| They been asking sites like youtube for years to filter their anime and guess what, they do filter it just not very well. So this isn't really new news at all. Asking the US government directly wont help at all considering most of the sites that host torrents and downloads are not located in the US. So I think nothing will change like it has been for the past 6 or so years. |
^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| Illegal downloads, eh? When they will release the DVDs with english subtitles that can be shipped in the entire world, then maybe we'll stop. Until then, in countries like mine, there is no other way to watch anime other then downloading it (illegally) ... sorry, Nipon, but I don't think you'll win this one even with the help of USA. |
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| I doubt it will stop. I mean a lot of the DL's and stuff are legal because they are unlicensed over here in the US. I could see them saying that about Bleach and Naruto and already licensed shows, but I don't think they know how many people get their anime from DL sites. They would be shooting themselves in the foot it they go through with this... |
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| In my opinion it's not so much the 'piracy' that's hurting the market it's companies with idiots in charge of the marketing division. Refusal to bring sales prices down to even somewhat reasonable levels. Look where it got Geneon... I mean, anime is under advertised in most places. (at least it is in mine) The few discs of anime I've bought (under 20) have all been at random walmart 2 for 10$ sales. And you just know half the stuff in that bin you've never heard of... or hasn't been mentioned in the last six years. Serious, I just last month found something called Great Gandaioh, from 2001, I have no idea what it is... but I bought two volumes of it because come on... ten bucks and a low low low chance of an anime pinup being in there. Not that anything since Mahoromatic's had a pinup in it. -_- As well as one of Blue Gender and one of Kiddy Grade. You read that right, the newest title is from 2004... okay so, no one knows it exists, in fact the only people buying it probably either watched it as a fansub or know someone who watched the sub and recommended it to them... Can you say Higurashi? aka When They Cry... oh... oops... Geneon... haha sorry about that... but it's an awesome show you could have watched if Geneon had pulled their heads out of their... sandboxes... and paid attention to the fans, aka consumers. |
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| Well there are lots of things on the internet that arnt realy legal, such as illegaly downloading movies, music and software. They havent been able to wipe that from the face of the planet so I realy dont see how they expect to do so with anime. |
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| '' take one fansuber down, ten new fansubbers appear'' (same for P2P sites) :P As long as people can download, they will download. Suport Piracy by downloading (and UPLOADING!) stuff from torrent! v^o^v |
| As for the media companies needing to lower the price for DVD's, CD's and games for that sake, I totally agree. What does it cost... about $1 to produce a DVD with cover and everything? Prices today make no sense at all. Whenever I buy anime or movies on DVD I do it because I want a better quality version of something I really like to watch, but certainly also to support the creators and artists behind it. I would love to have all the good animes I've watched on DVD, but first of all I probably couldn't afford it, and second if I could, I wouldn't pay such an insane price for having a bunch of polymer disks in plastic cases (-_-) I do buy anime whenever I feel like it, but that is far from enough to satisfy my interest in it. It's like shooting your own foot when companies criticize people for piracy. If DVD's were cheaper I would simply buy more of them, perhaps even spend more money than I do today. But setting the prices so high discourage people to buy them at the shops and instead look for easier-to-come-by alternatives. This is not about morale; this is about fans who want to watch anime, movies, play games etc., but they find it necessary to cheat to compensate for what they think is a limiting market. Because of the high prices on media, many people think it's ok to steal copyrighted material. Anime companies could do so much more to appeal to a broader international market. As mentioned earlier in this thread, they could easily finance fansubbers to do the translating - it's open-source all over again. If there were an online TV channel were I could watch good quality anime for a fair price, I would certainly use it, and so would a large portion of the people who practice piracy today, I believe. Therefore I would argue the the media industry does _not_ lose money on piracy; they lose it on overpricing and deprecated, old-fashioned marketing strategies. Welcome to the 21st century. |
helgeOct 24, 2007 2:15 AM
Help this cat on his quest for World Domination!
