What is a loli to you?
Pre-pubescent in features and canon age
18.6%
39
Pre-pubescent in features only
59.5%
125
Under ~18 in features only
13.3%
28
Under ~18 in features and canon age
8.6%
18
210 votes
| Help me settle a Twitter debate. I always thought loli, in the anime world, meant a girl who appears pre-pubescent regardless of canon age. Of course, the UN would define it as any drawing of a girl that looks under 32, especially if drawn in the moe art style, but I'm strictly talking in the anime community. The question is: Is Megumin a loli? Obviously she gets called explosion loli and apparently she is called a loli in the anime. I've only seen season one and don't remember it, but maybe it's said in season two? Either way I'd expect it to be a joke meant to tease her, not serious. As far as I'm concerned she looks her age (14-16 depending on where in timeline) and that doesn't count as loli. She is one of those petite characters that could easily be in high school. Slap F cup boobs on her and everyone would say she is 18 or so. If girls like Megumin count as lolis then any high school age anime girl with small breasts is a loli. Are we really going to go the way of letting the UN decide what counts as loli? To be clear, I'm not against lolis, it's a strange exagerration of petite features and I've no problem with eroticizing them. Healthy-minded individuals can seperate fiction from reality and enjoy strange things like lolis, in my opinion (can, not necessarily does). I honestly didn't start this thread for a debate about lolis, but it's inevitable so I put that brief summation of my stance out there. I just think it's dangerous direction to start counting girls like Megumin as lolis. Anime culture has long celebrated the beauty of the cuteness and innocence of youth. I feel like the seperation between regular anime girl and loli is important for making a statement about what represents a girl which is normal to find attractive, and what is a slightly weird fetish (again, no judgment). So, I ask: What's a loli to you? And is Megumin one? |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| To be a loli she only needs to look like a kid, for example, shinobu from monogatari is actually 500 years old, or Tatsumaki from One punch man is 28 years old, but also Megumin is a loli because she is already a kid |
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| My definition would be a character that looks AND acts like a prepubescent girl, is still in gradeschool etc. Although the majority of the anime community would probably agree to disagree, as the most generally accepted definition is anyone who looks underage. Eg. Rory Mercury Megumin best girl, not a loli. |
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beminim said: My definition would be a girl that looks younger than what she usually is. Yue from arifureta, that demon girl from that grooming anime that is currently airing, and that fox girl from spring seaso Yeah cant deny that Yue is a Loli, haven't seen the other 2. I guess I would have to say the sexualization of younger looking characters has more to do with it than anything I've mentioned above. |
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| the term loli technically comes from the term lolita, but both have taken on very different meanings, although they can both be applied at the same time speaking briefly; the first one (loli) heading for something like "childish appearance" and the second (lolita) walking towards something like "seductive underage girl" personally speaking I don't think Megumin fits any of the terms, I just think she's a girl with petite but not childish traits |
Mythologically said: I second this man. The age doesn't matter at all.megumin is 13/14/15 depending on where in the timeline we are. that is not a loli. a loli is a small child if you look like a small child, you are a loli. actual age does not matter whatsoever |
The word elitist is stupid since it's just used by people who can't defend their favorite shows and use it on people who criticize their favorite shows.  |
AnimeAnima said: My definition would be a character that looks AND acts like a prepubescent girl, is still in gradeschool etc. Although the majority of the anime community would probably agree to disagree, as the most generally accepted definition is anyone who looks underage. Eg. Rory Mercury Megumin best girl, not a loli. Megumin is the only annoying character of KonoSuba I really don't understand the hype. x) For me a loli is a character showed acting like a little cute girl and the story support this aspect. So Kaori Mizayono from Shigatsu is not a loli because they don't infantilize the caracter. Rin from Usagi Drop is a child and she acts like a normal child. It's not the same for Gochuumon for exemple, these are lolis. |
beminim said: AnimeAnima said: Technically I have only watched arifureta, but the grooming anime I mentioned is called if it's for my daughter i'd even defeat a demon Lord. Not sure how old the girl is, but apparently she has horns so I would assume she is older than she looks? Doesn't really look like the anime is currently sexualizing her but I am not sure. The fox girl is apparently older than 300 years.Yeah cant deny that Yue is a Loli, haven't seen the other 2. I guess I would have to say the sexualization of younger looking characters has more to do with it than anything I've mentioned above. Yeah, typically lolis tend to be sexualized. I never understood their appeal but well, as long as those people aren't really into real little girls, whatever. Most Loli type characters have very thin bodies. I personally like rounder women but to each their own. Anime girls aren't real anyway Oh, If it's not for my daughter? So far not a loli, I'm not sure where all this stuff about it being a "grooming anime" comes from, so far it kinda reminds me of Usagi Drop with a fantasy twist. And anyone who thinks Usagi Drop is a story about forbidden love hasn't actually watched the series and therefore should not comment. Shes like 9 in the anime, Latina, and I cant see how that would go over. |
