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Who is the most overrated villain in anime?

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May 14, 8:14 PM
#1

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My vote to Yagami Light, academically gifted but he has a book that can kill people and gets caught. Interested on other opinions.
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May 14, 8:28 PM
#2

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Madara... that last leg of naruto shippuden felt boring in comparison to pain etc
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May 14, 8:41 PM
#3

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Dec 2021
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Probs former supreme leader of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Kim Jong-il. I mean, he's already dead, so he's kinda a non-issue now... in Mudazumo, the anime.




This is a historically accurate depiction of Kim Jong-il playing mahjong
Daviljoe193May 15, 1:52 AM
Opinions are opinions, and differing opinions can co-exist. 🙂 But I don't do debate, life's too short to spend time debating people.
May 14, 8:43 PM
#4
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My vote to Yagami Light


Are you dum-dum or you tryna get attention?
May 14, 10:29 PM
#5

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Dec 2019
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Muzan, he is joke lmao
Even uppermoons got more characterization than him
May 14, 10:36 PM
#6

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Light is an anti hero, not a villain.
May 14, 11:57 PM
#7

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Reply to dankmitris
Light is an anti hero, not a villain.
@dankmitris
Nah, anti-heroes don't kill innocent people for their own convenience. Light became a villain the moment he decided it was okay to kill detectives and investigators who were just doing their job, so that he could avoid getting caught.
May 15, 12:02 AM
#8

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Definitely Johan Liebert from Monster.
May 15, 12:02 AM
#9

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Reply to Stygian_Prisoner
@dankmitris
Nah, anti-heroes don't kill innocent people for their own convenience. Light became a villain the moment he decided it was okay to kill detectives and investigators who were just doing their job, so that he could avoid getting caught.
@Stygian_Prisoner Sure, but narrative wise he isn't a villain at all.
May 15, 12:51 AM

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Reply to Stygian_Prisoner
@dankmitris
Nah, anti-heroes don't kill innocent people for their own convenience. Light became a villain the moment he decided it was okay to kill detectives and investigators who were just doing their job, so that he could avoid getting caught.
@Stygian_Prisoner

Morally I agree, but as @Blackfire2340 pointed out narrative wise he's not a villain.
May 15, 1:26 AM

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Reply to Serafos
Definitely Johan Liebert from Monster.
@Serafos I agree he's overrated, but there are far more overrated villains IMO. Doflamingo for example is a pretty popular villain but he's not half the character Johan is.

Im out of touch nowadays with Mainstream anime but I think Aizen's pretty overrated like a lot of battle shonen villains.
Jackof-allspadesMay 15, 1:30 AM
May 15, 1:53 AM

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https://myanimelist.net/character/3694/Freeza
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May 15, 2:09 AM

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Bondrewd from Made in Abyss. I mean he is cool as fuck and I like how he does everything for science but I don't think he's an all timer like people used to say he was especially since he lacks screentime
May 15, 2:27 AM

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https://myanimelist.net/character/122103/Tomura_Shigaraki

His introduction at the end of S1 is straight up garbage and its apparently why the show became populer


....To be precise its just a 3 epesode out of nowhere fight scenes that drags and still somehow end up rushed
May 15, 3:03 AM

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Reply to NoelleIsSleepy
Madara... that last leg of naruto shippuden felt boring in comparison to pain etc
this, basically
they are not actually overrated tbh cuz no one really talks about them nearly as much as they do Pain or Orochimaru

obscureanimefan said:
I think little girls are sexy.
May 15, 3:04 AM

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I found Vicious from Cowboy Bebop to be so boring.
May 15, 3:19 AM

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Reply to Abomination_suah
Muzan, he is joke lmao
Even uppermoons got more characterization than him
@Abomination_suah who tf rates muzan
May 15, 5:46 AM

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Askeladd
Bondrewd

Btw what the hell is "anti-hero" and what is an anime example of it?
May 15, 7:39 AM

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Who is the most overrated villain in anime?

Freza, he is alright I guess not too bad, also anyone know if I can say the N-word on this app?
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May 15, 8:00 AM

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Animeinsight101 said:
anyone know if I can say the N-word on this app?

