Kuma said: late night obviously not popular maisntream, but there is some that can get enough common attention like evangelion, suzumiya haruhi, bebop (i don't know from where this misunderstood starting, but bebop is mainstream in japan! their BD is breaking 100K average back then), recently we got love live and osomatsu-san (the old osomatsu aired in normal airing time). correct me if i am wrong thou No you're not wrong from my perspective. So Cowboy Bebop is definitely mainstream in Japan like in the US. Is Haruhi Suzumiya that popular in Japan? Is she a household name in Japan amongst non-otaku audiences? |
mdo7 said: their hardcore fanbase always wil be otaku, but they got common people atention too, but not as being hardcore fans and drag them as anime fans.. they are just picking attention more than your average anime fans, that's all.. dispereance can't get to top sells solely by otaku and fanbase support...Kuma said: late night obviously not popular maisntream, but there is some that can get enough common attention like evangelion, suzumiya haruhi, bebop (i don't know from where this misunderstood starting, but bebop is mainstream in japan! their BD is breaking 100K average back then), recently we got love live and osomatsu-san (the old osomatsu aired in normal airing time). correct me if i am wrong thou No you're not wrong from my perspective. So Cowboy Bebop is definitely mainstream in Japan like in the US. Is Haruhi Suzumiya that popular in Japan? Is she a household name in Japan amongst non-otaku audiences? and yes, bebop in japan is as mainstream as in us, but don't expect everybody know it.. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
In the US, a lot of people that aren't even anime fans will heard of Cowboy Bebop (it got a lot of awards and recognition in the US). I take it's not the same in Japan even if majority of non-otaku and average casual Japanese might or might not know about it. |
mdo7 said: In the US, a lot of people that aren't even anime fans will heard of Cowboy Bebop (it got a lot of awards and recognition in the US). I take it's not the same in Japan even if majority of non-otaku and average casual Japanese might or might not know about it. Kuma said: their hardcore fanbase always wil be otaku, but they got common people atention too, but not as being hardcore fans and drag them being anime fans.. they are just picking attention more than your average anime fans, that's all.. but don't expect everybody know it.. dude, exactly... i don't know cowboy bebop got pokemon/big 3 lVl of popularity in US in term of popularity... to be more simple, your average late night shows > your average normal airing shows > cowboy bebop > normal airing very popular shows (one piece, sazae-san, pokemon, ETC) |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| does anyone know if JoJo is widely accepted/well liked in Japan as well? curious. it seems the fanbase is strong, here in the west at least. & of course being a niche means it isn't aimed at large crowds, but maybe there's some prejudice happening over there? maybe they need to deconstruct their views on anime. it won't help they generalize the image of a fan being the hikikomori obsessed type like that's a rule. I don't believe all "otakus" are like that in Japan, but since they keep a low profile due to the prejudice, it's hard to know it better. |
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neko_cola said: dude, JOJO is ever part of wsj... one of longest sueisha title right before kochikame... i am pretty sure they will not last that long without solid fanbases..does anyone know if JoJo is widely accepted/well liked in Japan as well? curious. it seems the fanbase is strong, here in the west at least. & of course being a niche means it isn't aimed at large crowds, but maybe there's some prejudice happening over there? maybe they need to deconstruct their views on anime. it won't help they generalize the image of a fan being the hikikomori obsessed type like that's a rule. I don't believe all "otakus" are like that in Japan, but since they keep a low profile due to the prejudice, it's hard to know it better. they currently sold around 300K+ each volume which already great even before counting their volume.. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| I'm not a dude, watch your language :) Great to know that, I even know they sell like crazy, was talking about a mainstream point of view, less niche-oriented way. |
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| oh boy.. not this shit again.. it's not like anime isnt mainstream here in America either, tf are you talking about |
 Freddy Nicholas said: have control, be yourself, god is dead |
Malarkey said: oh boy.. not this shit again.. it's not like anime isnt mainstream here in America either, tf are you talking about I like how I saw a thread on r/anime the other day that literally said anime was more popular in America than in Japan because he was that much of an autist to literally expect all of Japan to like anime and only the stuff that MAL mass watches. Look at Tokyo Oh gee, I wonder why New York or Los Angeles hasn't done this yet? Also Comiket has well over 600,000 attendees total yearwide, Anime Expo doesn't even break fucking 100,000 Give me a fucking break it's more mainstream outside Japan |
AqutanJun 6, 2016 11:48 PM
