| Before going to ask in a more detailed, I shall explain about what is a Character Evil Counterpart (Basing myself of TVTropes), Note, this details will be resumed in the Tl;Dr section. -----------------------------TL;DR--------------------------------------------------- Basically, an evil version of a character, generally same moves but with darker colors, twisted or opposite version of the character's morality or ideals, and generally related to the past of the character, be a long-lost brother, a pupil of the same master, or just embodiment of nightmares. Well, you got the idea. Have cooler attacks and makes the MC look like a idiot. It feels akward for me to bring this on an anime topic even if I actually use many Video Games examples, so here is a list of the best examples Evil Counterparts/Evil Twins I found during my short time of anime experience. So, question time! 1.Do you believe that it is good for a plot? An Evil Counterpart/Evil Twin does create the conflict between the ideals or it makes a change of a view for the character? Do you like the coincidence that, if this character is just a simple what-if, that the a certain plot occurrence could actually BRING him to existence as the true MC? 2.Do you believe that the Dark-Version always has the most appeals? 3.Do YOU prefer Dark? List of examples through Fighting Games/Anime and Manga. It indirectly contains Spoilers Well, my first attempt to create a topic for discussion, and sorry for any mistakes, this one is rushed. By the way, I would like to see people's post to fill the list. I don't have much knowledge on anime, so I would like to you guys be able to help me. |
012yArthur0Apr 13, 2013 1:28 PM
  |
| By the way, if there's any missing information or any misunderstanding towards the explanation, please post it. |
|
| Because many think that evil=cool. |
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
NeoAnkara said: Because many think that evil=cool. It's hard to not to do it when the authors wants to do make them do it. Especially that the differences of the techniques/attacks or even way of thinking of the MC just tries to be cooler or downright more powerful/efficient. MC shoots bolts? the Evil-Twin/Counterpart has one that is black colored that generally curbstomps from the MC. Is agile, flexive and skilled? Evil-Twin/Counterpart also has it, but it generally does more amusing acrobacies or seems to be even more skilled. Idealistic of being a Hero? Evil-Twin/Counterpart is just a hedonist that does whatever he pleases, while looking cool. Also, it may be a stretch to say, but Darker Colors, is generally more amusing, as it contrast with the visual that we see from the characters. No wonder why Black is such main color for Evil. |
|
| I don't really care much about evil counterparts, if they're there, then they're there. Just another way to fill the antagonist role, unless the anime has the defeat = friendship trope as well then... eh... I don't really care for evil twins either, I usually feel it as some cheap plot twist. "AND THE MASTERMIND BEHIND THIS IS... YOUR EVIL TWIN BROTHER YOU NEVER KNEW EXISTED!" Now if the evil counterpart/twin is actually the same MC from a parallel time/world/dimension, now that'd be fun... although the last show I watched to do that was pretty lame. As for their appeal. NeoAnkara said: Because many think that evil=cool. The bad guys always get the best powers and shit. |
Paul said: Why is the bad guy always have power one level above MC?NeoAnkara said: Because many think that evil=cool. The bad guys always get the best powers and shit. |
| Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
Paul said: I don't really care much about evil counterparts, if they're there, then they're there. Just another way to fill the antagonist role, unless the anime has the defeat = friendship trope as well then... eh... I don't really care for evil twins either, I usually feel it as some cheap plot twist. "AND THE MASTERMIND BEHIND THIS IS... YOUR EVIL TWIN BROTHER YOU NEVER KNEW EXISTED!" Now if the evil counterpart/twin is actually the same MC from a parallel time/world/dimension, now that'd be fun... although the last show I watched to do that was pretty lame. As for their appeal. NeoAnkara said: Because many think that evil=cool. The bad guys always get the best powers and shit. I mostly agree with you, it can be pretty annoying when not executed properly. As a rule, they show up with barely any foreshadowing and their part could be better executed by any other villain anyway (e.g. Rave Master, which I really enjoyed apart from the mostly generic bad guys in the later half). |
| So... much... text... why... ...yeah, I'm only reading the questions. 012yArthur0 said: Plot twists, when done believably, are always a good thing. This is just another plot twist / surprise, and one that happens so rarely that it's not really worth discussing generally like this. Do you like the coincidence that, if this character is just a simple what-if, that the a certain plot occurrence could actually BRING him to existence as the true MC? 012yArthur0 said: "Always"? Of course not. Nothing is "always". Do you believe that the Dark-Version always has the most appeals? In any case, it depends on how well the character is characterized. Usually protagonists are the most dynamic and round characters, so they're the ones we care for the most. "dark" or "evil" versions of characters tend not to be very dynamic because their purpose is to stay "dark" or "evil", so they do so. Generally speaking, it's unfortunately a bit rare to find villains characterized well enough to actually care for the character. |
