User627 said: I can name a few who don't want his dick thoughThere are too many girls who are a part of Yuki Rito's harem that there's no way in hell to flesh them all out. Basically, if you're a named female character they'll want Yuki Rito eventually. https://myanimelist.net/character/10395/Saki_Tenjouin https://myanimelist.net/character/14388/Shizu_Murasame https://myanimelist.net/character/14894/Tearju_Lunatique User627 said: my Nana is not a sex object They're all just sex objects there to desire Yuki Rito. The only one closest to any form of character depth is Yui Kotegawa and Yami.  none of them are really but defending waifu is most important right now I will reply to your earlier reply to me but I felt this was more important at the moment |
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| @Deknijff You're a fan of To Love Ru, so there's nothing wrong with wanting to put that as the most important. I have a waifu I would defend with my life as well (my precious, precious Houshou). But in all honesty, I don't feel as though a few girls in the many (many) females there are in the series is enough to justify it. Even the side girls like that tribe lady wanted Rito's eggplant. Even the main antagonist, Nemesis, wanted him. Tearju Lunatique is placed into embarrassing situations sexual in nature with Yuki Rito. While she may not want him as strongly as others, it's almost as though that the universe wants her to. Shizu Murasame is a ghost. While valid, I just can't see her a reason to subvert what I said. I've seen Saki Tenjouin try to seduce Rito quite some time (if I remember correctly). She's a fanservice girl who actually tries to be a fanservice girl, despite having limits. She isn't an important character so not much screen time for her. Wait, wasn't Nana portrayed as almost naked with her twin sister under a bridge sucking on each other's tail as if somehow mimicking a sex act? That was cannon. I can understand you don't see her as a sex object, but the show might have some other ideas for her as do the many, may fanarts of Gelbooru. |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: Well Nemesis only teased him at first to get to Momo and when she did actually fall in love with him it was because he saved her lifeBut in all honesty, I don't feel as though a few girls in the many (many) females there are in the series is enough to justify it. Even the side girls like that tribe lady wanted Rito's eggplant. Even the main antagonist, Nemesis, wanted him. hmmm I think its valid. You said name a named character and so I named 3. Could of named more but that would be kind of pointless really User627 said: I don't see how that matters. Its a gag in the show. A girl falling in love with him is different from him falling into her Tearju Lunatique is placed into embarrassing situations sexual in nature with Yuki Rito. While she may not want him as strongly as others, it's almost as though that the universe wants her to. what you mean by as strongly as others. She doesn't want him at all even User627 said: yeah she tried to at the beginning because she saw Lala as a rival. After she stops caring about that she falls in love with Zastin I've seen Saki Tenjouin try to seduce Rito quite some time (if I remember correctly). She's a fanservice girl who actually tries to be a fanservice girl, despite having limits. She isn't an important character so not much screen time for her.  User627 said: seeing someone as a sex object isn't the same as actually being a sex object though. I could show doujins where you'd see what a real character being used as a sex object is. Wait, wasn't Nana portrayed as almost naked with her twin sister under a bridge sucking on each other's tail as if somehow mimicking a sex act? That was cannon. I can understand you don't see her as a sex object, but the show might have some other ideas for her as do the many, many fanarts of Gelbooru. Yes there are scenes of Nana being sexual with her sister which I'm honestly not a fan of Filth like Momo shouldn't be allowed to touch my Nana with such disgusting intentions User627 said: Im sorry for my bad wording Oh I don't have a bad opinion of it. I just don't like people making fake assumptions of fans. If it was true people self inserted in the fanbase in such a huge degree I would say yeah its true for most and they are free to do so and think nothing bad of it and only fight for their right to do so if they were insulted for it like I have before. Honestly, I don't think "fake assumption" is the right way to describe it. That would imply that I didn't really mean anything of what I said, but I just said it to bait or troll harem fans. It was a genuine assumption, just one that wasn't correct.perhaps misinformed assumption would be better. But if you do have a better word do share User627 said: from how you describe your scenario I'm really getting this kind of feel we'd be computer programs instead of what we are currently. hmmm but if we were discussing how unfair the world of harems are for certain individuals wouldn't it be better to have the most base harem MC and setting than some kind of worst case scenario of what could be? The scenario I had in mind was that in order for harem anime to work, we would all have to play certain roles whether we like it or not. If we try to break away from it, then we'd be forced by the harem genre right back into playing our roles. <this is also why MCs themselves can't escape from ever having a harem. If you're a part of the story, then you have to play out your role to the end.Being transported into the harem world doesn't automatically make you the main character. It just means that you're now living in the world of a harem anime. User627 said: Got the doujin you gave me. While I admit the position of being able to seduce and make any woman addicted to you is tempting. But what happens when you do it to someone's girlfriend—to someone's wife? It's easily a case of NTR right there.  |
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| @Deknijff So I'll admit that I'm wrong about every girl (though a very small number) eventually wanting Yuki Rito (it was an exaggerated statement anyway). But that doesn't really change the fact that due to the numerous women there are, it would just be difficult to flesh them all out. Actually, while I agree that perspective is different from actually being, the girls of To Love Ru are (not to be offensive) sex objects. They're existence in an ecchi show is for the purpose of being sexualized. While sure, we get the occasional romantic atmosphere, the girls of To Love Ru are there for eye candy. Even when we see them angsting about their feelings for Rito Yuki in private (like Yui and Rito's sister) they're still dressed rather skimpily. Sorry about Nana being sexualized in a show like that. So...how would you feel if Rito laid his hands on her like that? Like deliberately? Just curious. Im sorry for my bad wording perhaps misinformed assumption would be better. But if you do have a better word do share The correct wording would just be "assumption" in itself. from how you describe your scenario I'm really getting this kind of feel we'd be computer programs instead of what we are currently. That's the point. Being transported into a harem world means that you got transported into the ideal world, that's how we usually visualize it. It's meant so we can have fun—so we can be happy. This also ties in to the doujinshi you gave me. Imagine it. Let's just say you were transported into the world of To Love Ru yourself? Let's give you the same powers as that guy has from the doujinshi you gave me for added effect. You might resist using them at first, but what happens when you come to the conclusion that these characters are just drawings made by Saki Hasemi? Sooner or later, you're going to be tempted into using them for your own pleasure as these characters are often sexualized on screen. Remember what I put in earlier? "Because there are so many characters it's hard to flesh them out?" Just how hard will it be to not respect these characters as we often see them sexualized. Tell me, when a female somehow loses her clothing or accidentally gets groped by Yuki Rito, do we find that funny or arousing? Probably a bit of both. This ties into what I mentioned earlier. The women there are meant to cater to our hormones—to give us a fantasy. Then again, you can assume the same for every anime even one that isn't ecchi. But still, it's hard for me to treat a character with some degree of respect if they're only purpose is to be sexualized. Before we continue though, I think you and I have different perceptions and standards of what a "sex object" really is. For me, it's a character who has not much purpose than to arouse others or be sexualized. Actual sex may or may not have anything to do with it. That's how I see things. |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: You want to know why I think Oregairu is a good harem anime? Because character and character chemistry. Characters actually do something that matter to the plot and each other. Even their quirks can actually cause relationships to change differ. So what if the girls aren't so obvious in wanting to suck H-man's D because apparently that makes for a bad harem anime to you? A female character apparently is subtle and suddenly she makes for a bad harem girl. The reasons why girls actually like Hachiman isn't shallow and too quick. This is where character chemistry is important, because girls actually have personality that react with some context to Hachiman. They don't immediately start gong "oh he's such a sensitive guy deep inside" or "he saved my dog" and then immediately want to dote on him. Even Yui takes some time to actually get to know the guy, to which Hachiman accuses (wrongly) of only liking him out of feeling like she owes him. Going back to To Love Ru, any personality of girls in Yuki's harem is just there purely for cosmetics. It only makes them look more attractive, yet there's really nothing there that truly made a difference. You want to compare Yuki Rito to Hachiman? The former is a bland guy who exists to molest women he meets everywhere. He has no real background, no real personality that matters. He's just a nice guy. And that's apparently enough to attract women. The latter, while having a flawed personality is explained rather well by his background. His personality actually affects the show. You can replace Yuki Rito out there with any other generic harem MC and just give him the occasional accidental perversion and the show still wouldn't change. At least Hachiman is actually unique, even if you do disagree with him. You claim that he's a "12 year old whining on Facebook" then why exactly does his monologues usually end up right? Why does he get results then? Apparently you got to have high standards for 12 year olds out there capable of manipulating social interactions the way they want. At least Hachiman actually has some skills, what does Yuki Rito have? There's nothing wrong with not liking Oregairu, but since you wanted an explanation. I mean, when I look at my initial question: Manaban said: But the real question I want to ask here is, if there's a mecha that had a lot of aspects you liked about it, but the mecha elements themselves were basically never more than part of the background decor and there was maybe, idk, one mecha fight in the whole anime that was rather brief and nondescript, would you say you considered it a good mecha still? If there was a mystery anime that had a ton of other things you found really cool but the mystery itself was almost non-existent except at the beginning and at the end, would it be a good mystery still? OreGairu very much falls into that kind of trap with being a harem, so much so that I feel compelled to ask this. Make no mistake, just because I really strongly dislike it doesn't mean I care if you like it per se, but since you seem to like harem anime, do you think OreGairu is a good harem anime or just a good anime? Because I'd honestly find it weird if you still continued with the former even though the aspects that could be considered to be the harem aspects are so downplayed and mitigated that it's almost non-existent in terms of what it actually focuses the most on, being Hachiman's internal monologues about the events unfolding around him and how he decides to handle them. There's a huge difference in saying something is good in general and saying something is good at an aspect of it. You can say OreGairu is good, I'm not somebody who tends to want to just jam my thoughts towards something down your throat and make people say things they like are "bad," but do you really think it's a good harem specifically? It's barely even an aspect to it other than "it kind of exists maybe," so I'd really like a good explanation on what makes it a good harem aside from things like "it has some harem elements" and "it has a good main character." The only actually thing you've responded to it here is this: So what if the girls aren't so obvious in wanting to suck H-man's D because apparently that makes for a bad harem anime to you? A female character apparently is subtle and suddenly she makes for a bad harem girl. Which is strawmanning me (again) because the argument I was making wasn't that these elements couldn't be subtle - it's that OreGairu barely put any focus on these to the point where it's almost irrelevant to that show. Hence why I drew these parrallels when discussing whether or not it was a good harem: But the real question I want