The_Nico said: dw hes probably 7; either that or hes a lonely middleaged man who blows all his money on CS:GO skins and buying anime figurines in bulkMalarkey said: oh boy.. not this shit again.. it's not like anime isnt mainstream here in America either, tf are you talking about I like how I saw a thread on r/anime the other day that literally said anime was more popular in America than in Japan because he was that much of an autist to literally expect all of Japan to like anime and only the stuff that MAL mass watches. Look at Tokyo Oh gee, I wonder why New York or Los Angeles hasn't done this yet? |
Freddy Nicholas said: have control, be yourself, god is dead |
| Umm, anime is popular(somewhat) in america, would one assume it's popular to some degree in it's birth country. But here's interesting answers about just how popular it is. https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/3qjll9/just_how_popular_is_anime_in_japan/cwfrldt https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/3qjll9/just_how_popular_is_anime_in_japan/cwfs1lp https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/3qjll9/just_how_popular_is_anime_in_japan/cwfzwce umashikaneko said: This is public awareness ranking for 15-79 not exactly anime only though.It literally says character awareness poll of manga anime character edition by Nihon research company.To be fair,anything included in this list means it is at least boderline mainstream. I recognize almost every single one of these, in they say I don't know anime PSSSH. |
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| interesting list you posted, @umashikaneko! and most of those titles are no surprise to be well known by the masses, big trademarks. |
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umashikaneko said: neko_cola said: does anyone know if JoJo is widely accepted/well liked in Japan as well? curious. it seems the fanbase is strong, here in the west at least. . This is public awareness ratio for 15-79 not exactly anime only though.It literally says character awareness poll of manga anime character edition by Nihon research company.To be fair,anything included in this list means it is at least boderline mainstream. 98-Sazaesan 98-Doraemon 95-Anpanman 95-Chibimaruko Chan 93-Gegege no Kitaro(Hakaba Kitaro) 92-Crayon Shinchan 92-Astro Boy 90-My neighbor Totoro 86-Detective Conan 83-Dragon Ball 83-Kiki's delivery service 82-Kamen Rider 81-Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind 81-Ultraman 77-Fist of the North Star 73-Mobile suit Gundam 69-Yokai Watch 65-Sailor Moon 61-One Piece 58-Naruto 53-Neon Genesis Evangelion 52-PreCure 52-Shingeki no Kyojin 47-Sentai series 40-Paper Rabbit Rope 36-JoJo's Bizarre Adventure 22-Aikatsu 17-YowaPeda 16-Natsume Yujintyou http://www.nrc.co.jp/report/pdf/160428.pdf Thanks for the number. Really, 53 for Evangelion? I thought that one was higher. Thought it would have been more on the sailor moon level, oh well. |
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Well anime isn't even mainstream in Japan. If anime was mainstream in the US and worldwide, then Japanese language classes in US colleges/universities wouldn't suffer a enrollment decline recently, Japanese classes in US colleges/universities decline by 7.8% ashfrliebert said: Umm, anime is popular(somewhat) in america, would one assume it's popular to some degree in it's birth country. But here's interesting answers about just how popular it is. https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/3qjll9/just_how_popular_is_anime_in_japan/cwfrldt https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/3qjll9/just_how_popular_is_anime_in_japan/cwfs1lp https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/3qjll9/just_how_popular_is_anime_in_japan/cwfzwce Thank you for the link, that's very useful. umashikaneko said: This is public awareness ratio for 15-79 not exactly anime only though. It literally says character awareness poll of manga anime character edition by Nihon research company.To be fair,anything included in this list means it is at least boderline mainstream. http://www.nrc.co.jp/report/pdf/160428.pdf Thank you for that list, wow that is really surprising. |
mdo7Jun 7, 2016 3:42 PM
mdo7 said: keragamming said: I think @bigivelfhq's would have the best answer for those question. I summon thee. Bebop is definitely not mainstream in Japan though. I better hope this @bigivelfhq dude can be able to answer if any of the title are mainstream or not. What kind of experience this dude has when it comes to anime and how does he know which is anime or not? I'm just an anime fan that likes to gather and look for some hard data. Nothing more and nothing else. In my opinion and looking at the things that I know, I would say that anime is pretty much mainstream in Japan. Japanese frequently and in any possible way are advertised to anime. And for what I heard is not strange that a random person tunes for 1 or 2 anime series. Just like is normal for a random person to watch at least 1 or 2 series, and here in Portugal to watch at least 1 "Novela". Just like other mainstream media not everybody watches, a good quantity even, but the quantity that does is really huge. Also the awareness of it is pretty huge. Anime series right now can be divided in 2 big sections(the Answerman response seems to just have divided in one more to differentiate between the "mature" and the "kid/immature" stuff. Something that I think is stupid. And he placed series wrongly, strongly showing is bias in certain series), the family/Kid anime and the Young adults(people like to call it Otaku, but Otaku aren't the only fans nor target audience). The family stuff is the equivalent to the Disney and Dreamworks animated movies, that are highly mainstream and popular. They aren't in as short of a quantity as people like to think. Sometime ago I made an article at arlongpark talking about long running anime, that most is family/kid. Where I show that the number of timeslots for long running and short running is almost exactly the same. The big difference that we notice is that while the long running takes more space, minimum of 1 year, the short running takes way less, minimum of 1 season, and it seems like there are a ton more short running content, but that isn't true. Here the article: http://www.