UQ Holder
| I don't think I've ever been this excited but also nervous for an anime adaption before, as I am a fan of the manga. But, seeing as the dreaded time is coming, my favorite character, Kuroumaru Tokisaka, is about to appear and since I know what the MAL community is like, I wanted to make one thing clear: Kuroumaru is A BOY. Kuroumaru is a member of the Yatagarasu tribe and their people choose their sex at the age of 16 (referring to their genitals) but there is a difference between sex and gender and even though he is not 16 yet, he already knows he's a boy and identifies as such. He states it numerous times throughout the series, becoming visibly upset and constantly corrects everyone who misgenders him. |
| I definitely completely agree with you. People better not try to say Kuroumaru is a girl when he legit identifies as a boy. I'll be prepared to back you up on threads if this happens on the episode discussions. |
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| It's always a good thing to see a canon trans character. Manga (and, to an extent, anime) have been and should continue to be at the forefront of social issues. Not only can disenfranchised readers finally identify with a similar character, but also it helps to advance society by opening up a dialog about issues that were previously off-limits, regardless of the particular position taken. Simply opening the door to discussion is in itself a great thing. For instance, last season's Koi to Uso (Love and Lies) had a canon gay character. While I wish that character had developed a bit differently, I was happy to see a canon gay character in a non-gay/BL anime for once! Back to UQ Holder!, though, I'll be interested to see how it's addressed in the anime. They may sidestep the trans background altogether if the studio feels it's too risky, which wouldn't be all that surprising. Manga has always pushed limits that anime in general and even the anime adaptation of the same manga are often not comfortable with. I'll comment more when I see how the anime addresses Kuroumaru's character. I've only been mildly active in the forums for the last several months, so I don't know much about the community, but I do know that any community is heterogeneous, which is to say that not everyone thinks and feels the same way about any issue. I'm hopeful that there will be others who understand that Kuroumaru is a boy and say as much. (For one thing, "-maru" is found only in historical boys' names, much like "-suke" these days.) In any case, whatever an author/original work specifically states as canon is canon. |
| ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ “The right to think is the beginning of freedom, and speech must be protected from the government because speech is the beginning of thought.” — Ashcroft v.Free Speech Coalition, ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ |
kyoudai said: Back to UQ Holder!, though, I'll be interested to see how it's addressed in the anime. They may sidestep the trans background altogether if the studio feels it's too risky, which wouldn't be all that surprising. Manga has always pushed limits that anime in general and even the anime adaptation of the same manga are often not comfortable with. I'll comment more when I see how the anime addresses Kuroumaru's character. Well, J.C.Staff are the studio that made Shimoneta, and the director is the same, so they might have enough bravery to keep things as they were in manga. That open lesbian couple in Centaur's Worries last season gives me some optimism about what's safe enough for Japanese TV. kyoudai said: I've only been mildly active in the forums for the last several months, so I don't know much about the community, but I do know that any community is heterogeneous, which is to say that not everyone thinks and feels the same way about any issue. We MAL community can be very heterogenous and easily mix up in arguments over different things, so expect some people to agree with you, and others to disagree with you. kyoudai said: In any case, whatever an author/original work specifically states as canon is canon. The original work depicts Kuroumaru as being of undetermined biological gender, and identifying as male. His personality, however, makes it easy to see him as a female tsundere. And his androgynous looks don't help much, because he looks similar to Sakurazaki Setsuna, a female swordsman from Mahou Sensei Negima. And they even share a swordsmanship school. |
flannan said: True enough. I was pleasantly surprised at how both of those turned out. Anime does seem to be getting closer to manga in terms of boundary-pushing, so maybe we can be hopeful. At least until Tokyo and/or Japan pass another resolution to curb the industry again.Well, J.C.Staff are the studio that made Shimoneta, and the director is the same, so they might have enough bravery to keep things as they were in manga. That open lesbian couple in Centaur's Worries last season gives me some optimism about what's safe enough for Japanese TV. flannan said: Exactly. That's been my experience as well. I have also found the community here usually disagrees with whatever I'm saying, but they're relatively open-minded about seeing things from my position if I give them reasons to do so.We MAL community can be very heterogenous and easily mix up in arguments over different things, so expect some people to agree with you, and others to disagree with you. flannan said: The original work depicts Kuroumaru as being of undetermined biological gender, and identifying as male. His personality, however, makes it easy to see him as a female tsundere. And his androgynous looks don't help much, because he looks similar to Sakurazaki Setsuna, a female swordsman from Mahou Sensei Negima. And they even share a swordsmanship school. I can see how this would be open for viewers to misunderstand or even try to make him female. Everything you're saying though tells me that I'm going to like him... except the tsundere part. I really prefer kuudere. ;-) Does anyone remember how the community felt about Izana from Sidonia no Kishi? Or was everyone too focused on the bad 3D to pay any attention to the characters and plot? Izana was similar to Kuroumaru in some ways, though not so much in others. |
| ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ “The right to think is the beginning of freedom, and speech must be protected from the government because speech is the beginning of thought.” — Ashcroft v.Free Speech Coalition, ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ ✣ |
flannan said: kyoudai said: Back to UQ Holder!, though, I'll be interested to see how it's addressed in the anime. They may sidestep the trans background altogether if the studio feels it's too risky, which wouldn't be all that surprising. Manga has always pushed limits that anime in general and even the anime adaptation of the same manga are often not comfortable with. I'll comment more when I see how the anime addresses Kuroumaru's character. Well, J.C.Staff are the studio that made Shimoneta, and the director is the same, so they might have enough bravery to keep things as they were in manga. That open lesbian couple in Centaur's Worries last season gives me some optimism about what's safe enough for Japanese TV. kyoudai said: I've only been mildly active in the forums for the last several months, so I don't know much about the community, but I do know that any community is heterogeneous, which is to say that not everyone thinks and feels the same way about any issue. We MAL community can be very heterogenous and easily mix up in arguments over different things, so expect some people to agree with you, and others to disagree with you. kyoudai said: In any case, whatever an author/original work specifically states as canon is canon. The original work depicts Kuroumaru as being of undetermined biological gender, and identifying as male. His personality, however, makes it easy to see him as a female tsundere. And his androgynous looks don't help much, because he looks similar to Sakurazaki Setsuna, a female swordsman from Mahou Sensei Negima. And they even share a swordsmanship school. Undetermined sex, which is separate from gender. His personality is far from "female tsundere"... When I think of female tsundere, I think of Taiga from Toradora! and the two are nothing alike, especially when it comes to their feelings for the person they like. His looks may be androgynous but he still presents as masculine. He also, like I said in my original post, consistently corrects people and is visibly/vocally upset when he is misgendered. Honestly, all the character needs to do is state what gender he is and no one can argue no matter what their "opinion" is. |
