| My vote to Yagami Light, academically gifted but he has a book that can kill people and gets caught. Interested on other opinions. |
| Madara... that last leg of naruto shippuden felt boring in comparison to pain etc |
can't yuck my yum  |
Probs former supreme leader of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Kim Jong-il. I mean, he's already dead, so he's kinda a non-issue now... in Mudazumo, the anime.  This is a historically accurate depiction of Kim Jong-il playing mahjong |
Daviljoe193May 15, 1:52 AM
Opinions are opinions, and differing opinions can co-exist. 🙂 But I don't do debate, life's too short to spend time debating people.    |
| Muzan, he is joke lmao Even uppermoons got more characterization than him |
| @dankmitris Nah, anti-heroes don't kill innocent people for their own convenience. Light became a villain the moment he decided it was okay to kill detectives and investigators who were just doing their job, so that he could avoid getting caught. |
| Definitely Johan Liebert from Monster. |
 |
Reply to Stygian_Prisoner
@dankmitris
Nah, anti-heroes don't kill innocent people for their own convenience. Light became a villain the moment he decided it was okay to kill detectives and investigators who were just doing their job, so that he could avoid getting caught.
Nah, anti-heroes don't kill innocent people for their own convenience. Light became a villain the moment he decided it was okay to kill detectives and investigators who were just doing their job, so that he could avoid getting caught.
| @Stygian_Prisoner Sure, but narrative wise he isn't a villain at all. |
 |
Reply to Serafos
Definitely Johan Liebert from Monster.
| @Serafos I agree he's overrated, but there are far more overrated villains IMO. Doflamingo for example is a pretty popular villain but he's not half the character Johan is. Im out of touch nowadays with Mainstream anime but I think Aizen's pretty overrated like a lot of battle shonen villains. |
Jackof-allspadesMay 15, 1:30 AM
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| https://myanimelist.net/character/3694/Freeza |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| Bondrewd from Made in Abyss. I mean he is cool as fuck and I like how he does everything for science but I don't think he's an all timer like people used to say he was especially since he lacks screentime |
 |
| https://myanimelist.net/character/122103/Tomura_Shigaraki His introduction at the end of S1 is straight up garbage and its apparently why the show became populer ....To be precise its just a 3 epesode out of nowhere fight scenes that drags and still somehow end up rushed |
Reply to NoelleIsSleepy
Madara... that last leg of naruto shippuden felt boring in comparison to pain etc
| this, basically they are not actually overrated tbh cuz no one really talks about them nearly as much as they do Pain or Orochimaru |
 obscureanimefan said: I think little girls are sexy. |
| I found Vicious from Cowboy Bebop to be so boring. |
 |
Reply to Abomination_suah
Muzan, he is joke lmao
Even uppermoons got more characterization than him
Even uppermoons got more characterization than him
| @Abomination_suah who tf rates muzan |
 |
| Askeladd Bondrewd Btw what the hell is "anti-hero" and what is an anime example of it? |
Animeinsight101 said: anyone know if I can say the N-word on this app? You mean knee-gar? You can, but you gotta be creative. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
Reply to Serafos
Definitely Johan Liebert from Monster.
| @Serafos ^ I'm not going to choose a villain who's obviously not liked by many (like Muzan, etc) Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special |
Reply to TRC_Randy
Askeladd
Bondrewd
Btw what the hell is "anti-hero" and what is an anime example of it?
Bondrewd
Btw what the hell is "anti-hero" and what is an anime example of it?