Israel_Is_EvilSep 1, 2019 8:04 PM
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HaarWyvern said: AnimeAnima said: My definition would be a character that looks AND acts like a prepubescent girl, is still in gradeschool etc. Although the majority of the anime community would probably agree to disagree, as the most generally accepted definition is anyone who looks underage. Eg. Rory Mercury Megumin best girl, not a loli. Megumin is the only annoying character of KonoSuba I really don't understand the hype. x) For me a loli is a character showed acting like a little cute girl and the story support this aspect. So Kaori Mizayono from Shigatsu is not a loli because they don't infantilize the caracter. Rin from Usagi Drop is a child and she acts like a normal child. It's not the same for Gochuumon for exemple, these are lolis. She's a close 1st ahead of Aqua in my books. What I like about her is her dedication to magic, and how she collapses after casting. Really though it's not like I meant she's best girl in ALL anime. I just have never said that cliche line before and felt prompted by the first post :/ |
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beminim said: AnimeAnima said: im sorry if I spoiled you but it kind of is at least from what I saw online... When you Google it and see the covers of the light novel and how the plot goes, yeah.....I don't think I'm misjudging but wow she is 9 in the anime? Yikes.I thought she was an older character in a child looking bodyOh, If it's not for my daughter? So far not a loli, I'm not sure where all this stuff about it being a "grooming anime" comes from, so far it kinda reminds me of Usagi Drop with a fantasy twist. Shes like 9 in the anime and I cant see how that would go over. Hmm, I saw one cover of Dale dressed in regular clothes hugging a much older Latina in a wedding dress but half the covers show them hugging so who knows, otherwise dont see anything that indicates that. Unless they timeskip in the next couple episodes I dont see it happening in the anime. Also they make clear that demons, Latinas race, age at half the rate of humans so who knows. But it is anime so I guess I shouldn't be surprised if it actually does happen. (Edit: okay so I guess hes wearing a tuxedo in that no.8 light novel...) |
Israel_Is_EvilSep 1, 2019 8:29 PM
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| Pre-pubescent in features only (your vote) so Tatsumaki (One Punch Man) despite being an adult and legal age is still a loli to me |
| My own definition of loli is simply height+face. Young-looking face girls with 150cm below are lolis. Doesn't matter whether they have A cup or G cup or 300yo, there are terms called Oppai Loli & Legal Loli pfft |
| Pre-pubescent in features and canon age (your vote) That's what it means at its core, being derived from the term 'lolita'. It is also applied by some people to characters who are simply 'petite', but I see that as just being based on partial similarities, as a sort of reference to the original/core concept, but not because it's identical, but only because of one aspect of the original definition being present in the character. Someone like Shinobu gets called a loli because she looks like one, even tho she technically isn't one. There definitely is a fundamental difference between a prepubescent character in body and mind, and a character that only looks like a child but has a mature mind that stands in contrast to those looks. Pretending they are the same thing doesn't make sense to me when the two have very different appeals and play out very differently, giving scenes a very different tone etc... Using one and the same term for two pretty different types of character robs us of a linguistic option to make that distinction and I don't see what's the upside to that. When I say I like lolis, and people think I mean old characters that look arbitrarily young, that just creates a misunderstanding. That's why to me there will always be a difference between actual 'lolis' where age is an important part of the definitions, and the 'loli bodytype' or the 'loli artstyle' or 'legal lolis' and 'oppai lolis' where it is irrelevant and other aspects are more important to the definition. But I will say that I'm not THAT strict with the age requirement since I think it's fluid to some degree, and while it's technically about prepubescent characters I'm not averse to including middle school-aged characters like Megumin at 14 in the mix (and neither is Nhentai btw). 12-14, the middle school age in Japan/anime is kind of a a transition zone in the middle between lolis and highschool girls, neither completely here nor there, but depending on the character some feel more like lolis and some feel more like 'school girls', with Megumin being more of a loli to me because she's pretty childish and immature. But as I said, this age group is like a grey zone so how you see a character will be kinda subjective and there is little point in arguing semantically, expecting to come to a definite conclusion in every corner case like Megumin. Just look at her doujins, depending on whether the artstyle is more mature or more childish looking sometimes they get tagged with the loli tag and sometimes they don't. She's right on the border. In my case I just know that Megumin tickles my lolicon senses, so I'm going with that. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