| "It" doesn't have a "shame" or a "need to defend their chosen gender" because society doesn't "brand" "it" as male or female. Basically, you're trying to apply sexuated/gendered logic to a non-gendered/non-sexuated being. This kind of logic cannot apply to him. Your logic only applies to a male or female by nature who identifies as the opposite, thus they will be automatically understood/branded as their natural birth sex. Your concept of "gender" only applies to beings born with a sex that they don't identify with, in a society where your gender is your sex. |
"Vaut mieux se suffire à soi que finir assoiffé dans le monde des apparences."  |
| You guys lol. Nona this shit matters. All people need to know is that Kuromaru is not a trap, and not a natural girl either. For one, if you know anything about gender psychology, you know that gender is a spectrum; there's "anima", "animus", and everything in between. Sex chosen or not, Kuromaru is 50/50 M/F psychologically speaking (perhaps even closer to 40/60). @Jotakak what @flannan was talking about was female gender tsundere. Tsundere is something that is only really valid in female psychology, so even if it was a complete un-questioned boy, the personality and behaviour is effeminate; it's female psychology. |
GenesisAriaOct 10, 2017 5:26 PM
❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power.  “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: Tsundere is something that is only really valid in female psychology, so even if it was a complete un-questioned boy, the personality and behaviour is effeminate; it's female psychology. Actually, there are plenty of male tsunderes. Look at the characters labelled tsundere by AniDB for some examples: http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2455&reltb=chartb - there are about 2.5 pages worth of male tsunderes. Many of them quite manly, but unwilling to admit to having a soft side like love. |
Tony_SansNom said: "It" doesn't have a "shame" or a "need to defend their chosen gender" because society doesn't "brand" "it" as male or female. Basically, you're trying to apply sexuated/gendered logic to a non-gendered/non-sexuated being. This kind of logic cannot apply to him. Your logic only applies to a male or female by nature who identifies as the opposite, thus they will be automatically understood/branded as their natural birth sex. Your concept of "gender" only applies to beings born with a sex that they don't identify with, in a society where your gender is your sex. Kuroumaru says he is male, a boy. That is his gender. It applies to him. |
flannan said: GenesisAria said: Tsundere is something that is only really valid in female psychology, so even if it was a complete un-questioned boy, the personality and behaviour is effeminate; it's female psychology. Actually, there are plenty of male tsunderes. Look at the characters labelled tsundere by AniDB for some examples: http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2455&reltb=chartb - there are about 2.5 pages worth of male tsunderes. Many of them quite manly, but unwilling to admit to having a soft side like love. flannan said: GenesisAria said: Tsundere is something that is only really valid in female psychology, so even if it was a complete un-questioned boy, the personality and behaviour is effeminate; it's female psychology. Actually, there are plenty of male tsunderes. Look at the characters labelled tsundere by AniDB for some examples: http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2455&reltb=chartb - there are about 2.5 pages worth of male tsunderes. Many of them quite manly, but unwilling to admit to having a soft side like love. Exactly! Lol Vegeta from DBZ has always been an iconic tsundere~ |
flannan said: GenesisAria said: Tsundere is something that is only really valid in female psychology, so even if it was a complete un-questioned boy, the personality and behaviour is effeminate; it's female psychology. Actually, there are plenty of male tsunderes. Look at the characters labelled tsundere by AniDB for some examples: http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2455&reltb=chartb - there are about 2.5 pages worth of male tsunderes. Many of them quite manly, but unwilling to admit to having a soft side like love. You totally missed the point of what i said. I said tsundere is feminine psychology, i didn't say there weren't male tsunderes, it means those males have enough feminine psychology to surface tsundere traits. You're failing to isolate gender from sex etc, as well as that the mind is always a mix of feminine and masculine psychology which is usually dominated by one over the other. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: flannan said: Actually, there are plenty of male tsunderes. Look at the characters labelled tsundere by AniDB for some examples: http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2455&reltb=chartb - there are about 2.5 pages worth of male tsunderes. Many of them quite manly, but unwilling to admit to having a soft side like love. You totally missed the point of what i said. I said tsundere is feminine psychology, i didn't say there weren't male tsunderes, it means those males have enough feminine psychology to surface tsundere traits. You're failing to isolate gender from sex etc, as well as that the mind is always a mix of feminine and masculine psychology which is usually dominated by one over the other. I don't think it's all that useful to divide all psychology into masculine and feminine. But in my opinion, "tsundere" is a masculine trait of trying to be strong and unaffected by emotions. Which became popular among female characters because feminism. |
flannan said: GenesisAria said: You totally missed the point of what i said. I said tsundere is feminine psychology, i didn't say there weren't male tsunderes, it means those males have enough feminine psychology to surface tsundere traits. You're failing to isolate gender from sex etc, as well as that the mind is always a mix of feminine and masculine psychology which is usually dominated by one over the other. I don't think it's all that useful to divide all psychology into masculine and feminine. But in my opinion, "tsundere" is a masculine trait of trying to be strong and unaffected by emotions. Which became popular among female characters because feminism. Not really, the reverse psychology obvious denial thing is 100% feminine flirtatious behaviour. |
| ❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
GenesisAria said: flannan said: I don't think it's all that useful to divide all psychology into masculine and feminine. But in my opinion, "tsundere" is a masculine trait of trying to be strong and unaffected by emotions. Which became popular among female characters because feminism. Not really, the reverse psychology obvious denial thing is 100% feminine flirtatious behaviour. Faking being a tsundere might be called feminine. Being a tsundere isn't. |
| As far as the manga shows, Kuroumaru strikes me much more as someone who *wants* to be a man but might just be a woman who likes the idea but isn't actually one. It's entirely possible he just hasn't realized that he isn't the thing he wants to be. His internal conflict isn't to make his body match his mind, it's to realize what his mind is. Kuroumaru is different from transsexuals in that his gender is entirely psychological and his body literally isn't a factor at all. It all really boils down to what he considers "a man" and "a woman" to be, and then which one he thinks he most identifies with. First he wanted to be a man, then for a while he strongly considered being a woman, and now he wants to be a man. He wavers between the two and he still hasn't made the permanent decision. The whole "he says he's a man so he's a man" thing is garbage since his entire character arc is trying to decide if what he wants to be is what he is, or if he's trying to be something he's not. It's entirely possible that he'll have an epiphany in the future and decides that he truly is a woman at heart. So basically: Don't be a dumbass and yell at people for considering him x or y, currently he's both and neither and nobody knows how he'll turn out. (Looking at you, Jotakak <.<) |
