Madness, the body does decide. If the body has XY Chromosomes, they're a guy, if the Body has XX, they're a woman. Basic Biology. |
Nyu said: Madness, the body does decide. If the body has XY Chromosomes, they're a guy, if the Body has XX, they're a woman. Basic Biology. Well, I was only interpretating their views. In MY view though, even if you were right, that would only be on a biological sense. I believe what people call gender identity does not have to do with, nor does oppose the idea of biological gender. For example, a trangender would be someone who's biological gender is male, but has the identity gender (the mind/inner gender) of a female, or vice-versa. And I don't think them identifying as something different then their biological gender is be just a delusion in their heads as we clearly see enough cases of people suffering from that 'mind vs body' contradiction. The way I see it, biological gender is/would be/could be a thing, and gender identity is another, and there's no need to choose only one or the other. Both can exist as their own thing and both could be acknowledged (perharps even officially by adding 'gender identity' to our IDs or something). For pratical use, we could address people using pronouns linked to their gender identity (much like what the LGBT wants) and then use their biological gender when dealing with certain medical/biological matters. |
HyperLJun 4, 2017 12:22 PM
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
Nyu said: Madness, the body does decide. If the body has XY Chromosomes, they're a guy, if the Body has XX, they're a woman. Basic Biology. Get your head out of your "basic biology" and read advanced biology already. Anyway, as a transhumanist, I do not care about your basic biology and other remnants of the past. We gotta go forward. |
| True, I can only think of Shierke from Berserk, Motoko from GitS, Kanna from 20thCB, Seras from Hellsing Ultimate, Litner from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Faye from Cowboy Bebop and there's probably more, but not enough |
flannan said: Nyu said: Madness, the body does decide. If the body has XY Chromosomes, they're a guy, if the Body has XX, they're a woman. Basic Biology. Get your head out of your "basic biology" and read advanced biology already. Anyway, as a transhumanist, I do not care about your basic biology and other remnants of the past. We gotta go forward. I'm curious about what you think of my idea though. Do you think gender identity can be it's own thing and can live in harmony with the notion of biological gender? Or do you think the inclusion of trangenders should also count as biological and completely update/substitute the current notion biological gender? In other words, do you think it should be like this? Biological gender = male/female Identity gender = male/female/<insert other possible options here> (or maybe just cisgender/transgender) Or like this? (Biological?/Only) Gender = male/female/<insert other possible options here> |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
HyperL said: flannan said: Get your head out of your "basic biology" and read advanced biology already. Anyway, as a transhumanist, I do not care about your basic biology and other remnants of the past. We gotta go forward. I'm curious about what you think of my idea though. Do you think gender identity can be it's own thing and can live in harmony with the notion of biological gender? Or do you think the inclusion of trangenders should also count as biological and completely update/substitute the current notion biological gender? In other words, do you think it should be like this? Biological gender = male/female Identity gender = male/female/<insert other possible options here> (or maybe just cisgender/transgender) Or like this? (Biological?/Only) Gender = male/female/<insert other possible options here> I agree - there are many kinds of gender. While I consider gender identity to be the most important one, it does not mean a person's body or their avatar in virtual reality does not have gender. A person's behavior can also be stereotypically masculine or feminine. What I'm arguing here, is that all of these genders are not binary. Well, except for the VR avatar's gender - that one might be binary (but I've seen non-binary game characters too). A person might self-identify as futanari or as a genderless construct (which might or might not correspond to their birth circumstances), a person's body might be a complicated mess of conflicting hormones, multiple genotypes, surgical operations and viruses attempting to rewrite them, a real modern person's behavior usually combines both stereotypically masculine and feminine traits (for example, many modern men can cook and many modern women wear pants). |
| >Complains about lack of respectable female protagonists >Mostly watches shounen shit and ecchi trash |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