to ask here is, if there's a mecha that had a lot of aspects you liked about it, but the mecha elements themselves were basically never more than part of the background decor and there was maybe, idk, one mecha fight in the whole anime that was rather brief and nondescript, would you say you considered it a good mecha still? If there was a mystery anime that had a ton of other things you found really cool but the mystery itself was almost non-existent except at the beginning and at the end, would it be a good mystery still? Whether you like it or not is irrelevant because a harem is defined by multiple girls liking one guy, and OreGairu strongly de-emphasizes that aspect of it in favor of focusing more on Hachiman's responses to the events happening around him, specifically in regards to how he perceives people to put on metaphorical masks in response to societal pressure and explaining his arguments in favor of as much, rather than actually even fleshing out any romcom elements, let alone any harem elements. It's a show that's much, much more about societal commentary and niceities than it is about romance or multiple girls liking a single guy or any of that nature, and it shows that by dedication so much screentime to Hachiman's inner monologues and how he chooses to handle situations and how people respond to how he handles those situations as opposed to the harem aspects. There's a difference between subtlety and de-emphasis, and OreGairu is very much in the latter in terms of presence as opposed to the former. It's barely even a present aspect in terms of amount of attention and screentime dedicated to how it possesses such an aspect. We're not talking about whether or not those aspects exist and how to execute them correctly in this context - which, if we were, I'd be much more open to your arguments - we're discussing the prominence of harem as an element to OreGairu and whether or not it should be considered a good harem in spite of how little it focuses on that aspect in its entire runtime. You're not responding to that. You're responding to the idea about "whether or not it's a good harem" and attempting to explain why you think makes it a good harem, but the real question was related to the prominence of these aspects. If I recall correctly, there was less scenes than I could count on one hand that could even be interpreted as much, which doesn't mean that it's subtle about expressing those elements - it means it focuses much strongly on other aspects instead to the point where that aspect is hardly present. If you could have actually brought forth an argument about either the prominence of the harem elements or how something could be a good harem while strongly de-emphasizing the harem's presence as an aspect to the show itself still, then I would've at least tried to hear you out, even though I really don't think reductionism is necessarily an improvement for that type of content itself, as much as just a way to potentially flesh out other aspects of the show better due to more time being dedicated to those elements by rule of thumb. It's not making the harem itself better, it could just be (again, potentially, execution always plays a factor in these things) making things like narrative or other aspects it has better by focusing more on that. As an aside, is why my language got progressively stronger in my second post as compared to my first one - you have a habit of not really arguing what I said. I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or not, but you don't even really express disagreement over what I was actually saying whenever you're not just complaining about my attitude, you argue arguments that I don't make whatsoever and then ascribe them to me. You also tell me how I really am whenever I watch these shows, you tell me how I view the characters, you tell me all of these things and then expect me to just treat you niceley whenever you're just putting words in my mouth so often. Your counterpoints have relied on this, your psychlogical projections have relied on this, so on and so forth. You're not really reading what I have to say here and you haven't heard me out at any point. You took issue with my tone; which I find fair enough (with my second post, at least) except not to the extent to use as a tool to ignore/twist every argument I make while presenting yourself in the right, and I don't find it reasonable at all to take issue with a way I entertained making my argument but opted not to do, which still would've been rooted in an attempt to prove a point rather than just trying to spite you for being critical of harems, but you're probably going to just say I'm lying or something and that I really just want to go on some kind of crusade against any and all criticism of the genre, even though, y'know, I've been critical of it myself in the past on multiple occassions, hence why I'm going to just refuse to respond to you from this point forward. You've barely even argued the actual points I've been making, in the rare occasion that you've even attempted to, since most of what you've had to say to my responses or about my responses so far has been either complaining about my tone, or projecting psychological situations onto me without even really explaining what gave you that impression past what could be whittled down to "u seemed kind of mad :o" and for some absurd reason, expecting me not to think what arguments you're presenting me with are dumb. I'm not going to respond to anything else; as I've said, I'm not interested in discussing things further with you at this point. Not only do you not even discuss my arguments, instead relying on stuffing words into their mouths and other forms of strawmanning, but you don't even explain why with a lot of your psychological projections, you just say I'm resentful that people don't like the things I like without even noticing that I explicitly stated what I found annoying/insulting and why I found it to be as much in my second post, so the assertion that I'm offended/resentful that people dislike what I like isn't even true, but I know that saying as much and pointing out how I've defended people's rights to not like these types of shows or stood up for people who liked shows I don't like won't get anywhere whenever you've proven that your counters to things like that are just saying things like "you're only doing that to make it look like you don't get offended at people disliking what you like," so w/e. From the beginning, I've found your criticisms to just not be very rational or good. I've tried to express as much and explain why. You've opted to taking it as if I'm witch-hunting you for complaining about the genre, though, and going about just trying to tell everybody that the only reasons why I was trying to argue your points is that I was offended by you merely expressing them, and your only proof of as much is an approach I considered because I thought it'd be a good way to get the point I've been trying to make across and not out of any malicious intent towards you. The only thing I've done wrong here in terms of the way I treat others is swear a *lot* in one of my posts, which was expressed in retaliation to the offense/irritation whenever you began projecting why I like these shows or how I view these characters onto me, albeit something I could've approached in a way that wasn't so irritable. That's it. You're the one using that (on top of things I haven't done) as an excuse to ignore pretty much everything I've had to say in this discussion, which is all you've done whenever you weren't just committing copious amounts of strawman arguments. That's my side to the story and I'll leave the rest up for onlookers to come to their on conclusions towards. I see that there's no need for any more words between us, and if you wish to keep responding to me then go ahead, but I won't be notified and you're not going to be able to comment on my profile or anything of that nature. Feel free to twist that as another means to portray me as somebody who just can't handle other people's opinions and is merely resentful towards people having the audacity to disagree with me as opposed to anything else I could've been/was resentful towards here if you wish, though the reality is that I just think your criticisms weren't reasonable, your projections towards what draws people to the genre and how they treat it were worse, and that your response to me stating all of this is the most insipid thing you've done here of all. So therefore I'm just not going to waste time with somebody who responds so theatrically to people expressing disagreement with them and being straightforward about how insipid I found some of your arguments to be ("everybody self-inserts in secret, everybody just views the characters as sex toys," etc etc). |
ManabanOct 11, 2017 2:59 PM
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| Well, lookie here, it seems that Manaban has given his final word. Looks like I can't even respond or counter argue with him. How ironic that despite the fact that I'm the one who cast him out of the argument first, he's the one to take it a step further and actually block me. What a very mature response. I can see that he's totally not angry or taking this personally in any way. Not resentful to me my ass... I can understand blocking me if I was harassing him, but out of an argument? Come on, that's just pathetic. Amazing how he called me out on being insipid and not liking it when someone else has an opinion? Gee, can anyone please go ahead and tell me just how much of a good example Manaban has been lately in handling someone else who has a different opinion than him? Apparently just because something is in the background it's automatically bad? Just how deluded is he? He insists that Oregairu isn't a good harem anime specifically because the harem was "non-existent" or "in the background" but there was an entire episode dedicated to it. Again, so what if it's in the background or not the main focus? So what if there are other things to like that are better? That doesn't make it bad in any way. I answered his arguments, but then he goes on to say that it's invalid because he was talking about something else (ie, the elements or whatever) or just flat out calls me "strawmaning him." He could be a bit clearer as to what he really means instead of hiding around it with, in all honesty, pretentious seeming sentences. I wonder if I offended him somehow by criticizing To Love Ru, which he enjoys so much? We may have different views, but I don't think that's enough to make me look like the bad guy out of this. I'd like to ask for input, but I know you people don't want to get involved in this so never mind my ramblings and just enjoy the topic. I just need to put in my thoughts so I don't come off as the asshole in all this. My arguments aren't rational to him because he refuses to keep an open mind. What's the point of debating if you're just going to insist in having it your way? Don't be fooled by how outspoken I am, folks. I can be open minded. I can admit that I'm wrong and apologize. I've done it before. Hell, I've even apologized to Manaban citing that he's not the asshole I thought he was in the comments of his own profile. But it seems that I was right all along. I can't believe I'm saying this, but good riddance. (this is about as "theatrical" as I can be, baby) |
User627Oct 11, 2017 3:12 PM
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: Fair enoughSo I'll admit that I'm wrong about every girl (though a very small number) eventually wanting Yuki Rito (it was an exaggerated statement anyway). But that doesn't really change the fact that due to the numerous women there are, it would just be difficult to flesh them all out. I don't mind really though since most shows don't "flesh out" every character in a show User627 said: Before we continue though, I think you and I have different perceptions and standards of what a "sex object" really is. For me, it's a character who has not much purpose than to arouse others or be sexualized. Actual sex may or may not have anything to do with it. That's how I see things. User627 said: Ah man Im just so confused right now. Like I honestly don’t know what to say. I just feel your definition is so wrong in this context I wouldn’t even know where to startActually, while I agree that perspective is different from actually being, the girls of To Love Ru are (not to be offensive) sex objects. They're existence in an ecchi show is for the purpose of being sexualized. While sure, we get the occasional romantic atmosphere, the girls of To Love Ru are there for eye candy. Even when we see them angsting about their feelings for Rito Yuki in private (like Yui and Rito's sister) they're still dressed rather skimpily. User627 said: That depends on context. If Rito touched her like Momo does Id want to kill him Sorry about Nana being sexualized in a show like that. So...how would you feel if Rito laid his hands on her like that? Like deliberately? Just curious. if it was because of other reasons which I’m having hard time thinking how to express I would feel a bit sad because I always pictured the perfect man among men for her to be someone like Soushi But in the end her happiness is more important than my own so I will evaluate the situation and see how she feels User627 said: Eh but I prefer to fap than to seek sex since I don’t really care to have sex with a girl if I don’t have feelings for and I don’t feel ready or mature enough for a relationship. This also ties in to the doujinshi you gave me. Imagine