100% agree on |
| @DigiCat Point is, if a still or simple shot is well placed within the whole scene and gives it the illusion of fluidity, for me the scene is better animated than say for example a more complex shot that comes off as stiff DigiCat said: I have literally said a billion times animation and direction are 2 seperate things, but yes, they do go hand in hand to make a good final product DigiCat said: I have literally said a billion times animation and direction are 2 seperate things, but yes, they do go hand in hand to make a good final product DigiCat said: If i thought like this i would say Chainsaw Man is choreographed like shit, but it is not, it's admitedly very well choreographed, i just don't think it's animated well (sorry for bringing up CSM again but it's the first example that came to mind) This to me is a contradiction for what you describe animation as. Illusion of fluidity is made by great directing. and stiff movement despite fluidity is from poor directing. The thing that creates that, is not the amount of frames, it's how those frames are shown, which is what the director controls. Which is why what you say makes 0 sense to me. The way you look at animation is partly including directing. but you say you're not doing it. but then when you explain what you consider good animation, you do talk about directing elements. If you can break the any scene down, and explain to me how and why exactly something like a scene from chainsaw man is poorly animated, I would understand. but the way you talk about it just makes no sense to me. Like you say the running looks like a ps2 game, and all I can think of is what does that even mean? It's a 2d anime and not all ps2 games are even similarly animated so, I don't even exactly know what you are complaining about. to me that's just words. like at least when people say CSM bad because CGI, I can be like, yeah I disagree, but I know why they dislike it. When you say it, I feel like I have no idea what you are even talking about, despite having a fairly decent understanding of how things like animation or directing works compared to an average person. That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow loos to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol DigiCat said: Ok i invite you to compare the Gojo vs Toji fight to Sukuna vs Jogo fight, to me they are very obviosly drawn in different styles, of course they're still in keeping with the source materiel, it's not like it suddenly became JoJo, but they are stylized differently If you look at it like that, I would argue a lot of fights this season have looked different from each other in many many different ways, largely because of them having different key animators probably: It's not that the latest 3 episodes of a slightly different art style. A LOT of fights in this season look different from each other:  https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/jujutsu-kaisen/images/8/8c/Mahito_vs._Ultimate_Mechamaru_%28Anime%29.gif/revision/latest/scale-to-width/360?cb=20230907213940  https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/e/e7/Suguru_geto_dragon_shikigami_.gif/revision/latest?cb=20230721132804  There are even moments when a specific cut looks very different and then it goes back to normal:   |
APolygons2Dec 12, 2023 3:28 AM
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
| @DigiCat Btw I noticed that the pictures weren't working after posting them so I added links to them, refresh the page if it's still broken on your end |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
Reply to APolygons2
@DigiCat
This to me is a contradiction for what you describe animation as.
Illusion of fluidity is made by great directing.
and stiff movement despite fluidity is from poor directing. The thing that creates that, is not the amount of frames, it's how those frames are shown, which is what the director controls.
Which is why what you say makes 0 sense to me. The way you look at animation is partly including directing. but you say you're not doing it.
but then when you explain what you consider good animation, you do talk about directing elements.
If you can break the any scene down, and explain to me how and why exactly something like a scene from chainsaw man is poorly animated, I would understand. but the way you talk about it just makes no sense to me.
Like you say the running looks like a ps2 game, and all I can think of is what does that even mean? It's a 2d anime and not all ps2 games are even similarly animated so, I don't even exactly know what you are complaining about. to me that's just words. like at least when people say CSM bad because CGI, I can be like, yeah I disagree, but I know why they dislike it.
When you say it, I feel like I have no idea what you are even talking about, despite having a fairly decent understanding of how things like animation or directing works compared to an average person.
That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow loos to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol
If you look at it like that, I would argue a lot of fights this season have looked different from each other in many many different ways, largely because of them having different key animators probably:
It's not that the latest 3 episodes of a slightly different art style.
A LOT of fights in this season look different from each other:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/jujutsu-kaisen/images/8/8c/Mahito_vs._Ultimate_Mechamaru_%28Anime%29.gif/revision/latest/scale-to-width/360?cb=20230907213940
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/e/e7/Suguru_geto_dragon_shikigami_.gif/revision/latest?cb=20230721132804
There are even moments when a specific cut looks very different and then it goes back to normal:
Point is, if a still or simple shot is well placed within the whole scene and gives it the illusion of fluidity, for me the scene is better animated than say for example a more complex shot that comes off as stiff
DigiCat said:
I have literally said a billion times animation and direction are 2 seperate things, but yes, they do go hand in hand to make a good final product
I have literally said a billion times animation and direction are 2 seperate things, but yes, they do go hand in hand to make a good final product
DigiCat said:
I have literally said a billion times animation and direction are 2 seperate things, but yes, they do go hand in hand to make a good final product
I have literally said a billion times animation and direction are 2 seperate things, but yes, they do go hand in hand to make a good final product
DigiCat said:
If i thought like this i would say Chainsaw Man is choreographed like shit, but it is not, it's admitedly very well choreographed, i just don't think it's animated well (sorry for bringing up CSM again but it's the first example that came to mind)
If i thought like this i would say Chainsaw Man is choreographed like shit, but it is not, it's admitedly very well choreographed, i just don't think it's animated well (sorry for bringing up CSM again but it's the first example that came to mind)
This to me is a contradiction for what you describe animation as.
Illusion of fluidity is made by great directing.
and stiff movement despite fluidity is from poor directing. The thing that creates that, is not the amount of frames, it's how those frames are shown, which is what the director controls.
Which is why what you say makes 0 sense to me. The way you look at animation is partly including directing. but you say you're not doing it.
but then when you explain what you consider good animation, you do talk about directing elements.
If you can break the any scene down, and explain to me how and why exactly something like a scene from chainsaw man is poorly animated, I would understand. but the way you talk about it just makes no sense to me.
Like you say the running looks like a ps2 game, and all I can think of is what does that even mean? It's a 2d anime and not all ps2 games are even similarly animated so, I don't even exactly know what you are complaining about. to me that's just words. like at least when people say CSM bad because CGI, I can be like, yeah I disagree, but I know why they dislike it.
When you say it, I feel like I have no idea what you are even talking about, despite having a fairly decent understanding of how things like animation or directing works compared to an average person.
That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow loos to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol
DigiCat said:
Ok i invite you to compare the Gojo vs Toji fight to Sukuna vs Jogo fight, to me they are very obviosly drawn in different styles, of course they're still in keeping with the source materiel, it's not like it suddenly became JoJo, but they are stylized differently
Ok i invite you to compare the Gojo vs Toji fight to Sukuna vs Jogo fight, to me they are very obviosly drawn in different styles, of course they're still in keeping with the source materiel, it's not like it suddenly became JoJo, but they are stylized differently
If you look at it like that, I would argue a lot of fights this season have looked different from each other in many many different ways, largely because of them having different key animators probably:
It's not that the latest 3 episodes of a slightly different art style.
