| That's right, come at me sub purists!! I honestly think it's better to watch this dubbed. Of course this is all subjective opinion, but I feel it's a valid one for this anime. Now let me explain why. To begin with, me saying I prefer the dub does not necessarily mean I think it's better or higher in quality than the Japanese. If someone claims Mamoru Miyano is the one and true voice of Okabe, I would not argue against them. So why do I think the dub is the better way to go? Well, it all boils down to the limitations of subs in general. It's an unfortunate fact; there are adjustments to be made when watching subbed. For instance, we are obviously unable to focus on the enunciation of specific words since we don't understand them, and are instead forced to listen the general tone of the speaker when they deliver their lines of dialogue. In something like Steins;Gate where 90% of the show is dialogue, this is a major point. Much of the humor in the show results from Okabe's eccentric personality and his snappy remarks. I'm sorry, but it's much harder for the dialogue he has to be as effective when you're reading subtitles. In order to fully appreciate the linguistics and his ability to turn a phrase, it has to be heard in your language. The novelty of the show's quick wit is lost somewhat when you read it while listening to another language. This is especially the case when you see the style of the dubbed version. True, Michael Tatum's Okabe isn't quite as hammy and over the top as Miyano's, but the script makes up for this by upping the sophistication of the dialogue. Honestly, compare a conversation in the Japanese and English, and you'll instantly see the increased fluency and eloquence in Tatum's dialogue. He plays the more dignified and literate Okabe incredibly well. Now there is obviously more to this conversation than the points I brought up - but I still maintain that for this anime, the dialogue has the best effect when it's in your language. I don't deny the quality of the original Japanese, I'm just making the point that it's naturally limited by the medium of language. If you speak or understand Japanese, or if you're arguing objective quality, my argument doesn't apply. |
MickdrewDec 21, 2013 1:24 AM
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I think the dub is better I honestly think it's better to watch this dubbed if you're arguing objective quality, my argument doesn't apply You tend to contradict yourself, dub lover. :O Sasuga dub lover. Honestly, as to the substance of your actual points, the fact that you have missed one of the most important things about Okabe in your analysis of voice actors says it all about the dub's ability to get the story across. Miyano is so much better than the dub guy at portraying despair. Humor? Sure, it's subjective, but the despair is undeniable. Miyano does it so much better. Watching it dubbed over subbed is just asking to miss out on some of the most emotionally involving moments of the show. It's also not only about Okabe, frankly. Suzuha, Mayuri, and Moeka are all absolutely dreadful in the dub. My friend IRL who watched it dubbed didn't even think Suzuha's letter of despair was particularly sad, and I couldn't understand it until I watched the show dubbed myself. In a direct comparison of watching that letter be read, it gets embarrassing fast for the dub version. Utterly dreadful. Kurisu is also substantially worse. Only Daru, the throwaway comedic relief character (for the most part) could be said to be better than the sub version. |
imbs said: I think the dub is better I honestly think it's better to watch this dubbed if you're arguing objective quality, my argument doesn't apply You tend to contradict yourself, dub lover. No contradiction exists, you misquoted me. I didn't say "I think the dub is better", I actually said "I think it's better dubbed". Small difference? No, the former quotation implies I'm arguing for overall quality, while the latter allows me to argue for overall experience (It is the title of this topic, so try to get this part right). I took special care to be consistent with my arguments, so I don't appreciate having my points twisted around like this. As for your arguments, there is definitely merit to them. I don't doubt Miyano is basically second to none in terms of emoting, he is one of the best voice actors around. I prefer the overall personality of the dub, but if you're looking for emotional punch then Miyano is the winner. Watching it dubbed over subbed is just asking to miss out on some of the most emotionally involving moments of the show. Here you go too far. How is anyone "missing out" on these moments? While I agree Miyano does the better job in the emotional scenes, Tatum does remarkably well in his own right. To imply he gives a forgettable performance is being way too biased on your part. It's difficult to think of another English voice actor that could have done as well as he did. I don't understand how your friend could see Suzuha's letter as not being sad. As someone who has seen the show in the opposite order (I watched the dub first), I found the scene where they read her letter very sad. It would have been one of my favorite moments in the show regardless of whether I watched the subbed or not. Mayuri seems like the same character in each. Kurisu does come off somewhat different, that doesn't mean "substantially worse". How ironic that I actually don't care for Daru in the dub versus the sub. |
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imbs said: I think the dub is better I honestly think it's better to watch this dubbed if you're arguing objective quality, my argument doesn't apply You tend to contradict yourself, dub lover. :O Sasuga dub lover. Honestly, as to the substance of your actual points, the fact that you have missed one of the most important things about Okabe in your analysis of voice actors says it all about the dub's ability to get the story across. Miyano is so much better than the dub guy at portraying despair. Humor? Sure, it's subjective, but the despair is undeniable. Miyano does it so much better. Watching it dubbed over subbed is just asking to miss out on some of the most emotionally involving moments of the show. It's also not only about Okabe, frankly. Suzuha, Mayuri, and Moeka are all absolutely dreadful in the dub. My friend IRL who watched it dubbed didn't even think Suzuha's letter of despair was particularly sad, and I couldn't understand it until I watched the show