Forum Settings
Forums

Anime shows that deals with the philosophy of Utilitarianism.

New
Feb 20, 2020 3:19 AM
#1

Offline
Feb 2020
20
Hello,

I am looking for Anime that deals with the philosophy of Utilitarianism.
Some examples would be:
1) Code geass; Utilitarian-Lelouch lamperouge.
2) Madoka Magica; Utilitarian-Kyubey.
3) Berserk; Utilitarian-Griffith.
4) Death Note; Utilitarian-Light Yagami
5) Legend of the galactic heroes; Utilitarian- Reinhard & Oberstein

...etc. You get the point.

Please help, I would be really grateful for your precious recommendations. :)

Best Regards,

Chris.
chrispandeyFeb 20, 2020 3:27 AM
Feb 20, 2020 8:37 AM
#2
Offline
Apr 2017
39
Utilitarianism eh I did this exact assignment 2 semesters ago in college. We even had to choose an anime and portay it using utilitarian principles. I chose code geass because it was easiest. Here are some examples but there no as strong as those you already seen. Not spoiling anything just watch and see

https://myanimelist.net/anime/6547/Angel_Beats

Sacrifice for others

https://myanimelist.net/anime/8074/Highschool_of_the_Dead

https://myanimelist.net/anime/13601/Psycho-Pass

Here ya go. Not trolling we had some guy talk about the second show and drew comparisons and everything. Teacher loved it.
Feb 20, 2020 9:46 AM
#3

Offline
Feb 2020
20
LostMujahid said:
Utilitarianism eh I did this exact assignment 2 semesters ago in college. We even had to choose an anime and portay it using utilitarian principles. I chose code geass because it was easiest. Here are some examples but there no as strong as those you already seen. Not spoiling anything just watch and see

https://myanimelist.net/anime/6547/Angel_Beats

Sacrifice for others

https://myanimelist.net/anime/8074/Highschool_of_the_Dead

https://myanimelist.net/anime/13601/Psycho-Pass

Here ya go. Not trolling we had some guy talk about the second show and drew comparisons and everything. Teacher loved it.


Thanks, I have seen all three of the shows that you have mentioned above.
I can say that a little bit of essence of utilitarianism was in Angel Beats.
Psycho Pass takes more authority on utilitarianism & it's applications.

But I am really intrigued by your recommendation of Highschool of the Dead.
Tbh, this is probably the last anime I expected on this list. I have seen HOTD & I must say that It didn't suit my taste.
I don't think that it has any factors going on regarding utilitarian philosophy.

Anyways, thanks for your recommendations. Really appreciate it. :)

If you find any other like the above mentioned, I would be really grateful.

Best Regards.
Feb 20, 2020 9:52 AM
#4
ᴛʜʀᴇᴀᴅ★ʀᴇᴀᴘᴇʀ

Offline
Dec 2018
8634
Huh... interesting criteria...
Feb 20, 2020 9:54 AM
#5
Offline
Apr 2017
39
Since you saw them I will explain why high school of the dead is utilitarian. Now mind you I did not present this but here is a basic rundown. [/Spoiler] Takashi pretty much is the glue the holds the group together. He goes out of his way to keep the group together and maximizes the value they all have to help them survive. Despite rei and saya's lack of fondness for him he still keeps them around. There are other examples in the manga that my classmate mentioned but thats what I remember now.[/Spoiler] If I ever see the guy in my college again I will ask him for his paper and send it you but I doubt it he probably went to another school. Its not a good example but it is I guess an example.
Feb 20, 2020 9:56 AM
#6

Offline
Oct 2017
685
Zegapain The anime gets into some philosophy topics you can say the MC or the main villian are Utilitarian, though you may not like the Mecha stuff idk.

Feb 20, 2020 10:29 AM
#7

Offline
Feb 2010
34616
https://myanimelist.net/anime/5226/Souten_Kouro
I probably regret this post by now.
Feb 20, 2020 10:34 AM
#8

Offline
May 2019
754
+1 Zegapain

Infinite Ryvius deals with some utilitarian principles as it deals with a group of teenagers as they struggle to maintain order and control when they're left stranded aboard an experimental spaceship
Feb 20, 2020 11:12 AM
#9

Offline
Feb 2020
20
Fario-P said:
Huh... interesting criteria...