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Rindel said: As far as the manga shows, Kuroumaru strikes me much more as someone who *wants* to be a man but might just be a woman who likes the idea but isn't actually one. It's entirely possible he just hasn't realized that he isn't the thing he wants to be. His internal conflict isn't to make his body match his mind, it's to realize what his mind is. Kuroumaru is different from transsexuals in that his gender is entirely psychological and his body literally isn't a factor at all. It all really boils down to what he considers "a man" and "a woman" to be, and then which one he thinks he most identifies with. First he wanted to be a man, then for a while he strongly considered being a woman, and now he wants to be a man. He wavers between the two and he still hasn't made the permanent decision. The whole "he says he's a man so he's a man" thing is garbage since his entire character arc is trying to decide if what he wants to be is what he is, or if he's trying to be something he's not. It's entirely possible that he'll have an epiphany in the future and decides that he truly is a woman at heart. So basically: Don't be a dumbass and yell at people for considering him x or y, currently he's both and neither and nobody knows how he'll turn out. (Looking at you, Jotakak <.<) There's a difference between sex and gender. He already knows what his gender is and he has never questioned how he *felt* but rather considered becoming a woman and for one reason only... *drum roll* because of his feelings for Touta and that's only because EVERY SINGLE OTHER CHARACTER HAS PRESSURED HIM ABOUT IT, SAYING IT WAS HIS ONLY CHANCE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALSO HOMOPHOBIC AF. He already tried it out and had his "epiphany" and decided he wanted his body to develop male like his mind after all, despite his feelings for the MC. I'm not being a dumbass since everyone I'm referring to are just twats who don't know a thing about gender and are just being transphobic af while speaking out of their asses. (Looking at you Rindel) It's not that hard to accept a character and not question them about how they feel/choose to identify. If the author ever did do something completely idiotic and go against his entire character later in the series and he wanted to be referred to as a girl then by all means but until then, to think he's lying or doesn't know himself better than everyone else is ridiculous. |
Jotakak said: There's a difference between sex and gender. He already knows what his gender is and he has never questioned how he *felt* but rather considered becoming a woman and for one reason only... *drum roll* because of his feelings for Touta and that's only because EVERY SINGLE OTHER CHARACTER HAS PRESSURED HIM ABOUT IT, SAYING IT WAS HIS ONLY CHANCE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALSO HOMOPHOBIC AF. He already tried it out and had his "epiphany" and decided he wanted his body to develop male like his mind after all, despite his feelings for the MC. I'm not being a dumbass since everyone I'm referring to are just twats who don't know a thing about gender and are just being transphobic af while speaking out of their asses. (Looking at you Rindel) It's not that hard to accept a character and not question them about how they feel/choose to identify. If the author ever did do something completely idiotic and go against his entire character later in the series and hr wanted to be referred to as a girl then by all means but until then, to think he's lying or doesn't know himself better than everyone else is ridiculous. You're talking completely out of your self-entitled ass. You've pretty much just assumed what you want him to be and anyone who disagrees is a transphobic asshole. Doesn't matter to you that the issue of what Kuroumaru decides to be hasn't been resolved yet, you KNOW what he is and everyone else is wrong! Saying you're full of shit isn't the same as being transphobic by the way. Literally no one here has said anything transphobic, you're just throwing the word around because you feel offended that not everyone thinks your opinions is universal fact. |
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Rindel said: Jotakak said: There's a difference between sex and gender. He already knows what his gender is and he has never questioned how he *felt* but rather considered becoming a woman and for one reason only... *drum roll* because of his feelings for Touta and that's only because EVERY SINGLE OTHER CHARACTER HAS PRESSURED HIM ABOUT IT, SAYING IT WAS HIS ONLY CHANCE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALSO HOMOPHOBIC AF. He already tried it out and had his "epiphany" and decided he wanted his body to develop male like his mind after all, despite his feelings for the MC. I'm not being a dumbass since everyone I'm referring to are just twats who don't know a thing about gender and are just being transphobic af while speaking out of their asses. (Looking at you Rindel) It's not that hard to accept a character and not question them about how they feel/choose to identify. If the author ever did do something completely idiotic and go against his entire character later in the series and hr wanted to be referred to as a girl then by all means but until then, to think he's lying or doesn't know himself better than everyone else is ridiculous. You're talking completely out of your self-entitled ass. You've pretty much just assumed what you want him to be and anyone who disagrees is a transphobic asshole. Doesn't matter to you that the issue of what Kuroumaru decides to be hasn't been resolved yet, you KNOW what he is and everyone else is wrong! Saying you're full of shit isn't the same as being transphobic by the way. Literally no one here has said anything transphobic, you're just throwing the word around because you feel offended that not everyone thinks your opinions is universal fact. He's already come to terms and decided and has consistently stated he is male so that's not an opinion, it's a fact. Everyone else is making assumptions that have no substance. Also, calling characters traps like in the main discussion thread or saying he's not male because of his body is transphobic. Literally denying his identity is transphobic.👌👌 |
Rindel said: Jotakak said: There's a difference between sex and gender. He already knows what his gender is and he has never questioned how he *felt* but rather considered becoming a woman and for one reason only... *drum roll* because of his feelings for Touta and that's only because EVERY SINGLE OTHER CHARACTER HAS PRESSURED HIM ABOUT IT, SAYING IT WAS HIS ONLY CHANCE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALSO HOMOPHOBIC AF. He already tried it out and had his "epiphany" and decided he wanted his body to develop male like his mind after all, despite his feelings for the MC. I'm not being a dumbass since everyone I'm referring to are just twats who don't know a thing about gender and are just being transphobic af while speaking out of their asses. (Looking at you Rindel) It's not that hard to accept a character and not question them about how they feel/choose to identify. If the author ever did do something completely idiotic and go against his entire character later in the series and hr wanted to be referred to as a girl then by all means but until then, to think he's lying or doesn't know himself better than everyone else is ridiculous. You're talking completely out of your self-entitled ass. You've pretty much just assumed what you want him to be and anyone who disagrees is a transphobic asshole. Doesn't matter to you that the issue of what Kuroumaru decides to be hasn't been resolved yet, you KNOW what he is and everyone else is wrong! Saying you're full of shit isn't the same as being transphobic by the way. Literally no one here has said anything transphobic, you're just throwing the word around because you feel offended that not everyone thinks your opinions is universal fact. I think you're the one talking out your ass. Even up to date in the manga, we see Kuromaru's thoughts and feelings and he identifies as a boy and corrects anyone that tries saying otherwise, even with people trying and events trying to make him doubt it (The biggest being he thinks a boy can't be in love with another boy which is horse shit). Calling him a she is completely going against his identity currently, and if he really was here he would be correcting everyone in the thread discussions just like he does in the manga. |
