JustALEX said: Lyuze said: Lolicon/shotacon hentai causes no direct harm to any individuals so I don't believe it should be illegal. The act of pleasuring oneself to such content is still however morally reprehensible; one is still masturbating to their idealised vision of a child. The idea of fapping to drawings is reprehensible? Because, regardless of what they are idealizing said drawings, that is beyond anyone's control. And to punish it would be equivalent to "thought crime". Perhaps you should learn how to read, because I specifically said I DON'T believe it should be punishable by law. And it is immoral because attraction to children is immoral. Because the desire to have sex with a child is in and of itself immoral, whether or not the child exists is irrelevant to this fact. Perhaps some cannot help the attraction, but they have full control over their own body and the kind of pornography they view, and if they wish to be a morally sound individual then they are fully capable of resisting the urge to view such content. But again, I don't believe it should be punishable by law because the creation and existence of such content causes no direct harm to any other individuals. |
Lyuze said: JustALEX said: The idea of fapping to drawings is reprehensible? Because, regardless of what they are idealizing said drawings, that is beyond anyone's control. And to punish it would be equivalent to "thought crime". Perhaps you should learn how to read, because I specifically said I DON'T believe it should be punishable by law. And it is immoral because attraction to children is immoral. Because the desire to have sex with a child is in and of itself immoral, whether or not the child exists is irrelevant to this fact. Perhaps some cannot help the attraction, but they have full control over their own body and the kind of pornography they view, and if they wish to be a morally sound individual then they are fully capable of resisting the urge to view such content. But again, I don't believe it should be punishable by law because the creation and existence of such content causes no direct harm to any other individuals. Perhaps you shouldn't use words like "reprehensible" and "immoral".... Mostly because you are pre-emptively judging someone based on what they are thinking. This is why I said this would be "thought crimes". Fine, you don't want to punish, but you still want to point fingers and say "hey...liking Lolicon means you have pedophillia tendencies". You don't know that. Think about it like this.... Obviously you wouldn't make playing a game like Rapelay a crime, right? But because someone likes playing Rapelay, that doesn't mean that person actually likes rape and has thoughts about raping. There's such a thing as having fantasies and keeping them 100% as fantasies. I LOVE anime incest....I fap to it all the time. I have NEVER had even an ounce of desire to fuck my real life sister...I find THAT disgusting. I believe Lolicons are similar...they LOVE lolis...FICTIONAL lolis. That does not mean they have any pedophile desires. Maybe some do...no doubt about it, but I believe the majority don't. |
AltoRoark99 said: @Lyuze Pedophilia has nothing to do with morals. The act of having sex with a child is immoral. The sexual urge to have sex with a child is not. Regarding your other quote with this, I really wouldn't call pedophilia a sexual orientation. They're kids. They're supposed to be cute, not sexy. Maybe a teenager would be pretty or handsome but still not sexy to the point where you want to have sex with them. BUT, I do agree with this comment, implying that having pedophilia-like thoughts is not immoral (though I still find it rather disgusting) but the act of committing pedophilia is. Funny because I was talking about this just moments ago. |
AltoRoark99 said: As @Will_Wright rightly pointed out, it's a psychiatric disorder. An attraction to children is immoral, and for as long as one allows that attraction to go unchecked, they will be an immoral person. A pedophile that seeks help for his sexual urges is not an immoral person, because they have taken action towards changing themselves for the better.@Lyuze Pedophilia has nothing to do with morals. The act of having sex with a child is immoral. The sexual urge to have sex with a child is not. |
| @JustALEX if the desire to have sex with a child is a moral absolute, which I believe it is, whether or not the child is fictional has little to no relevance. If one desires to have sex with a child, fictional or not, they are immoral. |
| @Lyuze...if the desire to rape and kill people are moral absolutes...and I believe they are. Then whether or not the raping and killing are real or fictional people has little to no relevance. If one desires to simulate rape and murder...oh I don't know...by playing video games for example... Then ALL those individuals are immoral. I can play this game all day long.... |
Lyuze said: AltoRoark99 said: As @Will_Wright rightly pointed out, it's a psychiatric disorder. An attraction to children is immoral, and for as long as one allows that attraction to go unchecked, they will be an immoral person. A pedophile that seeks help for his sexual urges is not an immoral person, because they have taken action towards changing themselves for the better.@Lyuze Pedophilia has nothing to do with morals. The act of having sex with a child is immoral. The sexual urge to have sex with a child is not. Are psychiatric disorders inherently immoral? I don't believe that the attraction by itself has anything to do with morals. |
| @JustALEX Do you think playing video games is remotely comparable to what a person is aroused over? Or that video game development is the same as drawing something someone is going to get off to? That creating satisfying mechanics and proper context for the players actions is the same as drawing a fictional child for some autistic manchild to jerk off to? Either way I'd argue that the desire to rape and kill innocents is immoral. But I don't think most people play video games to simulate mass slaughtering of innocents, or to simulate raping people. |
| @AltoRoark99 The desire to have sex with children is inherently immoral, and a person that doesn't attempt to correct their disorder is an immoral person. A disorder is undoubtedly a bad thing, it's defined by an inability to function properly in life. The disorder itself isn't bound by morality, but the desires created by said disorder and the actions of the person are. |
