My Dress-Up Darling anime Studio is Cloverworks

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I hope this will not be rushed.

Oct 12, 2021 6:38 AM

#3

crispycereal

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After watching wonder egg priority and 2nd season of promised neverland, I don't have much expectations

Oct 12, 2021 6:41 AM

#4

Swagernator

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So an average manga gets an average studio.

We sad because ?

Oct 12, 2021 6:46 AM

#5

Viktor507

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The people hating cloverGODworks... Really???

Oct 12, 2021 6:46 AM

#6

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Swagernator said:
So an average manga gets an average studio.

We sad because ?

The hell are you talking about? Even though they were known to skip content, they still have amazing visuals.

RMTWASHEREOct 12, 2021 7:05 AM

Oct 12, 2021 6:48 AM

#7

XNohaco2468

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I really don't think they will rushed it, look at Bunny Girl, Neverland S1... They are not rushed.
At the moment they only have 3 animes for next year (one for Winter, Shadows House S2 and this) +Shadows House could be on 2023 and I will say Summertime Render will be animated by them too

Oct 12, 2021 6:55 AM

#8

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crispycereal said:
After watching wonder egg priority and 2nd season of promised neverland, I don't have much expectations

That's the worst scenario, cause they make like 4 animes on that time. For TPN, the author is the one that want to rush it. After that chaos they also make shadows house which is pretty good. Shadows house anime also chance and cut some stuff from the Manga but it's because the author want it that way in order to wrapped up the 1st season nicely

Oct 12, 2021 7:04 AM

#9

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Viktor507 said:
The people hating cloverGODworks... Really???

Cause haters will hate. Cloverworks literally makes like 1 or 2 mistakes and people already acting like a monkey while mappa destroy God of highschool and makes a bunch of other shitty originals but no one remember any of it.

Oct 12, 2021 7:47 AM

#10

MegamiRem

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Cloverworks is a great studio, people complaining have no idea how anime industry works. I hope they have enough time and budget this time around to make a great adaptation.

Oct 12, 2021 7:57 AM

#11

crispycereal

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Dec 2020

307

RMTWASHERE said:

crispycereal said:
After watching wonder egg priority and 2nd season of promised neverland, I don't have much expectations

That's the worst scenario, cause they make like 4 animes on that time. For TPN, the author is the one that want to rush it. After that chaos they also make shadows house which is pretty good. Shadows house anime also chance and cut some stuff from the Manga but it's because the author want it that way in order to wrapped up the 1st season nicely

I haven't seen shadow house but I know, they can make a good anime if they want (like bunny girl senpai or the promised neverland s1). Hope they'll take their time and put some effort in it

Oct 12, 2021 8:38 AM

#12

zhennnc

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w. made an amazing work with bunny girl senpai and tpn s1. ppl hating on horimiya too but imo was a great adaptation.

Oct 12, 2021 9:54 AM

#13

Hebi_op

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502

Criticism behind Clowerworks makes no sense.
They did Bunny girl senpai, which was great.
They did Darling, which wasn't good but visually and all it was super fine.
They did Neverland s1, which was good enough.

then r...started to rage cuz
They did Horimiya entire manga in a single cour, in the volumes that they skipped absolutely NOTHING happens. NOTHING
They did Shadows house, which was great, and people cried for 2 original episodes, of course without even reading the manga.
They did Neverland 2 and Egg, which were real mess, for various reasons.

Now, i couldn't care less for Bisque anime since i dropped the manga, but the critisism is pathetic, much like when people accused Deen for Nanatsu animations, even tho it was very public the fact that in reality they didn't make it.

Oct 12, 2021 2:43 PM

#14

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crispycereal said:
After watching wonder egg priority and 2nd season of promised neverland, I don't have much expectations

you need to overreact to anything. WEP is good anime it ended on open ending. TPN s2 is rushed because the manga is finished and the producers mind you not studio wants to end it with reasons unknown but my guess is not profitable to make seasons because anime is business

Oct 12, 2021 9:31 PM

#15

crispycereal

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chriskor022 said:

crispycereal said:
After watching wonder egg priority and 2nd season of promised neverland, I don't have much expectations

you need to overreact to anything. WEP is good anime it ended on open ending. TPN s2 is rushed because the manga is finished and the producers mind you not studio wants to end it with reasons unknown but my guess is not profitable to make seasons because anime is business

I may have overreacted, but to be honest I didn't like WEP at all and I think they could have done a better job with TPN s2

Oct 12, 2021 9:43 PM

#16

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crispycereal said:

chriskor022 said:

you need to overreact to anything. WEP is good anime it ended on open ending. TPN s2 is rushed because the manga is finished and the producers mind you not studio wants to end it with reasons unknown but my guess is not profitable to make seasons because anime is business

I may have overreacted, but to be honest I didn't like WEP at all and I think they could have done a better job with TPN s2

They probably wanted to make TPN2 better, but the author OR the production committee (which is Aniplex) asked the studio to do otherwise. You really think Cloverworks want to fuck over their MOST successful series which is TPN S1 with garbage like TPN2 on purpose? It's like killing your golden goose, it makes no sense, absolutely NO SENSE to fuck over TPN2 unless either the author or the production (Aniplex) make the studio do so.

MegamiRem said:
Cloverworks is a great studio, people complaining have no idea how anime industry works. I hope they have enough time and budget this time around to make a great adaptation.