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RakkaKaze said: Kuromaru is physically traitless, bearing no primary nor secondary sex traits. The gender/sex argument is completely null and void here, the sex BECOMES the gender. [He] (for ease of pronoun) has stated that which point a gender is decided, (through what means a decision is made is unknown) he will develop those traits. Kuromaru has stated that he recognizes the 'warrior' aspect as being male, and originally he wanted to go down that path, however he sees the potential for not needing to go down that route and choosing female instead. Being raised as a fighter, he will naturally incline the male aspects. His primary conflict is, does he want to be an fighter with a close bond to a friend and rival, or does he want to have a more traditional relationship? Right out of the gate they show him as having very traditionalist views; family, honor, code, partnership to beget more. His insecurity with his lack of conviction is what makes him correct others of his identity, because he wants to portray strength that he views as being a male trait. The idea of being feminine has obviously not been anything considered until recently (in his lifetime), which again, causes the insecurity. -:HE DOES NOT HAVE A PROGRESSIVE MINDSET:- Keep in mind, the primary reason he even originally follows the story crowd, is that he literally has no where else to go that he believes would accept him, and worst case scenario he can complete his original faux-mission and technically be readmitted to his home. The original point was a lose-win compromise. Kuromaru is not 'trans', 'potentially gay' or anything. He is 'gender-unset', and once that changes he will most likely become a 'best-bro' to Touta (which he basically already is) or if deemed self-worthy (or has some kind of groundbreaking loss of will to fight), potential wife, by his traditionalist views. He likely will be left in this unknown state until the end of the series, as it would cause a fluctuation in the 'one-true' gags that Akamatsu has had since Love Hina. There is no homo/trans/whateverphobia in play, this is how the character/story has been laid out. (This is keeping in mind I'm about 10 ch from current in Manga, also owning full set of Negima/Love Hina) Finally, someone intelligent! This right here is what SJWs like Jotakak doesn't seem to understand about Kuroumaru. He's not a trans person fighting for his right to be trans, he's a non-gender person trying to figure out for certain which side of the "line" he feels he most belongs to before the time comes for him to choose decisively. The only difference between where you are in the story and the present chapters is (not spoiling anything) that he's currently firmly in the "I want to be Touta's buddy and that would be a man, probably" camp. If nothing else happens with him then that is likely what he'll choose, but you'd have to be truly stupid to seriously believe he's not going to waver again. There's no way his character arc is already completely done with. Jotakak said: He's already come to terms and decided and has consistently stated he is male so that's not an opinion, it's a fact. Everyone else is making assumptions that have no substance. Also, calling characters traps like in the main discussion thread or saying he's not male because of his body is transphobic. Literally denying his identity is transphobic.👌👌 He's currently decided it would be best to be a boy, yes, but that does not mean it's the eternal state of things. The moment of decision isn't until he has to make the physical transformation, and all sorts of things can happen until then. To say that he has no desire to be female at all is to be a dumbass, as Kuroumaru has clearly shown he enjoys being a woman very much despite himself. It just so happens that his current conviction is that he should be a man. If you don't think he will ever question his desire again then you're just being stubborn because you don't want it to happen. Kuroumaru is still very much undecided, he just leans powerfully towards being a man *at the moment.* Oh, and calling an androgynous looking man a trap is not transphobic and not derogatory. I know that triggers you like a MF to hear, but it's the simple truth and believing otherwise is ignorant and beyond stupid. Whatever offense you take from it is your own imagined insult, and nothing more. (Hilariously much more so considering Akamatsu wrote his introduction in such a way as to make him a LITERAL trap. Maybe read it again?) Oh, and the reason I think you're an asshole is that you literally went around in the episode discussion thread preaching about how Kuroumaru is definitely a boy when the anime audience is SUPPOSED to not know at this point. He's INTENTIONALLY made ambiguous, you're hurting the narrative and spoiling the joke you dumbass. You even triple posted responses to specific people to correct them with your opinion ffs. That tells me you're a person who's very desperate to get people to agree with you, not even willing to wait for the appropriate time in the story to preach "the truth." |
RindelOct 13, 2017 10:53 PM
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Rindel said: RakkaKaze said: Kuromaru is physically traitless, bearing no primary nor secondary sex traits. The gender/sex argument is completely null and void here, the sex BECOMES the gender. [He] (for ease of pronoun) has stated that which point a gender is decided, (through what means a decision is made is unknown) he will develop those traits. Kuromaru has stated that he recognizes the 'warrior' aspect as being male, and originally he wanted to go down that path, however he sees the potential for not needing to go down that route and choosing female instead. Being raised as a fighter, he will naturally incline the male aspects. His primary conflict is, does he want to be an fighter with a close bond to a friend and rival, or does he want to have a more traditional relationship? Right out of the gate they show him as having very traditionalist views; family, honor, code, partnership to beget more. His insecurity with his lack of conviction is what makes him correct others of his identity, because he wants to portray strength that he views as being a male trait. The idea of being feminine has obviously not been anything considered until recently (in his lifetime), which again, causes the insecurity. -:HE DOES NOT HAVE A PROGRESSIVE MINDSET:- Keep in mind, the primary reason he even originally follows the story crowd, is that he literally has no where else to go that he believes would accept him, and worst case scenario he can complete his original faux-mission and technically be readmitted to his home. The original point was a lose-win compromise. Kuromaru is not 'trans', 'potentially gay' or anything. He is 'gender-unset', and once that changes he will most likely become a 'best-bro' to Touta (which he basically already is) or if deemed self-worthy (or has some kind of groundbreaking loss of will to fight), potential wife, by his traditionalist views. He likely will be left in this unknown state until the end of the series, as it would cause a fluctuation in the 'one-true' gags that Akamatsu has had since Love Hina. There is no homo/trans/whateverphobia in play, this is how the character/story has been laid out. (This is keeping in mind I'm about 10 ch from current in Manga, also owning full set of Negima/Love Hina) Finally, someone intelligent! This right here is what SJWs like Jotakak doesn't seem to understand about Kuroumaru. He's not a trans person fighting for his right to be trans, he's a non-gender person trying to figure out for certain which side of the "line" he feels he most belongs to before the time comes for him to choose decisively. The only difference between where you are in the story and the present chapters is (not spoiling anything) that he's currently firmly in the "I want to be Touta's buddy and that would be a man, probably" camp. If nothing else happens with him then that is likely what he'll choose, but you'd have to be truly stupid to seriously believe he's not going to waver again. There's no way his character arc is already completely done with. Jotakak said: He's already come to terms and decided and has consistently stated he is male so that's not an opinion, it's a fact. Everyone else is making assumptions that have no substance. Also, calling characters traps like in the main discussion thread or saying he's not male because of his body is transphobic. Literally denying his identity is transphobic.👌👌 He's currently decided it would be best to be a boy, yes, but that does not mean it's the eternal state of things. The moment of decision isn't until he has to make the physical transformation, and all sorts of things can happen until then. To say that he has no desire to be female at all is to be a dumbass, as Kuroumaru has clearly shown he enjoys being a woman very much despite himself. It just so happens that his current conviction is that he should be a man. If you don't think he will ever question his desire again then you're just being stubborn because you don't want it to happen. Kuroumaru is still very much undecided, he just leans powerfully towards being a man *at the moment.* Oh, and calling an androgynous looking man a trap is not transphobic and not derogatory. I know that triggers you like a MF to hear, but it's the simple truth and believing otherwise is ignorant and beyond stupid. Whatever offense you take from it is your own imagined insult, and nothing more. (Hilariously much more so considering Akamatsu wrote his introduction in such a way as to make him a LITERAL trap. Maybe read it again?) Oh, and the reason I think you're an asshole is that you literally went around in the episode discussion thread preaching about how Kuroumaru is definitely a boy when the anime audience is SUPPOSED to not know at this point. He's INTENTIONALLY made ambiguous, you're hurting the narrative and spoiling the joke you dumbass. You even triple posted responses to specific people to correct them with your opinion ffs. That tells me you're a person who's very desperate to get people to agree with you, not even willing to wait for the appropriate time in the story to preach "the truth." Trap is definitely a derogatory term stemming from homophobic mindsets, to say otherwise is fucking ignorant. It's a way of saying that person/character is tricking guys into being attracted to them or having sex with them. |
