The Flowers of Evil
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| Lol'd on the amount of comments this thread has. Just wow. I'll give this show one more chance. |
| Loved the atmosphere, will watch. |
TheDrifter said: so many pages. probably lots of complaining. is the art not enough "kawaii" for you guys? Exactly. |
| I was really impressed with this first episode, but god damn I am surprised by how much hate this show is getting. Anyway, the loose rotoscoped character designs, the backgrounds, the interesting camera angles, the natural voice acting style, the sound design all total gold in my opinion. It's quite refreshing to see a new show that challenges the medium like this. Change and originality can be a good thing guys. |
Maelis said: I agree, but it is what it is. It'll be interesting to see how the rating changes when it finishes airing and all those 1's stop counting.But if you got some SWAG then ok, just leave peacefully, don't go rating an anime just by 1 episode and leave, it is the most stupid thing I have ever seen! |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
Maelis said: Aku no Hana go to the main point right away Huh? But nothing happened in the episode...... |
Grade 8 Math Teacher .  In Post #1544 eminagnam wrote: I laughed when Nakamura called her teacher "dung beetle." I am so happy to see somebody using the translation "dung beetle". What Nakamura actually said was "kusomushiga". ( くそむしが / 糞虫が ) In effect, she was referring to him as a "kusomushi". (糞虫) That made him angry. Here is the Japanese Wikipedia article about 糞虫: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B3%9E%E8%99%AB See above for a photo of one. Search Google Images for 糞虫 and you can see a lot of great pictures of them. There is more than one possible translation of 糞 (kuso). There is more than one possible translation of 虫 (mushi). Take your pick. That teacher deserved the nickname cuz he was so insensitive he announced in public she got the lowest score. As far as I know, kusomushi are hardworking and beneficial to the natural environment and they don't insult or abuse people. Quite a number of people have said that Nakamura is crazy. If you watch Episode 1 really, really carefully, can you in fact see any sign that she is crazy? Basically, she is a typical grade 8 girl who doesn't like Math. In fact, I think that she handled the whole episode well. It was the Math teacher who (1) was a total emotional abuser (2) nearly got violent. Also, what kind of things do you think happened later on in the staff room? We'll see how Nakamura behaves in Episode 2. I see her as having a lot of character and inner strength. Also, don't dismiss her level of intelligence based on her midterm exam score. Quite often, highly-gifted students get tuned out of conventional courses. |
okanaganApr 10, 2013 7:10 PM
okanagan said: Grade 8 Math Teacher . In Post #1544 eminagnam wrote: I laughed when Nakamura called her teacher "dung beetle." I am so happy to see somebody using the translation "dung beetle". What Nakamura actually said was "kusomushiga". ( くそむしが / 糞虫が ) In effect, she was referring to him as a "kusomushi". (糞虫) That made him angry. Here is the Japanese Wikipedia article about 糞虫: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%B3%9E%E8%99%AB See above for a photo of one. Search Google Images for 糞虫 and you can see a lot of great pictures of them. There is more than one possible translation of 糞 (kuso). There is more than one possible translation of 虫 (mushi). Take your pick. That teacher deserved the nickname cuz he was so insensitive he announced in public she got the lowest score. As far as I know, kusomushi are hardworking and beneficial to the natural environment and they don't insult or abuse people. Yeah, I knew she had called him by that meaning. Perhaps I should've said "Shitty bug" or "A$$hole." |
| Let me start by saying I haven't read the manga nor did I know anything about it before watching this. I didn't mind the art so much (at first) since I thought it fit well with the overall mood of the episode. This series seems to be going toward a psychological thriller from what I can tell (like Evangelion style), so I thought it fit well. It seems very interesting so I'm looking forward to this series. I kinda wish I hadn't read the MAL summary but whatever. Now after reading some of the comments here, I was disappointed to find out that the art style from the manga is very different. After seeing the comparison, I really wish they would've stuck to the source material better in this aspect. I wish I didn't know it was like that so I could have been blissfully ignorant. I may read the manga after the series is over but frankly I haven't had much time lately so we'll see |
| -Nothing can stay unchanged. Even so, can you still keep on loving this place? -Be still my soul; when change and tears are past, all safe and blessed we shall meet at last. |
| I was disappointed to find out that the art style from the manga is very different. It is clear that the major departure from the manga art style is one huge experiment. It is not just the rotoscoping, but a whole lot of things that they are doing. After one or two more episodes we will probably be sure whether or not this is a failed experiment. Given all of the various articulate concerns that people have mentioned, I am giving it 50/50 at this point. If it DOES fail, I will keep watching it But that is just because I like the manga quite a lot and I enjoy seeing the story repeated. |
Relcee said: People are probably thinking that the animation style and the first episode's plot are very taboo, and it is. I guess some people will be fascinated by this show, and some will down right hate it. I'm craving the realism of the animation style, and the plot in the first episode seems to hint a really deep plot (I hadn't read the manga). It's so taboo, but it isn't a boring/ uninteresting kind of taboo. Can't wait for the next episode! I also agree with you. The animation and character models are... very unique, but they do have a consistent aesthetic to them. Yes, the character proportions seem off mainly because they are going for some kind of desired effect, which may be more evident later on. Then again, I haven't read the source material. What does bother me is the faceless portions, especially when they zoom out. I don't mind body andn facial features that are more realistic, but it bothers me when a character comes from the background to the foreground and their face just magically appears... |