A LOT of fights in this season look different from each other:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/jujutsu-kaisen/images/8/8c/Mahito_vs._Ultimate_Mechamaru_%28Anime%29.gif/revision/latest/scale-to-width/360?cb=20230907213940
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/e/e7/Suguru_geto_dragon_shikigami_.gif/revision/latest?cb=20230721132804
There are even moments when a specific cut looks very different and then it goes back to normal:
APolygons2 said: Illusion of fluidity is made by great directing It's a combination of animation and directing, so yes reffering to it as animation alone was wrong APolygons2 said: If you can break the any scene down, and explain to me how and why exactly something like a scene from chainsaw man is poorly animated, I would understand. but the way you talk about it just makes no sense to me I don't know how to break down the technical side of things, but to try and give a more clear example of why i think it's bad, 2 specific things that relly bothered me When Chainsaw Man fights he's drawn in full CGI 90% of the time, and when he is in full CGI 1) His movements look dull, i don't see the streangth he's puttin into beating up bad guys or the energy bursting out of him when he's pumped up This is not a problem of directing/choreography, cuz the movements are good, they should work, but the way they're animated it feels like it's lacking something 2) CGI Chainsaw Man is pretty expressionless despide having quite exagerated movements, and don't say it's because his head is a chainsaw, if Al in FMA can be expressive as a suit of armor who's only part of the face he can move is his eyes (and i'm talking Al without the kawaii filter), then Denji can bloody well be expressive with a chainsaw for a head Again, not a problem of directing, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the camera angles that would affect his expressions, but the aniimation is lifeless APolygons2 said: Like you say the running looks like a ps2 game, and all I can think of is what does that even mean? It's a 2d anime and not all ps2 games are even similarly animated so, I don't even exactly know what you are complaining about. to me that's just words Ok you bring up a good point with there's many different types of PS2 games Think something like GTA, what does it look/feel like when you are controlling the character making him run around the city looking for a car to steal? That is the feeling i get when watching Yuji run around the shopping mall, it's very smooth, but feels lifeless, automated, i mean the reason that effect works in videogames is cuz you have a controller in your hand and are having fun deciding what the character gets up to And the bacground of thise scenees are definitely reminicent of the typical 3DCG PS2 games, exept they are not blended well in the slightest with the characters looks APolygons2 said: That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow loos to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol LMFAO this is gold! Permission to have this quote in my forum signatur? I love it :3 APolygons2 said: If you look at it like that, I would argue a lot of fights this season have looked different from each other in many many different ways, largely because of them having different key animators probably Exactly, and each key animator has his/her own signature style Btw first 2 images didn't load edit: APolygons2 said: Btw I noticed that the pictures weren't working after posting them so I added links to them, refresh the page if it's still broken on your end Found links 👍 |
DigiCatDec 12, 2023 4:11 AM
Reply to DigiCat
APolygons2 said:
Illusion of fluidity is made by great directing
Illusion of fluidity is made by great directing
It's a combination of animation and directing, so yes reffering to it as animation alone was wrong
APolygons2 said:
If you can break the any scene down, and explain to me how and why exactly something like a scene from chainsaw man is poorly animated, I would understand. but the way you talk about it just makes no sense to me
If you can break the any scene down, and explain to me how and why exactly something like a scene from chainsaw man is poorly animated, I would understand. but the way you talk about it just makes no sense to me
I don't know how to break down the technical side of things, but to try and give a more clear example of why i think it's bad, 2 specific things that relly bothered me
When Chainsaw Man fights he's drawn in full CGI 90% of the time, and when he is in full CGI
1) His movements look dull, i don't see the streangth he's puttin into beating up bad guys or the energy bursting out of him when he's pumped up
This is not a problem of directing/choreography, cuz the movements are good, they should work, but the way they're animated it feels like it's lacking something
2) CGI Chainsaw Man is pretty expressionless despide having quite exagerated movements, and don't say it's because his head is a chainsaw, if Al in FMA can be expressive as a suit of armor who's only part of the face he can move is his eyes (and i'm talking Al without the kawaii filter), then Denji can bloody well be expressive with a chainsaw for a head
Again, not a problem of directing, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the camera angles that would affect his expressions, but the aniimation is lifeless
APolygons2 said:
Like you say the running looks like a ps2 game, and all I can think of is what does that even mean? It's a 2d anime and not all ps2 games are even similarly animated so, I don't even exactly know what you are complaining about. to me that's just words
Like you say the running looks like a ps2 game, and all I can think of is what does that even mean? It's a 2d anime and not all ps2 games are even similarly animated so, I don't even exactly know what you are complaining about. to me that's just words
Ok you bring up a good point with there's many different types of PS2 games
Think something like GTA, what does it look/feel like when you are controlling the character making him run around the city looking for a car to steal?
That is the feeling i get when watching Yuji run around the shopping mall, it's very smooth, but feels lifeless, automated, i mean the reason that effect works in videogames is cuz you have a controller in your hand and are having fun deciding what the character gets up to
And the bacground of thise scenees are definitely reminicent of the typical 3DCG PS2 games, exept they are not blended well in the slightest with the characters looks
APolygons2 said:
That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow loos to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol
That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow loos to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol
LMFAO this is gold! Permission to have this quote in my forum signatur? I love it :3
APolygons2 said:
If you look at it like that, I would argue a lot of fights this season have looked different from each other in many many different ways, largely because of them having different key animators probably
If you look at it like that, I would argue a lot of fights this season have looked different from each other in many many different ways, largely because of them having different key animators probably
Exactly, and each key animator has his/her own signature style
Btw first 2 images didn't load
edit:
APolygons2 said:
Btw I noticed that the pictures weren't working after posting them so I added links to them, refresh the page if it's still broken on your end
Btw I noticed that the pictures weren't working after posting them so I added links to them, refresh the page if it's still broken on your end
Found links 👍
DigiCat said: When Chainsaw Man fights he's drawn in full CGI 90% of the time, and when he is in full CGI That's just not true though. The vast majority of the scenes has him in either full 2d, or mostly 2d. with the only 3d parts being his head and chainsaw hands. and even his head has some parts like the tongue animated in 2d. DigiCat said: but the way they're animated it feels like it's lacking something See, this is the problem, I don't see this. You say "lacking something" but I don't feel it, I think his power comes through great. I do feel his strength. and honestly, I think the "punch" feel that you are looking for has just as much to do with sound design. which is a whole other topic. but like genuinely, what is that "something". DigiCat said: CGI Chainsaw Man is pretty expressionless despide having quite exagerated movements, and don't say it's because his head is a chainsaw, if Al in FMA can be expressive as a suit of armor who's only part of the face he can move is his eyes (and i'm talking Al without the kawaii filter), then Denji can bloody well be expressive with a chainsaw for a head I don't think that's because of him being a chainsaw, or him being cgi. That's mostly the case because you don't see his eyes in that form more often that not. and even when you do see it, it's eyes is never moving. and eyes are a massive part of being expressive. look at this scene:  This cut has him fully 2d and the animation itself is quit expressive. But his face still looks still. you don't really see any new emotions coming through in comparison to this:  Like it's really not that different. but again, the main issue is that I don't understand what you mean. I just don't see this "something off" thing that you are talking about. DigiCat said: Think something like GTA, what does it look/feel like when you are controlling the character making him run around the city looking for a car to steal? That is the feeling i get when watching Yuji run around the shopping mall, it's very smooth, but feels lifeless, automated, i mean the reason that effect works in videogames is cuz you have a controller in your hand and are having fun deciding what the character gets up to Can you give me a time stamp? DigiCat said: LMFAO this is gold! Permission to have this quote in my forum signatur? I love it :3 Go for it, I already rolled NAT one before the royal flush anyone, so it's not like I can keep the deck. DigiCat said: Btw first 2 images didn't load I left a link under them that goes to it. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
Reply to APolygons2
DigiCat said:
When Chainsaw Man fights he's drawn in full CGI 90% of the time, and when he is in full CGI
When Chainsaw Man fights he's drawn in full CGI 90% of the time, and when he is in full CGI
That's just not true though.