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RakkaKaze said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: I think you're the one talking out your ass. Even up to date in the manga, we see Kuromaru's thoughts and feelings and he identifies as a boy and corrects anyone that tries saying otherwise, even with people trying and events trying to make him doubt it (The biggest being he thinks a boy can't be in love with another boy which is horse shit). Calling him a she is completely going against his identity currently, and if he really was here he would be correcting everyone in the thread discussions just like he does in the manga. Kuromaru is physically traitless, bearing no primary nor secondary sex traits. The gender/sex argument is completely null and void here, the sex BECOMES the gender. [He] (for ease of pronoun) has stated that which point a gender is decided, (through what means a decision is made is unknown) he will develop those traits. Kuromaru has stated that he recognizes the 'warrior' aspect as being male, and originally he wanted to go down that path, however he sees the potential for not needing to go down that route and choosing female instead. Being raised as a fighter, he will naturally incline the male aspects. His primary conflict is, does he want to be an fighter with a close bond to a friend and rival, or does he want to have a more traditional relationship? Right out of the gate they show him as having very traditionalist views; family, honor, code, partnership to beget more. His insecurity with his lack of conviction is what makes him correct others of his identity, because he wants to portray strength that he views as being a male trait. The idea of being feminine has obviously not been anything considered until recently (in his lifetime), which again, causes the insecurity. -:HE DOES NOT HAVE A PROGRESSIVE MINDSET:- Keep in mind, the primary reason he even originally follows the story crowd, is that he literally has no where else to go that he believes would accept him, and worst case scenario he can complete his original faux-mission and technically be readmitted to his home. The original point was a lose-win compromise. Kuromaru is not 'trans', 'potentially gay' or anything. He is 'gender-unset', and once that changes he will most likely become a 'best-bro' to Touta (which he basically already is) or if deemed self-worthy (or has some kind of groundbreaking loss of will to fight), potential wife, by his traditionalist views. He likely will be left in this unknown state until the end of the series, as it would cause a fluctuation in the 'one-true' gags that Akamatsu has had since Love Hina. There is no homo/trans/whateverphobia in play, this is how the character/story has been laid out. (This is keeping in mind I'm about 10 ch from current in Manga, also owning full set of Negima/Love Hina) Why you choose this to be your first forum post in 8 years is beyond me because it leads me to believe you're just somebody's alt account. Gender isn't the same thing as sex. Gender is a state of mind, not what the body is, so yes it does apply to Kuroumaru because he IDENTIFIES as a boy. |
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Aiko_Hiroshi said: Trap is definitely a derogatory term stemming from homophobic mindsets, to say otherwise is fucking ignorant. It's a way of saying that person/character is tricking guys into being attracted to them or having sex with them. There's valid logic in that trail of thoughts so it sounds so easy to believe, doesn't it? Too bad it's Entertainingly Wrong. Calling someone a trap has nothing to do with their intentions, it simply refers to the event of having been tricked by a man's feminine looks into believing they're a woman. It's a proverbial trap that you can fall into regardless of the "trap's" will in the matter, because what fools you isn't their will. It's their appearance without clarification to the contrary. Calling someone a trap does not imply any malicious intent on behalf of the trap or the speaker, it's simply a humorously phrased statement of a situation which the speaker has found them self in. They were tricked by someone's appearance regardless of that person's intentions. Considering this offensive was not even a thing until recently, when SJWs who don't get it started getting up in arms about imagined offenses and propagating the bullshit that is "trap is a derogatory term." Aiko_Hiroshi said: Gender isn't the same thing as sex. Gender is a state of mind, not what the body is, so yes it does apply to Kuroumaru because he IDENTIFIES as a boy. If you think biology isn't a factor in gender identity then you're a grade A fool. |
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Rindel said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: Trap is definitely a derogatory term stemming from homophobic mindsets, to say otherwise is fucking ignorant. It's a way of saying that person/character is tricking guys into being attracted to them or having sex with them. There's valid logic in that trail of thoughts so it sounds so easy to believe, doesn't it? Too bad it's Entertainingly Wrong. Calling someone a trap has nothing to do with their intentions, it simply refers to the event of having been tricked by a man's feminine looks into believing they're a woman. It's a proverbial trap that you can fall into regardless of the "trap's" will in the matter, because what fools you isn't their will. It's their appearance without clarification to the contrary. Calling someone a trap does not imply any malicious intent on behalf of the trap or the speaker, it's simply a humorously phrased statement of a situation which the speaker has found them self in. They were tricked by someone's appearance regardless of that person's intentions. Considering this offensive was not even a thing until recently, when SJWs who don't get it started getting up in arms about imagined offenses and propagating the bullshit that is "trap is a derogatory term." Aiko_Hiroshi said: Gender isn't the same thing as sex. Gender is a state of mind, not what the body is, so yes it does apply to Kuroumaru because he IDENTIFIES as a boy. If you think biology isn't a factor in gender identity then you're a grade A fool. It's pointless arguing with the toxic shit you're spewing out so this is where I'll end it because it's clear you only came into this thread to personally attack Jotakak. You're throwing around the term SJW like it means something and thinking that's enough to propel your argument forward when all you're doing is digging a deeper hole for yourself. We'll agree to disagree on the gender topic because all that'll happen is that we'll both end up getting banned from MAL. |
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RakkaKaze said: Because I used this site as a lolzy 'what I've watched' until I stopped caring to update it. I'm pretty sure my name anywhere else is still the same, non-alt name. Also, please make a case where Kuromaru has a set gender or sex, because if you read anything, you'd notice I've addressed this, as he does not have either. To have a gender for Kuromaru is to have a sex. Once he chooses one, that's it, he is now that. No backsies. IT'S CALLED MAGIC. He identifies as 'wanting to be masculine' not 'as a boy' or anything else in the 'current state' of story. If he identified as one or the other, he would be that or the other. Done deal. Whatever you say, and you just so happen to choose to finally talk on a thread now? *Shrugs* Also in regards to Kuroumaru, he literally says "I'm a man!" at multiple points throughout the series. That's identifying as a male. That's it, period. His words trumps anything you're trying to argue. Gender isn't tied to sex, at least from what I and many others believe. |