it. Let's just say you were transported into the world of To Love Ru yourself? Let's give you the same powers as that guy has from the doujinshi you gave me for added effect. You might resist using them at first, but what happens when you come to the conclusion that these characters are just drawings made by Saki Hasemi? Sooner or later, you're going to be tempted into using them for your own pleasure as these characters are often sexualized on screen. Remember what I put in earlier? "Because there are so many characters it's hard to flesh them out?" Just how hard will it be to not respect these characters as we often see them sexualized. I don’t see how it would be hard to respect a character just because she is sexualised. The idea to not show respect for such a reason boogles me User627 said: Eh but the characters of TLR aren’t just there to be sexualised and act just like normal human beings out side of thatTell me, when a female somehow loses her clothing or accidentally gets groped by Yuki Rito, do we find that funny or arousing? Probably a bit of both. This ties into what I mentioned earlier. The women there are meant to cater to our hormones—to give us a fantasy. Then again, you can assume the same for every anime even one that isn't ecchi. But still, it's hard for me to treat a character with some degree of respect if they're only purpose is to be sexualized. User627 said: Eh but TLR goes up and beyond almost any other ecchi series in this regard to the point it almost feels like parody. I wouldn’t think its cheap just like I don’t find the constant sex jokes in SY to be cheapMost of To Love Ru's humor derives from "oh, another girl's clothes got ripped to shreds" and "oh boy, Yuki Rito accidentally molested a girl again." That is so cheap. User627 said: eh but he is self conscious of it and feels bad he does those things to girls. He tries to stop and there is even a chapter where he tries to understand how he could perhaps cure himself from this problemEven Yuki's tendency to grope a girl is treated as sympathetic and a joke to the audience as he has no control of it. He never tries to avoid doing this, and he's never self conscious. It's almost as though he keeps forgetting that he can't walk five steps without putting his hand on someone's boobs. User627 said: Ah yes you’re right my friend Any monkey can just draw some pretty and exotic girls and then make them strip for various reasons in front of one guy. would you mind then drawing me a doujin with that happening? Preferable with tentacles if you would be so kind |
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| @Deknijff That's fine. There's no need to force yourself to explain it to me if it only stresses you out. Again, this conversation isn't made to make anyone angry. I already mentioned that our perspective on the subject is different so I'm not surprised why you would disagree with me. We can still have a fun discussion nonetheless. That depends on context. If Rito touched her like Momo does Id want to kill him if it was because of other reasons which I’m having hard time thinking how to express I would feel a bit sad because I always pictured the perfect man among men for her to be someone like Soushi Heh, aren't we all protective of our waifus? Eh but I prefer to fap than to seek sex since I don’t really care to have sex with a girl if I don’t have feelings for and I don’t feel ready or mature enough for a relationship. I don’t see how it would be hard to respect a character just because she is sexualised. The idea to not show respect for such a reason boogles me Well, put it like this (and please keep in mind that this is my perspective). I see a character, who in all honesty, his/her purpose is just to titillate the audience. While he/she may have a personality of their own, they're often stripped with the flimsiest of justification like a porn star on set. They're stripping really has no justification, such as being torn from a fight, and they have little purpose outside of being sexualized in the show. This doesn't just limit to sexualized characters either. It's like when I find a character who's cute just for the sake of being cute, but never actually contributes anything to the story. In short, they're just fictional characters and giving them "respect" just adds to their sentimental value. (Respect: admiration, to look up to) What I mean is that I feel as though there's nothing for me to respect in characters who's sole purpose is to arouse me. I already mentioned that I see them as sex objects, and it's difficult for me to admire or look up to them in a way. Let me give an example for the opposite end. Let's take the Major from Ghost in the Shell, who does have scenes where she is naked and shown to the camera and dressed in rather risque clothing, she does contribute to the plot and has skills of her own. Now, you could say the same for Lala and her ability to invent as shown that it is rather impressive. And I can say, you have a point. But, however, she's just so wacky and so sexualized that it's hard for me to look up to her (respect). Her inventions are just jokes and her intellect is greatly exaggerated to near Mary Sue levels for us to find her more appealing. In the end, this all really amounts to our personal taste. This depends on which character we find more appealing than the others. You did say that it's difficult for you to see why I respect them and thought I should tell you my side. Eh but TLR goes up and beyond almost any other ecchi series in this regard to the point it almost feels like parody. I wouldn’t think its cheap just like I don’t find the constant sex jokes in SY to be cheap I actually find SY's sex jokes to be genuinely funny. But I feel that there is a difference. SY is self aware and never really goes overboard and the jokes are rather clever. To Love Ru takes advantage of its beautiful women and the only sex jokes that we see are either women getting stripped naked due to some strange contraption or Yuki Rito once again groping another girl in a very suggestive manner. eh but he is self conscious of it and feels bad he does those things to girls. He tries to stop and there is even a chapter where he tries to understand how he could perhaps cure himself from this problem Damn, I must have missed that chapter. But still, I'm willing to reckon that before I even read it that nothing really comes out of this and we're back to status quo. They could've built up on it more but it's treated as just another gag. This relates to the SY discussion up above. SY has a different type of humor to keep things fresh while TLR keeps with the same formula every punch line. Can you still say that a joke is funny after hearing time and time and again? For other self aware humor like SY, you can check out Panty & Stocking w/ Garterbelt which is an anime parodying Western shows. Ah yes you’re right my friend would you mind then drawing me a doujin with that happening? Preferable with tentacles if you would be so kind I can feel myself sweating right now. Okay, so I the best thing I can draw is a stick figure. But allow to rephrase, any manga artist or talented drawer can just draw some pretty and exotic girls and then make them strip for various reasons in front of one guy. This doesn't just extend to manga artists either. Even novel writers can use sex as an appeal to draw in a crowd. While that isn't a problem, it's difficult to consider it a "work of art" when it uses cheap sex and only cheap sex as its only appeal. Now keep in mind, it's possible for a skilled writer to actually change things mostly by being self aware. @Shaadow You got to girls who liked you? Must have been hard. I'm totally not jealous at all. What's your secret? Good looks? Personality? Charm?! Tell me! @harpseal2 You clever motherf— |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
| TL;DR Harem anime are for beta cucks |
CoolitzHubertXVI said: Tonysol67 said: well there is a trope where the side characters get at least one girl, and their relationship is somehow better than any relationship the main character has with his harem. also >Snafu >actual depth i'm done What Tonysol67 said: well there is a trope where the side characters get at least one girl, and their relationship is somehow better than any relationship the main character has with his harem. also >Snafu >actual depth i'm done What Harem Anime has side male characters that get at least one girl ? nisekoi there's another one, but i don't remember its title. |
| N.etorare T.echnical R.esearcher |
User627 said: perhapsHeh, aren't we all protective of our waifus? but hopefully only those of us with good waifus User627 said: I didn't even mean respect in that way Well, put it like this (and please keep in mind that this is my perspective). I see a character, who in all honesty, his/her purpose is just to titillate the audience. While he/she may have a personality of their own, they're often stripped with the flimsiest of justification like a porn star on set. They're stripping really has no justification, such as being torn from a fight, and they have little purpose outside of being sexualized in the show. This doesn't just limit to sexualized characters either. It's like when I find a character who's cute just for the sake of being cute, but never actually contributes anything to the story. In short, they're just fictional characters and giving them "respect" just adds to their sentimental value. (Respect: admiration, to look up to) I meant it as in you'd treat a character the same as any other character based on their personality and actions User627 said: ignoring I think the jokes in TLR are funny I'm going to have to have you explain how SY is self aware and TLR is not Eh but TLR goes up and beyond almost any other ecchi series in this regard to the point it almost feels like parody. I wouldn’t think its cheap just like I don’t find the constant sex jokes in SY to be cheap I actually find SY's sex jokes to be genuinely funny. But I feel that there is a difference. SY is self aware and never really goes overboard and the jokes are rather clever. To Love Ru takes advantage of its beautiful women and the only sex jokes that we see are either women getting stripped naked due to some strange contraption or Yuki Rito once again groping another girl in a very suggestive manner.User627 said: I don't see how that matters. Sure the show stays the same after but you were talking about Rito so it disproves what you said about him not being self conscious and not feeling bad for his actions. Sure he wanted to stop before that but having a chapter to point to is usefuleh but he is self conscious of it and feels bad he does those things to girls. He tries to stop and there is even a chapter where he tries to understand how he could perhaps cure himself from this problem Damn, I must have missed that chapter. But still, I'm willing to reckon that before I even read it that nothing really comes out of this and we're back to status quo. They could've built up on it more but it's treated as just another gag.User627 said: This relates to the SY discussion up above. SY has a different type of humor to keep things fresh while TLR keeps with the same formula every punch line. Can you still say that a joke is funny after hearing time and time and again?  been over 5 years and I still laugh at this every time the humor of SY is 90% sex jokes 8% Suzu is like a child jokes and 2% Mitsuba might be in love with Tsuda jokes so I have no clue what you're even doing right now honestly User627 said: Id consider it art. It having sex doesn't devalue it to me when it comes to everything else. Thats why I have 4 doujins in my fav section. Ah yes you’re right my friend I can feel myself sweating right now.would you mind then drawing me a doujin with that happening? Preferable with tentacles if you would be so kind Okay, so I the best thing I can draw is a stick figure. But allow to rephrase, any manga artist or talented drawer can just draw some pretty and exotic girls and then make them strip for various reasons in front of one guy. This doesn't just extend to manga artists either. Even novel writers can use sex as an appeal to draw in a crowd. While that isn't a problem, it's difficult to consider it a "work of art" when it uses cheap sex and only cheap sex as its only appeal. Now keep in mind, it's possible for a skilled writer to actually change things mostly by being self aware. I don't consider a work just sex. If it was just sex it wouldn't be able to target to anyone else nor stand out from other things however small it maybe from the rest |