Thank you so much for the recommendations.
I haven't seen sailor moon YET. I always thought of it as episodic anime more targeted for general audience like Dragon Ball Z or Naruto. I will surely give it a shot.

I have seen weathering with you but it doesn't present much with philosophy of utilitarianism to me atleast.
I have also seen monster & it plays with a lot of philosophical ideologies including utilitarianism. But It's devoid of a character that shows & uses these ideological views.
Monster shows


Thanks for your valuable suggestions. :)

Best Regards.
Feb 20, 2020 11:13 AM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
LostMujahid said:
Since you saw them I will explain why high school of the dead is utilitarian. Now mind you I did not present this but here is a basic rundown. [/Spoiler] Takashi pretty much is the glue the holds the group together. He goes out of his way to keep the group together and maximizes the value they all have to help them survive. Despite rei and saya's lack of fondness for him he still keeps them around. There are other examples in the manga that my classmate mentioned but thats what I remember now.[/Spoiler] If I ever see the guy in my college again I will ask him for his paper and send it you but I doubt it he probably went to another school. Its not a good example but it is I guess an example.


Thanks for the knowledge really appreciate it.
I haven't read the manga of HOTD so I can't say much in this subject.

Thanks again,
Best Regards.
Feb 20, 2020 11:16 AM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
NothingFound said:
Zegapain The anime gets into some philosophy topics you can say the MC or the main villian are Utilitarian, though you may not like the Mecha stuff idk.


FinalReality56 said:
+1 Zegapain

Infinite Ryvius deals with some utilitarian principles as it deals with a group of teenagers as they struggle to maintain order and control when they're left stranded aboard an experimental spaceship


Thanks for your valuable suggestions :)
I will surely checkout:
1) Zegapain
2) Infinite Ryvius

tbh, I am looking for these kind of anime which are not that popular but still portrays utilitarianism in their core essence. :)

Thanks again,
Best Regards.
Feb 20, 2020 11:19 AM

Offline
Feb 2020
20


Thanks for the suggestion,
I have studied the Three Kingdom Wars & was fairly amazed by all the strategies & tactics that general of ancient china came up with.
I will sure give try to
1) Souten Kouro (Beyond the Heavens).

Best Regards.
Feb 20, 2020 1:00 PM

Offline
May 2012
18055
The characters in Hyouge Mono generally act as utility-maximizers. It takes place during the Sengoku, or "Warring States," period and depicts competing warlords and those around them trying to advance in rank.

If you want to try an existentialist anime some time, I recommend Black Lagoon.

Feb 20, 2020 4:54 PM
ᴛʜʀᴇᴀᴅ★ʀᴇᴀᴘᴇʀ

Offline
Dec 2018
8634
chrispandey said:
Fario-P said:
Huh... interesting criteria...


Thank you so much for the recommendations.
I haven't seen sailor moon YET. I always thought of it as episodic anime more targeted for general audience like Dragon Ball Z or Naruto. I will surely give it a shot.

I have seen weathering with you but it doesn't present much with philosophy of utilitarianism to me atleast.
I have also seen monster & it plays with a lot of philosophical ideologies including utilitarianism. But It's devoid of a character that shows & uses these ideological views.
Monster shows


Thanks for your valuable suggestions. :)

Best Regards.

No problem!

If you find the 90s Sailor Moon anime too long though, there's also Sailor Moon Crystal by the way—it's closer to the manga and isn't episodic at all, hence the smaller amount of episodes.

Hmmm I guess you have a good point on Monster there
Feb 20, 2020 5:56 PM

Offline
Oct 2014
6693
Shinsekai yori -- The whole society has been set up as a utilitarian one -- for reasons. Of the three shows I've listed Shinsekai is probably the most suited for your project.

Rurouni Kenshin: Meiji_Kenkaku Romantan - Tsuioku-hen -- Kenshin's decision to become an assassin for the greater good (ie. taking the side of the Imperialists to put an end to the Bakufu).

This last one would be a hard one to present as it's not apparent until the very end of the Refrain sequel. As such there would be a lot of viewing before arriving at what you're after. While watching the sequel you could study the actions of Kyousuke Natsume for possible clues ;)
Little Busters
Little Busters: Refrain
Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :)

Feb 20, 2020 9:24 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
SeijiSensei said:
The characters in Hyouge Mono generally act as utility-maximizers. It takes place during the Sengoku, or "Warring States," period and depicts competing warlords and those around them trying to advance in rank.