You mean knee-gar? You can, but you gotta be creative.
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May 15, 8:13 AM

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Reply to Serafos
Definitely Johan Liebert from Monster.
@Serafos ^

I'm not going to choose a villain who's obviously not liked by many (like Muzan, etc)

Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special
May 15, 8:23 AM

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Reply to TRC_Randy
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Bondrewd

Btw what the hell is "anti-hero" and what is an anime example of it?
@TRC_Randy

This is one of my favourite channels on youtube, and this is a really good video on the topic:

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May 15, 8:29 AM

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Reply to Nanami0007
@Serafos ^

I'm not going to choose a villain who's obviously not liked by many (like Muzan, etc)

Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special
@Nanami0007 but he IS special tho. No other villain is like Johan.
May 15, 8:30 AM

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Idk I like most of the villains that people talk about as much as everyone else.

Maybe Johan? it's hard to say cause I think he is a REALLY GOOD villain. I just don't see the "easily best of all time" myself, there are a decent amount of villains in anime that I consider just as good or better than him. He's not even my favourite character from monster, I liked grimmer more.

Still though, I find it a bit dumb to complain about a character that I think is absolutely amazing being overrated. It's the difference of me being like "he's one of the best villains in anime" vs "top 5 best villains in all of fiction".

I guess I just didn't see him as scary as a lot of other people did, I'm going to get massacred for saying this, but the way the id:invaded protagonist used talk no jutsu was FAR more terrifying and manipulative imo. and that was meant to be the good guy!

I appreciate how well written he is, but as I said I think that goes for every important character in stories written by urasawa.
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May 15, 8:35 AM

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Reply to Nanami0007
@Serafos ^

I'm not going to choose a villain who's obviously not liked by many (like Muzan, etc)

Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special
Nanami0007 said:
Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special


I see why you would think this.

What makes Johan such an incredible villain isn't really as obvious as a lot of other types of characters.

Johan is evil, but there is a very distinct difference between him and every other villain that makes him so terrifying, and that's the fact that he's indifferent. Not only he knows the perfect way to eat at someone's life, and make them terrified to their very core, he also does it with no sense of satisfaction.

He isn't just a bad guy, he is the perfect reincarnation of Satan in human flesh.

And the fact that his role in monster is at least partly proving Tenma wrong, his character could not have been any more perfect for the job.

The "you should have killed me when you had the chance" has never been more meaningful before or since monster.
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May 15, 8:48 AM

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Reply to APolygons2
@TRC_Randy

This is one of my favourite channels on youtube, and this is a really good video on the topic:

@APolygons2 kay i'm gonna watch this later.
May 15, 8:51 AM
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Literally all the antagonists in Juujika No Rokunin. IDGAF of what the absolute fans of this atrocity will tell me, but none of them are well written (at least, the 1st strip). Whether it's the boss, the one with the gun or the others, all have a development as catastrophic as the treatment of TPN's s2. All their actions, even the filthiest and most depraved, are justified only by the fact that they have to look evil, really evil, very, very much evil. And then, to allow the author to indulge his every fantasy in terms of torture. No, really, I think it couldn't get any worse.

PS. You can come, absolute fans of this "manga", I really just don't care anymore. I've already lost my time reading this.

Kumoiro_ShizukiMay 15, 8:57 AM
May 15, 10:09 AM

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I want to say Johan Liebert, but I'm still reading the manga, so maybe my thoughts on him will change.
May 15, 11:13 AM
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Shigaraki. I just don't really think he's a very compelling character in general, even with his backstory, and he's far from being the best villain in MHA, but is often praised as one of the best modern shounen villains.

Stain was a much better villain despite having so little screentime compared to Shigaraki.
May 15, 2:27 PM

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@Blackfire2340
Sure, but narrative wise he isn't a villain at all.

@dankmitris
Morally I agree, but as @Blackfire2340 pointed out narrative wise he's not a villain.


What exactly do you guys mean when you say "narrative-wise"? It seems to me that the show very clearly and unambiguously frames Light as the villain of the story:


The script/dialogue also reflects this. To paraphrase an exchange from the end of Ep. 1:
Light - "I will create a new world where only good, earnest people live."
Ryuk - "But then you'll be the only evil person left."