| It's almost impossible to be stoped. I think this will never happen |
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| I get the feeling this would be solved by doing 2 simple steps 1. Make a Decent anime channel that shows stuff in japanese with decent quality subs (maybe even employ the fansub companies to do this) This has to be the best solution - I live in the UK its not exactly hard to get DVD's here and i do buy series i really like but they have only just set up an anime dedicated channel and even then they are still showing stuff from 1980's e.g. Transformers Headmasters. If they showed new shows legally of course and subbed not dubbed people wouldn't download as much. 2. Make DVD's more avalible with purely subbed versions no dubs and make them cheaper to import or buy in the countries where it is being sold. I am looking at getting the Samurai Champloo box set when it is released here next month buts its gonna cost £70/$140 which is quite expensive for 26 episodes. With the no dubs bit, I mean japan directly sells subbed anime. if people want dubbed they can wait for it to be licensed or not watch it at all. Wells thats the end of my rant hope something comes of my suggestions maybe ill email stright to a company and see whats happans. |
myth720 said: how do the japanese fans pay for the anime they watch on TV? ADS they're paying by watching ads. it's tv's business model. they're making money from ads (roughly speaking). so any tv viewer in japan has all rights to record any tv-show he/she likes cause he/she's "paid" for it by watching ads. and any such viewer can share (has all rights to) such records with friends, for example. real threat for industry would be MASS reproduction; but mass reproduction needs some sort of centralized effort (organization) which is obviously not the case with torrent-distribution (which is decentralized, spontaneous and "unorganized' by its nature). (dvds are another matter...) |
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| I think if you're going to worry about it, your first concern should be how the fansub groups are going to react, not whether or not the United States government will respond. Though I don't see how fans have any right to be angry about this... |
| Whoever said nothing is impossible, never tried slamming a revolving door.... *BUTTON*!! |
minus-one said: myth720 said: how do the japanese fans pay for the anime they watch on TV? ADS they're paying by watching ads. it's tv's business model. they're making money from ads (roughly speaking). so any tv viewer in japan has all rights to record any tv-show he/she likes cause he/she's "paid" for it by watching ads. and any such viewer can share (has all rights to) such records with friends, for example. real threat for industry would be MASS reproduction; but mass reproduction needs some sort of centralized effort (organization) which is obviously not the case with torrent-distribution (which is decentralized, spontaneous and "unorganized' by its nature). (dvds are another matter...) When I watch the RAWs I watch the ads therefore I'm paying for the anime...maybe if fansubers just left the ads in from the RAWs we could all pay and be happy. |
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Megadedhed said: SamuraiTom said: Megadedhed said: SamuraiTom said: Megadedhed said: Japan To Fans: "If you dont pay, we wont give you anime" Anime Fans to Japan: "Screw You, why should we pay for your products?" But... We would still get anime, wouldn't we? Isn't that what we are doing now? They're not exactly releasing their unlicensed anime in the United States yet, but we still getting it via fansubs. Even if they stop releasing anime in the United States, we would still be getting it from somewhere. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. well its not that they are stopping release, its that they are stopping the ILLEGAL release of a series... because licensed or not, fansubs are still property under international copyright. I already know that the Japanese want to stop illegal releases but from your post, "Japan To Fans: 'If you dont pay, we wont give you anime'" it made it sound as if Japan would stop releases of any anime to the United States. Most people are not paying for the anime and they are still getting it. If there be raws, then there be subbers. oh my fault. i meant that as a "those who pay get it, those who don't pay do not" menaing legal liscensed releases, and a bigger crackdown on piracy Ah ok. |
| They could ask the US gov, but what could they do? Nothing. What about other organisations? See how well the RIAA fares in the world? Only thing it is doing is dragging the, already bad reputation, of that business into the gutter. We shall see what will come out of this I guess. I am not going to worry, at least not yet :) |
