Attack on Titan
| I just finished, and though I didn't love the final battle and the weird way no one hated Eren nor care for the little glowing spine worm, but like, what was so bad about it? It worked and was alright, even if it wasn't mindblowing or unexpected. For one, I really liked how Eren failed in the end to end all war by making himself the one shared enemy. Also I really like how Eren's stoic facade falls apart similarly to what happened after Sasha in the airboat, and how the ending makes it so that they don't need titan solutions to human issues, but human solutions (i.e. diplomacy). Even with the extra 8 pages with Ymir and the future adding even more, why do people hate this? edit: also it's cool how titans and the desire for life are intertwined 2nd edit: was I the only one who caught this? Everyone keeps saying Eren secretly feeling bad about cutting off his friends was out of character. Like there’s no way this guy was actually just a heartless determined sociopath, he’s a hurt child in over his head. Something I noticed while watching S4 was that the scene where Eren lies that Mikasa’s headaches (probably just a brain disease or a result of physical/mental trauma) and beats up Armin had parallels to a person preparing for suicide by cutting off their loved ones, so that they won’t feel bad about the death. It’s very clearly that, he’s putting up a front to hide how bad it makes him feel. And the way he apologizes in tears to the children he’ll have to kill—that’s not “I will be killing you soon anyway,” it’s “I’m fated to kill you, I’m so sorry I wish it could different but I’ll try to make the most of this fate” So I don’t really see how his obviously fake facade slipping once he’s defeated and proven his efforts and sins meaningless and breaking down over being forgotten like the child he is, is bad writing or “character assassination”. Like yeah, the ending was frustrating and had issues, but people keep acting like it was AWFUL. It was functional and had flaws, but doesn’t ruin the series. The old stuff still exists as it does. edit: spelling |
BlossomBurstJul 28, 2021 11:57 AM
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XuWan said: because it totally ruins Ymir's character which ruins the whole series The stockholme syndrome thing? I'm not sure it ruins the entire story, but it makes her story work less, I agree. |
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| Because it was basically retcon after retcon. Eren achieved nothing with his 'genocide' because he stopped at 80%, letting the rest of the world just destroy Paradis even so. |
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| These people actually expected Eren's genocide plan to go all the way. Imagine being angry and disappointed that it didn't. But most of all, they're angry about the ship. They wanted Eren to cuck Mikasa for eternity and for her to die alone. |
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| Eren basically achieved nothing. Pretty much every alternative presented from the Zeke just die off peacefully ending to Armin and Co betting on trying to work with other nations and using the Rumbling as a deterrent were all better alternatives and in the end Eren in his foresight decided to go the genocidal route but decides to also allow his enemy to live on so they can come back and seek revenge which they do lol. He picked pretty much the worst ending outside of let the world kill them all. Like again what was his overall intention and goals for the world? To just let Mikasa have a kid so they or their kids could be doomed to total oblivion instead of their parents? The message and just how the whole story was set up actually does start to favor Eren trying to wipe out everyone (which is why so many fans wanted the ANR ending) but a lot of that comes down to Isayama failing to develop his world politically and explain various motivations of the powers outside and within Paradise. I really think Armin as the opposing force to Eren isn't really fleshed out well as the more ideal alternative to total genocide. I think people including myself overbought into how going this route fit the message and theme of AOT so well rather than seeing if Isayama was truly committing and developing this new direction for the franchise as a war drama/political thriller. I just don't think Isayama is actually very good at these kinds of stories and thrives more with classic horror/action survival content. You can go to other things like Ymir's weird abusive relationship, how the whole Zeke vs Levi thing was dealt with, Armin actually being able to look Eren in the eye after what he did and how basically other characters like Historia got relegated to baby maker. |
BilboBaggins365Jun 5, 2021 3:45 PM
Niyuri said: Somehow I never met before such a term but it's clearly fits best to last 15-20% of manga.Because it was basically retcon after retcon. |
epidemia78 said: These people actually expected Eren's genocide plan to go all the way. Imagine being angry and disappointed that it didn't. But most of all, they're angry about the ship. They wanted Eren to cuck Mikasa for eternity and for her to die alone. I mean if he was going to start murdering masses of people yeah then he should have gone through with it and hilariously the last 9 pages of the manga did clear up that hole by showing how idiotic Eren was. The series honestly wrote itself into a corner I really think if Isayama wanted a good sense of conflict he should have not given Eren at least the full Rumbling as an ability. It would have been a more balanced fight and Eren not slaughtering a good portion of the world could have allowed for a plausible ending where Paradise at least gets to survive into the future. Plus the ending doesn't actually properly condemn genocide anyway lol. While an ANR ending that's still positive would be just fan fiction if he went for full tragedy where the remaining forces of Paradise eventually turn on each other due to a power vacuum after Eren is gone starting new cycles of hatred and struggle that would have fit AOT well thematically. There isn't wrong with wanting a dark and tragic "bad" end. |
BilboBaggins365Jun 5, 2021 3:45 PM