The narrative doesn't celebrate Light's actions; it condemns them. Remember, "protagonist" does not necessarily equate to "hero/anti-hero", just as "antagonist" does not always equate to "villain".
May 15, 2:33 PM

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Still no mention of Meruem?

The thing that was supposedly a scripted threat to mankind was just playing chess the whole time against a human and couldn't even win, then got smashed by another human like a fly. And that's it. That was his entire career as a villain.
May 15, 2:37 PM

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griffith BY FAR. i like berserk and everything but the manga has many many flaws, especially griffith. everyone keeps saying he's such a complex villain but I feel like they're only saying that because he just doesn't "look" evil at first glance. he's so robotic and nothing he does even makes sense, he's not as layered or complex as everyone says he is. he's similar to johan where people just automatically say he's an amazing villain cuz he doesn't look like the conventional scary looking villains we're used to and he's quiet. when in reality he just *does* stuff.
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May 15, 2:41 PM
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Definitely Johan. He's a psychopathic murderer, plenty of those around. Plenty of villains don't care about who they murder. I guess what distinguishes him is that he's able to manipulate people so easily but that doesn't necessarily make him a great villain, especially when half the time his manipulations are unexplained. And no, it being unexplained doesn't make it better it just makes it cheap.
May 15, 3:08 PM

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Reply to TRC_Randy
Askeladd
Bondrewd

Btw what the hell is "anti-hero" and what is an anime example of it?
@TRC_Randy
an anti-hero is someone who wants to do the right thing but sometimes goes about it in an evil/conventionally non-heroic way. Like killing, stealing, manipulating etc,. Or an anti-hero is just someone who isn't the conventional "hero" like superman. Like he's an alcoholic, he likes lying, cheating etc,.
usually the main difference of an anti-hero and a villain is an anti-hero will never willingly go as far as killing an innocent life.

an example is eren jeager because he wants to do the right thing but he does it in an evil way (killing other people, taking advantage of others.) but tbh by the end of aot he's just a straight villain.
also guts because sometimes he helps people but he also insults them at the same time or kills a lot of people in the middle of it.
Kenzolo-folkMay 15, 3:16 PM
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May 15, 3:40 PM

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Probably Frieza from Dragon Ball Z imo...
May 15, 3:50 PM

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Definitely Johan Liebert from Monster. x2
May 15, 7:41 PM

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@Zarutaku
I don't think there is any villain more overrated. Meruem may be a close 2nd.
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May 15, 8:29 PM

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Reply to Recynon
Definitely Johan. He's a psychopathic murderer, plenty of those around. Plenty of villains don't care about who they murder. I guess what distinguishes him is that he's able to manipulate people so easily but that doesn't necessarily make him a great villain, especially when half the time his manipulations are unexplained. And no, it being unexplained doesn't make it better it just makes it cheap.
Recynon said:
Definitely Johan. He's a psychopathic murderer, plenty of those around. Plenty of villains don't care about who they murder.
nah he's actually so much more than that.
May 15, 9:03 PM
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Reply to TRC_Randy
Recynon said:
Definitely Johan. He's a psychopathic murderer, plenty of those around. Plenty of villains don't care about who they murder.
nah he's actually so much more than that.
@TRC_Randy I'd love to hear it then. I've searched up posts about him but for the most part the details we're given are too vague to amount to anything concrete. I also think his actions are too extreme for his backstory to add any nuance to his total evilness.
May 15, 9:38 PM

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Reply to Recynon
@TRC_Randy I'd love to hear it then. I've searched up posts about him but for the most part the details we're given are too vague to amount to anything concrete. I also think his actions are too extreme for his backstory to add any nuance to his total evilness.
Recynon said:
his total evilness.
except he's not totally evil. He SEEMED that way only until
TRC_RandyMay 15, 9:50 PM
May 16, 2:45 PM
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Reply to TRC_Randy
Recynon said:
his total evilness.
except he's not totally evil. He SEEMED that way only until
@TRC_Randy

So if I'm getting this right, before his memories returned, all he remembered was the murders at the Red Rose Mansion (I'm discounting the experiences at 511 because they explicitly say that he was already a monster before that, so it wouldn't have changed his murderous ways). Supposedly remembering a murder spree (which he didn't even experience himself) doesn't necessarily nurture someone into being a psychopathic serial killer. The choice was still his to become that, and/or he already had clinical psychopathy. A normal person can react a number of ways to this trauma that would have a negative impact on their life but not necessarily take the route of being anything close to a killer.