The vast majority of the scenes has him in either full 2d, or mostly 2d. with the only 3d parts being his head and chainsaw hands. and even his head has some parts like the tongue animated in 2d.
DigiCat said:
but the way they're animated it feels like it's lacking something
but the way they're animated it feels like it's lacking something
See, this is the problem, I don't see this.
You say "lacking something" but I don't feel it, I think his power comes through great. I do feel his strength. and honestly, I think the "punch" feel that you are looking for has just as much to do with sound design. which is a whole other topic.
but like genuinely, what is that "something".
DigiCat said:
CGI Chainsaw Man is pretty expressionless despide having quite exagerated movements, and don't say it's because his head is a chainsaw, if Al in FMA can be expressive as a suit of armor who's only part of the face he can move is his eyes (and i'm talking Al without the kawaii filter), then Denji can bloody well be expressive with a chainsaw for a head
CGI Chainsaw Man is pretty expressionless despide having quite exagerated movements, and don't say it's because his head is a chainsaw, if Al in FMA can be expressive as a suit of armor who's only part of the face he can move is his eyes (and i'm talking Al without the kawaii filter), then Denji can bloody well be expressive with a chainsaw for a head
I don't think that's because of him being a chainsaw, or him being cgi.
That's mostly the case because you don't see his eyes in that form more often that not. and even when you do see it, it's eyes is never moving. and eyes are a massive part of being expressive.
look at this scene:
This cut has him fully 2d and the animation itself is quit expressive.
But his face still looks still. you don't really see any new emotions coming through in comparison to this:
Like it's really not that different.
but again, the main issue is that I don't understand what you mean. I just don't see this "something off" thing that you are talking about.
DigiCat said:
Think something like GTA, what does it look/feel like when you are controlling the character making him run around the city looking for a car to steal?
That is the feeling i get when watching Yuji run around the shopping mall, it's very smooth, but feels lifeless, automated, i mean the reason that effect works in videogames is cuz you have a controller in your hand and are having fun deciding what the character gets up to
Think something like GTA, what does it look/feel like when you are controlling the character making him run around the city looking for a car to steal?
That is the feeling i get when watching Yuji run around the shopping mall, it's very smooth, but feels lifeless, automated, i mean the reason that effect works in videogames is cuz you have a controller in your hand and are having fun deciding what the character gets up to
Can you give me a time stamp?
DigiCat said:
LMFAO this is gold! Permission to have this quote in my forum signatur? I love it :3
LMFAO this is gold! Permission to have this quote in my forum signatur? I love it :3
Go for it, I already rolled NAT one before the royal flush anyone, so it's not like I can keep the deck.
DigiCat said:
Btw first 2 images didn't load
Btw first 2 images didn't load
I left a link under them that goes to it.
APolygons2 said: That's just not true though. The vast majority of the scenes has him in either full 2d, or mostly 2d. with the only 3d parts being his head and chainsaw hands. and even his head has some parts like the tongue animated in 2d. For someone who knows a lot about animation, you don't seem to gage the fact that having lines on the drawings doesn't automatically make it 2D I mean by that logic Dragon Ball super Hero movie is fully 2D, which it is not Maybe 90% is an exageration, but the % is still high APolygons2 said: You say "lacking something" but I don't feel it, I think his power comes through great. I do feel his strength. and honestly, I think the "punch" feel that you are looking for has just as much to do with sound design. which is a whole other topic Nope, soude design is great, music, background sound, voice acting, all top noth But again, this is something that goes hand in hand with the animation and direction to all together make a good prodect (if you enjoyed it and think it came out well nothing against you, but i don't feel the same way) APolygons2 said: That's mostly the case because you don't see his eyes in that form more often that not. and even when you do see it, it's eyes is never moving. and eyes are a massive part of being expressive That is literally the same as saying "because he's a chansaw"! APolygons2 said: This cut has him fully 2d and the animation itself is quit expressive. True, but these 2D cuts in Chainsaw Man form are few and far between APolygons2 said: Can you give me a time stamp? For Yuji running? https://aniwave.to/watch/jujutsu-kaisen-2nd-season.ll3x3/ep-18 Even without the running, the backgroung art here in the beginning of the ep, it feels too sterile But timestamp for running for example 08:18min - it's those movments you'd expect to see when pressing X to jump on a PlayStation controller Since you mentione about sound design before, JJK s2 like CSM has great sound design, but this scene for example 11:09min the energy in the sound doesn't match the more dull running motion on screen (not to mention Yuji's face isn't even in sync with the screaming of his VA) Admitedly the running scene isn't actually that long, it just really stuck out to me, but that doesn't change that the backgrounds in general are very lacking in the latest eps, and yes it is part of animation cuz the characters are moving in that space, it's not a still backgroung |
Reply to DigiCat
APolygons2 said:
That's just not true though.
The vast majority of the scenes has him in either full 2d, or mostly 2d. with the only 3d parts being his head and chainsaw hands. and even his head has some parts like the tongue animated in 2d.
That's just not true though.
The vast majority of the scenes has him in either full 2d, or mostly 2d. with the only 3d parts being his head and chainsaw hands. and even his head has some parts like the tongue animated in 2d.
For someone who knows a lot about animation, you don't seem to gage the fact that having lines on the drawings doesn't automatically make it 2D
I mean by that logic Dragon Ball super Hero movie is fully 2D, which it is not
Maybe 90% is an exageration, but the % is still high
APolygons2 said:
You say "lacking something" but I don't feel it, I think his power comes through great. I do feel his strength. and honestly, I think the "punch" feel that you are looking for has just as much to do with sound design. which is a whole other topic
You say "lacking something" but I don't feel it, I think his power comes through great. I do feel his strength. and honestly, I think the "punch" feel that you are looking for has just as much to do with sound design. which is a whole other topic
Nope, soude design is great, music, background sound, voice acting, all top noth
But again, this is something that goes hand in hand with the animation and direction to all together make a good prodect (if you enjoyed it and think it came out well nothing against you, but i don't feel the same way)
APolygons2 said:
That's mostly the case because you don't see his eyes in that form more often that not. and even when you do see it, it's eyes is never moving. and eyes are a massive part of being expressive
That's mostly the case because you don't see his eyes in that form more often that not. and even when you do see it, it's eyes is never moving. and eyes are a massive part of being expressive
That is literally the same as saying "because he's a chansaw"!
APolygons2 said:
This cut has him fully 2d and the animation itself is quit expressive.
This cut has him fully 2d and the animation itself is quit expressive.
True, but these 2D cuts in Chainsaw Man form are few and far between
APolygons2 said:
Can you give me a time stamp?
Can you give me a time stamp?