BilboBaggins365 said: epidemia78 said: These people actually expected Eren's genocide plan to go all the way. Imagine being angry and disappointed that it didn't. But most of all, they're angry about the ship. They wanted Eren to cuck Mikasa for eternity and for her to die alone. I mean if he was going to start murdering masses of people yeah then he should have gone through with it and hilariously the last 9 pages of the manga did clear up that hole by showing how idiotic Eren was. The series honestly wrote itself into a corner I really think if Isayama wanted a good sense of conflict he should have not given Eren at least the full Rumbling as an ability. It would have been a more balanced fight and Eren not slaughtering a good portion of the world could have allowed for a plausible ending where Paradise at least gets to survive into the future. Plus the ending doesn't actually properly condemn genocide anyway lol. While an ANR ending that's still positive would be just fan fiction if he went for full tragedy where the remaining forces of Paradise eventually turn on each other due to a power vacuum after Eren is gone starting new cycles of hatred and struggle that would have fit AOT well thematically. There isn't wrong with wanting a dark and tragic "bad" end. Valid complaints. But the majority of people hating the ending can't say why it's bad without using words like: virgin, incel, cucked and horsed. Like I said, it's all about the ship. |
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epidemia78 said: BilboBaggins365 said: I mean if he was going to start murdering masses of people yeah then he should have gone through with it and hilariously the last 9 pages of the manga did clear up that hole by showing how idiotic Eren was. The series honestly wrote itself into a corner I really think if Isayama wanted a good sense of conflict he should have not given Eren at least the full Rumbling as an ability. It would have been a more balanced fight and Eren not slaughtering a good portion of the world could have allowed for a plausible ending where Paradise at least gets to survive into the future. Plus the ending doesn't actually properly condemn genocide anyway lol. While an ANR ending that's still positive would be just fan fiction if he went for full tragedy where the remaining forces of Paradise eventually turn on each other due to a power vacuum after Eren is gone starting new cycles of hatred and struggle that would have fit AOT well thematically. There isn't wrong with wanting a dark and tragic "bad" end. Valid complaints. But the majority of people hating the ending can't say why it's bad without using words like: virgin, incel, cucked and horsed. Like I said, it's all about the ship. That's true of people that are upset by those that hate it. Yes people like to throw ad homs on the internet. You are making a lot of assumptions when I have discussed with a lot of people even when I was more a big fan of the series of the issues regarding AOT. There are a lot of people upset with the direction with the series that can very well explain why. |
BilboBaggins365 said: the remaining forces of Paradise eventually turn on each other due to a power vacuum after Eren is gone starting new cycles of hatred and struggle that would have fit AOT well thematically. I actually like the sound of that, I love tragic endings |
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BilboBaggins365 said: epidemia78 said: Valid complaints. But the majority of people hating the ending can't say why it's bad without using words like: virgin, incel, cucked and horsed. Like I said, it's all about the ship. That's true of people that are upset by those that hate it. Yes people like to throw ad homs on the internet. You are making a lot of assumptions when I have discussed with a lot of people even when I was more a big fan of the series of the issues regarding AOT. There are a lot of people upset with the direction with the series that can very well explain why. I have lurked around these awful AOT forums long enough to get a good idea of what exactly the consensus is regarding the ending. As much as they pretend to love Mikasa, they want her to suffer for some reason. Probably because she's a pretty girl. |
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| It's ironic how the power of love is ultimately what fomented so much hatred for AoT. Yams let shippers influence him too much and made the culmination of all of AoT's thrills & mysteries revolve around a fanservice love story. Several character arcs were also cut short (Reiner, Armin, Falco, HISTORIA). The final battle lacked any real suspense once you caught onto the trick that instead of subverting the battle shounen formula, it was now literally the textbook definition of it. All of that said, I personally don't hate the ending. It's just that a 6/10 ending for a consistently 9+ series is fucking atrocious. |
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K_YoRHa said: I don't like the whole genocide/rumbling arc thing. I don't like the whole Eren is a villain all along arc to the point where it gets less interesting each chapter since Marley. Armin was also underused for the entire arc as well. I wish Isayama have Armin make a plan like Zeke and Eren where there's another scenario to solve the issue to make Armin seem important to the story.Mikasa's character is doomed to fail and very undeveloped to be a plot device. I also don't like the lack of deaths in the rumbling arc. Can't take it seriously as this series is suppose to be about tragic and loss. I felt there should be a lot of deaths in the final showdown other than just 1 cheap death. 100% agree fellow NieR fan. Armin could've become the new main protagonist like the Trost arc built up to him being when we thought eren was dead, so he can finally show how he's a new, better Erwin, but not a devil. I also think that at least one more of the original 6 had to die to keep up the urgency. Mikasa was doomed to suck the monent she was made a siscon kuudere/the Muscle and nothing more |
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| Yeah, I also finished it recently and it wasn't as bad as people said. Manga readers always over exaggerate things |
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| He didn’t fuck the generic blonde waifu. That’s why they hate it. |
