Zeroflamez said: Xstasy said: Entitled people exist in every community. I think that entire outrage over kissanime was kinda pointless considering that there are other superior pirating sites out there. I agree with you about importance of supporting anime industry. Buying Blu-Rays, Merch, Manga is the good alternative way to support the industry without giving money to often subpar streaming services. Xstasy said: Entitled people exist in every community. I think that entire outrage over kissanime was kinda pointless considering that there are other superior pirating sites out there. I agree with you about importance of supporting anime industry. Buying Blu-Rays, Merch, Manga is the good alternative way to support the industry without giving money to often subpar streaming services. They do exist but other communities like the gaming community actually have more leverage to be entitled and demanding cause they're actually putting a lot of money into DLC's the game itself and other ad-ons. What leg does the Anime community have to stand on exactly to be demanding? Most people pirate and don't put a cent back into the industry, yet still complain about things even though they have access to ALL seasonal Anime every year that's also simulcast. The Anime industry is already being pretty generous like what else more do they want? Douluo said: Part systemic generational problem, part spoilage by large scale availability of free content and information. I'm as guilty as the next guy for not contributing what I should, so my hypocrisy only goes so far. But what really takes the cake are entitled soy boys who bitch out subbers for falling behind on their free shit. Tempted to reach through my monitor and strangle those ****ers. Yeah I've seen a ton of people on here whine and cry about the subs for simulcasts not being "up to par" on Crunchy Roll. Like jeez you're already getting it on the day of but you're also expecting to have flawless subs. Holy moly deg said: thats my indirect way of spreading awareness and make paying customers or potential paying customers help the anime industry grow more and piracy is one of those promotional ways too besides the Anime Industry's record breaking wealth does not trickle down to the animators It could trickle down if enough money is put into it. MadHobbit2 said: It's almost like marketing an entire entertainment medium towards shut-in otakus with no money and no futures wasn't the best decision on Japan's part. They want people to pay for anime? Make anime that's worth paying for. There's plenty of Anime worth paying for. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Consume Consume and don't give back. Also not every Otaku is a shut in with no money. If that was the case the entire industry would have collapsed ages ago. Damn, you really bunkering down on that trickle-down economy stuff. That’s not how corporations work |
| The problem with streaming sites is that they don´t necessarily have the series that you want to watch (Example: Monster isn´t available through any streaming platform ). Also they don´t really pay the anime studios a lot of money for their anime. Since there are only a few streaming sites for anime, they basically have a monopoly. The next problem is that those streaming sites like to censor and change things (Evangelion on Netflix). The best way to actually support the Anime Industry is through Merchandise and buying DVDs and Blu-Rays which helps way more than actual streaming sites do. If the streaming sites would step up their game in these areas, it would render sites like kissanime useless, atleast for me. |
Zeroflamez said: AlexielMudou said: I agree. I buy manga when I can and even have a to-buy list. It's just that I got sucked into Funko Pops and it's going to take longer. *lol* I have to admit, working on this hasn't allowed me much money for anime series, but I know there's stuff I want like Rose of Versailles. It's just the older stuff can be a pain in the ass to get price wise. In the meantime I'm using "legit" streaming and illegal streaming to work on my viewing bucket list. It's a good way to pick out what series you like enough to buy without having to worry about spending thousands on buying every single thing. Honestly, I'm waiting for Viz to release all of Sailor Moon in one set. Not sure why they wouldn't take advantage of such a cash grab. Yeah I don't buy Anime ALL the time anymore. I basically only used to buy Anime in the past but I got other interests I also spend my money so I just go back and forth between what I want to invest in at that point in time. An entire series boxset of Sailor Moon would be pretty neat but probably very expensive and a limited run product only. Maybe they'd consider it after they finish releasing the rest of Sailor moon. That makes total sense. I do regret being broke as a kid though and not getting all those tapes that are still expensive even now though. *lol* From what I read , the rest of Season 5 came out last year. I just don't feel great about buying it as it's currently released, at like, $40 a part when every Season is split into 2 parts. |
AlexielMudouAug 19, 2020 2:58 AM
| When anime started gaining popularity lol There are less people who are passionate about anime now. There are more casuals who watch anime as a side hobby or something. It's kind of like how people nowadays play video games or watch Netflix casually. Of course those who just watch and like anime on the side or haven't dedicated a tiny part of their life to anime, aren't gonna completely understand the community, industry, and everything else. Their focus in life is elsewhere. Since everyone seems to be going on about piracy, if every legal anime streaming was like Viki, we wouldn't be arguing here. Even with Viki's smallish selection, it still offers more benefits than the likes of kissasian or any other asian drama pirate site I've used. Maybe it's just my mindset, who knows. I do know, however, that I H A T E Crunchyroll's site. I do love their selection though. Funi's O K but I'd still rather be watching anime on something like aniwatch. Can't afford subscriptions and the like for the others haha. Now that I'm typing all of this out, I think the problem lies with the sites and services themselves. Aniwatch, in my opinion, is better than the other legal anime sites I know. However, Viki(a legal drama site) is better than the drama pirate sites I know. If Viki had a bigger selection, than I would 100% pay for it, no doubt. When I get the money, it will go towards that site. However, with crunchyroll and funi, I don't know. It feels like the only motive to really pay for it is the fact that I can watch anime legally. I think this is the problem. Along with the fact that these sites don't have every anime/show a fan may desire. If a pirates site has almost 0 annoying ads, a big selection, and other charming features, who wouldn't be tempted to use it? People are greedy and want the easiest option. Not everyone puts streaming anime legally on their moral compass. Anyways, what I said may have been a bit dumb, and you can point it out if you like. I'll consider your opinions. However, I'm not gonna argue all day over such a controversial topic. |
EhtaAug 19, 2020 6:44 AM
| woah there |
Nikuya_420 said: The problem with streaming sites is that they don´t necessarily have the series that you want to watch (Example: Monster isn´t available through any streaming platform ). Also they don´t really pay the anime studios a lot of money for their anime. Since there are only a few streaming sites for anime, they basically have a monopoly. The next problem is that those streaming sites like to censor and change things (Evangelion on Netflix). The best way to actually support the Anime Industry is through Merchandise and buying DVDs and Blu-Rays which helps way more than actual streaming sites do. If the streaming sites would step up their game in these areas, it would render sites like kissanime useless, atleast for me. The reason there is censorship in anime is because a majority is broadcast on public channels and have to adhere to the public broadcasting laws. Notice how anime from AT-X is generally uncensored? That's because it's a paid channel and can show partial nudity and more gratuitous scenes, much like Netflix. Streaming sites generally end up getting public TV footage which is censored via the TV station or the animation studio. So there is nothing they can really do. Physical sales are also a huge part of it. You'll make more money selling uncensored BD's than you would re-broadcasting or selling it to a streaming service. I have been told that Hulu will show uncensored/Blu-ray versions of anime at times. I am unable to verify this myself though. |
Glordit said: Nikuya_420 said: The problem with streaming sites is that they don´t necessarily have the series that you want to watch (Example: Monster isn´t available through any streaming platform ). Also they don´t really pay the anime studios a lot of money for their anime. Since there are only a few streaming sites for anime, they basically have a monopoly. The next problem is that those streaming sites like to censor and change things (Evangelion on Netflix). The best way to actually support the Anime Industry is through Merchandise and buying DVDs and Blu-Rays which helps way more than actual streaming sites do. If the streaming sites would step up their game in these areas, it would render sites like kissanime useless, atleast for me. The reason there is censorship in anime is because a majority is broadcast on public channels and have to adhere to the public broadcasting laws. Notice how anime from AT-X is generally uncensored? That's because it's a paid channel and can show partial nudity and more gratuitous scenes, much like Netflix. Streaming sites generally end up getting public TV footage which is censored via the TV station or the animation studio. So there is nothing they can really do. Physical sales are also a huge part of it. You'll make more money selling uncensored BD's than you would re-broadcasting or selling it to a streaming service. I have been told that Hulu will show uncensored/Blu-ray versions of anime at times. I am unable to verify this myself though. Hulu does actually do that from time to time. I still think that it´s a major issue for streaming sites, that they have to censor. Because people like me, who mostly watch Seinen anime, can´t even watch their anime how it was originally. I know it´s mainly the fault of the broadcasting laws. Here in Germany it´s a major issue for people like me. When you want to watch something like Tokyo Ghoul or Elfen Lied on TV here, then you will often not see 90% of the anime, because it´s all censored. Still, why would i want to pay for anime, that censores out so much, that it doesn´t even feel like the original at all anymore. That´s one of the major advantages of kissanime and the such in my opinion. I don´t know much about uncensored BDs and DVDs, but atleast here in Germany we don´t really get them. They´re less censored here, but still way too much in my opinion. And there is still the issue with anime that are nowhere available ( Monster for example ). I get your view point though. |
