| consider that we are all in the adult age already (minimum 16-18 years old) when thinking about this should there never be censorship to entertainment or arts that we consume? if so when is censorship justified? im conflicted about this so i say i do not know but leaning towards yes because of the old saying we should separate fiction from reality even if the art/entertainment is trying to be realistic or influence our reality but then im not a fan of detailed gore and rape on story heavy fiction (rape is fine on porn though imo because we do not watch porn for the plot) |
| Yes for drawn/animated works; not so much for live action, for reasons that should be apparent upon cursory introspection. |
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SadMadoka said: Yes for drawn/animated works; not so much for live action, for reasons that should be apparent upon cursory introspection. ah ye like real life pedophilia in the live action porn industry is common so its unethical |
| Not entirely unlimited but not very controlled either. For example it wouldn't make sense to allow image destroying blatant lies about someone passed off as factual. When it's fictional characters anything should be good to go. Obscenity laws are ridiculous. I don't want politicians to outlaw what they personally are offended by. |
traed said: Not entirely unlimited but not very controlled either. For example it wouldn't make sense to allow image destroying blatant lies about someone passed off as factual. When it's fictional characters anything should be good to go. Obscenity laws are ridiculous. I don't want politicians to outlaw what they personally are offended by. how about artistic license then that excuse the none facts of an art for the sake of entertainment? i think that is where the problem lies because some fiction influences our reality already especially when an entertainment is "base on a true story" |
deg said: traed said: Not entirely unlimited but not very controlled either. For example it wouldn't make sense to allow image destroying blatant lies about someone passed off as factual. When it's fictional characters anything should be good to go. Obscenity laws are ridiculous. I don't want politicians to outlaw what they personally are offended by. how about artistic license then that excuse the none facts of an art for the sake of entertainment? i think that is where the problem lies because some fiction influences our reality already especially when an entertainment is called to be "base on a true story" There is a difference between parody and deception. |
traed said: deg said: how about artistic license then that excuse the none facts of an art for the sake of entertainment? i think that is where the problem lies because some fiction influences our reality already especially when an entertainment is called to be "base on a true story" There is a difference between parody and deception. but its easier said than to differentiate them right? especially for the sake of artistic license propaganda and art is common too |
deg said: but its easier said than to differentiate them right? especially for the sake of artistic license propaganda and art is common too Not really no. There is a totally different tone to things. Also im more talking about normal individuals more than public figures anyway. |
deg said: should there never be censorship to entertainment or arts that we consume? Coming from a Left-wing political point of view, artisans are free to express themselves in any way they deem fit (e.g. Weapon Brandishing, Full Nudity, Blood & Gore) and if certain patrons disagree with these works, this group of patrons should just walk away. deg said: if so when is censorship justified? Coming from a Right-wing political perspective, censorship is always justified by the Rule of Law, Cultural, and Moral Values of the specified jurisdiction. So if a certain country restricts questionable materials from being circulated within their territory, artisans will have to respect the lawmakers' decisions. These Right-wing politicians will argue that there are social implications of "what if people learn the wrong things, start doing the wrong things, and then blame the art as a source of inspiration and motivation?". Artisans will best flourish in a jurisdiction with a constitution governed by Left-wing Politicians, less censorship, and more freedom. |
JeForceXJul 19, 2020 8:31 PM
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| I'm just not sure that that a ten-year-old should have access to the same materials that, say, a thirty-year-old person would have access. Seems a bit off to me, especially regarding topics pertaining to sexuality, nudity, and violence. |
Armakan said: I'm just not sure that that a ten-year-old should have access to the same materials that, say, a thirty-year-old person would have access. Seems a bit off to me, especially regarding topics pertaining to sexuality, nudity, and violence. That's more a different topic though. |
Armakan said: I'm just not sure that that a ten-year-old should have access to the same materials that, say, a thirty-year-old person would have access. Seems a bit off to me, especially regarding topics pertaining to sexuality, nudity, and violence. There is debate over whether ratings systems constitute censorship. I believe ratings are a useful tool, at the least as a guideline, even when they are not legally enforced. That's more about access to content rather than whether creating and distributing said content should be criminalized. Regardless, when I was ten, I played M-rated games, watched R-rated movies, etc., so it's not like kids won't find a way to access what they want. (In this context.) Just look at all the young people on this site who watch anime with adult-oriented content. |