dubbed myself. In a direct comparison of watching that letter be read, it gets embarrassing fast for the dub version. Utterly dreadful. Kurisu is also substantially worse. Only Daru, the throwaway comedic relief character (for the most part) could be said to be better than the sub version. First off, I doubt he's contradicting himself for any other reason than to try to be polite with his opinion. Hell, I'd probably do the same thing. People who tend to look at both sides of the argument and attempt to give an unbiased criticism tend to do this a lot, since it's complicated to put into words. Either way, when it comes to criticizing the dubs, it's all purely opinionated. If you want exaggerated emotions in your anime (subs), then maybe you'll like old 1930s movies. If you want realistic emotions in your anime (typically the American preference), you'll go with dubs. Which leads to this conclusion: dubs are better than subs IN THIS CASE**. Your argument proves no point at all, while the mickdrew guy actually provided substantial points. He explains why it's *technically* better in dubs than in subtitles, and gives a couple examples. And to be honest, his points are 90% of the reason why I personally prefer dubs a bit more than subs (about 55:45, depending on the scenario). In this case, I can barely even think up one valid point in why the subs would be better than the dubs except for one; and that is that subbed versions tend to have higher quality videos if you're streaming. It could be worse, really. If this was a pure mecha anime that was 90% dialogue, subtitles would be disastrous if you don't understand Japanese (which is the OP's last point). TL;DR: All I read here is a one sided argument against a sub lover and a logical anime viewer. |
no contradiction exists. It is still a contradiction, slight misquote or not. What you are actually looking for is 'I prefer the dub version.' It's not a big deal either way though, or a serious contradiction. Here you go too far. How is anyone "missing out" on these moments? Perhaps that was too strongly worded on my part, but there is certainly less emotional impact. There is not really an inherent reason why dub is worse than sub (in some anime). But the reality is, for an English actor to be stuck doing anime voice roles he has to either just be starting out, or a failure. It is not prestigious for them to be in that situation, whereas it is clearly quite different for japanese voice actors. You thus have a far better talent pool to pick from for Japanese VAs. This is a major reason you should always stick with subs for any show you haven't seen yet. And it is not all purely opinionated at all guy directly above me. Some criticisms of the dub are actually factual. Like when Kurisu is translating the English into Japanese when they first hack into SERN. This is an actual inherent problem with dubbing over subbing with steins;gate. In the dub it is literally nonsensical at that point. In the dub, as far as the viewer knows Daru just asks Kurisu out of the blue to read the monitor that she is the furthest away from everyone to, and she accepts willingly for some reason. It's just nonsense in the dub, and inarguably so. The rest of your post is garbage so I won't respond to any of it. |
imbsDec 22, 2013 1:02 AM
LividDavid said: Either way, when it comes to criticizing the dubs, it's all purely opinionated. If you want exaggerated emotions in your anime (subs), then maybe you'll like old 1930s movies. If you want realistic emotions in your anime (typically the American preference), you'll go with dubs. Which leads to this conclusion: dubs are better than subs IN THIS CASE**. Your argument proves no point at all, while the mickdrew guy actually provided substantial points. He explains why it's *technically* better in dubs than in subtitles, and gives a couple examples. And to be honest, his points are 90% of the reason why I personally prefer dubs a bit more than subs (about 55:45, depending on the scenario). In this case, I can barely even think up one valid point in why the subs would be better than the dubs except for one; and that is that subbed versions tend to have higher quality videos if you're streaming. It could be worse, really. If this was a pure mecha anime that was 90% dialogue, subtitles would be disastrous if you don't understand Japanese (which is the OP's last point). TL;DR: All I read here is a one sided argument against a sub lover and a logical anime viewer. >realistic emotions Realistic=/=almost no emotion. The VA's in the dubs that I attempted to watch were literally reading a script that was given to them.They werent even trying. I prefer "exaggerated" emotions than none at all. And "dubs are better because reading subs is a hassle" isnt a valid point.I can read subs without losing what is going on in the scene.That some cant do that doesnt make the dubs better in any way. TL;DR: All I read here is a one sided argument against a sub lover and a logical anime viewer. .... pfft |
ssjokgDec 22, 2013 4:27 AM
| DUB SUCKS ! how you can at all watch that disgusting DUB when watching such amazing anime??! shame on you all who support this. and HOW YOU CAN REPLACE GENIAL SEIYUU of main: Miyano Mamoru who is perfectly voicing Okabe ! and Yuki Sakakibara and other.. IRREPLECEABLE ! dub I heard and it's so borring it sucks, they can't show the true feelings and atmosphere of this series nor characters. also japanese humor can't be replaced by those cheap dub voices. |
 *ANIME I.NTERE.ST*----> +IN anime pictures and get FREE anime & manga merchandize from JAPAN! |
SwiftKilla said: First of all English isnt the everyday language in every western country.Actually I know what you mean. Apart from the traumatic dialogue, the humor is actually better in dub than sub. A watcher outside of Japan would find the subs funny, but when it comes to the dub, the dialogue is done in a way that fits how western culture speaks everyday language. With the subs, think of it this way. Even if the subs are translated to fit western culture language, it doesn't feel right because it's not the literate translation. Dubs use alot of internet jargon and it's the type of language that we are all familiar with, which is why the dialogue used for the humor is better. Secondly,in S;G the subs just like the script were full of internet jargon. Just because most of us know English doesnt mean that we will like a dub because we can hear the dialogue in english. Case in point the Monogatari series. The "I bit my tongue"/ "kamimashita" gags would be totally ruined as well as every other series taht uses such gags. |