beminim said: AnimeAnima said: yeah the way I see the anime going, they probably won't go for another route other than the father/daughter dynamic. Guess we won't be seeing the imouto dramaggedon back when that orange haired girl did marry her brother. Guess in anime everything goes....Hmm, I saw one cover of Dale dressed in regular clothes hugging a much older Latina in a wedding dress but half the covers show them hugging so who knows, otherwise dont see anything that indicates that. Unless they timeskip in the next couple episodes I dont see it happening in the anime. Also they make clear that demons, Latinas race, age at half the rate of humans so who knows. But it is anime so I guess I shouldn't be surprised if it actually does happen. So I dug a little deeper, which I wish I hadn't, and all I can say is this is why I don't really read manga/light novels ... Also I guess I was wrong about Usagi Drop :( Still like the show, just wish the postscript didn't exist. |
Israel_Is_EvilSep 1, 2019 9:37 PM
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| You're missing a certain option. YossaRedMage said: I rarely use the term myself since I personally find it distasteful, and I'm aware that other people use the term for several different meanings, but if I were to use it it'd refer specifically to "little girl who looks prepubescent and is sexualized", since there is (like it or not) definitely some implication of sexualization in the way people use the term, as well as in its etymology. Since the sexualization has to do with appearance, this definition ignores canon age.What's a loli to you? ...also where is this twitter debate |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| It's a description based on physical appearance regardless of actual age. For added effect it works best when applied to characters of similar age who are notably different in appearance. To use the opening example of Megumin, if you were compare Megumin to say Darkness or Yunyun then there's a notable physical difference despite Yunyun being the same age (which they poked fun at) or Darkness only being 3 years older. If you take a show like Yuri Yuri as a counterexample then you'd have to make a choice because physically all the characters look relatively the same age with no outlandish physical traits. Based on a personal definition you could consider them lolis, but in the context of the show you would essentially be saying every character is a loli which defeats the purpose of having it as a descriptor. |
| The whole loli thing is beyond ridiculous....literally NO ONE can agree on the rules, and I personally don't care. I mean, for god sakes, Hestia (from DanMachi) is called a loli! And she's got huge tits. I find the loli debates amusing....I mean, we're arguing about whether the lines of drawings should be this or that, and it's just too much for me. |
| I think loli is prepubescent-looking, and I don't think Megumin fits that. Megumin is flat, but she doesn't really look that young; she looks about her age. I also think that a lot of popular anime "lolis," eg Tatsumaki and Rory who often cited as being legal lolis, actually don't look it at all. Really they are just short and flat, which a lot of Japanese people are, calling that childlike kind of insulting. Rory isn't even that short, she's 162cm. Better examples of legal lolis would be like Kanna or Shinobu. |
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| I think the common mistake when we think about anime character design is to think of character's features only in terms of how they mimic real life feature, not in terms of how they contrast with every other character in the same show. If you transport Kirito from SAO to the world of Cowboy Bebop or Jojo, his character design would makes him look like a 9 year old girl, not a 16 year old teenage boy. Eye-to-face ratio and head-to-body-height ration mean nothing unless they are contrasted with other character of a different age range and gender. |
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| While I get that loli was derived from the word lolita it doesn't mean the same thing anymore. Urban dictionary: Wikipedia: Lolicon Lolita: My answer is it can mean both in traits or actual prepubscent girls, it can even refer to fashion, refer to porn. And so on. It doesn't mean the same thing anymore language changes over time. And I'm pretty sure the usage of it these days simply refer to young or not matured in physical appearance aka petite. That's why you have immortal billion year old loli gods and such. Yes they are lolis. Context. If I have to pick one "Pre-pubescent in features only". |
TuturuChanSep 1, 2019 10:48 PM