Pecado_Carnal said: - Eren pulling a Lelouch despite him saying it was a stupid idea in the first arc without any explanation for him changing his mind about it - Ymir loving her abuser - Eren killing his own mother to save Bert when, if he didn't do anything, Dina would have eating Bert, so they would have had a Royal Titan Shifter (Dinna) and a Titan Shifter (Grisha). The rumbling could have being done in chapter 1. If he could change things at will, he's a moron who's plan doesn't make sense. If he couldn't, he's a slave, everything was done by fate/Ymir and therefore the story is pointless. - Eren totally OOC breakdown over Mikasa and not the millions of people he's killing as the conversation with Armin takes place. Let's not forget him lying even in his inner monologues. - Armin thanking Eren for becoming a mass murderer - The parasyte leaving the show because his contract expired. - Mikasa walking back to Paradis despite being an ocean in between the island and the battlefield, not to mention every single piece of technology was destroyed by Eren in a previous chapter. - Annie, Karina, etc not suffering any consequences - Force Ghosts - The Alliance not getting shot in place. In fact Marley should've killed even the Eldians on their side after what they've seen. - The baby being a mistery for no fucking reason. Historia having a child to save his ass, therefore ruining her character. - The war is still going on, but now Paradis doesn't even has Titans to defend itself. It was established that there was Anti-Titan technology, so even having them all wouldn't be a guarentee for survival. - Marley Warriors and their victims being all Moomin-like friends with each other. - Reiner character is reduced to sniffing a letter. - Mikasa being allowed to stay in Paradis - Mikasa being unable to move on from Eren - Eren turning into a Hateful Boyfriend sequel bait or Mikasa being crazy as fuck if we take the 8 extra pages into account. I don't know what option is worse honestly. And that's just taking the original 139 release on itself, without taking into account the million plotholes it creates for the 138 previous chapters or the 8 extra pages. Hard disagree about his breakdown. Eren being a heartless monster was pretty obviously an act he went too deep on (i.e. laughing in pain at the unbelievablility of Sasha's death). He's still a child who was forced into this, selfishly fighting and fighting so he can save the people HE cares about. It was a cute moment of him finally letting himself be sincere now that his convictions are over and he doesn't need to push away his friends anymore. If he actually was supposed to be a monster, i feel Isayama wouldve shown his decent by keeping him the protagonist, not made it a mystery how he went from flashback eren to outwardly emotionless and ruthless eren Edit: the caterpillar thing wasn't that importsnt to begin with. It was intentionally left a mystery but with a few pretty obvious hints. The story isn't about the caterpillar so there's not much reason to show it over and over. 2nd edit for people who can't tell: I agree with most of the other stuff, they were pretty odd. Though the Dina point doesn't make much sense |
BlossomBurstJun 6, 2021 8:20 AM
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epidemia78 said: BilboBaggins365 said: I mean if he was going to start murdering masses of people yeah then he should have gone through with it and hilariously the last 9 pages of the manga did clear up that hole by showing how idiotic Eren was. The series honestly wrote itself into a corner I really think if Isayama wanted a good sense of conflict he should have not given Eren at least the full Rumbling as an ability. It would have been a more balanced fight and Eren not slaughtering a good portion of the world could have allowed for a plausible ending where Paradise at least gets to survive into the future. Plus the ending doesn't actually properly condemn genocide anyway lol. While an ANR ending that's still positive would be just fan fiction if he went for full tragedy where the remaining forces of Paradise eventually turn on each other due to a power vacuum after Eren is gone starting new cycles of hatred and struggle that would have fit AOT well thematically. There isn't wrong with wanting a dark and tragic "bad" end. Valid complaints. But the majority of people hating the ending can't say why it's bad without using words like: virgin, incel, cucked and horsed. Like I said, it's all about the ship. It is about Eren not fucking Historia but they’ll lie and say it isn’t. |
ShoriTora said: BlossomBurst said: The stockholme syndrome thing? I'm not sure it ruins the entire story, but it makes her story work less, I agree. This. People like to say the final season "ruins the whole series" and makes everything meaningless when thats 1. exaggerated and 2. a gross misinterpretation of the ending and extra panels. A lot of people here say the ending is pro-genocide when the way I interpret it is it doesn't rly pick a side. I'm not a big fan of 139 but I feel like people overexaggerate its quality or minute details so they have more of a reason to dislike it. Like do people rly care that much about Reiner sniffing a letter? Its weird but rly not that deep I guess him still getting comedy scenes like that shows how little the characaters get punished for their past actions (but that's kinda the point of the story--even if you can never atone or be forgiven, the past doesn't need to chain you down if you help the present and the future). The characters' reaction to ending 100% does not pick a side. Because he tried to go for the shonen/epic fantasy story "oh the evil god did all that for good reasons, to save us...thank you" trope you used to see all over the place, but worsened by the fact that Eren was punished as an ally being put down instead of as a villain (i.e. bertholdt's death) But to say it ruins the entire story before that? Nah I'd say it enriches it because it's still really good, even if it's meaning is not expected. |
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BlossomBurst said: K_YoRHa said: I don't like the whole genocide/rumbling arc thing. I don't like the whole Eren is a villain all along arc to the point where it gets less interesting each chapter since Marley. Armin was also underused for the entire arc as well. I wish Isayama have Armin make a plan like Zeke and Eren where there's another scenario to solve the issue to make Armin seem important to the story.Mikasa's character is doomed to fail and very undeveloped to be a plot device. I also don't like the lack of deaths in the rumbling arc. Can't take it seriously as this series is suppose to be about tragic and loss. I felt there should be a lot of deaths in the final showdown other than just 1 cheap death. 100% agree fellow NieR fan. Armin could've become the new main protagonist like the Trost arc built up to him being when we thought eren was dead, so he can finally show how he's a new, better Erwin, but not a devil. I also think that at least one more of the original 6 had to die to keep up the urgency. Mikasa was doomed to suck the monent she was made a siscon kuudere/the Muscle and nothing more I disagree with Armin becoming the protagonist. The problem was him becoming pacifist. |