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User627 said: @BlazeSoulReaperX Unless you have a death note, that isn't going to be easy. @Manaban Ah, welcome back to the discussion! I almost missed you. In regards to your question long ago, I just wanted to answer it for the hell of it. You want to know what about To Love Ru makes it such a bad harem anime to me? The cast is dumb. Plain and simple. There are too many girls who are a part of Yuki Rito's harem that there's no way in hell to flesh them all out. Basically, if you're a named female character you'll want Yuki Rito eventually. They're all just sex objects there to desire Yuki Rito. The only one closest to any form of character depth is Yui Kotegawa and Yami. Most of To Love Ru's humor derives from "oh, another girl's clothes got ripped to shreds" and "oh boy, Yuki Rito accidentally molested a girl again." That is so cheap. Even Yuki's tendency to grope a girl is treated as sympathetic and a joke to the audience as he has no control of it. He never tries to avoid doing this, and he's never self conscious. It's almost as though he keeps forgetting that he can't walk five steps without putting his hand on someone's boobs. His accidental perversion really has nothing to contribute to the show period. Women don't avoid him because of this and aren't wary of him, the only one to ever act on this is Yui. And she, once again, falls for his ass for the dumbest of reasons: "Oh he's really a sensitive guy deep down inside, take me, Yuki!" oh, and because he apparently saved a cat. The cat problem actually goes back to your argument with CoolitzHubert. Apparently every other guy is so despicable and perverted that only Yuki Rito's bleeding heart was the fact that no other guy was willing to save poor mister kitty from a tree no matter how much Yui asked. Take a look at how every other named male character is treated. To Love Ru, is another example of harem animes who treat other males besides the main guy as perverted and selfish only to make him look better by comparison. I mean, being a pervert isn't bad, but the other guys are just too pathetic that it's apparently the only thing they can do. And before you say, "oh, it's supposed to be ecchi" as a defense of why women have to be stripped naked all the time... A dumb show is dumb, regardless of what genre its in. Ecchi in itself isn't dumb, but considering this is the only level of humor that To Love Ru has to offer (besides slapstick) it's rather cheap. That why I said it didn't have any depth and low effort. Any monkey can just draw some pretty and exotic girls and then make them strip for various reasons in front of one guy. I would say there's nothing wrong enjoying it, but knowing you, you'd still take offense to that. Again the humor of To Love Ru may be cheap, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. You want to know why I think Oregairu is a good harem anime? Because character and character chemistry. Characters actually do something that matter to the plot and each other. Even their quirks can actually cause relationships to change differ. So what if the girls aren't so obvious in wanting to suck H-man's D because apparently that makes for a bad harem anime to you? A female character apparently is subtle and suddenly she makes for a bad harem girl. The reasons why girls actually like Hachiman isn't shallow and too quick. This is where character chemistry is important, because girls actually have personality that react with some context to Hachiman. They don't immediately start gong "oh he's such a sensitive guy deep inside" or "he saved my dog" and then immediately want to dote on him. Even Yui takes some time to actually get to know the guy, to which Hachiman accuses (wrongly) of only liking him out of feeling like she owes him. Going back to To Love Ru, any personality of girls in Yuki's harem is just there purely for cosmetics. It only makes them look more attractive, yet there's really nothing there that truly made a difference. You want to compare Yuki Rito to Hachiman? The former is a bland guy who exists to molest women he meets everywhere. He has no real background, no real personality that matters. He's just a nice guy. And that's apparently enough to attract women. The latter, while having a flawed personality is explained rather well by his background. His personality actually affects the show. You can replace Yuki Rito out there with any other generic harem MC and just give him the occasional accidental perversion and the show still wouldn't change. At least Hachiman is actually unique, even if you do disagree with him. You claim that he's a "12 year old whining on Facebook" then why exactly does his monologues usually end up right? Why does he get results then? Apparently you got to have high standards for 12 year olds out there capable of manipulating social interactions the way they want. At least Hachiman actually has some skills, what does Yuki Rito have? There's nothing wrong with not liking Oregairu, but since you wanted an explanation. Personally, I find you to be self righteous, even with the way you've treated CoolitzHubertXVI. The way you responded to him almost seemed like you were personally taking his views as offensive just because he wanted to state it out. You mask resentfulness as passion because you can't seem to stand someone else who has a different opinion. Why don't you start listing off examples without calling someone else's logic dumb? Not really, you didn't even get your initial example correct, so there's no need to apologize, man :D Especially when you become so zeroed in on one thing that it becomes difficult to take your opinion with anything but a grain of salt since you're mostly complaining about THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE WITH PENISES IN THIS ANIME ABOUT A HAREM OF FEMALES. THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT BETTER IS TO ADD A RIVAL CHARACTER BUT IF THEY LOSE SOMETIMES OR ACT LIKE A JERK SOMETIMES THEN THEY'RE JUST BEING PORTRAYED LIKE THAT TO MAKE THE MC BETTER AND I HATE THAT. What's the matter? Is being a jerk really the only way you know how to argue? I'm guessing it's helped you win quite a few debates in the past so you must be quite fond of that method. If people want to state out their opinions, they should be more than free to do so without being called "dumb" even if you're correct. It makes them less inclined to actually talk with you. To defend CoolitzHubertXVI, I honestly think he does have some points. While you managed to come up with an example as to why he's wrong with presenting a character, he's right in regards to how other males are used to glorify him. Even if you presented a male character who's capable in himself, he's just one character out of a bunch. So what? Big difference when every other guy is just a massive jerk to make the MC look better in comparison. If CoolitzHubertXVI wants some characters to actually rival the MC not in terms of harem but actually portrayed with physical qualities, then why not? I say he has that right to desire it. @Yato-God69 Damn, I hope you punched that guy square in the face. He seriously did that? Confessions work better when you set up the atmosphere than just doing it randomly. He might as well have sabotaged your chances. Still, you could've just mustered up enough courage to walk up to the girl and tell her the truth, regarding your phone being taken by him. You could've confessed at a later date when the time was right. @CoolitzHubertXVI Haven't seen the show, but I actually sympathize with this Lester guy. I can't believe female characters don't mind practically throwing themselves at this guy despite him clearly not interested and even disliking what they do. It's like they don't learn or wisen up. It's even more distasteful when they practically disregard every other guy because they're so obsessed with the main. nah imo i feel punching ppl wont really do anything besides him and me not being friends... im fine with that but problem is that im with him for projects and stuff lol. ya its tragic he did that when i mentioned i kinda liked that girl. but yea i should have told her the thing that really happened and confessed to her when the time was right.  Onigawara Rin best girlllllll!!!!!!!! |
 Give me that big phat lolipop |
| @Deknijff I didn't even mean respect in that way I meant it as in you'd treat a character the same as any other character based on their personality and actions I'm not really sure what you mean. Every single one of us can have favorites and harbor one character better than the others. It all just boils down to taste. When you think about treating a character the same as any other based on the standards of personality and actions, this also contributes to the way I think. I just can't truly respect a character whose personality is just there to make them more attractive and actions are there for watchers to be aroused at. The standards are different for everyone. ignoring I think the jokes in TLR are funny I'm going to have to have you explain how SY is self aware and TLR is not SY constantly makes jokes that suggests that it's aware of the typical harem atmosphere around. Even at the start of the show the girls accused the MC of trying to live the harem life due to being in what used to be an All Girls School. While To Love Ru takes advantage of the many girls there are by throwing them at Rito in risque positions following the typical format of a harem anime. I don't see how that matters. Sure the show stays the same after but you were talking about Rito so it disproves what you said about him not being self conscious and not feeling bad for his actions. Sure he wanted to stop before that but having a chapter to point to is useful I can't really find this useful in any way. I'm sorry but, all that chapter did was acknowledge Rito Yuki's penchant for accidental perversion and then forget about it in the next. How exactly did it do anything for Rito in general besides just being another gag? How was it "useful" exactly to have a chapter like that when it's practically pointless as it never really does anything for Rito except to, again, show him how hopeless it was to stop it? Did he give up? Did something change in the way he thought things over? I don't want to be offensive, but isn't this typical Family Guy formula? But I'll give you one thing, you did point out a chapter that disproves the majority of what I said. I will admit that it's been a long while since I've last seen To Love Ru. been over 5 years and I still laugh at this every time the humor of SY is 90% sex jokes 8% Suzu is like a child jokes and 2% Mitsuba might be in love with Tsuda jokes so I have no clue what you're even doing right now honestly Then there it is. The difference between you and me is taste. Like many people, I just find it difficult to laugh at the same joke after hearing it for the seventh time. SY's jokes may specifically cater to sex jokes, but the sex jokes in itself are different every time to feel refreshing and even touches on Japanese word play while the gag on Suzu's height actually have different variations from being treated. I find it to be quite clever. As for To Love Ru, eh I like it. But it's more ecchi and fun than funny for me. Borderline hentai even. Like I mentioned before, the only "jokes" that To Love Ru seems to have is always finding a way to strip a girl of her clothes and/or make Yuki Rito accidentally grope them. Sure, there are different variations but I don't feel as though it's even set up in a clever way. We can already see the punchline coming in from a mile away. That's why I said I thought it was cheap. Id consider it art. It having sex doesn't devalue it to me when it comes to everything else. Thats why I have 4 doujins in my fav section. I don't consider a work just sex. If it was just sex it wouldn't be able to target to anyone else nor stand out from other things however small it maybe from the rest Well I can respect that. It's your point of view, but it's quite different for me. While I don't think sex devalues it, I have a hard time considering porn to be a work of art. Maybe at times porn can be clever, but it is just animalistic loveless sex. @Yato-God69 What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. But I at least hope that he felt like an asshole about it and not just try to laugh it off. |
User627Oct 13, 2017 4:39 AM
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: I mean as in treat them equally like another character who hasn’t done anything wrong with a certain amount of decency and not falsely accuse them of being sex objects I didn't even mean respect in that way I'm not really sure what you mean. Every single one of us can have favorites and harbor one character better than the others. It all just boils down to taste.I meant it as in you'd treat a character the same as any other character based on their personality and actions When you think about treating a character the same as any other based on the standards of personality and actions, this also contributes to the way I think. I just can't truly respect a character whose personality is just there to make them more attractive and actions are there for watchers to be aroused at. The standards are different for everyone. But yes of course you can care for one character over another but thats not what I’m arguing. You don’t have to care about the characters in TLR but to call them sex objects for that then you’re just plain wrong. User627 said: if all it took was for SY to mention harem once then you’ve lost because of the multitudes of times harem is mentioned in TLR ignoring I think the jokes in TLR are funny I'm going to have to have you explain how SY is self aware and TLR is not SY constantly makes jokes that suggests that it's aware of the typical harem atmosphere around. Even at the start of the show the girls accused the MC of trying to live the harem life due to being in what used to be an All Girls School. While To Love Ru takes advantage of the many girls there are by throwing them at Rito in risque positions following the typical format of a harem anime.User627 said: I don’t see how comparing it to something great like FG or The Simpsons would be offensive I don't see how that matters. Sure the show stays the same after but you were talking about Rito so it disproves what you said about him not being self conscious and not feeling bad for his actions. Sure he wanted to stop before that but having a chapter to point to is useful I can't really