Zeroflamez said: existentialist said: Holy shit you couldn't be more clueless about economics if you tried. Do you even know the anime market size? As a rough estimate, I've seen 100+ million people watch anime in any given period. Do you know how big of a number that is? Wow, projects need MILLIONS of dollars. Holy, how will they even get millions of dollars, its not like if 1% of the market donates 10 dollars, they would have 10,000,000 or anything. You are either sorely underestimating how many people watch anime, or really don't understand how easy is it to accumulate wealth when your product is high in demand. And I know for a fact, people would be way more liberal in spending on studios and creators once we knew they were directly getting the money. Look at this comment section, its littered with people who hate the corporate anime world just like me but wish they had better ways to support. But please enlighten me on how crowdfunding works and why its super dumbdumb in this situation, you seem to be a beacon of knowledge. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I'm going to try once more and then after that I'm just going to tell you to re-read my previous comment. People. Have. Different... (and I can't stress this enough).. tastes. So when I said, about 3 times so far, that a 'bad product" to you, is not the same to just maybe one of the other hundred million anime watchers, I meant that a studio or company won't go out of business just because you don't like what they are selling. And if they really are so undesirable that no one wants to watch what they are creating, then good. The market is working properly, no one should support something if it doesn't work or no one wants it. Sorry, that's how a market economy is supposed to work. If you want to pay for someone to make shit no one wants, you can go ahead. But for the rest of us who would rather not. All this would practically mean, is faster turnover or already dying studios. Also, investors and creditors would still exist in a grassroots economy. Big investors can still fund projects and invest in creators, its just the incentive structure would be vastly different, and creators or studios would have more autonomy in production and dividends. Well if madhouse was working under a grassroots economy, they may have not spent so long on one project, and if it did sink them, then that's the effect from their mismanagement. But its not like the animators died, they would move on to other companies that want their talent. You seem to be insinuating that the whole anime economy would sink if the big studios went under, but that's just clearly not what would happen. I've already told you it's because it's not reliable income and the Industry would collapse relying on the fans to fund entire series completely. The Anime OVA's and short films that have already been kick started don't even break 10k contributers. Even the Little Witch Academia Movie couldn't break 10 thousand and it was backed entirely by fans of the franchise. Studios would not make enough money to fund anything even if people were just supporting the stuff they wanted made. Cause there weren't even enough LWA fans donating to break 1 million dollars. If all these fans you seem to be talking about are so willing to throw their money at studios that go directly to them, they should have broke 1 million USD EASILY for past kick starters. But they didn't. Plus even after kick starting the project we'll STILL have to pay to watch the Anime that we funded. We wouldn't just be able to donate like 5 dollars and have access to it. So we'd also end up having to pay for a studios streaming service on top of having to kick start projects. So we'd have to end up paying for every studios streaming service and every studios crowd fund. So we'd ultimately be paying like twice or 3 times as much as it costs to just buy the blu ray or pay for a subscription for a ton of shows from different studios. This is exactly why your idea is pretty stupid. No, you've just strait up asserted it was and then ignored all the evidence against. That might be because they fucking suck? Did you think every project under the sun will get through in this new system? The reason it works so bad is A: people don't hear about it and B: it's not the main system that gets anime up and running. If the economic model changed so that it was, support would change drastically because fans would know if they want things to happen they need to support the grassroots funding. It's also funny you chose LWA as your example of this failing, as it has had a previous crowdsourcing campaign which was overwhelmingly successful and they gotten more than they asked for https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1311401276/little-witch-academia-2?ref=nav_search . And what LWA movie are you talking about? Are you talking about the VR game that they are currently crowdsourcing? Cause if so its still doing really well according to the kickstarter, apparently. What do you mean we wouldn't be able to donate 5 dollars and have access to it? What law states that just must be the case? You're just pulling shit out of your ass how to try and defend your specious perspective. There would optimally be a way to buy individual products, subscribe so you get everything the company/creator produces, be able to donate whenever you feel like it, and give money towards the creation of new projects. So no, literally nothing you've said is even remotely true. Would I, who pirate all my anime for free right now, be paying more? Yeah, but I would actually want to pay because I know who the money is going towards. At the end of the day, if you are thinking the way things work now is better, you're delusional. I and millions of others will continue to pirate, and do so happily because I'm paying shit to people who are just there to steal a large cut from the animators and creators (who get paid fucking dogshit) https://kotaku.com/make-anime-in-japan-get-a-shitty-salary-1820035912#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20Japan%20Animation,million%20yen%20(US%249%2C648). "According to a Japan Animation Creators Association survey of 759 animators, the average yearly income is 1.1 million yen (US$9,648)." So yeah keep shilling for daddy CR, its really working. |
existentialist said: Zeroflamez said: I've already told you it's because it's not reliable income and the Industry would collapse relying on the fans to fund entire series completely. The Anime OVA's and short films that have already been kick started don't even break 10k contributers. Even the Little Witch Academia Movie couldn't break 10 thousand and it was backed entirely by fans of the franchise. Studios would not make enough money to fund anything even if people were just supporting the stuff they wanted made. Cause there weren't even enough LWA fans donating to break 1 million dollars. If all these fans you seem to be talking about are so willing to throw their money at studios that go directly to them, they should have broke 1 million USD EASILY for past kick starters. But they didn't. Plus even after kick starting the project we'll STILL have to pay to watch the Anime that we funded. We wouldn't just be able to donate like 5 dollars and have access to it. So we'd also end up having to pay for a studios streaming service on top of having to kick start projects. So we'd have to end up paying for every studios streaming service and every studios crowd fund. So we'd ultimately be paying like twice or 3 times as much as it costs to just buy the blu ray or pay for a subscription for a ton of shows from different studios. This is exactly why your idea is pretty stupid. No, you've just strait up asserted it was and then ignored all the evidence against. That might be because they fucking suck? Did you think every project under the sun will get through in this new system? The reason it works so bad is A: people don't hear about it and B: it's not the main system that gets anime up and running. If the economic model changed so that it was, support would change drastically because fans would know if they want things to happen they need to support the grassroots funding. It's also funny you chose LWA as your example of this failing, as it has had a previous crowdsourcing campaign which was overwhelmingly successful and they gotten more than they asked for https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1311401276/little-witch-academia-2?ref=nav_search . And what LWA movie are you talking about? Are you talking about the VR game that they are currently crowdsourcing? Cause if so its still doing really well according to the kickstarter, apparently. What do you mean we wouldn't be able to donate 5 dollars and have access to it? What law states that just must be the case? You're just pulling shit out of your ass how to try and defend your specious perspective. There would optimally be a way to buy individual products, subscribe so you get everything the company/creator produces, be able to donate whenever you feel like it, and give money towards the creation of new projects. So no, literally nothing you've said is even remotely true. Would I, who pirate all my anime for free right now, be paying more? Yeah, but I would actually want to pay because I know who the money is going towards. At the end of the day, if you are thinking the way things work now is better, you're delusional. I and millions of others will continue to pirate, and do so happily because I'm paying shit to people who are just there to steal a large cut from the animators and creators (who get paid fucking dogshit) https://kotaku.com/make-anime-in-japan-get-a-shitty-salary-1820035912#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20Japan%20Animation,million%20yen%20(US%249%2C648). "According to a Japan Animation Creators Association survey of 759 animators, the average yearly income is 1.1 million yen (US$9,648)." So yeah keep shilling for daddy CR, its really working. I never even said that Little Witch Academia 2 failed. Do you know how to read? I said that it didn't even break 1 million dollars. The money it made for just one 50 minute film is okay but that amount is not enough to fully fund multiple 12-26 episode Anime a year. PLUS they need money to pay their employees, pay their expenses, pay people to translate and provide subtitles for multiple languages, pay for distribution, pay for servers to host their shows, pay for advertisement and pay for marketing. The middleman and big wig companies take care of all of the above that I mentioned. They cut out that extra cost. If you cut out the middlemen and the big corporations the