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=42328 The Young adult stuff, is equivalent to the rebel teenagers subcultures. Like emo and punk and those things. The people in them are really passionate, but the material is directed to them in such a degree and is so exotic that is hard, or even impossible, to attract other groups. In conclusion is a pretty niche and cult section of the market. MAL mainly is interested in the second section, the niche one. And that is why they don't want to official show the weekly Top 10 TV ratings, because all the series are from the family section of the industry. About the series you talked about and want to know if it is mainstream: - Cowboy Bebop -> I don't think it was mainstream in Japan, but it certainly it was highly popular. Was Cowboy Bebop mainstream in US? Aren't you talking of "mainstream inside the anime fandom niche?" - Ghost in the Shell -> I heard an article by answerman about the series not being the huge thing in japan as people think it was here in the west. It also wasn't as popular here in the west as people might think. It what I would cal of a cult following series. Its fans love it so much, but that group of fans isn't wide enough. I believe that just like Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell is "mainstream inside the anime fandom niche?" The info we have is that the movie earned Internationally 2,287,714 dollars. That, counting the exchange rate of that time(1995), is 233,209,565 yen. That same year a 3-part-series Movie(Dragon Ball z, Slam Dunk and Marmalade Boy) did 1,270,000,000 yen, in other words, 12,458,308 dollars just in Japan(Note how even by dividing the earnings by 3, it still is around the double of all Ghost in the Shell earnings). - Sword Art Online nor Idolmaster are mainstream titles in Japan. They are also like Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop. Love Live! though is an example of a late night otaku(idol lovers) series that was able to reach mainstream. Still its fanbase is rather short compared with other mainstream franchises. But its lack in number is earned in its fans enthusiasm. |
| Going from what I was told, people in Japan view anime no different than people in the US view cartoons. They view it as stuff for kids or the nerdy/geeky adults. Most adults in the US don't really watch cartoons and I was told the same for most anime too. I would imagine parents may watch Doraemon with their 9 year old, but not for themselves. From what I was also told that the late night anime titles are market towards the Otaku and most causal people in Japan don't stay up late to watch TV. I think it's the same over in the US since most causal people probably don't watch late night cartoons like Rick & Morty, Archer, Mike Tyson Mysteries and Aqua Teen Hunger Force. MattKitsune96 said: Noe days being called a Geek or Nerd or even Otaku in America can seem cool or at the very least most people don't think much about it, 20 years ago you would hear about geeks and nerds getting bullied and people not liking them and stuff. Well in Japan Otaku basically means geek and over there people will apparently still look down on them and make fun of them. You still have people that view adults that still like comics, cartoons and video games down to people. If you work at a high paying job where a lot of well educated people that their 30's and if you said that you watch shows that are animated you're scoffed at. They just watch sports, the news or TV shows like The Wire, Game of Thrones, etc. People still view animation for children sadly. I notice the only acceptable pop-culture stuff for casual adults are Star Wars, Star Trek, or DC and Marvel superheroes. That and the Fox animated shows like Simpsons, Family Guy and American Dad. |
bigivelfhq said: Anime series right now can be divided in 2 big sections(the Answerman response seems to just have divided in one more to differentiate between the "mature" and the "kid/immature" stuff. Something that I think is stupid. And he placed series wrongly, strongly showing is bias in certain series), the family/Kid anime and the Young adults(people like to call it Otaku, but Otaku aren't the only fans nor target audience). About Answerman, The writer for Answerman is Justin Servakis who has many year experience in the anime industry. He has worked in the anime industry much longer then anybody else. I take his word seriously because he has many years in the industry. bigivelfhq said: About the series you talked about and want to know if it is mainstream: - Cowboy Bebop -> I don't think it was mainstream in Japan, but it certainly it was highly popular. Was Cowboy Bebop mainstream in US? Aren't you talking of "mainstream inside the anime fandom niche?" Nope, a lot of non-anime fans even know what Cowboy Bebop is since it's broadcast on US TV. Cowboy Bebop got a lot of critical acclaim from mainstream US media. I mean on IMDB's top 250 show in the US, Cowboy Bebop is on #29. One article stated Cowboy Bebop help many people become anime fans today. - Ghost in the Shell -> I heard an article by answerman about the series not being the huge thing in japan as people think it was here in the west. It also wasn't as popular here in the west as people might think. It what