find this useful in any way. I'm sorry but, all that chapter did was acknowledge Rito Yuki's penchant for accidental perversion and then forget about it in the next. How exactly did it do anything for Rito in general besides just being another gag? How was it "useful" exactly to have a chapter like that when it's practically pointless as it never really does anything for Rito except to, again, show him how hopeless it was to stop it? Did he give up? Did something change in the way he thought things over? I don't want to be offensive, but isn't this typical Family Guy formula?But I'll give you one thing, you did point out a chapter that disproves the majority of what I said. User627 said: the ways TLR achieves those impossible strips are funny to me because of how impossible it is and is almost always more extreme than before. SY on the other hand might have another punchline but in the end you’ll always know its a sex joke so I don’t see how its any different been over 5 years and I still laugh at this every time Then there it is. The difference between you and me is taste.the humor of SY is 90% sex jokes 8% Suzu is like a child jokes and 2% Mitsuba might be in love with Tsuda jokes so I have no clue what you're even doing right now honestly Like many people, I just find it difficult to laugh at the same joke after hearing it for the seventh time. SY's jokes may specifically cater to sex jokes, but the sex jokes in itself are different every time to feel refreshing and even touches on Japanese word play while the gag on Suzu's height actually have different variations from being treated. I find it to be quite clever. As for To Love Ru, eh I like it. But it's more ecchi and fun than funny for me. Borderline hentai even. Like I mentioned before, the only "jokes" that To Love Ru seems to have is always finding a way to strip a girl of her clothes and/or make Yuki Rito accidentally grope them. Sure, there are different variations but I don't feel as though it's even set up in a clever way. We can already see the punchline coming in from a mile away. That's why I said I thought it was cheap. User627 said: I could point to romantic hentai and doujins though which are filled with couples being in love and having sex Id consider it art. It having sex doesn't devalue it to me when it comes to everything else. Thats why I have 4 doujins in my fav section. Well I can respect that. It's your point of view, but it's quite different for me. While I don't think sex devalues it, I have a hard time considering porn to be a work of art. Maybe at times porn can be clever, but it is just animalistic loveless sex.I don't consider a work just sex. If it was just sex it wouldn't be able to target to anyone else nor stand out from other things however small it maybe from the rest |
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| @Deknijff No, I'm not really plain wrong for calling them sex objects. Like I said, it doesn't matter whether or not I consider them to be sex objects because it all really boils down to our perspectives on how we each view the show. I already discussed how I view what a sex object is to you. If you want to know more, here: https://reelrundown.com/animation/Objectification-in-Anime Listen to this guy try to describe it. He enjoys the show, but he doesn't shy away from the fact that the girls are sexualized. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--lVNFxXvy0 Also, quick note. His favorite is Momo and Yui so I'm not sure if you have a distaste for what Momo did to Nana under the bridge but... if all it took was for SY to mention harem once then you’ve lost because of the multitudes of times harem is mentioned in TLR I didn't mean that one mention exactly was the whole reason why SY was self aware. I meant on the format exactly. SY's jokes are actually changing from episode to episode. Even sex jokes can be repetitive. It isn't just about Tsuda accidentally groping girls time and time and again like Rito does, which is the main source of laughs for To Love Ru. SY is self aware because the harem isn't just mentioned, but they actually play with the tropes of a harem rather than it just being another girl of the week Rito accidentally molests time and time and again. So what if the harem is called out? That's not self awareness in play, they're just calling it out whilst not really doing anything than ecchi, and ecchi alone. I don’t see how comparing it to something great like FG or The Simpsons would be offensive the ways TLR achieves those impossible strips are funny to me because of how impossible it is and is almost always more extreme than before. SY on the other hand might have another punchline but in the end you’ll always know its a sex joke so I don’t see how its any different Like I said, TLR is more fun than funny. Those impossible strips that you've mentioned are used time and time and again. That gets repetitive when that's the only joke. Family Guy isn't necessarily bad. But it can get bland and stale after you've watched so many episodes of Peter and his family just being goofballs/psychopaths/sociopaths but they do have rather clever ones. Also, to deviate away from To Love Ru, I am just curious. Who exactly is your best girl out of the series? |
User627Oct 13, 2017 6:44 AM
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: I said your definition from perception was wrong so of course you're plain wrong in calling the girls in TLR just sex objects No, I'm not really plain wrong for calling them sex objects. Like I said, it doesn't matter whether or not I consider them to be sex objects because it all really boils down to our perspectives on how we each view the show. I already discussed how I view what a sex object is to you. If you want to know more, here: https://reelrundown.com/animation/Objectification-in-Anime User627 said: I watched the first minute and 30 seconds for a quick refresh on the video since its been a while since I watched it. But yeah still awful and stupid and is only useful if you want a good laugh. Listen to this guy try to describe it. He enjoys the show, but he doesn't shy away from the fact that the girls are sexualized. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--lVNFxXvy0 Of course they are sexualised but that doesn't change the character within User627 said: Dude has shit taste thenAlso, quick note. His favorite is Momo User627 said: If SY is self aware then TLR is self aware as they are just like each other format wise in the fact they basically only have one kind of punch line. The core difference would be the cast. They don't change from episode to episode. They just use a different sex joke just like TLR uses another way to strip a character User627 said: SY is self aware because the harem isn't just mentioned, but they actually play with the tropes of a harem rather than it just being another girl of the week Rito accidentally molests time and time and again. So what if the harem is called out? That's not self awareness in play, they're just calling it out whilst not really doing anything than ecchi, and ecchi alone.I didn't mean that one mention exactly was the whole reason why SY was self aware. I meant on the format exactly. SY's jokes are actually changing from episode to episode. Even sex jokes can be repetitive. It isn't just about Tsuda accidentally groping girls time and time and again like Rito does, which is the main source of laughs for To Love Ru. Last I checked SY doesn't play with any of the tropes in harem anime with the exception of saying tsundere once or twice. User627 said: Nana is my best girl but Im willing to admit Yami is slightly the more developed character do to having been in the show longer and having more screen time and is basically what made Darkness such a great Arc Also, to deviate away from To Love Ru, I am just curious. Who exactly is your best girl out of the series? |
DeknijffOct 13, 2017 7:20 AM
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User627 said: @Deknijff I didn't even mean respect in that way I meant it as in you'd treat a character the same as any other character based on their personality and actions I'm not really sure what you mean. Every single one of us can have favorites and harbor one character better than the others. It all just boils down to taste. When you think about treating a character the same as any other based on the standards of personality and actions, this also contributes to the way I think. I just can't truly respect a character whose personality is just there to make them more attractive and actions are there for watchers to be aroused at. The standards are different for everyone. ignoring I think the jokes in TLR are funny I'm going to have to have you explain how SY is self aware and TLR is not SY constantly makes jokes that suggests that it's aware of the typical harem atmosphere around. Even at the start of the show the girls accused the MC of trying to live the harem life due to being in what used to be an All Girls School. While To Love Ru takes advantage of the many girls there are by throwing them at Rito in risque positions following the typical format of a harem anime. I don't see how that matters. Sure the show stays the same after but you were talking about Rito so it disproves what you said about him not being self conscious and not feeling bad for his actions. Sure he wanted to stop before that but having a chapter to point to is useful I can't really find this useful in any way. I'm sorry but, all that chapter did was acknowledge Rito Yuki's penchant for accidental perversion and then forget about it in the next. How exactly did it do anything for Rito in general besides just being another gag? How was it "useful" exactly to have a chapter like that when it's practically pointless as it never really does anything for Rito except to, again, show him how hopeless it was to stop it? Did he give up? Did something change in the way he thought things over? I don't want to be offensive, but isn't this typical Family Guy formula? But I'll give you one thing, you did point out a chapter that disproves the majority of what I said. I will admit that it's been a long while since I've last seen To Love Ru. been over 5 years and I still laugh at this every time the humor of SY is 90% sex jokes 8% Suzu is like a child jokes and 2% Mitsuba might be in love with Tsuda jokes so I have no clue what you're even doing right now honestly Then there it is. The difference between you and me is taste. Like many people, I just find it difficult to laugh at the same joke after hearing it for the seventh time. SY's jokes may specifically cater to sex jokes, but the sex jokes in itself are different every time to feel refreshing and even touches on Japanese word play while the gag on Suzu's height actually have different variations from being treated. I find it to be quite clever. As for To Love Ru, eh I like it. But it's more ecchi and fun than funny for me. Borderline hentai even. Like I mentioned before, the only "jokes" that To Love Ru seems to have is always finding a way to strip a girl of her clothes and/or make Yuki Rito accidentally grope them. Sure, there are different variations but I don't feel as though it's even set up in a clever way. We can already see the punchline coming in from a mile away. That's why I said I thought it was cheap. Id consider it art. It having sex doesn't devalue it to me when it comes to everything else. Thats why I have 4 doujins in my fav section. I don't consider a work just sex. If it was just sex it wouldn't be able to target to anyone else nor stand out from other things however small it maybe from the rest Well I can respect that. It's your point of view, but it's quite different for me. While I don't think sex devalues it, I have a hard time considering porn to be a work of art. Maybe at times porn can be clever, but it is just animalistic loveless sex. @Yato-God69 What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. But I at least hope that he felt like an asshole about it and not just try to laugh it off. no. he didnt at all he continued to think everything was still normal, sad |
Give me that big phat lolipop |