| @TRC_Randy This is one of my favourite channels on youtube, and this is a really good video on the topic: |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
Reply to Nanami0007
@Serafos ^
I'm not going to choose a villain who's obviously not liked by many (like Muzan, etc)
Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special
I'm not going to choose a villain who's obviously not liked by many (like Muzan, etc)
Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special
| @Nanami0007 but he IS special tho. No other villain is like Johan. |
| Idk I like most of the villains that people talk about as much as everyone else. Maybe Johan? it's hard to say cause I think he is a REALLY GOOD villain. I just don't see the "easily best of all time" myself, there are a decent amount of villains in anime that I consider just as good or better than him. He's not even my favourite character from monster, I liked grimmer more. Still though, I find it a bit dumb to complain about a character that I think is absolutely amazing being overrated. It's the difference of me being like "he's one of the best villains in anime" vs "top 5 best villains in all of fiction". I guess I just didn't see him as scary as a lot of other people did, I'm going to get massacred for saying this, but the way the id:invaded protagonist used talk no jutsu was FAR more terrifying and manipulative imo. and that was meant to be the good guy! I appreciate how well written he is, but as I said I think that goes for every important character in stories written by urasawa. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
Reply to Nanami0007
@Serafos ^
I'm not going to choose a villain who's obviously not liked by many (like Muzan, etc)
Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special
I'm not going to choose a villain who's obviously not liked by many (like Muzan, etc)
Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special
Nanami0007 said: Johan on the other hand is thought to be the best villain by many, and he's nothing special I see why you would think this. What makes Johan such an incredible villain isn't really as obvious as a lot of other types of characters. Johan is evil, but there is a very distinct difference between him and every other villain that makes him so terrifying, and that's the fact that he's indifferent. Not only he knows the perfect way to eat at someone's life, and make them terrified to their very core, he also does it with no sense of satisfaction. He isn't just a bad guy, he is the perfect reincarnation of Satan in human flesh. And the fact that his role in monster is at least partly proving Tenma wrong, his character could not have been any more perfect for the job. The "you should have killed me when you had the chance" has never been more meaningful before or since monster. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
Reply to APolygons2
@TRC_Randy
This is one of my favourite channels on youtube, and this is a really good video on the topic:
This is one of my favourite channels on youtube, and this is a really good video on the topic:
| @APolygons2 kay i'm gonna watch this later. |
| @Blackfire2340 Sure, but narrative wise he isn't a villain at all. @dankmitris Morally I agree, but as @Blackfire2340 pointed out narrative wise he's not a villain. What exactly do you guys mean when you say "narrative-wise"? It seems to me that the show very clearly and unambiguously frames Light as the villain of the story:  The script/dialogue also reflects this. To paraphrase an exchange from the end of Ep. 1: Light - "I will create a new world where only good, earnest people live." Ryuk - "But then you'll be the only evil person left." The narrative doesn't celebrate Light's actions; it condemns them. Remember, "protagonist" does not necessarily equate to "hero/anti-hero", just as "antagonist" does not always equate to "villain". |
| Still no mention of Meruem? The thing that was supposedly a scripted threat to mankind was just playing chess the whole time against a human and couldn't even win, then got smashed by another human like a fly. And that's it. That was his entire career as a villain. |
| griffith BY FAR. i like berserk and everything but the manga has many many flaws, especially griffith. everyone keeps saying he's such a complex villain but I feel like they're only saying that because he just doesn't "look" evil at first glance. he's so robotic and nothing he does even makes sense, he's not as layered or complex as everyone says he is. he's similar to johan where people just automatically say he's an amazing villain cuz he doesn't look like the conventional scary looking villains we're used to and he's quiet. when in reality he just *does* stuff. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Reply to TRC_Randy
Askeladd
Bondrewd
Btw what the hell is "anti-hero" and what is an anime example of it?
Bondrewd
Btw what the hell is "anti-hero" and what is an anime example of it?
| @TRC_Randy an anti-hero is someone who wants to do the right thing but sometimes goes about it in an evil/conventionally non-heroic way. Like killing, stealing, manipulating etc,. Or an anti-hero is just someone who isn't the conventional "hero" like superman. Like he's an alcoholic, he likes lying, cheating etc,. usually the main difference of an anti-hero and a villain is an anti-hero will never willingly go as far as killing an innocent life. an example is eren jeager because he wants to do the right thing but he does it in an evil way (killing other people, taking advantage of others.) but tbh by the end of aot he's just a straight villain. also guts because sometimes he helps people but he also insults them at the same time or kills a lot of people in the middle of it. |
Kenzolo-folkMay 15, 3:16 PM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Probably Frieza from Dragon Ball Z imo... |
| Definitely Johan Liebert from Monster. x2 |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
Reply to Zarutaku
| @Zarutaku I don't think there is any villain more overrated. Meruem may be a close 2nd. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Recynon
Definitely Johan. He's a psychopathic murderer, plenty of those around. Plenty of villains don't care about who they murder. I guess what distinguishes him is that he's able to manipulate people so easily but that doesn't necessarily make him a great villain, especially when half the time his manipulations are unexplained. And no, it being unexplained doesn't make it better it just makes it cheap.
Recynon said: nah he's actually so much more than that.Definitely Johan. He's a psychopathic murderer, plenty of those around. Plenty of villains don't care about who they murder. |
Reply to Recynon
@TRC_Randy I'd love to hear it then. I've searched up posts about him but for the most part the details we're given are too vague to amount to anything concrete. I also think his actions are too extreme for his backstory to add any nuance to his total evilness.
