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Apr 23, 2013 1:10 AM
#1
lagom
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THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
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that ends my guess that Juha Bach is Ichigos father lol, although im waiting for an explanation on the manga on why Zangetsu looks so much like Juha Bach, and too much info on this chapter its a good read with all the technicalities, im gonna read it again and again
Apr 23, 2013 1:19 AM
#2

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A good chapter on how Isshin and Masaki got together.
Isshin is the dad, but that doesn't mean Juha Bach isn't related in some way.

I wonder if this is the end of the flashbacks.
Apr 23, 2013 1:22 AM
#3
lagom
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Raikomyth said:
Isshin is the dad, but that doesn't mean Juha Bach isn't related in some way.


ye i agree with that maybe Juha Bach is just the ancestral grand father of Ichigo just like the story of Yusuke and Raizen on Yu Yu Hakusho anime/manga, so thats why he refer to Ichigo as son too and that familiar resemblance with Zangetsu
Apr 23, 2013 1:27 AM
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j0x said:
Raikomyth said:
Isshin is the dad, but that doesn't mean Juha Bach isn't related in some way.


ye i agree with that maybe Juha Bach is just the ancestral grand father of Ichigo just like the story of Yusuke and Raizen on Yu Yu Hakusho anime/manga, so thats why he refer to Ichigo as son too and that familiar resemblance with Zangetsu
i didnt understend the thing about the string urhara said to ishin can you explain me more clearly?
Apr 23, 2013 1:29 AM
#5
lagom
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elior1 said:
j0x said:
Raikomyth said:
Isshin is the dad, but that doesn't mean Juha Bach isn't related in some way.


ye i agree with that maybe Juha Bach is just the ancestral grand father of Ichigo just like the story of Yusuke and Raizen on Yu Yu Hakusho anime/manga, so thats why he refer to Ichigo as son too and that familiar resemblance with Zangetsu
i didnt understend the thing about the string urhara said to ishin can you explain me more clearly?


i hardly understand too thats why im also waiting for MangaStream's version since their translation are always the best

EDIT:

i think Urahara is saying that he will make Isshin a mix of human and shinigami but more human since the vaccine's ingredient is quincy and human... since the vaccine needs the opposite of a quincy then Ryuken (if i remember his name right) is invalid since his a quincy too, so thats why Isshin is the choice for Masaki there at that time, they are running out of time i can guess that Urahara can use a plain Human being to treat/operate with Masaki but time is not on their side at that time
degApr 23, 2013 1:46 AM
Apr 23, 2013 1:45 AM
#6
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The string is to connect isshin with girl + hollow and it only breaks when she dies.. obviously
Apr 23, 2013 1:46 AM
#7

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Interesting chapter. Did Ichigo go through something like this with his hollowfication too? I can't really remember.
Apr 23, 2013 1:49 AM
#8
lagom
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ClawViper7 said:
Interesting chapter. Did Ichigo go through something like this with his hollowfication too? I can't really remember.


remember white Ichigo (or hollow Ichigo)? that is the hollow fighting over with the normal Ichigo (or black Ichigo) so ye that is an example of Soul Suicide but in the case of Ichigo he defeated the white Ichigo or the hollow Ichigo

i guess Hollowfication acts like schizophrenia it destoys free will and identity of the victim making them wild or unstable sometimes or often times, the concept of fighting inner demons is so schizophrenia
degApr 23, 2013 1:54 AM
Apr 23, 2013 2:12 AM
#9

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ClawViper7 said:
Interesting chapter. Did Ichigo go through something like this with his hollowfication too? I can't really remember.


For Ichigo it was diffrent because he is a son of quincy/hollow mother + shinigami/human father, so it seems that he doesnt need a "vaccine" like his mother but can maintain balance himself.
Apr 23, 2013 3:43 AM
lagom
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this chapter also confirms on how Isshin lost his Shinigami powers once a upon a time, from reading again this chapter its almost saying that Isshin have become a human until Masaki dies, i hope this flashback continues until they show how Masaki died because Masaki is confirmed to be a Vaizard too so she is suppose to be more powerful than ever
Apr 23, 2013 4:01 AM

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j0x said:
this chapter also confirms on how Isshin lost his Shinigami powers once a upon a time, from reading again this chapter its almost saying that Isshin have become a human until Masaki dies, i hope this flashback continues until they show how Masaki died because Masaki is confirmed to be a Vaizard too so she is suppose to be more powerful than ever


But didn't he said that Isshin would act as a kind of 'balance' so that Masaki can have a normal life? I doubt Masaki will have much power at all because of Isshin limiting it.
Apr 23, 2013 4:03 AM

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What a good chapter we got some insight to a quite a few things
How Urahara cures/deals with hollowfication
Why Isshin lost his powers
Why Isshin can't go back to Soul Society

Also how i see the reishi string is that, its a tunnel between the two of them connecting them with isshin's body being a constant medicine keeping the hollow inside Masaki dormant and in check so it doesn't run rampant and kill her.