| I think it's better to eat some tamales. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
SamuraiSx said: DUB SUCKS ! how you can at all watch that disgusting DUB when watching such amazing anime??! shame on you all who support this. and HOW YOU CAN REPLACE GENIAL SEIYUU of main: Miyano Mamoru who is perfectly voicing Okabe ! and Yuki Sakakibara and other.. IRREPLECEABLE ! dub I heard and it's so borring it sucks, they can't show the true feelings and atmosphere of this series nor characters. also japanese humor can't be replaced by those cheap dub voices. You. Leave. @ssjokg: You like exaggerated emotions? Well I don't. And guess what? Our opinions don't mean a damn. And yes, the fact that dubs are less of a hassle to listen to than subs are a valid point. We're not just arguing about how good the voices of the VA's are (although, I can still argue against subs in this matter, depending on the situation). We're also including the convenience of the two. Just because you can comprehend while reading words (subs) as fast as listening to the words (dubs) doesn't mean anyone else can do the same, which is the largest flaw in your statement. Don't think that the fact that you're not part of the majority here means that the point doesn't stand. Maybe not for you, at least, but for everyone else, yes. FYI: I can argue for both sides, be it dubs or subs. In this case I'm arguing for dubs, so don't think I'm being bias or a sub-hater here. Also, everything I stated up above only applies to Steins;Gate, not anime in its entirety. |
SamuraiSx said: Weaboo has been confirmedDUB SUCKS ! how you can at all watch that disgusting DUB when watching such amazing anime??! shame on you all who support this. and HOW YOU CAN REPLACE GENIAL SEIYUU of main: Miyano Mamoru who is perfectly voicing Okabe ! and Yuki Sakakibara and other.. IRREPLECEABLE ! dub I heard and it's so borring it sucks, they can't show the true feelings and atmosphere of this series nor characters. also japanese humor can't be replaced by those cheap dub voices. |
an egomaniac and a fool |
| From your first point, your lazy, for your second point, you suck at reading. Sub over Dub of Steins;Gate all day with a no-brainer. 100% on the original Japanese version. |
| You're wrong, subs are always better. |
 |
| I feel as if I should put a "NO SUB SLUTS" barrier on this thread before we get people like the one above commenting. Then again, fat chance that would do any good against hardcore otaku that are at a near-mental state... Might as well try. |
| Well guys, just to chuck my 5 cents into this thread, i REALLY liked the dub. When i told my friend i watched S;G in dub he called me 'trash'. I know he was joking though. So my friend's comments in conjunction with what i've actually read here, means that i will 100% look forward to rewatching S;G with subs! Additionally, i don't understand how people can't just respect other peoples' opinions and leave it at that, lol. If you like the sub better, that's your opinion, you don't need to push it on others, lol. This isn't a 'HEY, LETS HATE ON DUBS' thread. KTHXBYE <3 |
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LividDavid said: SamuraiSx said: DUB SUCKS ! how you can at all watch that disgusting DUB when watching such amazing anime??! shame on you all who support this. and HOW YOU CAN REPLACE GENIAL SEIYUU of main: Miyano Mamoru who is perfectly voicing Okabe ! and Yuki Sakakibara and other.. IRREPLECEABLE ! dub I heard and it's so borring it sucks, they can't show the true feelings and atmosphere of this series nor characters. also japanese humor can't be replaced by those cheap dub voices. You. Leave. @ssjokg: You like exaggerated emotions? Well I don't. And guess what? Our opinions don't mean a damn. And yes, the fact that dubs are less of a hassle to listen to than subs are a valid point. We're not just arguing about how good the voices of the VA's are (although, I can still argue against subs in this matter, depending on the situation). We're also including the convenience of the two. Just because you can comprehend while reading words (subs) as fast as listening to the words (dubs) doesn't mean anyone else can do the same, which is the largest flaw in your statement. Don't think that the fact that you're not part of the majority here means that the point doesn't stand. Maybe not for you, at least, but for everyone else, yes. FYI: I can argue for both sides, be it dubs or subs. In this case I'm arguing for dubs, so don't think I'm being bias or a sub-hater here. Also, everything I stated up above only applies to Steins;Gate, not anime in its entirety. That you and others,and that isnt the majority, cant read the subs and look at the scenes at the same time doesnt make dubs better.It has nothing to do with quality so no it isnt a valid point. If you dont like "exaggeration" ,which is the point of any kind of acting, and you like them just reading their lines then good for you. ANd if your opinion isnt worth a damn then dont post it in the first place. @Arvis Sub elitism....So you ignore the dub elitism.Good for you.You didnt even say why dub is better. Your only point is that if you know English then the dub is better than subs. Claiming that dubs are better because they are in English is annoying as well. LividDavid said: I feel as if I should put a "NO SUB SLUTS" barrier on this thread before we get people like the one above commenting. Then again, fat chance that would do any good against hardcore otaku that are at a near-mental state... Might as well try. So do you have any points other than insulting others and calling subs a hassle? ---------------------------------------------- The only way for the English dubs to be accepted by those that prefer subs, is to use ACTUAL actors for the voice acting.You know like those famous guys that voice characters in every single disney/pixar/etrc movie where they actually put effort and talent. |
ssjokgDec 23, 2013 11:29 PM
| Oh god, why. |
| Good for you, I think it's better subbed. |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