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| 1/10 Dropped Absolutely appalling. This is a disgrace to animators everywhere. |
| So if you don't like the art and animation of this anime, you have bad taste and like moeshit. |
Venuduck said: So if you don't like the art and animation of this anime, you have bad taste and like moeshit. Ignore the little minority of trolls, majority as u can notice dislike this adaption, not for the story but for the rotoscoping crap, clearly this animation studio don't have much experience on this kind of animation as we can see. I repeat, better if they have made a dorama in the first place. |
Fnights said: Venuduck said: So if you don't like the art and animation of this anime, you have bad taste and like moeshit. Ignore the little minority of trolls, majority as u can notice dislike this adaption, not for the story but for the rotoscoping crap, clearly this animation studio don't have much experience on this kind of animation as we can see. I repeat, better if they have made a dorama in the first place. liking this anime=trolls? cool story, bro. |
| In 9/10 cases, the worst thing about an anime is its fandom. |
| I really rather enjoyed this. The only thing that I didn't like was the OP - that song just didn't fit the mood of the show. Everything else felt spot-on, though. The ED theme was particularly good; it's the first time I've come across an OP or ED theme which I would gladly listen to outside of its used context. My favourite film is Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings (1978), which also uses rotoscoping. As such, the style used here comes across to me as neither some newfangled idea, a misguided attempt at being different nor as something completely foreign and jarring. Personally, I felt it worked really well with the atmosphere that Nagahama appears to be trying to achieve. I'm definitely looking forward to the next episodes. It should be interesting. |
| Well, I was suprised with Aku no Hana. It was... different... from usual animes, which doesn't automatically mean that it was bad. Some of my impressions: - First though that came to my mind: "How do characters look like, did someone took a shots of real persons and badly traced their lines?" Guess I nailed the definition of rotoscoping (I didn't know about it until I checked this thread). - Continuing previous bullet, why do characters lose their faces when they're away from camera? In real world, one can still see main facial features (eyes, nose, mouth) of people standing 50-100 meters away, if he doesn't have eyesight problems. Also, isn't rotoscoping supposed to have fluid movements? - There is huge difference between background and characters; it looks like somebody took a photo of real places with some filters and just put animated characters on them. It's easiest to spot if you check the difference between background and character texture quality. - So, the first episode shows us the daily life of main character. Little slow, yeah, nothing special, but slow episodes like this can be a good buildup for the story. Because first 1-2 episodes are always intro, it's too early to call the quality of whole anime based on that 1 or 2 episode. Art-wise, only anime I can somewhat compare Aku no Hana to is Golden Boy. And Golden Boy looked much better. I've not seen the other animes which include rotoscoping so I cannot compare much; I'm not even sure if rotoscoping was used in Golden Boy. I'll stick with it for a while. Despite its flaws (which are bearable), Aku no Hana deserves a chance. 3/5 for Episode 1. |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
| That was so terrible. Barely anything happened in the episode at all, they mainly kept panning in on the nice background scenery, but who could blame them with those awful character blobs. The quality compares to someone drawing stick figures on scenery paintings. Dropped. Now back to my "moeshit" |
LaughingLapras said: I thought you were being sarcastic and then I looked at your profile, lol.Dropped. Now back to my "moeshit" |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| looks interesting |
| This thread has gotten so stupid. Its become an open flame war where people are just blatantly insulting anyone who likes anime with eyes bigger than 1/10th of the character faces. Ridiculous. |
| Wow... so much hate. Well I knew that'd happen when I saw the manga's character design. The semi-realistic look doesn't really bother me, it might even help in making the story look more serious. I'd say the show is somewhere "between" live action and animation, and for anyone expecting a typical anime(like 95% of people who read the manga) it is/will be disappointing/infuriating/whatever. Lucky me, who doesn't care and can enjoy the story ^^. |
| One 24 minute episode of people walking around talking to each other, and people are proclaiming this to be the most original anime ever. Crazy. Its just, wow. |
