Ryuk9428 said: Ari4 said: Not everyone cant afford to go vegan or vegetarian honey. So stop talking about this bullshit if you aren't gonna do anything about it. That is absolute horseshit and one of the stupidest arguments I've unfortunately heard quite often from people. Meat is fucking expensive as hell, if anything, going vegetarian is a cost saving lifestyle. Yeah I mean if you think that meat eaters eat prime rib every day and that vegans can survive off of picking berries. Chicken and eggs are incredibly cheap and nutritious, they're the staple foods of the working class. And fresh produce is incredibly expensive. Maybe the poor can survive on lentils and rice I guess but the cost to benefit on meat is one of the biggest reasons why more people don't turn vegan. |
  ｍａｌ'ｓ ＣＹＢＥＲ ｒａｃｃｏｏｎ ＣＹＢＥＲ ｂｏｏｐ ! ｆｒｏｍ ｔｈｅ ｄｉｓｔａｎｔ ｙｅａｒ ｏｆ ２０２６ ｔｈｅＣＹＢＥＲ ｐｏｌｉｃｅ ａｒｅ ａｆｔｅｒ ｍｅ ! |
Ryuk9428 said: 149597871 said: What is animal life though? Your dog? The cow living in a factory? The rats in the sewers? The spiders on your wall? The brain-eating amoebas living in the water? Ask yourself whether it is practically possible to treat all those species the same way we treat humans. That was a pretty common occurrence until recently. However, in modern times, making peace with another country is often more beneficial than going to war against them. On the other hand, I doubt you can say the same thing about making peace with chickens or cows. I'd choose the criminal because I have principles, but everyone is free to decide for themselves. Yes that is all animal life. I don't see why it isn't practical to treat them as human life. If you are talking about accidental deaths, humans die from accidental deaths as well that we all know nothing can be done about. Yes the scenery I described was honestly standard procedure in the Ancient world (not as recent as you seem to think though). Mainly because Ancient societies did not value the lives of people outside of their own nations at all. The reason we don't behave that way anymore is not just because it is beneficial to make peace, it is because we have decided that it is wrong to treat people that way because of the nation they belong to. And none of us want to return to the Ancient standard of morality where harsh, might makes right philosophy ruled the world. Unfortunately, however, many humans continue that philosophy in the way they treat animals simply because those animals cannot fight back. So I can't 1v1 even the spider on the wall for example? :( The problem is that with so many humans suffering around the world, I can't really think about the well-being of spiders that often. Should we go out of our way to torture or eradicate them for no reason? No, but I can't see how I can possibly treat all animal species the same way I treat humans. Imperialism was also a thing until fairly recently. I'd say there are still some countries with imperialistic tendencies. One of them happens to be a totalitarian superpower. |
149597871Sep 22, 2020 11:53 PM
Voxel- said: Ryuk9428 said: That is absolute horseshit and one of the stupidest arguments I've unfortunately heard quite often from people. Meat is fucking expensive as hell, if anything, going vegetarian is a cost saving lifestyle. Yeah I mean if you think that meat eaters eat prime rib every day and that vegans can survive off of picking berries. Chicken and eggs are incredibly cheap and nutritious, they're the staple foods of the working class. And fresh produce is incredibly expensive. Maybe the poor can survive on lentils and rice I guess but the cost to benefit on meat is one of the biggest reasons why more people don't turn vegan. Vegan isn't the same as vegetarian. A pack of pasta is like $1.50 at the grocery store and gives you 3 meals. A frozen pizza, about $5. Shredded carrots are $2. A pack of broccoli can be bought for $3-$5. 15 oz of canned corn was 65 cents. Pretty much all the meat products I looked at on Kroger's website were between $5-$12 unless we are talking about bacon strips which aren't really a meal. Everybody thinks meat is expensive until they get into a conversation with a vegetarian and suddenly its "but what about the poor? They can't afford to stop eating meat." But that's just hogwash because meat is currently and always has been the most expensive type of food on Earth. 