After he regains his memories he's still largely killing a whole bunch of people including an entire town. I don't see how him handing some money to a prostitute makes a dent on the fact that he's an extremely evil person on the whole. Yes, I wouldn't be correct to say that he's TOTALLY evil but what I meant was that his actions are so depraved that he's essentially just evil for the sake of evil. Yes, there are explanations for his evil, but none of them account for most of the extremity of his actions.

For example, seeing a murder spree and/or being abandoned by his mother are certainly traumatic events but none of them even necessarily drive a person to do harm on others, let alone become a psychopathic serial killer. They don't even necessarily lead to a nihilistic outlook, and even then, a nihilistic outlook doesn't necessarily mean being a murderer. "Life has no meaning" =/= "I want to kill people". Hell, Nina was the one that ACTUALLY got abandoned and ACTUALLY saw the Red Rose Mansion murders and she didn't become a killer.

That's not to say that these events CAN'T lead someone like Johan to do what he did, but even then, all it would amount to is "childhood trauma and exposure to violence fucks you up" which is not saying anything new, nuanced, nor original. If I watch any random crime show and there's a serial killer, yeah, my first assumption would be that he had some fucked up childhood experience and/or he's psychopathic. But that's not the main point of those shows. The main point is the serial killer has to be stopped because they're actively killing people. Same thing with Monster, except Monster makes a big deal out of the mystery of why Johan is doing what he did and in the end what little it gives are pretty predictable reasons like lack of parental love and violent experiences, instead of just focusing on taking down Johan so he wouldn't kill more people. This would look completely ludicrous in any detective/police show, where everyone KNOWS the serial killer probably has some type of "nurture" reason but it's irrelevant to the lives at stake in the present. They'd capture the serial killer, and no matter what sad backstory he has, he's still sentenced to life in jail.
RecynonMay 16, 2:50 PM
May 16, 2:46 PM

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Are people that have morals just moralfags btw?
May 16, 2:58 PM

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Madara. Bro was built up so much just to let us down so bad
May 16, 5:43 PM

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Recynon said:
So if I'm getting this right, before his memories returned, all he remembered was the murders at the Red Rose Mansion (I'm discounting the experiences at 511 because they explicitly say that he was already a monster before that, so it wouldn't have changed his murderous ways). Supposedly remembering a murder spree (which he didn't even experience himself) doesn't necessarily nurture someone into being a psychopathic serial killer. The choice was still his to become that, and/or he already had clinical psychopathy. A normal person can react a number of ways to this trauma that would have a negative impact on their life but not necessarily take the route of being anything close to a killer.
Johan was a eugenics product and was only like 5-7 years old when he first developed his ideals so no, he's nowhere a "normal person".

Even if he was, i still don't see the problem here. It COULD happen.

Recynon said:
After he regains his memories he's still largely killing a whole bunch of people including an entire town. I don't see how him handing some money to a prostitute makes a dent on the fact that he's an extremely evil person on the whole. Yes, I wouldn't be correct to say that he's TOTALLY evil but what I meant was that his actions are so depraved that he's essentially just evil for the sake of evil.
what? How's he just evil for the sake of evil? You've watched that video. He has his motivations and it's not just that.

Recynon said:
For example, seeing a murder spree and/or being abandoned by his mother are certainly traumatic events but none of them even necessarily drive a person to do harm on others, let alone become a psychopathic serial killer. They don't even necessarily lead to a nihilistic outlook, and even then, a nihilistic outlook doesn't necessarily mean being a murderer. "Life has no meaning" =/= "I want to kill people". Hell, Nina was the one that ACTUALLY got abandoned and ACTUALLY saw the Red Rose Mansion murders and she didn't become a killer.
Nina experienced the deaths but she didn't see the mother's betrayal. JOHAN did. That's the point.