If you want to try an existentialist anime some time, I recommend Black Lagoon.


Thanks for the recommendation. I have added 1) Hyouge Mono to my plan to watch list.

I have seen black lagoon & it is indeed a very nihilist & existentialist anime.

Thanks again,
Best Regards.
Feb 20, 2020 9:33 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
8oomer said:
Shinsekai yori -- The whole society has been set up as a utilitarian one -- for reasons. Of the three shows I've listed Shinsekai is probably the most suited for your project.

Rurouni Kenshin: Meiji_Kenkaku Romantan - Tsuioku-hen -- Kenshin's decision to become an assassin for the greater good (ie. taking the side of the Imperialists to put an end to the Bakufu).

This last one would be a hard one to present as it's not apparent until the very end of the Refrain sequel. As such there would be a lot of viewing before arriving at what you're after. While watching the sequel you could study the actions of Kyousuke Natsume for possible clues ;)
Little Busters
Little Busters: Refrain


Thanks for the recommendation.
I have added 1) Shinsekai yori to my watch list. It has been recommended to me many times by friends & colleagues. I will surely watch it.
2) Rurouni Kenshin has been on my watch list for a while & will make sure to give it a try.

I am really surprised by your recommendation of 3)Little Busters! But Madoka Magica did surprised & caught me off guard so I think that "don't judge a book by it's cover" also applies to anime.

Thanks again,


Best Regards.
Feb 23, 2020 11:21 AM

Offline
Nov 2016
1020
Fate/Zero -- Emiya Kiritsugu. The others have already been mentioned.
Feb 23, 2020 11:46 AM

Offline
Mar 2017
1080
@chrispandey hey! I think all the best suggestions have already been mentioned! I think Fate/Zero, Shinsekai Yori, and Psycho-Pass are the best examples.

I can't think of anything else that delves into utilitarianism well.
Feb 23, 2020 12:05 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
Thanakos said:
Fate/Zero -- Emiya Kiritsugu. The others have already been mentioned.

Thanks for your valuable suggestion & for taking the time out! :)

Always wanted to start Fate series, guess I'll have to give it a go!

Best Regards.
Feb 23, 2020 12:06 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
N30-R3TR0 said:
@chrispandey hey! I think all the best suggestions have already been mentioned! I think Fate/Zero, Shinsekai Yori, and Psycho-Pass are the best examples.

I can't think of anything else that delves into utilitarianism well.


I understand. :)
Thanks for replying here.

Best Regards.
Feb 23, 2020 12:14 PM
lagom
Online
Jan 2009
107262
Askeladd of Vinland Saga lol

Feb 23, 2020 12:27 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
deg said:
Askeladd of Vinland Saga lol



Thanks for the suggestion, I tried reaching to you but wasn't able to.
Thankfully you have already suggested.

Best regards.
Feb 23, 2020 12:32 PM

Offline
Jul 2014
1151
Caligula is one of the most direct criticism of utilitarianism.
Happiness being one example of the measurements for utility.

Then the movie Harmony deals with the gamified point system, that rewards people for doing good, in the case of Harmony the measure is being healthy and social.

My other favorites touch on similar philosophical questions, but these two are the most focused on this.
Feb 23, 2020 12:33 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
vivi_chan_ said:
seikai no monshou might fit your criteria


I am very intrigued by your suggestion & will add 1) Seikai no Monshou (Crest of the Stars) on plan to watch list. Seikai no Monshou has very extreme reviews on both the ends.

Thanks,

Best regards.
Feb 23, 2020 12:37 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
Safeanew said:
Caligula is one of the most direct criticism of utilitarianism.
Happiness being one example of the measurements for utility.

Then the movie Harmony deals with the gamified point system, that rewards people for doing good, in the case of Harmony the measure is being healthy and social.

My other favorites touch on similar philosophical questions, but these two are the most focused on this.