| Hentai is absolutely fine in pretty much any country. However watching loli hentai will absolutely make people suspicious of you. |
| As far as I know, hentai in the US is considered art. As far as I know (not 100 percent sure), in the US, hentai is NOT considered pornographic/obscene material. And ALL arts are LEGAL AND CANNOT BE RESTRICTED. A company in the US could have a company policy that says that you have to be over 21 to buy this hentai, while a company right next to it can put the hentai available for all ages. But as far as the law goes, you cannot restrict artistic material. First Amendment stuff. This also applies to the sale of video games in the US. Video games are also considered art. They might put a "you have to be 17 and older to buy this game sign", but that is just a company policy and IT IS NOT A LAW. |
oooo3333Feb 13, 2016 9:49 PM
| @ooo333 That's how it ought to be, however, some judges have ruled that courts can decide some artworks to have no merit. Thus people have been convicted, spent prison sentences, and registered as sex offenders merely for possessing comics. For example, these cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors#United_States Will_Wright said: It's classified as a psychiatric disorder and is defined as a paraphilia in the DSM. Although it is a sexual orientation (by definition of paraphilia), it's definitely not in the same realm as heterosexual, homosexual or pansexual. Paraphilic disorders are listed in the DSM, not paraphilias. There's basically no psychiatric issue with merely having desires that are not acted on, and that do not cause anguish. And if one's morals fall along the lines of "do what you will, so long as you harm none" no moral issue either. |
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MihoWittmann said: @ooo333 That's how it ought to be, however, some judges have ruled that courts can decide some artworks to have no merit. Thus people have been convicted, spent prison sentences, and registered as sex offenders merely for possessing comics. For example, these cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors#United_States Will_Wright said: It's classified as a psychiatric disorder and is defined as a paraphilia in the DSM. Although it is a sexual orientation (by definition of paraphilia), it's definitely not in the same realm as heterosexual, homosexual or pansexual. Paraphilic disorders are listed in the DSM, not paraphilias. There's basically no psychiatric issue with merely having desires that are not acted on, and that do not cause anguish. And if one's morals fall along the lines of "do what you will, so long as you harm none" no moral issue either. Those people arrested were arrested because it was a PAROLE VIOLATION. Meaning, he broke a deal that they had. A parole violation can be something like staying out after 10 pm, but staying out after 10 pm is not a crime. |
| @ooo333 That didn't happen in any of the cases listed on Wikipedia. Most if not all of them had no prior records. |
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Lyuze said: So in other words, wanting to have sex with an adult is moral, correct?@JustALEX if the desire to have sex with a child is a moral absolute, which I believe it is, whether or not the child is fictional has little to no relevance. If one desires to have sex with a child, fictional or not, they are immoral.  A losing battle, sad to say. Her age makes her legitimate and if you argue physique, that must make fucking the Honoka sisters (who are 5 years old) A-Okay. |
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| Hentai is pretty disgusting in general, kinda wish it wasn't though... |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Very interesting discussion (thanks to all those who gave their 2c on the matter)... Well I actually found a government document on the matter and it seems that yes, "lolicon" hentai (basically hentai that could be argued to depict teenagers/kids under the age of 18) is ILLEGAL in the UK; http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/25/contents#pt2-ch2 ^ Nutshelled in this article; http://www.backlash-uk.org.uk/the-law/dangerous-cartoons-act/ Not so related, but an interesting article about the oddities in our pornography laws (especially concerning the 2009/2010 changes); http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/24/extreme_pron_law_live/ More on the case though about the UK guy who was punished for possessing hentai; http://otakujournalist.com/why-every-anime-fan-should-be-worried-about-cartoon-porn-laws/ So far at least, it seems to me that the laws primarily concern the downloading and possessing of hentai. I am not sure where streaming comes into it all though? I did not download/save anything (of any type of hentai) onto a file/document etc however the fact doesn't change that I clicked on a video (of a dubious nature which I did not previously know of before clicking on it) and partially watched some of it. What is worrying about our pornography laws in the UK is; 1. They're really quite complicated (and sometimes even contradictory) and not well specified (as in they seem very open to interpretation in a court of law, especially concerning matters like hentai). HOW do you prove the depicted individual is below the age of 18 when they're only a cartoon? It seems in the case of that guy who got done for hentai, (apparently) some of the images he was found guilty of he was found so purely because the depicted was wearing a school uniform. 