| My favorite clash is without a doubt between zheng and ryofui of kingdom https://myanimelist.net/manga/16765/Kingdom?q=kingdom&cat=manga, the final speech of zheng about humanity was very beautiful. |
| I've always been a sucker for crossovers. So maybe titles such as Tsubasa Chronicles. |
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| I honestly really like elements of class disparity and the ideological clashes that causes in media. One example I found really fun was the "Low Class Warrior vs. Elite" theme present in Dragon Ball which most notably is present in Goku vs. Vegeta, but in a way continues to carry over into the Namek arc with Goku vs. Freeza as well. |
This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place.  |
| The only one I can think of right now is Goetia vs Solomon from fate grand order. Goetia views humanity's history as endless cycle of pain and suffering, therefore he wants to start over and create a world where death doesn't exist. He states it himself that "a life with death is of no use for me". Solomon doesn't deny that a life like that makes people experience suffering and pain, but that's not all life is; there is hope and love in it. He believes life is meaningful exactly because it is finite and full of struggles. |
"Nobody could laugh at someone who's trying their hardest" -Machio- |
| Wow, that was my exact answer as well when I saw the thread title. That series of events catapulted him into my fav antagonist of all time I think.... |
| Status quo vs revolution vs ignoring all that for your own interest. That would be Lycoris Recoil with DA vs Majima vs Café LycoReco vs Alan Institute. I mentioned 3 options yet there are 4 factions... That's what gets me hooked into the story. The third option of pursuing your interest is far from monolithic and that is what makes for both a realistic and interesting world. Whether the interest are worth pursuing or not is good discussion material no matter what one believes. However, it is not the first entertainment media that heavily featured those themes that I am familiar with. With that, we look at Fire Emblem 3 Houses/Hopes. Honestly, the more factions, provided they are well done, the better. |
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| Pervert Law vs. No Love No Sex https://myanimelist.net/anime/57969/Nukitashi_the_Animation |
No, this isn't my signature. |
HxH's chimera ant arc is memorable for it's complex narratives and most notably the parallels between who are considered heroes and villains. Meruem and Pitou are born monsters but die as humans while Gon becomes a monster. Yuzu's theme song Hyouriittai (two sides of the coin) goes perfectly with it. Among Tezuka's works Black Jack has been my favorite. Black Jack wants to save his patients no matter what but he is reminded time and again he is no god and even his skills have limits. Nagai's Devilman is another classic that toches on several complex themes and doesn't hold back at all. LSSJ_Chloe said: One example I found really fun was the "Low Class Warrior vs. Elite" theme present in Dragon Ball which most notably is present in Goku vs. Vegeta, but in a way continues to carry over into the Namek arc with Goku vs. Freeza as well WTF are you talking about? Vegeta wasn't talking down to Goku because he is "lower class", but simply because Goku was weaker. That's all Saiyans even care about, they were called barbarian race for a reason. Later Vegeta's attitude towards Goku changes instantly after his defeat. And how did you even see it in Goku vs Frieza, that was simply a battle of good vs evil. |
| Wanting to change the political system from the inside (which would solve jack) VS Rebelling for overthrowing the current system by force. https://myanimelist.net/anime/1575/Code_Geass__Hangyaku_no_Lelouch |
SoumyaUkil738 hours ago
 |
Reply to Captain-577
HxH's chimera ant arc is memorable for it's complex narratives and most notably the parallels between who are considered heroes and villains. Meruem and Pitou are born monsters but die as humans while Gon becomes a monster. Yuzu's theme song Hyouriittai (two sides of the coin) goes perfectly with it.
Among Tezuka's works Black Jack has been my favorite. Black Jack wants to save his patients no matter what but he is reminded time and again he is no god and even his skills have limits.
Nagai's Devilman is another classic that toches on several complex themes and doesn't hold back at all.