Recynon said: except he's not totally evil. He SEEMED that way only until his total evilness. |
TRC_RandyMay 15, 9:50 PM
| Are people that have morals just moralfags btw? |
| Madara. Bro was built up so much just to let us down so bad |
Recynon said: Johan was a eugenics product and was only like 5-7 years old when he first developed his ideals so no, he's nowhere a "normal person".So if I'm getting this right, before his memories returned, all he remembered was the murders at the Red Rose Mansion (I'm discounting the experiences at 511 because they explicitly say that he was already a monster before that, so it wouldn't have changed his murderous ways). Supposedly remembering a murder spree (which he didn't even experience himself) doesn't necessarily nurture someone into being a psychopathic serial killer. The choice was still his to become that, and/or he already had clinical psychopathy. A normal person can react a number of ways to this trauma that would have a negative impact on their life but not necessarily take the route of being anything close to a killer. Even if he was, i still don't see the problem here. It COULD happen. Recynon said: what? How's he just evil for the sake of evil? You've watched that video. He has his motivations and it's not just that.After he regains his memories he's still largely killing a whole bunch of people including an entire town. I don't see how him handing some money to a prostitute makes a dent on the fact that he's an extremely evil person on the whole. Yes, I wouldn't be correct to say that he's TOTALLY evil but what I meant was that his actions are so depraved that he's essentially just evil for the sake of evil. Recynon said: Nina experienced the deaths but she didn't see the mother's betrayal. JOHAN did. That's the point.For example, seeing a murder spree and/or being abandoned by his mother are certainly traumatic events but none of them even necessarily drive a person to do harm on others, let alone become a psychopathic serial killer. They don't even necessarily lead to a nihilistic outlook, and even then, a nihilistic outlook doesn't necessarily mean being a murderer. "Life has no meaning" =/= "I want to kill people". Hell, Nina was the one that ACTUALLY got abandoned and ACTUALLY saw the Red Rose Mansion murders and she didn't become a killer. Recynon said: Idk man, there's a lot of wrongs here:That's not to say that these events CAN'T lead someone like Johan to do what he did, but even then, all it would amount to is "childhood trauma and exposure to violence fucks you up" which is not saying anything new, nuanced, nor original. If I watch any random crime show and there's a serial killer, yeah, my first assumption would be that he had some fucked up childhood experience and/or he's psychopathic. But that's not the main point of those shows. The main point is the serial killer has to be stopped because they're actively killing people. Same thing with Monster, except Monster makes a big deal out of the mystery of why Johan is doing what he did and in the end what little it gives are pretty predictable reasons like lack of parental love and violent experiences, instead of just focusing on taking down Johan so he wouldn't kill more people. This would look completely ludicrous in any detective/police show, 1. Monster isn't the classic detective/police show. It's a character-driven show and the only characters who embodies those elements are Lunge, Richard Braun and Suk which the latter two are only side characters and the latter of that doesn't appear until ep 43 (sure we can debate on "what makes a detective/police show" but compared to other anime i've seen that are truly from that category, Monster simply isn't one). 2. I haven't actually seen that many "any crime show" myself but NO, those themes wouldn't look ludicrous at all. You see we tend to underestimate what childhood upbringing could do to us personally. Let alone society, let alone country, let alone the world. What happens irl doesn't even compare to our little enjoyment of irreal stories we get from the screens. EVERY normal person in this world knows what childhood upbringing is but few are AWARE of it. I'd go as far as saying that childhood upbringing and/or parental love or lackthereof is one of the major contributions to shaping our world as we see it today. So a little wake up call once in a while wouldn't hurt. Would be nice even. As cliche as it is. Unless that particular show screams parental love and such in every ep in the exact same manner, there is no issue but again that's an attack on the repetitiveness of the themes, not the themes themselves. 3. Are there that many shows or stories that came before Monster that do this tbw? (not in the animanga world that's for sure). 4. Isn't the "serial killer must be stopped" the predictable thing here? 5. Again, the betrayal thing. You might wanna focus on that instead of just "childhood this and that" on the surface. Recynon said: in case you're asking, no Johan isn't innocent. He's a criminal. He's accountable for what he did. Too bad Monster isn't a show about arresting people and putting them on trial.They'd capture the serial killer, and no matter what sad backstory he has, he's still sentenced to life in jail. |
TRC_RandyMay 16, 5:54 PM
| Like other people in this thread, I wasnt moved by Johan Liebert from Monster. I need to continue or even rewatch the show (stopped watching since it was kind of a dull, boring experience, stopped watching circa episode 42) and see if I change my opinion. |
VaixenMay 16, 8:00 PM
 |
| Wait I actually remembered a villain that I think is really overrated. Father from fmab "but he isn't even that liked, people just think he's fine" you may say. I say know, that walking plot hole of a 1 dimensional, self contradictory nonsense of a villain is not ok, he is dogshit. specially in comparison to good most of the characters writing in that show he single handily made the show be an 8/10 to me instead of a 9 or a 10. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
Reply to Stygian_Prisoner
@Blackfire2340
@dankmitris
What exactly do you guys mean when you say "narrative-wise"? It seems to me that the show very clearly and unambiguously frames Light as the villain of the story:
The script/dialogue also reflects this. To paraphrase an exchange from the end of Ep. 1:
Light - "I will create a new world where only good, earnest people live."