For Yuji running?
https://aniwave.to/watch/jujutsu-kaisen-2nd-season.ll3x3/ep-18
Even without the running, the backgroung art here in the beginning of the ep, it feels too sterile
But timestamp for running for example 08:18min - it's those movments you'd expect to see when pressing X to jump on a PlayStation controller
Since you mentione about sound design before, JJK s2 like CSM has great sound design, but this scene for example 11:09min the energy in the sound doesn't match the more dull running motion on screen (not to mention Yuji's face isn't even in sync with the screaming of his VA)
Admitedly the running scene isn't actually that long, it just really stuck out to me, but that doesn't change that the backgrounds in general are very lacking in the latest eps, and yes it is part of animation cuz the characters are moving in that space, it's not a still backgroung
DigiCat said: For someone who knows a lot about animation, you don't seem to gage the fact that having lines on the drawings doesn't automatically make it 2D I mean by that logic Dragon Ball super Hero movie is fully 2D, which it is not No it wouldn't, but chainsaw man isn't cell shaded in that way, it is actually mostly a 2D model. During episode 1 for example (while it did have some bad cgi shots) a lot of the scenes that people thought were cgi were in full 2d, and mappa had to release proof for it: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawMan/comments/y9vcoa/all_2d_scenes_in_chainsaw_man_episode_1/ Chainsaw man DOES have some fully 3D models too, a version of katana man and ghost devil is fully 3D. but denji is almost always a mix with the mostly only the chainsaws being cgi. DigiCat said: "because he's a chansaw"! I was trying to compare him to alhphand who does have eyes, and and that is pretty much the main thing that makes him look more expressive. Not even, episode 4 example was entirely 2d, it didn't even have a frame of cgi. but point aside, I said that to say it doesn't look any less expressive than the CGI one I sent below it. DigiCat said: it's those movements you'd expect to see when pressing X to jump on a PlayStation controller well, see, that is purely the directing. It doesn't even look bad to me, but even if it did, what you are complaining about there is an issue because of the way the scene is directed, not because of how it's animated. DigiCat said: doesn't match the more dull running motion on screen When I say sound design, I am mainly talking about sound effects and stuff. as far as voice acting goes, I watched the dub, so I wouldn't know about the exact line issues of the sub. DigiCat said: Admitedly the running scene isn't actually that long I am so surprised that is your issue. like it is very short and it's not even bad if you ask me. The scene that bothered me by far the most is from 14:08 - 14:30 This is actually bad. I have no idea what they were going for, but this is the worst looking cut in the entire series by far. the background looks like an empty unity projects, the curse wall looks green screened, and mahito's face feels off model. the entire thing doesn't even feel like a real scene. DigiCat said: backgrounds in general are very lacking in the latest eps With the exception of the scene I mentioned where it just sucked. The backgrounds have been fine. I think the issue is that the whole thing is in a metro, so even if they wanted to there isn't really much you can do to make them look good. The few shots of nobara being outside, or the sequence inside the train had great backgrounds. Oh also: That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow loos to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol I appreciate that you liked the joke so much, but maybe don't keep the spelling error part lol somehow loos to an |
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Reply to APolygons2
DigiCat said:
For someone who knows a lot about animation, you don't seem to gage the fact that having lines on the drawings doesn't automatically make it 2D
I mean by that logic Dragon Ball super Hero movie is fully 2D, which it is not
For someone who knows a lot about animation, you don't seem to gage the fact that having lines on the drawings doesn't automatically make it 2D
I mean by that logic Dragon Ball super Hero movie is fully 2D, which it is not
No it wouldn't, but chainsaw man isn't cell shaded in that way, it is actually mostly a 2D model.
During episode 1 for example (while it did have some bad cgi shots) a lot of the scenes that people thought were cgi were in full 2d, and mappa had to release proof for it: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawMan/comments/y9vcoa/all_2d_scenes_in_chainsaw_man_episode_1/
Chainsaw man DOES have some fully 3D models too, a version of katana man and ghost devil is fully 3D. but denji is almost always a mix with the mostly only the chainsaws being cgi.
DigiCat said:
"because he's a chansaw"!
"because he's a chansaw"!
I was trying to compare him to alhphand who does have eyes, and and that is pretty much the main thing that makes him look more expressive.
Not even, episode 4 example was entirely 2d, it didn't even have a frame of cgi.
but point aside, I said that to say it doesn't look any less expressive than the CGI one I sent below it.
DigiCat said:
it's those movements you'd expect to see when pressing X to jump on a PlayStation controller
it's those movements you'd expect to see when pressing X to jump on a PlayStation controller
well, see, that is purely the directing. It doesn't even look bad to me, but even if it did, what you are complaining about there is an issue because of the way the scene is directed, not because of how it's animated.
DigiCat said:
doesn't match the more dull running motion on screen
doesn't match the more dull running motion on screen
When I say sound design, I am mainly talking about sound effects and stuff. as far as voice acting goes, I watched the dub, so I wouldn't know about the exact line issues of the sub.
DigiCat said:
Admitedly the running scene isn't actually that long
Admitedly the running scene isn't actually that long
I am so surprised that is your issue. like it is very short and it's not even bad if you ask me.
The scene that bothered me by far the most is from 14:08 - 14:30 This is actually bad.
I have no idea what they were going for, but this is the worst looking cut in the entire series by far. the background looks like an empty unity projects, the curse wall looks green screened, and mahito's face feels off model. the entire thing doesn't even feel like a real scene.
DigiCat said:
backgrounds in general are very lacking in the latest eps
backgrounds in general are very lacking in the latest eps
With the exception of the scene I mentioned where it just sucked.
The backgrounds have been fine. I think the issue is that the whole thing is in a metro, so even if they wanted to there isn't really much you can do to make them look good.
The few shots of nobara being outside, or the sequence inside the train had great backgrounds.
Oh also:
That's why I thought a discussion would be pointless. It doesn't feel like a debate. It feels like I'm playing chess and somehow loos to an uno reverse card after loosing all my monopoly money lol
I appreciate that you liked the joke so much, but maybe don't keep the spelling error part lol
somehow loos to an
APolygons2 said: During episode 1 for example (while it did have some bad cgi shots) a lot of the scenes that people thought were cgi were in full 2d, and mappa had to release proof for it Ok... there are 4 2D scenes, what about the rest of the fight? APolygons2 said: but denji is almost always a mix with the mostly only the chainsaws being cgi. Mix or full CG doesn't change the fact that a lot of scenes in Chainsaw Man form looked off APolygons2 said: well, see, that is purely the directing How is it purly a directing thing? It's not the camera angle i'm talking about, it's not the jumping motion i'm talkig about, it's the way the scene is animated APolygons2 said: When I say sound design, I am mainly talking about sound effects and stuff. as far as voice acting goes, I watched the dub, so I wouldn't know about the exact line issues of the sub I mean with the running motion i'm talking about sound effects and soundtrack, which don't change in dub, the way he sounds when he screams will change depending on the dub VA, but i highly doubt any dub can scream in sync considering Yuji doesn't move one facial muscle during the whole scene APolygons2 said: The scene that bothered me by far the most is from 14:08 - 14:30 This is actually bad Yuji and Mahito walking to eachother while wall squishing them? Definitely, i didn't mention cuz i remembered you mentioned it earlier, i think we're talking about the same scene? APolygons2 said: The backgrounds have been fine. I think the issue is that the whole thing is in a metro, so even if they wanted to there isn't really much you can do to make them look good No way are the metro backgrounds fine, i am not talking about how simple they look, i am talking about them not being well blended with the rest of what's going on on screen Compare for example this scene in JJK2 vs this from Dekiru Neko (which background art/animation is of a similar style, mostly full CG cleancut) I'm talking exclusively about how well the background blends with the rest of the scene, not what action is happening in it (i tried to find ones with similar amount of detail in backgrounds)  VS  APolygons2 said: I appreciate that you liked the joke so much, but maybe don't keep the spelling error part lol Ok i'll correct it, relax my spelling ain't great either xD edit: lol, i just realized... loos 🚽 |
Reply to APolygons2
@SunBro26 I don't know what's the worse:
1. The fact that you think having seen older anime means you understand animation better
2. or the fact that you went through profile to count how many older anime I have seen, and the fact that I counted it too to confirm it
I am not claiming to be an expert. but I definitely no more than your average person. And I DEFINITELY know more than the less than inteligence people I was talking about in this thread.