LSSJ_Chloe said:
One example I found really fun was the "Low Class Warrior vs. Elite" theme present in Dragon Ball which most notably is present in Goku vs. Vegeta, but in a way continues to carry over into the Namek arc with Goku vs. Freeza as well
One example I found really fun was the "Low Class Warrior vs. Elite" theme present in Dragon Ball which most notably is present in Goku vs. Vegeta, but in a way continues to carry over into the Namek arc with Goku vs. Freeza as well
WTF are you talking about? Vegeta wasn't talking down to Goku because he is "lower class", but simply because Goku was weaker. That's all Saiyans even care about, they were called barbarian race for a reason. Later Vegeta's attitude towards Goku changes instantly after his defeat. And how did you even see it in Goku vs Frieza, that was simply a battle of good vs evil.
Captain-577 said: WTF are you talking about? Vegeta wasn't talking down to Goku because he is "lower class", but simply because Goku was weaker. That's all Saiyans even care about, they were called barbarian race for a reason. Later Vegeta's attitude towards Goku changes instantly after his defeat. And how did you even see it in Goku vs Frieza, that was simply a battle of good vs evil. Do you not see any of the subtext in DB? The Saiyans essentially biologically determine one's class by how strong they are from the moment they are born. They essentially believe one's genetics determine one's role in society by shipping off the "Lower class" Saiyans to "weaker" planets. Vegeta being the prince symbolically links to this theme of "the elite" by having someone who was born not just with physical prowess, but in a political sense as well go up against someone who was not only considered "weak" at birth, but someone who has essentially rejected the notion that your birth should determine your status. In the manga Goku rebuts against Vegeta's points by telling him that "on this planet, even the lowest-born can outdo the elite if they work hard enough" which Vegeta scoffs at, seeing it as mockery as he truly believes that his birth and status make him an impenetrable wall that Goku will fall to. Goku vs Freeza continues the theme of the "low class vs the elite" if you look at it from a lens of the oppressor vs the oppressed angle. Freeza, similar to Vegeta is essentially a prince, and he actively committed genocide against the Saiyans by blowing up their planet, exterminating most of their race due to feeling threatened by the legend of the Super Saiyan. Freeza near consistently uses racist langauge towards Goku and boasts about himself being "the strongest in the universe" and looks down towards him. When we look back with retroactive continuity bits introduced, it even fits Goku's ideology of hard work being able to outdo those born of elite status, since in Resurrection F, we learn that Freeza had never even put in any effort to train himself prior to that movie. Freeza was so confident in his own strength and status as "the strongest in the universe" he didn't even see it as worth the time to better himself which is part of the reason why he could never beat Goku, a man who strives to become stronger and work his hardest to push past his own limits. Even when you take into account the origins of Freeza being based on real estate tycoons, the idea of "the elite vs the lower class" can still work as you are essentially having a greedy Space Real Estate Agent losing both morally and physically to a working class man. You can read a lot more into even a simple story like Dragon Ball if you think about the themes and how they relate to our real world. Acting like it's just about genetics kind of misses the point a bit |
| This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
| Tits vs Ass from Prison School I'm a tits guy and will defend my tits all my life, in death, even after death |
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Reply to Zarutaku
| @Zarutaku This, even though the correct side is obvious. |
| Shingeki no Kyojin Yeagerists vs. discount The Avengers™ |
| Legend of the Galactic Heroes is chock full of ideological clashes: Yang v. Schenkopp Yang v. Reinhardt Oberstein v. Kircheis/The High Admirals etc. Although, as good as this show is, it really could have dived deeper into many of these debates. Not anime or manga, but I also want to mention A Discourse by Three Drunkards by Nakae Chomin for this. Very interesting, especially if you know the ideas of the period SoumyaUkil73 said: Trying to change the political system from the inside (which would solve jack) VS Rebelling for overthrowing the current system by force. |
Baskarite said: I'd probably kill myself if fucking kyun kyun came on over the speaker while I was trying to fight. |
| The normal people not prone to accept conformism to what the higher-ups tell you to do vs. the corporate $uit$ oligarchies that control our rotten democracies in Death Note and all the Toshiki Inoue written animes and tokusatsus, of course. |
Reply to User8492
Legend of the Galactic Heroes is chock full of ideological clashes:
Yang v. Schenkopp
Yang v. Reinhardt
Oberstein v. Kircheis/The High Admirals
etc.