I would cal of a cult following series. Its fans love it so much, but that group of fans isn't wide enough. I believe that just like Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell is "mainstream inside the anime fandom niche?" Well on the same IMDB list of hit TV show in the US, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex made it on that list (I think it was #129). So I'm not sure how significant that is, but I do know non-anime fans that know what that show is. - Sword Art Online nor Idolmaster are mainstream titles in Japan. They are also like Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop. Love Live! though is an example of a late night otaku(idol lovers) series that was able to reach mainstream. Still its fanbase is rather short compared with other mainstream franchises. But its lack in number is earned in its fans enthusiasm. Wait, so are you saying Sword Art Online and Idolmaster are mainstream in Japan, I'm confused when you said that? So are you saying both of them are well-known amongst non-otaku audiences in Japan? Please clarify that for me. |
Hellspawn28 said: Going from what I was told, people in Japan view anime no different than people in the US view cartoons. They view it as stuff for kids or the nerdy/geeky adults. Most adults in the US don't really watch cartoons and I was told the same for most anime too. I would imagine parents may watch Doraemon with their 9 year old, but not for themselves. From what I was also told that the late night anime titles are market towards the Otaku and most causal people in Japan don't stay up late to watch TV. I think it's the same over in the US since most causal people probably don't watch late night cartoons like Rick & Morty, Archer, Mike Tyson Mysteries and Aqua Teen Hunger Force. MattKitsune96 said: Noe days being called a Geek or Nerd or even Otaku in America can seem cool or at the very least most people don't think much about it, 20 years ago you would hear about geeks and nerds getting bullied and people not liking them and stuff. Well in Japan Otaku basically means geek and over there people will apparently still look down on them and make fun of them. You still have people that view adults that still like comics, cartoons and video games down to people. If you work at a high paying job where a lot of well educated people that their 30's and if you said that you watch shows that are animated you're scoffed at. They just watch sports, the news or TV shows like The Wire, Game of Thrones, etc. People still view animation for children sadly. I notice the only acceptable pop-culture stuff for casual adults are Star Wars, Star Trek, or DC and Marvel superheroes. That and the Fox animated shows like Simpsons, Family Guy and American Dad. Yeah, I still don't get how people find stuff full of immature jokes like Family Guy okay for adults to watch but look down on anime which has stuff like Ghost in the Shell. I guess they have only seen kids anime and think it's all for kids or something. |
| I dont think anime is as main stream as manga there |
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MattKitsune96 said: Yeah, I still don't get how people find stuff full of immature jokes like Family Guy okay for adults to watch but look down on anime which has stuff like Ghost in the Shell. I guess they have only seen kids anime and think it's all for kids or something. Well are we sure the people that look down on anime are not racist or harbor anti-Japanese sentiment? |
| @mdo7 I'm saying that Sword Art Online isn't, and idolm@ster isn't too. How is a very specific group of people like "high paying job where a lot of well educated people that their 30's" as any say if something is mainstream or not? This specific group is even a niche! This same guys you're talking do the exact same thing to 'novelas' in Brazil, Portugal and certainly majority of other countries that like them, only in this case it would be for housewives. It doesn't matter what those people think though, 'novelas' are still mainstream. It also seems like for people here, something being for kids automatically eliminates the possibility of it being mainstream. Note that the demographic or what specific groups think has nothing to do if something is mainstream or not. The "mature" and seen by "mature" people has nothing to do with mainstream. |
I don't want go off topic, but I want to discuss something via profile comments. This is where things get a bit more complicated and may get off topic here but bare with me. |
Geezus, the author being a guest tour de france commentator and in all those bicycle magazines sure did their job :O |
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umashikaneko said: This is public awareness ratio for 15-79 not exactly anime only though.It literally says character awareness poll of manga anime character edition by Nihon research company.To be fair,anything included in this list means it is at least boderline mainstream. http://www.nrc.co.jp/report/pdf/160428.pdf oh that's very intresting, kinda wanted to see where Pokémon would be in the list But they included Pokémon in their video game poll and it scored 86 (which was the highest and actually even higer than super mario bros :o) |
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| I lived and worked there but I honestly don't know. I got asked a few times if I like anime but I guess that is a common question for foreigners. However, they do have lots of anime on TV, which we don't have in Europe so I guess judging by that anime could be considered mainstream. |