149597871 said: Ryuk9428 said: Yes that is all animal life. I don't see why it isn't practical to treat them as human life. If you are talking about accidental deaths, humans die from accidental deaths as well that we all know nothing can be done about. Yes the scenery I described was honestly standard procedure in the Ancient world (not as recent as you seem to think though). Mainly because Ancient societies did not value the lives of people outside of their own nations at all. The reason we don't behave that way anymore is not just because it is beneficial to make peace, it is because we have decided that it is wrong to treat people that way because of the nation they belong to. And none of us want to return to the Ancient standard of morality where harsh, might makes right philosophy ruled the world. Unfortunately, however, many humans continue that philosophy in the way they treat animals simply because those animals cannot fight back. So I can't 1v1 even the spider on the wall for example? :( The problem is that with so many humans suffering around the world, I can't really think about the well-being of spiders that often. Should we go out of our way to torture or eradicate them for no reason? No, but I can't see how I can possibly treat all animal species the same way I treat humans. Imperialism was also a thing until fairly recently. I'd say there are still some countries with imperialistic tendencies. One of them happens to be a totalitarian superpower Mainly because its not an either or thing. In choosing to take a spider outside instead of killing him/her, your time is not being taken away from saving a starving child in Africa or even helping a old lady in your own town cross the street. Your time is not actually being taken away from anything important, you are just taking a little time out of your schedule to become a better person by minimizing the extent to which you cause suffering to other creatures. |
Ryuk9428Sep 23, 2020 12:16 AM
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Ryuk9428 said: Unbelievable levels of callousness. "They exist to die for my benefit." You know, sometimes I start wondering if my morals and the way I see the world really is fucked up and everybody else is right. Then I come across threads like these where 90% of posters clearly do not see the value of animal life whatsoever and I realize there's nothing wrong with me, there's something wrong with everybody else. I went vegetarian when I was 6 years old because I was viscerally disgusted to learn of what we were doing. I felt like a fucking cannibal, and yet somehow, nobody else had that reaction to learning the truth that I did. What is wrong with this species? They literally do though, like it's undeniable. Wild cows, wild pigs (the type we eat, not boars, though those too honestly for the most part), and wild chickens basically no longer exist and even if humans didnt ranch them they would have gone fully extinct ages ago. They LITERALLY exist for our benefit, because if they didn't benefit us we simply would not breed them anymore, nor give them any land to live. The only real free-roaming land we have is for ranches and those would be changed to farmland or housing developments and so on, and the only thing left would be forests. Cows don't live in forests, they'd also just die immediately if we suddenly freed them all into those forests because predators live there and cows aren't exactly known for their great survival methods. LIVESTOCK exist solely due to us, they literally only still are a species on this planet because of humans wanting them to eat them. It's not callousness, it's just the truth. Humans played God in a lighter way than that phrase usually is used and now there are creatures that exist solely because we want to use them. That's life. If you want to debate me on like how I feel about WHEN IT FIRST STARTED, that's a DIFFERENT discussion, but in the current time and for many thousands of years, livestock was bred specifically for being a food asset. Arguing for them to not be treated that way is just a non-argument because, again, they simply would not BE if they were not used for that purpose. I prefer them to be treated as """humanely""" as possible, which I know is still not humane, but in the end yes. They only even exist because we eat them, if we stopped eating them they would no longer exist because we'd have no reason to provide them shelter, food, and also the fucking climate change retards would come to murder them anyway for farting and destroying the atmosphere. Livestock animals only exist because humans eating them. Would you rather genocide an entire species than let it be bred as an asset? I wouldn't, because I don't fucking care, it's a resource, not a pet plus I'd be sad to be in a world without cows; though you'll probably say something like yes because then they won't suffer - but hey, I feel that way about certain human races so should we get back into that discussion? Is genocide suddenly acceptable? If you value animal life so much then you should be bitterly accepting of ranching and the purpose it inevitably serves because the other option is complete decimation of entire species. I somehow found myself going out with a vegan recently and had this same discussion before I dumped them for unrelated reasons, but it's interesting timing. Their only arguments were also just wah wah but its mean, who