| @Deknijff Look, I really don't want to be offensive. But it seems to me that you're more concerned with being in the correct rather than just accept the fact that you and I have different perspectives. Unless you tell me why my perspective is wrong than just saying I'm wrong for calling them sex objects when others also called them the same, it's not really going to accomplish anything. I watched the first minute and 30 seconds for a quick refresh on the video since its been a while since I watched it. But yeah still awful and stupid and is only useful if you want a good laugh. Of course they are sexualised but that doesn't change the character within What do you mean by awful and stupid? You didn't even watch the full video. He said TLR was good for if you know what you're getting into, just don't expect anything deep. He even properly explained his stance, and I agree with him. Also, what character within? This only is specific to your taste. Please do try to keep an open mind. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying To Love Ru. Enjoy it for whatever reasons that you like and I totally support you. But my thoughts aren't changing any time soon. In short, you like To Love Ru. I understand that. So do I, but for different reasons. You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to agree with anyone. It's all about perspective. @Yato-God69 Get buff. Then give him a piece of your mind if he ever does that again. |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: Well yes I am more concerned in the fact of emphasising you're wrong here because you are. But Im well aware we have different perspectives in this matter but doesn't change the fact in this instant you are indeed wrong Look, I really don't want to be offensive. But it seems to me that you're more concerned with being in the correct rather than just accept the fact that you and I have different perspectives. User627 said: The reason you're wrong is because change isn't the only form a character can take by going from point A to point B or character development as its called. Character is also about establishing behaviour and personality. The girls in TLR all have personalities. They have likes and dislikes, moments of joy and sadness and bonds and interactions with each other. Nana acts different depending on who she is next to be it Mea, Lala, Rito, her mom or Momo. Most of the characters all act different depending on the situation based off of their established character. You can't call characters with such good characterisation just sex objects. Unless you tell me why my perspective is wrong than just saying I'm wrong for calling them sex objects when others also called them the same, it's not really going to accomplish anything. User627 said: Ive watched the video before. He just generalises all harems as the same and says there is no character development in TLR when there isI watched the first minute and 30 seconds for a quick refresh on the video since its been a while since I watched it. But yeah still awful and stupid and is only useful if you want a good laugh. What do you mean by awful and stupid? You didn't even watch the full video. He said TLR was good for if you know what you're getting into, just don't expect anything deep. He even properly explained his stance, and I agree with him.Of course they are sexualised but that doesn't change the character within User627 said: Im referring to their personalities which they act upon Also, what character within? This only is specific to your taste. User627 said: I have kept an open mind and understood your view point on several things but this is something which you're just wrong about.Please do try to keep an open mind. User627 said: Certain things are indeed about perspective but this isn't one of those moments In short, you like To Love Ru. I understand that. So do I, but for different reasons. You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to agree with anyone. It's all about perspective. |
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| @Deknijff *sigh* Yes, yes. I'm clearly in the wrong because my perspective clashes with yours and anyone else who doesn't agree with you must also be wrong. Enjoy the show. Here I thought you actually had a piece of mind, but you're just one of those folks on the net who can't handle it when someone has a different opinion and they absolutely have to be wrong. I'm disappointed. No, you didn't keep an open mind at all. I'd say you're wrong in this matter because your perspective clashes with mine. I acknowledge the fact that you have your own perspective, you're perspective is just wrong. Does it really matter though? No amount of you trying to argue it will make me change my mind that TLR character's are one dimensional and are sexualized. Of course they have personality, but the many clips from the show itself just scream out objectification of the girls there. Even just a simple Google search of images will fill my screen with 97% sex objects. This is entertainment. There is no right or wrong here. You're bringing your bias to where it isn't welcome. |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: on this issue of the context of this discussion yes indeed those who would disagree are indeed wrong. @Deknijff *sigh* Yes, yes. I'm clearly in the wrong because my perspective clashes with yours and anyone else who doesn't agree with you must also be wrong. User627 said: Why are you acting like Im being a douche when all this time Ive listened to your point of view understood it and said ok fine feel like that but now when I'm just saying you're factually wrong then Im unopened to seeing your point of view suddenly. I understand your point of view and I'm just saying in this case you're wrong. Here I thought you actually had a piece of mind, but you're just one of those folks on the net who can't handle it when someone has a different opinion and they absolutely have to be wrong. I'm disappointed. User627 said: You say I'm unopened to perspective yet here you say no matter what proof I could point to it wouldn't change you mind Does it really matter though? No amount of you trying to argue it will make me change my mind that TLR character's are one dimensional  so this is what Bill felt like when debating Ham  User627 said: Just because they are sexualised doesn't mean they are just sex objects since they are characters with personalities and do things on their own accord Of course they have personality, but the many clips from the show itself just scream out objectification of the girls there. Even just a simple Google search of images will fill my screen with 97% sex objects. So what if Google gives you that? When I google my favourite show 95% of the pics are of Shana. Doesn't mean thats the only thing in the show User627 said: There are indeed times when there is no right or wrong and only opinions but this is not one of those times This is entertainment. There is no right or wrong here. You're bringing your bias to where it isn't welcome. |
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| @Deknijff Why are you so adamant about changing the way I view it? And just how exactly is this not a matter of only opinions. Have you somehow taken offense to me calling them "sex objects?" You can say that I'm wrong and then I say you're wrong. It only goes back and forth. In regards to my views on them being sex objects, I believe all that's needed to be said has been said. When I mentioned that you couldn't change my mind is in the way things are argued. You keep saying they're wrong because you have a different definition of it, but you don't actually tell me what that definition is. You say that they have personality and that stops them from being sex objects, hentai characters have personalities too and they're very much sex objects as materials for us to fap to. Copy Pasted from Google: Sex Object: a person regarded by another only in terms of their sexual attractiveness or availability. Take a look at this if you're not convinced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification Also I quote from this wiki: Although opinions differ as to which situations are objectionable, So yeah, this is clearly a time where opinions and perspectives matter. Also, quote again: see objectification of women taking place in the sexually oriented depictions of women in advertising and media, women being portrayed as weak or submissive through pornography, images in more mainstream media such as advertising and art, stripping and prostitution, Take note: images in more mainstream media Wiki even gives an example of images of women in bikinis not having sex. Sure, they have their own personality, but they are still being objectified to sex. With so many of these things practically defining TLR, how are you possibly going to convince me otherwise? |
User627Oct 13, 2017 8:58 AM
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
| Damn, wikipedia is such a credible source of information. You can take anything from there as true and accurate. |
SomeEdgeLord said: I WILL report you from this forum if this continues. In real life, I am one of the coldest, unsympathetic, people you'll ever know, who's grown up in an even colder household, you really don't want me to break my persona, I know how to make people feel bad. YearnsforAttention said: hm who has 1656 friends on MAL that's right me bye bye YearnsforAttention said: I don't want your approval how many damn times do I need to say it I enjoy irritating you I am gonna do things MY way |
| I lost some brain cell reading what User627 posted |
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NoobAsian said: Damn, wikipedia is such a credible source of information. You can take anything from there as true and accurate. You have to read it first and decide for yourself whether or not it makes sense. For times I used Wikipedia, I found that they're quite accurate. No way to know for real on a subject like this. I've already provided plenty of examples not from Wikipedia with the same outlook. LoliNinja- said: This discussion --------> shaking my smh So you're "shaking my shaking my head?" |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
elementkg said: I lost some brain cell reading what User627 posted Be careful, you can't exactly get those back. |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: elementkg said: I lost some brain cell reading what User627 posted Be careful, you can't exactly get those back. Yeah if I lose anymore I'll be able to take you seriously |
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| @elementkg Then don't. You'll never know if I'm just trolling. For realsies, sorry about your lost brain cells. |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: I not taking offence. You need to stop assuming that. Im just saying you're wrong.And just how exactly is this not a matter of only opinions. Have you somehow taken offense to me calling them "sex objects?" User627 said: and Ive also said all that needs to be said too.In regards to my views on them being sex objects, I believe all that's needed to be said has been said. User627 said: Sex Object: a person regarded by another only in terms of their sexual attractivenessWhen I mentioned that you couldn't change my mind is in the way things are argued. You keep saying they're wrong because you have a different definition of it, but you don't actually tell me what that definition is. You say that they have personality and that stops them from being sex objects, hentai characters have personalities too and they're very much sex objects as materials for us to fap to. Copy Pasted from Google: Sex Object: a person regarded by another only in terms of their sexual attractiveness or availability Take a look at this if you're not convinced.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification Also I quote from this wiki: Although opinions differ as to which situations are objectionable, So yeah, this is clearly a time where opinions and perspectives matter. Also, quote again: see objectification of women taking place in the sexually oriented depictions of women in advertising and media, women being portrayed as weak or submissive through pornography, images in more mainstream media such as advertising and art, stripping and prostitution, Take note: images in more mainstream media Wiki even gives an example of images of women in bikinis not having sex. Sure, they have their own personality, but they are still being objectified to sex. With so many of these things practically defining TLR, how are you possibly going to convince me otherwise? The characters in the show aren't just that. Thats why Im saying they're not just sex objects They are indeed put in sexual situations and sometimes its objectification if you want to call it that but its not the only thing there |
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| I think there is one aspect you are missing. Every character is an MC in their own story. Side characters get girls too. They just aren't revealed in the MC's story. Also, I think Kono subarashii is an exception. This MC goes well with any of the three girls. |
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| @Deknijff Okay, you're not taking offense. Sorry for misinterpreting. I hope you continue to not take offense. and Ive also said all that needs to be said too. No, you haven't. You haven't said all that's needed to be said. I've placed up examples around the net and even definitions as to why I view them as sex objects and all you keep saying in their defense is that they have "personality" deep inside. It doesn't matter if they have personality. Even hentai characters have personality before they're inevitably stripped for fapping material. That's what To Love Ru's characters are: fapping material with personalities added for more attractivness. Read the whole context of the definition and wiki page I gave you instead of just cutting corners to make yourself seem right. Let's take a look at the Dead or Alive cast. Sure, they have personality and can kick ass, that doesn't stop them from being objectified the way they are. Although, I don't necessarily see it that way from my point of view, but if someone can make an argument as to why he sees them as sex toys, I wouldn't blame him. These people are inanimate objects, not even physical but just drawings on a screen. No matter how much "respect" you have for them, they'll never respect you back. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you see of them or even your opinions, it's pointless to have any semblance of admiration for them, because they sure as hell won't care but we do it anyway for our own reasons. So tell me again, why is it wrong to view them as sex objects exactly? Based on evidence, you're the one who's wrong. |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