anobaka said: I lived and worked there but I honestly don't know. I got asked a few times if I like anime but I guess that is a common question for foreigners. However, they do have lots of anime on TV, which we don't have in Europe so I guess judging by that anime could be considered mainstream. Then I recommend my post (that's the one I revive the thread), it might surprised you. |
| @mdo7 IMDB's score is a audience score not a critic score like rotten tomatoes or metacritic. So about US critics opinion you can't use IMDB's. Just to clear that up :) My question if anime is not popular in Japan why they do so many? I get that they have the income of the merch but doing an anime must be expensive and if you have to pay to get them on air more expensive will be. So why making a lot? You can save more just by doing some and because of the fewer anime on air the probability of selling more merch of the anime thatt stays on air becomes bigger. And if the motive for doing anime is to sell merch why doing SoL or not action oriented anime? Because, in my opinion, it's harder to sell SoL or Drama anime merch |
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SoulMoon said: @mdo7 IMDB's score is a audience score not a critic score like rotten tomatoes or metacritic. So about US critics opinion you can't use IMDB's. Just to clear that up :) Well I have other articles to back this up. Also if I can't use IMDB, then what do I use then? SoulMoon said: My question if anime is not popular in Japan why they do so many? I get that they have the income of the merch but doing an anime must be expensive and if you have to pay to get them on air more expensive will be. So why making a lot? You can save more just by doing some and because of the fewer anime on air the probability of selling more merch of the anime thatt stays on air becomes bigger. And if the motive for doing anime is to sell merch why doing SoL or not action oriented anime? Because, in my opinion, it's harder to sell SoL or Drama anime merch Yes, in Japan a lot of stuff are overpriced. I'm kinda surprised most of the anime studio didn't think about making more mainstream titles to target otaku audiences. I mean Family Guy, and South Park are mainstream and yet it has a lot of diverse fanbases that aren't limited to animation fans. If anime was more mainstream like Korean dramas, then at least anime and animation in general won't be look down upon by your average casual people. |
Well can you give me links where Rottern Tomatoes and Metacritic made anime a big deal like a top 50 mainstream anime list or something like that? |
The_Nico said: @mdo7 this argument again? Pass, it's still high as it is and taught at more universities than any other Asian language. But that's off-topic. Well it matters, if anime is popular then Japanese language classes in US college/universities would've jumped up not down unlike Korean pop culture. |
| Nowadays high school students in Japan have to know about anime to catch up with classmates in conversation. Some people said that in 2ch. |
mdo7 said: Nope, a lot of non-anime fans even know what Cowboy Bebop is since it's broadcast on US TV. Cowboy Bebop got a lot of critical acclaim from mainstream US media. I mean on IMDB's top 250 show in the US, Cowboy Bebop is on #29. One article stated Cowboy Bebop help many people become anime fans today. Not sure if IMDB users can be used as a reliable source for the US popularity in it's entirety. SoulMoon said: If anime was more mainstream like Korean dramas, then at least anime and animation in general won't be look down upon by your average casual people. I heard like literally 0 about this "anime is heavily looked down by Japan" stuff. as much as just "obsessive anime fans", or "otaku" or, which seems to be an alternative for "nerds". In which case, seems no different from anywhere else. This discussion leans to either "anime is heavily looked down by Japanese people" or "Anime is viewed sophisticatedly in Japan unlike America" so I'm not sure I should trust either. Maybe people just have hobbies and some people just don't? |
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Ryo_Misaki said: Nowadays high school students in Japan have to know about anime to catch up with classmates in conversation. Some people said that in 2ch. I think you're talking about Universities in Japan doing this. ashfrliebert said: I heard like literally 0 about this "anime is heavily looked down by Japan" stuff. as much as just "obsessive anime fans", or "otaku" or, which seems to be an alternative for "nerds". In which case, seems no different from anywhere else. This discussion leans to either "anime is heavily looked down by Japanese people" or "Anime is viewed sophisticatedly in Japan unlike America" so I'm not sure I should trust either. Maybe people just have hobbies and some people just don't? Well anime doesn't have a lot of good reputation in Japan. I mean you never heard of Tsutomu Miyazaki aka the otaku killer. I think you need to read these: What do Japanese people think of when they hear the word “otaku?” Comic Book Legal Defense Fund article: Otaku: Japan’s Favorite Scapegoat — and Tourist Draw and I'll quote this: CBLDF said: The word otaku was first used to describe anime and manga enthusiasts in the early 1980s (Galbraith 214), but Japan’s real national conversation about the subculture began inauspiciously in 1989 with the so-called “Otaku Murderer.” Tsutomu Miyazaki mutilated, molested, killed, and ate parts of four girls who were between the ages of four and seven. When it was discovered that he owned almost 6,000 videos including some anime and hentai, a media frenzy erupted and all otaku were suddenly suspect. Around the same