consumer will have to foot the bill for all of this. So we'll end up paying even more for Anime than we do now. And the current community won't even open their pockets to pay for a blu ray cause it's "too expensive" let a lone pay for a $7 subscription fee to access content legally cause it "doesn't go to the creators in Japan" even though you paying for sub fee's and blu ray's allow the middlemen to purchase more licenses which puts money back into the Japanese industry. Which gives the big wigs more money to be able to produce more Anime and in turn keep giving Animators jobs. At the end of the day, if you are thinking the way things work now is better, you're delusional. I and millions of others will continue to pirate, and do so happily because I'm paying shit to people who are just there to steal a large cut from the animators and creators (who get paid fucking dogshit) Lol says the guy that delusionally thinks that a fan run Anime industry is actually a sustainable and reliable way to run a business. What you're suggesting is fine for projects but it is not possible to run an ENTIRE industry with. Yes you and the 1 million others would likely STILL be pirating even if the industry did become grass root funded. You already don't want to pay any money for merchandise or streaming services which helps the industry continue to produce shows which gives animators jobs. So why the fuck would you be willing to shell out the 100's of dollars necessary to fund an entire industry? You and others are just justifying pirating. If you're gonna pirate at least just say you do it cause you don't wanna pay. Don't hide behind this "Animators don't get paid shit so I won't be paying shit" nonsense. Also in that article that pay is for ENTRY LEVEL ANIMATORS, higher level animators obviously make more. The wage would also be dependent on the company. P.A works is not a big company so of course their starting wages won't be as high as the bigger studios like Toei, Sunrise, Studio Ghibli. Ufotable and others. |
ZeroflamezAug 19, 2020 12:25 PM
existentialist said: At the end of the day, if you are thinking the way things work now is better, you're delusional. I and millions of others will continue to pirate, and do so happily because I'm paying shit to people who are just there to steal a large cut from the animators and creators (who get paid fucking dogshit) https://kotaku.com/make-anime-in-japan-get-a-shitty-salary-1820035912#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20Japan%20Animation,million%20yen%20(US%249%2C648). "According to a Japan Animation Creators Association survey of 759 animators, the average yearly income is 1.1 million yen (US$9,648)." So yeah keep shilling for daddy CR, its really working. This is an argument that I don't agree with. (I agree with plenty of reasons to pirate but not this) It makes little sense. Unless you spend money on actual DVD's then just using free services you are contributing NOTHING to the Industry and your argument about supporting the creators falls by the wayside. If you do buy merchandise then I apologise and accept your reason. |
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UberBat said: existentialist said: At the end of the day, if you are thinking the way things work now is better, you're delusional. I and millions of others will continue to pirate, and do so happily because I'm paying shit to people who are just there to steal a large cut from the animators and creators (who get paid fucking dogshit) https://kotaku.com/make-anime-in-japan-get-a-shitty-salary-1820035912#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20Japan%20Animation,million%20yen%20(US%249%2C648). "According to a Japan Animation Creators Association survey of 759 animators, the average yearly income is 1.1 million yen (US$9,648)." So yeah keep shilling for daddy CR, its really working. This is an argument that I don't agree with. (I agree with plenty of reasons to pirate but not this) It makes little sense. Unless you spend money on actual DVD's then just using free services you are contributing NOTHING to the Industry and your argument about supporting the creators falls by the wayside. If you do buy merchandise then I apologise and accept your reason. Those kinds of arguments are exactly what makes me question the integrity of their stance on not supporting the industry cause their money doesn't go straight to the studio. And how they'd be more than willing to throw money at the studio if they could pay them directly. Yet openly continue to boast about continuing to pirate happily until the day that happens. After making this thread I'm seriously starting to have more respect for the pirates that say "Why would I buy it if I can get it for free?". At least they're honest and not trying to justify their pirating by hiding behind a veil of righteousness. |
| I love it when the OPs in threads have to add a note to their way of thought for the people who entirely disagree. It just shows how even more entitled some people are. |
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Zeroflamez said: existentialist said: No, you've just strait up asserted it was and then ignored all the evidence against. That might be because they fucking suck? Did you think every project under the sun will get through in this new system? The reason it works so bad is A: people don't hear about it and B: it's not the main system that gets anime up and running. If the economic model changed so that it was, support would change drastically because fans would know if they want things to happen they need to support the grassroots funding. It's also funny you chose LWA as your example of this failing, as it has had a previous crowdsourcing campaign which was overwhelmingly successful and they gotten more than they asked for https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1311401276/little-witch-academia-2?ref=nav_search . And what LWA movie are you talking about? Are you talking about the VR game that they are currently crowdsourcing? Cause if so its still doing really well according to the kickstarter, apparently. What do you mean we wouldn't be able to donate 5 dollars and have access to it? What law states that just must be the case? You're just pulling shit out of your ass how to try and defend your specious perspective. There would optimally be a way to buy individual products, subscribe so you get everything the company/creator produces, be able to donate whenever you feel like it, and give money towards the creation of new projects. So no, literally nothing you've said is even remotely true. Would I, who pirate all my anime for free right now, be paying more? Yeah, but I would actually want to pay because I know who the money is going towards. At the end of the day, if you are thinking the way things work now is better, you're delusional. I and millions of others will continue to pirate, and do so happily because I'm paying shit to people who are just there to steal a large cut from the animators and creators (who get paid fucking dogshit) https://kotaku.com/make-anime-in-japan-get-a-shitty-salary-1820035912#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20Japan%20Animation,million%20yen%20(US%249%2C648). "According to a Japan Animation Creators Association survey of 759 animators, the average yearly income is 1.1 million yen (US$9,648)." So yeah keep shilling for daddy CR, its really working. I never even said that Little Witch Academia 2 failed. Do you know how to read? I said that it didn't even break 1 million dollars. The money it made for just one 50 minute film is okay but that amount is not enough to fully fund multiple 12-26 episode Anime a year. PLUS they need money to pay their employees, pay their expenses, pay people to translate and provide subtitles for multiple languages, pay for distribution, pay for servers to host their shows, pay for advertisement and pay for marketing. The middleman and big wig companies take care of all of the above that I mentioned. They cut out that extra cost. If you cut out the middlemen and the big corporations the consumer will have to foot the bill for all of this. So we'll end up paying even more for Anime than we do now. And the current community won't even open their pockets to pay for a blu ray cause it's "too expensive" let a lone pay for a $7 subscription fee to access content legally cause it "doesn't go to the creators in Japan" even though you paying for sub fee's and blu ray's allow the middlemen to purchase more licenses which puts money back into the Japanese industry. Which gives the big wigs more money to be able to produce more Anime and in turn keep giving Animators jobs. At the end of the day, if you are thinking the way things work now is better, you're delusional. I and millions of others will continue to pirate, and do so happily because I'm paying shit to people who are just there to steal a large cut from the animators and creators (who get paid fucking dogshit) Lol says the guy that delusionally thinks that a fan run Anime industry is actually a sustainable and reliable way to run a business. What you're suggesting is fine for projects but it is not possible to run an ENTIRE industry with. Yes you and the 1 million others would likely STILL be pirating even if the industry did become grass root funded. You already don't want to pay any money for merchandise or streaming services which helps the industry continue to produce shows which gives animators jobs. So why the fuck would you be willing to shell out the 100's of dollars necessary to fund an entire industry? You and others are just justifying pirating. If you're gonna pirate at least just say you do it cause you don't wanna pay. Don't hide behind this "Animators don't get paid shit so I won't be paying shit" nonsense. Also in that article that pay is for ENTRY LEVEL ANIMATORS, higher level animators obviously make more. The wage would also be dependent on the company. P.A works is not a big company so of course their starting wages won't be as high as the bigger studios like Toei, Sunrise, Studio Ghibli. Ufotable and others. Ahh you got caught bullshiting and now you have to double back. "Even the Little Witch Academia Movie couldn't break 10 thousand and it was backed entirely by fans of the franchise. Studios would not make enough money to fund anything even if people were just supporting the stuff they wanted made. Cause there weren't even enough LWA fans donating to break 1 million dollars. If all these fans you seem to be talking about are so willing to throw their money at studios that go directly to them, they should have broke 1 million USD EASILY for past kick starters." Do you know how much the project was asking for originally? $150,000. Do you know how much they got? $625,518. So you tried to frame it as "how will anime survive they didn't even make the billionz" when the actually got over 4 times what they asked for. Are you trying to say crowdfunding will fail, and