Apr 23, 2013 4:08 AM
lagom
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Scheherazade1007 said:
j0x said:
this chapter also confirms on how Isshin lost his Shinigami powers once a upon a time, from reading again this chapter its almost saying that Isshin have become a human until Masaki dies, i hope this flashback continues until they show how Masaki died because Masaki is confirmed to be a Vaizard too so she is suppose to be more powerful than ever


But didn't he said that Isshin would act as a kind of 'balance' so that Masaki can have a normal life? I doubt Masaki will have much power at all because of Isshin limiting it.


i see, im gonna read again this chapter when MangaStream version is up

EDIT:

im wrong Masaki although she undergo Hollowfication does not mean she is a Vaizard since a Vaizard is the Hollowfication of Shinigamis, while Hollowfication of Quincies do not have a name yet since Masaki is the first
degApr 23, 2013 4:32 AM
Apr 23, 2013 4:34 AM

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Now we know how Isshin lost his powers. So I'm guessing that if Misaki dies then he gets his power as a Shinigami again, right?
This is a signature.
Apr 23, 2013 5:03 AM
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ShiraKiryuu said:
Now we know how Isshin lost his powers. So I'm guessing that if Misaki dies then he gets his power as a Shinigami again, right?

Um...that's pretty much what happened when he avenged her death by getting his powers back and turning into a shinigami and killing the hollow that killed her in chapter 187.
Apr 23, 2013 5:28 AM

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That chapter doesn't proof Ishin is Ichigo's dad, maybe Masaki was unfaithful with Isshin and Ichigo was born from that.
Apr 23, 2013 5:32 AM

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I lol @ the faces when Isshin agreed quickly.
I Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!!
Apr 23, 2013 5:34 AM

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that last page ♥ :D
Apr 23, 2013 6:16 AM

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And so starts a beautiful romance :D

Isshin is BA! Love how he looked like when he was young :)
And how he immediately agreed :)

So can we conclude from this chapter that Masaki was a Vizard quincy????
Apr 23, 2013 6:20 AM

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tsubasalover said:
I lol @ the faces when Isshin agreed quickly.

Hahaha me to lol.
Apr 23, 2013 6:24 AM

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Another great chapter. I seriously love how Isshin is so laid-back. Last page is just pure gold. Masaki x Isshin, too awesome <3 Now that explains why Urahara and Isshin are so close. To think Masaki was such an important character instead of just being Ichigo's mother.
Apr 23, 2013 6:44 AM
エクスカリバアアアア
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Very interesting. Now it is clear why Isshin can live as a normal human without his shinigami powers. A very special gigai from Urahara.
But now it has to be revealed why it took time after Masaki's death for Isshin's power to come back. Because she died when Ichigo was 6 or so an Isshin got his powers back at the beginning of the Arrancar Arc. That are nearly ten years. Can't wait to know.
And poor Ryuken is person without function in this chapter ^^
Apr 23, 2013 7:02 AM

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My grand theory about final battle where Masaki and Isshin have to use their most powerful techniques to fix things went to drain. Ryuuken was just there as a decoration without anything to do (expected him to shoot Masaki or something). Either way the outcome is as I predicted more or less. Isshin went and sacrificed himself in order to act as seal over Masaki Hollowfication.

Because Isshin became Shinigami + Human and Masaki is Quincy + Hollow we get Ichigo - Shinigami + Human + Quincy + Hollow in a balanced form. How did that work before this arc?

Ichigo was most of the time shinigami + human and was in constant conflict with his hollow side right? Did that little Quincy part affect him in any past battles? Was it his hollow mask that acted as blut to defend him from mortal wound or being cut in half by Aizen?

Remember the time when Ichigo and Isshida were hunting hollows? Isshida said something about colour ribbons and Ichigo grasped the idea of seeing them instantly (Rukia was shocked). Could his Quincy power be the reason why he got that idea so fast? Was the whole Quincy blood reason why Ichigo could awaken his Shinigami powers (ribbons in his inner world directed him to Zangetsu hilt)?

Urahara talk made me all dizzy and confused >_<

Y u so little fanservice? Shame Kubo put so little of nude Masaki T_T Confirmed that Isshin is total lolicon, pedo and big breasts fan. Next chapter if flashback doesn't end She might even blush in her inner world before they both wake up.