Thanks for taking your time out to suggest.
I have added 1) Caligula & 2) Harmony(Movie) to my watchlist.
I don't know why caligula has such bad review here on mal but I guess I can give it a try! :)

Best Regards.
Feb 23, 2020 3:46 PM

Offline
Oct 2012
16077
I think it would be a stretch to say that any self-sacrificial character or character who has ever killed anyone deals in utilitarianism, whether the character believes it, or the show was trying to depict it. Of course, as a third-party looking in onto an event, you could inject a utilitarian narrative over nearly anything. Naruto kills bad guy "for the greater good". Goblin enslaves woman "for the greater good". Someone endures pain to save his friends "for the greater good". Askeladd orders the slaughter of a village "for the greater good".

But was Askeladd a utilitarian, or did he just not give a fuck, or did he just want to protect his own life, so he could enact revenge? I suppose in that instance, (spoilers) his argument about killing someone who would die otherwise suffer a prolonged death could be utilitarian, in that it minimizes pain, but I would hardly use that example to illustrate utilitarianism. There's too much else going on here.

Is anyone who has ever crossed off the organ donation box at the DMV a utilitarian? No, I would suggest that is mostly motivated by virtue ethics than anything.

Is anyone who suffered a blow to protect his group from zombies, villains or ninjas a utilitarian? No, I would suggest that the character thinks that's what he should do -- deontology.

Is anyone who ever killed for pleasure a utilitarian? No, I would suggest most such characters lack moral guidance.

Unfortunately, I cannot come up with any clear utilitarian examples, but I'm sure they exist. In my mind, it must be a character who explicitly states his actions lend to longer term consequences over near-term consequences, and that he believes it not due to some angsty misguided history (e.g. Kiritsugu), and that he actually follows through to the best of his ability (e.g. not Kiritusgu), and that his actions can actually be considered a reasonable possibility of a best outcome -- that the character is congruent to the world and not just crazy.

Unfortunately in anime, a lot of characters are just crazy or a selfless cliche, written with some contrived motivation. The villain in Psycho-Pass wanted to destroy the world to rebuild it. Is that utilitarian? No. Light from Death Note wanted to kill all the "bad" people in the world for the greater good. Is that utilitarian? No, he considered it his duty. Monster is almost an antidote to utilitarianism, since none of the main characters act in any calculated way. Johan just wanted to see the world fall into disarray as a consequence of the psychological trauma he was subjected to. Kenzou just wanted to right his past mistake and bring justice to his name. Maybe you could say his actions are for a greater good, but none of the characters work for a greater good.

Anyways, you get my point.
My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com
THE CHAT CLUB.
Feb 23, 2020 4:28 PM
Feb 23, 2020 11:37 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
katsucats said:
I think it would be a stretch to say that any self-sacrificial character or character who has ever killed anyone deals in utilitarianism, whether the character believes it, or the show was trying to depict it. Of course, as a third-party looking in onto an event, you could inject a utilitarian narrative over nearly anything. Naruto kills bad guy "for the greater good". Goblin enslaves woman "for the greater good". Someone endures pain to save his friends "for the greater good". Askeladd orders the slaughter of a village "for the greater good".

But was Askeladd a utilitarian, or did he just not give a fuck, or did he just want to protect his own life, so he could enact revenge? I suppose in that instance, (spoilers) his argument about killing someone who would die otherwise suffer a prolonged death could be utilitarian, in that it minimizes pain, but I would hardly use that example to illustrate utilitarianism. There's too much else going on here.

Is anyone who has ever crossed off the organ donation box at the DMV a utilitarian? No, I would suggest that is mostly motivated by virtue ethics than anything.

Is anyone who suffered a blow to protect his group from zombies, villains or ninjas a utilitarian? No, I would suggest that the character thinks that's what he should do -- deontology.

Is anyone who ever killed for pleasure a utilitarian? No, I would suggest most such characters lack moral guidance.

Unfortunately, I cannot come up with any clear utilitarian examples, but I'm sure they exist. In my mind, it must be a character who explicitly states his actions lend to longer term consequences over near-term consequences, and that he believes it not due to some angsty misguided history (e.g. Kiritsugu), and that he actually follows through to the best of his ability (e.g. not Kiritusgu), and that his actions can actually be considered a reasonable possibility of a best outcome -- that the character is congruent to the world and not just crazy.