GrimorumInvoke said: I think there is one aspect you are missing. Every character is an MC in their own story. Side characters get girls too. They just aren't revealed in the MC's story. Also, I think Kono subarashii is an exception. This MC goes well with any of the three girls. There are characters out there who are made fun of just for the sake of making another character shine in a better light. |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: You can view them as however you want but calling them just sex objects is wrong as Ive said. Even by the very definition you posted So tell me again, why is it wrong to view them as sex objects exactly? Sex Object: a person regarded by another only in terms of their sexual attractiveness Now sure you might not be able to see the characterisation in their well grounded established personalities of the characters and the development the characters take. But I can point to examples in the show and manga which shows its there. The characters aren't just dressed up fetishes for the watchers who don't have anything else to offer. |
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| @Deknijff Let's take a look at that definition again shall we, but on the other half of the sentence? Sex Object: a person *regarded by another only in terms of their sexual attractiveness. *Regarded: consider or think of (someone or something) in a specified way. Don't you get it yet? It's purely objective. There's nothing right or wrong about this. You keep saying that they have personality, okay they do, but that doesn't stop them from being sexualized as fap material in my eyes. Therefore, sexual objectification. The definition I've posted is correct and sound. You just keep saying I'm wrong with, again, no evidence. Seriously, have you even seen the Youtube link I've sent you? It wasn't just good for laughs as you call it, so you're already so wrong there. It may have a comedic edge, but its analysis of TLR was on point and properly explained. Yet you just refuse to even listen to it properly. That's why you've disregard Douchebagchocolat as nothing more than comedic value. |
User627Oct 14, 2017 4:14 AM
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
User627 said: Seriously, have you even seen the Youtube link I've sent you? It wasn't just good for laughs as you call it, so you're already so wrong there. It may have a comedic edge, but its analysis of TLR was on point and properly explained. Yet you just refuse to even listen to it properly. That's why you've disregard Douchebagchocolat as nothing more than comedic value. Deknijff said: I watched the first minute and 30 seconds for a quick refresh on the video since its been a while since I watched it. Deknijff said: While the word indeed has an objective meaning User and indeed includes the fact of personal view there is the problem that we have opposing views on this. And as such we must look at the show itself to see who's perspective is objectively correct. You say TLR characters are only sex objects but when looking at the show thats not the only thing that is there. There is well grounded characterisation, plot points and character development which one can like. Which is why Ive highlighted this so many timesIve watched the video before Sex Object: a person regarded by another only in terms of their sexual attractiveness But as you've said beforeUser627 said: Feel free to feel like that just like with any other kind of show but Im just saying that based off the show and whats there you're wrong in calling them just sex objects Does it really matter though? No amount of you trying to argue it will make me change my mind that TLR character's are one dimensional |
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| @Deknijff That's the problem. You just admitted that the entire thing was objective and that's the problem, but then you go on to say that I'm wrong in my views despite it being objective in the first place. We both watched the show and we both found different things. While you saw "well grounded characterization" I saw absolutely none of those things you're talking about. Character development never lasts long and only really serves to make another girl like Rito Yuki. So character development in TLR is really nothing more than just another excuse to have women throw themselves at Rito. Even his own sister's character development is nothing more than a journey for her to discover that she's a brocon. You really think I didn't watch the show myself? I can't take this seriously as well grounded characterization because all these characters are just Rito Yuki's cosmetics. I'm not really wrong in calling them sex objects. You just feel as though I'm wrong in calling them sex objects because you see the show differently. You said it yourself that it was objective. |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
| I really want a lesbian harem anime... |
| Heya, I'm Mystic, the NSFW voice actress & anime girl streamer! https://twitter.com/MagicalMysticVA https://discord.gg/uy6vSyH |
User627 said: I said the word has an objective meaning but if you remember correctly something being a sex object depends on who is the viewer and their mindset. You say the girls in TLR are just sex objects. I say they're not. Now we are both free to see it as however we want. But there is but only one objective truth in regards to the actual characters themselves. If they were just sex objects they'd be nothing else but just very physically attractive women as the author could just write them as that and add nothing elseYou just admitted that the entire thing was objective and that's the problem, but then you go on to say that I'm wrong in my views despite it being objective in the first place. User627 said: Ah well I can’t help it if you can't see it man. Because its there.We both watched the show and we both found different things. While you saw "well grounded characterization" I saw absolutely none of those things you're talking about.  Be it the characterisation of Lala who is childish at heart but is always there when thinking someone needs help and tries to make things better. Be it acting like a problem child to make her sisters stop fighting because she wants them to get along. Be it that she is stubborn against authority because she wants to be free at heart and as such she runs away from home whenever she feels shackled to chains. While being very intelligent when it comes to technology and being able to quickly learn how to be accustomed to human teachings at school she still has her short comings in understanding how to cook human food as she lived on another planted which has its own costumes in terms of social norms and food  Nana who is slightly snobbish and looks down on others based off of her royal heritage since she is a Princess. Which is shown with how she constantly would dismiss things Momo would say by throwing in the fact she was born first. She later as she gets older becomes self conscious over her lack of developing breasts and grows very sensitive over that because she wants to look as mature as she feels and is annoyed Momo gets all the attention do to her bust and her fake acts of maturity. Nana is indeed childish in how she acts with how she says kissing should only be something married couples do yet she has acts of maturity as shown when Lala didn't understand why Rito didn’t want to kiss her back and she explained how she would feel and that is most likely how Rito was feeling  Momo who always acts proper in front of others for attention to look better than what she thinks she is as she is weighted down on the fact she is the 3rd and last in line to the throne which she was constantly reminded of by Nana in childhood. Which now in her older years has made her very prone to making fun of Nana’s breast size as she feels its the one physical thing that makes her feel more mature than Nana. She is also manipulative from the shadows as she is very inclined in getting what she wants yet still wants to keep up a charade of seeming better than she actually is as mentioned before.  Yami who started off innocent and vibrant but then as she lived for years of being an assassin started being emotionally distant and cold blooded as it was the only way for her to coop with the every day life which was her life style and seeing herself as not a person but a weapon after several years of doing this. She comes to terms with this as she lives on earth with people she later starts considering friends and family like Mikan and Mea which makes her finally stop seeing herself as just a weapon but as a person Now Im not saying every character has the same level of characterisation do to them having different amounts of screen time and introductions to the story but for the majority of them they have enough characterisation to not be deemed sex objects User627 said: So you admit there is character development. Just not character development which fits to your liking Character development never lasts long and only really serves to make another girl like Rito Yuki. So character development in TLR is really nothing more than just another excuse to have women throw themselves at Rito. Even his own sister's character development is nothing more than a journey for her to discover that she's a brocon. You really think I didn't watch the show myself? all character development is just an excuse to reach a point of some kind. Just like with that forced drama from SNAFU which we discussed before was character development for Hachi to open up to his female friends User627 said: that is your very problem. You limit yourself to only calling them part of Rito's harem. So you seem to be unable to actually judge the characters themselves and only look at them in relation to where they are with RitoI can't take this seriously as well grounded characterization because all these characters are just Rito Yuki's cosmetics. |
DeknijffOct 14, 2017 9:56 PM
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| @DarkAnimeAngel Are you sure there isn't already one out there? @Deknijff Looking at your post, I start to wonder if we were watching the same show. All that character you mentioned actually seems interesting, but it's completely undermined by the fact that they are sexualized as fapping material for many males out there. Again, back to what I said, personality doesn't matter here. I suppose I should've made my stance much clearer. Anybody can be a sex object if one person looked at it from a certain angle. Take a stripper from a bar for example, she's sexualized but has a personal life outside her work. But to the patrons of that strip bar doesn't care that she's a single mother trying to support her child and only see her for her T&A. Even the characters from Oregairu can be sex objects depending on how one views it, want proof? Take a look at the images in Gelbooru (warning: NSFW) and tell me they're not being turned into sexualized objects for fapping material. that is your very problem. You limit yourself to only calling them part of Rito's harem. So you seem to be unable to actually judge the characters themselves and only look at them in relation to where they are with Rito I'm pretty sure Douchebagchocolat already mentioned this in his Youtube video if you've actually listened to it instead of disregarding it as "just for laughs" that they try to be serious but never really goes anywhere and winds up just being another punch line for Yuki Rito's harem. There's really no real progress in the show. Again, I'm surprised at what you described because they genuinely do seem interesting characters. But it's a waste nonetheless because of the way they're treated. But this isn't well grounded characterization, because their characters aren't well grounded to begin with. None of their personal dilemma's matter really (except for Yami getting her own story arc) most of their personalities are played for laughs and the few times they try to be dramatic it never goes anywhere stunting actual character development. In all honesty, I think the show would've been better off if it was just between Rito and Yami. Or maybe even Yui. So you admit there is character development. Just not character development which fits to your liking all character development is just an excuse to reach a point of some kind. Just like with that forced drama from SNAFU which we discussed before was character development for Hachi to open up to his female friends The story trying to be serious in TLR for me is very much the same as your opinion of that one Oregairu scene for me, forced drama. That's why I said that their characters aren't well grounded for me, because the show never really portrays their personalities with much respect itself. Like I said, there is character development but it's just an excuse for the girls to fall in love with Rito. This a harem so I can understand why but this doesn't make it any less of a cliche in how they handle it. Also, with so many interesting female characters you've described why the hell is it that Yuki Rito is so damn niche and bland at best? |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
| no one wants to live as the side character in a harem genre lmoa |
