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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- The idea of a snake on the loose to be caught sounds actually kinda interesting. Nobuanga continues to be an individual with expectations. |
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| They need to bring down this Tsuzuki guy. He's so manipulative. That ending. I wonder what Nobunaga's brother will do. |
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| Kichou leaving was so sad. I don't get it how was Nobunaga so oblivious to his surroundings. |
  “The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!” |
| So Kichou is a man ? Or just a really flat woman ? Still wonder... We saw her chest who looks really like a man chest. But I suppose Kichou is a man because they talk about a heir for Nobunaga and it's impossible. |
Raikiri29 said: So Kichou is a man ? Or just a really flat woman ? Still wonder... We saw her chest who looks really like a man chest. But I suppose Kichou is a man because they talk about a heir for Nobunaga and it's impossible. i kinda wonder myself as well. a part of her chest was shown again in a previous episode but i didn't think much of it but now it was more obvious to me. not sure if you have watched the credits at the end of each episode but she cuts her hair and her chest also appears to be a man's chest in the very beginning. |
Leo said: They need to bring down this Tsuzuki guy. He's so manipulative. That ending. I wonder what Nobunaga's brother will do. i couldn't agree more with you. that guy really gets on my nerves. I hope Nobuyuki does something about it and stops being a puppet. |
JoshsoJB said: cherry_memoir said: i kinda wonder myself as well. a part of her chest was shown again in a previous episode but i didn't think much of it but now it was more obvious to me. not sure if you have watched the credits at the end of each episode but she cuts her hair and her chest also appears to be a man's chest in the very beginning. I was going to bring this up too. She even lacked nipples like dudes usually do in anime. Interesting piece of history if it turns out to be true. On another note, I don't think this show deserves to be this poorly rated. It's at least MAL 7 - 7.25 quality. It's my first Nobunaga anime though and apparently there's a saturation of this story in anime? I guess retellings of the same story can get old but it should be judged independently of the others so people new to the story like me won't avoid it based on ratings that aren't actually about how good it is. exactly!! I don't think that it's historically correct though. I read online that kichou was actually a woman. a very beautiful and intelligent one. I don't know why they changed the story if her being a man in the anime is true. in addition to that, Nobunaga doesn't know already? feels a bit absurd to me. tbh the first time I came across this anime, I thought it was a shounen ai. it kinda is if we take into consideration how Tsuzuki made Nobuyuki his puppet. that would make some people not wanting to watch it. moreover, there are many anime about Nobunaga so people may not be that interested anymore. |
cherry_memoir said: JoshsoJB said: I was going to bring this up too. She even lacked nipples like dudes usually do in anime. Interesting piece of history if it turns out to be true. On another note, I don't think this show deserves to be this poorly rated. It's at least MAL 7 - 7.25 quality. It's my first Nobunaga anime though and apparently there's a saturation of this story in anime? I guess retellings of the same story can get old but it should be judged independently of the others so people new to the story like me won't avoid it based on ratings that aren't actually about how good it is. exactly!! I don't think that it's historically correct though. I read online that kichou was actually a woman. a very beautiful and intelligent one. I don't know why they changed the story if her being a man in the anime is true. in addition to that, Nobunaga doesn't know already? feels a bit absurd to me. tbh the first time I came across this anime, I thought it was a shounen ai. it kinda is if we take into consideration how Tsuzuki made Nobuyuki his puppet. that would make some people not wanting to watch it. moreover, there are many anime about Nobunaga so people may not be that interested anymore. I don't think Kichou is a man. She's a flat-chested woman which is why she was referring to herself as "damaged". She seems to have an inferiority complex because she doesn't look womanly and on top of that, she hasn't been able to get pregnant and thinks she's infertile, making her not an ideal wife for Nobunaga. |
cherry_memoir said: exactly!! I don't think that it's historically correct though. I read online that kichou was actually a woman. a very beautiful and intelligent one. I don't know why they changed the story if her being a man in the anime is true. in addition to that, Nobunaga doesn't know already? feels a bit absurd to me. tbh the first time I came across this anime, I thought it was a shounen ai. it kinda is if we take into consideration how Tsuzuki made Nobuyuki his puppet. that would make some people not wanting to watch it. moreover, there are many anime about Nobunaga so people may not be that interested anymore. Well In the first episode where we see Kichou, Nobunaga heals "her" chest wounds. Than when she went in nobunaga house to be his bride, Nobunaga says to Tsuneoki the he will be murdered by Kichou and that she is a man. Than, I don't know if Kichou really is a man, but if she is, I think that Nobunaga knows it, and apparently doesn't care about it. https://i.postimg.cc/fRgRgbLR/Kochoki-EP-2.png |
MervisSep 3, 2019 2:43 AM
Mervis said: cherry_memoir said: exactly!! I don't think that it's historically correct though. I read online that kichou was actually a woman. a very beautiful and intelligent one. I don't know why they changed the story if her being a man in the anime is true. in addition to that, Nobunaga doesn't know already? feels a bit absurd to me. tbh the first time I came across this anime, I thought it was a shounen ai. it kinda is if we take into consideration how Tsuzuki made Nobuyuki his puppet. that would make some people not wanting to watch it. moreover, there are many anime about Nobunaga so people may not be that interested anymore. Well In the first episode where we see Kichou, Nobunaga heals "her" chest wounds. Than when she went in nobunaga house to be his bride, Nobunaga says to Tsuneoki the he will be murdered by Kichou and that she is a man. Than, I don't know if Kichou really is a man, but if she is, I think that Nobunaga knows it, and apparently doesn't care about it. https://i.postimg.cc/fRgRgbLR/Kochoki-EP-2.png thanks for reminding me :) well, she could actually be a man and like you said Nobunaga doesn't care much . besides he gained an ally and kichou is a very strong opponent. great advantage. |