Pretty much this. People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

Oct 12, 2021 9:58 PM

#17

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crispycereal said:

chriskor022 said:

you need to overreact to anything. WEP is good anime it ended on open ending. TPN s2 is rushed because the manga is finished and the producers mind you not studio wants to end it with reasons unknown but my guess is not profitable to make seasons because anime is business

I may have overreacted, but to be honest I didn't like WEP at all and I think they could have done a better job with TPN s2

I said you are overreacting for little issue whatsoever. WEP is good produced anime. TPN s2 is producers wants to end it as soon as possible. Because manga is finished. This is not KnY that its profitable even the manga is finished. At the end of the day anime is business. Blaming studio even their new produce is tantamount of exxagerating. And you need to move on TPN because S1 is enough because it ends on satisfying end

Oct 12, 2021 10:28 PM

#18

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Judevin said:

MegamiRem said:
Cloverworks is a great studio, people complaining have no idea how anime industry works. I hope they have enough time and budget this time around to make a great adaptation.

Pretty much this. People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

What does it have to do with the industry though? Most of CloverWorks' anime turn to shit at the end. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. Why should I have high expectations for/like a studio that consistently has this problem?

Oct 12, 2021 10:38 PM

#19

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mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

Pretty much this. People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

What does it have to do with the industry though? Most of CloverWorks' anime turn to shit at the end. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. Why should I have high expectations for/like a studio that consistently has this problem?

Let's go with "Most of Cloverworks' anime" right

The only anime people have a complaint with so far are TPN2 and WEP's ending, is that MOST? Or is that just an extremely small proportion of anime that went wrong?

Cloverworks has also made
1. Bunny girl senpai
2. Darling in the Franxx
3. Persona 5 (collab with A-1)
4. Ace Attorney
5. Fairy Tail
6. The Promised Neverland S1 (which is their MOST successful anime)
7. Fate
8. Fugou Keiji
9. Horimiya
10. Wonder Egg Priority
11. Dakaichi
12. Shadows House
13. The Promised Neverland S2

But I've only ever heard of 2 of them having any issues - WEP's ending, and TPN2.

How do you call that "MOST". 2/13 is 15% and I didn't count over 20 of their total entries that were movies or music videos. Do you see the problem here?

People watched 2 anime, think they're bad and now all of studio is bad and their work is bad. But well, I shouldn't have expectations from people who consistently have a recency or hate-train bias either.

Oct 12, 2021 10:44 PM

#20

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mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

Pretty much this. People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

What does it have to do with the industry though? Most of CloverWorks' anime turn to shit at the end. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. Why should I have high expectations for/like a studio that consistently has this problem?

you need to give examples because your post is nonsense

Oct 12, 2021 11:11 PM

#21

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mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

Pretty much this. People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

What does it have to do with the industry though? Most of CloverWorks' anime turn to shit at the end. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. Why should I have high expectations for/like a studio that consistently has this problem?

You sounded like an average mappa fanboy. All studio have problem too though. It's because they ruin one of the best manga adaption, promise Neverland, everyone start to talk shit about them. Mappa ruins god of highschool, but because it's a Korean manga and a lot people didn't read it, also because it's was not that popular, everyone forget it in a second.

Oct 12, 2021 11:20 PM

#22

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Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

What does it have to do with the industry though? Most of CloverWorks' anime turn to shit at the end. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. Why should I have high expectations for/like a studio that consistently has this problem?

Let's go with "Most of Cloverworks' anime" right

The only anime people have a complaint with so far are TPN2 and WEP's ending, is that MOST? Or is that just an extremely small proportion of anime that went wrong?

Cloverworks has also made
1. Bunny girl senpai
2. Darling in the Franxx
3. Persona 5 (collab with A-1)
4. Ace Attorney
5. Fairy Tail
6. The Promised Neverland S1 (which is their MOST successful anime)
7. Fate
8. Fugou Keiji
9. Horimiya
10. Wonder Egg Priority
11. Dakaichi
12. Shadows House
13. The Promised Neverland S2

But I've only ever heard of 2 of them having any issues - WEP's ending, and TPN2.

How do you call that "MOST". 2/13 is 15% and I didn't count over 20 of their total entries that were movies or music videos. Do you see the problem here?

@chriskor022
I have heard the same thing about Darling in the Franxx, Horimiya (which I dropped apparently before it got bad), and Shadows House several times. Fugou Keiji also had an awful final episode that made me drop my score by two points.

Okay, I stand corrected, only 42% of all their anime (I count PN as one because it's one story) and 100% of their anime from the last two years got this specific criticism.

Why should I have hopes for an anime they produce to be great?

People watched 2 anime, think they're bad and now all of studio is bad and their work is bad. But well, I shouldn't have expectations from people who consistently have a recency or hate-train bias either.

If that was directed at me personally, I have to say that's just wrong. I like and dislike both old and new anime. When I try seasonals while they're airing, I usually try the ones that I have little expectations for, so I'm only biased toward hating new anime in that sense.

Oct 12, 2021 11:24 PM

#23

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RMTWASHERE said:

mazuchi said:

What does it have to do with the industry though? Most of CloverWorks' anime turn to shit at the end. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. Why should I have high expectations for/like a studio that consistently has this problem?

You sounded like an average mappa fanboy. All studio have problem too though. It's because they ruin one of the best manga adaption, promise Neverland, everyone start to talk shit about them. Mappa ruins god of highschool, but because it's a Korean manga and a lot people didn't read it, also because it's was not that popular, everyone forget it in a second.

Well, I'm not a Mappa fanboy and I dropped GoH, so I'm not sure what to respond...
Yes, all studios have problems, but some are worse than others.

Oct 12, 2021 11:28 PM

#24

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mazuchi said:
I have heard the same thing about Darling in the Franxx, Horimiya (which I dropped apparently before it got bad), and Shadows House several times. Fugou Keiji also had an awful final episode that made me drop my score by two points.

Franxx didn't have a terrible ending, it just wasn't something fans liked, it wasn't rushed or anything, it was just an ending that people didn't like. Subjective ending essentially, completely different from TPN2 which was rushed, and WEP which has an open ending.