Bayek said: It's ironic how the power of love is ultimately what fomented so much hatred for AoT. Yams let shippers influence him too much and made the culmination of all of AoT's thrills & mysteries revolve around a fanservice love story. Several character arcs were also cut short (Reiner, Armin, Falco, HISTORIA). The final battle lacked any real suspense once you caught onto the trick that instead of subverting the battle shounen formula, it was now literally the textbook definition of it. All of that said, I personally don't hate the ending. It's just that a 6/10 ending for a consistently 9+ series is fucking atrocious. How? It’s a 5/10 ending but to say the Yeagerists aren’t shippers is insane. A good chunk of haters wanted Eren to bang “The Queen” as an affirmation of chadness. It isn’t a love story — you guys just chose to focus on the cringe scene, even though it isn’t the worst offender. |
PeaceForeverMe said: BlossomBurst said: 100% agree fellow NieR fan. Armin could've become the new main protagonist like the Trost arc built up to him being when we thought eren was dead, so he can finally show how he's a new, better Erwin, but not a devil. I also think that at least one more of the original 6 had to die to keep up the urgency. Mikasa was doomed to suck the monent she was made a siscon kuudere/the Muscle and nothing more I disagree with Armin becoming the protagonist. The problem was him becoming pacifist. Nah he's not a pacifist, he's just smart enough to know that there are other options besides maximum violence (considering his lines about needing to get his hands dirty). It's completely believable he could've come up with a counter plan to the total rumbling that stops Ymir's will before the rumbling can get too far |
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BlossomBurst said: PeaceForeverMe said: I disagree with Armin becoming the protagonist. The problem was him becoming pacifist. Nah he's not a pacifist, he's just smart enough to know that there are other options besides maximum violence (considering his lines about needing to get his hands dirty). It's completely believable he could've come up with a counter plan to the total rumbling that stops Ymir's will before the rumbling can get too far That’s what I meant in a way. They made him a morally ambiguous tactician to a passive “ let’s talk” dude. They should have played into his manipulative side and made him a Lelouch-esque character. Armin using tactics such as annexation and bombing ports and industrial theft would suit his character. Him being a tactician was severely underused. |
| They massacred my boy Eren. His character was butchered by the ending. |
| Because the writing was bad. 4/10 for ch. 139 |
BilboBaggins365 said: Eren basically achieved nothing. Pretty much every alternative presented from the Zeke just die off peacefully ending to Armin and Co betting on trying to work with other nations and using the Rumbling as a deterrent were all better alternatives and in the end Eren in his foresight decided to go the genocidal route but decides to also allow his enemy to live on so they can come back and seek revenge which they do lol. He picked pretty much the worst ending outside of let the world kill them all. Like again what was his overall intention and goals for the world? To just let Mikasa have a kid so they or their kids could be doomed to total oblivion instead of their parents? The message and just how the whole story was set up actually does start to favor Eren trying to wipe out everyone (which is why so many fans wanted the ANR ending) but a lot of that comes down to Isayama failing to develop his world politically and explain various motivations of the powers outside and within Paradise. I really think Armin as the opposing force to Eren isn't really fleshed out well as the more ideal alternative to total genocide. I think people including myself overbought into how going this route fit the message and theme of AOT so well rather than seeing if Isayama was truly committing and developing this new direction for the franchise as a war drama/political thriller. I just don't think Isayama is actually very good at these kinds of stories and thrives more with classic horror/action survival content. You can go to other things like Ymir's weird abusive relationship, how the whole Zeke vs Levi thing was dealt with, Armin actually being able to look Eren in the eye after what he did and how basically other characters like Historia got relegated to baby maker. I feel so bad on the Surver Corps that sacrificed their life for the Paradise. In the end, it was all meaningless. Eren saying he didn't know why he did all the rumbling stuff. |
BlossomBurst said: I find it hilarious how you, without any subtlety, avoided replying to all of his arguments EXCEPT for the one you tought you could debunk. So i guess that by omission, you're admitting that he's right and the ending was garbage.Pecado_Carnal said: - Eren pulling a Lelouch despite him saying it was a stupid idea in the first arc without any explanation for him changing his mind about it - Ymir loving her abuser - Eren killing his own mother to save Bert when, if he didn't do anything, Dina would have eating Bert, so they would have had a Royal Titan Shifter (Dinna) and a Titan Shifter (Grisha). The rumbling could have being done in chapter 1. If he could change things at will, he's a moron who's plan doesn't make sense. If he couldn't, he's a slave, everything was done by fate/Ymir and therefore the story is pointless. - Eren totally OOC breakdown over Mikasa and not the millions of people he's killing as the conversation with Armin takes place. Let's not forget him lying even in his inner monologues. - Armin thanking Eren for becoming a mass murderer - The parasyte leaving the show because his contract expired. - Mikasa walking back to Paradis despite being an ocean in between the island and the battlefield, not to mention every single piece of technology was destroyed by Eren in a previous chapter. - Annie, Karina, etc not suffering any consequences - Force Ghosts - The Alliance not getting shot in place. In fact Marley should've killed even the Eldians on their side after what they've seen. - The baby being a mistery for no fucking reason. Historia having a child to save his ass, therefore ruining her character. - The war is still going on, but now Paradis doesn't even has Titans to defend itself. It was established that there was Anti-Titan technology, so even having them all wouldn't be a guarentee for survival. - Marley Warriors and their victims being all Moomin-like friends with each other. - Reiner character is reduced to sniffing a letter. - Mikasa being allowed to stay in Paradis - Mikasa being unable to move on from Eren - Eren turning into a Hateful Boyfriend sequel bait or Mikasa being crazy as fuck if we take the 8 extra pages into account. I don't know what option is worse honestly. And that's just taking the