Unfortunately in anime, a lot of characters are just crazy or a selfless cliche, written with some contrived motivation. The villain in Psycho-Pass wanted to destroy the world to rebuild it. Is that utilitarian? No. Light from Death Note wanted to kill all the "bad" people in the world for the greater good. Is that utilitarian? No, he considered it his duty. Monster is almost an antidote to utilitarianism, since none of the main characters act in any calculated way. Johan just wanted to see the world fall into disarray as a consequence of the psychological trauma he was subjected to. Kenzou just wanted to right his past mistake and bring justice to his name. Maybe you could say his actions are for a greater good, but none of the characters work for a greater good.

Anyways, you get my point.


Thanks for pointing out such gem of the arguments, really appreciate it.

However, I must disagree with some of your points here, because the philosophy of Utilitarianism has been almost & always overshadowed by the word "Greater Good".
The term "Greater Good" is a really vague term & can be applied to almost anything.
When I gave these examples of anime which portrays the philosophy Utilitarianism:,

chrispandey said:

Some examples would be:
1) Code geass; Utilitarian-Lelouch lamperouge.
2) Madoka Magica; Utilitarian-Kyubey.
3) Berserk; Utilitarian-Griffith.
4) Death Note; Utilitarian-Light Yagami
5) Legend of the galactic heroes; Utilitarian- Reinhard & Oberstein

It wasn't about the greater good but rather greater good for the whole "HUMANITY" or the whole "Civilisations" of Intelligence(If they exist; Madoka Magica)
How ? Here's a little example,
Eg; Would you nuke a country ? Ofcourse No.
But what if that country is a threat to humanity itself & somehow you know for sure that it is going to destroy & kill everyone.
Then what ? I think then the Extreme act is maybe the only option you have & can be looked as an act of "Utilitarianism".

Thanks again,

Best Regards.
Feb 23, 2020 11:40 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20


Thanks for your valuable suggestions.
I have added 1)Freedom & 2)Terra e... (TV) To my watch list.

Thanks again,

Best Regards.
Feb 24, 2020 2:33 PM

Offline
Oct 2012
16077
chrispandey said:

How ? Here's a little example,
Eg; Would you nuke a country ? Ofcourse No.
But what if that country is a threat to humanity itself & somehow you know for sure that it is going to destroy & kill everyone.
Then what ? I think then the Extreme act is maybe the only option you have & can be looked as an act of "Utilitarianism".
Like I said, you can interpret many situations through the lens of utilitarianism. That's what ethics engineers do when they write scientific papers advising policy. But if the question is what the intent of the characters and the show is, I'm going to take a slight stab in the dark (obviously, I'm not a mind reader) to say that in most of these cases, there was not a cohesive attempt to depict utilitarian philosophy. In the case of Kiritsugu, it was clear that the (in my opinion, pseudo-intellectual) author wanted him to be utilitarian, but it was driven by an angsty motive that, at the end, proved in my mind that he either didn't understand what he was spouting or he didn't truly believe in it. It was almost like when deontology ethicists strawman utilitarianism to show why it's bad.

What's important -- to me -- in ascertaining whether a moral framework was used is the thought process. In your thought process, nuking a country to cause some X amount of pain, but induce Y amount of pleasure, where Y > X, is very utilitarian. But if a character wanted to nuke a country because it is, very vaguely, the "right thing to do", while you could argue that the right thing to do equates to inducing greater amount of pleasure, it is nowhere near clear that the character's own thought process aligns. Most anime characters espouse duty and virtues. Light from Death Note certainly thought he was improving the world, but he considered it his duty, even going as far as referring to himself as some deity, a moral judge. In his mind, criminals should die by virtue of the crime they commit, regardless of any future result. If a reformed criminal is now doing community service, do you agree that Light would kill him regardless? He certainly has never stopped to consider the side effects of his actions, often killing people based on some label in the news.

Is it possible to see a utilitarian perspective from Death Note? Absolutely. But I would argue Light is not himself a utilitarian. He didn't ask himself, If I kill this guy, would it cause sadness through his family, or rejoice through his victims, and which is outweighed by the other? He killed even petty bullies. He's more of a, This guy did something bad so he deserves death, kinda guy.
My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com
THE CHAT CLUB.
Feb 24, 2020 3:55 PM
Offline
Jul 2018
561872
in Death Note, I'd say Mello is more of a utilitarian than Light. I consider Light to be more of an anti-villian than an anti-hero (where all utilitarian characters are anti-heroes, but not all anti-heroes are utilitarian). As the black sheep of the detective family, Mello goes further than either L or Near to thwart Light. Partnering with the mafia, kidnapping... Whatever it takes in the name of justice. Mello's actions ultimately lead to Light's downfall.