Recynon said:
That's not to say that these events CAN'T lead someone like Johan to do what he did, but even then, all it would amount to is "childhood trauma and exposure to violence fucks you up" which is not saying anything new, nuanced, nor original. If I watch any random crime show and there's a serial killer, yeah, my first assumption would be that he had some fucked up childhood experience and/or he's psychopathic. But that's not the main point of those shows. The main point is the serial killer has to be stopped because they're actively killing people. Same thing with Monster, except Monster makes a big deal out of the mystery of why Johan is doing what he did and in the end what little it gives are pretty predictable reasons like lack of parental love and violent experiences, instead of just focusing on taking down Johan so he wouldn't kill more people. This would look completely ludicrous in any detective/police show,
Idk man, there's a lot of wrongs here:
1. Monster isn't the classic detective/police show. It's a character-driven show and the only characters who embodies those elements are Lunge, Richard Braun and Suk which the latter two are only side characters and the latter of that doesn't appear until ep 43 (sure we can debate on "what makes a detective/police show" but compared to other anime i've seen that are truly from that category, Monster simply isn't one).
2. I haven't actually seen that many "any crime show" myself but NO, those themes wouldn't look ludicrous at all. You see we tend to underestimate what childhood upbringing could do to us personally. Let alone society, let alone country, let alone the world. What happens irl doesn't even compare to our little enjoyment of irreal stories we get from the screens. EVERY normal person in this world knows what childhood upbringing is but few are AWARE of it. I'd go as far as saying that childhood upbringing and/or parental love or lackthereof is one of the major contributions to shaping our world as we see it today. So a little wake up call once in a while wouldn't hurt. Would be nice even. As cliche as it is. Unless that particular show screams parental love and such in every ep in the exact same manner, there is no issue but again that's an attack on the repetitiveness of the themes, not the themes themselves.
3. Are there that many shows or stories that came before Monster that do this tbw? (not in the animanga world that's for sure).
4. Isn't the "serial killer must be stopped" the predictable thing here?
5. Again, the betrayal thing. You might wanna focus on that instead of just "childhood this and that" on the surface.

Recynon said:
They'd capture the serial killer, and no matter what sad backstory he has, he's still sentenced to life in jail.
in case you're asking, no Johan isn't innocent. He's a criminal. He's accountable for what he did. Too bad Monster isn't a show about arresting people and putting them on trial.
TRC_RandyMay 16, 5:54 PM
May 16, 7:25 PM

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Like other people in this thread, I wasnt moved by Johan Liebert from Monster. I need to continue or even rewatch the show (stopped watching since it was kind of a dull, boring experience, stopped watching circa episode 42) and see if I change my opinion.
VaixenMay 16, 8:00 PM
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May 16, 8:01 PM

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Wait I actually remembered a villain that I think is really overrated.

Father from fmab

"but he isn't even that liked, people just think he's fine" you may say.

I say know, that walking plot hole of a 1 dimensional, self contradictory nonsense of a villain is not ok, he is dogshit. specially in comparison to good most of the characters writing in that show he single handily made the show be an 8/10 to me instead of a 9 or a 10.
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Reply to TRC_Randy
Recynon said:
So if I'm getting this right, before his memories returned, all he remembered was the murders at the Red Rose Mansion (I'm discounting the experiences at 511 because they explicitly say that he was already a monster before that, so it wouldn't have changed his murderous ways). Supposedly remembering a murder spree (which he didn't even experience himself) doesn't necessarily nurture someone into being a psychopathic serial killer. The choice was still his to become that, and/or he already had clinical psychopathy. A normal person can react a number of ways to this trauma that would have a negative impact on their life but not necessarily take the route of being anything close to a killer.
Johan was a eugenics product and was only like 5-7 years old when he first developed his ideals so no, he's nowhere a "normal person".

Even if he was, i still don't see the problem here. It COULD happen.

Recynon said:
After he regains his memories he's still largely killing a whole bunch of people including an entire town. I don't see how him handing some money to a prostitute makes a dent on the fact that he's an extremely evil person on the whole. Yes, I wouldn't be correct to say that he's TOTALLY evil but what I meant was that his actions are so depraved that he's essentially just evil for the sake of evil.
what? How's he just evil for the sake of evil? You've watched that video. He has his motivations and it's not just that.