original 139 release on itself, without taking into account the million plotholes it creates for the 138 previous chapters or the 8 extra pages. Hard disagree about his breakdown. Eren being a heartless monster was pretty obviously an act he went too deep on (i.e. laughing in pain at the unbelievablility of Sasha's death). He's still a child who was forced into this, selfishly fighting and fighting so he can save the people HE cares about. It was a cute moment of him finally letting himself be sincere now that his convictions are over and he doesn't need to push away his friends anymore. If he actually was supposed to be a monster, i feel Isayama wouldve shown his decent by keeping him the protagonist, not made it a mystery how he went from flashback eren to outwardly emotionless and ruthless eren Edit: the caterpillar thing wasn't that importsnt to begin with. It was intentionally left a mystery but with a few pretty obvious hints. The story isn't about the caterpillar so there's not much reason to show it over and over. |
Non-aggressive said: I also like the ending. I think you should come to your own conclusions and not let other people calling you brain dead on reddit for like it influence your I opinions. It didn't influence my opinion, I was just curious why everyone overhyped how bad it was |
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Alvacka97 said: BlossomBurst said: I find it hilarious how you, without any subtlety, avoided replying to all of his arguments EXCEPT for the one you tought you could debunk. So i guess that by omission, you're admitting that he's right and the ending was garbage.Hard disagree about his breakdown. Eren being a heartless monster was pretty obviously an act he went too deep on (i.e. laughing in pain at the unbelievablility of Sasha's death). He's still a child who was forced into this, selfishly fighting and fighting so he can save the people HE cares about. It was a cute moment of him finally letting himself be sincere now that his convictions are over and he doesn't need to push away his friends anymore. If he actually was supposed to be a monster, i feel Isayama wouldve shown his decent by keeping him the protagonist, not made it a mystery how he went from flashback eren to outwardly emotionless and ruthless eren Edit: the caterpillar thing wasn't that importsnt to begin with. It was intentionally left a mystery but with a few pretty obvious hints. The story isn't about the caterpillar so there's not much reason to show it over and over. What? My bad if it wasn't clear but the reason I only replied the points I could debunk was because I agree with the ones I didn't. I'm not an "AoT is perfect stop criticising it!!" type. It has flaws, but it's also a well-put together story. I'll edit it so people like you don't get mistaken. |
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PeaceForeverMe said: Calling me a "Yeagerist" because of my meme sig is a misnomer, but I'll play along. No, Eren impregnating Historia is not a ship. It's a rational decision that would have affirmed his choice to protect Historia at all costs. I would never have described the relationship between the two as romantic, but there was undeniably some degree of adolescent spark between them. It wouldn't have been crazy for Historia to have asked Eren to be the one to save her and Eren awkwardly going along with it. Shipping was the worst thing to happen to AoT and probably a large contributing reason to why it had zero sexual or hormonal tension whatsoever.Bayek said: It's ironic how the power of love is ultimately what fomented so much hatred for AoT. Yams let shippers influence him too much and made the culmination of all of AoT's thrills & mysteries revolve around a fanservice love story. Several character arcs were also cut short (Reiner, Armin, Falco, HISTORIA). The final battle lacked any real suspense once you caught onto the trick that instead of subverting the battle shounen formula, it was now literally the textbook definition of it. All of that said, I personally don't hate the ending. It's just that a 6/10 ending for a consistently 9+ series is fucking atrocious. How? It’s a 5/10 ending but to say the Yeagerists aren’t shippers is insane. A good chunk of haters wanted Eren to bang “The Queen” as an affirmation of chadness. It isn’t a love story — you guys just chose to focus on the cringe scene, even though it isn’t the worst offender. |
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Bayek said: PeaceForeverMe said: Calling me a "Yeagerist" because of my meme sig is a misnomer, but I'll play along. No, Eren impregnating Historia is not a ship. It's a rational decision that would have affirmed his choice to protect Historia at all costs. I would never have described the relationship between the two as romantic, but there was undeniably some degree of adolescent spark between them. It wouldn't have been crazy for Historia to have asked Eren to be the one to save her and Eren awkwardly going along with it. Shipping was the worst thing to happen to AoT and probably a large contributing reason to why it had zero sexual or hormonal tension whatsoever.How? It’s a 5/10 ending but to say the Yeagerists aren’t shippers is insane. A good chunk of haters wanted Eren to bang “The Queen” as an affirmation of chadness. It isn’t a love story — you guys just chose to focus on the cringe scene, even though it isn’t the worst offender. Historia wanted to save herself. She’s always been a selfish person with an altruistic persona. It goes along with what Ymir wanted her too. A lot of people say she was underused but her arc has already peaked when she became queen. Her being a plot device post-timeskip doesn't diminish her character development, it actually adds more to it. Remember Ymir always telling her to live life with pride? To do things out of her own will and not because people expect her to. Historia deciding to become pregnant was a fuck you to an entire country that wanted to turn her into a titan and birth as many royal babies as she can, in a shortened lifespan of 13 years. I don't see why people pity her because that was an empowering choice rather than an oppressive one. For once Historia took charge of her life instead of being used as a political pawn. Also I think the question here is not "who is the father?" but rather "did Yelena influence Historia's decision like the MPs speculated or was it Historia's idea all along?" This tweet really got me thinking: Either way, it was implied that she already had a relationship with the farmer, because if not it wouldn't be such a feasible option for her. What I don't understand is why Yams would make the farmer a former bully when he could just be a regular ol' farmhand who liked her he was remorseful of his actions and stayed toiling in the farm to make up for what he did in the past won't convince people that he's good enough for her. Now you got people thinking Historia looks depressed here because she's carrying her bully's baby, and not because her selfish decision to preserve her own life resulted in Eren successfully doing the Rumbling. |