| Haru/Lucia from Rave was epic! I wouldn't go as far as saying the counterpart has more appeal, but rather they bring out the best, and worst in each other through thought-provoking words/actions which they can both relate to (such as age, lifestyle, ideals, strength, etc). Which ultimately makes the story and rivalry that much more interesting. |
| The only one I can think of is that movie villain from DBZ who looks exactly like Son but they aren't related. And of course, Metal Gear Solid, but that's no anime. |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
| For the first question, if it works, then why not. There's not much to say if they exist solely to oppose the good counterpart's goals, but if there's also some moral and ethics crap going on, then it might get interesting. For the second question, there's a certain allure to the darker side of the spectrum. I'm not too sure myself, but it might have something to do with how grittier and edgier things in the media have gotten nowadays. That and the evil counterparts seem more stylish for some reason. I don't really give any special attention to evil counterparts, but I do find it interesting when the evil counterpart makes some stupid amount of sense in their crazy speeches about their twisted philosophy. It's one of the reasons why Kotomine from Fate is so interesting to me. Sometimes it makes for some moral ambiguity in an anime, but other times if the evil counterpart was seriously supposed to be a straight up evil person, then it makes me want to pick apart the writing to see what went wrong. |
| i can think of a few twins that are enemies an my favs among them are Aspros an Deuteros these 2 gave of of my fav fights in the manga an it was sad seeing one brother dying at the hands of the other |
 |
| It really has no bearing on the plot itself. To say that it will hinder the plot, or that it will add to it, is really irrelevant. As with any other plot element, if it is pulled off it will add to it, if it is not, it will subtract. And whether they are cooler or not, it's really up to personal preference. For me, I always cheer for the good guy. And even if they look cool, and I happen to like them, I still don't want them to win (obviously). As to appeal...I guess? But as I've stated above, it's really up to personal preference, but generally...I think yes, it does have more appeal, for obvious reasons. |
The forums are dark, and full of ego. |
| Reminds me of Tales of the Abyss...even if their situation is a bit more complicated. |
| Made a Tl;Dr part for the ones that doesn't want a explanation. Jovoo said: It really has no bearing on the plot itself. To say that it will hinder the plot, or that it will add to it, is really irrelevant. As with any other plot element, if it is pulled off it will add to it, if it is not, it will subtract. And whether they are cooler or not, it's really up to personal preference. For me, I always cheer for the good guy. And even if they look cool, and I happen to like them, I still don't want them to win (obviously). As to appeal...I guess? But as I've stated above, it's really up to personal preference, but generally...I think yes, it does have more appeal, for obvious reasons. Yeah, that's subjective. If the plot focuses on character development, fighting your evil countepart is just downright "Dark" Version can put the MC's personality in the test, and if it means victory, it means that either he "Understands/Knows his evil nature, and try to comprehend it" or he "Surpassed his Evil persona, not being scared anymore". But this kind of characters are surprisingly common in side materials - mostly on videogames -. But about coolness factor, I always thought that the authors always used this new character to show how badass/strong they really wanted to the MC be at first, as sometimes it can go to broken levels, or just want to say that Evil is just Cooler. About fan appeal, is just a basic thing that I thought. Cooler Characters = More fandom, right? |
|
| ^ Yeah, cooler characters do create a bigger fandoom. The point is that as with any other plot element, it depends on the author's execution. Whether this "evil character" is the lynch pin of the story, or is the story's downfall is all up to the person writing the damn thing. |
| The forums are dark, and full of ego. |
Jovoo said: ^ Yeah, cooler characters do create a bigger fandoom. The point is that as with any other plot element, it depends on the author's execution. Whether this "evil character" is the lynch pin of the story, or is the story's downfall is all up to the person writing the damn thing. But do you like this kind of plot device? |
|
012yArthur0 said: Jovoo said: ^ Yeah, cooler characters do create a bigger fandoom. The point is that as with any other plot element, it depends on the author's execution. Whether this "evil character" is the lynch pin of the story, or is the story's downfall is all up to the person writing the damn thing. But do you like this kind of plot device? As I've said, I'm indifferent. I happen to like those characters, but they do not make or brake the story for me. If a plot has that device in it, it will not make me love/hate the anime because of it. There are people that it would, but we are talking about taste then. At any rate, darker characters are cooler, it's just how the cookie crumbles. |