time, otaku were actually being targeted by muggers calling themselves otaku hunters, who “gambled that it does not take much to part a spotty-faced comic buyer from his cash” (McLeod). In response, some otaku began to carry unlicensed knives — a criminal offense in Japan — and police began profiling, questioning, and sometimes searching the belongings of people they thought could be otaku. Between the stifling of free expression, the muggings, and the profiling, Akihabara lost much of its former luster and a survey showed that only 30 percent of current residents actually identified as otaku — “the same number as Japanese tourists coming to the neighborhood to observe otaku” So that back up why otaku in Japan keep their hobbies quietly and in secret. Washington post article from 2005: In Tokyo, a Ghetto of Geeks I'll quote from that article: "We have been discriminated against for being different, but now we have come together and turned this neighborhood into a place of our own," said Yamagata, nursing his tea as he sat with a portly computer technician friend at Akihabara's Cos-Cha, one of a dozen "maid cafes" in the neighborhood. Here, the waitresses' uniforms are inspired by the French maid-meets-Pokemon outfits of adult manga. At other cafes, waitresses greet patrons at the door with a curtsy and the words "Welcome home, master." So yeah, if otaku are considered stigmatized that may explain why a lot of anime aren't mainstream in Japan. |
mdo7 said: Well anime doesn't have a lot of good reputation in Japan. I mean you never heard of Tsutomu Miyazaki aka the otaku killer. I think you need to read these: What do Japanese people think of when they hear the word “otaku?” Comic Book Legal Defense Fund article: Otaku: Japan’s Favorite Scapegoat — and Tourist Draw Fair enough, seems like I'm actually wrong on one of the things I said, but here's what I found. http://www.someanithing.com/4330 https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130508045158AAHsllI http://animereviews.co/animepov/believe-it-anime-sells-more-copies-in-the-u-s-than-it-does-in-japan/ https://gemr.com/blog/how-attack-on-titan-saved-the-anime-market/ So, selling 500 millions would usually be compared lower than average, but that doesn't seem like a niche hobby. Too many anime come out for me to ever really believe it's some sorta of niche hobby, if not as popular as many in the west would expect. |
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ashfrliebert said: Fair enough, seems like I'm actually wrong on one of the things I said, but here's what I found. http://www.someanithing.com/4330 https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130508045158AAHsllI http://animereviews.co/animepov/believe-it-anime-sells-more-copies-in-the-u-s-than-it-does-in-japan/ https://gemr.com/blog/how-attack-on-titan-saved-the-anime-market/ So, selling 500 millions would usually be compared lower than average, but that doesn't seem like a niche hobby. Too many anime come out for me to ever really believe it's some sorta of niche hobby, if not as popular as many in the west would expect. Well I don't know when you became a anime fan, but if you are a newbie take whatever I mention please keep it as knowledge, also I recommend reading my post (that's the one I revived the thread). I'll say this regarding your links. For every mainstream titles and Attack on Titan, there's going to be 1,000 or more niche title that aren't a household name in Japan. That's the lesson every anime fans should know. |
Kuma said: rather than focusing anime as the whole, it will be more simple to devided by 2, late night slot and normal airing slot... late night obviously not popular maisntream, but there is some that can get enough common attention like evangelion, suzumiya haruhi, bebop (i don't know from where this misunderstood starting, but bebop is mainstream in japan! their BD is breaking 100K average back then), recently we got love live and osomatsu-san (the old osomatsu aired in normal airing time). as for normal airing time, is just like normal cartoon like every country... some of them also targetted more to family rather than children.. as for manga, the way we see it is different but pretty much same in the end... @umashikaneko saying that it can be look by magazine is normal printing or niche targetted printing... and yes, manga is more popular than anime... correct me if i am wrong thou Bebop is not mainstream in Japan, selling 100k doesn't mean anything. also can you show proof that it sold over 100k in bd. I dont remember seeing bebop in the top 10 best selling BD of all time. |
| Not even close to being mainstream. More looked down upon in Japan then it ever will elsewhere |
davinci12Jun 8, 2016 11:48 AM
Malarkey said: oh boy.. not this shit again.. it's not like anime isnt mainstream here in America either, tf are you talking about thank you. Also, people seem to think of anime as this obscure "nerdy" niche, but in Japan it's simply an entertainment medium. Just like our cartoons in the west are an entertainment medium for us, as are many other things. So when people try to say that anime isn't popular in Japan, it just seems most of those people have certain type of anime in mind and don't realize there are different areas and communities within Japan. Anime is too broad in Japan to simply say whether or not it's mainstream, because it varies from series to series. Also you don't really see people in the US try to figure out if cartoons are mainstream, because it would be a question of if a series is mainstream instead of asking if an entertainment medium is mainstream. |