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Aiko_Hiroshi said: Rindel said: There's valid logic in that trail of thoughts so it sounds so easy to believe, doesn't it? Too bad it's Entertainingly Wrong. Calling someone a trap has nothing to do with their intentions, it simply refers to the event of having been tricked by a man's feminine looks into believing they're a woman. It's a proverbial trap that you can fall into regardless of the "trap's" will in the matter, because what fools you isn't their will. It's their appearance without clarification to the contrary. Calling someone a trap does not imply any malicious intent on behalf of the trap or the speaker, it's simply a humorously phrased statement of a situation which the speaker has found them self in. They were tricked by someone's appearance regardless of that person's intentions. Considering this offensive was not even a thing until recently, when SJWs who don't get it started getting up in arms about imagined offenses and propagating the bullshit that is "trap is a derogatory term." If you think biology isn't a factor in gender identity then you're a grade A fool. It's pointless arguing with the toxic shit you're spewing out so this is where I'll end it because it's clear you only came into this thread to personally attack Jotakak. You're throwing around the term SJW like it means something and thinking that's enough to propel your argument forward when all you're doing is digging a deeper hole for yourself. We'll agree to disagree on the gender topic because all that'll happen is that we'll both end up getting banned from MAL. Biology is a factor in Gender Identity. Like how men are males and women are females. |
Aiko_Hiroshi said: It's pointless arguing with the toxic shit you're spewing out so this is where I'll end it because it's clear you only came into this thread to personally attack Jotakak. You're throwing around the term SJW like it means something and thinking that's enough to propel your argument forward when all you're doing is digging a deeper hole for yourself. We'll agree to disagree on the gender topic because all that'll happen is that we'll both end up getting banned from MAL. Aiko_Hiroshi said: Whatever you say, and you just so happen to choose to finally talk on a thread now? *Shrugs* Also in regards to Kuroumaru, he literally says "I'm a man!" at multiple points throughout the series. That's identifying as a male. That's it, period. His words trumps anything you're trying to argue. Gender isn't tied to sex, at least from what I and many others believe. You're disgustingly irrational. You see 1+1 and think it's 4, and everyone arguing otherwise is wrong and stupid. Your posts are toxic to the well-being of this topic, please better yourself or leave. |
| ┬┴┬┴┤ ͜ʖ ͡°) KonoSuba is overrated~ ┬┴┬┴┤ ͜ʖ^) Fanservice is a good thing~ |
Nyu said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: It's pointless arguing with the toxic shit you're spewing out so this is where I'll end it because it's clear you only came into this thread to personally attack Jotakak. You're throwing around the term SJW like it means something and thinking that's enough to propel your argument forward when all you're doing is digging a deeper hole for yourself. We'll agree to disagree on the gender topic because all that'll happen is that we'll both end up getting banned from MAL. Biology is a factor in Gender Identity. Like how men are males and women are females. Oh so you don't believe in transgender people huh? God this thread once again convinces me of how cancerous the community is here. |
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Aiko_Hiroshi said: Oh so you don't believe in transgender people huh? God this thread once again convinces me of how cancerous the community is here. Transgender people obviously exist. But it's a mental illness, Gender dysphoria. Also, just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean the community is toxic. |
Rindel said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: It's pointless arguing with the toxic shit you're spewing out so this is where I'll end it because it's clear you only came into this thread to personally attack Jotakak. You're throwing around the term SJW like it means something and thinking that's enough to propel your argument forward when all you're doing is digging a deeper hole for yourself. We'll agree to disagree on the gender topic because all that'll happen is that we'll both end up getting banned from MAL. Aiko_Hiroshi said: Whatever you say, and you just so happen to choose to finally talk on a thread now? *Shrugs* Also in regards to Kuroumaru, he literally says "I'm a man!" at multiple points throughout the series. That's identifying as a male. That's it, period. His words trumps anything you're trying to argue. Gender isn't tied to sex, at least from what I and many others believe. You're disgustingly irrational. You see 1+1 and think it's 4, and everyone arguing otherwise is wrong and stupid. Your posts are toxic to the well-being of this topic, please better yourself or leave. After calling Jotakak an asshole multiple times in two different threads you're the one that shouldn't be here anymore. I'm actually angry now though and can't wait to see you get hit by a mod for your earlier comments. You go out of your way to personally attack people on the opposite side of the discussion and that discredits any kind of intelligent argument think you have. I already told you I'm done talking to you though, so stop quoting me after this because I will not respond back to you. |
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Nyu said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: Oh so you don't believe in transgender people huh? God this thread once again convinces me of how cancerous the community is here. Transgender people obviously exist. But it's a mental illness, Gender dysphoria. Also, just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean the community is toxic. It's not a mental illness and the fact you and others still believe that is the very definition of toxic. I do find it funny that you're making it sound like I'm the one that doesn't accept other people's opinions but the way you're stating your stance on gender identity as absolute fact makes it seem like there aren't opposing sides even in science which is just outright untrue even just looking at this one reddit thread on the topic of scientists planning a series of AMAs: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/6p5vcd/rscience_preemptively_warns_against_labeling/ This isn't just about having a different opinion, this concerns people in my life who are important to me and that are transgender. |
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Aiko_Hiroshi said: Nyu said: Transgender people obviously exist. But it's a mental illness, Gender dysphoria. Also, just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean the community is toxic. It's not a mental illness and the fact you and others still believe that is the very definition of toxic. I do find it funny that you're making it sound like I'm the one that doesn't accept other people's opinions but the way you're stating your stance on gender identity as absolute fact makes it seem like there aren't opposing sides even in science which is just outright untrue even just looking at this one reddit thread on the topic of scientists planning a series of AMAs: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/6p5vcd/rscience_preemptively_warns_against_labeling/ This isn't just about having a different opinion, this concerns people in my life who are important to me and that are transgender. The Scientific community considers it a mental illness, because it is a mental illness. And people like you shouldn't be encouraging others that it isn't. You don't go around encouraging Schizophrenic people to not take their medicine. Because it's bad if they don't they could get hurt or ruin their life. You encouraging people that it's not a mental illness is bad because it legitimises barbaric procedures like mutilation. |