then use an example in which they raised quadruple what they needed? You're an actual joke. What would have happened if they asked for a million? You have no idea how much they could have gotten if people realized that the movie wouldn't happen unless they reached the specified goal. And, again, because you either have a egregiously short attention span or the memory of a goldfish, creditors and investors will still exist in a grassroots economy. This has and will never change. Studios and creators and always take loans (as they already do) and find investors (as they already do) to support projects they want to create but can raise enough capital doing through crowdfunding. "PLUS they need money to pay their employees, pay their expenses, pay people to translate and provide subtitles for multiple languages, pay for distribution, pay for servers to host their shows, pay for advertisement and pay for marketing. The middleman and big wig companies take care of all of the above that I mentioned. They cut out that extra cost. If you cut out the middlemen and the big corporations the consumer will have to foot the bill for all of this. So we'll end up paying even more for Anime than we do now." I don't know if I can keep correcting your 5 head economic logic, it's getting really bad. Who pays for the middle man and big wig companies? Hmm? Think real hard for a second please. THE CONSUMERS DO. Do you think these middle men work out of the goodness of their heart? No, there costs are added onto the costs of everything else you mentioned, which inflates the costs of the anime. If they are taken away from the picture, it would be the creators having to be in closer contact with all these other people, which they would also be under their own company of translators, people who own servers, and marketing advertisers. We just wouldn't be paying the extra money for some dude getting 100,000 a year to pick up the phone and call the companies to get the work, or for CR and FunI to monopolize the distribution and pay studios whatever scant amounts while keeping the lionshare for hosting it. 90% of the people saying "I'm not paying" are doing so because they aren't going to pay CR to walk all over the studios, not because its too expensive. Yeah 90% of that money goes into the big wigs pockets, and how much do the animators make, incase you've forgotten, I'll post again. "According to a Japan Animation Creators Association survey of 759 animators, the average yearly income is 1.1 million yen (US$9,648)." Wow I bet the animators are so happy you are buying all their content to keep their single bowl of rice on the table. So you are okay will literal slave labour if it makes big daddy CR happy, I guess. Lmao, okay, don't take my word then, I don't need to convince you, you are clearly to pig-headed to be convinced to begin with. I'll say again though, the only thing stopping me from buying anime content is how much of the money is going to the studios/creators. If there was a direct way for me to pay ShūzŠOshimi you better believe he'd be getting 20 dollar a month from me, at least. The amount of joy and worth I've gotten out of his content makes me feel compelled to pay him, and this is the fundamental thing you aren't getting about the situation. People have a propensity to compensate those who they feel deserve something. I get mad thinking about the fact I can't pay Oshimi or any other author or animator without some fuck sticking his hand out as well and taking 80% of it because he made a few phone calls and was lucky enough to have to powerful connections. I'm out, your stupidity knows no bounds and I'm having a brain hemorrhage reading what you've written. |
UberBat said: existentialist said: At the end of the day, if you are thinking the way things work now is better, you're delusional. I and millions of others will continue to pirate, and do so happily because I'm paying shit to people who are just there to steal a large cut from the animators and creators (who get paid fucking dogshit) https://kotaku.com/make-anime-in-japan-get-a-shitty-salary-1820035912#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20Japan%20Animation,million%20yen%20(US%249%2C648). "According to a Japan Animation Creators Association survey of 759 animators, the average yearly income is 1.1 million yen (US$9,648)." So yeah keep shilling for daddy CR, its really working. This is an argument that I don't agree with. (I agree with plenty of reasons to pirate but not this) It makes little sense. Unless you spend money on actual DVD's then just using free services you are contributing NOTHING to the Industry and your argument about supporting the creators falls by the wayside. If you do buy merchandise then I apologise and accept your reason. No, my central position is that I would rather pay nothing, than give the creators 5 cents of every dollar, and then 50+% goes to people who are literally only there because they have connections with someone else. I don't want to contribute to the industry, I want to contribute to the creators of the works without having vultures taking most of that money away from them and me. This is why I think the way its run right now is an archaic business practice that hasn't cued into the internet and how easily accessible the market is online. I don't want animators to only be paid 10 grand a year, and I don't want to support an industry that lets this happen. |
Bunille said: I love it when the OPs in threads have to add a note to their way of thought for the people who entirely disagree. It just shows how even more entitled some people are. So we're not allowed to disagree? Cool. |
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existentialist said: UberBat said: This is an argument that I don't agree with. (I agree with plenty of reasons to pirate but not this) It makes little sense. Unless you spend money on actual DVD's then just using free services you are contributing NOTHING to the Industry and your argument about supporting the creators falls by the wayside. If you do buy merchandise then I apologise and accept your reason. No, my central position is that I would rather pay nothing, than give the creators 5 cents of every dollar, and then 50+% goes to people who are literally only there because they have connections with someone else. I don't want to contribute to the industry, I want to contribute to the creators of the works without having vultures taking most of that money away from them and me. This is why I think the way its run right now is an archaic business practice that hasn't cued into the internet and how easily accessible the market is online. I don't want animators to only be paid 10 grand a year, and I don't want to support an industry that lets this happen. What sort of alternative would you suggest or fight for instead? If your morality is that firm then perhaps you can follow through with it? Just not agreeing with big companies making a profit(which is how every company usually operates) to justify not even a hand out to the creators seems a little on the petty side to me. It's how most business operate. Without those big names buying up the licences then outside of those free (and no monetary contributing) sites we wouldn't get any anime at all. It's a reason I'll give you that. But unless backed up by that moral outrage with action it's not a very good reason. |
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TsukuyomiREKT said: I never said that but okay.Bunille said: I love it when the OPs in threads have to add a note to their way of thought for the people who entirely disagree. It just shows how even more entitled some people are. So we're not allowed to disagree? Cool. You're allowed to disagree as long as you're not acting entitled and think that you deserve free anime and companies don't deserve any money, but somehow the illegal ones do (because Crunchyroll does pay the anime industry, it'd be illegal otherwise) and you'd rather support that instead? Okay. Read the first post. |
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Bunille said: I never said that but okay. You're allowed to disagree as long as you're not acting entitled and think that you deserve free anime and companies don't deserve any money, but somehow the illegal ones do (because Crunchyroll does pay the anime industry, it'd be illegal otherwise) and you'd rather support that instead? Okay. Read the first post. Cruchyroll doesn't deserve money because they're a shit company that does nothing for the industry. Buying literally any type of BD, manga, or merch does more. And at no point did I say that illegal sites deserve money. A lot of them are just as shit if not more so than CR. |
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TsukuyomiREKT said: Okay, your opinion. Others can watch Crunchyroll legally as it doesn't involve you... right? No need to tell people to not use a legal website just because it's "shit".Bunille said: I never said that but okay. You're allowed to disagree as long as you're not acting entitled and think that you deserve free anime and companies don't deserve any money, but somehow the illegal ones do (because Crunchyroll does pay the anime industry, it'd be illegal otherwise) and you'd rather support that instead? Okay. Read the first post. Cruchyroll doesn't deserve money because they're a shit company that does nothing for the industry. Buying literally any type of BD, manga, or merch does more. And at no point did I say that illegal sites deserve money. A lot of them are just as shit if not more so than CR. If you don't like the illegal sites then why use them and not Crunchy? You're making no sense. I'd go for the site that gives them some profit rather than a site that only profits from seeding and ads. If they don't have it available in your country, go ahead. If people are too poor, that's like expecting free food. Life doesn't work like that. Buying literally any type of BD, manga, or merch does more. Then buy it, but that won't make up for all of it. You don't need to donate, but that'd be better and then the complaints about the industries not getting enough money has no blame on your behalf anymore. |