ssjokg said: LividDavid said: I feel as if I should put a "NO SUB SLUTS" barrier on this thread before we get people like the one above commenting. Then again, fat chance that would do any good against hardcore otaku that are at a near-mental state... Might as well try. So do you have any points other than insulting others and calling subs a hassle? In that last post, nope. I tend to dislike ignorant people more than other type of people. I should note that everyone's preferences are different, which is why in my first post I used the word "technically" and "in this case" when expressing my opinion on the subject. If you like the subs more of Steins;Gate, then so be it. I'm not trying to bash on your opinion, nor am I trying to convert you into liking dubs. But don't say things like "Subs are absolutely better than dubs," because it peeves the people who appreciate the dubs. Or, at the very least, try to back up your argument. I'd like to point out that we're discussing Steins;Gate here, not anime in its entirety. So slow down, sport. I already told you that my point depends on the type of situation we're talking about here. Just because you can read and comprehend the laws and equations of conceptual Physics doesn't mean that my point is entirely ruled out. That's like saying "I just burnt your house down. Only a portion of the human species was affected, so my action wasn't bad." Compare that to "You're saying this is an inconvenience to you and others. Well, not to the rest, so your point is invalid." You don't seem to have a point at all, unless your idea of a point is "Subs are better than dubs because they sound better." In which case, I'd like to know why not EVERYONE prefer subs over dubs in terms of quality, if subs are absolutely better in this case. I've never seen a dub elitist before in my years of watching anime. Even on dub sites, I've never seen anyone act rude/arrogant/godly/superior just because they prefer dubs. I've seen so many sub elitists during my time of watching anime that I've practically grown accustomed to it. It's one reason why I prefer the dubs; the fan base does not act like they're gods of anime. Besides, even if a dub elitist actually exists, I won't ignore the fact that it's a rarity. Also, by reading the subs, it's physically impossible to look at the scenes at the same time, whether or not you want to deny it. Which in turn, makes it more difficult to pay attention to the animation. You can focus your line of vision on the area that's also around the text, but that still makes it harder to focus on anything else. Don't know what you're trying to get at with the "reading while watching" statement. Try reading some guy's post and at the same time perfectly picturing their avatar. |
LividDavidDec 24, 2013 2:26 AM
If this is satire, it's freaking brilliant. The facts are: - If you don't speak Japanese, Dubs ≥ Subs - Steins;Gate Dub > Cowboy Bebop Dub - therefore - Steins;Gate Dub = Greatest Dub Of All Time - If you claim Subs > Dubs and you don't speak Japanese, you have an agenda. Which is fine. But don't pretend you're "correct" or "superior" because you feel this way. It's annoying. -Arvis This is the most hilarious post I've seen in a while, and is in fact the very definition of elitism. Start by giving no reasons, even whilst accusing those with reason on their side of having none. Then you act like it's stupid to have any other opinion but your own, and do your best to state your own opinion as a fact, even when it's completely idiotic to do so. This post was the definition of Irony. It is by far the most elitist post in the thread. |
LividDavid said: ssjokg said: LividDavid said: I feel as if I should put a "NO SUB SLUTS" barrier on this thread before we get people like the one above commenting. Then again, fat chance that would do any good against hardcore otaku that are at a near-mental state... Might as well try. So do you have any points other than insulting others and calling subs a hassle? In that last post, nope. I tend to dislike ignorant people more than other type of people. I should note that everyone's preferences are different, which is why in my first post I used the word "technically" and "in this case" when expressing my opinion on the subject. If you like the subs more of Steins;Gate, then so be it. I'm not trying to bash on your opinion, nor am I trying to convert you into liking dubs. But don't say things like "Subs are absolutely better than dubs," because it peeves the people who appreciate the dubs. Or, at the very least, try to back up your argument. I'd like to point out that we're discussing Steins;Gate here, not anime in its entirety. So slow down, sport. I already told you that my point depends on the type of situation we're talking about here. Just because you can read and comprehend the laws and equations of conceptual Physics doesn't mean that my point is entirely ruled out. That's like saying "I just burnt your house down. Only a portion of the human species was affected, so my action wasn't bad." Compare that to "You're saying this is an inconvenience to you and others. Well, not to the rest, so your point is invalid." You don't seem to have a point at all, unless your idea of a point is "Subs are better than dubs because they sound better." In which case, I'd like to know why not EVERYONE prefer subs over dubs in terms of quality, if subs are absolutely better in this case. I've never seen a dub elitist before in my years of watching anime. Even on dub sites, I've never seen anyone act rude/arrogant/godly/superior just because they prefer dubs. I've seen so many sub elitists during my time of watching anime that I've practically grown accustomed to it. It's one reason why I prefer the dubs; the fan base does not act like they're gods of anime. Besides, even if a dub elitist actually exists, I won't ignore the fact that it's a rarity. Also, by reading the subs, it's physically impossible to look at the scenes at the same time, whether or not you want to deny it. Which in turn, makes it more difficult to pay attention to the animation. You can focus your line of vision on the area that's also around the text, but that still makes it harder to focus on anything else. Don't know what you're trying to get at with the "reading while watching" statement. Try reading some guy's post and at the same time perfectly picturing their avatar. That's a perfect example of a wall of text that says nothing at all. I did back up my argument and so did imbs.More so than someone that calls dubs better just because it is a dub and insults others. Be it S;G or any other anime with heavy dialogue nothing changes.The "problems" you mention remain.Strangely only those that like dubs have those problems. "Subs are better than dubs because they sound better" wasnt my only argument and and it is a fact that gags are lost in the dubs. I dont know why they prefer dubs.Why do pople prefer pepsi over coca cola, or Twilight over Dracula, or SAO over LOGH?Thats preferences.That japanese voice actors are better(with the exception of one I know) than English ones is a fact.If you cant tell that then you cant tell the difference between good and bad acting. You havent seen a dub elitist?What about Arvis here?The fanbase has nothing to do with the quality of dubs and subs. Yeah by missing the movement of a characters mouth,for a fraction of a second, is such a minus.Not to mention that half of the stuff they say in romcoms are understandable even without subs. @Arvis Bad acting is bad acting. Being accustomed to dubs or subs doesnt change that. |