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| Not too surprised about this but to be honest, I don't think buying the dvd sets here in the US are really worth it. I mean, I'm spending x amount of dollars on an anime when all I really want is the subtitles. I don't want to watch the dubbed and I really would like a way to get the anime without having to pay that extra portion that covers dubbing the anime, that would at least reduce the price. I don't see this actually doing anything though, unless they manage to find a really solid case for someone who is hosting TB of already licensed anime. Besides YouTube is still getting anime uploaded to it no matter how hard they try to stop it from being posted. And at least other sites recognize the licensing of anime and remove the series from their servers (ie crunchyroll) and most fansubbers stop a series when its licensed too, so its not like licensing is being totally ignored by the whole of the anime fandom. But why target the US? Shouldn't they worry about those people that post the raws of an anime episode that just aired? Cause without the raws, fansubs can't be made. |
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| Wow, after reading through this thread, I feel somewhat lucky to be born in this little European country because: 1, We do have an anime channel, not for a whole day though, but still, so people with slow PCs can watch anime too. Well the subs and the dub is awful yet, but getting better ^^ 2, We can buy dvds for the anime shown on our anime channel, and the Ghibli movies for a reasonable price. For example I just bought today a Full Metal Panic! dvd for 8$, which isn't much, because I spend much more for books in a month (they are quite expensive) Anyway, Japanese comapies just can't stop illegal anime downloads. Even the animes produced by Mediaworks get some subs, although they don't show on sites such as Animesuki or FansubTv. |
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| Riiiiight, tell ya what, get back to us when we have a few more Chevy dealerships in Tokyo. Protectionist hypocrisy aside, I wanna know if they're getting their fantasy "revenue lost" numbers the way the MPAA and RIAA get theirs: by figuring that everyone who has downloaded a copy of a movie/song would otherwise have paid full price for the DVD/CD. That's a plainly erroneous assumption. In the case of fansubs, I'd venture to say that 80% the people lining up to buy the dubs of series that were popular fansubs would otherwise have had no knowledge of it at all. They're trying to cut off the most effective foreign advertising tool they have. It's bad business. |
RalonzoOct 24, 2007 6:29 AM
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| they won't be able to stop all fansubs... The internet is a pretty large and they won't be able to enforce it. Some fansubs groups might stop fansubbing but there will always be a groups subbing and releasing it. |
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Iri said: Crystal said: I wish we could get some statistics for all this Japanese anime industry losing money with fansubs. I don't know if we really do hurt them or not (I won't assume anything without stats). You will never see those numbers for a couple of reasons. First of all, the non-Japanese side of the industry is so tight-lipped with their sales numbers that it is almost impossible to figure out how specific titles are actually selling. Now the actual Japanese DVD sales numbers are released regularly and are pretty clear, but it is literally impossible to say "If there had not been illegal releases, we would have sold X copies." Any company that does that is purely speculating. A lot of them assume that every downloaded copy represents a lost sale, when we all know this isn't the case. The economics of a black market are very nontraditional, especially when you have two competing supply curves -- one at the market price and one at zero. Ironically, some titles depend on the hype generated by fansubs/illegal downloads to drive up the licensing cost during negotiation. Naruto was able to charge a fortune for their license because of the overwhelming popularity that had been generated beforehand. If not for that, you would have had a situation similar to the old days when American and other companies had to base their bids on Japanese publicity and hype, which means that Detective Conan would have demanded a higher premium than anything. At the Gonzo panel at Anime Expo two years ago, they were actively hyping their new show Glass Fleet. It was, without a doubt, their big flagship title for the future, at least according to them. It was finally released on DVD in the USA last week, and I would be surprised if it is able to sell a couple of hundred copies nationwide. They might break even, although I doubt it. It was never fansubbed to completion, and I suspect, in this case, it could have only helped the title. It wasn't a good show by any means, yet I don't see how the extra publicity in this case would have hurt. But, in the end, there's no way of really knowing. It's all speculation, on my part as well as theirs. Therein lies the problem. Bing-bong! Nice post. |