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Zeroflamez said: I seriously don't understand the people in the Anime community that demands things yet can even reach into their pocket and spend a few dollars here and there to support the industry. You can still support without paying for streaming services by buying officially licensed products sold in your country or that you can import from Japan. buying figures and watching anime go hand in hand for me. I nonstop spend all my money on figures. but what happens when my favorite characters or shows don't have anything anymore, because all japan does now are western ip garbage and gatcha stuff? I spend the same amount of money as I did before because of the price hike but I get way less figures these days, there just aren't any. I'm never fucking ever paying for streaming however. I hate streaming as a whole. I hate the incompetent sites, I hate the idea of streams and buffering. I want to download, it's simple as that. I decide it if I keep it or not, and I want to watch it even if I don't have internet connection. I don't want to pay for subpar translations where mistakes like confusing red and white happen as seen in ubw, or switching the words magical and scientific then leaving it like that, aka current railgun season. I will not pay for censored "tv rips", or if the anime censors the source material until it counts as a rewrite aka shield hero. I will NOT pay for localisation, be it changing terms for no reason, or adding disgusting propaganda. and I will NEVER pay for dubs, especially if the money goes to entitled activist voice actresses who can't or won't even attempt to mimic the character they supposed to act like. |
| 馬é¹æććå«ēćå ØéØć¬ć©ćÆćæć§ |
Bunille said: TsukuyomiREKT said: Okay, your opinion. Others can watch Crunchyroll legally as it doesn't involve you... right? No need to tell people to not use a legal website just because it's "shit".Cruchyroll doesn't deserve money because they're a shit company that does nothing for the industry. Buying literally any type of BD, manga, or merch does more. And at no point did I say that illegal sites deserve money. A lot of them are just as shit if not more so than CR. If you don't like the illegal sites then why use them and not Crunchy? You're making no sense. I'd go for the site that gives them some profit rather than a site that only profits from seeding and ads. If they don't have it available in your country, go ahead. If people are too poor, that's like expecting free food. Life doesn't work like that. Buying literally any type of BD, manga, or merch does more. Then buy it, but that won't make up for all of it. You don't need to donate, but that'd be better and then the complaints about the industries not getting enough money has no blame on your behalf anymore.I use illegal sites that are GOOD, as in no annoying ads, a decent enough layout and UI, and good video players/quality. That's why I said "A LOT" and not "ALL". Also, I already do buy physical stuff, and if a studio I really liked set up some kind of Patreon or other way to directly pay them, I'd do that as well. |
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TsukuyomiREKT said: Then there's nothing wrong with this.Bunille said: Okay, your opinion. Others can watch Crunchyroll legally as it doesn't involve you... right? No need to tell people to not use a legal website just because it's "shit". If you don't like the illegal sites then why use them and not Crunchy? You're making no sense. I'd go for the site that gives them some profit rather than a site that only profits from seeding and ads. If they don't have it available in your country, go ahead. If people are too poor, that's like expecting free food. Life doesn't work like that. Then buy it, but that won't make up for all of it. You don't need to donate, but that'd be better and then the complaints about the industries not getting enough money has no blame on your behalf anymore. I use illegal sites that are GOOD, as in no annoying ads, a decent enough layout and UI, and good video players/quality. That's why I said "A LOT" and not "ALL". Also, I already do buy physical stuff, and if a studio I really liked set up some kind of Patreon or other way to directly pay them, I'd do that as well. |
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UberBat said: existentialist said: No, my central position is that I would rather pay nothing, than give the creators 5 cents of every dollar, and then 50+% goes to people who are literally only there because they have connections with someone else. I don't want to contribute to the industry, I want to contribute to the creators of the works without having vultures taking most of that money away from them and me. This is why I think the way its run right now is an archaic business practice that hasn't cued into the internet and how easily accessible the market is online. I don't want animators to only be paid 10 grand a year, and I don't want to support an industry that lets this happen. What sort of alternative would you suggest or fight for instead? If your morality is that firm then perhaps you can follow through with it? Just not agreeing with big companies making a profit(which is how every company usually operates) to justify not even a hand out to the creators seems a little on the petty side to me. It's how most business operate. Without those big names buying up the licences then outside of those free (and no monetary contributing) sites we wouldn't get any anime at all. It's a reason I'll give you that. But unless backed up by that moral outrage with action it's not a very good reason. If you read my previous comments you'd get a good explication, but basically I think a more direct, internet focused model would work better than what is currently in place. An easy example, is having manga authors and specific studios having their own patreons, and direct donation accounts like paypal. Also crowdfunding for future projects is a great way to accrue capital without having to rely too heavily on investors or creditors. Then all they would have to do is have their own streaming platforms with a subscription base, or even an ability to buy specific seasons of anime on a website. My thing is, take away as many of the middle men as possible, and get as much money to the creators as possible without having them be lost to insignificance, so marketing may have to be a necessary evil to ensure that their works are spread. And my position is a little more nuanced, rather than just hating on companies that make big profit, its the inequality that the real creators are dealing with that I think is fundamentally immoral. If the balance of the companies that do business now tips more in favour of the creators of shows, I'd be much less stingy. I just can't justify spending money on something where the people are treated like such shit, and yet they are the ones producing what we are consuming. And this isn't some unique conviction I have towards the anime industry, I buy most of my clothing from nicer second hand sellers, shop locally for most of my food, and try to spend my money as ethically as possible because I do believe it matters. I could see how it would come off as petty, but its more like "by paying these companies, I'm tacitly supporting their practices of exploitation, and I ought to not do that, even if it means in the short run I'm hurting the creators." Cause I don't have any way to change things on my own. My biggest regret is that the anime world is concentrated in a non-English speaking country, because I would love to email creators and suggest this kind of stuff (I'm not under the illusion anyone would listen to me, but it's better than nothing). And in the long run no, my career path isn't heading in this direction so I wouldn't be able to be the catylist for change. |
| I currently subscribe to four different streaming services and three of those offer Anime but there are still shows, which are not available because of licensing. It is what it is. I understand people who are frustrated but I stick with the legal options. At least that way I can support an industry that I care for. |
existentialist said: Zeroflamez said: I never even said that Little Witch Academia 2 failed. Do you know how to read? I said that it didn't even break 1 million dollars. The money it made for just one 50 minute film is okay but that amount is not enough to fully fund multiple 12-26 episode Anime a year. PLUS they need money to pay their employees, pay their expenses, pay people to translate and provide subtitles for multiple languages, pay for distribution, pay for servers to host their shows, pay for advertisement and pay for marketing. The middleman and big wig companies take care of all of the above that I mentioned. They cut out that extra cost. If you cut out the middlemen and the big corporations the consumer will have to foot the bill for all of this. So we'll end up paying even more for Anime than we do now. And the current community won't even open their pockets to pay for a blu ray cause it's "too expensive" let a lone pay for a $7 subscription fee to access content legally cause it "doesn't go to the creators in Japan" even though you paying for sub fee's and blu ray's allow the middlemen to purchase more licenses which puts money back into the Japanese industry. Which gives the big wigs more money to be able to produce more Anime and in turn keep giving Animators jobs. At the end of the day, if you are thinking the way things work now is better, you're delusional. I and millions of others will continue to pirate, and do so happily because I'm paying shit to people who are just there to steal a large cut from the animators and creators (who get paid fucking dogshit) Lol says the guy that delusionally thinks that a fan run Anime industry is actually a sustainable and reliable way to run a business. What you're suggesting is fine for projects but it is not possible to run an ENTIRE industry with. Yes you and the 1 million others would likely STILL be pirating even if the industry did become grass root funded. You already don't want to pay any money for merchandise or streaming services which helps the industry continue to produce shows which gives animators jobs. So why the fuck would you be willing to shell out the 100's of dollars necessary to fund an entire industry? You and others are just justifying pirating. If you're gonna pirate at least just say you do it cause you don't wanna pay. Don't hide behind this "Animators don't get paid shit so I won't be paying shit" nonsense. Also in that article that pay is for ENTRY LEVEL ANIMATORS, higher level animators obviously make more. The wage would also be dependent on the company. P.A works is not a big company so of course their starting wages won't be as high as the bigger studios like Toei, Sunrise, Studio Ghibli. Ufotable and others. Ahh you got caught bullshiting and now you have to double back. "Even the Little Witch Academia Movie couldn't break 10 thousand and it was backed entirely by fans of the franchise. Studios would not make enough money to fund anything even if people were just supporting the stuff they wanted made. Cause there weren't even enough LWA fans donating to break 1 million dollars. If all these fans you seem to be talking about are so willing to throw their money at studios that go directly to them, they should have broke 1 million USD EASILY for past kick starters." Do you know how much the project was asking for originally? $150,000. Do you know how much they got? $625,518. So you tried to frame it as "how will anime survive they didn't even make the billionz" when the actually got over 4 times what they asked for. Are you