| I only watched the first episode dubbed out of curiousity when it came out so I don't necessarily have enough knowledge to comment. I have been hearing from a number of people that the dub was better, but then, they watched the dub first and people tend to enjoy what they hear first better. From the first episode, I thought Tatum did a good job actually making Okabe sound intelligent, but he lost a bit of his zany personality. Mayuri sounded way worse, which is what made me choose not to continue watching it since she was one of my favourite characters. Kurisu sounded fine, and I don't particularly think her Japanese voice actor did that great of a job anyway. Daru was certainly better, but that's really not saying much. Anyways, these arguments are kind of pointless, but I think it was certainly a decent dub. |
Slyr3do0n said: Decent maybe.Or even good who knows.But from the clips I have seen I cant see it being better from the original.I only watched the first episode dubbed out of curiousity when it came out so I don't necessarily have enough knowledge to comment. I have been hearing from a number of people that the dub was better, but then, they watched the dub first and people tend to enjoy what they hear first better. From the first episode, I thought Tatum did a good job actually making Okabe sound intelligent, but he lost a bit of his zany personality. Mayuri sounded way worse, which is what made me choose not to continue watching it since she was one of my favourite characters. Kurisu sounded fine, and I don't particularly think her Japanese voice actor did that great of a job anyway. Daru was certainly better, but that's really not saying much. Anyways, these arguments are kind of pointless, but I think it was certainly a decent dub. |
ssjokg said: LividDavid said: ssjokg said: LividDavid said: I feel as if I should put a "NO SUB SLUTS" barrier on this thread before we get people like the one above commenting. Then again, fat chance that would do any good against hardcore otaku that are at a near-mental state... Might as well try. So do you have any points other than insulting others and calling subs a hassle? In that last post, nope. I tend to dislike ignorant people more than other type of people. I should note that everyone's preferences are different, which is why in my first post I used the word "technically" and "in this case" when expressing my opinion on the subject. If you like the subs more of Steins;Gate, then so be it. I'm not trying to bash on your opinion, nor am I trying to convert you into liking dubs. But don't say things like "Subs are absolutely better than dubs," because it peeves the people who appreciate the dubs. Or, at the very least, try to back up your argument. I'd like to point out that we're discussing Steins;Gate here, not anime in its entirety. So slow down, sport. I already told you that my point depends on the type of situation we're talking about here. Just because you can read and comprehend the laws and equations of conceptual Physics doesn't mean that my point is entirely ruled out. That's like saying "I just burnt your house down. Only a portion of the human species was affected, so my action wasn't bad." Compare that to "You're saying this is an inconvenience to you and others. Well, not to the rest, so your point is invalid." You don't seem to have a point at all, unless your idea of a point is "Subs are better than dubs because they sound better." In which case, I'd like to know why not EVERYONE prefer subs over dubs in terms of quality, if subs are absolutely better in this case. I've never seen a dub elitist before in my years of watching anime. Even on dub sites, I've never seen anyone act rude/arrogant/godly/superior just because they prefer dubs. I've seen so many sub elitists during my time of watching anime that I've practically grown accustomed to it. It's one reason why I prefer the dubs; the fan base does not act like they're gods of anime. Besides, even if a dub elitist actually exists, I won't ignore the fact that it's a rarity. Also, by reading the subs, it's physically impossible to look at the scenes at the same time, whether or not you want to deny it. Which in turn, makes it more difficult to pay attention to the animation. You can focus your line of vision on the area that's also around the text, but that still makes it harder to focus on anything else. Don't know what you're trying to get at with the "reading while watching" statement. Try reading some guy's post and at the same time perfectly picturing their avatar. That's a perfect example of a wall of text that says nothing at all. I did back up my argument and so did imbs.More so than someone that calls dubs better just because it is a dub and insults others. Be it S;G or any other anime with heavy dialogue nothing changes.The "problems" you mention remain.Strangely only those that like dubs have those problems. "Subs are better than dubs because they sound better" wasnt my only argument and and it is a fact that gags are lost in the dubs. I dont know why they prefer dubs.Why do pople prefer pepsi over coca cola, or Twilight over Dracula, or SAO over LOGH?Thats preferences.That japanese voice actors are better(with the exception of one I know) than English ones is a fact.If you cant tell that then you cant tell the difference between good and bad acting. You havent seen a dub elitist?What about Arvis here?The fanbase has nothing to do with the quality of dubs and subs. Yeah by missing the movement of a characters mouth,for a fraction of a second, is such a minus.Not to mention that half of the stuff they say in romcoms are understandable even without subs. @Arvis Bad acting is bad acting. Being accustomed to dubs or subs doesnt change