RakkaKaze said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: Whatever you say, and you just so happen to choose to finally talk on a thread now? *Shrugs* Also in regards to Kuroumaru, he literally says "I'm a man!" at multiple points throughout the series. That's identifying as a male. That's it, period. His words trumps anything you're trying to argue. Gender isn't tied to sex, at least from what I and many others believe. You can believe whatever you want, we aren't in the UQ/Negima universe, our rules don't apply there. His word is many things, if it was an absolute, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, because he'd be male. This is basic logic, and the logic that has been supplied to us. Please provide something that counters this? And yes, usually most threads are just, this animu is great/sucks. Shame on me that I join in on an objective subject that some people are taking to be subjective, like most of the threads here. Hah, that's like saying this was the first thread like this in 8 years to participate in which is definitely not the case. You literally have nothing to back you up and make me think you're NOT a troll alt account. I mean like you just tried telling me, somebody's word isn't the be all end all. Your argument is literally just going "no, real world sensibilities don't apply in this fictional story" over and over without providing a reason for why something like Kuroumaru saying and believing he's a man is false. If it's just because his sex is undetermined then isn't that you trying to use your own real world rules to say he's not a male? Please provide something that counters this? |
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Nyu said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: It's not a mental illness and the fact you and others still believe that is the very definition of toxic. I do find it funny that you're making it sound like I'm the one that doesn't accept other people's opinions but the way you're stating your stance on gender identity as absolute fact makes it seem like there aren't opposing sides even in science which is just outright untrue even just looking at this one reddit thread on the topic of scientists planning a series of AMAs: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/6p5vcd/rscience_preemptively_warns_against_labeling/ This isn't just about having a different opinion, this concerns people in my life who are important to me and that are transgender. The Scientific community considers it a mental illness, because it is a mental illness. And people like you shouldn't be encouraging others that it isn't. You don't go around encouraging Schizophrenic people to not take their medicine. Because it's bad if they don't they could get hurt or ruin their life. You encouraging people that it's not a mental illness is bad because it legitimises barbaric procedures like mutilation. Hah oh this is rich. You're a closed minded bigot of a person and you've convinced me of that in literally three posts. Funny how it's legal and mostly completely safe for many transgender people to get surgery to feel more at home in their own body. Also no, the science community isn't in complete agreement about anything concerning transgender people and classifying it as a mental illness so trying to use them as crutch to push your closed minded bullshit isn't going to help anyone here. |
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Aiko_Hiroshi said: Nyu said: The Scientific community considers it a mental illness, because it is a mental illness. And people like you shouldn't be encouraging others that it isn't. You don't go around encouraging Schizophrenic people to not take their medicine. Because it's bad if they don't they could get hurt or ruin their life. You encouraging people that it's not a mental illness is bad because it legitimises barbaric procedures like mutilation. Hah oh this is rich. You're a closed minded bigot of a person and you've convinced me of that in literally three posts. Funny how it's legal and mostly completely safe for many transgender people to get surgery to feel more at home in their own body. Also no, the science community isn't in complete agreement about anything concerning transgender people and classifying it as a mental illness so trying to use them as crutch to push your closed minded bullshit isn't going to help anyone here. So anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot. That sounds very narrow minded. The majority of the Scientific community considers it a mental illness, and the only support for those who consider it not a mental illness are doing it for political correctness. |
RakkaKaze said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: Hah oh this is rich. You're a closed minded bigot of a person and you've convinced me of that in literally three posts. Funny how it's legal and mostly completely safe for many transgender people to get surgery to feel more at home in their own body. Also no, the science community isn't in complete agreement about anything concerning transgender people and classifying it as a mental illness so trying to use them as crutch to push your closed minded bullshit isn't going to help anyone here. Aiko_Hiroshi said: Hah, that's like saying this was the first thread like this in 8 years to participate in which is definitely not the case. You literally have nothing to back you up and make me think you're NOT a troll alt account. I mean like you just tried telling me, somebody's word isn't the be all end all. Your argument is literally just going "no, real world sensibilities don't apply in this fictional story" over and over without providing a reason for why something like Kuroumaru saying and believing he's a man is false. If it's just because his sex is undetermined then isn't that you trying to use your own real world rules to say he's not a male? Please provide something that counters this? Calls me the troll... Takes the given logic, that we have in print, that works outside of our own rules... (I haven't seen many 700+ year old people wandering around, nor people that can reattach their own head, or reassemble all limbs, or time travel, or use magic, or negate said magic.) And throws it out the window...? And then supplants our own rules instead? Read chapter 99, specifically page 5. Kuromaru mentions an effeminate love towards Touta. Boom, is a man argument obliterated. There is plenty more, but this is going nowhere. [I'm going to take your point, ignore it, pretend it doesn't hold water, and present my own point, and then challenge you with what I evaded.] Wow. The... complete lack of logic. I've been trying to keep on topic, but it seems we can't have that can we? Google my screen name, twitter, facebook, WoW, LoL, skype. No, seriously. You refuse to accept anything that isn't your own. Calling anything/one else bigotted. Definition of bigot (supplied by M-W) :a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices Sound familiar, or are you a bit... self-unaware? I haven't jumped on the actual 'antiSJW' train... but unfortunately, it is generally those that are harder left leaning that misuse (or even really use) the term 'bigot' I'm not responding beyond this point, I've used basic logic points, provided from the printed work, none have been refuted or addressed, and the bigot screaming bigot wants me to do the leg work to 'further prove' my case that is all but set in stone (pages can petrify right?), in the magical world of Akamatsu's manga now known as "UQ Holder : Magister Magi Negima! 2" Take your politics back to facebook/tumblr/twitter. I'm going to back to my probably xenophobic, racist, sexist, genderist, ableist, apologist, whateverist, Japanese made stories and enjoy them. Traditionalist values are not anything-phobic, suck it.   Excuse me for not providing specific scenes from the manga, but here you go now since you completely ignored me pointing it out. Kuroumaru IS a man and continues identifying as that to the latest fucking chapter. Funny how I didn't call you a bigot but the other person above who IS clearly a bigot when they're going around stating being transgender is a mental illness as a fact and anyone that is against that is encouraging "barbaric mutilation". Please don't bother responding. "If someone's main argument in favor of their propositions/ideas is "traditional values", this means there actually isn't any other rational argument worthy of attention." |
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I wish I could do more than just say "You're great" to properly express my appreciation for how rational you two are. I truly wish more people were like you, I would genuinely appreciate more civil discussions. (My own hostilities here not withstanding, I have troubles ignoring irrational people whom shove their opinions in other people's faces.) |
| ┬┴┬┴┤ ͜ʖ ͡°) KonoSuba is overrated~ ┬┴┬┴┤ ͜ʖ^) Fanservice is a good thing~ |
Rindel said: I wish I could do more than just say "You're great" to properly express my appreciation for how rational you two are. I truly wish more people were like you, I would genuinely appreciate more civil discussions. (My own hostilities here not withstanding, I have troubles ignoring irrational people whom shove their opinions in other people's faces.) Well thanks for the support. |