Horimiya never got bad, it wasn't even rushed, they just cut all the filler content that the manga had because they wanted to wrap up the anime same time as the manga (both endings came out the exact same week too iirc - anime & manga). And it wasn't a bad show whatsoever, coming from someone that read the manga from day 1. Again, different from TPN2 or WEP.

Fugou Keiji is extremely subjective, the majority of the people absolutely love that show from what I've seen on twitter (western and japanese twitter). AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

Shadows House, the changes were made by the author, I literally translated the author's tweets, and even then the show wasn't bad at all. They changed the ending slightly and made it so that they can tie it back to the manga if the show ever gets a S2 based on sales, which it did. AND AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

I fail to understand the criticism based on subjective opinions, you didn't like the ending =/= they were objectively bad, that's just an opinion, your opinion.

mazuchi said:

People watched 2 anime, think they're bad and now all of studio is bad and their work is bad. But well, I shouldn't have expectations from people who consistently have a recency or hate-train bias either.

If that was directed at me personally, I have to say that's just wrong. I like and dislike both old and new anime. When I try seasonals while they're airing, I usually try the ones that I have little expectations for, so I'm only biased toward hating new anime in that sense.

Not personally you, but anyone that is led by recency bias, you included too obviously, but it wasn't aimed at you personally, just a general remark.

Oct 12, 2021 11:51 PM

#25

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@mazuchi

I have heard the same thing about Darling in the Franxx, Horimiya (which I dropped apparently before it got bad), and Shadows House several times. Fugou Keiji also had an awful final episode that made me drop my score by two points.

Okay, I stand corrected, only 42% of all their anime (I count PN as one because it's one story) and 100% of their anime from the last two years got this specific criticism.

Why should I have hopes for an anime they produce to be great?

So you judged it by rumors, that is not a reason to overreact. DITF watch it its good its full conclusive. And Horimiya likewise, you dont even know because you are gullible to rumors like reviews on MAL that its pure subjective that trolls to farm for likes. Fugou Keiji ends on good ending point, i dont lnow about awful but its flashy ending to the series.

And you watched TPN from their shows so I dont how you judged it like its legit. And what is criticisms for last 2 years because TPN s2 is the hot news.

Because you believe what the others says, and not you to form your conclusions. You dont even watch their anime to know if its good or not

Oct 13, 2021 12:02 AM

#26

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Judevin said:

mazuchi said:
I have heard the same thing about Darling in the Franxx, Horimiya (which I dropped apparently before it got bad), and Shadows House several times. Fugou Keiji also had an awful final episode that made me drop my score by two points.

Franxx didn't have a terrible ending, it just wasn't something fans liked, it wasn't rushed or anything, it was just an ending that people didn't like. Subjective ending essentially, completely different from TPN2 which was rushed, and WEP which has an open ending.

Horimiya never got bad, it wasn't even rushed, they just cut all the filler content that the manga had because they wanted to wrap up the anime same time as the manga (both endings came out the exact same week too iirc - anime & manga). And it wasn't a bad show whatsoever, coming from someone that read the manga from day 1. Again, different from TPN2 or WEP.

Fugou Keiji is extremely subjective, the majority of the people absolutely love that show from what I've seen on twitter (western and japanese twitter). AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

Shadows House, the changes were made by the author, I literally translated the author's tweets, and even then the show wasn't bad at all. They changed the ending slightly and made it so that they can tie it back to the manga if the show ever gets a S2 based on sales, which it did. AND AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

I fail to understand the criticism based on subjective opinions, you didn't like the ending =/= they were objectively bad, that's just an opinion, your opinion.

Obviously all of it is subjective. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise. An ending is bad if

it just wasn't something fans liked

(and it doesn't have to have the exact same problem as PN and WEP) which is true for a lot of people with CloverWorks' anime and it's true for me for all the ones that I watched from them.
CloverWorks fans make it sound like all criticism is invalid because

they still have amazing visuals.

(that's not everything anime is about) and

People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

(explain how knowledge about production committees makes CloverWorks anime suddenly good)

Oct 13, 2021 12:08 AM

#27

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mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

Franxx didn't have a terrible ending, it just wasn't something fans liked, it wasn't rushed or anything, it was just an ending that people didn't like. Subjective ending essentially, completely different from TPN2 which was rushed, and WEP which has an open ending.

Horimiya never got bad, it wasn't even rushed, they just cut all the filler content that the manga had because they wanted to wrap up the anime same time as the manga (both endings came out the exact same week too iirc - anime & manga). And it wasn't a bad show whatsoever, coming from someone that read the manga from day 1. Again, different from TPN2 or WEP.

Fugou Keiji is extremely subjective, the majority of the people absolutely love that show from what I've seen on twitter (western and japanese twitter). AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

Shadows House, the changes were made by the author, I literally translated the author's tweets, and even then the show wasn't bad at all. They changed the ending slightly and made it so that they can tie it back to the manga if the show ever gets a S2 based on sales, which it did. AND AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

I fail to understand the criticism based on subjective opinions, you didn't like the ending =/= they were objectively bad, that's just an opinion, your opinion.

Obviously all of it is subjective. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise. An ending is bad if

it just wasn't something fans liked

(and it doesn't have to have the exact same problem as PN and WEP) which is true for a lot of people with CloverWorks' anime and it's true for me for all the ones that I watched from them.
CloverWorks fans make it sound like all criticism is invalid because

they still have amazing visuals.