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mdo7 said: ashfrliebert said: Fair enough, seems like I'm actually wrong on one of the things I said, but here's what I found. http://www.someanithing.com/4330 https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130508045158AAHsllI http://animereviews.co/animepov/believe-it-anime-sells-more-copies-in-the-u-s-than-it-does-in-japan/ https://gemr.com/blog/how-attack-on-titan-saved-the-anime-market/ So, selling 500 millions would usually be compared lower than average, but that doesn't seem like a niche hobby. Too many anime come out for me to ever really believe it's some sorta of niche hobby, if not as popular as many in the west would expect. Well I don't know when you became a anime fan, but if you are a newbie take whatever I mention please keep it as knowledge, also I recommend reading my post (that's the one I revived the thread). I'll say this regarding your links. For every mainstream titles and Attack on Titan, there's going to be 1,000 or more niche title that aren't a household name in Japan. That's the lesson every anime fans should know. What? For every popular music album, there's going to be 3,000,000 or more niche titles that aren't made by household names in the west. That doesn't make modern music unpopular, if there's mainstream titles, there's popularity. It's my understanding that popular titles, the second category, Naruto, OP, Kenshin, YYH, DBZ, Kochikame and what have you are popular and recognizable to a degree. I wasn't saying that random anime seasonal number 120 that MAL thinks is actually the best, the third category, was blowing up the market. But as long as there's not like 4 popular anime, I don't understand why we're calling it a niche thing. (and yes, music is obviously 3000x times more popular than anime, but that's besides the point) While you can find Naruto and Gundam and One Piece stuff everywhere in Japan It is, by and large, a subculture, mostly tucked out of the way of public view. It is not mainstream. It is a subculture, and in that sense, it's very similar to how anime is in the United States And this is all I'm talking about, Naruto is to a degree popular in america and Dragon is to a (way bigger) degree popular in America. edit: and okay I knew Ghibili films before I even knew any anime besides DBZ |
ashfrliebertJun 8, 2016 5:29 PM
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ashfrliebert said: What? For every popular music album, there's going to be 3,000,000 or more niche titles that aren't made by household names in the west. That doesn't make modern music unpopular, if there's mainstream titles, there's popularity. Not to go off topic but I'm going to use K-pop as an example. This genre is becoming more well-known and popular in the US and the west and yet it's not in English and it doesn't get the same type of publicity in the US that Kanye West, Ariana Grande, Adele would get. I mean it was able to get it's own Billboard column, and it even got it own genre on US Itunes. Several famous K-pop idols that aren't a household name in the US is able to get a big sizeable fanbases that no indie artists nor J-pop was able to get. So could you explain how K-pop despite not being mainstream in the US was able to get more fanbases in the US then any indie artists or J-pop one? KonaKoffee said: So when people try to say that anime isn't popular in Japan, it just seems most of those people have certain type of anime in mind and don't realize there are different areas and communities within Japan. Anime is too broad in Japan to simply say whether or not it's mainstream, because it varies from series to series. Also you don't really see people in the US try to figure out if cartoons are mainstream, because it would be a question of if a series is mainstream instead of asking if an entertainment medium is mainstream. Well I'm not sure if you read my post with the Answerman article with it regarding how mainstream is anime. |
mdo7 said: KonaKoffee said: So when people try to say that anime isn't popular in Japan, it just seems most of those people have certain type of anime in mind and don't realize there are different areas and communities within Japan. Anime is too broad in Japan to simply say whether or not it's mainstream, because it varies from series to series. Also you don't really see people in the US try to figure out if cartoons are mainstream, because it would be a question of if a series is mainstream instead of asking if an entertainment medium is mainstream. Well I'm not sure if you read my post with the Answerman article with it regarding how mainstream is anime. You realize that your summary there is mainly talking about the culture that revolves around anime and what us westerners deem to be familiar to us? It's mainly focusing on Otakus and not casual anime fans or the fact that anime is simply just their animated medium of entertainment. Anime is an entertainment medium, so trying to scale its "popularity" is similar to trying to scale the popularity of our cartoon medium. Even in your sentence "the vast majority of anime merchandise can only be found in places like Akihabara, or Maiden Road in Ikebukuro or Nakano Broadway or Den Den Town in Osaka. ", these were the places I was talking about when I said that anime is popular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara you can just simply click the link and see it for yourself. Sure, it's not seen in every part of Japan, but it's not as if we have streets dedicated to cartoon series or comic book characters. So even if most citizens aren't avid anime fans, there are still small sections of Japan where video game and anime culture