I want to say Mumen Rider from One Punch Man is a good example of the ultimate 'warrior of justice'.
Also, Gendo Ikari from NGE would seem to fit the utilitarian portrait, if not for his hidden agenda where he wishes to use Instrumentality to reunite with his wife Yui...

I could be wrong about everything I've said, so take it with a grain of salt.
removed-userFeb 24, 2020 3:59 PM
Feb 25, 2020 9:26 AM

Offline
Jul 2015
2839
chrispandey said:
Thanakos said:
Fate/Zero -- Emiya Kiritsugu. The others have already been mentioned.

Thanks for your valuable suggestion & for taking the time out! :)

Always wanted to start Fate series, guess I'll have to give it a go!

Best Regards.
I second this recommendation, but you might get disappointed at the end. I sure was. Still, fate zero is probably your best bet. That show even has a really edgy trolley problem in it, and the MC actually chooses correctly too. Who would've guessed. In any case, Fate Zero is the only show I remember that explicitly dealt with utilitarianism as a philosophy.


There's a few anime with characters who act utilitarian in a way, although they rarely maximise for happiness, as you'd do in classic utilitarianism. Kiritsugu is one example of a happiness-maximizing MC, but there's also Inuyashiki, where one of the two MCs tries to maximise happiness as well. Although he's not that good at it, I have to say.

For characters with other aims than maximising happiness, try the following:

The most utilitarian character I can think of is Migi, one of two MCs in the anime Parasyte. https://myanimelist.net/anime/22535/Kiseijuu__Sei_no_Kakuritsu
His utility function is all about survival and (somewhat) peaceful coexistence with his host.

Another MC who is similar to Migi in the sense that his sole goal is a peaceful life, is the MC of Ajin. He's far less rational, but if you've watched both you can definitely see the similarities. https://myanimelist.net/anime/31580/Ajin

Then there's Baby steps, where the MCs utility function revolves around getting better at tennis. Most rational sports anime out there for sure.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/21185/Baby_Steps

Goblin Slayer is a show where the MCs utility function is all about eradicating goblins.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/37349/Goblin_Slayer

honorable mention goes to Log Horizon, which has a pretty rational MC as well. He tries to build a flourishing society after a bunch of people have been transported into a game world, with the end goal of somehow getting back to earth.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/17265/Log_Horizon


katsucats said:
In the case of Kiritsugu, it was clear that the (in my opinion, pseudo-intellectual) author wanted him to be utilitarian, but it was driven by an angsty motive that, at the end, proved in my mind that he either didn't understand what he was spouting or he didn't truly believe in it. It was almost like when deontology ethicists strawman utilitarianism to show why it's bad.
Agreed 100%. They realls went with a utilitarian MC just to set him up at the very end and then go "haha, this is why utilitarianism is bad/doesn't work, sucka!!" I'm leaning more towards fucked up strawman than fundamental misunderstanding of the philosophy, which makes it even worse in my mind.

maddest I've ever been watching a show. No idea how you can run so far with a concept and come to the wrong conclusion at the very end, it was incredibly frustrating to watch.
Railey2Feb 25, 2020 9:34 AM
*lampoons inwardly*
Feb 26, 2020 7:13 AM
Offline
Jul 2018
561872
I just read the new death note one-shot and can say we have another true utilitarian character, Minoru Tanaka.

Give it a quick read ~80 pages. Here is one of the official sources to read it from: https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1006371
Mar 3, 2020 7:44 AM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
Korishi said:
in Death Note, I'd say Mello is more of a utilitarian than Light. I consider Light to be more of an anti-villian than an anti-hero (where all utilitarian characters are anti-heroes, but not all anti-heroes are utilitarian). As the black sheep of the detective family, Mello goes further than either L or Near to thwart Light. Partnering with the mafia, kidnapping... Whatever it takes in the name of justice. Mello's actions ultimately lead to Light's downfall.