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| The only thing I'm worried about is the fansubbing of anime: I hope that they're not so stupid to quit subbing. Come on... This will take years and years! Japan shouldn't have much problems with illegal anime downloads if America doesn't dub them so badly =.= (Okay, there are some exceptions...) I hate dubs, go Japanese! |
| Dutch anime blogger with a love for Ikuhara's antics and proper storytelling. |
| eeh, if i would buy everything, i had to import it from america (there are a few (maybe 20) anime in poland, and like 5 in the Netherlands....)... I mean it cost like 150$ for a series.... !!! thats how much a ps2 costs now :S |
cloudtheclow said: minus-one said: myth720 said: how do the japanese fans pay for the anime they watch on TV? ADS they're paying by watching ads. it's tv's business model. they're making money from ads (roughly speaking). so any tv viewer in japan has all rights to record any tv-show he/she likes cause he/she's "paid" for it by watching ads. and any such viewer can share (has all rights to) such records with friends, for example. real threat for industry would be MASS reproduction; but mass reproduction needs some sort of centralized effort (organization) which is obviously not the case with torrent-distribution (which is decentralized, spontaneous and "unorganized' by its nature). (dvds are another matter...) When I watch the RAWs I watch the ads therefore I'm paying for the anime...maybe if fansubers just left the ads in from the RAWs we could all pay and be happy. if they were worried about losing revenue from the TV ads, they should go after the Japanese who download anime because most of the products/services advertised on tv in Japan probably aren't even available outside their country. So it's either a very poor excuse or not it at all. |
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Marek92 said: eeh, if i would buy everything, i had to import it from america (there are a few (maybe 20) anime in poland, and like 5 in the Netherlands....)... I mean it cost like 150$ for a series.... !!! thats how much a ps2 costs now :S I totally agree (Dutch too over here :P)... If they only reduced the costs just a little, it wouldn't be such a problem. Manga isn't that expensive: anime is... Anime won't be downloaded in big amounts if they lowered the prices in some parts of America. Or just what I said earlier: they should show anime not with dubs, but with subs :) |
| Dutch anime blogger with a love for Ikuhara's antics and proper storytelling. |
nike13 said: Not too surprised about this but to be honest, I don't think buying the dvd sets here in the US are really worth it. I mean, I'm spending x amount of dollars on an anime when all I really want is the subtitles. If subtitles are all you want, then read transcripts. The art, animation, music, and voice acting are all part of the package. |
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| This right after the whole geneon ordeal and everything. There's alot of money to be made by selling subs online in the future, hell I'd try to invest in it now but I'm only 17. We hardly get any legal anime here and the stuff we do get takes a VERY long time to get here (and is sold in 2-3 stores in the 3-4 biggest cities in the country). Now you can order online from the US, but that costs alot and the anime STILL takes a long time to get released even in the US. I do realize that selling the subs online won't solve the issue but it will definitely help alot, and I believe the fansubbing groups will decrease dramatically. |
 Thanks De-Jay for my claim picture : ). |
| They will never be able to stop us. I want to watch something before I buy it. I live in Oklahoma City and the only way I get to watch anime is on adult swim and the internet. I don't get the anime channels, even though I have digital cable. The main sites for anime watching is probably Veoh.com and stage6. people will always be creating new sites and new ways to defeat the system. |
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| ...oh snap.. everything i do is freakin illegal! and the american goverment really dosent give 2 shits about japanese affairs, do they? oh well, if this is enforced we are totally fucked. pardon my french. |
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| I really wonder why they only asked the US? It's a VERY long stretch to say it's all the US' fault, especially since a great number of trackers and fansub sites operate outside of the United States, and the peers on BitTorrent programs are very mixed, no way near enough US IPs vs other IPs to seriously consider the US to be the main culprit. And YouTube is global also, just as many other countries accessing it as the States. Odd! Although we have a pretty lackluster image in the global community right now .. u___u; |
| Japan called, They want their anime back. :P |