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traed said: deg said: but its easier said than to differentiate them right? especially for the sake of artistic license propaganda and art is common too Not really no. There is a totally different tone to things. Also im more talking about normal individuals more than public figures anyway. im not sure i understand you especially the tone of things part can you give examples? like are you fine with banning memes? since memes are not just art for entertainment but also an art for political propaganda |
SadMadoka said: Armakan said: I'm just not sure that that a ten-year-old should have access to the same materials that, say, a thirty-year-old person would have access. Seems a bit off to me, especially regarding topics pertaining to sexuality, nudity, and violence. There is debate over whether ratings systems constitute censorship. I believe ratings are a useful tool, at the least as a guideline, even when they are not legally enforced. That's more about access to content rather than whether creating and distributing said content should be criminalized. Regardless, when I was ten, I played M-rated games, watched R-rated movies, etc., so it's not like kids won't find a way to access what they want. (In this context.) Just look at all the young people on this site who watch anime with adult-oriented content. I find ratings not useful because they make a general claim and there is little transparency or consistency. A better rating system would just rate individual content on a scale and not make it age rated just rated for explicitness. deg said: im not sure i understand you especially the tone of things part can you give examples? like are you fine with banning memes? since memes are not just art for entertainment but also an art for political propaganda Comedy purposes versus serious tone to give the impression of truth. Memes are the anithesis to art. ....well except maybe art memes. |
traed said: I find ratings not useful because they make a general claim and there is little transparency or consistency. A better rating system would just rate individual content on a scale and not make it age rated just rated for explicitness. What would this content-based rating system you propose consist of? The entire point of ratings is to provide a guideline, primarily for parents who don't want their children exposed to certain content. |
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| lol who is voting yes on the poll when all replies here so far have BUT or exceptions to the rule kind of answers |
SadMadoka said: traed said: I find ratings not useful because they make a general claim and there is little transparency or consistency. A better rating system would just rate individual content on a scale and not make it age rated just rated for explicitness. What would this content-based rating system you propose consist of? The entire point of ratings is to provide a guideline, primarily for parents who don't want their children exposed to certain content. Different parents have different views on what is acceptable. Some may be against violence but fine with sex or against sexual content but fine with violent content or be against both but fine with cursing. Also if we're talking MPAA ratings they are terrible. I've seen a documentary on it before and read research on it's ratings. Basically instead of one rating it has several based on content. For example Violence 3 Sexual content 4 Language 5 I never worked out all the details of exactly what it should consist of just what it should look like . deg said: lol who is voting yes on the poll when all replies here so far have BUT or exceptions to the rule kind of answers Someone with alt accounts |
| Sure, provided that an artist that's willing to get into taboo and controversial topics is willing to deal with the consequences of doing so, speaking from my experience of a radical libtard trying to cancel me for making a painting about my past relationship issues. |
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traed said: Different parents have different views on what is acceptable. Some may be against violence but fine with sex or against sexual content but fine with violent content or be against both but fine with cursing. Also if we're talking MPAA ratings they are terrible. I've seen a documentary on it before and read research on it's ratings. Basically instead of one rating it has several based on content. For example Violence 3 Sexual content 4 Language 5 I never worked out all the details of exactly what it should consist of just what it should look like . Existing ratings are similar to that. R/M instead of PG-13/T gives an idea of how extreme it is, and they tend to include descriptions. M-rated games, for instance, often have descriptions like blood and gore, intense violence, language, sexual themes, use of alcohol, and so on. ...The literal definition of gore is blood, so I find "blood and gore" redundant. XD It seems to me that dispensing with the single rating would just make things more difficult, for both ratings boards and consumers. |
SmugSatokoJul 19, 2020 9:21 PM
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traed said: deg said: im not sure i understand you especially the tone of things part can you give examples? like are you fine with banning memes? since memes are not just art for entertainment but also an art for political propaganda Comedy purposes versus serious tone to give the impression of truth. Memes are the anithesis to art. ....well except maybe art memes. its a shame you dismiss memes as art because memes can be both for comedic purposes (jokes are half-truths) and serious purposes too to me as long as human expression is applied then its art so ye its very broad meaning imo |