is highly influential. Also, I never stated anything regarding anime being mainstream, I simply stated that anime is what they call their animated films and shows. trying to call it "mainstream" has no real meaning because it is simply an entertainment medium like any other. There are particular series that are popular among anime watchers in Japan, but I never stated that it was a clear indicator that meant anime is popular as a whole. Also, everyone should be aware that the whole "otaku, kawaii desu" stuff isn't widely praised in Japan as much as some anime fans try to praise that subculture, like how some American fans aren't exactly looked up to for being nerds. There is still a large part of the US where we have plenty of nerds though, just like Japan has anime fans scattered throughout the country. Regardless though, anime is still enjoyed by many people in japan and not all of them are part of the "otaku" subculture. Just like our comic book heroes are widely loved and praised here, but not all superhero fans are comic book nerds. Of course this isn't saying that anime is more common to watch in japan than their other mediums of entertainment. But when people try to make it seem as if anime fans are somehow shunned by society isn't exactly true. Maybe the hardcore "otaku" fans are looked down upon, but not people who casually enjoy a few anime series. |
KonaKoffeeJun 8, 2016 7:05 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0 This genre is becoming more well-known and popular in the US and the west and yet it's not in English and it doesn't get the same type of publicity in the US that Kanye West, Ariana Grande, Adele would get. I mean it was able to get it's own Billboard column, and it even got it own genre on US Itunes. Several famous K-pop idols that aren't a household name in the US is able to get a big sizeable fanbases that no indie artists nor J-pop was able to get. So could you explain how K-pop despite not being mainstream in the US was able to get more fanbases in the US then any indie artists or J-pop one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiBYM6g8Tck The reworked "Macarena (Bayside Boys remix)" spent 14 weeks at No. 1 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 singles chart,[5] one of the longest runs atop the Hot 100 chart in history. The single spent its final week at No. 1 on its 46th week on the chart, recorded as the latest No. 1 single in Hot 100 history Americans like wacky dances? I understand why it's possible that americans care a whole lot more about Cowboy Bepop, or K-Pop, than japan, but I will completely concede that I still have no idea what you're point is or how to respond to it and I will elaborate on my confusion. Here's my understanding, or rather misunderstanding. Stuff like One Piece, JoJo AssClas, DBZ are the minority, nothing else in Japan except stuff like Conan or something is anywhere near as popular as they are, it's pretty much like comic books here. Everyone knows everyone knows what comic books are, everyone knows what Marvel and DC are, Batman and Superman are, Joker and um...Lex Luthor(?) are but hardly anyone outside a dedicated fanbase really actually reads them. And nobody knows what the hell Parastye is. But the popular anime are still decently, moderately popular enough to sustain. Or they wouldn't have 465 episodes(dammit naruto, end already), is my point. Also one of my more important points is it probably isn't viewed like literally satan in Toyko. Nobody's going to be like "I HEARD THAT GUY WATCHED A CARTOON WITH A MAN WITH SHARP HANDS, STAY AWAY" as most seem to tell me. |
ashfrliebertJun 8, 2016 6:23 PM
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KonaKoffee said: Also, I never stated anything regarding anime being mainstream, I simply stated that anime is what they call their animated films and shows. trying to call it "mainstream" has no real meaning because it is simply an entertainment medium like any other. There are particular series that are popular among anime watchers in Japan, but I never stated that it was a clear indicator that meant anime is popular as a whole. Also, everyone should be aware that the whole "otaku, kawaii desu" stuff isn't widely praised in Japan as much as some anime fans try to praise that subculture, like how some American fans aren't exactly looked up to for being nerds. There is still a large part of the US where we have plenty of nerds though, just like Japan has anime fans scattered throughout the country. Regardless though, anime is still enjoyed by many people in japan and not all of them are part of the "otaku" subculture. Just like our comic book heroes are widely loved and praised here, but not all superhero fans are comic book nerds. Of course this isn't saying that anime is more common to watch in japan than their other mediums of entertainment. But when people try to make it seem as if anime fans are somehow shunned by society isn't exactly true. Maybe the hardcore "otaku" fans are looked down upon, but not people who casually enjoy a few anime series. OK, I understand where you're getting at. The reason I did that because I wasn't sure if you had known this thread was created 2 years ago, and I revived it. But after reading this post. I get it now. |
mdo7 said: OK, I understand where you're getting at. The reason I did that because I wasn't sure if you had known this thread was created 2 years ago, and I revived it. But after reading this post. I get it now. lol wait, what's the significance of knowing the thread was created two years ago? Was there some sort of event? O_o |
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