Recynon said:
For example, seeing a murder spree and/or being abandoned by his mother are certainly traumatic events but none of them even necessarily drive a person to do harm on others, let alone become a psychopathic serial killer. They don't even necessarily lead to a nihilistic outlook, and even then, a nihilistic outlook doesn't necessarily mean being a murderer. "Life has no meaning" =/= "I want to kill people". Hell, Nina was the one that ACTUALLY got abandoned and ACTUALLY saw the Red Rose Mansion murders and she didn't become a killer.
Nina experienced the deaths but she didn't see the mother's betrayal. JOHAN did. That's the point.

Recynon said:
That's not to say that these events CAN'T lead someone like Johan to do what he did, but even then, all it would amount to is "childhood trauma and exposure to violence fucks you up" which is not saying anything new, nuanced, nor original. If I watch any random crime show and there's a serial killer, yeah, my first assumption would be that he had some fucked up childhood experience and/or he's psychopathic. But that's not the main point of those shows. The main point is the serial killer has to be stopped because they're actively killing people. Same thing with Monster, except Monster makes a big deal out of the mystery of why Johan is doing what he did and in the end what little it gives are pretty predictable reasons like lack of parental love and violent experiences, instead of just focusing on taking down Johan so he wouldn't kill more people. This would look completely ludicrous in any detective/police show,
Idk man, there's a lot of wrongs here:
1. Monster isn't the classic detective/police show. It's a character-driven show and the only characters who embodies those elements are Lunge, Richard Braun and Suk which the latter two are only side characters and the latter of that doesn't appear until ep 43 (sure we can debate on "what makes a detective/police show" but compared to other anime i've seen that are truly from that category, Monster simply isn't one).
2. I haven't actually seen that many "any crime show" myself but NO, those themes wouldn't look ludicrous at all. You see we tend to underestimate what childhood upbringing could do to us personally. Let alone society, let alone country, let alone the world. What happens irl doesn't even compare to our little enjoyment of irreal stories we get from the screens. EVERY normal person in this world knows what childhood upbringing is but few are AWARE of it. I'd go as far as saying that childhood upbringing and/or parental love or lackthereof is one of the major contributions to shaping our world as we see it today. So a little wake up call once in a while wouldn't hurt. Would be nice even. As cliche as it is. Unless that particular show screams parental love and such in every ep in the exact same manner, there is no issue but again that's an attack on the repetitiveness of the themes, not the themes themselves.
3. Are there that many shows or stories that came before Monster that do this tbw? (not in the animanga world that's for sure).
4. Isn't the "serial killer must be stopped" the predictable thing here?
5. Again, the betrayal thing. You might wanna focus on that instead of just "childhood this and that" on the surface.

Recynon said:
They'd capture the serial killer, and no matter what sad backstory he has, he's still sentenced to life in jail.
in case you're asking, no Johan isn't innocent. He's a criminal. He's accountable for what he did. Too bad Monster isn't a show about arresting people and putting them on trial.
@TRC_Randy

"Johan was a eugenics product and was only like 5-7 years old when he first developed his ideals"

As I already explained, he was already messed up by the time he got to 511, so the eugenics have nothing to do with setting him on this path.

"so no, he's nowhere a "normal person""

Yeah my point is that he isn't, only what I mean is that there's something wrong with his brain chemistry to make him psychopathic.

"what? How's he just evil for the sake of evil? You've watched that video. He has his motivations and it's not just that."

As I already said, the evil he does is disproportionate to the reasons we're given for that evil. In other words, a large part of the evil he does is just a product of his choice and/or his biological nature as opposed to being largely a product of nurture.

"Nina experienced the deaths but she didn't see the mother's betrayal. JOHAN did. That's the point."

She was right there when her mother let go of her hand and she must've known her mother gave her up if she was the one in Red Rose Mansion.


"1. Monster isn't the classic detective/police show. It's a character-driven show and the only characters who embodies those elements are Lunge, Richard Braun and Suk which the latter two are only side characters and the latter of that doesn't appear until ep 43 (sure we can debate on "what makes a detective/police show" but compared to other anime i've seen that are truly from that category, Monster simply isn't one)."

I'm using the police show comparison to illustrate how unrealistic the logic of Monster is, because police shows show you more or less how these cases are handled in real life. And regardless of how character driven it is, the fact remains that the anime's focus on understanding Johan rather than taking him down is misplaced.