GlennMagusHarvey said: You're missing a certain option. YossaRedMage said: I rarely use the term myself since I personally find it distasteful, and I'm aware that other people use the term for several different meanings, but if I were to use it it'd refer specifically to "little girl who looks prepubescent and is sexualized", since there is (like it or not) definitely some implication of sexualization in the way people use the term, as well as in its etymology. Since the sexualization has to do with appearance, this definition ignores canon age.What's a loli to you? ...also where is this twitter debate It's not a big thing. I saw a post that called Megumin a loli and then I saw a post with someone else saying she wasn't so I tweeted that she isn't thinking it was a thing, but haven't seen any other tweets about it. My tweet got a response which led in to a debate in DMs. I can get on board with your definition. I'm not a big fan of how the term sexualization is used, but I don't have another word for it so that will do. There is a clear difference between Renge from Non Non Biyori and Shinobu from Monogatari. Even though they are only about 2 years apart (Renge is 7 and Shinobu is physically I think supposed to be 9). But I don't like the idea of sexualizing Renge because her character is so realistically child-like and it doesn't work within the tone of the anime she is from. Shinobu is another matter. Apart from of course mentally being much older, the show itself presents her in a very sexual way and the tone of the show is much less real-life so that kind of taboo fetishistic stuff fits. With Monogatari, one, if they have the capability, can put the real world to the side and indulge in a kind of otherworldly sensual experience that entails girls with extremely exagerrated petite features. CHC said: I think the common mistake when we think about anime character design is to think of character's features only in terms of how they mimic real life feature, not in terms of how they contrast with every other character in the same show. If you transport Kirito from SAO to the world of Cowboy Bebop or Jojo, his character design would makes him look like a 9 year old girl, not a 16 year old teenage boy. Eye-to-face ratio and head-to-body-height ration mean nothing unless they are contrasted with other character of a different age range and gender. This is absolutely true that people don't take in to account overall art style. Lucky Star is a good example of a show where people who don't know the show or aren't familiar with anime art style / culture (or even sometimes people who should really know better) think the girls are super young / lolis. It's an extension of the tendency for people to confuse real life and fiction. Where they have to compare everything in a piece of fiction to real life, instread of the world they are created in or the culture at large surrounding the work. If I think Kagami from Lucky Star is cute, I like her personality, and I don't compare the way she is drawn to real life, so I don't think of her as anything but a high school age girl drawn in a art style that exagerrates cute features, then it makes sense if I think of her sexually sometimes. But even saying that will get some people up-in-arms because they think "well if he can think of a drawing that vaguely looks like a real life child sexually then clearly he is looking at flesh and blood human being in the same way". It sounds dumb as shit when phrased like that, as if I couldn't possibly have empathy which would prevent the sexual attraction from ever occuring in the real life situation, but it's what a worrying amount of people both within and without the anime community actually believe. It really is a poisonous perspective. In many ways, I wish I had never engaged with anyone or talked to anyone about anime. When I first started watching, I never considered the small cute girls as comparable to flesh and blood children. Now, I can't enjoy a show without the thought coming in to my head that there are many thousands of people out there who see what I am watching as comparable to child porn. I think that is probably the case with many anime fans. One starts with a sound, reasonable mind but then when exposed to extremely negative perspectives, one can't help but think about them, even if they don't agree. The negativity is so pernicious that sometimes even seeing a short skirt on a young character will give me pause. I just want to enjoy fucking anime without this judgmental moralizing nonsense that has nothing to do with the real world. It's just people saying they don't like what they see, and they use accusations of pedophilia as a way of legitimizing their prejudices. it's no different from people saying they don't want to see gay relationships in anime. Pullman said: Pre-pubescent in features and canon age (your vote) That's what it means at its core, being derived from the term 'lolita'. It is also applied by some people to characters who are simply 'petite', but I see that as just being based on partial similarities, as a sort of reference to the original/core concept, but not because it's identical, but only because of one aspect of the original definition being present in the character. Someone like Shinobu gets called a loli because she looks like one, even tho she technically isn't one. There definitely is a fundamental difference between a prepubescent character in body and mind, and a character that only looks like a child but has a mature mind that stands in contrast to those looks. Pretending they are the same thing doesn't make sense to me when the two have very different appeals and play out very differently, giving scenes a very different tone etc... Using one and the same term for two pretty different types of character robs us of a linguistic option to make that distinction and I don't see what's the upside to that. When I say I like lolis, and people think I mean old characters that look arbitrarily young, that just creates a misunderstanding. That's why to me there will always be a difference between actual 'lolis' where age is an important part of the definitions, and the 'loli bodytype' or the 'loli artstyle' or 'legal lolis' and 'oppai lolis' where it is irrelevant and other aspects are more important to the definition. But I will say that I'm not THAT strict with the age requirement since I think it's fluid to some degree, and while it's technically about prepubescent characters I'm not averse to including middle school-aged characters like Megumin at 14 in the mix (and neither is Nhentai btw). 