| In this thread, the dichotomy is clear: People who read the manga and cares about the consistency of the manga. These people care about the characters and themes that were built over the years. And then there are people who only focuses on one or two things: Ships, post time skip Eren, and ignoring the rest of the manga. They also seemed to not be bothered by the message of the ending: Slave and master relationship is acceptable, genocide can be forgiven because Armin can pull bs, Paradis turned into fascism island, which contradicts the uprising arc, Eren giving genocide 80% of the world, which put put Paradis in danger, which he stated in Chapter 123 that he won't do. Look, I can go on and on, but there's clear difference between people who read the manga with eyes closed and people who don't. |
 -[ ~♫~ ll Credit ]- |
PeaceForeverMe said: Bayek said: Calling me a "Yeagerist" because of my meme sig is a misnomer, but I'll play along. No, Eren impregnating Historia is not a ship. It's a rational decision that would have affirmed his choice to protect Historia at all costs. I would never have described the relationship between the two as romantic, but there was undeniably some degree of adolescent spark between them. It wouldn't have been crazy for Historia to have asked Eren to be the one to save her and Eren awkwardly going along with it. Shipping was the worst thing to happen to AoT and probably a large contributing reason to why it had zero sexual or hormonal tension whatsoever. Historia wanted to save herself. She’s always been a selfish person with an altruistic persona. It goes along with what Ymir wanted her too. A lot of people say she was underused but her arc has already peaked when she became queen. Her being a plot device post-timeskip doesn't diminish her character development, it actually adds more to it. Remember Ymir always telling her to live life with pride? To do things out of her own will and not because people expect her to. Historia deciding to become pregnant was a fuck you to an entire country that wanted to turn her into a titan and birth as many royal babies as she can, in a shortened lifespan of 13 years. I don't see why people pity her because that was an empowering choice rather than an oppressive one. For once Historia took charge of her life instead of being used as a political pawn. Also I think the question here is not "who is the father?" but rather "did Yelena influence Historia's decision like the MPs speculated or was it Historia's idea all along?" This tweet really got me thinking: Either way, it was implied that she already had a relationship with the farmer, because if not it wouldn't be such a feasible option for her. What I don't understand is why Yams would make the farmer a former bully when he could just be a regular ol' farmhand who liked her he was remorseful of his actions and stayed toiling in the farm to make up for what he did in the past won't convince people that he's good enough for her. Now you got people thinking Historia looks depressed here because she's carrying her bully's baby, and not because her selfish decision to preserve her own life resulted in Eren successfully doing the Rumbling. The issue with historia becoming a plot device is the anime. Her selfishness and being "the worst girl in the world" wasn't really there in the anime. In the anime, we're given the beginnings and the results without showing how we got there, leading to her feeling like a missed opportunity. Also I feel like the husband being a bully is just an example of the future actions over past mistakes motif the story has. |
|
PeaceForeverMe said: It's clear that Historia's pregnancy was just a red herring that misled us for absolutely no pay off. I won't deny your take on Historia's attitude, but it's an incredibly mediocre approach that offers nothing in return. Wouldn't Historia bearing the child of the man who destroyed her family & overthrew Karl Fritz's 100 years of peace be the ultimate "fuck you" instead? She even proposed it to Eren, but he rejected her because apparently he was too shy or whatever that running joke is.Bayek said: Calling me a "Yeagerist" because of my meme sig is a misnomer, but I'll play along. No, Eren impregnating Historia is not a ship. It's a rational decision that would have affirmed his choice to protect Historia at all costs. I would never have described the relationship between the two as romantic, but there was undeniably some degree of adolescent spark between them. It wouldn't have been crazy for Historia to have asked Eren to be the one to save her and Eren awkwardly going along with it. Shipping was the worst thing to happen to AoT and probably a large contributing reason to why it had zero sexual or hormonal tension whatsoever. Historia wanted to save herself. She’s always been a selfish person with an altruistic persona. It goes along with what Ymir wanted her too. A lot of people say she was underused but her arc has already peaked when she became queen. Her being a plot device post-timeskip doesn't diminish her character development, it actually adds more to it. Remember Ymir always telling her to live life with pride? To do things out of her own will and not because people expect her to. Historia deciding to become pregnant was a fuck you to an entire country that wanted to turn her into a titan and birth as many royal babies as she can, in a shortened lifespan of 13 years. I don't see why people pity her because that was an empowering choice rather than an oppressive one. For once Historia took charge of her life instead of being used as a political pawn. Also I think the question here is not "who is the father?" but rather "did Yelena influence Historia's decision like the MPs speculated or was it Historia's idea all along?" This tweet really got me thinking: Either way, it was implied that she already had a relationship with the farmer, because if not it wouldn't be such a feasible option for her. What I don't understand is why Yams would make the farmer a former bully when he could just be a regular ol' farmhand who liked her he was remorseful of his actions and stayed toiling in the farm to make up for what he did in the past won't convince people that he's good enough for her. Now you got people thinking Historia looks depressed here because she's carrying her bully's baby, and not because her selfish decision to preserve her own life resulted in Eren successfully doing the Rumbling. The last part doesn't add up. Eren told Historia he was going to do the Rumbling before she asked him to knock her up. Her decision had absolutely no impact on what he was already set to do. She suggests bearing his child to shoulder the sin of global genocide and he completely rejects her. She didn't go to the farmer because she had a comfy relationship with him (there's no evidence of such), but because he was just the next available choice. Ultimately, Eren being the father would have added too many incredible dynamics to name. Historia getting knocked up by an off-screen credit has zero consequence to anything in the story. You know what she could have done to send a message? Jump off the highest point of Wall Sina immediately after the medal ceremony. Literally nothing beyond that would have changed. |