2. While I'm sure there must have been some media coverage about the new 2009-2010 laws when they were passed, I certainly don't remember any such coverage and I genuinely didn't know about much of the new laws (which I'm still processing/familiarizing myself with- they concern a lot more than just hentai etc!). It almost seems like bill that was passed rather sneakily. Furthermore this is really concerning (the lack of legal awareness on our current pornography laws) because its become very apparent that based on this discussion here (plus other people I've spoken to about the matter) that most people actually seem to be unaware, confused or only vaguely aware of the actual laws on viewing pornography (pictures or videos etc) in this country. It also makes me feel concerned about how much things could be taken out of context were you to fall foul of the law. For example how many people here have watched anime's like KissXSis (< https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissxsis )? KissXSis is not exactly what you'd argue to be porn/hentai etc (its just a regular anime). I only watched an episode or 2 of it (it wasn't my thing) but its clearly quite a "risqué" anime (which has hordes of fans of all ages). If the risqué moments could be argued to be pornography (and they could!) then under UK laws they could also be argued to be illegal (and you could look very bad if you had saved lots of KissXSis risqué screenshots, GIF's or doujinshi etc on your computer). Personally I am done with hentai- IMO its quite simply not worth the risk. The risk is probably very minimal but that's only at the moment. If our society goes down some path where pornography preferences get hounded a lot by the general public (and lets face it, if you look at lolicon hentai its not going to paint a great image of your character etc- good luck getting majority public support with that!), then countless people could be very easily incriminated on their internet history of pornography viewing (much more so if they've ever saved material etc on their computer etc). Perhaps you say I am paranoid. But I would rather be safe than sorry. And the fact is that out of the minimal amount of hentai I've viewed in my internet history, the overwhelming majority of it wasn't actually to my taste/preferences anyway (whether you understand Japanese or not, you don't really know what you're getting with hentai until you actually watch it). Nothing is ever truly deleted off the internet either (your viewing history etc). (^ In more words;) You have to be careful about following the crowd. What led to the banking crisis and MP's expenses scandals etc was a culture of stupidity where even though people knew what they were doing was wrong, because "everyone was doing it" people continued to do what they did. But a law doesn't suddenly not become the law just because loads of people are breaking it anymore than a lie becomes a truth just because loads of people believe in it. There has been a sly but distinct and palpable erosion of rights in UK society. While still a liberal society we are not quite as liberal as we once were. And while there are things you may be able to get away with right now, you may not be able to get away with them in the future (and you shouldn't let the current nonchalent air of the times concerning certain matters lead you into a false sense of security). Do you want to risk your past actions haunting you in the future? If you're a UK citizen and have watched, downloaded or saved etc hentai/cartoons which depict anything other than adults engaged in "normal" (non-violent etc) sexual intercourse or sexual play etc, then my advice is to have a good long think about what you've been doing and seriously avoid viewing (especially downloading etc) such sorts of hentai/cartoons from now on (I'm not judging you but our laws certainly do!). |
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Tokis86 said: I'm surprised this stuff is so, so...Commonplace? That such messed-up hentai is so easy to chance upon? Basically, one of the strong points of animation is that you can easily make things that are hard to make with real actors. Spaceship battles, magic, elementary schoolchildren lifting battleships... all of that is easy to make and well-used in anime. For hentai (anime porn) that means that a lot of hentai depicts quite unusual stuff. It usually starts with consensual sex between teenagers in high school (that's as mainstream as it gets, but still probably illegal in a lot of places), and there doesn't seem to be an end, only stuff you don't dare to look at. The most common stuff you're likely to encounter involves some of rape, monsters and schoolgirls. Rape of schoolgirls by tentacled monsters is particularly iconic. Tokis86 said: 3. If I have incriminated myself by clicking on it (or just viewing anything on the site as a whole), I'd rather "un-criminate" myself if that's possible by doing the right thing (reporting the site or particular hentai etc) as the last thing I'd ever want is to get into trouble for being unwittingly involved in something like that. 4. I'm someone who tends to over-think matters and worry a lot and so part of the concern you're seeing here is probably just some of my personality coming through. I did this thread as I don't know anything much on matters like this (and felt like I needed some advice & guidance/reassurance etc). I don't know if I'm worried about nothing or whether it would be wiser to do something about the matter at hand (like report it somehow). As a general rule, you can assume any laws against pornography and preventing your access to information are made and enforced by Nazi Commies. By reporting anything to them, you become a Nazi Commie collaborator and a traitor to your people. Don't do it. We (the people) might not find you, we might forgive you, but it's a bad thing to do anyway. Never report anything that does not go against your personal beliefs. Read 1984 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four ) and Fahrenheit 451 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451 ) for additional information on why your government is evil and you should resist it. Tokis86 said: Z-Dante: Maybe the girl was just made to look younger than she was then? I suppose it is hard to gauge the supposed age of an anime characters sometimes when so many of them are made to look so young. It didn't explicitly say her age (not at least as far as I am aware) but she certainly was made to look like a kid. I don't know what the name of the hentai was (TBH I don't really want to go back looking for it though to find out etc), A lot of hentai released in the West has a disclaimer that everybody in it is at least 18 years old. That disclaimer is obviously a lie, most hentai is about people who are younger than that. People are just making fun of it. |
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