12-14, the middle school age in Japan/anime is kind of a a transition zone in the middle between lolis and highschool girls, neither completely here nor there, but depending on the character some feel more like lolis and some feel more like 'school girls', with Megumin being more of a loli to me because she's pretty childish and immature. But as I said, this age group is like a grey zone so how you see a character will be kinda subjective and there is little point in arguing semantically, expecting to come to a definite conclusion in every corner case like Megumin. Just look at her doujins, depending on whether the artstyle is more mature or more childish looking sometimes they get tagged with the loli tag and sometimes they don't. She's right on the border. In my case I just know that Megumin tickles my lolicon senses, so I'm going with that. You actually make a good case for your option and it kind of changed my perspective on the issue. Not much more to say. Also, I'm surprised you're a lolicon, and open about it to boot. It's a really 'hardcore otaku' kind of thing and I seem to remember post you made recently which triggered me no end and made me think you were very much anti-otaku. At least you're a man of principle who doesn't hide who he is. I think there are tons of people who are lolicons or have lolicon tendencies (I'd say I was the latter), but people are afraid to be themselves. I respect someone who doesn't give a fuck and declares who they are poudly, especially when who they are is the product of an attitude that ignores social norms. Kudos. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
YossaRedMage said: Pullman said: Pre-pubescent in features and canon age (your vote) That's what it means at its core, being derived from the term 'lolita'. It is also applied by some people to characters who are simply 'petite', but I see that as just being based on partial similarities, as a sort of reference to the original/core concept, but not because it's identical, but only because of one aspect of the original definition being present in the character. Someone like Shinobu gets called a loli because she looks like one, even tho she technically isn't one. There definitely is a fundamental difference between a prepubescent character in body and mind, and a character that only looks like a child but has a mature mind that stands in contrast to those looks. Pretending they are the same thing doesn't make sense to me when the two have very different appeals and play out very differently, giving scenes a very different tone etc... Using one and the same term for two pretty different types of character robs us of a linguistic option to make that distinction and I don't see what's the upside to that. When I say I like lolis, and people think I mean old characters that look arbitrarily young, that just creates a misunderstanding. That's why to me there will always be a difference between actual 'lolis' where age is an important part of the definitions, and the 'loli bodytype' or the 'loli artstyle' or 'legal lolis' and 'oppai lolis' where it is irrelevant and other aspects are more important to the definition. But I will say that I'm not THAT strict with the age requirement since I think it's fluid to some degree, and while it's technically about prepubescent characters I'm not averse to including middle school-aged characters like Megumin at 14 in the mix (and neither is Nhentai btw). 12-14, the middle school age in Japan/anime is kind of a a transition zone in the middle between lolis and highschool girls, neither completely here nor there, but depending on the character some feel more like lolis and some feel more like 'school girls', with Megumin being more of a loli to me because she's pretty childish and immature. But as I said, this age group is like a grey zone so how you see a character will be kinda subjective and there is little point in arguing semantically, expecting to come to a definite conclusion in every corner case like Megumin. Just look at her doujins, depending on whether the artstyle is more mature or more childish looking sometimes they get tagged with the loli tag and sometimes they don't. She's right on the border. In my case I just know that Megumin tickles my lolicon senses, so I'm going with that. You actually make a good case for your option and it kind of changed my perspective on the issue. Not much more to say. Also, I'm surprised you're a lolicon, and open about it to boot. It's a really 'hardcore otaku' kind of thing and I seem to remember post you made recently which triggered me no end and made me think you were very much anti-otaku. At least you're a man of principle who doesn't hide who he is. I think there are tons of people who are lolicons or have lolicon tendencies (I'd say I was the latter), but people are afraid to be themselves. I respect someone who