"2. I haven't actually seen that many "any crime show" myself but NO, those themes wouldn't look ludicrous at all. You see we tend to underestimate what childhood upbringing could do to us personally. Let alone society, let alone country, let alone the world. What happens irl doesn't even compare to our little enjoyment of irreal stories we get from the screens. EVERY normal person in this world knows what childhood upbringing is but few are AWARE of it. I'd go as far as saying that childhood upbringing and/or parental love or lackthereof is one of the major contributions to shaping our world as we see it today. So a little wake up call once in a while wouldn't hurt. Would be nice even. As cliche as it is. Unless that particular show screams parental love and such in every ep in the exact same manner, there is no issue but again that's an attack on the repetitiveness of the themes, not the themes themselves."

Please speak for yourself. I think it's pretty well known that having a bad childhood increases the chances of bad behavior as an adult, since this kind of analysis is known at least as early as Freud. See Evangelion (1995) which is all about parental trauma, and even then it was rehashing old things. It's also just a common saying for people to say, "who hurt you?" or "mommy didn't love you enough?"


"3. Are there that many shows or stories that came before Monster that do this tbw? (not in the animanga world that's for sure)."
Like I said, Eva focuses almost exclusively on childhood trauma. Utena does as well. I'd also say regardless, Monster was not the first to come up with this idea and it certainly didn't espouse this idea in any greater detail than the general trope itself. Other crime shows like Daredevil have come out after it that may not have originated the trope but certainly gave us much more detail as to how these psychopathic serial killers think outside of just "bad stuff happened to me/around me, so now I want to kill everyone".

"4. Isn't the "serial killer must be stopped" the predictable thing here?"

Apparently not because Tenma/Anna don't think about how to capture Johan to keep him from killing more people, and the whole focus of the show is investigating Johan's past rather than stopping him.

"5. Again, the betrayal thing. You might wanna focus on that instead of just "childhood this and that" on the surface."

Doesn't help much, as I already detailed. There's a jump from "my mother didn't love me" to "I don't care about human life and I want to kill people". As I said, the two main reasons are supposedly "my mother betrayed me" and "violent things happened around me" but those are pretty generic and they don't fully explain the scope of his behavior. I suppose it's subjective whether or not it constitutes depth but then you can't claim Johan stands out, per se, because like I said a bunch of other similar villains have the same backstory.

"Too bad Monster isn't a show about arresting people and putting them on trial."
It should be because then less people would've died. And if Johan was already in jail, the audience would realize that there's little point in watching the show anymore because there'd be even less of a point in understanding his backstory.
RecynonMay 16, 8:12 PM
May 16, 8:09 PM

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Oct 2019
6122
Reply to Stygian_Prisoner
@Blackfire2340
Sure, but narrative wise he isn't a villain at all.

@dankmitris
Morally I agree, but as @Blackfire2340 pointed out narrative wise he's not a villain.


What exactly do you guys mean when you say "narrative-wise"? It seems to me that the show very clearly and unambiguously frames Light as the villain of the story:


The script/dialogue also reflects this. To paraphrase an exchange from the end of Ep. 1:
Light - "I will create a new world where only good, earnest people live."
Ryuk - "But then you'll be the only evil person left."

The narrative doesn't celebrate Light's actions; it condemns them. Remember, "protagonist" does not necessarily equate to "hero/anti-hero", just as "antagonist" does not always equate to "villain".
Stygian_Prisoner said:
The script/dialogue also reflects this. To paraphrase an exchange from the end of Ep. 1:
Light - "I will create a new world where only good, earnest people live."
Ryuk - "But then you'll be the only evil person left."

The narrative doesn't celebrate Light's actions; it condemns them. Remember, "protagonist" does not necessarily equate to "hero/anti-hero", just as "antagonist" does not always equate to "villain".


Thank you, I'm glad someone understands this.

It's entirely about how the story frames the character, and light is 100% framed as a villain.
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May 16, 11:39 PM

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i say shigaraki from my hero academia he is so narrow minded and just wants to destroy everything but failing a lot
May 17, 12:18 AM
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Sep 2018
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My vote would be Sosuke Aizen..for all that hype not much of an final villian
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