I can't Agree More, Mello was really more utilitarian than light in every way.
He definitely knew that he was going to do if were to walk that path, but he did it, hence comparing his life with the "greater good" & maximising the utility for the greater good of humanity.

katsucats said:

Most anime characters espouse duty and virtues. Light from Death Note certainly thought he was improving the world, but he considered it his duty, even going as far as referring to himself as some deity, a moral judge. In his mind, criminals should die by virtue of the crime they commit, regardless of any future result. If a reformed criminal is now doing community service, do you agree that Light would kill him regardless? He certainly has never stopped to consider the side effects of his actions, often killing people based on some label in the news.

Is it possible to see a utilitarian perspective from Death Note? Absolutely. But I would argue Light is not himself a utilitarian. He didn't ask himself, If I kill this guy, would it cause sadness through his family, or rejoice through his victims, and which is outweighed by the other? He killed even petty bullies. He's more of a, This guy did something bad so he deserves death, kinda guy.


One could argue that light was also a utilitarian if you look at the long term consequences of light's action. His main motive was to bring the crime rate to 0% on earth by instigating fear in the minds of borderline or wannabe criminals. Therefore, if the crime rate indeed is 0.00% then long term happiness, order & righteousness can be achieved by a civilization for a longer period of time.

I could be wrong but that's how I see light's action & can be justified if you think like this.

Thanks for your valuable thoughts & ideas. I really appreciate them.

Best Regards,

Chris.
Mar 3, 2020 7:47 AM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
Railey2 said:
chrispandey said:

Thanks for your valuable suggestion & for taking the time out! :)

Always wanted to start Fate series, guess I'll have to give it a go!

Best Regards.
I second this recommendation, but you might get disappointed at the end. I sure was. Still, fate zero is probably your best bet. That show even has a really edgy trolley problem in it, and the MC actually chooses correctly too. Who would've guessed. In any case, Fate Zero is the only show I remember that explicitly dealt with utilitarianism as a philosophy.


There's a few anime with characters who act utilitarian in a way, although they rarely maximise for happiness, as you'd do in classic utilitarianism. Kiritsugu is one example of a happiness-maximizing MC, but there's also Inuyashiki, where one of the two MCs tries to maximise happiness as well. Although he's not that good at it, I have to say.

For characters with other aims than maximising happiness, try the following:

The most utilitarian character I can think of is Migi, one of two MCs in the anime Parasyte. https://myanimelist.net/anime/22535/Kiseijuu__Sei_no_Kakuritsu
His utility function is all about survival and (somewhat) peaceful coexistence with his host.

Another MC who is similar to Migi in the sense that his sole goal is a peaceful life, is the MC of Ajin. He's far less rational, but if you've watched both you can definitely see the similarities. https://myanimelist.net/anime/31580/Ajin

Then there's Baby steps, where the MCs utility function revolves around getting better at tennis. Most rational sports anime out there for sure.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/21185/Baby_Steps

Goblin Slayer is a show where the MCs utility function is all about eradicating goblins.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/37349/Goblin_Slayer

honorable mention goes to Log Horizon, which has a pretty rational MC as well. He tries to build a flourishing society after a bunch of people have been transported into a game world, with the end goal of somehow getting back to earth.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/17265/Log_Horizon


katsucats said:
In the case of Kiritsugu, it was clear that the (in my opinion, pseudo-intellectual) author wanted him to be utilitarian, but it was driven by an angsty motive that, at the end, proved in my mind that he either didn't understand what he was spouting or he didn't truly believe in it. It was almost like when deontology ethicists strawman utilitarianism to show why it's bad.
Agreed 100%. They realls went with a utilitarian MC just to set him up at the very end and then go "haha, this is why utilitarianism is bad/doesn't work, sucka!!" I'm leaning more towards fucked up strawman than fundamental misunderstanding of the philosophy, which makes it even worse in my mind.

maddest I've ever been watching a show. No idea how you can run so far with a concept and come to the wrong conclusion at the very end, it was incredibly frustrating to watch.


Thanks for your valuable suggestion I have added 1) Ajin 2) Baby Steps 3) Goblin Slayer 4) Log Horizon to watchlist.