Now stop being a dick and instead,
maybe suggest me your favourited superbly well animated/directed older anime.
I was thinking of watching space dandy for my next animation itch, but I'm not against some cell animation goodness.
1. The fact that you think having seen older anime means you understand animation better
2. or the fact that you went through profile to count how many older anime I have seen, and the fact that I counted it too to confirm it
I am not claiming to be an expert. but I definitely no more than your average person. And I DEFINITELY know more than the less than inteligence people I was talking about in this thread.
Now stop being a dick and instead,
maybe suggest me your favourited superbly well animated/directed older anime.
I was thinking of watching space dandy for my next animation itch, but I'm not against some cell animation goodness.
APolygons2 said: the fact that you went through profile to count how many older anime I have seen, and the fact that I counted it too to confirm it He probably used malgraph. It's much faster. https://anime.plus That said, I'm not sure how watching animation drawn on cells would qualify you to judge animation not drawn on cells. APolygons2 said: maybe suggest me your favourited superbly well animated/directed older anime. https://myanimelist.net/anime/2793/Hi_no_Tori_2772__Ai_no_CosmoZone I must warn you that the story is anime-original and fairly bland. The story of Arion is even worse. But if you're specifically looking for action, it has my favorite fight scenes of any older anime. https://myanimelist.net/anime/791/Arion EDIT: I remembered another movie I like. https://myanimelist.net/anime/1034/Ouritsu_Uchuugun__Honneamise_no_Tsubasa |
LucifrostDec 13, 2023 4:18 PM
| その目だれの目？ |
| I'm not even a jjk fan, but I was at the edge of my seat entire that episode. Everyone involved with that episode are insane, specially Vincent, massive respect to all of them. Planning to buy the official blurays which I rarely do even for my favorite shows. |
Reply to APolygons2
Phosphophyllita said:
I didn't see this character development. Apparently, a lot was at stake, but in reality, it wasn't that significant. Only secondary and underdeveloped characters died. Flashbacks were out of order, Miwa's romance came out of nowhere and went nowhere. A bunch of fights that didn't mean anything; apart from Mahito vs. Yuji, nothing really mattered. Even a potentially impactful moment, 'Getou' sealing Gojou, didn't have the proper impact because Getou is being controlled.
Idiotic moments like Toji's suicide, the guy who killed Satoru Gojou should have killed Fushiguro in seconds, just like he did with the octopus guy. 'Stand Proud.' Nobara's flashback seconds before she seemingly died. There were also moments where the direction left much to be desired, some moments in Sukuna vs. Maratanga's fight before it got serious, moments in Mahito vs. Yuji.
I could go on for a good while mentioning reasons that made Jujutsu fall in quality for me. I think Gege Akutami tried to take a step larger than the leg in this arc and ended up failing. Let's see how it will be after this.
I didn't see this character development. Apparently, a lot was at stake, but in reality, it wasn't that significant. Only secondary and underdeveloped characters died. Flashbacks were out of order, Miwa's romance came out of nowhere and went nowhere. A bunch of fights that didn't mean anything; apart from Mahito vs. Yuji, nothing really mattered. Even a potentially impactful moment, 'Getou' sealing Gojou, didn't have the proper impact because Getou is being controlled.
Idiotic moments like Toji's suicide, the guy who killed Satoru Gojou should have killed Fushiguro in seconds, just like he did with the octopus guy. 'Stand Proud.' Nobara's flashback seconds before she seemingly died. There were also moments where the direction left much to be desired, some moments in Sukuna vs. Maratanga's fight before it got serious, moments in Mahito vs. Yuji.
I could go on for a good while mentioning reasons that made Jujutsu fall in quality for me. I think Gege Akutami tried to take a step larger than the leg in this arc and ended up failing. Let's see how it will be after this.
AkuyaSama said:
season 1 was much better. Much like demon slayer season 2, JJKS2 has lots of very well animated fights, but theres absolutely nothing deeper behind them, nothing. Fight after fight after fight, no mater how well animated will get boring if theres not an interesting story driving the fights. Also apart from Mechamaru, I'm not sure what you mean by "More character development" and "more character depth". Every character is exactly the same as they where previously, though I don't take off too many points for that cause it is still a shounen.
Oh and to do with the original post, yeah so many people have no idea what there talking about when it come to animation lol. And it really bugs me when people complain about the SLIGHTEST cgi.
season 1 was much better. Much like demon slayer season 2, JJKS2 has lots of very well animated fights, but theres absolutely nothing deeper behind them, nothing. Fight after fight after fight, no mater how well animated will get boring if theres not an interesting story driving the fights. Also apart from Mechamaru, I'm not sure what you mean by "More character development" and "more character depth". Every character is exactly the same as they where previously, though I don't take off too many points for that cause it is still a shounen.
Oh and to do with the original post, yeah so many people have no idea what there talking about when it come to animation lol. And it really bugs me when people complain about the SLIGHTEST cgi.
Wait, are you guys serious?
Ok, I want both of you to genuinely hear me out with an open mind, because I do think There is a good chance that I can change your minds to some degree on this.
I will start with the 3 characters, that have had the most major change/depths added by us learning more about them:
now, to address some of you guy's other comments:
Phosphophyllita said:
Apparently, a lot was at stake, but in reality, it wasn't that significant. Only secondary and underdeveloped characters died.
Apparently, a lot was at stake, but in reality, it wasn't that significant. Only secondary and underdeveloped characters died.
Phosphophyllita said:
Idiotic moments like Toji's suicide, the guy who killed Satoru Gojou should have killed Fushiguro in seconds
Idiotic moments like Toji's suicide, the guy who killed Satoru Gojou should have killed Fushiguro in seconds
Phosphophyllita said:
Miwa's romance came out of nowhere and went nowhere
Miwa's romance came out of nowhere and went nowhere
Phosphophyllita said:
Getou' sealing Gojou, didn't have the proper impact because Getou is being controlled.
Getou' sealing Gojou, didn't have the proper impact because Getou is being controlled.