trying to say crowdfunding will fail, and then use an example in which they raised quadruple what they needed? You're an actual joke. What would have happened if they asked for a million? You have no idea how much they could have gotten if people realized that the movie wouldn't happen unless they reached the specified goal. And, again, because you either have a egregiously short attention span or the memory of a goldfish, creditors and investors will still exist in a grassroots economy. This has and will never change. Studios and creators and always take loans (as they already do) and find investors (as they already do) to support projects they want to create but can raise enough capital doing through crowdfunding. "PLUS they need money to pay their employees, pay their expenses, pay people to translate and provide subtitles for multiple languages, pay for distribution, pay for servers to host their shows, pay for advertisement and pay for marketing. The middleman and big wig companies take care of all of the above that I mentioned. They cut out that extra cost. If you cut out the middlemen and the big corporations the consumer will have to foot the bill for all of this. So we'll end up paying even more for Anime than we do now." I don't know if I can keep correcting your 5 head economic logic, it's getting really bad. Who pays for the middle man and big wig companies? Hmm? Think real hard for a second please. THE CONSUMERS DO. Do you think these middle men work out of the goodness of their heart? No, there costs are added onto the costs of everything else you mentioned, which inflates the costs of the anime. If they are taken away from the picture, it would be the creators having to be in closer contact with all these other people, which they would also be under their own company of translators, people who own servers, and marketing advertisers. We just wouldn't be paying the extra money for some dude getting 100,000 a year to pick up the phone and call the companies to get the work, or for CR and FunI to monopolize the distribution and pay studios whatever scant amounts while keeping the lionshare for hosting it. 90% of the people saying "I'm not paying" are doing so because they aren't going to pay CR to walk all over the studios, not because its too expensive. Yeah 90% of that money goes into the big wigs pockets, and how much do the animators make, incase you've forgotten, I'll post again. "According to a Japan Animation Creators Association survey of 759 animators, the average yearly income is 1.1 million yen (US$9,648)." Wow I bet the animators are so happy you are buying all their content to keep their single bowl of rice on the table. So you are okay will literal slave labour if it makes big daddy CR happy, I guess. Lmao, okay, don't take my word then, I don't need to convince you, you are clearly to pig-headed to be convinced to begin with. I'll say again though, the only thing stopping me from buying anime content is how much of the money is going to the studios/creators. If there was a direct way for me to pay ShūzŠOshimi you better believe he'd be getting 20 dollar a month from me, at least. The amount of joy and worth I've gotten out of his content makes me feel compelled to pay him, and this is the fundamental thing you aren't getting about the situation. People have a propensity to compensate those who they feel deserve something. I get mad thinking about the fact I can't pay Oshimi or any other author or animator without some fuck sticking his hand out as well and taking 80% of it because he made a few phone calls and was lucky enough to have to powerful connections. I'm out, your stupidity knows no bounds and I'm having a brain hemorrhage reading what you've written. You clearly aren't that mad if you aren't even buying the books from these authors or creators since they do get royalties from each book sold. Even the authors themselves would tell you to buy their fucking books. Holy shit MAL never cease to amaze me. Imagine trying to justify your piracy by hiding behind a veil of righteousness that is "until the money goes directly into the creators hands I will not be paying for anything and will continue stealing" Like you're doing the creators some kind of a favor by not supporting these big wigs and middlemen that are helping fund the industry they work in which provides them fucking jobs. I don't even know why you're mad at the middlemen all they do is bring you a product and make it available to you legally. And they make profit off of that. It's not their fault why the Animators aren't getting paid as much as you think they should be. blame the Big wigs in Japan. Whatever helps you sleep at night though. By the way, kick starter takes like 30% of the money made from projects and then at least another 20% will go towards creating and shipping out the physical rewards to donators. Then the rest of the money has to go into producing the Anime and paying their staff. So they're basically left with next to nothing after all of that, and they likely had to ask investors to foot the funding to complete the rest of the project. I'm tired of talking to you, you're a fucking low IQ specimen. |
| Are you apathetic to all the Asians that can't access most of the paid streaming platforms? What is the point of this post? To circlejerk about how paying for your anime makes you better? Are you aware of how many people there are that pirate anime but they buy merch from official creators to support them because they know how shitty streaming services don't give shit to the anime industry. If one day Crunchyroll and Funimation just randomly died, its not like the anime industry would be crippled, unable to produce any anime. Y'all talkin shit like y'all keeping the industry alive. |
Arin-sanAug 19, 2020 8:23 PM
 I said keep your hands on the table |
Arin-san said: Are you apathetic to all the Asians that can't access most of the paid streaming platforms? What is the point of this post? To circlejerk about how paying for your anime makes you better? Are you aware of how many people there are that pirate anime but they buy merch from official creators to support them because they know how shitty streaming services don't give shit to the anime industry. If one day Crunchyroll and Funimation just randomly died, its not like the anime industry would be crippled, unable to produce any anime. Y'all talkin shit like y'all keeping the industry alive. If you actually bothered to read my post you'd realize that this isn't about people paying for Anime makes anyone better. And most Asian countries have their own services. And I never said that the Japanese industry would be crippled if CR went under. I'm so tired of you little tards not reading my post or just failing to comprehend anything. Yeah I'm willing to bet 30% of the people pirating actually buy merch. |
| This doesn't answer the question, but lowkey I'm scared that when time passes and I'm older I'll become entitled and put others down for not watching the masterpiece of fullmetal alchemist or some shit like that despite it being 30 years old by then. Like damn that'd be such a sad sight to see. |
0:00 ćāāāāāā 6:56Figendog said: This doesn't answer the question, but lowkey I'm scared that when time passes and I'm older I'll become entitled and put others down for not watching the masterpiece of fullmetal alchemist or some shit like that despite it being 30 years old by then. Like damn that'd be such a sad sight to see. What is this post even supposed to mean? |
Zeroflamez said: Figendog said: This doesn't answer the question, but lowkey I'm scared that when time passes and I'm older I'll become entitled and put others down for not watching the masterpiece of fullmetal alchemist or some shit like that despite it being 30 years old by then. Like damn that'd be such a sad sight to see. What is this post even supposed to mean? Ah, I was just saying that I'm sure people in the future will become entitled about the anime that came out recently (Like, the 2010's era), as I'm sure the cycle will continue on. I was talking about how sad it'd be if I became self entitled like that in the future, albeit I was trying to be comedic (I really doubt I'll become entitled in the future. I hope...) Sorry about that, things seemed pretty tense in this thread so I figured it might lighten things up |
Figendog said: Ah, I was just saying that I'm sure people in the future will become entitled about the anime that came out recently (Like, the 2010's era), as I'm sure the cycle will continue on. I was talking about how sad it'd be if I became self entitled like that in the future, albeit I was trying to be comedic (I really doubt I'll become entitled in the future. I hope...) Sorry about that, things seemed pretty tense in this thread so I figured it might lighten things up No worries dude. It's just hard to interpret things through text sometimes. I appreciate the thought of trying to lighten up this thread. |
Zeroflamez said: Figendog said: Ah, I was just saying that I'm sure people in the future will become entitled about the anime that came out recently (Like, the 2010's era), as I'm sure the cycle will continue on. I was talking about how sad it'd be if I became self entitled like that in the future, albeit I was trying to be comedic (I really doubt I'll become entitled in the future. I hope...) Sorry about that, things seemed pretty tense in this thread so I figured it might lighten things up No worries dude. It's just hard to interpret things through text sometimes. I appreciate the thought of trying to lighten up this thread. Haha, no problem dude! Remember kids: Why be entitled š³ š¤® when you can just let people vibe? š¤ Everyone has different taste š„µ š š§ š¤© š„³ āØ And that's okay šš |
Zeroflamez said: Arin-san said: Are you apathetic to all the Asians that can't access most of the paid streaming platforms? What is the point of this post? To circlejerk about how paying for your anime makes you better? Are you aware of how many people there are that pirate anime but they buy merch from official creators to support them because they know how shitty streaming services don't give shit to the anime industry. If one day Crunchyroll and Funimation just randomly died, its not like the anime industry would be crippled, unable to produce any anime. Y'all talkin shit like y'all keeping the industry alive. If you actually bothered to read my post you'd realize that this isn't about people paying for Anime makes anyone better. And most Asian countries have their own services. And I never said that the Japanese industry would be crippled if CR went under. I'm so tired of you little tards not reading my post or just failing to comprehend anything. Yeah I'm willing to bet 30% of the people pirating actually buy merch. You edited your original post, I saw your post in August 18th and I had already written a reply for this post along with the post link. This is the post I'm replying to: "I seriously don't understand. Leeches of the community bitch and moan about companies like Funimation and Crunchy Roll yet don't pay for their shit anyway and come up with every excuse in the book not to or why they can't.. They cry when Kiss Anime shuts down and stomp their feet cause they "DESERVE" to have a pirate site to have access to and act like victims. Now I'm not saying that I'm against pirating cause I'm not as long as you are giving something back from time to time. (I do do my fair share of sailing the seas) but I've also put A LOT of money into my own personal Anime collection. And seeing these kinds of entitled jack asses run around demanding free shit really irritates me. I've never seen a more entitled community that puts nothing into it and expects the entire world out of it." |