User627 said: @DarkAnimeAngel Are you sure there isn't already one out there? @Deknijff Looking at your post, I start to wonder if we were watching the same show. All that character you mentioned actually seems interesting, but it's completely undermined by the fact that they are sexualized as fapping material for many males out there. Again, back to what I said, personality doesn't matter here. I suppose I should've made my stance much clearer. Anybody can be a sex object if one person looked at it from a certain angle. Take a stripper from a bar for example, she's sexualized but has a personal life outside her work. But to the patrons of that strip bar doesn't care that she's a single mother trying to support her child and only see her for her T&A. Even the characters from Oregairu can be sex objects depending on how one views it, want proof? Take a look at the images in Gelbooru (warning: NSFW) and tell me they're not being turned into sexualized objects for fapping material. that is your very problem. You limit yourself to only calling them part of Rito's harem. So you seem to be unable to actually judge the characters themselves and only look at them in relation to where they are with Rito I'm pretty sure Douchebagchocolat already mentioned this in his Youtube video if you've actually listened to it instead of disregarding it as "just for laughs" that they try to be serious but never really goes anywhere and winds up just being another punch line for Yuki Rito's harem. There's really no real progress in the show. Again, I'm surprised at what you described because they genuinely do seem interesting characters. But it's a waste nonetheless because of the way they're treated. But this isn't well grounded characterization, because their characters aren't well grounded to begin with. None of their personal dilemma's matter really (except for Yami getting her own story arc) most of their personalities are played for laughs and the few times they try to be dramatic it never goes anywhere stunting actual character development. In all honesty, I think the show would've been better off if it was just between Rito and Yami. Or maybe even Yui. So you admit there is character development. Just not character development which fits to your liking all character development is just an excuse to reach a point of some kind. Just like with that forced drama from SNAFU which we discussed before was character development for Hachi to open up to his female friends The story trying to be serious in TLR for me is very much the same as your opinion of that one Oregairu scene for me, forced drama. That's why I said that their characters aren't well grounded for me, because the show never really portrays their personalities with much respect itself. Like I said, there is character development but it's just an excuse for the girls to fall in love with Rito. This a harem so I can understand why but this doesn't make it any less of a cliche in how they handle it. Also, with so many interesting female characters you've described why the hell is it that Yuki Rito is so damn niche and bland at best? I'm not sure. I haven't been able to find one so far. Do you know any? |
| Heya, I'm Mystic, the NSFW voice actress & anime girl streamer! https://twitter.com/MagicalMysticVA https://discord.gg/uy6vSyH |
User627 said: I do not care what other males do when watching the show. Im referring the show itself. Everything I mentioned is there so its factually correct. Them being sexualised doesn't erase what else is there.@Deknijff Looking at your post, I start to wonder if we were watching the same show. All that character you mentioned actually seems interesting, but it's completely undermined by the fact that they are sexualized as fapping material for many males out there. Again, back to what I said, personality doesn't matter here. User627 said: Anything can be a sex object in ones subjective perspective and mindset but then there is the objective world truth. This truth is what Im talking about for the show. I suppose I should've made my stance much clearer. Anybody can be a sex object if one person looked at it from a certain angle. Take a stripper from a bar for example, she's sexualized but has a personal life outside her work. But to the patrons of that strip bar doesn't care that she's a single mother trying to support her child and only see her for her T&A. Even the characters from Oregairu can be sex objects depending on how one views it, want proof? Take a look at the images in Gelbooru (warning: NSFW) and tell me they're not being turned into sexualized objects for fapping material. User627 said: Not everything in TLR revolves around the harem. If one reads all of TLR from start until the end of Darkness and says there was no progress at all all I can really say is that they're wrong. that is your very problem. You limit yourself to only calling them part of Rito's harem. So you seem to be unable to actually judge the characters themselves and only look at them in relation to where they are with Rito I'm pretty sure Douchebagchocolat already mentioned this in his Youtube video if you've actually listened to it instead of disregarding it as "just for laughs" that they try to be serious but never really goes anywhere and winds up just being another punch line for Yuki Rito's harem. There's really no real progress in the show.User627 said: The characters are indeed well grounded. If they weren't there wouldn't be this level of detail to each their individual character. As I said. Them being sexualised doesn't change whats there.Again, I'm surprised at what you described because they genuinely do seem interesting characters. But it's a waste nonetheless because of the way they're treated. But this isn't well grounded characterization, because their characters aren't well grounded to begin with. None of their personal dilemma's matter really (except for Yami getting her own story arc) most of their personalities are played for laughs and the few times they try to be dramatic it never goes anywhere stunting actual character development. The personal dilemmas matter to the characters themselves and affect their behaviour which forms their overall characterisation User627 said: Almost any work will be filled with things which are common in other works so it being a cliche doesn't matter. What matters is if its presented well within the show to ones standards which will determine if you like it or not So you admit there is character development. Just not character development which fits to your liking The story trying to be serious in TLR for me is very much the same as your opinion of that one Oregairu scene for me, forced drama.all character development is just an excuse to reach a point of some kind. Just like with that forced drama from SNAFU which we discussed before was character development for Hachi to open up to his female friends That's why I said that their characters aren't well grounded for me, because the show never really portrays their personalities with much respect itself. Like I said, there is character development but it's just an excuse for the girls to fall in love with Rito. This a harem so I can understand why but this doesn't make it any less of a cliche in how they handle it. now if you think their personalities aren't respected I don't care for that as it doesn't change the fact its there User627 said: would need to ask author himself as I don't know why he gets the weakest amount of character from my perspective. Also, with so many interesting female characters you've described why the hell is it that Yuki Rito is so damn niche and bland at best? |
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| @Insertanamehere That's what I wanted to point out. @DarkAnimeAngel I'm sorry, not really sure. But I think Irregular Magic at High School did. Haven't watched it and probably won't be any time soon. @Deknijff I do not care what other males do when watching the show. Im referring the show itself. Everything I mentioned is there so its factually correct. Them being sexualised doesn't erase what else is there. Yeah, it doesn't erase the fact that they're sexualized objects too made for fapping material. To Love Ru is pretty much borderline hentai and relies too much on fanservice to drive the plot. I do not care what other males do when watching the show. That's the problem. You don't care what other males do when they watch the show. You just want people to agree with your perception of the show itself. That's why you're so insistent. Just look at the reviews for To Love Ru itself regarding story and characters: https://myanimelist.net/anime/3455/To_LOVE-Ru/reviews I'll quote a few (from the top section itself so I'm not cherry picking) Character: I did enjoy watching some of the characters but a lot of them seemed neglected and didn't get much screen time, which kind of disappointed me. I know they're side characters but if they're going to show up more than a few times, make them do more than "Oops, you can see my panties" or accidentally get naked. I suppose in the end, I shouldn't expect more than that in a series like this. Oh look, another accidental boob-grab. Oh look, another accidental ass-grab. Oh look, he mentioned he likes Haruna again. Oh look, he was inadvertently prevented from confessing to her again. Oh look, he tripped and fell face-first into some random girl’s private parts again. Oh look, he got slapped again. Oh look, he got kicked again. Oh look, that assassin showed up again promising to kill him, again. Oh look, she turned up in his bed in the morning, again. Oh look, he got ridiculously shocked at finding her in his bed, again. Oh look, that girl reaffirmed her rivalry with Lala again. Oh look, he told Lala to stop being so affectionate and close. Again. Oh look, he got embarrassed again. Oh look, he got embarrassed again. Oh look, he got embarrassed again. The first episodes though.. 1-10 kept me well entertained.. and I laughed alot.. and the art is done really well.. and of course.. the fanservice is about the only thing that kept me interested enough to watch it.. the girls are very busty.. and very beautiful.. lol.. its hard not to enjoy Lala .. because shes buxom and clueless most of the time.. I liked most of the characters in this.. I didnt find any I didnt really care for much. So let me warn you with this in closing.. if you dont like fanservice/ecchi ..pass this up.. because its the only thing that keeps this series somewhat afloat.. due to the fact that its so accessive it makes you giggle a bit.. Would I suggest this anime? .... Yes... but to someone who just wants to watch something maybe as a change of pace or a break from a anime they just watched with a really deep storyline.. or if you just want to see alot of half naked girls with a couple laughs lol. This is just mindless, fun entertainment. 'To Love-ru' is an anime with one exclusive purpose - to supply the viewer with a fresh uninterrupted stream of ecchi, served with a side of slightly cliche but still grin inducing comedy. Now this is only going to work for those who are really into ecchi/comedy or something light-hearted in general as 'To love-ru' lacks any semblance of a plot and is entirely episodic. Character: I find the cast in general pretty generic, with a few exceptions. The male protagonist strikes me as the one of the most generic, if not THE MOST, characters in the entire series. It literally seems as if he was taken from another romance-comedy series and molded with a different character design. The same could be said for other characters as well who more or less resemble characters from other anime (though have yet to be developed or revealed). That's from the most helpful reviews. I didn't quote the whole review, as it would take the whole screen itself. Still, so many are practically saying this. Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me. To get to the point, pretty much every one of these reviewers all enjoyed the show. But they've got no illusions of any character depth. Most of them don't see any well grounded characterization and are only there for the ecchi. Almost any work will be filled with things which are common in other works so it being a cliche doesn't matter. What matters is if its presented well within the show to ones standards which will determine if you like it or not now if you think their personalities aren't respected I don't care for that as it doesn't change the fact its there I can agree that as long as cliche is presented well, it can be entertaining. Except that in To Love Ru a cliche is just that, a cliche. They don't really do anything clever with it and it just winds up being generic. In all honesty, I think it's just best for us to agree to disagree with the subject. This is getting really long and drawn out. I can see that you're passionate about To Love Ru and you're willing to go the extra mile to defend it. That's okay. We're all passionate about something. But at least accept the fact that others are going to have a different perspective and that doesn't make them wrong. Why don't we just change the subject? I'll just admit that there is some personality hidden in To Love Ru that I can't see that you can somehow. We've deviated way too much from the original topic. |
User627Oct 16, 2017 1:36 AM
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
'yeah but my point was anyone who'd want to live in a harem genre would want to be the MC not a side character |
Insertanamehere said: 'yeah but my point was anyone who'd want to live in a harem genre would want to be the MC not a side character Unfortunately, not everybody can be the main character. Somebody has to be the butt monkey, the joke, the one who's always getting the short end of the stick. If someone's the main character, then somebody has to be there for support. Did everybody just expect other characters in the anime world they'd be living into to be nothing more than scripted actors for their amusement? |
| La Li Lu Le Lo |
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