cherry_memoir said: Mervis said: Well In the first episode where we see Kichou, Nobunaga heals "her" chest wounds. Than when she went in nobunaga house to be his bride, Nobunaga says to Tsuneoki the he will be murdered by Kichou and that she is a man. Than, I don't know if Kichou really is a man, but if she is, I think that Nobunaga knows it, and apparently doesn't care about it. https://i.postimg.cc/fRgRgbLR/Kochoki-EP-2.png thanks for reminding me :) well, she could actually be a man and like you said Nobunaga doesn't care much . besides he gained an ally and kichou is a very strong opponent. great advantage. But you can't forget the conversation between Kichou and Tsuneoki where Tsuneoki says that Kichou can do the one thing he can't for Nobunaga which is to bear children. If Kichou was actually a man, then Tsuneoki would know. Nobunaga thought Kichou was a man at first because he had only seen her chest but later found out she was a woman after all. If Kichou was a man, Nobunaga would not have kept her as his wife. At most, he would have made her a retainer and protected her from her father. A wife's greatest purpose was to bear an heir. |
landofthekwt said: [...] As for male sex partners the Bushido sets the use of sex as a training method between the older samurai mentor and the younger boy who was coming of age as a samurai Such relations were not taboo but expected For that you have to wait for Ranmaru ^^;;; cherry_memoir said: thanks for reminding me :) well, she could actually be a man and like you said Nobunaga doesn't care much . besides he gained an ally and kichou is a very strong opponent. great advantage. Well even in history she was a very good trained fighter, in fact is said that she was fighting alongside her husband til their death (even if she wasn't wear a strange kunoichi costume and she was fight with a naginata and not a tanto). lunarsensitive said: But you can't forget the conversation between Kichou and Tsuneoki where Tsuneoki says that Kichou can do the one thing he can't for Nobunaga which is to bear children. If Kichou was actually a man, then Tsuneoki would know. Nobunaga thought Kichou was a man at first because he had only seen her chest but later found out she was a woman after all. If Kichou was a man, Nobunaga would not have kept her as his wife. At most, he would have made her a retainer and protected her from her father. A wife's greatest purpose was to bear an heir. In the conversation between Kichou and Tsuneoki, she seems to have a pain expresssion when he say that she can gives him an heir, and even in the conversation she have wih Nobunaga after the retainers speculate she could be pregnant, both of them seems to be aware that that is impossible. And even her run from Nobunaga seems a way to admit that she can't gives him an heir and that he must choose another wife (even if Nobunaga had some concubine in life, than it's not something really happened that run from him in the real history). Now I don't say that she is a man... I say that it's particularly misterious. This is an anime, that doesn't mean that Kichou was really a man i the history (well, nobody would know in the history eccept if it was recovered her body, but in the way she died I doubt), but the most part of this anime (eccept the real wars etc) is largely novelized, and than she could be both a man or a women. Doesn't find anything strange in this. |
MervisSep 4, 2019 1:22 AM
Mervis said: In the conversation between Kichou and Tsuneoki, she seems to have a pain expresssion when he say that she can gives him an heir, and even in the conversation she have wih Nobunaga after the retainers speculate she could be pregnant, both of them seems to be aware that that is impossible. And even her run from Nobunaga seems a way to admit that she can't gives him an heir and that he must choose another wife (even if Nobunaga had some concubine in life, than it's not something really happened that run from him in the real history). Now I don't say that she is a man... I say that it's particularly misterious. This is an anime, that doesn't mean that Kichou was really a man i the history (well, nobody would know in the history eccept if it was recovered her body, but in the way she died I doubt), but the most part of this anime (eccept the real wars etc) is largely novelized, and than she could be both a man or a women. Doesn't find anything strange in this. Instead of saying both of them think it's impossible for her to give him an heir, it could just be Kichou being troubled because she hasn't been able to get pregnant after all this time, making it unlikely in her mind that she can get pregnant because she's infertile. It's very common in the world to marry a second wife when the first wife can't get pregnant. It also wouldn't make sense for Nobunaga to not be married to a real woman all this time, and his confusion as to why Kichou was leaving him wouldn't make sense if he knew Kichou was leaving because she was a man. |
| I didn't said that she is a man, I said that I don't know if she is... I don't see a run from nobunaga for that cause something without sense, it is a though from someone in love with a guy, from someone who is convinced that running from him she is doing him a favor even if he doesn't agree with this. Like I said this doesn't mean that she is a he, but that there are many hint of it. |
| In a war-ravaged world, the battles keep going. And the python/snake in the lake punged out with rumours from Tsuzuki, seems that Nobukatsu has already been exhausted from the efforts of Nobunaga, even at a close call. With Kichou's ability both as wife and assassin, it helps a lot without Nobunaga needing to know the concrete details. For someone as broken as Kichou, removing her breasts (forming her many scars) was an act that she wished Nobunaga wouldn't know (but then again, history can be perceived many ways), but then again, her nature of being an assassin (back when she was supposed to kill him in Episode 2) didn't curry her favour with Nobunaga, and fled, leaving Tsuneoki to answer to him. What an episode. |
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| Nobukatsu overheard his evil gay lover's true plan, I wonder what he is gonna do now I still think Kichou is a women and those chest scars are probably from her breast being cutoff but that is my theory |
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Raikiri29 said: So Kichou is a man ? Or just a really flat woman ? Still wonder... We saw her chest who looks really like a man chest. But I suppose Kichou is a man because they talk about a heir for Nobunaga and it's impossible. Probably a hermaphrodite or somebody who didn't develop normally. Also 100% infertile. |
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