deg said: but then im not a fan of detailed gore and rape on story heavy fiction Which I respect but isn't the topic about limiting artistic freedom? Or are you implying that gore and rape shouldn't be allowed because you don't like seeing them? It's funny how our society thinks it's becoming less and less influenced by religion but is ignoring the fact that it creates a new system of belief that is based on the same concept and principles as the very abrahamic religions they are ridiculing. I wonder how long it would take before our society starts ostracizing and even punishing anyone who disagrees with our contemporary moral standards. We can already see it happening with the whole cancel culture thing. The only path to becoming successful as an artist in this day and age is by being a political prostitute for the establishment and parroting the same opinions as everybody else. It's almost as if you decapitated Jehova, took his empyrean throne and added 100 new commandments for the population to bow and kowtow to. It's absolutely ridiculous. |
traed said: Memes are the anithesis to art. ....well except maybe art memes. If it weren't for memes and Lushsux, I wouldn't have been able to tolerate the pretentious cunts back in art school. |
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149597871 said: deg said: but then im not a fan of detailed gore and rape on story heavy fiction Which I respect but isn't the topic about limiting artistic freedom? Or are you implying that gore and rape shouldn't be allowed because you don't like seeing them? It's funny how our society thinks it's becoming less and less influenced by religion but is ignoring the fact that it creates a new system of belief that is based on the same concept and principles as the very abrahamic religions they are ridiculing. I wonder how long it would take before our society starts ostracizing and even punishing anyone who disagrees with our contemporary moral standards. We can already see it happening with the whole cancel culture thing. The only path to becoming successful as an artist in this day and age is by being a political prostitute for the establishment and parroting the same opinions as everybody else. It's almost as if you decapitated Jehova, took his empyrean throne and added 100 new commandments for the population to bow and kowtow to. It's absolutely ridiculous. limiting artistic freedom is censorship though while i agree that we as a society is jut rehashing old religion morals the difference is its lesser level compared to old religious morals and the morality is now base solely on philosophy rather than a sacred holy book which for example those said holy books allow slavery to be acceptable |
149597871 said: @deg You can choose not to watch it? Why it has to be censored? Well, I guess slavery is unacceptable if our new religion says so. Is that the final commandment or there's more? true thats why im leaning towards full artistic freedom more for adults that is im not sure what you mean lol its just morality is man made for the sake of living in a society and society is changing too so we rather make morality base on current society rather than basing it on imaginary beings like god/s of the past? even if that means there are similarities or rehashes |
| @SadMadoka Gore is guts and meaty bits rather than blood I think. It's not the same because it suggests for others what for what age instead of letting people think for themselves and while they may at times include content mentions they do not tell you the level of the content. If they can't even figure out that much it's a sign they shouldn't have kids. My system also is intended for other than parents . @deg @NexivSelecaf I mean that in the sense of when they lack artistic skill and artistic thought and is just lazy photo editing not that they can not be a type of art or done artistically. |
traed said: @deg @NexivSelecaf I mean that in the sense of when they lack artistic skill and artistic thought and is just lazy photo editing not that they can not be a type of art or done artistically. how about the text on memes though? arent they art already too? |
deg said: traed said: @deg @NexivSelecaf I mean that in the sense of when they lack artistic skill and artistic thought and is just lazy photo editing not that they can not be a type of art or done artistically. how about the text on memes though? arent they art already too? If you're too loose with the term art literally anything can be art and art loses significance because of it. I could say just posting this reply is art because it has human expression in it. |
traed said: If you're too loose with the term art literally anything can be art and art loses significance because of it. I could say just posting this reply is art because it has human expression in it. lol yep that is very true and thats what i meant by art as very broad term |
traed said: @SadMadoka Gore is guts and meaty bits rather than blood I think. It's not the same because it suggests for others what for what age instead of letting people think for themselves and while they may at times include content mentions they do not tell you the level of the content. If they can't even figure out that much it's a sign they shouldn't have kids. My system also is intended for other than parents . I already clearly stated that the definition of gore is blood. Consult dictionaries if in doubt. I said similar, not "the same"... It doesn't prevent people from thinking for themselves; it's merely a guideline based on how people generally perceive things. The age rating gives you an idea of the extremity level, as I already covered. The existing rating systems can be useful to anyone, not just parents, and it's not all that different from your version. |