| I wasn't expecting this to have so many pages, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering the backlash. I suppose it's true what they say on "it's easier to complain". Not that that's really a bad thing, though a little saddening. I'm not going to read everyone's post, so sorry if mine is in anyway similar to others. I quite enjoy rotoscoping, when it's done well it's probably one of my more preferred animation techniques. Something about it seems interesting. It's certainly interesting here, it adds this weird atmosphere of "something's not right" that I just love. Everything about Aku no Hana's anime is absolutely atmospheric, and the mood it slowly sets up in this first episode is amazing. This is one of my favourite first episodes in anime, and I'm very excited to see where it goes from here. I was never a huge fan of the manga, so I don't have that personal attachment to the original designs that some might, but I will say I'm not disappointed in design changes. I also won't be disappointed if this adaption ends up completely different from the source as it seems to imply, I enjoy seeing a story from different angles like this. My only real complaint is the opening theme/"animation". Felt so out of place, would be better without it. I hope it stays on this enjoyable path the entire run, I'll forgive any animation quality drops that may occur along the way. |
| Is there an actual, valid and reasonable rationalization as to why people dislike this so much? |
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amginex said: Solvite said: One 24 minute episode of people walking around talking to each other, and people are proclaiming this to be the most original anime ever. Crazy. Its just, wow. i notice in your profile that you actually have this in you favorite top 5? LOL i mean i like it so far, but not enough at even my top 10. which actually just proves that people differ in taste and perspective. youve read the manga, they are suppose to live in a town with nothing going on and thus living a boring, mundane, uneventful life. How else can you depict that in an anime? i mean other than having a boring, mundane, uneventful episode? the main issue with what you said is, why waste an entire episode? to which i agree with. but it could be a set-up or just introduction of the anime. everything can be debated to go one way or the other. i mean it is only the first episode. as for the graphics, not going to debate why people should or shouldnt like it. But can you imagine if this was made like a normal anime? this thread wouldnt have gone to as many pages at it is now. its the haters, or should i say the "dislikers" that brings life and attention into these things. just look at the SAO threads. I actually am growing to not dislike the show. I just hate extremist logic like this: "Anyone who dislikes Aku no Hana must like Moe Trash". Thats like, two giant opposite ends of the freaking spectrum. Someone can dislike rotoscoping AND moe trash. Plus, theres nothing wrong with liking moe anime. Also, half the shit people are calling moe is just "cute". What I'm taking from this thread is that I need to get a ruler out and measure the eyes of each character before i rate a show, or else I have bad taste. |
| I honestly want to know if there was a valid/profitable reason to go ahead and rotoscope this anime...seriously, I can almost see it being canceled half way through the season. I had to tape my head to the screen just to maintain any form of interest. |
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Selair said: I honestly want to know if there was a valid/profitable reason to go ahead and rotoscope this anime...seriously, I can almost see it being canceled half way through the season. I had to tape my head to the screen just to maintain any form of interest. Because people will defend it no matter what it looks like, just to seem "hip" and "different". If the show maintains the vibes set by the last 8 minutes of the episode it wont matter, it will be a hit. |
Takuan_Soho said: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that if you've legitimately and consistently watched anime for that long, props to you. Rather, I am more disappointed with the amount of negativity it stems due to the unconventional use of rotoscoping itself. There is nothing wrong with being unconventional, or straying from the conventional art style that is so profoundly used in mainstream today. And as far as your second argument goes, I can't directly refute it -- as I haven't read the manga, or any manga for that matter. But to be fair, only one episode has aired. How can people find the idea of refuting this immediately and claim it to be astray from the original work, and something so benign as artwork alone? And by original, I mean storyline and plot. Unless, that is, what they are doing. Though I find that to be very inconceivable as...well, only one episode has aired.Cigarette said: Is there an actual, valid and reasonable rationalization as to why people dislike this so much? People hate rotoscoping, always have, always will. Hated in the 1970's, hate it now in the 2010's. There is a reason why few directors use it, this is why. There is also a sizable contingency that hates the character design. Some of them because it wasn't moe (which is an illegitimate reason), but I have read a couple people who made good points that the designs of the "strange" girl works against what she is in the comic. If so that would be a legitimate reason to dislike this animation, growing proportionally to how much you liked the manga. Yes an animation is a different thing from the manga and changes have to happen, but it is possible to change something so much that people no longer think it is the original work. In that case to such people, the director is exploiting, not adapting, the manga. Think of a movie that calls itself Moby Dick, but has Ahab as a greenpeace proponent (humm, scratch that, that could actually be both good and true to the original) - er, imagine Star Wars where the Empire is good, and the rebels evil. Not to say such a movie wouldn't be entertaining, but it certainly isn't Star Wars. |
CigaretteApr 11, 2013 12:54 PM
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amginex said: Cigarette said: Is there an actual, valid and reasonable rationalization as to why people dislike this so much? from what i read in this forum (and no i have not ready every single post) here are some valid dislikes; 1. different animation than the typical anime - missing faces/ugly characters/ "moles" - fps/bad fluidity 2. slow pacing of the story - nothing happened 3. some people dont like the OP, ED or both Can you even call Rotoscoping "animation"? They didn't animate the people. BTW Star Wars where the Empire is good and the Rebels are evil is called the first Starship Troopers movie. |