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LordSozin said: In this thread, the dichotomy is clear: People who read the manga and cares about the consistency of the manga. These people care about the characters and themes that were built over the years. And then there are people who only focuses on one or two things: Ships, post time skip Eren, and ignoring the rest of the manga. They also seemed to not be bothered by the message of the ending: Slave and master relationship is acceptable, genocide can be forgiven because Armin can pull bs, Paradis turned into fascism island, which contradicts the uprising arc, Eren giving genocide 80% of the world, which put put Paradis in danger, which he stated in Chapter 123 that he won't do. Look, I can go on and on, but there's clear difference between people who read the manga with eyes closed and people who don't. Oh please get of your high horse. Both things can simultaneously be true for many groups of people. In this case, it’s true. I think the ending was a 5/10 ending but I also think people didn’t like that their headcanons didn’t come true. Just like Yeagerists can think that Erens character got butchered at the end(it did) and still dislike that Erehisu didn’t become canon(a ship). |
Bayek said: PeaceForeverMe said: It's clear that Historia's pregnancy was just a red herring that misled us for absolutely no pay off. I won't deny your take on Historia's attitude, but it's an incredibly mediocre approach that offers nothing in return. Wouldn't Historia bearing the child of the man who destroyed her family & overthrew Karl Fritz's 100 years of peace be the ultimate "fuck you" instead? She even proposed it to Eren, but he rejected her because apparently he was too shy or whatever that running joke is.Historia wanted to save herself. She’s always been a selfish person with an altruistic persona. It goes along with what Ymir wanted her too. A lot of people say she was underused but her arc has already peaked when she became queen. Her being a plot device post-timeskip doesn't diminish her character development, it actually adds more to it. Remember Ymir always telling her to live life with pride? To do things out of her own will and not because people expect her to. Historia deciding to become pregnant was a fuck you to an entire country that wanted to turn her into a titan and birth as many royal babies as she can, in a shortened lifespan of 13 years. I don't see why people pity her because that was an empowering choice rather than an oppressive one. For once Historia took charge of her life instead of being used as a political pawn. Also I think the question here is not "who is the father?" but rather "did Yelena influence Historia's decision like the MPs speculated or was it Historia's idea all along?" This tweet really got me thinking: Either way, it was implied that she already had a relationship with the farmer, because if not it wouldn't be such a feasible option for her. What I don't understand is why Yams would make the farmer a former bully when he could just be a regular ol' farmhand who liked her he was remorseful of his actions and stayed toiling in the farm to make up for what he did in the past won't convince people that he's good enough for her. Now you got people thinking Historia looks depressed here because she's carrying her bully's baby, and not because her selfish decision to preserve her own life resulted in Eren successfully doing the Rumbling. The last part doesn't add up. Eren told Historia he was going to do the Rumbling before she asked him to knock her up. Her decision had absolutely no impact on what he was already set to do. She suggests bearing his child to shoulder the sin of global genocide and he completely rejects her. She didn't go to the farmer because she had a comfy relationship with him (there's no evidence of such), but because he was just the next available choice. Ultimately, Eren being the father would have added too many incredible dynamics to name. Historia getting knocked up by an off-screen credit has zero consequence to anything in the story. You know what she could have done to send a message? Jump off the highest point of Wall Sina immediately after the medal ceremony. Literally nothing beyond that would have changed. No. She served as an icon to her people. If she did jump off, who would take over? And how are you sure it’s no going to be a tyrant? Maybe I’m biased because I don’t like Historia but it’s clear to me her fans have to images of her. One is a mother Teresa like figure and the other is an Oliver Armstrong figure. They can’t exist at once. She asked Eren what do you think of me having a child to ensure her safety and to prolong Zeke’s life. Eren couldn’t have activated the rumbling without Zeke unless he wanted to activate it in the middle of Paradis. On the side note, that’s what he should have done. He shouldn’t have gone the convoluted way of meeting Zeke after the enemies wanted to capture him. What’s stopping him from taking Historia to shiganshina to activate the rumbling? A plot hole but whatever. Historia bearing Ymir in a symbolic sense is beautiful? Literal? You can keep it in the trash? |
| I never cared about them in the least because I didn't care, but chapter 139 forced me to delve into it to better understand the ending and that is the first low point of this. Also, the giant worm appeared to shit on the story, and disappeared. And to sum this up: they put in a lot of unnecessary forced mysteries just to make the result suck, it's almost like the basement reveal, only this one was satisfying and unaccountable. |
 a wise user of MAL said: Just to clarify, adaptations should absolutely stand on their own |