HyperL said: Nyu said: Madness, the body does decide. If the body has XY Chromosomes, they're a guy, if the Body has XX, they're a woman. Basic Biology. Well, I was only interpretating their views. In MY view though, even if you were right, that would only be on a biological sense. I believe what people call gender identity does not have to do with, nor does oppose the idea of biological gender. For example, a trangender would be someone who's biological gender is male, but has the identity gender (the mind/inner gender) of a female, or vice-versa. And I don't think them identifying as something different then their biological gender is be just a delusion in their heads as we clearly see enough cases of people suffering from that 'mind vs body' contradiction. The way I see it, biological gender is/would be/could be a thing, and gender identity is another, and there's no need to choose only one or the other. Both can exist as their own thing and both could be acknowledged (perharps even officially by adding 'gender identity' to our IDs or something). For pratical use, we could address people using pronouns linked to their gender identity (much like what the LGBT wants) and then use their biological gender when dealing with certain medical/biological matters. There's only really 2 variants. Biological gender, which is normal and Transgender. Transgender is backed up by Science, because many sources have shown people having the opposite gender's brain patterns. However, Transgender should just be referred by their Gender, or supposed gender. None of this Cis-gender stuff, normal people don't need another classification. And I don't like that mindset whatsoever, just because some people aren't normal doesn't mean you have to make up for that, by forcing some new classification on people. Though Gender Identity, like Gender-Fluid is completely delusional. Its one thing to think you're another gender, it's completely another to make stuff up as you go along. The Idea of Gender Identity on ID? Is utterly ridiculous, if people want to play pretend, then so be it, but to force it on everyone else? Is madness. I've already studied Biology at College level, so you can keep making that point all day. And another thing, Basic Biology doesn't suddenly stop existing just because you ignore Biology. HyperL said: In other words, do you think it should be like this? Biological gender = male/female Identity gender = male/female/<insert other possible options here> (or maybe just cisgender/transgender) Or like this? (Biological?/Only) Gender = male/female/<insert other possible options here> Gender and Sex should be categorised like this. Sex: Male / Female (If it was a Medical form, then XXY should be listed.) Gender: Male / Female (There is no need to list Transgender, as they either associate as a male or female.) That's insane, a person is Either Intersex, or isn't. People can't assume to have what they don't. Ya can't just suddenly assume you're rich can you? No. Genderless construct, I can't stop laughing, that has gotta be the funniest gender outta the 30 made up genders. Are they an AI Construct? It's like people steal this stuff from Science Fiction, next people will be assuming they're Dragons. |
RuneRemJun 4, 2017 11:59 PM
| Actually, i know exactly what you mean and i also hate that there are very little. The ONE that i can stand behind no matter what is the previous seasons YOUJO SENKI. I recommended it to the fullest to you and promise you will not be disappointed. Legit the best female MC I've ever witnessed in anime and I want a 2nd season for it so bad. |
 I have small reviews for almost ALL anime I've seen. Unlike any regular MAL page you've seen. Ever wondering what I've watched and what I think about it? Check my List out below! https://myanimelist.net/animelist/Iam_Jermaine |
If you really think this is true then you need to watch more anime. |
Nyu said: That's insane, a person is Either Intersex, or isn't. People can't assume to have what they don't. Ya can't just suddenly assume you're rich can you? No. Genderless construct, I can't stop laughing, that has gotta be the funniest gender outta the 30 made up genders. Are they an AI Construct? It's like people steal this stuff from Science Fiction, next people will be assuming they're Dragons. Welcome to the 21st century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin The world is crazy, and you just have to accept it. |
flannan said: Nyu said: That's insane, a person is Either Intersex, or isn't. People can't assume to have what they don't. Ya can't just suddenly assume you're rich can you? No. Genderless construct, I can't stop laughing, that has gotta be the funniest gender outta the 30 made up genders. Are they an AI Construct? It's like people steal this stuff from Science Fiction, next people will be assuming they're Dragons. Welcome to the 21st century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin The world is crazy, and you just have to accept it. Fortunately, I don't have to accept it, and all other rational people will resist this nonsense. |