that. Ha. Believe me when I say that Arvis is on the lower part of the poll here. This is a thread comparing the dub to the sub. Of course this thread would have an elitist bait. And honestly, he's the first I remember that likes dubs that's actually acting like a dub elitist. Compare that to the five+ other sub lovers on this thread acting like an elitist. There you go again, erasing the minority that still remains and calling out a point invalid. A fraction of a second? Sure that's not a lot, but it's still a nuisance. I've watched dubs and subs enough to know this for a fact. "Dub is better because it's a dub"? When did I say that? My wall of text isn't for nothing, you know. I'm voicing my opinion on one anime, while you're voicing your opinion on all anime, and ineffectively so. My rudeness(?) in this situation pales compared to yours. I'm not saying things like "subs are bad" or "subs suck cus acting sucks" am I? No, because I know that's a red flag of being bias. We could get American VA's similar to those from Disney, not that that's bad, but it would sound annoying as hell to those that speak English in the case of anime. Stop calling your generalized preferences as facts. They aren't. If Jap VA is actually "better", then why do I prefer the dubs in Steins;Gate in terms of acting? It's illogical and probably psychologically impossible to like something that's "worse" than the other. That's how you know neither of them are better than the other. I'm not insane at all. For a person that has seen less than 1% of dubs from all the anime they've watch, you sure are acting like a professional. You're starting the sound like an elitist here. The only thing making you not an elitist is that at the very least you're not acting superior in your opinion. |
LividDavidDec 24, 2013 11:29 AM
| Again you said nothing about the quality. You are talking about efficiency, if you want to call it that.Still those that prefer subs over dubs are way more and it hardly makes an anime better. You do realize that people will watch a dub just because it is a dub right?There are many that refuse to watch anything that isnt dubbed.Then there are those that will call any dub better than any sub.THAT is bias.As you said the minority.Even I have one or two dubs that I prefer over the originals,reasons being irrelevant with quality but anyway. To call dubs the logical choice because it is "easier to watch" for SOME isnt logical.If that was the case then EVERYBODY would watch dubs.It is the logical choice for them, not in general.BTW I am talking about dialogue heavy anime which was this argument about so it is relevant. Generalized preferences? Have you even heard jap VA's in different roles?Show me "good" English VAs that can change their voice for different chars. And IF I am losing 20% of the animation is SOL anime where they do almost nothing at all, then where is the problem? Lest go back at the monogatari example.No I am not losing anything. |
| Steins;Gate dub is not bad, but it changes the characters personalities a little too much for my taste (namely Daru's). It's all about preference though. Some people are like you and prefer to watch the dub, others like to watch the sub. It's not a problem really. No reason to force your views on what happens to be a more enjoyable watching experience. |
ssjokg said: Again you said nothing about the quality. You are talking about efficiency, if you want to call it that.Still those that prefer subs over dubs are way more and it hardly makes an anime better. You do realize that people will watch a dub just because it is a dub right?There are many that refuse to watch anything that isnt dubbed.Then there are those that will call any dub better than any sub.THAT is bias.As you said the minority.Even I have one or two dubs that I prefer over the originals,reasons being irrelevant with quality but anyway. To call dubs the logical choice because it is "easier to watch" for SOME isnt logical.If that was the case then EVERYBODY would watch dubs.It is the logical choice for them, not in general.BTW I am talking about dialogue heavy anime which was this argument about so it is relevant. Generalized preferences? Have you even heard jap VA's in different roles?Show me "good" English VAs that can change their voice for different chars. And IF I am losing 20% of the animation is SOL anime where they do almost nothing at all, then where is the problem? Lest go back at the monogatari example.No I am not losing anything. Since this is going nowhere, I might as well put my bias mode on. I very rarely search up voice actors, so don't expect me to label any names, as I know very few. Japanese VA's, if anything, hugely lack variety. It's for this reason that people think they can play different roles, when in fact the truth is that they play the same acting for nearly all roles. In almost every anime I've watched, 90% of all female characters sound like abused cats. Just because they know how to squeal doesn't mean their voice acting is any better than dubs. The rest of the females, mainly adult characters, sound almost EXACTLY the same, with the deep-almost masculine voice. Compare this to English dub, where every high school anime girl has at least a noticeable difference in their voices, and don't sound like kindergartens every time they yell. Sure, there are a lot more Jap VA's than American VA's, but that doesn't help the fact that the variety is nearly nonexistent. Even if it's good , it's still the same thing over and over. Hell, I'm afraid to watch subbed anime without my headphones (which, fortunately, I replaced with new ones). The voice acting of the girls become so high-pitched I'm constantly thinking my siblings think I'm watching hentai. This goes double during fight scenes between female characters. It gets so bad that I sometimes drop the anime if it doesn't have a dubbed version. In dubs they manage to keep the female voices deep enough to not bust an ear drum while still being feminine. I'm not trying to say dubs are automatically better, I'm saying that in certain situations that they are "technically" better. You don't have to follow logic or technicalities; in fact, most people don't. And yes, I'm talking about efficiency. Why the hell would I waste my time judging the quality if my opinions aren't going to make a decent point? Opinions are just opinions. Everything in this post already states a few things about how I view subs, if that's what you were hoping for. I'm done here. This was supposed to be an argument about Steins;Gate. I've already generalized anime voice acting as a whole in this post, which I've been trying to steer away from this entire time. |