Ryuk - "But then you'll be the only evil person left."
The narrative doesn't celebrate Light's actions; it condemns them. Remember, "protagonist" does not necessarily equate to "hero/anti-hero", just as "antagonist" does not always equate to "villain".
Sure, but narrative wise he isn't a villain at all.
@dankmitris
Morally I agree, but as @Blackfire2340 pointed out narrative wise he's not a villain.
What exactly do you guys mean when you say "narrative-wise"? It seems to me that the show very clearly and unambiguously frames Light as the villain of the story:
The script/dialogue also reflects this. To paraphrase an exchange from the end of Ep. 1:
Light - "I will create a new world where only good, earnest people live."
Ryuk - "But then you'll be the only evil person left."
The narrative doesn't celebrate Light's actions; it condemns them. Remember, "protagonist" does not necessarily equate to "hero/anti-hero", just as "antagonist" does not always equate to "villain".
Stygian_Prisoner said: The script/dialogue also reflects this. To paraphrase an exchange from the end of Ep. 1: Light - "I will create a new world where only good, earnest people live." Ryuk - "But then you'll be the only evil person left." The narrative doesn't celebrate Light's actions; it condemns them. Remember, "protagonist" does not necessarily equate to "hero/anti-hero", just as "antagonist" does not always equate to "villain". Thank you, I'm glad someone understands this. It's entirely about how the story frames the character, and light is 100% framed as a villain. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
| i say shigaraki from my hero academia he is so narrow minded and just wants to destroy everything but failing a lot |
| There is no such thing as an over-rated anime villain tbh... |
TRC_RandyMay 17, 7:38 PM
#1. Johan Liebert from Monster. I think the major issue is how many people who watched the series say he is the prime example of intelligent villains, but I disagree to an extent. His supposed intelligence is an implication of the narrative similar to Moriarty's intelligence from BBC's Sherlock; instead of being told the how and the why, we only ever see the end results of the supposed evil machinations of these villains. We are simply told these villains are intelligent by the things they accomplish, but never how they accomplish them. It is wizardry. To me, this praise misunderstands Johan's role in the story. He is not meant to be a typical villain hounding at Tenma's footsteps, but a concept of pure evil who exists as the biggest wrench in Tenma's worldview on good and evil. The story serves partially to further mystify Johan rather than unmasking him, at least until the very end. It asks where does someone like Johan arise from, begging the question if Johan can actually exist as everyone else imagines him. He is intelligent, yes, but not so in a way meant to be compelling for the audience, for us to gasp and ask "how does he accomplish such great feats" before filling us in at the last moment. His intelligence and charisma is an informed character trait to service his overall role in the story of a beyond human evil, an evil so beyond human malevolence that their sheer existence defies convention. So no, he is not meant to be a criminal mastermind in a play of minds between him and Tenma; the crux of Monster's narrative centers around the moral struggles of the various characters, particularly Tenma and Anna, not on them trying to outwit him. #2. The Major from Hellsing. His speech has often been cited as being...charismatic(?), but all it really communicates is that he likes war. It says nothing else, and I fail to see why this would make him a compelling villain. Well-written speech? Perhaps, but ultimately it says little.  #3. Sukuna  Recency bias of the last few chapters, but I honestly think the manga at this point jerks him off a bit too much. He is a great villain, but man is he being stretched out. Maybe this is just me being nonplussed by the manga, but honestly? I think maybe my issue is that the author is overrating him, rather than the audience. Weird situation all around. |
PeripheralVisionMay 17, 8:27 PM
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