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deg said: 149597871 said: @deg You can choose not to watch it? Why it has to be censored? Well, I guess slavery is unacceptable if our new religion says so. Is that the final commandment or there's more? true thats why im leaning towards full artistic freedom more for adults that is im not sure what you mean lol its just morality is man made for the sake of living in a society and society is changing too so we rather make morality base on current society rather than basing it on imaginary beings like god/s of the past? even if that means there are similarities or rehashes Or because the need of imaginary beings and the concept of divine punishment is gone when you have all these other tools to ensure obedience? Doesn't seem like a big difference to me. In fact it is exactly because of what you said. It is changing accordingly. Why you have to oversimplify everything by labeling it as good/bad (or evil) or morally right/morally wrong? Or is it more convenient for you because you don't have to come up with logical arguments against things such as slavery or rape? It prevents you from even using logic as you already have morals that condemn these things and even discussing them from another, more rational, perspective is deplored. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a fan of rape myself and I don't think slavery (at least in its original sense) is the way to go forward but there's no need to transcend rationality here by using gods and morals as an excuse. |
149597871Jul 19, 2020 10:23 PM
149597871 said: deg said: but then im not a fan of detailed gore and rape on story heavy fiction Which I respect but isn't the topic about limiting artistic freedom? Or are you implying that gore and rape shouldn't be allowed because you don't like seeing them? It's funny how our society thinks it's becoming less and less influenced by religion but is ignoring the fact that it creates a new system of belief that is based on the same concept and principles as the very abrahamic religions they are ridiculing. I wonder how long it would take before our society starts ostracizing and even punishing anyone who disagrees with our contemporary moral standards. We can already see it happening with the whole cancel culture thing. The only path to becoming successful as an artist in this day and age is by being a political prostitute for the establishment and parroting the same opinions as everybody else. It's almost as if you decapitated Jehova, took his empyrean throne and added 100 new commandments for the population to bow and kowtow to. It's absolutely ridiculous. I just gotta say you've been getting very based lately. Proud of you. @SadMadoka Kids watching R-rated movies and playing M-rated video games they aren't supposed to is just a rite of passage. I mean, does anybody actually expect people to wait until they are 17 before watching movies with sex scenes in them? |
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149597871 said: deg said: true thats why im leaning towards full artistic freedom more for adults that is im not sure what you mean lol its just morality is man made for the sake of living in a society and society is changing too so we rather make morality base on current society rather than basing it on imaginary beings like god/s of the past? even if that means there are similarities or rehashes Or because the need of imaginary beings and the concept of divine punishment is gone when you have all these other tools to ensure obedience? Doesn't seem like a big difference to me. In fact it is exactly because of what you said. It is changing accordingly. Why you have to oversimplify everything by labeling it as good/bad (or evil) or morally right/morally wrong? Or is it more convenient for you because you don't have to come up with logical arguments against things such as slavery or rape? It prevents you from even using logic as you already have morals that condemn these things and even discussing them from another, more rational, perspective is deplored. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a fan of rape myself and I don't think slavery (at least in its original sense) is the way to go forward but there's no need to transcend rationality here by using gods and morals as an excuse. i go for utilitarianism in most cases as my moral standard and to me rape (which is link to none responsibility of a father which affects a child badly) and gore (which is link to killing or violence) is not for the greatest good for the greatest number of people if you promote this things and becomes the norm then err im sure you would disagree with it too or you have different justification why you hate rape? yes we go back to the saying games do not promote violence and porn does not cause rape though |
SadMadoka said: traed said: @SadMadoka Gore is guts and meaty bits rather than blood I think. It's not the same because it suggests for others what for what age instead of letting people think for themselves and while they may at times include content mentions they do not tell you the level of the content. If they can't even figure out that much it's a sign they shouldn't have kids. My system also is intended for other than parents . I already clearly stated that the definition of gore is blood. Consult dictionaries if in doubt. I said similar, not "the same"... It doesn't prevent people from thinking for themselves; it's merely a guideline based on how people generally perceive things. The age rating gives you an idea of the extremity level, as I already covered. The existing rating systems can be useful to anyone, not just parents, and it's not all that different from your version. I mean contextually it seems to mean that in how it's used. Gore implies more violent and severe than blood. Fine it's similar but different in implications and methodology. How people perceive things isn't universal. Also placing age ratings maintains the status quo by having an authority suggest what is appropriate even though there is no scientific basis for it or even match what the general public actually believes. |