| I'm with you here. J Michael Tatum gave us such a believable performance as Okabe. Bombastic, delusional, and melancholic all rolled into one. Didn't think he was able to pull it off. I was wrong. Trina was fantastic as Kurisu. She captures her tsundere-ish yet human attitude to the T. Everyone else was amazing as well. Practically every performance was a standout. I also really liked Suzuha's English VA (forgot who it was). Honestly, don't let these sub fanboys destroy a dub for you. I think the Japanese version's good too, but like you, I prefer it dubbed (I'm usually pro dub anyway). |
| Fight Club > Anime Scott Pilgrim > Manga Death Cab for Cutie > Yuki Kajura "Who'd you rather be? The Beatles or The Rolling Stones?" MY REVIEWS! READ THEM. http://myanimelist.net/profile/StillSwingin007/reviews |
ssjokg said: Generalized preferences? Have you even heard jap VA's in different roles? Show me "good" English VAs that can change their voice for different chars . I'm laughing my ass off right now. I can list off plenty examples. but I'll narrow it down: - Luci Christian: Listen to her performance in Full Metal Panic. Then listen to her performance in Welcome to the NHK. - J Michael Tatum: Hey, we're talking bout Steins;Gate after all. Listen to his performance as Okabe. Then listen to Scar from FMA B - Johnny Yong Bosch: Listen to his performance as Lelouch in Code Geass. Then listen to his performance as Renton from Eureka 7. If that's not variety in voice, I don't know what is. |
| Fight Club > Anime Scott Pilgrim > Manga Death Cab for Cutie > Yuki Kajura "Who'd you rather be? The Beatles or The Rolling Stones?" MY REVIEWS! READ THEM. http://myanimelist.net/profile/StillSwingin007/reviews |
ssjokg said: Show me "good" English VAs that can change their voice for different chars . Who needs to change their voice when you have the voice of Crispin Freeman? Seems pretty pointless to me. |
an egomaniac and a fool |
Emnay said: ssjokg said: Show me "good" English VAs that can change their voice for different chars . Who needs to change their voice when you have the voice of Crispin Freeman ? Seems pretty pointless to me. - Alucard (Hellsing) - Kirei Kotomine (Fate Zero) - Kyon (Haruhi Suzumiya) - Holland (Eureka 7) Seems legit. |
| Fight Club > Anime Scott Pilgrim > Manga Death Cab for Cutie > Yuki Kajura "Who'd you rather be? The Beatles or The Rolling Stones?" MY REVIEWS! READ THEM. http://myanimelist.net/profile/StillSwingin007/reviews |
| @LividDavid Yeah comparing all the romcom and boy meets girl series ,where even the chars and plot are the same is an actual point. Jap squeal >Eng squeal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lnna2-Kc7E And since I post a Fate/ series,English studios dont even have consistency.How many times did Saber's VA change?Why did characters got new VA's even thought their old ones still remained in the series but with another char? http://myanimelist.net/people/92/Sayaka_Oohara Thats the kind of VAs I am talking about.IF you compare her with Kugimiya Rie whose almost every role is the same then congrats.Prefect point. StillSwingin007 said: ssjokg said: Generalized preferences? Have you even heard jap VA's in different roles? Show me "good" English VAs that can change their voice for different chars . I'm laughing my ass off right now. I can list off plenty examples. but I'll narrow it down: - Luci Christian: Listen to her performance in Full Metal Panic. Then listen to her performance in Welcome to the NHK. - J Michael Tatum: Hey, we're talking bout Steins;Gate after all. Listen to his performance as Okabe. Then listen to Scar from FMA B - Johnny Yong Bosch: Listen to his performance as Lelouch in Code Geass. Then listen to his performance as Renton from Eureka 7. If that's not variety in voice, I don't know what is. Scar's voice doesnt fit him at all.Doesnt matter if he changed his voice. While he is good(not as good as Fukuyama)as Lelouch, as Renton he makes the character more annoying than he was(in the beginning). I can change my voice too.That doesnt show anything. @Emnay If Freeman was better than Fujiwara Keiji, Nakata Jouji and Sugita Tomokazu then maybe I could care. |
ssjokg said: I cut myself@Emnay If Freeman was better than Fujiwara Keiji, Nakata Jouji and Sugita Tomokazu then maybe I could care. |
an egomaniac and a fool |
Emnay said: ssjokg said: I cut myself@Emnay If Freeman was better than Fujiwara Keiji, Nakata Jouji and Sugita Tomokazu then maybe I could care. Your sacrifice wont make him better than them. |
ssjokg said: Scar's voice doesnt fit him at all.Doesnt matter if he changed his voice. While he is good(not as good as Fukuyama)as Lelouch, as Renton he makes the character more annoying than he was(in the beginning). I can change my voice too.That doesnt show anything. @Emnay If Freeman was better than Fujiwara Keiji, Nakata Jouji and Sugita Tomokazu then maybe I could care. You are a true sub lover. Even I can't break down your wall. Oh, and Fukuyama doesn't stand a chance compared to Johnny Yong Bosch. Nobody can make a 17 teen year-old high schooler sound more badass than Bosch, be it American, Japanese, or Martian. |
LividDavid said: ssjokg said: Scar's voice doesnt fit him at all.Doesnt matter if he changed his voice. While he is good(not as good as Fukuyama)as Lelouch, as Renton he makes the character more annoying than he was(in the beginning). I can change my voice too.That doesnt show anything. @Emnay If Freeman was better than Fujiwara Keiji, Nakata Jouji and Sugita Tomokazu then maybe I could care. You are a true sub lover. Even I can't break down your wall. Oh, and Fukuyama doesn't stand a chance compared to Johnny Yong Bosch. Nobody can make a 17 teen year-old high schooler sound more badass than Bosch, be it American, Japanese, or Martian. YEah I am a true sub lover because I prefer talent over "efficiency". >Implying that Lelouch should sound badass 24/7.Lets forget all about char personalities. |