Although, as good as this show is, it really could have dived deeper into many of these debates.
Not anime or manga, but I also want to mention A Discourse by Three Drunkards by Nakae Chomin for this. Very interesting, especially if you know the ideas of the period
Yang v. Schenkopp
Yang v. Reinhardt
Oberstein v. Kircheis/The High Admirals
etc.
Although, as good as this show is, it really could have dived deeper into many of these debates.
Not anime or manga, but I also want to mention A Discourse by Three Drunkards by Nakae Chomin for this. Very interesting, especially if you know the ideas of the period
SoumyaUkil73 said:
Trying to change the political system from the inside (which would solve jack)
VS
Rebelling for overthrowing the current system by force.
Trying to change the political system from the inside (which would solve jack)
VS
Rebelling for overthrowing the current system by force.
| @User8492 that baskarite guy must be a real beatch. Kyun Kyun is not my favourite (I prefer my waifus Idol and Wink to her) but what's the deal with hating her? |
ProudElitist said: that baskarite guy must be a real beatch. Kyun Kyun is not my favourite (I prefer my waifus Idol and Wink to her) but what's the deal with hating her? This was taken from the Ep27 discussion on here, so he is most likely referring to "My Boyfriend is a Pilot" playing in the fight with that quote, not Minmay herself. The next line Baskarite gives is, It's just the humor in the juxtaposition of having an all-out battle and then hearing "Kyun, Kyun" in background. Also I've never heard Kyun Kyun as a Minmay nickname. As for why people hate her, there was this good post by someone else on here about that, but I can't remember where it was. I think the hate mainly comes from the epilogue stuff and from her relationship with Kaifun. Hikaru was really the one who screwed up most there though, not her. |
Baskarite said: I'd probably kill myself if fucking kyun kyun came on over the speaker while I was trying to fight. |
Reply to User8492
ProudElitist said:
that baskarite guy must be a real beatch. Kyun Kyun is not my favourite (I prefer my waifus Idol and Wink to her) but what's the deal with hating her?
that baskarite guy must be a real beatch. Kyun Kyun is not my favourite (I prefer my waifus Idol and Wink to her) but what's the deal with hating her?
This was taken from the Ep27 discussion on here, so he is most likely referring to "My Boyfriend is a Pilot" playing in the fight with that quote, not Minmay herself. The next line Baskarite gives is,
It's just the humor in the juxtaposition of having an all-out battle and then hearing "Kyun, Kyun" in background. Also I've never heard Kyun Kyun as a Minmay nickname.
As for why people hate her, there was this good post by someone else on here about that, but I can't remember where it was. I think the hate mainly comes from the epilogue stuff and from her relationship with Kaifun. Hikaru was really the one who screwed up most there though, not her.
| @User8492 Ah ok, it was a reference to Lynn Minmay. No, I hate her too, particularly the one from the movie who is ok to kill thousands because her idiotical non-boyfriend (who is worst than her anyway) dumped her. I love Mari Iijima though. I mistook her with Cure Kyun Kyun from Pretty Cure Kimi To Idol, it's a completely different character. |
Reply to ProudElitist
@User8492 Ah ok, it was a reference to Lynn Minmay. No, I hate her too, particularly the one from the movie who is ok to kill thousands because her idiotical non-boyfriend (who is worst than her anyway) dumped her. I love Mari Iijima though. I mistook her with Cure Kyun Kyun from Pretty Cure Kimi To Idol, it's a completely different character.
| @ProudElitist That makes more sense. I realize now that quote can look pretty vague. Also I forgot about that part of DYRL. I was thinking that movie made her look better but you're right, she does do that. Even in her propaganda film, she can't catch a break. This also reminded me: Basara vs. Gamlin from Macross 7 |
Baskarite said: I'd probably kill myself if fucking kyun kyun came on over the speaker while I was trying to fight. |
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