fucking cares if it's mean, it's one of the biggest reasons mankind has survived this long and modern civilization came to exist. That and slavery, and I'd be fine if we started that back up too. Sorry for being higher on the fucking food chain and part of the only species smart enough to capture, domesticate, and breed things just to slaughter them for food resources, lol. Maybe it is callousness but it's the same type of callousness all animals have for those they prey upon. We just do it in a more manufactured style system but all animals do the same shit in the end. It's just easier to look at what we do and claim it's different because we do it in buildings and intelligently enough to so things like modify genetics. We make it look uglier but it's the same shit. But unlike animals we have to provide for more than ourselves and our little family or tribal group so we do it in mass quantities too. Again, same shit, just presented different. All living things use what they're capable of to obtain food and comfort and safety. We happen to be able to do that better than sitting in some plains for 12 hours half starving for days hoping a buffalo comes and doesn't kill us first and that we use our speed and agility to kill them. Instead we use controlled breeding and raising and slaughterhouses and trucks and so on. Animals all have their own secret weapons that help them survive. Humans were given intellect and ingenuity instead of.giant claws, super eyesight, or being able to run as fast as a car. Do you seriously think if a bear could genetically modify deer so if it killed one it'd last for months for it's whole family instead of one meal or create an infinite supply of food for itself and it's cubs it wouldn't because that's be mean? I see no issue. Life all uses their special evolved abilities to exploit resources from creatures that cannot overcome those abilities. Humans aren't special in doing that. |
TallonKarrde23Sep 23, 2020 4:30 AM
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| I'm eating Cheeseburger while reading this thread lol. Applying human morality to animals makes no sense, that would be like calling vegans plant murders for eating plants. TallonKarrde23 said: LIVESTOCK exist solely due to us, they literally only still are a species on this planet because of humans wanting them to eat them. It's not callousness, it's just the truth. Humans played God in a lighter way than that phrase usually is used and now there are creatures that exist solely because we want to use them. That's life. If you want to debate me on like how I feel about WHEN IT FIRST STARTED, that's a DIFFERENT discussion, but in the current time and for many thousands of years, livestock was bred specifically for being a food asset. Everyone becomes a livestock once you're part of the chosen people. @Ryuk9428 This explains why you have trouble getting laid vegans have a low energy. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/vegan-body-changes-what-happens-no-meat-dairy-physiology-a8027991.html Maybe If you lay off soy and introduce some healthy dose of proteins in your diet and get rid off that hippie attitude you'd get some biches on your dick. Otherwise I can see switch in your future. |
FreeThoughtSep 23, 2020 5:36 AM
 “There is great satisfaction in fighting for the sake of gaining power, but it’s joyless to fight for the sake of maintaining it.” – Reinhard Von Lohengramm |
| livestock must be punished seriously. |
FreeThought said: I'm eating Cheeseburger while reading this thread lol. Applying human morality to animals makes no sense, that would be like calling vegans plant murders for eating plants. TallonKarrde23 said: LIVESTOCK exist solely due to us, they literally only still are a species on this planet because of humans wanting them to eat them. It's not callousness, it's just the truth. Humans played God in a lighter way than that phrase usually is used and now there are creatures that exist solely because we want to use them. That's life. If you want to debate me on like how I feel about WHEN IT FIRST STARTED, that's a DIFFERENT discussion, but in the current time and for many thousands of years, livestock was bred specifically for being a food asset. Everyone becomes a livestock once you're part of the chosen people. @Ryuk9428 This explains why you have trouble getting laid vegans have a low energy. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/vegan-body-changes-what-happens-no-meat-dairy-physiology-a8027991.html Maybe If you lay off soy and introduce some healthy dose of proteins in your diet and get rid off that hippie attitude you'd get some biches on your dick. Otherwise I can see switch in your future. I'm done trying to redpill your delusional ass. Quite frankly, you deserve the cold, heartless, might makes right world that you want to create. Enjoy getting falsely accused of rape someday because you decided to "man up." Meanwhile, I am going to fulfill my sexual needs with beautiful, kawaii sex dolls and strippers until I find a nice, trad girl with good values preferably from a foreign country. |