Few more weeks and we will see some silly looking Ichigo faces :D
SleepnDreamnApr 23, 2013 7:18 AM
Apr 23, 2013 7:51 AM

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The dumb face everyone made when Isshin agreed to do it haha


lindsayzzz said:
Masaki x Isshin, too awesome <3
Apr 23, 2013 8:42 AM

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wow very nice chapter. Still not sure if Isshin is Ichigo's dad (i hope he is)
Apr 23, 2013 8:43 AM

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Gotta admit, this flashback arc is better than any Naruto has offered.
Apr 23, 2013 8:46 AM

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caledon said:
ShiraKiryuu said:
Now we know how Isshin lost his powers. So I'm guessing that if Misaki dies then he gets his power as a Shinigami again, right?

Um...that's pretty much what happened when he avenged her death by getting his powers back and turning into a shinigami and killing the hollow that killed her in chapter 187.


that sort of make sense

Then I guess we just have to wait how all of this will explain about Ichigo true origin
Apr 23, 2013 9:40 AM
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Badass chapter. Loved it. Thank you, Kubo.

5/5
"I... don't need anything else...if you don't need anything else."
Apr 23, 2013 9:52 AM

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Barion-Zara said:
And so starts a beautiful romance :D

Isshin is BA! Love how he looked like when he was young :)
And how he immediately agreed :)

So can we conclude from this chapter that Masaki was a Vizard quincy????


Haha, ikr? X3

Isshin was so cool on that past page. <3
💕
Apr 23, 2013 9:56 AM

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Barion-Zara said:

So can we conclude from this chapter that Masaki was a Vizard quincy????

She only has the reiatsu of the hollow bounty inside her. The Isshin's powers stooped the hollowification inside Masaki.

The vizards learnt to control and to use the hollowification.
Apr 23, 2013 10:20 AM

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I do agree the story was great, but doesn't anyone here think that it was too much predictable???
The fact that the first time Isshin was showed as a shinigami and Urahara mentioned about his powers coming back and that Masaki got infected by hollowfication disease(a new contagious disease... Oh great..!) in the last chapter made this chapter's story quite a bit obvious....!

Still, it was quite hilarious to see those faces when Isshin agreed to the plan just like that....! :D
Apr 23, 2013 10:26 AM

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Maybe we can just drop the Juha Bach - Ichigo relationship? This chapter confirmed that Isshin is Ichigo's dad. Stop it before it gets more ridiculous.

I wonder if Urahara will be successful though. Cuz Masaki died, maybe his theory weren't enough?
Apr 23, 2013 10:36 AM

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Apr 2013
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-MgZ_ said:
Maybe we can just drop the Juha Bach - Ichigo relationship? This chapter confirmed that Isshin is Ichigo's dad. Stop it before it gets more ridiculous.

I wonder if Urahara will be successful though. Cuz Masaki died, maybe his theory weren't enough?






Masaki died when the Grand Fischer attacked.... What has it got to do with hollowfication???
Apr 23, 2013 10:56 AM

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Amazing chapter with multiple questions answered
5/5
lindsayzzz said:
Masaki x Isshin, too awesome <3
Apr 23, 2013 11:02 AM

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-MgZ_ said:
Maybe we can just drop the Juha Bach - Ichigo relationship? This chapter confirmed that Isshin is Ichigo's dad.

Why ? this chapter only explains how Isshin lost his powers and why Isshin could not go back to the Soul Society.
When Grand fisher Killed Masaki, Isshin wasn't near to her. Maybe the link between Masaki and Isshin could extend in all the Karakura Town.
Apr 23, 2013 11:20 AM

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tsubasalover said:
I lol @ the faces when Isshin agreed quickly.

I know right xD
Apr 23, 2013 11:21 AM

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WAHHHHHHH THE ENDING WAS SO GOOD :) :) I can't wait to see their little romance ^.^ SOO CUTE :) :)
Apr 23, 2013 11:31 AM
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Kisuke explains more about hollowfication and Isshin was willing to lose his shinigami powers for her.

Also lol at their faces.
Apr 23, 2013 11:38 AM
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-MgZ_ said:
Maybe we can just drop the Juha Bach - Ichigo relationship? This chapter confirmed that Isshin is Ichigo's dad. Stop it before it gets more ridiculous.

I wonder if Urahara will be successful though. Cuz Masaki died, maybe his theory weren't enough?


There is no reason to drop the relationship, because we still don't know who are the parents of Misaki. So there is a great chance that Juha Bach is grandfather of Ichigo.
Apr 23, 2013 11:54 AM

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Dang more revelations about hollowfication. Now I want to see what happens next before Masaki dies.
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Apr 23, 2013 1:39 PM

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Hades-kun said:
-MgZ_ said:
Maybe we can just drop the Juha Bach - Ichigo relationship? This chapter confirmed that Isshin is Ichigo's dad. Stop it before it gets more ridiculous.

I wonder if Urahara will be successful though. Cuz Masaki died, maybe his theory weren't enough?


There is no reason to drop the relationship, because we still don't know who are the parents of Misaki. So there is a great chance that Juha Bach is grandfather of Ichigo.