| The forums are dark, and full of ego. |
| I think Shiro from Deadman Wonderland sort of applies to this Since she seems to be very kind to Ganta and likes to play |
 |
| Rushed? are you kidding me? You have more text in your post than your average thread. Well like every answer I give it ultimately depends on the anime, depends on the execution. However I do like the this plot device if it isn't black and white. Copying a character and dubbing him evil is just lazy character design. I'll give the example of Trigun. You have Vash, Wolfwood and Knives. 2 of these are awesome and one of them is boring. Knives is pretty much the template for an evil twin and is also my answer to your second question, NO! Wolfwood on the other hand is a lot like Vash, I would even call their relation brotherly. But they don't differ on all levels just on some very fundamental aspects. Which makes their relation so interesting. Even though Vash and Wolfwood are much more alike than Vash and Knives, Wolfwood feels unique while Knives feels a cheap copy of Vash painted black. I think following any trope template is lazy writing. I like it when relationships have elements or those tropes but don't follow the exact template. |
Riiken said: Rushed? are you kidding me? You have more text in your post than your average thread. Well like every answer I give it ultimately depends on the anime, depends on the execution. However I do like the this plot device if it isn't black and white. Copying a character and dubbing him evil is just lazy character design. I'll give the example of Trigun. You have Vash, Wolfwood and Knives. 2 of these are awesome and one of them is boring. Knives is pretty much the template for an evil twin and is also my answer to your second question, NO! Wolfwood on the other hand is a lot like Vash, I would even call their relation brotherly. But they don't differ on all levels just on some very fundamental aspects. Which makes their relation so interesting. Even though Vash and Wolfwood are much more alike than Vash and Knives, Wolfwood feels unique while Knives feels a cheap copy of Vash painted black. I think following any trope template is lazy writing. I like it when relationships have elements or those tropes but don't follow the exact template. Actually, it was. That's why it is so disorganized. Just memorized the links, burned-fingers-speed BBC code typing. The post entire size is just an explanation of the said discussion topic, as I made an entire Tl;Dr part just for this. But yeah, it's pretty damn big >_< And that's true, making him evil with a similar appearance is lazy, but what I really like about those "counterparts" or "evil versions" is not the difference, but the semblance. It's fun and interesting to see (and it's even lampshaded sometimes) that what kind of event it had to happen that could make the MC exactly like the Evil Version, or Vice-Versa. But your last phrase intrigues me. I never really saw a character being a complete template of a trope, since some characters create the trope, like, for example, Flying Bricks = Superman. Unless that's some really cheap knock-off of an another character. |
|
Yea, you're right. I suppose I meant a blatant use of a trope to the point where you can't describe a character as anything other than said trope. I think this is why so many people dislike tsunderes because so many tsunderes are only that. Unless you're into tsunderes the whole routine gets old and annoying real fast. But when you create a character that has many tsundere traits but also has other types of behavior and characteristics you hear no one complaining.  |
Riiken said: Yea, you're right. I suppose I meant a blatant use of a trope to the point where you can't describe a character as anything other than said trope. I think this is why so many people dislike tsunderes because so many tsunderes are only that. Unless you're into tsunderes the whole routine gets old and annoying real fast. But when you create a character that has many tsundere traits but also has other types of behavior and characteristics you hear no one complaining. Dat Eyes. But yeah, I think that's what it calls a Rounded Shape Character. It's very hard to create one, especially that if you don't know what you doing, you just creating a character who's personality is to be Out-Of-Character. Like Inori from Guilty Crown. No matter how you try to understand her, she just flips personality all the time. |
|
Alexx_ said: I think Shiro from Deadman Wonderland sort of applies to this Since she seems to be very kind to Ganta and likes to play ...Ok, added to the list. On-Topic: Do you have any favorite characters that has one of these traits? Be the normal or Evil version? |
012yArthur0Apr 13, 2013 1:29 PM
|
| Kougami Shinya and Makishima Shougo |
 |
More topics from this board
» Has using MAL made you enjoy anime less?Dragevard - 8 hours ago |
17 |
by Ricchan__
»»
3 minutes ago |
|
» Will only watching anime will make your taste in anime worse?thewiru - 4 hours ago |
12 |
by Sensual_Yuri_69
»»
11 minutes ago |
|
» Best anime of 2025?RealClutch - Oct 6 |
29 |
by thewiru
»»
17 minutes ago |
|
» Anime Dopplegangersslimeco - 33 minutes ago |
2 |
by slimeco
»»
22 minutes ago |
|
» What's up with the fad of waifus with big brain and big chest?Catalano - Sep 29 |
31 |
by RainyEvenings
»»
23 minutes ago |