AkuyaSama said:
no mater how well animated will get boring if theres not an interesting story driving the fights.
no mater how well animated will get boring if theres not an interesting story driving the fights.
| @APolygons2 I should clarify a bit. The first arc of season 2 showing the backstory of Gojo Geto and everyone I really enjoyed and thought was very well done. Most of the issues I have with season 2 comes from the shibuya arc. If you ask me, for something to be considered a great show, it has to do something to stand out form the crowd. Not only be well written but it has to to have a special something you cant get elsewhere. Something that gives the show its own identity. Something to make it unique. And I find that season 2 is anything but. Theres nothing special about it. Nothing you cant get elsewhere. I loved season 1 because it felt like it had so much potential. But as season 2 continues its shown that its just more genericness. I dont think season 2 is bad, not at all. But its just nothing very noteworthy. |
 |
| I can never see what's happening or why. Sakuga is good if it flows with the rest of what's going on. If sakuga just exists out of context and we're rushing from point A to Point N without a lot of logic then the value of sakuga gets utterly lost. "Oh wouldn't this be cool? And THAT'S cool. COOL COOL COOL COOL." Just spamming sequences everywhere. The quality of one group of artists in the studio is not representative of the health of the project as a whole. But I'm glad OP is liking it, they need all the support they can get. It's just an incohesive mess for me. |
Reply to DigiCat
APolygons2 said:
During episode 1 for example (while it did have some bad cgi shots) a lot of the scenes that people thought were cgi were in full 2d, and mappa had to release proof for it
During episode 1 for example (while it did have some bad cgi shots) a lot of the scenes that people thought were cgi were in full 2d, and mappa had to release proof for it
Ok... there are 4 2D scenes, what about the rest of the fight?
APolygons2 said:
but denji is almost always a mix with the mostly only the chainsaws being cgi.
but denji is almost always a mix with the mostly only the chainsaws being cgi.
Mix or full CG doesn't change the fact that a lot of scenes in Chainsaw Man form looked off
APolygons2 said:
well, see, that is purely the directing
well, see, that is purely the directing
How is it purly a directing thing? It's not the camera angle i'm talking about, it's not the jumping motion i'm talkig about, it's the way the scene is animated
APolygons2 said:
When I say sound design, I am mainly talking about sound effects and stuff. as far as voice acting goes, I watched the dub, so I wouldn't know about the exact line issues of the sub
When I say sound design, I am mainly talking about sound effects and stuff. as far as voice acting goes, I watched the dub, so I wouldn't know about the exact line issues of the sub
I mean with the running motion i'm talking about sound effects and soundtrack, which don't change in dub, the way he sounds when he screams will change depending on the dub VA, but i highly doubt any dub can scream in sync considering Yuji doesn't move one facial muscle during the whole scene
APolygons2 said:
The scene that bothered me by far the most is from 14:08 - 14:30 This is actually bad
The scene that bothered me by far the most is from 14:08 - 14:30 This is actually bad
Yuji and Mahito walking to eachother while wall squishing them? Definitely, i didn't mention cuz i remembered you mentioned it earlier, i think we're talking about the same scene?
APolygons2 said:
The backgrounds have been fine. I think the issue is that the whole thing is in a metro, so even if they wanted to there isn't really much you can do to make them look good
The backgrounds have been fine. I think the issue is that the whole thing is in a metro, so even if they wanted to there isn't really much you can do to make them look good
No way are the metro backgrounds fine, i am not talking about how simple they look, i am talking about them not being well blended with the rest of what's going on on screen
Compare for example this scene in JJK2 vs this from Dekiru Neko (which background art/animation is of a similar style, mostly full CG cleancut)
I'm talking exclusively about how well the background blends with the rest of the scene, not what action is happening in it (i tried to find ones with similar amount of detail in backgrounds)
VS
APolygons2 said:
I appreciate that you liked the joke so much, but maybe don't keep the spelling error part lol
I appreciate that you liked the joke so much, but maybe don't keep the spelling error part lol
Ok i'll correct it, relax my spelling ain't great either xD
edit: lol, i just realized... loos 🚽
I'm obviously not saying there are no cgi scenes. But I am saying, 90% of the show (counting none fight scenes, if we went by fights alone it would be about 50-60%), is fully 2d. with the remaining 10% being a mix. but that doesn't really matter. It looking bad or not is a whole different topic. But The vast majority of the scenes are either fully or mostly 2D. DigiCat said: Mix or full CG doesn't change the fact that a lot of scenes in Chainsaw Man form looked off hence this. The whole it being 2d or not was just a random tangent, from when you said he is 90% cgi. DigiCat said: How is it purly a directing thing? It's not the camera angle i'm talking about, it's not the jumping motion i'm talkig about, it's the way the scene is animated It is 100% a mix of choreography and camera angle. the choice of making a 2d character going through a 2d environment with a slowly following camera. specially at that specific angle and when walking down stairs is the reason the scene looks a bit unnatural. there is nothing wrong with how it's animated. If itadaori ran that exact way, through a 3d background, it would always look off in the exact same way. maybe if the animation and background were superb enough, it could mask the semi-poor directing choice (again, I don't think it looks that bad). but that would be a "animation making up for the direction" kinda deal. I think it would make more sense to have that scene be in first person, or alternatively follow his face, we already know what he would be seeing, so focusing on itadori's reaction would actually work a lot better. You say it's not the angle or choreography, but I assure you it is, there isn't really any error in the animation. even if this was 60fps sakuga of a this exact walking animation that had stylization of the century on top of it, it would still look a bit off. DigiCat said: No way are the metro backgrounds fine, i am not talking about how simple they look, i am talking about them not being well blended with the rest of what's going on on screen Compare for example this scene in JJK2 vs this from Dekiru Neko (which background art/animation is of a similar style, mostly full CG cleancut) I'm talking exclusively about how well the background blends with the rest of the scene, not what action is happening in it (i tried to find ones with similar amount of detail in backgrounds) Put simply, Mappa is not the best at mixing 3d backgrounds into their show. This particular background is a downgrade from normal, because they were going for a 3d camera shot, and mappa is not as good as let's say wit or ufotable at doing those. If you look at the 2d backgrounds, which are most of the backgrounds from the last few episodes, they don't have this issue. Again, the problem with the scene is mappa's direction. Or to be very specific, a mix of direction, and lighting. They are doing something that they aren't the best at, so the scene looks somewhat off as a result. This new director really knows how do stuff like dynamic cuts, and framing, but movements like this seem to be the area he struggles with. Case and point, the scene I pointed out was also off even more so because of 2d characters walking through 3d environment and mappa being weak at doing that. Like, look at a scene like this 6:25 time stamp: https://zorox.to/watch/the-promised-neverland-r12q/ep-9 It's a similar shot, and the background is actually even less detail, but the way the camera moves, the lighting, the motion blur, it all just looks so much smoother. It's not because norman is animated any better, than itadori it's also not because the background is more detailed, it actually has less detail. the director just used them better. Also, on a ps: The example you gave: DigiCat said: JJK2 vs this from Dekiru Neko The second one looks far uglier to me. the background looks almost AI generated it's so out of place. I hate to say it, but despite not being a huge fan of the show, demon slayer is like the best example of this being done well:  I mean just look at the lighting. That's the main thing that makes the character feel so in there |
APolygons2Dec 13, 2023 12:49 AM
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Reply to Akutsun
@APolygons2 I should clarify a bit. The first arc of season 2 showing the backstory of Gojo Geto and everyone I really enjoyed and thought was very well done. Most of the issues I have with season 2 comes from the shibuya arc.