Nyu said: flannan said: Welcome to the 21st century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin The world is crazy, and you just have to accept it. Fortunately, I don't have to accept it, and all other rational people will resist this nonsense. If you're a rational person, why are you watching anime? (Checks out profile) oh, you aren't watching anime. Go away. Anyway, I would not call you a rational person if you aren't looking into the future and making allowances for sci-fi concepts like AI. I would rather call you a luddite. |
HyperL said: TheBrainintheJar said: I truly wonder what would happen if I switched bodies. See, I consider my body nothing more than some matter that can movie on its own. Society prescribes it meaning. I don't. Another way of oppressing people is classifying them as dangerous. So I'd be wary of pointing the finger and calling someone a racist or a transphobic. Such name-calling can only ruin the discussion, not support it. I will not cower just because someone called me something nasty. A problem here is that I don't consider our bodies to be meaningful except as a bunch of matter we control. See above. Of course I don't feel connected to my body. I'm stuck with it, I was cursed with it and I live with it. The only reason I'd prefer a woman's body is because they do better socially than men. Well that's a bit close the views of LGBT. In other words, if our bodies are only matter, than they should have the right to consider themselves whatever they want, be it male, female or attack helicopter (this last one is a joke). The body doesn't decide what they are, the mind and the self does. The difference is that the body DOES matter to them in some way, otherwise some of them wouldn't opt to undergo full sex change operations, probably to fully be confortable with themselves (and to experience sex the way they desire XD). I don't like the attack helicopter meme, myself. I may disagree about the whole gender thing, but respecting those who disagree is the first step towards productive discourse. Anyway, the purpose of classifying matter is so I'll know what I'm up against. If I classify your body as 'male', I know you have a penis. Sexually, it helps me understand what to expect and what kind of things we can do. The body does matter, but in the 'big identity' thing. There is little meaning to it besides reproduction, no matter how many social narratives we rape our minds with. 'Male' and 'female' describe the matter you're made of, not who you are. 'Who you are', your soul (In the Aristotlian sense) cannot be captured in a single word. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Most actually good anime has good female charas. |
| I sort of like Jeanne from Shingeki not Bahamut (and the sequel) so far. But yes in general most girls, boys, everything between and anime in general is probably garbage |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| gezz what anime have you been watching? |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| there is a general lack of likeable women in anime/manga genre. if writers do put a respectable female character, she is edited out, her time is shortened, or she is changed. eg. misora naomi in death note. The women of anime are weak, shallow, stupid, annoying, useless, male-dependent, rag dolls, perverse, disgusting,........ most, anime anyway..... shoujo, josei women are dislikeable, despicable for different reasons: loud, obnoxious, dumb, boring, bland, abusive, rude, irritating, fanatical, narrow minded, rigid, childish.....  Tarextherex said: shoujo, josei women are dislikeable, despicable for different reasons:Actually just watch more shojo/josei loud, obnoxious, dumb, boring, bland, abusive, rude, irritating, fanatical, narrow minded, rigid, childish..... ps- i am a girl. |
PeachesRoseJul 3, 2017 11:22 PM
Saintrider891 said: Pyxus said: True, I can only think of Shierke from Berserk, Motoko from GitS, Kanna from 20thCB, Seras from Hellsing Ultimate, Litner from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Faye from Cowboy Bebop and there's probably more, but not enough Some of female you mention is Female Co-Protagonist . OP said Female Protagonist The lack of female protagonists is probably because there aren't a lot of male directors/main scriptwriters. So women step up and go get it. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| From my top 5 anime, 3 have really respectable female leads: Erin from Kemono no Souja Erin, Youko from Twelve Kingdoms and Ryouko from Zegapain. From my rated 8 or above shows, you can also find them in the characters of: Nausicaä from Kaze no Tani no Nausicaä, Balsa from Seirei no Moribito, Holo from Ookami to Koushinryou, Alicia from Senjou no Valkyria, Saki from Shinsekai yori, Eureka from Eureka Seven, Nodame from Nodame Cantabile, Togame from Katanagatari, Makise from Steins;Gate, Hakaze from Zetsuen no Tempest, Kaede from Bakemono no Ko. On a side note, Yona from Akatsuki no Yona definitely doesn't represent a respectable and strong female character. Actually, I would say she is the opposite of it. To me, this show was just a "bait", since in two cours she never showed any kind of true strength. No, "bullshit eyes" did not convince me. Well, this is my opinion at least. |