Nyu said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: Hah oh this is rich. You're a closed minded bigot of a person and you've convinced me of that in literally three posts. Funny how it's legal and mostly completely safe for many transgender people to get surgery to feel more at home in their own body. Also no, the science community isn't in complete agreement about anything concerning transgender people and classifying it as a mental illness so trying to use them as crutch to push your closed minded bullshit isn't going to help anyone here. So anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot. That sounds very narrow minded. The majority of the Scientific community considers it a mental illness, and the only support for those who consider it not a mental illness are doing it for political correctness. Where's your hard evidence it's the "majority" because last I checked it's still a pretty big on-going discussion in the scientific community. Also you're claiming I'm closed minded for calling you a bigot but you literally told me anyone trying to say being transgender isn't a mental illness is the same thing as encouraging mutilation as a hard fucking fact. You didn't just state that was an opinion so let's not pretend you aren't closed minded. And THERE IT IS! you used the term political correctness exactly like I thought you would, just like Rindel threw around the term SJW. I know exactly what kind of person you are, so yeah no point continuing discussing this anymore. |
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Aiko_Hiroshi said: Nyu said: So anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot. That sounds very narrow minded. The majority of the Scientific community considers it a mental illness, and the only support for those who consider it not a mental illness are doing it for political correctness. Where's your hard evidence it's the "majority" because last I checked it's still a pretty big on-going discussion in the scientific community. Also you're claiming I'm closed minded for calling you a bigot but you literally told me anyone trying to say being transgender isn't a mental illness is the same thing as encouraging mutilation as a hard fucking fact. You didn't just state that was an opinion so let's not pretend you aren't closed minded. And THERE IT IS! you used the term political correctness exactly like I thought you would, just like Rindel threw around the term SJW. I know exactly what kind of person you are, so yeah no point continuing discussing this anymore. Ruuuru Bureka~ I got bored and wanted to source obvious image of duress. [Remember to source kids!] Best girl confirmed. Ch16 vs Ch100 Antagonized response vs self-reflected/visual results You can say what you want, magic biology means magical boobs. Magically. Peace. |
RakkaKaze said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: Where's your hard evidence it's the "majority" because last I checked it's still a pretty big on-going discussion in the scientific community. Also you're claiming I'm closed minded for calling you a bigot but you literally told me anyone trying to say being transgender isn't a mental illness is the same thing as encouraging mutilation as a hard fucking fact. You didn't just state that was an opinion so let's not pretend you aren't closed minded. And THERE IT IS! you used the term political correctness exactly like I thought you would, just like Rindel threw around the term SJW. I know exactly what kind of person you are, so yeah no point continuing discussing this anymore. Ruuuru Bureka~ I got bored and wanted to source obvious image of duress. [Remember to source kids!] Best girl confirmed. Ch16 vs Ch100 Antagonized response vs self-reflected/visual results You can say what you want, magic biology means magical boobs. Magically. Peace. Kuroumaru's body becoming like a woman doesn't make him one since he still identifies as a boy (It's literally used as a source of drama for his character arc too and he comes to a decision to stay as a boy literally a few chapters after your pics -_-), though I'm speaking to people in this thread that don't acknowledge transpeople so you're obviously not going to listen. Also you quoted the wrong post completely. |
Aiko_HiroshiOct 14, 2017 3:31 AM
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Aiko_Hiroshi said: RakkaKaze said: Because I used this site as a lolzy 'what I've watched' until I stopped caring to update it. I'm pretty sure my name anywhere else is still the same, non-alt name. Also, please make a case where Kuromaru has a set gender or sex, because if you read anything, you'd notice I've addressed this, as he does not have either. To have a gender for Kuromaru is to have a sex. Once he chooses one, that's it, he is now that. No backsies. IT'S CALLED MAGIC. He identifies as 'wanting to be masculine' not 'as a boy' or anything else in the 'current state' of story. If he identified as one or the other, he would be that or the other. Done deal. Whatever you say, and you just so happen to choose to finally talk on a thread now? *Shrugs* Also in regards to Kuroumaru, he literally says "I'm a man!" at multiple points throughout the series. That's identifying as a male. That's it, period. His words trumps anything you're trying to argue. Gender isn't tied to sex, at least from what I and many others believe. The most these guys have done is out themselves as bigots not worth arguing with lmao You can't argue logic and common sense with them. Too bad Kuroumaru's words hold more weight than anything they have to say on the subject. |
Nyu said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: Oh so you don't believe in transgender people huh? God this thread once again convinces me of how cancerous the community is here. Transgender people obviously exist. But it's a mental illness, Gender dysphoria. Also, just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean the community is toxic. Transgender is not a mental illness. It's a hormonal imbalance in the body. Gender dysphoria is and not all trans people have it and it can be treated by transitioning. |
Nyu said: Aiko_Hiroshi said: It's not a mental illness and the fact you and others still believe that is the very definition of toxic. I do find it funny that you're making it sound like I'm the one that doesn't accept other people's opinions but the way you're stating your stance on gender identity as absolute fact makes it seem like there aren't opposing sides even in science which is just outright untrue even just looking at this one reddit thread on the topic of scientists planning a series of AMAs: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/6p5vcd/rscience_preemptively_warns_against_labeling/ This isn't just about having a different opinion, this concerns people in my life who are important to me and that are transgender. The Scientific community considers it a mental illness, because it is a mental illness. And people like you shouldn't be encouraging others that it isn't. You don't go around encouraging Schizophrenic people to not take their medicine. Because it's bad if they don't they could get hurt or ruin their life. You encouraging people that it's not a mental illness is bad because it legitimises barbaric procedures like mutilation. All right. Hold the fuck up. There needs to be an admin because trans people aren't mentally ill and transitioning isn't "barbaric", it can be literal life-saving surgery. Transgender is not classified as a mental illness. Clearly we know why you're all so butthurt about this thread now. |
JotakakOct 14, 2017 7:58 AM
Jotakak said: trans people aren't mentally ill and transitioning isn't "barbaric", it can be literal life-saving surgery. Would you look at that, something we actually agree on. I acknowledge that I could be entirely wrong on the matter though, and won't argue against people claiming such, because I don't know enough to be able to do so in good conscience. I've known a transsexual who didn't want surgery because he felt whether he was a man or woman on a day-to-day basis, never staying as either for more than a week or so at a time. One of the nicer people I've known, and not at all troubled by his situation. (I say "he" because that was his preference most of the time.) Knowing people like that makes me disinclined to accept it as a mental "illness" per say, as it doesn't innately damage the individual. (That's also why I feel that Kuroumaru isn't definitively a boy, as he wavers between them enough that I think he's about 40/60 woman/man in general, and he'll switch between the two depending on the circumstances.) Alternative gender identities may be an anomaly in humans, but that doesn't have to mean it's a negative thing. It's negative from the perspective of survival of the species (any species would go naturally extinct if all their members turned gay), but I don't think that's a big deal to humans if I'm being honest. |
RindelOct 14, 2017 12:05 PM
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