If you ask me, for something to be considered a great show, it has to do something to stand out form the crowd. Not only be well written but it has to to have a special something you cant get elsewhere. Something that gives the show its own identity. Something to make it unique. And I find that season 2 is anything but. Theres nothing special about it. Nothing you cant get elsewhere. I loved season 1 because it felt like it had so much potential. But as season 2 continues its shown that its just more genericness. I dont think season 2 is bad, not at all. But its just nothing very noteworthy.
If you ask me, for something to be considered a great show, it has to do something to stand out form the crowd. Not only be well written but it has to to have a special something you cant get elsewhere. Something that gives the show its own identity. Something to make it unique. And I find that season 2 is anything but. Theres nothing special about it. Nothing you cant get elsewhere. I loved season 1 because it felt like it had so much potential. But as season 2 continues its shown that its just more genericness. I dont think season 2 is bad, not at all. But its just nothing very noteworthy.
AkuyaSama said: You also mentioned nanami, and while he is more expressive than he was in season 1 thats about it. Hes just less stoic. No major changes. That just isn't true though. Read the section I wrote for him, he did have a lot of depth added to him this season. AkuyaSama said: Especially since hes the MAIN character. I would hold my horses for a bit longer. The whole sakuna everyone around him dying thing already massively challenged his ideals, and he has already had to revaluate a lot of his goals and beliefs. I do think he is going to be changed after this arc, but only time will tell. AkuyaSama said: I really loved season 1 and was very excited to see where this story goes. But watching shibuya, it never gave me that same WOW factor I got from season 1. and that's the weird part to me, cause ... Even if you argue that this season doesn't have the most amount of story beats and character developments.... It definitely has them MORE than s1. so how could it be less exciting when putting all the stakes on top of it as well. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
Reply to APolygons2
I'm obviously not saying there are no cgi scenes. But I am saying, 90% of the show (counting none fight scenes, if we went by fights alone it would be about 50-60%), is fully 2d. with the remaining 10% being a mix. but that doesn't really matter.
It looking bad or not is a whole different topic. But The vast majority of the scenes are either fully or mostly 2D.
DigiCat said:
Mix or full CG doesn't change the fact that a lot of scenes in Chainsaw Man form looked off
Mix or full CG doesn't change the fact that a lot of scenes in Chainsaw Man form looked off
hence this.
The whole it being 2d or not was just a random tangent, from when you said he is 90% cgi.
DigiCat said:
How is it purly a directing thing? It's not the camera angle i'm talking about, it's not the jumping motion i'm talkig about, it's the way the scene is animated
How is it purly a directing thing? It's not the camera angle i'm talking about, it's not the jumping motion i'm talkig about, it's the way the scene is animated
It is 100% a mix of choreography and camera angle. the choice of making a 2d character going through a 2d environment with a slowly following camera. specially at that specific angle and when walking down stairs is the reason the scene looks a bit unnatural. there is nothing wrong with how it's animated.
If itadaori ran that exact way, through a 3d background, it would always look off in the exact same way. maybe if the animation and background were superb enough, it could mask the semi-poor directing choice (again, I don't think it looks that bad). but that would be a "animation making up for the direction" kinda deal.
I think it would make more sense to have that scene be in first person, or alternatively follow his face, we already know what he would be seeing, so focusing on itadori's reaction would actually work a lot better.
You say it's not the angle or choreography, but I assure you it is, there isn't really any error in the animation. even if this was 60fps sakuga of a this exact walking animation that had stylization of the century on top of it, it would still look a bit off.
DigiCat said:
No way are the metro backgrounds fine, i am not talking about how simple they look, i am talking about them not being well blended with the rest of what's going on on screen
Compare for example this scene in JJK2 vs this from Dekiru Neko (which background art/animation is of a similar style, mostly full CG cleancut)
I'm talking exclusively about how well the background blends with the rest of the scene, not what action is happening in it (i tried to find ones with similar amount of detail in backgrounds)
No way are the metro backgrounds fine, i am not talking about how simple they look, i am talking about them not being well blended with the rest of what's going on on screen
Compare for example this scene in JJK2 vs this from Dekiru Neko (which background art/animation is of a similar style, mostly full CG cleancut)
I'm talking exclusively about how well the background blends with the rest of the scene, not what action is happening in it (i tried to find ones with similar amount of detail in backgrounds)
Put simply, Mappa is not the best at mixing 3d backgrounds into their show. This particular background is a downgrade from normal, because they were going for a 3d camera shot, and mappa is not as good as let's say wit or ufotable at doing those.
If you look at the 2d backgrounds, which are most of the backgrounds from the last few episodes, they don't have this issue.
Again, the problem with the scene is mappa's direction.
Or to be very specific, a mix of direction, and lighting.
They are doing something that they aren't the best at, so the scene looks somewhat off as a result.
This new director really knows how do stuff like dynamic cuts, and framing, but movements like this seem to be the area he struggles with. Case and point, the scene I pointed out was also off even more so because of 2d characters walking through 3d environment and mappa being weak at doing that.
Like, look at a scene like this 6:25 time stamp: https://zorox.to/watch/the-promised-neverland-r12q/ep-9
It's a similar shot, and the background is actually even less detail, but the way the camera moves, the lighting, the motion blur, it all just looks so much smoother.
It's not because norman is animated any better, than itadori it's also not because the background is more detailed, it actually has less detail.
the director just used them better.
Also, on a ps: The example you gave:
DigiCat said:
JJK2 vs this from Dekiru Neko
JJK2 vs this from Dekiru Neko
The second one looks far uglier to me. the background looks almost AI generated it's so out of place.
I hate to say it, but despite not being a huge fan of the show, demon slayer is like the best example of this being done well:
I mean just look at the lighting.