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| Every single meat-eater should be held accountable? What? |
 _______I like rocks__  |
SargonTheGreat said: Ryuk9428 said: Might does make right though it always has, no offense but sex dolls and strippers are cringe celibacy until marriage is ideal.I'm done trying to redpill your delusional ass. Quite frankly, you deserve the cold, heartless, might makes right world that you want to create. Enjoy getting falsely accused of rape someday because you decided to "man up." Meanwhile, I am going to fulfill my sexual needs with beautiful, kawaii sex dolls and strippers until I find a nice, trad girl with good values preferably from a foreign country. Might makes right turns your country into Afghanistan or Somalia. If @FreeThought wants to choose Somalian values where the strongman with the biggest AK-47 gets all the power and chicks and no one can tell him no then be my guest, but I choose Japanese values where the might makes right philosophy has been explicitly rejected through kawaii culture. Kawaii culture is literally the complete opposite of might makes right philosophy. Might makes right looks at a weak, vulnerable person and decides "I'm gonna abuse/exploit/kill you." Kawaii culture means looking at a weak, vulnerable person and deciding "aw, I wanna protect you." |
Ryuk9428Sep 23, 2020 3:32 PM
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SargonTheGreat said: Ryuk9428 said: Heres an example of might makes right, Nazi Germany and the USSR both evil we can agree on that right? ok so why is the swastika ingrained as an evil symbol into our brains and why do most people have such a distinct reaction to it as opposed to the communist hammer and sickle? its because the USSR was with the winning team so they basically got a free pass and the fact that they were just as evil as the nazis isn't known by the average normie. In that case might made right and have you heard of the Waco seige? Many people were killed (including children) by feds but most people dont know about this horrible events since the winner (the feds) gets to write the summary of events like these and paint themselves as heros.Might makes right turns your country into Afghanistan or Somalia. If @FreeThought wants to go live in Somalia where the strongman with the biggest AK-47 gets all the power and chicks and no one can tell him no then be my guest, but I choose Japan where the might makes right philosophy has been explicitly rejected through kawaii culture. Kawaii culture is literally the complete opposite of might makes right philosophy. Might makes right looks at a weak, vulnerable person and decides "I'm gonna abuse/exploit/kill you." Kawaii culture means looking at a weak, vulnerable person and deciding "aw, I wanna protect you." The Soviet Union does have a distinct reaction though? If you say "that is Soviet Union like" people will instantly associate it with poverty and totalitarianism. The Mongol Empire is possibly the most successful nation that has ever existed, nobody in history has accumulated more power than the Mongol Empire did but most people do not look at the Mongols fondly, they associate them with cruelty, pyramids of skulls, and barbarism. |
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| You need to hold animals accountable as well, they are very vicious with their killings also #sarcasm. Look, I don't two shits about some fucking pigs or cows who's sole purpose in this world is feeding the human race. That's their role in life, deal with it. Being a piece of shit to a domesticated house pet is another story. |
Ryuk9428 said: I'm done trying to redpill your delusional ass. Quite frankly, you deserve the cold, heartless, might makes right world that you want to create. Enjoy getting falsely accused of rape someday because you decided to "man up." Meanwhile, I am going to fulfill my sexual needs with beautiful, kawaii sex dolls and strippers until I find a nice, trad girl with good values preferably from a foreign country. This is a strawman and projection, I never advocated for might makes right world. I believe in freedom that means you can do whatever you want as long as you're not infringing on freedom of others. This is the core of libertarian philosophy and morality. In fact you are the one who was advocating for government ministry of love's AI to force people to date each other. You know what happens when you disagree with their choice? They send men with guns to either kill you or put you in a cage. If this isn't might makes it right I don't know what is. You know what is going to happen when you bring your sugar babe