(that's not everything anime is about) and

People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

(explain how knowledge about production committees makes CloverWorks anime suddenly good)

But then that just brings you to a moot point, all of the shows you mentioned did extremely well outside of MAL, like DitF did well commercially and is still EXTREMELY popular because of Zero-Two, Fugou Keiji is big in Japan and the west, Horimiya did well both in west and in Japan and even on MAL, Shadows House's sales went up almost 4x after the anime, and Japanese fans liked the anime, so none of the shows were bad. Subjectively speaking, the endings sucked for you sure, but the majority loved it. It's just MAL that didn't like some anime, then that means that us discussing any of this just isn't valid, because the shows even with all their bad endings were still a hit with fans and were a hit commercially.

It's the same criticism that isekai shows get, MAL thinks they're shit, but they do well commercially and do well with fans, and get a S2. So technically, from the broader perspective, we once again arrive at the same conclusion, TPN2 and WEP did not do good with fans anywhere, TPN2 still brought in sales for the manga and anime of course, WEP didn't. But all the other Cloverworks anime DID, so the studio can't be called bad. Just simple logic here.

Oct 13, 2021 12:12 AM

#28

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561871

chriskor022 said:
@mazuchi

I have heard the same thing about Darling in the Franxx, Horimiya (which I dropped apparently before it got bad), and Shadows House several times. Fugou Keiji also had an awful final episode that made me drop my score by two points.

Okay, I stand corrected, only 42% of all their anime (I count PN as one because it's one story) and 100% of their anime from the last two years got this specific criticism.

Why should I have hopes for an anime they produce to be great?

So you judged it by rumors, that is not a reason to overreact. DITF watch it its good its full conclusive. And Horimiya likewise, you dont even know because you are gullible to rumors like reviews on MAL that its pure subjective that trolls to farm for likes. Fugou Keiji ends on good ending point, i dont lnow about awful but its flashy ending to the series.

And you watched TPN from their shows so I dont how you judged it like its legit. And what is criticisms for last 2 years because TPN s2 is the hot news.

Because you believe what the others says, and not you to form your conclusions. You dont even watch their anime to know if its good or not

Why should I not believe when several people tell me the same very specific criticism about anime from a studio that I have seen do this three times?

Oct 13, 2021 12:17 AM

#29

NicDwolfwood

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May 2019

320

Eh, Could have been worse. Cloverworks is a good studio even if they've had mixed results lately.

I guess if I have any reservations, is whether this is gonna be a 1 and done. The story hasn't even reached what you could consider a midway point, let alone and ending.

Oct 13, 2021 12:26 AM

#30

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Jul 2018

561871

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

Obviously all of it is subjective. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise. An ending is bad if

(and it doesn't have to have the exact same problem as PN and WEP) which is true for a lot of people with CloverWorks' anime and it's true for me for all the ones that I watched from them.
CloverWorks fans make it sound like all criticism is invalid because

(that's not everything anime is about) and

(explain how knowledge about production committees makes CloverWorks anime suddenly good)

But then that just brings you to a moot point, all of the shows you mentioned did extremely well outside of MAL, like DitF did well commercially and is still EXTREMELY popular because of Zero-Two, Fugou Keiji is big in Japan and the west, Horimiya did well both in west and in Japan and even on MAL, Shadows House's sales went up almost 4x after the anime, and Japanese fans liked the anime, so none of the shows were bad. Subjectively speaking, the endings sucked for you sure, but the majority loved it. It's just MAL that didn't like some anime, then that means that us discussing any of this just isn't valid, because the shows even with all their bad endings were still a hit with fans and were a hit commercially.

It's the same criticism that isekai shows get, MAL thinks they're shit, but they do well commercially and do well with fans, and get a S2. So technically, from the broader perspective, we once again arrive at the same conclusion, TPN2 and WEP did not do good with fans anywhere, TPN2 still brought in sales for the manga and anime of course, WEP didn't. But all the other Cloverworks anime DID, so the studio can't be called bad. Just simple logic here.

Okay, I didn't bring my point across correctly. I'm not talking about fans as a whole or commercial success. Anime and their endings are subjectively good or bad to every individual person, the amount of people leaning either way doesn't matter.

My problem and the reason why I quoted you in the first place was that CloverWorks fans dismiss any negative opinion about the studio because they have good animation, and because most of their failures are due to author or production committee decisions. Which is stupid, their anime are still (subjectively) bad.

Oct 13, 2021 12:44 AM

#31

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Mar 2020

2914

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:
I have heard the same thing about Darling in the Franxx, Horimiya (which I dropped apparently before it got bad), and Shadows House several times. Fugou Keiji also had an awful final episode that made me drop my score by two points.

Franxx didn't have a terrible ending, it just wasn't something fans liked, it wasn't rushed or anything, it was just an ending that people didn't like. Subjective ending essentially, completely different from TPN2 which was rushed, and WEP which has an open ending.

Horimiya never got bad, it wasn't even rushed, they just cut all the filler content that the manga had because they wanted to wrap up the anime same time as the manga (both endings came out the exact same week too iirc - anime & manga). And it wasn't a bad show whatsoever, coming from someone that read the manga from day 1. Again, different from TPN2 or WEP.

Fugou Keiji is extremely subjective, the majority of the people absolutely love that show from what I've seen on twitter (western and japanese twitter). AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

Shadows House, the changes were made by the author, I literally translated the author's tweets, and even then the show wasn't bad at all. They changed the ending slightly and made it so that they can tie it back to the manga if the show ever gets a S2 based on sales, which it did. AND AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

I fail to understand the criticism based on subjective opinions, you didn't like the ending =/= they were objectively bad, that's just an opinion, your opinion.

Obviously all of it is subjective. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise. An ending is bad if

it just wasn't something fans liked

(and it doesn't have to have the exact same problem as PN and WEP) which is true for a lot of people with CloverWorks' anime and it's true for me for all the ones that I watched from them.
CloverWorks fans make it sound like all criticism is invalid because

they still have amazing visuals.