 |
LucisCaelum said: Less archetypal female characters, who aren't respectable and more Caska? Sounds paradoxic. erm pls explain, I am not well known with Berserk enough yet. |
| My thoughts exactly OP. It's so rare to come across a female character I can actually stand in anime. Most of them are only there to be otaku's waifus and boring love interests. Not that there's anything wrong with fan service or porn or anything (I'm pretty pro porn and sexual liberation), but even in shows that aren't ecchi and are supposed to be taken seriously women end up like this. There are many exceptions, of course! If you look for it, you can find well-written women. Ghibli films come to mind, I feel like the Attack on Titan ladies avoid sexualization and are actually given character, My Hero Academia has some cool female characters, and many more. I hope anime starts to move towards more fleshed out girls that aren't just there to fap to/smooch the protagonist when he saves the day... |
 ☆ My Anime Challenges ☆ My List ☆ |
| >Katniss Everdeen Literally no better than your average shonen protagonist |
| What about the entire mahou shoujo genre? |
| Most of the things you watch are aimed at young boys, that's why all characters feel this way. Not calling nekketsu a bad genre, but i personally dislike it and so avoid. I'm watching boku no hero for the saking of watching since it's pretty boring... The point is, if it bothers you that much why don't you try others genres? |
| Like others said there's plenty of respectable and well written heroines in anime. I'll give my own examples. Misty from Pokémon The heroines from Digimon Adventure 01 and 02. Ryuko Matoi from Kill La Kill Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell Winry,Hawkeye and the other heroines from Full Metal Alchemist and FMA Brotherhood Kagome from Inuyasha Akane from Ranma 1/2 The Studio Ghibli heroines Just to name a few so there's really not a lot of lack of them. Also am I the only one here who feels like there's a huge level of hypocrisy when it comes to how a female character ought to look,act and do in order to be respectable? Like most people demand for female characters to have larger and meaningful roles with more character depth and diversity to them yet those same people also say that unless that female character is not sexualized,not feminine,and not "soft" They cannot be taken seriously and respected. I know I'm using the more extreme examples here but still the fact that female characters of ANY medium let alone anime are starting to be judged harshly by what type of character they are even if that character is extremely well written regardless of what type of character she is and/or how she looks just comes across as hypocritical because you're still restricting what kind of female character you're trying to create just in a different fashion. Not to mention it's extremely insulting to some real life women who are more interested in being feminine or looking a little sexy because then they're made to look like fools or objects which is ironic given the whole point of wanting more strong female characters is to not label them in insulting tropes or group. This isn't meant to be a jab at the original poster. It's just something I've wanted to say for some time. |
kaijuguy19Aug 19, 2017 6:47 PM
kaijuguy19 said: Also am I the only one here who feels like there's a huge level of hypocrisy when it comes to how a female character ought to look,act and do in order to be respectable? Like most people demand for female characters to have larger and meaningful roles with more character depth and diversity to them yet those same people also say that unless that female character is not sexualized,not feminine,and not "soft" They cannot be taken seriously and respected. I know I'm using the more extreme examples here but still the fact that female characters of ANY medium let alone anime are starting to be judged harshly by what type of character they are even if that character is extremely well written regardless of what type of character she is and/or how she looks just comes across as hypocritical because you're still restricting what kind of female character you're trying to create just in a different fashion. Not to mention it's extremely insulting to some real life women who are more interested in being feminine or looking a little sexy because then they're made to look like fools or objects which is ironic given the whole point of wanting more strong female characters is to not label them in insulting tropes or group. Yes, there is a lot of problems with the premise of this discussion. And that really prevents discussing the real problems. Like female characters often not actually having a role in the plot corresponding to their ability and screentime. Like, okay, the MC's girlfriend is that awesome fiery swordswoman with good grades who is obviously meant to be a man's dream. Why aren't we see her actually being useful in battle or in investigation? |