to west? She is going to divorce you and take half of your stuff and put you on the alimony while falsely accusing you of abuse. Asian women find white men attractive as they are consider higher in status and income. They are even more hypergamous than western women. If Asian are so much better, why men in Japan and Korean are among the first turn to herbivore and hikikomori. Don't be fool ! Remember, it doesn't matter if she's from the 3rd world or from the West, female nature is universal. Plus the women's movement is slowly gaining ground in these countries. It's only a matter of time before the women in the poor countries is as undesirable as those in the West. You are exactly the type of a person that Japanese people don't want in their country. Jump to 3:58 mark. Ryuk9428 said: Might makes right turns your country into Afghanistan or Somalia. If @FreeThought wants to choose Somalian values where the strongman with the biggest AK-47 gets all the power and chicks and no one can tell him no then be my guest, but I choose Japanese values where the might makes right philosophy has been explicitly rejected through kawaii culture. Kawaii culture is literally the complete opposite of might makes right philosophy. Might makes right looks at a weak, vulnerable person and decides "I'm gonna abuse/exploit/kill you." Kawaii culture means looking at a weak, vulnerable person and deciding "aw, I wanna protect you." More like de evolution of Japanese culture. In Japan there is an idiom to describe the situation like this: “haisenkoku no matsuro”, literally means “the fate of the defeated country”. Anime was a mistake. |
“There is great satisfaction in fighting for the sake of gaining power, but it’s joyless to fight for the sake of maintaining it.” – Reinhard Von Lohengramm |
| Well this is fucking cruel why the fuck r u skinning them alive atleast let them die then u can do what u want but mother fuckers skinning them alive is cruel bruh I am not a vegetarian though lol |
Xickonaut said: I don’t think about where my food comes from for the same reason I buy things that were made in China. I realize that the product was probably made in some sweatshop, but what am I going to do about it? I don’t have time to worry about that sort of thing. I can’t really afford to go vegan either. This post is just an opportunity for you too grandstand. I second this. Besides, eating meat for feeding has nothing to do with animal cruelty. The industry doesn't HAVE to be cruel. There are researches on how to improve animal treatment in food industry, but people prefer cruelty because it's cheaper and allows mass production. |
| I don't know and I don't care, meat is good, I like meat, it's my fav vegetable |
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| There's a few reasons. Obviously I don't agree with it. But people will do it because they don't know how to control their anger or they need to have a sense of power over something. I feel like those are the pretty basic reasons. |
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| Ah, another thread demonizing meat eaters. Forgive me for poking the bear with a stick, but this argument is not going to get anyone on your side. People don’t appreciate it when they’re talked down to by someone else. If you can’t talk on equal footing, then y’all need Jesus. Feel free to roast me at your own risk, I could care less. |
TallonKarrde23 said: Imagine putting a label on an animal to excuse torturing them.These animals only exist for the purpose of being used as food - they are a resource, not a pet, not a wild animal. They literally would not have been born or experienced life if not for us eating them. I feel no shame or guilt in giving something existence regardless of how it ends if it's entire reason it was given life was to end a certain way. I love animals, I donate what I can to the ASPCA often, I want to one day own a cow (ironically, as a pet) and I took training to be a veterinarian technician for awhile though it didn't pan out due to my mental issues making me have to stop any sort of education. But these are food resources, just like carrots and potatoes, trying to whine about slaughterhouses and a lack of humanitarian anything (killing something can't be very humanitarian no matter how you do it, really), just doesn't really fucking apply. These are not animals, they're livestock. Livestock is a word for a reason - which is specifically TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN ANIMALS and ASSETS. Cows, pigs, chickens; these are ASSETS not ANIMALS. Animals, or as you call them, 'not-animal' livestock, are not similar to carrots... People eat dogs in some countries, it's a 'food resource', are you going to say you're okay with that because they're apparently not an animal anymore? I doubt it because you've posted a load of bias. If you kill an animal, they can't reproduce, they cannot populate, and they cannot experience life. I have no idea why you said killing them is the reason they are born. They would've been born regardless. They won't go extinct if we stop mass-producing and eating them, strange, I know. Hunting animals are only okay (never will be humane no matter how you word it) if people need to do this to survive and feed their own family. If you live in an economic urban country and are not struggling financially for food, you seriously have no reason to support the killing of anything. If you like your meat, sure, just don't go and write a paragraph about how you don't care about their suffering for they are just mere objects. It's disgusting. |