More like (Great) Grandfather. Juha is as old as Yamamoto probably or near that. Juha Bach is not Ichigo father. He is his ancestor from Ichigo mother side. OLD Ancestor.
Ichigo was completely unaware that his mother was Quincy and that he inherited some of that power. That is what Juha meant saying "born in darkness".

Next time Ichigo is facing Juha Bach we will learn more about him and the whole Quincy thing. Isshin probably doesn't have all the answers :>

I want to know who was the dead shinigami used to create Whitey. Hope we get that info sometime soon.
Apr 23, 2013 1:54 PM

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Or maybe Juha Bach isn't his real name....for all we know his real name could be Kurosaki something, which would explain why Ichigo's zangetsu kinda looks like him.

Oh well I'm sure we'll get an explanation once Juha comes for him.

Liked the chapter, especially Isshin's laid back response and Urahara/Ryuken's face reaction

I wonder if next ch will be the end of the flashback :-/
Apr 23, 2013 2:22 PM

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Hades-kun said:
-MgZ_ said:
Maybe we can just drop the Juha Bach - Ichigo relationship? This chapter confirmed that Isshin is Ichigo's dad. Stop it before it gets more ridiculous.

I wonder if Urahara will be successful though. Cuz Masaki died, maybe his theory weren't enough?


There is no reason to drop the relationship, because we still don't know who are the parents of Misaki. So there is a great chance that Juha Bach is grandfather of Ichigo.

Maybe Juha Bach knew for the hollow inside Masaki and would create a new type of Quincys : Quincy-fullbringer-vizard. Maybe Juha bach used his own son in a experiment.
Apr 23, 2013 3:05 PM

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Forgetfulness said:
Can someone clearly explain again how Isshin is supposed to help Masaki?

I know he just has to live with her and stuff, but what's all this stuff about human/shinigami and quincy/hollow?

To stop the hollowification inside Masaki, Isshin has to link Masaki's soul and the hollow inside her with his own reiatsu (his powers of shinigami). the hollowifaction created a imbalance inside Masaki, then Isshin has to become a human/shinigami (by using the Kisuke's special gigaï created from a human soul), who is the opposite of Masaki (quincy/hollow) and to be linked with her (by using his reiatsu of shinigami) to recreate the balance inside Masaki.
Apr 23, 2013 3:06 PM

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Forgetfulness said:
Can someone clearly explain again how Isshin is supposed to help Masaki?

I know he just has to live with her and stuff, but what's all this stuff about human/shinigami and quincy/hollow?
basically there are 4 types of energies(hollow,human,quincy,shinigami). When a soul hollowfies you need balance it out by fusing all 4 energies together. When the visards hollowfied kisuke balanced them out using a vaccine made from human and quincy energy. in order to balance out misaki they need to infuse her with human and shinigami energy. In misaki's case she wont be able to controll her inner hollow so instead of a vaccine they are going to put isshin in a special gigai made from humans souls and kisuke is going to stich their souls together in order to keep her soul balanced.
Apr 23, 2013 3:23 PM
lagom
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Jan 2009
107201
just finished reading MangaStream version

so Ichigo is 4 race in one since Masaki is a Quincy/Hollow while Isshin is a Shinigami/Human

Inarius said:

I wonder if next ch will be the end of the flashback :-/


i hope not i want to see how Masaki died so that Isshin will get his Shinigami powers back to avenge her
Apr 23, 2013 3:30 PM

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Good chapter, explained a lot, tho I still don't know how Juha blends in all of this.

Can't wait to see that explained as well, so we can get back to fighting.
Apr 23, 2013 3:39 PM

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This chapter sort of infringes on the concept of shinigami and hollows being two sides of the same coin as previously explained during the arrancar arc. How come shinigamification(hollows becoming arrancar) doesn't require all this soul balancing? Hollows like Starrk can naturally cross the boundary between souls just by being powerful enough to remove their mask, and don't require human & quincy energy to stabilize them. Fullbringers which are part human and part hollow don't require any shinigami or quincy energy to balance them out either.....
Apr 23, 2013 3:51 PM

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I just love these backstory chapters about Isshin. He's such a cool character, he just hasn't had the chance to show it off, because he barely had any screentime at all until now. He's goofy, he's a bit childish, but he's also very responsible and his apperance in the last page was worthy of a true hero - Masaki's personal hero. =)

Now, this chapter finally explained all of Ichigos weird powers. Human, Quincy, Hollow and Shinigami all mixed together, oh boy, poor Ichigo. xD
I hope Isshin will become a bigger role altogether now and will probably fight alongside the Shinigami. I'd love to see that, he knows many of the Shinigami from his time as a captain and if all his powers have returned, he should be able to stand his ground pretty well.

It has been a long time since Bleach has gotten me interested into a character this much.
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