Solvite said: Selair said: I honestly want to know if there was a valid/profitable reason to go ahead and rotoscope this anime...seriously, I can almost see it being canceled half way through the season. I had to tape my head to the screen just to maintain any form of interest. Because people will defend it no matter what it looks like, just to seem "hip" and "different". If the show maintains the vibes set by the last 8 minutes of the episode it wont matter, it will be a hit. Not if the first 10 minutes blows away 75% of the audience :3. But seriously, I just can't see this making money off it's constrained art style and it's HUGE deviation from the manga's art style. That's not to say that you won't have those sub-groups of people that find it "hip" to rotoscope, but that's a small portion of people in my eyes. |
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amginex said: Truth of the matter is, we are unable to decipher and analyze such things down to a point simply because of one episode. The fact so many pose disdain for the show after one measly episode escapes me.Cigarette said: Is there an actual, valid and reasonable rationalization as to why people dislike this so much? from what i read in this forum (and no i have not ready every single post) here are some valid dislikes; 1. different animation than the typical anime - missing faces/ugly characters/ "moles" - fps/bad fluidity 2. slow pacing of the story - nothing happened 3. some people dont like the OP, ED or both |
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| What I don't understand is why people have to justify themselves when they don't like a TV show. It is wrong and should be a breach of the site's rules to insult someone with extremist crap about their taste in anime just because they don't like Aku no Hana. Look, I don't mind the show, it grew on me, but the art looks like shit. If you are going to call anyone who doesn't like it a moe loving person with bad taste, then you need to relax and take a break from anime. |
| Whether the story will keep me interested or not remains to be seen, the first episode doesn't really reveal anything. A dude's average day at school, pretty much. I did find the animation style very captivating, however. All the little movements and gestures, the way they walk... Even the voice acting sounds more life-like, somehow, almost as if I was watching a j-drama. All in all it was a bit "strange", sure, but curiously so. Will continue watching to find out how it actually turns out. n_n |
Solvite said: You're not referencing that to me, are you?What I don't understand is why people have to justify themselves when they don't like a TV show. It is wrong and should be a breach of the site's rules to insult someone with extremist crap about their taste in anime just because they don't like Aku no Hana. Look, I don't mind the show, it grew on me, but the art looks like shit. If you are going to call anyone who doesn't like it a moe loving person with bad taste, then you need to relax and take a break from anime. |
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Cigarette said: Solvite said: You're not referencing that to me, are you?What I don't understand is why people have to justify themselves when they don't like a TV show. It is wrong and should be a breach of the site's rules to insult someone with extremist crap about their taste in anime just because they don't like Aku no Hana. Look, I don't mind the show, it grew on me, but the art looks like shit. If you are going to call anyone who doesn't like it a moe loving person with bad taste, then you need to relax and take a break from anime. I'm referencing it to anyone who insults anyone. Hell I do it. I do it way too much. But this thread reminds me of a political debate. Realism <-----------Aku no Hana------------O---------------K-On!!---------> Moe The spectrum is much bigger than one or the other. Aku no Hana should not be judged unfavorably OR favorably based on its art. If you demand that people look past the art and enjoy the show, you cant give the show "credit" for being original with its Art. Art either matters, or it doesnt matter. |
Solvite said: In that case, consider me exclusive from that. I'd very much rather see legitimate reasons as to why people dislike it so much, as opposed to insulting them. And no idea about that debate btw.Cigarette said: Solvite said: You're not referencing that to me, are you?What I don't understand is why people have to justify themselves when they don't like a TV show. It is wrong and should be a breach of the site's rules to insult someone with extremist crap about their taste in anime just because they don't like Aku no Hana. Look, I don't mind the show, it grew on me, but the art looks like shit. If you are going to call anyone who doesn't like it a moe loving person with bad taste, then you need to relax and take a break from anime. I'm referencing it to anyone who insults anyone. Hell I do it. I do it way too much. But this thread reminds me of a political debate. Realism <-----------Aku no Hana------------O---------------K-On!!---------> Moe |
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| Most people probably dislike it because it is shoddily filmed. Regardless of what art style you like, theres no excuse for them doing such a bad job Rotoscoping that the characters outlines shake around like Michael J Fox when they aren't even moving. I refuse to lend them a pass on shit rotoscoping just because Rotoscoping is "new" and "different". Which it isn't... |
| Perhaps that it what they are intentionally going for. |
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| Ok I've discovered the perfect way to explain why this anime's art style sucks. Rotoscoping when it is done correctly. Aku no Hana Both of these videos are Take on Me, except one of them is complete and utter shit. |
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