(that's not everything anime is about) and

People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

(explain how knowledge about production committees makes CloverWorks anime suddenly good)

But then that just brings you to a moot point, all of the shows you mentioned did extremely well outside of MAL, like DitF did well commercially and is still EXTREMELY popular because of Zero-Two, Fugou Keiji is big in Japan and the west, Horimiya did well both in west and in Japan and even on MAL, Shadows House's sales went up almost 4x after the anime, and Japanese fans liked the anime, so none of the shows were bad. Subjectively speaking, the endings sucked for you sure, but the majority loved it. It's just MAL that didn't like some anime, then that means that us discussing any of this just isn't valid, because the shows even with all their bad endings were still a hit with fans and were a hit commercially.

It's the same criticism that isekai shows get, MAL thinks they're shit, but they do well commercially and do well with fans, and get a S2. So technically, from the broader perspective, we once again arrive at the same conclusion, TPN2 and WEP did not do good with fans anywhere, TPN2 still brought in sales for the manga and anime of course, WEP didn't. But all the other Cloverworks anime DID, so the studio can't be called bad. Just simple logic here.

Okay, I didn't bring my point across correctly. I'm not talking about fans as a whole or commercial success. Anime and their endings are subjectively good or bad to every individual person, the amount of people leaning either way doesn't matter.

My problem and the reason why I quoted you in the first place was that CloverWorks fans dismiss any negative opinion about the studio because they have good animation, and because most of their failures are due to author or production committee decisions. Which is stupid, their anime are still (subjectively) bad.

I think criticism is valid, people can criticize writing in the shows, the endings, I do too, but at least imo, saying that the studio only makes subjectively bad anime just doesn't hold water, considering that the majority viewers loved all of their shows apart from TPN2 and WEP, they just can't be called subjectively bad if majority likes something, MAL essentially becomes the unpopular opinion more than anything.

Either way I hope Sono Bisque and Akebi Sailor both turn out good, and Aniplex doesn't fuck either of them over and let Cloverworks actually adapt the whole series like TPN S1 or Bunny girl senpai.

Oct 13, 2021 12:45 AM

#32

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Jul 2016

1695

mazuchi said:

chriskor022 said:
@mazuchi

So you judged it by rumors, that is not a reason to overreact. DITF watch it its good its full conclusive. And Horimiya likewise, you dont even know because you are gullible to rumors like reviews on MAL that its pure subjective that trolls to farm for likes. Fugou Keiji ends on good ending point, i dont lnow about awful but its flashy ending to the series.

And you watched TPN from their shows so I dont how you judged it like its legit. And what is criticisms for last 2 years because TPN s2 is the hot news.

Because you believe what the others says, and not you to form your conclusions. You dont even watch their anime to know if its good or not

Why should I not believe when several people tell me the same very specific criticism about anime from a studio that I have seen do this three times?

and what the criticism because youre just gullible and cant make your own opinion of said anime. The several people is not that many because mostly they dont like said anime example haters. You dont believe what they said because its full of bias that dont have constructed reason. Or full of buzzwords.

The Fugou Keiji for me they handle both the protag there characters and yes its a bishounen because of character designs. They attract the other viewers. But its a police comedy series and flashy because of the story of detective that uses power of money. Its a fun series

Oct 13, 2021 12:46 AM

#33

William03

Offline

Jun 2019

191

@judevin @chriskor022 at this point, maybe you just have to leave him alone

ok anw regarding the thread, Cloverworks, yes, at first when i heard this manga is getting an anime adaptation (i read the manga) i guessed it is either A-1 Pictures or Cloverworks will take this and for all of you who hate their recent work, how can you hate a studio by just their latest work? you just want to forget all of the good anime they have made?

Oct 13, 2021 12:58 AM

#34

Offline

Jul 2018

561871

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:
I have heard the same thing about Darling in the Franxx, Horimiya (which I dropped apparently before it got bad), and Shadows House several times. Fugou Keiji also had an awful final episode that made me drop my score by two points.

Franxx didn't have a terrible ending, it just wasn't something fans liked, it wasn't rushed or anything, it was just an ending that people didn't like. Subjective ending essentially, completely different from TPN2 which was rushed, and WEP which has an open ending.

Horimiya never got bad, it wasn't even rushed, they just cut all the filler content that the manga had because they wanted to wrap up the anime same time as the manga (both endings came out the exact same week too iirc - anime & manga). And it wasn't a bad show whatsoever, coming from someone that read the manga from day 1. Again, different from TPN2 or WEP.

Fugou Keiji is extremely subjective, the majority of the people absolutely love that show from what I've seen on twitter (western and japanese twitter). AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

Shadows House, the changes were made by the author, I literally translated the author's tweets, and even then the show wasn't bad at all. They changed the ending slightly and made it so that they can tie it back to the manga if the show ever gets a S2 based on sales, which it did. AND AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

I fail to understand the criticism based on subjective opinions, you didn't like the ending =/= they were objectively bad, that's just an opinion, your opinion.

Obviously all of it is subjective. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise. An ending is bad if

it just wasn't something fans liked

(and it doesn't have to have the exact same problem as PN and WEP) which is true for a lot of people with CloverWorks' anime and it's true for me for all the ones that I watched from them.
CloverWorks fans make it sound like all criticism is invalid because

they still have amazing visuals.

(that's not everything anime is about) and

People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

(explain how knowledge about production committees makes CloverWorks anime suddenly good)

But then that just brings you to a moot point, all of the shows you mentioned did extremely well outside of MAL, like DitF did well commercially and is still EXTREMELY popular because of Zero-Two, Fugou Keiji is big in Japan and the west, Horimiya did well both in west and in Japan and even on MAL, Shadows House's sales went up almost 4x after the anime, and Japanese fans liked the anime, so none of the shows were bad. Subjectively speaking, the endings sucked for you sure, but the majority loved it. It's just MAL that didn't like some anime, then that means that us discussing any of this just isn't valid, because the shows even with all their bad endings were still a hit with fans and were a hit commercially.