I said keep your hands on the table |
Arin-san said: Zeroflamez said: If you actually bothered to read my post you'd realize that this isn't about people paying for Anime makes anyone better. And most Asian countries have their own services. And I never said that the Japanese industry would be crippled if CR went under. I'm so tired of you little tards not reading my post or just failing to comprehend anything. Yeah I'm willing to bet 30% of the people pirating actually buy merch. You edited your original post, I saw your post in August 18th and I had already written a reply for this post along with the post link. This is the post I'm replying to: "I seriously don't understand. Leeches of the community bitch and moan about companies like Funimation and Crunchy Roll yet don't pay for their shit anyway and come up with every excuse in the book not to or why they can't.. They cry when Kiss Anime shuts down and stomp their feet cause they "DESERVE" to have a pirate site to have access to and act like victims. Now I'm not saying that I'm against pirating cause I'm not as long as you are giving something back from time to time. (I do do my fair share of sailing the seas) but I've also put A LOT of money into my own personal Anime collection. And seeing these kinds of entitled jack asses run around demanding free shit really irritates me. I've never seen a more entitled community that puts nothing into it and expects the entire world out of it." That was 2 days ago. No idea why you didn't just post that reply back then instead of waiting 2 days but whatever. Anyway I deleted that post and made a new one because it was too ranty and didn't get my point across clearly enough cause there were tons of pirates storming in here getting all angry. |
| I think this is really interesting actually. I was just browsing another forum about anime becoming mainstream and the negative/positive effects people thought it had on various aspects of the anime industry, community, etc. An interesting point that stood out to me was the fact that Japan is cracking down more on anime pirating now that anime has become more popular which makes perfect sense. The more capacity something has to make a profit, the more you care about keeping it within your grasp. Going along this train of thought, fansubbing is almost all but naught now, again, due to the increasing fansize and the creation of organizations seeking a profit that are able to more effectively sub/dub anime than fansubbers ever were. If anything, I think the anime community as time has passed, has become progressively less entitled than ever before. People are subbing more to legal streaming sites (regardless of the quality of their services) in increasing amounts and these sites are receiving more traffic than ever before. I think the reason it might seem like anime fans are more "entitled" is because, now more than ever, there are people who are calling out people who do not legally stream anime and there is more reason than ever before not to illegally stream it. I think that makes it seem like anime fans are more entitled than ever because now there's an actual argument going on about it but, when you really think about it and look at the numbers, anime fans are consuming anime legally at astounding rates. |
existentialist said: UberBat said: This is an argument that I don't agree with. (I agree with plenty of reasons to pirate but not this) It makes little sense. Unless you spend money on actual DVD's then just using free services you are contributing NOTHING to the Industry and your argument about supporting the creators falls by the wayside. If you do buy merchandise then I apologise and accept your reason. No, my central position is that I would rather pay nothing, than give the creators 5 cents of every dollar, and then 50+% goes to people who are literally only there because they have connections with someone else. I don't want to contribute to the industry, I want to contribute to the creators of the works without having vultures taking most of that money away from them and me. This is why I think the way its run right now is an archaic business practice that hasn't cued into the internet and how easily accessible the market is online. I don't want animators to only be paid 10 grand a year, and I don't want to support an industry that lets this happen. Can agree with the train of thought, can't really agree with the end result though. If everyone shared that opinion, that'd be the end of anime unfortunately. |
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| Wow a thread where the op responds after 4 pages. Don't get what you mean by the anime community being entitled. "demand things" as in demand what? bitch about shitty adaptation / art / etc or bitch about pirating sites or bitch about CR / funimation having shitty business practices? Personally, I don't use crunchyroll or funimation or any legal streaming site. Imo they're all garbage. Either due to the company and what they do - How Cr uses their money or funimation putting politcal garbage in subs / dubs or idiotic censorship. Or just the lack of available content. Unfortunately, I'm not a saint and I'm not willing to pay $10 a month to 15 different companies to try out anime. Though, on the otherhand I buy a lot of figures, blurays, light novels, manga, etc. However, even when I own the blu ray for a certain anime, I'll still most likely pirate it whenever I feel the need to watch it, since ultimately it's more convenient to consume all your content on 1 device without the need to plug in a blu ray player or move over to a tv. Same with light novels / manga, I'll buy the ln / manga, but personally I think it's significantly more convenient to download it onto your phone and be able to read anywhere without carrying out hundreds of pages. are, am I entitled? I genuinely don't know where I'm going with this. I guess on an agree / disagree standpoint of this thread, I'm on the 'I don't understand what the problem even is' side. |
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Inorichi said: existentialist said: No, my central position is that I would rather pay nothing, than give the creators 5 cents of every dollar, and then 50+% goes to people who are literally only there because they have connections with someone else. I don't want to contribute to the industry, I want to contribute to the creators of the works without having vultures taking most of that money away from them and me. This is why I think the way its run right now is an archaic business practice that hasn't cued into the internet and how easily accessible the market is online. I don't want animators to only be paid 10 grand a year, and I don't want to support an industry that lets this happen. Can agree with the train of thought, can't really agree with the end result though. If everyone shared that opinion, that'd be the end of anime unfortunately. This is where I think people are underestimating the power of consumers to shape markets. If literally every person supporting the industry said "We are done playing by your rules, we still want anime, but aren't going to accept it as is" and were serious about those comments and taking action to show it, business interest would flip almost immediately. People in the business world get away with what they can, if they have leverage they will use it to take more. If we say, "the only way we'll use your services is if you pay the creators better" they would undoubtedly take profit cuts for the survival of their business. I get the fear of anime disappearing, but people don't understand the demand is so high anime will never disappear because if even one person finds a way to supply it, everyone will flock to them and a new market will just emerge all over again. It's kind of like drugs. Most drugs are outlawed in most countries, but they are about as easy to find as a pack of gum in convenience store. And that's because the demand is so high that even making them illegal won't stop people from risking their lives to sell it because there will always be someone willing to pay for it. |
existentialist said: Inorichi said: Can agree with the train of thought, can't really agree with the end result though. If everyone shared that opinion, that'd be the end of anime unfortunately. This is where I think people are underestimating the power of consumers to shape markets. If literally every person supporting the industry said "We are done playing by your rules, we still want anime, but aren't going to accept it as is" and were serious about those comments and taking action to show it, business interest would flip almost immediately. People in the business world get away with what they can, if they have leverage they will use it to take more. If we say, "the only way we'll use your services is if you pay the creators better" they would undoubtedly take profit cuts for the survival of their business. I get the fear of anime disappearing, but people don't understand the demand is so high anime will never disappear because if even one person finds a way to supply it, everyone will flock to them and a new market will just emerge all over again. It's kind of like drugs. Most drugs are outlawed in most countries, but they are about as easy to find as a pack of gum in convenience store. And that's because the demand is so high that even making them illegal won't stop people from risking their lives to sell it because there will always be someone willing to pay for it. However, in the case of drugs or banned goods, there's a real and profitable market for them. For both the producer and the distributor. If you're talking about strictly denying distributors like crunchyroll, funimation, etc yeah that can agree, but not in the case of blu rays or dvds. Right now, only the distributor is making a lot of profit. As far as I know, nobody, other than VA's, are making a lot of money when it comes to producing anime. Distributors like CR & Funimation are basically leeches imo, that take a lionshare of the profit and spend it on the most ridiculous things. I wouldn't be surprised if they bought the licenses to titles ages ago for a set fee and made 200 fold in profits without giving a single dime back to the producers. Unfortunately, the anime industry (and Japan as a whole) has not adapted to 'modern society' well imo. I genuinely don't think studio's would go bankrupt if they stopped getting licensing fees from western distributors, but if bluray and dvd sales dropped to zero, I could definitely see some studios, maybe even every studio in due time closing their doors for good. On the distributor side of things; Though, I don't think it's possible to threaten crunchyroll, funimation, etc to dish out more money to the anime industry, if they do, it'll probably be for publicity and to attract more subscribers and not due to any profit concerns. Even then, it'll probably never be as much money the studio could have made themselves. |