ssjokg said: LividDavid said: ssjokg said: Scar's voice doesnt fit him at all.Doesnt matter if he changed his voice. While he is good(not as good as Fukuyama)as Lelouch, as Renton he makes the character more annoying than he was(in the beginning). I can change my voice too.That doesnt show anything. @Emnay If Freeman was better than Fujiwara Keiji, Nakata Jouji and Sugita Tomokazu then maybe I could care. You are a true sub lover. Even I can't break down your wall. Oh, and Fukuyama doesn't stand a chance compared to Johnny Yong Bosch. Nobody can make a 17 teen year-old high schooler sound more badass than Bosch, be it American, Japanese, or Martian. YEah I am a true sub lover because I prefer talent over "efficiency". >Implying that Lelouch should sound badass 24/7. Badassery fits any moment, any time. Bosch has got some raw talent. I wouldn't mind having him read me a bed time story. Edit: Btw, that Fate/Zero trailer was absolutely brilliant. |
LividDavid said: ssjokg said: LividDavid said: ssjokg said: Scar's voice doesnt fit him at all.Doesnt matter if he changed his voice. While he is good(not as good as Fukuyama)as Lelouch, as Renton he makes the character more annoying than he was(in the beginning). I can change my voice too.That doesnt show anything. @Emnay If Freeman was better than Fujiwara Keiji, Nakata Jouji and Sugita Tomokazu then maybe I could care. You are a true sub lover. Even I can't break down your wall. Oh, and Fukuyama doesn't stand a chance compared to Johnny Yong Bosch. Nobody can make a 17 teen year-old high schooler sound more badass than Bosch, be it American, Japanese, or Martian. YEah I am a true sub lover because I prefer talent over "efficiency". >Implying that Lelouch should sound badass 24/7. Badassery fits any moment, any time. Bosch has got some raw talent. I wouldn't mind having him read me a bed time story. Funny that most problems that dub lovers find with Fukuyama is that he made Lelouch sound too badass/adult like for a high school kid.. And no it doesnt fit any moment.Especially with a char that loves to act as if he is on a stage. @ FZ Yeah you are trolling now.If the females,especially the females didnt make you ears bleed than you are as biased as you can get. |
ssjokg said: LividDavid said: ssjokg said: LividDavid said: ssjokg said: Scar's voice doesnt fit him at all.Doesnt matter if he changed his voice. While he is good(not as good as Fukuyama)as Lelouch, as Renton he makes the character more annoying than he was(in the beginning). I can change my voice too.That doesnt show anything. @Emnay If Freeman was better than Fujiwara Keiji, Nakata Jouji and Sugita Tomokazu then maybe I could care. You are a true sub lover. Even I can't break down your wall. Oh, and Fukuyama doesn't stand a chance compared to Johnny Yong Bosch. Nobody can make a 17 teen year-old high schooler sound more badass than Bosch, be it American, Japanese, or Martian. YEah I am a true sub lover because I prefer talent over "efficiency". >Implying that Lelouch should sound badass 24/7. Badassery fits any moment, any time. Bosch has got some raw talent. I wouldn't mind having him read me a bed time story. Funny that most problems that dub lovers find with Fukuyama is that he made Lelouch sound too badass/adult like for a high school kid.. And no it doesnt fit any moment.Especially with a char that loves to act as if he is on a stage. @ FZ Yeah you are trolling now.If the females,especially the females didnt make you ears bleed than you are as biased as you can get. That may be for you, bro, but if I had a chance I'd make my voice like his even if it was 100% of the time (which I would also like). As you might have guessed, Bosch is my favorite English VA. Fukuyama has a badass voice, but Bosch fit Lelouche much more. That Fate Zero trailer was brilliant. Every single voice was down to a pitch that's tolerable. No hyper sonic noises you call a female Japanese VA. Brilliance to the T. In fact, thanks for showing me that trailer. I was planning to start reading some manga after I finish the last few episodes of Steins;Gate, but now I'm going to watch Fate/Zero. Arigatou gozaimasu. |
| Ignoring char personalities,ignoring dub's flaws. Yeah you really have a reason to prefer the dubs.They are in English. |
ssjokg said: Ignoring char personalities,ignoring dub's flaws. Yeah you really have a reason to prefer the dubs.They are in English. .....maybe ;) A sub frequenter wouldn't understand :) |
| The thing I don't seem to get here is how ssjokg seems to be taking his opinion as a fact. Considering that a flaw in a piece of entertainment is only in the eye of the beholder, you'd have to be pretty conceited and closed-minded to think that someone who doesn't see it your way is wrong. The only acceptable explanation for your desire to argue against the dub is that you like the Japanese voices better. Slamming other people for "ignoring flaws" is just pure bullshit. The dub itself is outstanding. I haven't heard much of the Japanese voices so I won't comment on that. One thing I will say is that for either the sub or the dub, the show is full of crappy Internet references not meant for the casual audience, which is sad because I would've liked to have seen a more accessible script considering how engaging the general plot is. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
| Pretty good english dub. But, I still prefer Miyano Mamoru and Imai Asami. |
 |
| It's entirely your opinion, but for me, Renton's Japanese Seiyuu ruined the show for me. |
| Fight Club > Anime Scott Pilgrim > Manga Death Cab for Cutie > Yuki Kajura "Who'd you rather be? The Beatles or The Rolling Stones?" MY REVIEWS! READ THEM. http://myanimelist.net/profile/StillSwingin007/reviews |
StillSwingin007 said: You're not making much sense here. What does Renton from Eureka Seven have to do with Steins;Gate? His VA isn't even in Steins;Gate. And if he/she ruined the show for you then why do you have Steins;Gate rated a 9? And if you're talking about Eureka Seven then a 7?It's entirely your opinion, but for me, Renton's Japanese Seiyuu ruined the show for me. |
Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
IntroverTurtle said: StillSwingin007 said: You're not making much sense here. What does Renton from Eureka Seven have to do with Steins;Gate? His VA isn't even in Steins;Gate. And if he/she ruined the show for you then why do you have Steins;Gate rated a 9? And if you're talking about Eureka Seven then a 7?It's entirely your opinion, but for me, Renton's Japanese Seiyuu ruined the show for me. It was a comment above regarding E7, and I was too lazy to quote it. |
| Fight Club > Anime Scott Pilgrim > Manga Death Cab for Cutie > Yuki Kajura "Who'd you rather be? The Beatles or The Rolling Stones?" MY REVIEWS! READ THEM. http://myanimelist.net/profile/StillSwingin007/reviews |
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