It's the same criticism that isekai shows get, MAL thinks they're shit, but they do well commercially and do well with fans, and get a S2. So technically, from the broader perspective, we once again arrive at the same conclusion, TPN2 and WEP did not do good with fans anywhere, TPN2 still brought in sales for the manga and anime of course, WEP didn't. But all the other Cloverworks anime DID, so the studio can't be called bad. Just simple logic here.

Okay, I didn't bring my point across correctly. I'm not talking about fans as a whole or commercial success. Anime and their endings are subjectively good or bad to every individual person, the amount of people leaning either way doesn't matter.

My problem and the reason why I quoted you in the first place was that CloverWorks fans dismiss any negative opinion about the studio because they have good animation, and because most of their failures are due to author or production committee decisions. Which is stupid, their anime are still (subjectively) bad.

I think criticism is valid, people can criticize writing in the shows, the endings, I do too, but at least imo, saying that the studio only makes subjectively bad anime just doesn't hold water, considering that the majority viewers loved all of their shows apart from TPN2 and WEP, they just can't be called subjectively bad if majority likes something, MAL essentially becomes the unpopular opinion more than anything.

What do you mean they can't be called subjectively bad lol? There is a true dichotomy between objectivity and subjectivity, and just because the majority has a certain opinion doesn't make it objective. (think about Nazi Germany if you're not convinced)

Either way I hope Sono Bisque and Akebi Sailor both turn out good, and Aniplex doesn't fuck either of them over and let Cloverworks actually adapt the whole series like TPN S1 or Bunny girl senpai.

Yeah, I hope so too of course.

Oct 13, 2021 1:08 AM

#35

Offline

Jul 2018

561871

chriskor022 said:

mazuchi said:

Why should I not believe when several people tell me the same very specific criticism about anime from a studio that I have seen do this three times?

and what the criticism because youre just gullible and cant make your own opinion of said anime. The several people is not that many because mostly they dont like said anime example haters. You dont believe what they said because its full of bias that dont have constructed reason. Or full of buzzwords.

I think me believing them is justified for the reasons I stated in my previous reply, but you may think of me as gullible if you want.

Oct 13, 2021 1:09 AM

#36

Offline

Mar 2020

2914

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:
I have heard the same thing about Darling in the Franxx, Horimiya (which I dropped apparently before it got bad), and Shadows House several times. Fugou Keiji also had an awful final episode that made me drop my score by two points.

Franxx didn't have a terrible ending, it just wasn't something fans liked, it wasn't rushed or anything, it was just an ending that people didn't like. Subjective ending essentially, completely different from TPN2 which was rushed, and WEP which has an open ending.

Horimiya never got bad, it wasn't even rushed, they just cut all the filler content that the manga had because they wanted to wrap up the anime same time as the manga (both endings came out the exact same week too iirc - anime & manga). And it wasn't a bad show whatsoever, coming from someone that read the manga from day 1. Again, different from TPN2 or WEP.

Fugou Keiji is extremely subjective, the majority of the people absolutely love that show from what I've seen on twitter (western and japanese twitter). AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

Shadows House, the changes were made by the author, I literally translated the author's tweets, and even then the show wasn't bad at all. They changed the ending slightly and made it so that they can tie it back to the manga if the show ever gets a S2 based on sales, which it did. AND AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

I fail to understand the criticism based on subjective opinions, you didn't like the ending =/= they were objectively bad, that's just an opinion, your opinion.

Obviously all of it is subjective. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise. An ending is bad if

it just wasn't something fans liked

(and it doesn't have to have the exact same problem as PN and WEP) which is true for a lot of people with CloverWorks' anime and it's true for me for all the ones that I watched from them.
CloverWorks fans make it sound like all criticism is invalid because

they still have amazing visuals.

(that's not everything anime is about) and

People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

(explain how knowledge about production committees makes CloverWorks anime suddenly good)

But then that just brings you to a moot point, all of the shows you mentioned did extremely well outside of MAL, like DitF did well commercially and is still EXTREMELY popular because of Zero-Two, Fugou Keiji is big in Japan and the west, Horimiya did well both in west and in Japan and even on MAL, Shadows House's sales went up almost 4x after the anime, and Japanese fans liked the anime, so none of the shows were bad. Subjectively speaking, the endings sucked for you sure, but the majority loved it. It's just MAL that didn't like some anime, then that means that us discussing any of this just isn't valid, because the shows even with all their bad endings were still a hit with fans and were a hit commercially.

It's the same criticism that isekai shows get, MAL thinks they're shit, but they do well commercially and do well with fans, and get a S2. So technically, from the broader perspective, we once again arrive at the same conclusion, TPN2 and WEP did not do good with fans anywhere, TPN2 still brought in sales for the manga and anime of course, WEP didn't. But all the other Cloverworks anime DID, so the studio can't be called bad. Just simple logic here.

Okay, I didn't bring my point across correctly. I'm not talking about fans as a whole or commercial success. Anime and their endings are subjectively good or bad to every individual person, the amount of people leaning either way doesn't matter.

My problem and the reason why I quoted you in the first place was that CloverWorks fans dismiss any negative opinion about the studio because they have good animation, and because most of their failures are due to author or production committee decisions. Which is stupid, their anime are still (subjectively) bad.

I think criticism is valid, people can criticize writing in the shows, the endings, I do too, but at least imo, saying that the studio only makes subjectively bad anime just doesn't hold water, considering that the majority viewers loved all of their shows apart from TPN2 and WEP, they just can't be called subjectively bad if majority likes something, MAL essentially becomes the unpopular opinion more than anything.