| ^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| I square if this ever happens, it's useless to use the computer. |
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| I find it hard to believe the companies are losing WAY to much money on this issue of torrents and such. I think that they make far more then enough on the other merchandising and products to make up for a few missed DVDs. I agree that services like Youtube and Google Video should not allowed to put videos up on there. Specifically the ones that are dubbed. I mean fansubing I respect. It's not easy to sit down and translate the video and paste in the text. They have to work to get that out there for people. It's not like they are selling their services. I don't think that's overly illegal. At least I don't feel it should be. |
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| If they do succeed in doing this(stoppping piracy and fansubs), it won't really affect me much. I always wait for the dvds to come out(I'm willing to support my love for anime). If I really need to see something then I go on Crunchyroll. I can't download and if I could I wouldn't do it because I don't like to(it's a pain and it takes time that I don't have). I don't have to watch something that is new. I won't die. Theres still a lot of anime for me to watch on dvd. |
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| kirAth-shiAue: Great, then watch dvds, but for me who watch ongoings a lot there is no other way ;) |
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| There won't be a way to effectively regulate the internet...its too big. If it was so easy, illegal music downloads would have been stopped by now. |
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| I doubt the Japanese are gong to be able to do anything about it, but if they do at least im safe over here in the UK, ha... |
Ah cheese, the devil's play thing. |
| A few things... There are licensed anime dvds in America that are Japanese w/ English sub, no dub. Like Super Gals! Kotobuki Ran Season 2, they released it straight to box set, no dub. I rented the full season from Netflix and loved it and had to wonder why I watched season 1 in English. Lovless was only released in Japanese. The original Card Captor Sakura (Unlike that Cardcaptors version on WB32 that I watched when I was like 6 or 7) is in Japanese, I know a lot of hentai is in Japanese (I got an anime catalog and it had a secret back section for all your hentai and yaoi needs. XD), and I'm sure there are others... I download fansubs. . . . A lot. XD I'm surprised the government hasn't threatened me yet. Anyways, aside from my downloading (I have fallen in love with Bit Torrent and have been curious, can you download music on it?), if I view the stuff for the things I download and look at the peers. A ton of them are from other countries...Although I don't know which ones because I don't know who's flag is who's. XD I don't want to buy an anime dvd unless it's incredibly cheap (I can't remember the last time I actually went to a store to buy books and dvds...I buy everything online. XD Soo much cheaper, but wait, I guess I did buy books from Barnes and Noble but it was partly cuz I didn't feel like looking at clothes..But you get the point, why spend 25-30 dollars on a dvd w/ 3 or 4 episodes on it when you don't even know if you'll like it or not? Fansubs, watching online, renting dvds, so much better before buying...There have been anime dvds that I bought simply because they were like 2 dollars, and it takes a lot for me to not like a series, and heck, I ended up liking them. And I lent one to a friend, and he totally fell in love with it and wanted it, and he had a movie I wanted, so we swapped dvds, so now he has Serial Experiments Lain: Navi, and I have InuYasha Movie 3: Swords of an Honorable Ruler. (I believe that was one of the names for it. XD) But yeah... There's no way for the government to stop this...There are plenty of ways to get around it, I've heard of them sending out letters saying "3 days..." and all you have to do is burn everything to dvd, or move it to a new hard drive, and then you're set. I don't think the industry is in that much of a pickle...Without fansubs, how will you know if a series is good or not? Wait until it *Possibly* gets licensed? Nahhh. Then you have China, good ol' China (slight sarcasm). They are legally allowed to pirate things. You can spend a ton of money on a licensed set, or you can take some risks and buy a Chinese version. Good luck with that, but still...One time on amazon, I wanted to buy the .hack//SIGN complete collection, I saw there was one for 30 dollars. I was amazed since I'd seen it going for like $150 or something at Best Buy. I bought it, it came and I was surprised that it looked different..3 disks, a ton of episodes on each disk, ect ect. But hey, I didn't care, I thought "Hey, maybe it's special?" and I watched it, I had NO problems with it at all! Worked just as good as the