| No worries, manga got you covered.. |
 |
| I believe it is because the lack of source material. I think its not easy to create a story for such circumstance as OP wants. Then i believe there are many sufficient characters already and most of them has been listed. |
| Life isn't as fun and easy as anime. Watch anime to bring that fun!! |
| It honestly depends on the genre and the publishers of the source material (like what studio, what writer, what mangaka or author). Many will stoop to lowest common denominator as many outlets of entertainment tend to do, and shitty fanservice and terribly written, 1-dimensional female characters are one of those things. Unfortunately some creators still believe that anime/manga is a male-dominated medium despite clear as day evidence that there are female fans in equal measure. Sometimes you gotta find the hidden gems that either subvert, reject or openly challenge these notions because otherwise you will be disappointed in most things u see (that goes for outside of anime too). What you mentioned is a huge problem in shonen anime/manga, so if that's what you happen to be watching for the most part, try a different genre, or if u really like shonen anime, ask around for certain titles that are exceptions to this norm (like Soul Eater, FMA, Attack on Titan, Gintama, and even Yu Yu Hakusho) |
| Your literally watching the wrong anime if you think all female protagonists are archetypes. wait this threa looks familiar... wait a second what the heck?! hazerddex said: gezz what anime have you been watching? |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| how dare men use the power of animation to express their fantasies about women this isn't real.. stop giving fictional characters the same standards that only real people should have why is it that people can fantasize in their heads all day about unrealistic portrayals of even real people, but the instant its put into media (especially drawings) then its a problem? these anime characters people like to complain "aren't realistic enough" or w/e aren't supposed to be. they're supposed to be perfect.. perfect does not exist irl, so it HAS TO exist in fiction, and you're basically saying that perfection isn't respectable OP, don't you dare tell me your fantasies fall into even your own definition of "respectable", so why should someone else's???? this is basically some lowkey feminist bullshit.. plz go somewhere with that kaijuguy19 said: Also am I the only one here who feels like there's a huge level of hypocrisy when it comes to how a female character ought to look,act and do in order to be respectable? Like most people demand for female characters to have larger and meaningful roles with more character depth and diversity to them yet those same people also say that unless that female character is not sexualized,not feminine,and not "soft" They cannot be taken seriously and respected. I know I'm using the more extreme examples here but still the fact that female characters of ANY medium let alone anime are starting to be judged harshly by what type of character they are even if that character is extremely well written regardless of what type of character she is and/or how she looks just comes across as hypocritical because you're still restricting what kind of female character you're trying to create just in a different fashion. Not to mention it's extremely insulting to some real life women who are more interested in being feminine or looking a little sexy because then they're made to look like fools or objects which is ironic given the whole point of wanting more strong female characters is to not label them in insulting tropes or group. This isn't meant to be a jab at the original poster. It's just something I've wanted to say for some time. i've mentioned before the whole "why does this need big boobs?" "big boobs aren't necessary" "big boobs aren't realistic" complaints i see from people.. its fucking ridiculous.. i can't imagine how it must be to grow up a woman who takes pride in being lucky enough to develop naturally big jiggly tits only to see people treat it as though she downloaded some kind of cheat code offline or something big boobs are a natural part of the female body that evolved to attract men to mate with them, not some anime invention as people like to act so as you just said.. what about all the woman who enjoy showing off their sex appeal? anime has big boobs because big boobs are super attractive and many women have them.. and japan LOVES to show that off.. now if people want to whine about "unrealistic", well give us a world where no woman has huge boobs |
EcchiGodMamsterAug 20, 2017 1:34 PM
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