That's the main thing that makes the character feel so in there
APolygons2 said: 90% of the show I didn't say 90% of the show, i said 90% of Chainsaw Man's fights, which i admit is an exageration, still doesn't change the way it looks APolygons2 said: It is 100% a mix of choreography and camera angle. the choice of making a 2d character going through a 2d environment with a slowly following camera. specially at that specific angle and when walking down stairs is the reason the scene looks a bit unnatural. there is nothing wrong with how it's animated I've seen scenes with similar camera angles and yet they work perfectly and look natural (i'll give examples when something specific comes to mind), the movement itself is not unnatural APolygons2 said: If itadaori ran that exact way, through a 3d background He is running thru a 3D background, a 3D background which is not blended well with the way he's animated (first thing that makes the scene look off), + the way his jumping is animated (not the angle it's filmed in) it's stiff, like he's jumping on the spot while the background is zooming in APolygons2 said: Put simply, Mappa is not the best at mixing 3d backgrounds into their show. This particular background is a downgrade from normal, because they were going for a 3d camera shot, and mappa is not as good as let's say wit or ufotable at doing those Well we agree on something APolygons2 said: If you look at the 2d backgrounds, which are most of the backgrounds from the last few episodes, they don't have this issue True APolygons2 said: Again, the problem with the scene is mappa's direction NOOOO! You literally said it would look better with 2D background, so different animation, same camera angle, same movements, that is animation, the only direction influence might be the director specifically chose 3D over 2D, but the 3D or 2D still needs to be animated APolygons2 said: They are doing something that they aren't the best at, so the scene looks somewhat off as a result Exactly, they're doing something they're not the best at, with extreamly short time frames to do so, probably thinking this style of animation would save time, but it shows in the end result this wasn't the best desicsion APolygons2 said: Like, look at a scene like this 6:25 time stamp The background is also not very well blended, but Norman's movements are much more natural than Yuji's APolygons2 said: It's a similar shot, and the background is actually even less detail, but the way the camera moves, the lighting, the motion blur, it all just looks so much smoother I have no complaints about how detailed a background is, in fact, sometimes less is more (like in this case), but the main reason this scene looks better is because Norman is moving more naturally, the darker lighting also helps as it keeps the focus away from the backround and all on Norman APolygons2 said: It's not because norman is animated any better, than itadori it's also not because the background is more detailed, it actually has less detail. The background being less detaild actually helps this scene, but i disagree that Norman's movements being more natural have no effect on the scene looking better APolygons2 said: The second one looks far uglier to me. the background looks almost AI generated it's so out of place Really? I mean it's definitely not my favorite style of background, but i think it blends very well with the style the characters are drawn and animated in APolygons2 said: I hate to say it, but despite not being a huge fan of the show, demon slayer is like the best example of this being done well Demon Slayer is one of the few shows that manages to have contrasting styles for character and background art and make them look good together |
| The guy who made this post didn't like demon slayer apparently. So you're gatekeeping JJK in this post? You have your own opinion and taste. If other dislike it, let them be. Don't judge. I do believe people take story/chara/music/art style/ep execution into consideration not just animation alone. JJK issue is people comparing S2 to S1. |
| MALoween✟Mansion (2024) Candy Basket 🎃: |
Reply to TheMechaManiac
It's better to leave the normies be, at this point it's incredibly clear they're hypebeasts who will blindly listen to influencers. Whatever they tell is "good" is gospel to them. Same deal with animation, Kimetsu no Yaiba does have really good polish but in regards to animation itself it's soulless, you don't feel the labor put into it.
| @TheMechaManiac I don't think it's normies, but a minority of fans who latch out in their favorite anime whenever it gets criticized or criticizing a different anime. If I lash out on an anime, someone lash on me. That's why I just say my opinions with my irl friends. |
 |
Reply to Fuwa_san
The guy who made this post didn't like demon slayer apparently. So you're gatekeeping JJK in this post?
You have your own opinion and taste. If other dislike it, let them be. Don't judge.
I do believe people take story/chara/music/art style/ep execution into consideration not just animation alone. JJK issue is people comparing S2 to S1.
You have your own opinion and taste. If other dislike it, let them be. Don't judge.
I do believe people take story/chara/music/art style/ep execution into consideration not just animation alone. JJK issue is people comparing S2 to S1.
| @Fuwa_san How is saying people who think one of the most stunning and sakuga infested episodes ever made is garbage specifically in terms of animation are dumb.... gate keeping of all things lol how does any of what you said relate to me liking or disliking demon slayer? Frankly, I would hold this standard for myself, if thats what you are implying. if i ever said something as dumb as "demon slayer has bad animation" you can call me all the names you want. cause like the show or not, i ain't blind. |
APolygons2Dec 13, 2023 11:32 PM
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
| honestly? i'm not a battle shounen fan. I watch some of them but mostly i avoid them. Not the least of the reasons is that i'm not particularly impressed with the so-called "sakuga" moments from the anime fights. Take the OP's gif: all i see is a riot of insanely fast-paced images that kinda stop you from understanding what's going on. You're not sure who's winning, what was the impact of the blows, where the fight takes place (see the lack of backgrounds, camera is very focused on the bodies and faces of the fighters with almost no space for anything else). For the fans of the genre it probably makes your blood pump but for me, it just makes it harder to make sense of what exactly is going on. unpopular opinion but if i want to see a good animated fight where can i actually understand what's going on, i usually go for the western animation. Kind of like this: i can clearly see who's winning and who's losing, the background is always there so you can see what's going on, etc. For me, personally, the OP's gif proves nothing and provides no "sakuga" but maybe i'm just ignorant CGDCT trash. |
| For some people nothing animators can make will be good enough. They imagined what it would look like in their head while reading the manga and then when the animation doesn't 100% match what they pictured they get disappointed. |
Reply to Yuri_Goggleson
honestly? i'm not a battle shounen fan. I watch some of them but mostly i avoid them. Not the least of the reasons is that i'm not particularly impressed with the so-called "sakuga" moments from the anime fights. Take the OP's gif: all i see is a riot of insanely fast-paced images that kinda stop you from understanding what's going on. You're not sure who's winning, what was the impact of the blows, where the fight takes place (see the lack of backgrounds, camera is very focused on the bodies and faces of the fighters with almost no space for anything else). For the fans of the genre it probably makes your blood pump but for me, it just makes it harder to make sense of what exactly is going on.
unpopular opinion but if i want to see a good animated fight where can i actually understand what's going on, i usually go for the western animation. Kind of like this:
i can clearly see who's winning and who's losing, the background is always there so you can see what's going on, etc. For me, personally, the OP's gif proves nothing and provides no "sakuga" but maybe i'm just ignorant CGDCT trash.
unpopular opinion but if i want to see a good animated fight where can i actually understand what's going on, i usually go for the western animation. Kind of like this:
i can clearly see who's winning and who's losing, the background is always there so you can see what's going on, etc. For me, personally, the OP's gif proves nothing and provides no "sakuga" but maybe i'm just ignorant CGDCT trash.
| @Yuri_Goggleson First of all. VERY unfair example, kung-fu panda is one of the best of the best, and the second one I would argue is a damn (at least near) masterpiece. But also: Yuri_Goggleson said: honestly? i'm not a battle shounen fan. I watch some of them but mostly i avoid them. Not the least of the reasons is that i'm not particularly impressed with the so-called "sakuga" moments from the anime fights. Take the OP's gif: all i see is a riot of insanely fast-paced images that kinda stop you from understanding what's going on. You're not sure who's winning, what was the impact of the blows, where the fight takes place (see the lack of backgrounds, camera is very focused on the bodies and faces of the fighters with almost no space for anything else). For the fans of the genre it probably makes your blood pump but for me, it just makes it harder to make sense of what exactly is going on. The gif I send is switching between 5 different segments of the fight, of course it would be damn impossible to follow. The fight itself is also very flashy, but you can follow along as long as you somewhat focus. That said, the whole thing really depends on the show anyway, there are plenty of shounen fights that easier to follow perfectly. case and point jjk season 1 itself:   I do think there is a more "holy shit" factor in exchange for making it a bit harder to follow in season 2. But generally, I do think s1 has better fight choreography. which to be fair.... s1 had probably the best guy in the entire industry when it comes to hand to hand combat working it. I never expected s2 to match that level of action as soon as I knew the director had changed. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
| Well, regardless of what I said before, I have to admit that the most recent episode of JJK is one of the most beautifully drawn and animated episodes of the entire series. Definitely jumped to the top of my favorite episodes list. While I didn't hate the animation/art this season, I still preferred Season 1, But this, man, I have no words. |
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