licensed one. :) I was lucky though, eventually I learned of bootlegs and whatnot and learned mine was a bootleg. At first I was like "AHHH! Bootleg!" then I thought it over and was like, well I paid for it, and I'm having no problems with it, I will keep this and continue to rejoice. :D (Yes, I know that's not exactly good. Heck for a while a family member recomended that I buy bootlegs, lol. He's strange...I thought about buying one once because I couldn't afford the real sets since there were 4 sets total, and I'm talking about Fushigi Yuugi: The Mysterious Play fyi...But another family member was like "AHHH! BOOTLEG!" D< and I didn't buy it...I do have morals too though! D<) But yeah...I know I ramble too much, but do ya'll get what I'm saying? In my (unwanted) opinion there's a higher chance of Japan saying "Y'know what. We don't want your country having our anime anymore" than the government being able to completely erase fansubbing and pirating...Just not possible.. |
 Give it your all.... Squueeee! <333 Oguri Shun-sama! *drools* :'D |
Malyrush said: I really wonder why they only asked the US? It's a VERY long stretch to say it's all the US' fault, especially since a great number of trackers and fansub sites operate outside of the United States, and the peers on BitTorrent programs are very mixed, no way near enough US IPs vs other IPs to seriously consider the US to be the main culprit. And YouTube is global also, just as many other countries accessing it as the States. Odd! Although we have a pretty lackluster image in the global community right now .. u___u; Probably cause they sell the most anime dvds/stuff in the US, EU is a stronger economical power then the US currently so I dunno ^^ |
| |
| Im still scared of a day where fansubs etc are completly elimentated, i just hope that never comes... |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| lolXD well this isn't good, but I don't think they'll do anything about it soon~ Personally I don't mind spending money on anime... I just don't like spending as much as your forced to on 2-3 year old series in bad quality condition. Untill distributers start doing things that make sense, or the gov starts chopping people's heads off I think I'll just download=X |
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| Well, if the Japanese government say it's affecting profits, then it's obviously having a negative impact, rather than a positive one (as many fansubbers and their users claim). No one should be entitled to free anime and it's obviously harming the industry. I wouldn't mourn fansubbers, to be honest! Bluesnow said: Untill distributers start doing things that make sense, or the gov starts chopping people's heads off I think I'll just download=X You don't have that right, though. If I was shopping for bread and I found a loaf that wasn't to my standards, should I be allowed steal it? |
CitizenGeekOct 25, 2007 8:48 AM
| If that happens I would DIA |
| OMFG I am dying here. I have such a good idea. But I need millions of dollars to get it off the ground. SON OF A ***** why am I the only person that has thought about how to show anime to users for free, but still retain the advertising dollar. I even have an idea about how to narrow the users areas down so you can even cash in on local area advertising...grrrrrr Why is everyone in the advertising, television, movie, and music industrys complete idiots? I seriously can't be the only one that has thought of this. |
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CitizenGeek said: No one should be entitled to free anime and it's obviously harming the industry. Yup, all we need is for the producers pull it off the airwaves in Japan where people can see it free. Problem solved. Until then as soon as it's broadcast it's a genie out of the bottle. |
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Sandgolem said: OMFG I am dying here. I have such a good idea. But I need millions of dollars to get it off the ground. SON OF A ***** why am I the only person that has thought about how to show anime to users for free, but still retain the advertising dollar. I even have an idea about how to narrow the users areas down so you can even cash in on local area advertising...grrrrrr Why is everyone in the advertising, television, movie, and music industrys complete idiots? I seriously can't be the only one that has thought of this. Because they specialize in advertising and not human relations. This means that they spend more time actually focusing on already well known methods to make money and don't spend any time interacting with fans or coming up with better methods. After the .com bubble in the 90's most company's still shy away from doing anything related to making money on the web. In a perfect world anime company's would offer eps on an itunes type system. But we don't live in a perfect world :(. |
| ^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
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