BunilleSep 26, 2020 6:21 AM
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| I think that animals shouldn't be killed for no reason and that we shouldn't torture them if we want to consume their meat. butchering animals should be quick so that they don't suffer. I don't see anything wrong with consuming meat since humans are mostly made of proteins, and animal proteins are the most important proteins in building our body. and many children, old people or sick people need animal meat for various reasons so eating meat is inevitable at some point, we just shouldn't let animals suffer when butchering them. |
  "elles sont bien noires les pensées des nuits blanches"  |
| oh boy more vegan illogical nonsense. people eat because they must live, but animal cruelty is factored in with you don't need to kick a cat minding it's own business. you don't need to glue a dog to the ground. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
Katapullt said: 149597871 said: I don't care that you eat meat, I only care if you eat meat and simultaneously get outraged at animal cruelty. It pisses me of so much I suggest we slaughter all species who have the temerity to eat meat. That's seems like the most humane thing to do. Ok, I'll remember to kick every cat and dog I meet from now on. Does it make you happier? Do you feel like you have the moral high ground you're so desperately looking for? hazarddex said: oh boy more vegan illogical nonsense. people eat because they must live, but animal cruelty is factored in with you don't need to kick a cat minding it's own business. you don't need to glue a dog to the ground. Actually I'll try to glue the next animal I meet to please OP, thanks for the idea! |
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| Than should we force animals from eating other animals? No, right? Humans are animals too. Why is it just us that has to stop eating meat? Morally incorrect? Morals are just opinions, they are not real. |
| 汝臣民ノ信仰心ニヨリ、生キ返リマシタ。明治天皇デアリマス。 |
| if eating meat is evil then you better kill every single carnivore on the planet. @FreeThought Anime was a mistake. you can leave then this board is for anime fans. |
GrimAtramentSep 26, 2020 1:06 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| And just to add to the argument, the question of it being morally wrong is utterly bullshit Plants are alive too, they just don't scream when you pick a leaf or cut them So was the bacteria you killed yesterday by washing your hand |
| خ |
| lol animals aren't people if you eat animals you have no moral justification to care also owning pets is slavery now im gonna go eat some chicken |
| @Ryuk9428 You are the only person talking sense in this whole thread. I wouldn't bother debating people on MAL on animal rights, they're extremely stupid when it comes to this topic, so just save your mental health and let them circlejerk over their steaks I have to ask though, why aren't you vegan? You mentioned you're vegetarian for ethics but eggs and dairy is extremely cruel. Nothing against you, I used to be veggie too but it made no sense for be to be vegetarian for ethics |
AmphyyOct 6, 2020 9:54 AM
Amffy said: @Ryuk9428 You are the only person talking sense in this whole thread. I wouldn't bother debating people on MAL on animal rights, they're extremely stupid when it comes to this topic, so just save your mental health and let them circlejerk over their steaks I have to ask though, why aren't you vegan? You mentioned you're vegetarian for ethics but eggs and dairy is extremely cruel. Nothing against you, I used to be veggie too but it made no sense for be to be vegetarian for ethics Unfortunately I just can't do it. My diet is already so limited, but I do take steps to reduce it. The only time I ever eat eggs is if it gets served to me in a restaurant. For milk I generally buy almond milk instead. Its mainly cheese. Its too integral to everything I eat. I guess I'm a tiny bit hypocritical in that regard, but I do try everything I can and I do think going vegetarian is the most important step cause meat is definitely a lot worse. |
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