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Dario333 said: After marvel this decade now this decade will be of ANIME. Japan just need to have ther own service. I am pirating and was disapointed by shoutdown of ilegal sites but very glad when i found the next day that anime studios plan their own youtube. Japan has oportunity to have the market of whole world but we yet to see that happen. Why even sell license to other western companies they just need to do that by themself. Japan needs to distribute anime by itself problems solved. Comics are selling bad for last years and with all that american SJW it is dying. Novel and manga sales are going even more up. Movie reboots fail bcs nobody wanted them, political propagand of SJW in series and movies is going hard and thats why it fails .Now we have entitled movie and series director,actors, writers (that pick up adaptations) who trash fans and change adaptations, works that are established and popular as they are and they dare to change them to bend their own political propaganda. Hoolywood is destroying itself. Netflix butchered Death Note, Disney plans to make black Little Mermaid, Charlie Angels rebot director blaming man for movie fail ( that should be enough of examples). There should be no political propaganda no changing story that is established, characters etc etc If America dont gets their hands on anime then ANIME is LAST HOPE of entertainment. Why people in anime comunity always argues It would cost Japan way too much money to do all the leg work it requires to advertise, market and distribute Anime if you cut out middlemen. In the current system the middlemen pay Japan for the license and that's it. Middlemen companies handle all of the distribution, localization and all that stuff using their own money. Inorichi said: Wow a thread where the op responds after 4 pages. Don't get what you mean by the anime community being entitled. "demand things" as in demand what? bitch about shitty adaptation / art / etc or bitch about pirating sites or bitch about CR / funimation having shitty business practices? Personally, I don't use crunchyroll or funimation or any legal streaming site. Imo they're all garbage. Either due to the company and what they do - How Cr uses their money or funimation putting politcal garbage in subs / dubs or idiotic censorship. Or just the lack of available content. Unfortunately, I'm not a saint and I'm not willing to pay $10 a month to 15 different companies to try out anime. Though, on the otherhand I buy a lot of figures, blurays, light novels, manga, etc. However, even when I own the blu ray for a certain anime, I'll still most likely pirate it whenever I feel the need to watch it, since ultimately it's more convenient to consume all your content on 1 device without the need to plug in a blu ray player or move over to a tv. Same with light novels / manga, I'll buy the ln / manga, but personally I think it's significantly more convenient to download it onto your phone and be able to read anywhere without carrying out hundreds of pages. are, am I entitled? I genuinely don't know where I'm going with this. I guess on an agree / disagree standpoint of this thread, I'm on the 'I don't understand what the problem even is' side. What I mean is how there's people in the community who have no interest in supporting Anime and just pirate all day. Then these same people are the ones that whine about not getting new seasons or things being cancelled. They're never happy with the amount of content available on legal sites, they expect these sites to have Kiss Anime sized catalog's. I just honestly can't see how someone can watch over 100 Anime and and not even open their wallet once to show a bit of support. It doesn't even have to be streaming, if you don't like streaming services, buy some DVD/ Blu-Ray's or Merch. I mean if you like Anime enough to watch 100's of shows and invest all that time into it, I think that means it's important enough to you to financially invest in it once in a while. Right now, only the distributor is making a lot of profit. As far as I know, nobody, other than VA's, are making a lot of money when it comes to producing anime. Distributors like CR & Funimation are basically leeches imo, that take a lionshare of the profit and spend it on the most ridiculous things. I wouldn't be surprised if they bought the licenses to titles ages ago for a set fee and made 200 fold in profits without giving a single dime back to the producers I've seen this sentiment quite a bit on this page. How exactly are CR and Funimation leeches? I think a lot of you guys tend to forget that Funimation and CR are a business. The whole point of localization is bringing over a product that people will buy and make the company money. Of course Funimation and CR will NEVER give a large portion of their money back to the producers and why should they? Them buying licenses for these shows are already paying the producers and if you guys think licenses are cheap I don't really know what to tell you. Especially the price for extremely profitable titles at that. I'm pretty sure that the producers get a percentage of the revenue from International sales too. So like how much money do you guys expect companies like Funi and CR to fork over? You guys also forget that these companies also gotta not only pull a profit for themselves but for their parent companies too. They can't just be making enough to keep the business running and throw the rest of the money at the Japanese industry.. |
ZeroflamezAug 20, 2020 10:38 AM
| Hasn't been the same for awhile now? Nothing new ig. |
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Inorichi said: existentialist said: This is where I think people are underestimating the power of consumers to shape markets. If literally every person supporting the industry said "We are done playing by your rules, we still want anime, but aren't going to accept it as is" and were serious about those comments and taking action to show it, business interest would flip almost immediately. People in the business world get away with what they can, if they have leverage they will use it to take more. If we say, "the only way we'll use your services is if you pay the creators better" they would undoubtedly take profit cuts for the survival of their business. I get the fear of anime disappearing, but people don't understand the demand is so high anime will never disappear because if even one person finds a way to supply it, everyone will flock to them and a new market will just emerge all over again. It's kind of like drugs. Most drugs are outlawed in most countries, but they are about as easy to find as a pack of gum in convenience store. And that's because the demand is so high that even making them illegal won't stop people from risking their lives to sell it because there will always be someone willing to pay for it. However, in the case of drugs or banned goods, there's a real and profitable market for them. For both the producer and the distributor. If you're talking about strictly denying distributors like crunchyroll, funimation, etc yeah that can agree, but not in the case of blu rays or dvds. Right now, only the distributor is making a lot of profit. As far as I know, nobody, other than VA's, are making a lot of money when it comes to producing anime. Distributors like CR & Funimation are basically leeches imo, that take a lionshare of the profit and spend it on the most ridiculous things. I wouldn't be surprised if they bought the licenses to titles ages ago for a set fee and made 200 fold in profits without giving a single dime back to the producers. Unfortunately, the anime industry (and Japan as a whole) has not adapted to 'modern society' well imo. I genuinely don't think studio's would go bankrupt if they stopped getting licensing fees from western distributors, but if bluray and dvd sales dropped to zero, I could definitely see some studios, maybe even every studio in due time closing their doors for good. On the distributor side of things; Though, I don't think it's possible to threaten crunchyroll, funimation, etc to dish out more money to the anime industry, if they do, it'll probably be for publicity and to attract more subscribers and not due to any profit concerns. Even then, it'll probably never be as much money the studio could have made themselves. I agree with pretty much everything you've said, which is why I'm heavily in support of moving to a internet focused market model wherein the creators are themselves the distributors of their own products. What is CR and FunI really? They are just streaming websites. All studios need on their teams are web designers and coders, and they could easily create the exact same thing CR has. Then they could do the exact same thing, but they would be getting most of the funds instead of paying for leeches at CR to give them pennies for licensing. It's even easier for mangakas and LN authors, because they wouldn't have to worry about creating their own video interface. They would just have to scan their works and put them on their websites. I still think the industry would adapt to the demands and move towards an online format because it would be where the money is, they just need the incentive and to know for sure that people would be ready and willing to buy directly from them. I agree, but that's because CR and their ilk have no incentive to change. I do know not many people like CR and other distributers, specifically because of their mercenary business practices, but do they know that? And, even if they do, there's obviously enough people supporting them (like dipshit OP here) so that they don't feel the need to make fairer deals with studios when licensing. It's kind of like how Nike and Apple pay people shit wages in developing countries to make their stuff on the cheap, but once it started getting lots of media attention and backlash they (apparently) moved towards more ethical practices. Maybe anime just isn't popular enough in the west yet and so CR will be able to hold on until it can become real national news, who knows. |
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