doesn't give a fuck and declares who they are poudly, especially when who they are is the product of an attitude that ignores social norms. Kudos. I'm both pretty open about not really being into the majority of anime-related stuff that isn't the actual anime series themselves, because I really just see my interest in anime as an extension of my interest in storytelling and animation in general, not much more than that, and about lolis being my ultimate weakness and fetish and one of the things that I love that are unique to anime. That way I manage to get called a traitor by one side and a pedo by the other side, which has no advantages but what am I gonna do? :> You should know tho that I'm not anti-otaku, I just don't relate to that part of the culture at all and I'm allergic to people praising one medium by shitting on another and it doesn't matter in which direction that happens, but since this is an anime forum it happens more frequently in the direction of shitting on western stuff, so you'll more often see me defend that side. But I'll defend anime just as hard when people try to collectively shit on it, especially when it's clear they don't know anything about it and just talk based on prejudices and generalizations. It's all just different sides of the same coin to me and it makes me sad when people completely reject one medium or the other since I love them all so much, and I can probably get pretty salty about that and be an asshole in return, but it all comes from a place of genuine passion for storytelling and animation in general. I also don't like it when people reduce anime to one 'artstyle' instead of acknowledging that it's just animation from Japan, with the beauty being that it can come in as many shapes as forms as there are individual creators with their own, unique styles. I don't dislike the 'standard' anime look, but I'm generally more interested in the variety of styles rather than the standardization. But you probably already know that from some of my other posts. People always say 'this is an anime forum, it's to be expected that a lot of people strongly prefer anime (style) over anything else' and while I find that a bit sad from my holistic perspective they are probably right and ignoring it would be better for my stress levels. But I'm still gonna be me and I'll defend all the things I love when they are attacked or portrayed unfairly, whether it's anime or western animation, TV and Movies. I never replied to that post you mentioned because I felt you were determined to misrepresent my stance as being anti-anime and anti-otaku and I didn't have the energy to fight such an aggresive post at the time, but I hope I was able to explain myself a bit with this post. |
AlcoholicideSep 2, 2019 4:03 PM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I've read Lolita, which is where the term originally comes from. The original loli in the book is a child in age, features, and mind, and that last part is very important. Humbert Humbert, the main character of the book, notes that he is not attracted to girls that do not have this sort of innocent yet teasing, pixie-like aura. By this definition, characters like Shinobu cannot be considered lolis since they are relatively mature in spite of their appearance. Personally I've just used it to describe characters who look like little girls regardless of all other features, which technically isn't the correct way to use the word. |
 What's the difference? |
| A loli (short for lolita) is a small, petite, flat chested, girl that is prepubescent (under 12) or a girl regardless of age who looks like she could be. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| A loli is a baka's plaything. ©Joshikousei no Mudazukai. |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
YossaRedMage said: By "sexualization" I simply mean that people think of a character (or whatever) with some sort of implication that involves sexuality, such as their own. Like, if someone talks about "fapping to lolis" or says "don't lewd the dragon loli", the meaning is pretty obvious.GlennMagusHarvey said: You're missing a certain option. I rarely use the term myself since I personally find it distasteful, and I'm aware that other people use the term for several different meanings, but if I were to use it it'd refer specifically to "little girl who looks prepubescent and is sexualized", since there is (like it or not) definitely some implication of sexualization in the way people use the term, as well as in its etymology. Since the sexualization has to do with appearance, this definition ignores canon age. ...also where is this twitter debate It's not a big thing. I saw a post that called Megumin a loli and then I saw a post with someone else saying she wasn't so I tweeted that she isn't thinking it was a thing, but haven't seen any other tweets about it. My tweet got a response which led in to a debate in DMs. I can get on board with your definition. I'm not a big fan of how the term sexualization is used, but I don't have another word for it so that will do. There is a clear difference between Renge from Non Non Biyori and Shinobu from Monogatari. Even though they are only about 2 years apart (Renge is 7 and Shinobu is physically I think supposed to be 9). But I don't like the idea of sexualizing Renge because her character is so realistically child-like and it doesn't work within the tone of the anime she is from. Shinobu is another matter. Apart from of course mentally being much older, the show itself presents her in a very sexual way and the tone of the show is much less real-life so that kind of taboo fetishistic stuff fits. With Monogatari, one, if they have the capability, can put the real world to the side and indulge in a kind of otherworldly sensual experience that entails girls with extremely exagerrated petite features. For what it's worth, this sexualization may or may not be part of the show or other official work itself. It's not uncommon for a character with an entirely nonsexual official presentation to get sexualized by a subset of fans. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I think a loli is someone who is both a child in looks and body, but is sexualized by the show and the other characters. If the character isn't sexualized at all, then it's just a young child. But if the show does sexualize the character, than that character is a loli. I use this definition because I don't think the little bird girl character from Shield Hero is a loli, because the show doesn't actually sexualize her, and the only character who seems to act like a creepy pedo towards her is Spear Douche (And the show makes it clear he's an unlikable cunt.) The show doesn't go out of its way to give us very odd long shots at her in undress, or any disturbing panty shots that come from seemingly nowhere. She is seen in swim wear, but even that's not shown in a way to sexualize her. They don't have a weird pan up shot of her when she is wearing her swim suit, which I think is great because there's way too many loli's in anime. I don't like the character type, I think it's really creepy, and it takes away from the actual show. If we were to define a loli as any character who looks like a little girl than we'd just be counting all little girls in anime, which isn't right because there's a clear difference between a sexualized cartoon of a little girl, and a cartoon of a normal little girl. |
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| @YossaRedMage Yeah I can totally empathise with what you say. A lot of people who are trying to pass judgment on something they're not familiar with simply don't care about understanding the phenomenon. What makes cartoon in general work is empathy, not physical resemblance to real life. That's why we can treat a talking mouse like a fellow human being, not a deformed two dimensional monster. But people love to pretend attraction to others (sexual or not) involves only recognising physical feature, as if everyone would just get attracted to a lifeless mannequin as long as it looks real enough physically. It's also just as silly to think sexual attraction can be cleanly demarcated from emotional attachment and symbolic meaning, when very often it is precisely emotional and symbolic understanding of a fictional character that motivates sexual attraction. (Why else would anyone find a character in a novel attractive when it offers no picture?) The source of this confusion is partly contributed by the reductive thinking when it comes to male sexuality. We're ready to admit that female sexuality involves emotional and symbolic understanding of the context of a sexual scene, but when it comes to male sexuality, a lot of men themselves would refuse to admit their sexuality involves anything other than raw, biological instinct, because that would be "unmanly". Since most people cannot be bothered to read anything from serious psychological research, this kind of misrepresentation of male sexuality has become the "common sense" among the common people who never even has heard of Freud or care to know. |
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| A loli is a sexualized pre-pubescent or pre-pubescent looking female character. Megumin is definitely sexualized like any other girl in KonoSuba, but she doesn't look particularly young for her age, except, well, for being flat-chested which a lot of teens and adults are. She is 14 if I recall correctly so I don't think the other definition applies. So no, not a loli. |
| Loli is only for real kids. When you are a teenager you are not a loli. You are a teenager. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
--ALEX-- said: You would do well to lookup the term "oppai loli".I mean, for god sakes, Hestia (from DanMachi) is called a loli! And she's got huge tits. |
Polycell said: --ALEX-- said: You would do well to lookup the term "oppai loli".I mean, for god sakes, Hestia (from DanMachi) is called a loli! And she's got huge tits. She’s called a “Loli” for no other reason than she’s got a small body. This exists in real life...it’s called being “Petite”.....plenty of girls (many Asians in fact) are petite and whatnot. The term loli has NO MEANING anymore...it’s used too interchangeable, if you even have to ask “what is a loli” and everyone has a different interpretation, than the word is meaningless! |
| The only way you WON’T be called a “loli” in anime is if you’re tall, got big tits and act mature. Otherwise, it CAN happen. My advice is to just tune it out...they’re all drawings, so it’s fine. BTW...some people have called Momo (view my signature if you don’t know who Momo is) a loli!!! It’s fucking crazy! |
| GODDAMIT i VOTED THE WRONG ONE i MEANT TO SELELCT THIS Pre-pubescent in features only. BCZ THATS TRUE. |
It's best for you not to know.~☆  Have this gif of one instead desu.~☆  |
 サディスティックな考え "JUST KILL ME." サディスティックマインド |
Joking aside, I have no idea anymore. I give up. Opinions are hard. Hope this helps your twitter debate OP. |
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