BallistikJuice said: ysphyr said: I’m pro-censorship of everything and especially of art and entertainment. “Artistic freedom” is a sham used by freaks of all sorts to cover their vile fantasies. Thankfully it seems like the world moves towards censorship. Neat. Calling artists "freaks" is only applicable to other artists, and to my knowledge, you are not one of them. He's She's not wrong, though. In addition to the prudes, I've also had to deal with some freaks, geeks, weirdos and social retards. And there were only so many paintings of vaginas that I can look at before I start to question whether I'm supposed to "respect women" as if there aren't more creative ways to express feminism and femininity other than emulating Kim Kardashian, or masturbate if the details involving the clitoris and labia were accurate enough; bonus nut busted for including pubic hair. But then again, the notion of having a "conversation" about artists and censorship with someone who seems to be okay with the censored version of Cardcaptor Sakura just strikes me as eventual autistic screeching. ...and K-On! was supposed to put me in a good mood. |
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| The only limits I would ever consider is when the "art" is explicitly resulting in major criminal activity (i.e. CP or drill rap). When art is stifled, society becomes stagnant. Most limits currently in place are there to pander to the lowest common denominator of the boring masses who can't appreciate or enjoy the spirit of creativity. |
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BallistikJuice said: @NexivSelecaf, I don't know about Kardashian since I don't know who they are, but her, I cannot grasp these kinds of people, she obviously doesn't know how much effort, time and emotional process (and even their IRL difficulties for certain) artists have to go through to create their art, if she did she won't be saying nonsense like that. Heck, my dad never even finished his last lewd oil painting (because he died) and I never even thought of him that he's a freak, and I cherish that painting to this day even if it's unfinished since good art is always a good art, and if it's done by someone you knew then it's even better. Well to set my personal bullshit aside, the pro-censorship crowd can fuck off worse than the pseudo-intellectual artists that I bitch and complain about. I won't say much about my emotional journey (not a list of thing that I'm willing to share on a message board), but I too look down on those that would rather live in la-la land because they're too sheltered to handle other people's thoughts and opinions being expressed though art or just said outright. So those who genuinely believe that art should be censored can eat a dick as far as I'm concerned, same for those who write off certain viewpoints as just being perverse. But without knowing ysphyr personally, I'm not willing to bet on her post being serious or satirical; it doesn't affect me either way. My condolences for your father. |
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| @ProfessionalNEET first time i heard about that movie and it reminds me about the worry and controversy about The Joker movie recently lol |
| On the topic of pornography...the censoring of nearly all genitals in Japanese porn (both live action and animated) is some of the biggest BS out there. Kinda defeats the purpose... The fact that it is tied to an actual law makes me think that whoever is behind it is straight-up mentally retarded. Ryuk9428 said: Kids watching R-rated movies and playing M-rated video games they aren't supposed to is just a rite of passage. I mean, does anybody actually expect people to wait until they are 17 before watching movies with sex scenes in them? Yep...you basically repeated the point I already made. traed said: I mean contextually it seems to mean that in how it's used. Gore implies more violent and severe than blood. Fine it's similar but different in implications and methodology. How people perceive things isn't universal. Also placing age ratings maintains the status quo by having an authority suggest what is appropriate even though there is no scientific basis for it or even match what the general public actually believes. Although the primary definition for gore is shed blood, another is "gruesomeness depicted in vivid detail"...so that's indeed broad enough for whatever. I said the way people generally perceive things. That doesn't mean it's universal. The existence of any (legal) ratings system is predicated upon an authority of some sort. In your own system, subjective assessments of where categories rank on a scale would still appoint the raters as authorities on the matter, in a sense; you merely wouldn't go so far as to recommend any age ranges. I just don't think it's practical. And I'm pretty sure most parents don't want their young kids to watch R-rated movies. It's not a scientific endeavor, at any rate. NexivSelecaf said: Well to set my personal bullshit aside, the pro-censorship crowd can fuck off worse than the pseudo-intellectual artists that I bitch and complain about. I won't say much about my emotional journey (not a list of thing that I'm willing to share on a message board), but I too look down on those that would rather live in la-la land because they're too sheltered to handle other people's thoughts and opinions being expressed though art or just said outright. So those who genuinely believe that art should be censored can eat a dick as far as I'm concerned, same for those who write off certain viewpoints as just being perverse. But without knowing ysphyr personally, I'm not willing to bet on her post being serious or satirical; it doesn't affect me either way. Well said. Without freedom of speech/expression, you can say goodbye to any semblance of civilization. |
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| Censorship is the only way to stop mongrels from doing their own bidding. What is called modern art is in no way art but a sham instead. Such a lesser existence must therefore be cleansed from the face of earth. Entertainment industry wise I can get behind most stuff. |
  “The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!” |
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