What do you mean they can't be called subjectively bad lol? There is a true dichotomy between objectivity and subjectivity, and just because the majority has a certain opinion doesn't make it objective. (think about Nazi Germany if you're not convinced)

Conversation about anime and conversation about Nazi Germany, jesus fuck.

But either way, going with your point, Cloverworks makes neither good anime nor bad anime, they just make anime. Majority of the fans consider them good which sure, doesn't make them objectively good, but Cloverworks isn't committing genocide condemned by the rest of the majority of the world, so they can't be called objectively bad. Literally everything is subjectively good or bad going by your viewpoint. I think your opinion is worse than dogshit, my subjective opinion, you can't argue with it, because it is subjective. Hence, we come once again to a moot point.

But it's 1am, and I have work in the morning so I have to go to sleep. So I'm just gonna leave it at Cloverworks makes good anime that according to majority of the people are subjectively good, this is also reflected by their MAL scores, are they objectively good/bad? Certainly not. But compared to Nazi Germany whose actions were condemned by majority of the world and only the minority which were the Axis powers believed them to be good, Cloverworks is considered good by Japan and elsewhere, which makes your and a few other MAL people's opinions a minority. Does that mean you are making yourself equivalent to Nazi Germany? Fuck do I know but frankly I am too tired to figure it out. So goodnight.

Oct 13, 2021 1:13 AM

#37

Offline

Jul 2016

1695

mazuchi said:

chriskor022 said:

and what the criticism because youre just gullible and cant make your own opinion of said anime. The several people is not that many because mostly they dont like said anime example haters. You dont believe what they said because its full of bias that dont have constructed reason. Or full of buzzwords.

I think me believing them is justified for the reasons I stated in my previous reply, but you may think of me as gullible if you want.

nothing wrong with that, but believing and not watching then judged it bad is not good. Because you will not enjoyed anime much more. Because you easily swayed by opinions that is subjectively buzzwords. And yes that behaviour is gullible imo

Oct 13, 2021 1:15 AM

#38

Offline

Jul 2018

561871

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:

Judevin said:

mazuchi said:
I have heard the same thing about Darling in the Franxx, Horimiya (which I dropped apparently before it got bad), and Shadows House several times. Fugou Keiji also had an awful final episode that made me drop my score by two points.

Franxx didn't have a terrible ending, it just wasn't something fans liked, it wasn't rushed or anything, it was just an ending that people didn't like. Subjective ending essentially, completely different from TPN2 which was rushed, and WEP which has an open ending.

Horimiya never got bad, it wasn't even rushed, they just cut all the filler content that the manga had because they wanted to wrap up the anime same time as the manga (both endings came out the exact same week too iirc - anime & manga). And it wasn't a bad show whatsoever, coming from someone that read the manga from day 1. Again, different from TPN2 or WEP.

Fugou Keiji is extremely subjective, the majority of the people absolutely love that show from what I've seen on twitter (western and japanese twitter). AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

Shadows House, the changes were made by the author, I literally translated the author's tweets, and even then the show wasn't bad at all. They changed the ending slightly and made it so that they can tie it back to the manga if the show ever gets a S2 based on sales, which it did. AND AGAIN different from TPN2 or WEP.

I fail to understand the criticism based on subjective opinions, you didn't like the ending =/= they were objectively bad, that's just an opinion, your opinion.

Obviously all of it is subjective. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise. An ending is bad if

it just wasn't something fans liked

(and it doesn't have to have the exact same problem as PN and WEP) which is true for a lot of people with CloverWorks' anime and it's true for me for all the ones that I watched from them.
CloverWorks fans make it sound like all criticism is invalid because

they still have amazing visuals.

(that's not everything anime is about) and

People talk shit about the studio when they know nothing about how the industry as a whole works.

(explain how knowledge about production committees makes CloverWorks anime suddenly good)

But then that just brings you to a moot point, all of the shows you mentioned did extremely well outside of MAL, like DitF did well commercially and is still EXTREMELY popular because of Zero-Two, Fugou Keiji is big in Japan and the west, Horimiya did well both in west and in Japan and even on MAL, Shadows House's sales went up almost 4x after the anime, and Japanese fans liked the anime, so none of the shows were bad. Subjectively speaking, the endings sucked for you sure, but the majority loved it. It's just MAL that didn't like some anime, then that means that us discussing any of this just isn't valid, because the shows even with all their bad endings were still a hit with fans and were a hit commercially.

It's the same criticism that isekai shows get, MAL thinks they're shit, but they do well commercially and do well with fans, and get a S2. So technically, from the broader perspective, we once again arrive at the same conclusion, TPN2 and WEP did not do good with fans anywhere, TPN2 still brought in sales for the manga and anime of course, WEP didn't. But all the other Cloverworks anime DID, so the studio can't be called bad. Just simple logic here.

Okay, I didn't bring my point across correctly. I'm not talking about fans as a whole or commercial success. Anime and their endings are subjectively good or bad to every individual person, the amount of people leaning either way doesn't matter.

My problem and the reason why I quoted you in the first place was that CloverWorks fans dismiss any negative opinion about the studio because they have good animation, and because most of their failures are due to author or production committee decisions. Which is stupid, their anime are still (subjectively) bad.

I think criticism is valid, people can criticize writing in the shows, the endings, I do too, but at least imo, saying that the studio only makes subjectively bad anime just doesn't hold water, considering that the majority viewers loved all of their shows apart from TPN2 and WEP, they just can't be called subjectively bad if majority likes something, MAL essentially becomes the unpopular opinion more than anything.