LordSozin said: In this thread, the dichotomy is clear: People who read the manga and cares about the consistency of the manga. These people care about the characters and themes that were built over the years. And then there are people who only focuses on one or two things: Ships, post time skip Eren, and ignoring the rest of the manga. They also seemed to not be bothered by the message of the ending: Slave and master relationship is acceptable, genocide can be forgiven because Armin can pull bs, Paradis turned into fascism island, which contradicts the uprising arc, Eren giving genocide 80% of the world, which put put Paradis in danger, which he stated in Chapter 123 that he won't do. Look, I can go on and on, but there's clear difference between people who read the manga with eyes closed and people who don't. You aren't wrong. The drop of quality for the last arc was horrible and people don't care because they got their "shipping", that it "humanizes" Eren, and that his "friends" got to live long lives. That ending was the worst though. People don't realize that the final chapter recontextualizes a lot of the story. Eren's initial motivation for killing the titans (his mom dying) oh it was Eren who caused her death. The speech with Reiner "Why did my mom have to die" its a joke now. Why did Eren have to convince Ymir to help him and not Zeke, if she already planned this? Eren's motivation and agency just gone with "I don't know". The worm off-screened, what happened to the people who were the Colossal Titans (did he forget, they should revert back to humans), Ymir loving Fritz (then why did she let herself die?) and so on... The best word to describe this ending is retcon galore. |
| “You’re going to be all right. You just stumbled over a stone in the road. It means nothing. Your goal lies far beyond this. Doesn’t it? I’m sure you’ll overcome this. You’ll walk again… soon.” – Guts |
PeaceForeverMe said: The plan to turn Historia into a pure titan already proves that she was a puppet queen and that it didn't take much imagination to replace her. Tyrant or not, those subject to power wouldn't have much of a choice but to submit at that stage.Bayek said: It's clear that Historia's pregnancy was just a red herring that misled us for absolutely no pay off. I won't deny your take on Historia's attitude, but it's an incredibly mediocre approach that offers nothing in return. Wouldn't Historia bearing the child of the man who destroyed her family & overthrew Karl Fritz's 100 years of peace be the ultimate "fuck you" instead? She even proposed it to Eren, but he rejected her because apparently he was too shy or whatever that running joke is. The last part doesn't add up. Eren told Historia he was going to do the Rumbling before she asked him to knock her up. Her decision had absolutely no impact on what he was already set to do. She suggests bearing his child to shoulder the sin of global genocide and he completely rejects her. She didn't go to the farmer because she had a comfy relationship with him (there's no evidence of such), but because he was just the next available choice. Ultimately, Eren being the father would have added too many incredible dynamics to name. Historia getting knocked up by an off-screen credit has zero consequence to anything in the story. You know what she could have done to send a message? Jump off the highest point of Wall Sina immediately after the medal ceremony. Literally nothing beyond that would have changed. No. She served as an icon to her people. If she did jump off, who would take over? And how are you sure it’s no going to be a tyrant? Maybe I’m biased because I don’t like Historia but it’s clear to me her fans have to images of her. One is a mother Teresa like figure and the other is an Oliver Armstrong figure. They can’t exist at once. She asked Eren what do you think of me having a child to ensure her safety and to prolong Zeke’s life. Eren couldn’t have activated the rumbling without Zeke unless he wanted to activate it in the middle of Paradis. On the side note, that’s what he should have done. He shouldn’t have gone the convoluted way of meeting Zeke after the enemies wanted to capture him. What’s stopping him from taking Historia to shiganshina to activate the rumbling? A plot hole but whatever. Historia bearing Ymir in a symbolic sense is beautiful? Literal? You can keep it in the trash? Yes, I'm sensing a certain degree of seething towards all things Yeager. I wasn't overly fond of Historia, but the mediocrity of her character arc is a continued example of the rule that the final arc set as the standard. AoT's characters have never been its strongest point, nor did they need to be, but there was a consistent shortcoming with nearly every character at the end. I wouldn't say it was enough to outright retcon any of them, but it accumulated enough damage to make more than just one sect of its fandom take notice. |
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Niyuri said: Because it was basically retcon after retcon. Eren achieved nothing with his 'genocide' because he stopped at 80%, letting the rest of the world just destroy Paradis even so. Basically this. Also the extra pages made it even worse. |
BlossomBurst said: I just finished, and though I didn't love the final battle and the weird way no one hated Eren nor care for the little glowing spine worm, but like, what was so bad about it? It worked and was alright, even if it wasn't mindblowing or unexpected. For one, I really liked how Eren failed in the end to end all war by making himself the one shared enemy. Also I really like how Eren's stoic facade falls apart similarly to what happened after Sasha in the airboat, and how the ending makes it so that they don't need titan solutions to human issues, but human solutions (i.e. diplomacy). Even with the extra 8 pages with Ymir and the future adding even more, why do people hate this? edit: also it's cool how titans and the desire for life are intertwined This thread is quite amusing. There is the chapter 139 thread with a gazillion pages and multiple other threads containing essays upon essays as to why people dislike the ending. If you really wanted to know why, you would just read one of said threads. What you really want to know is why people dislike the things you like, in which case the answer is subjectivity. The only objective truth that some people find very hard to accept, is that the ending is not well received by a sizable portion of the fan-base. |
Gloomy-eyes said: BilboBaggins365 said: How about bad writing as a reason? Probably because she's a pretty girl. Dude you messed up your quote lol. That was in response to me. |
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