Thanks again,

Best Regards,

Chris.
Mar 3, 2020 8:35 AM
Offline
Jul 2018
561872
@chrispandey is it considered utilitarian if the person's actions are selfishly motivated? for example, in Ajin, the main character has a goal of living a peaceful life only. he doesn't care about the world or anyone else, just himself; he's a real piece of shit in the first season, but the second season is better.

there's many interpretations of utilitarianism so I was wondering which is your preferred definition?
Mar 3, 2020 10:48 AM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
Korishi said:
@chrispandey is it considered utilitarian if the person's actions are selfishly motivated? for example, in Ajin, the main character has a goal of living a peaceful life only. he doesn't care about the world or anyone else, just himself; he's a real piece of shit in the first season, but the second season is better.

there's many interpretations of utilitarianism so I was wondering which is your preferred definition?


I think that every big action is set into motion due to selfish reasons.. atleast at first.
Eg; If we want our loved ones to be safe, the origin of that thought process can be traced back to our own happiness. Therefore I think that all the utilitarian actions are also fueled by selfishness, maybe to satisfy one's ego by saving the world[Light Yagami], maybe to prove to yourself that your are worth more than your predecessor by helping National governments[Near & mellow] etc.
I believe that for every being or person, their survival comes first & hence implying that "they themselves" comes first.

Now My Utilitarian version is probably best acted 1) Reinhard von lohengramm of LOGH.


2) Lelouch vi Britannia of Code geass.


So in a nutshell, My Utilitarianism is that a utilitarian practitioner[eg; lelouch, reinhard etc] takes the path of hardwork, determination, follows his ambitions through the end, & punish himself according to the punishment[If any] he deserves.

Thanks for asking @Korishi, I am also intrigued by your thoughts & would love to know more about your version of Utilitarianism.

Best Regards,

Chris.
Mar 3, 2020 11:11 AM
Offline
Jul 2018
561872
@chrispandey
hm..ok your above post clarifies some misconceptions I had, such as a utilitarian not having to be self-sacrificing since he/she should look after themselves first and foremost in order to carry their plan to fruition.

I think my definition is the same or similar to yours; I always just have had a preconception that a utilitarian sets out to look after other people, but now I'm thinking they are simply looking after their own happiness (be it in the form of friends, family, a nation, or simply a peaceful life for themselves).

You should also really consider reading the short manga I recommended you earlier.
Mar 3, 2020 12:05 PM

Offline
Feb 2020
20
Korishi said:
@chrispandey
hm..ok your above post clarifies some misconceptions I had, such as a utilitarian not having to be self-sacrificing since he/she should look after themselves first and foremost in order to carry their plan to fruition.

I think my definition is the same or similar to yours; I always just have had a preconception that a utilitarian sets out to look after other people, but now I'm thinking they are simply looking after their own happiness (be it in the form of friends, family, a nation, or simply a peaceful life for themselves).

You should also really consider reading the short manga I recommended you earlier.


Thanks for the suggestion, I had already completed the manga.
& I really loved Minoru Tanaka's approach.
The manga also showed how the politicians would choose their life over their countries welfare.
Minoru was really a smart student but in the end was outsmarted by the "Superior Authority", The king Shinigami & his death was a reason because of an irrational rule. :/
That was sad, but overall the one shot was a killer & brought back some old memories.

Thanks again, :)

Best Regards.
Feb 14, 6:22 PM
Offline
Sep 2020
102
i know this is late, but I'd say Ainz from Overlord where he prioritizes his country's happiness over anything lol

More topics from this board

» Manga with good ecchi

ComeTail - Yesterday

6 by Sasori56483 »»
4 hours ago

» Funny anime for adults like The Fable or GTO

ElderNerd - Today

2 by yuhamk »»
Today, 9:52 AM

» Anime with real humans rather than tropes

Vinter - Sep 17

13 by Mega-PoNEO »»
Yesterday, 8:50 PM

» ML is a jerk but then becomes a better

n00n2003 - Sep 25

4 by Yamada_Jakkun »»
Yesterday, 5:48 PM

» Someone have thriller seinen for me?

Gilgagulag - Sep 20

7 by Mazoy »»
Yesterday, 4:35 PM
It’s time to ditch the text file.
Keep track of your anime easily by creating your own list.
Sign Up Login