What do you mean they can't be called subjectively bad lol? There is a true dichotomy between objectivity and subjectivity, and just because the majority has a certain opinion doesn't make it objective. (think about Nazi Germany if you're not convinced)

Conversation about anime and conversation about Nazi Germany, jesus fuck.

But either way, going with your point, Cloverworks makes neither good anime nor bad anime, they just make anime. Majority of the fans consider them good which sure, doesn't make them objectively good, but Cloverworks isn't committing genocide condemned by the rest of the majority of the world, so they can't be called objectively bad. Literally everything is subjectively good or bad going by your viewpoint. I think your opinion is worse than dogshit, my subjective opinion, you can't argue with it, because it is subjective. Hence, we come once again to a moot point.

But it's 1am, and I have work in the morning so I have to go to sleep. So I'm just gonna leave it at Cloverworks makes good anime that according to majority of the people are subjectively good, this is also reflected by their MAL scores, are they objectively good/bad? Certainly not. But compared to Nazi Germany whose actions were condemned by majority of the world and only the minority which were the Axis powers believed them to be good, Cloverworks is considered good by Japan and elsewhere, which makes your and a few other MAL people's opinions a minority. Does that mean you are making yourself equivalent to Nazi Germany? Fuck do I know but frankly I am too tired to figure it out. So goodnight.

What I wanted to say was that

many people hate jews => jews are objectively bad

is a wrong inference, just like

many people like CloverWorks anime => CloverWorks anime are objectively good

Again I didn't bring my point across well, sorry for that.

Well, we're not getting anywhere, so good night.

removed-userOct 13, 2021 1:28 AM

Oct 13, 2021 1:33 AM

#39

Offline

Jul 2018

561871

chriskor022 said:

mazuchi said:

I think me believing them is justified for the reasons I stated in my previous reply, but you may think of me as gullible if you want.

nothing wrong with that, but believing and not watching then judged it bad is not good. Because you will not enjoyed anime much more. Because you easily swayed by opinions that is subjectively buzzwords. And yes that behaviour is gullible imo

Don't worry, I always try to go into any anime with an open mind. Of course my opinion on the anime we're talking about isn't final until I've seen them myself.

Oct 13, 2021 1:36 AM

#40

Offline

Jul 2016

1695

mazuchi said:

chriskor022 said:

nothing wrong with that, but believing and not watching then judged it bad is not good. Because you will not enjoyed anime much more. Because you easily swayed by opinions that is subjectively buzzwords. And yes that behaviour is gullible imo

Don't worry, I always try to go into any anime with an open mind. Of course my opinion on the anime we're talking about isn't final until I've seen them myself.

I mean its okay to hear the feedback of others, but its more okay to judged it by your opinion. Because its fun to know different anime and judged it accordingly

Oct 14, 2021 7:11 PM

#41

HDR_JPTFM

Offline

Feb 2020

294

People hate on cloverworks for no reason. I’m terms of visuals they are some of the best out there. Wonder egg was an original so what do you expect, and tpn s2 was the authors fault. This is going to be great.

Oct 14, 2021 7:46 PM

#42

Antagonized

うまぴょい伝説

Offline

May 2017

983

As I said in the other thread, Cloverworks alongside Lerche and Lidenfilms were among my top picks as potential studios for Sono Bisque. Despite people claiming that Shadows House was "botched" as well as TPN I'm still hopefull for a better adaptation.

If I have to guess the seiyuu for the anime this is my list

Mayuri Shimabukuro as Marin
Yamashita Seiichirou as Gojou
Oomori Nichika as Sajuna
Ai Kayano as Shinju

AntagonizedOct 14, 2021 8:08 PM

Oct 17, 2021 12:32 AM

#43

subahokke

Offline

Dec 2020

1612

another good series going to be severely ruined by cloverworks! excited.

Oct 17, 2021 4:19 AM

#44

Offline

Jul 2016

1695

subahokke said:
another good series going to be severely ruined by cloverworks! excited.

then you gonna be disappointed, because its not ruined

Oct 20, 2021 6:26 AM

#45

Hitoribotchan

Offline

Jun 2019

439

LOL, for SOL type anime. I think Cloverwork can make good show
Just like Slow Start or Bunny Senpai.

Oct 20, 2021 6:27 AM

#46

Hitoribotchan

Offline

Jun 2019

439

Sorry Double Post

Oct 24, 2021 7:32 PM

#47

Great_Vegetables

Offline

May 2019

48

hope they don't mess this up

Oct 25, 2021 11:26 AM

#48

Phoenixfalconer

Offline

Jan 2020

181

BigPPFumiya said:
Source: https://twitter.com/MangaMoguraRE/status/1447911746245701636?t=akTdlScZjFbnwEEvVVbtDw&s=19

I am really worried about it because it's Cloverworks. I don't have much hope in Cloverworks due to their recent works.

i dont think its fair to lose trust in them over a few shows they ahve done plently good and no matter whjat at least they always animated nicely

Nov 11, 2021 10:10 AM

#49

11_BlueSky

Offline

Apr 2020

113

RMTWASHERE said:

mazuchi said:

What does it have to do with the industry though? Most of CloverWorks' anime turn to shit at the end. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. Why should I have high expectations for/like a studio that consistently has this problem?

You sounded like an average mappa fanboy. All studio have problem too though. It's because they ruin one of the best manga adaption, promise Neverland, everyone start to talk shit about them. Mappa ruins god of highschool, but because it's a Korean manga and a lot people didn't read it, also because it's was not that popular, everyone forget it in a second.

it's cruncyroll who ruined the the adaptation not mappa lol. Mappa did a amazing job with the anime production. I'm really worried about this cosplay series adaptation cuz it's produced by aniplex. They could ruin it.

11_BlueSkyNov 11, 2021 10:13 AM

Nov 11, 2021 4:36 PM

#50