Why does all Anime fall under heavy-handed cliches?

SaltyScum said:
I disagree, it's impossible to create something completely original because it will always have been done by someone else. Saying anime is devolving is untrue -- just because prior-mentioned shows pioneered certain current tropes, claiming that literally everything is cliched seems a bit far. It doesn't matter if stereotypes are used in my opinion, as long as they bring a certain amount of originality into the mix -- also remember it's significantly harder to create something completely new because of the current established tropes. Trying something completely new also posses a certain risk that I feel creators wouldn't necessarily take, given that they have no guarantee it'll work out.

DesolatePsyche said:
:/ Not really. They still make fair bit of unique and different Anime with more depth to it.

Just the usual product is simplified fun.

I mean I personally love cliches and stereotypes if they are made the way I like. Whilst at the same time I do enjoy series with more flair to them.

So far from my over 10 years of watching Anime. I think every season has something more "unique". It simply that quantity of Anime has risen over time thus we get a lot of more stuff to go through. But goodies remain. (tho westernized and tryhard ""I'm deep"" series I quite dislike.)

Mythologically said:
I've never understood why someone would equate "creative" to "good" and "generic" to "bad".

BlindSniper said:


Could you name two Animes that are unique in terms of characters without me naming off 5 others with the same exact characters/tropes?

If so, thread is done.

romagia said:
i only watch original non-cliche anime like Sushi Police and Bananya

puneetsingh said:
Ravi Shastri
Ravindera Jadeja
Yo Yo Honey Singh
Johncena
Undertaker.

Mythologically said:



If this doesn't imply that generic shows are bad and creativity is good, then I'm the Pope.

BlindSniper said:


Second sentence... might just hotkey it until I find someone with a brain to reply too.

romagia said:
maybe you would enjoy more esoteric works that require high iq like Inferno Cop or Pikotarou no Lullaby

BlindSniper said:


You word for word said "being original is risky and therefore creators don't do it" and disagree.

Everything you said prior is meaningless when you agreed with my sentiment. Cliches aren't the only way to write shows... especially when they're a basic as Anime cliches are. Most are something a 6th grader could come up with.

For instance, I'm the only person in my friend circle who will even give Anime a chance. I've had 2 people watch Steins;Gate and Death Note and they loved it(at least Death Note until episode 26). Told them to check out Boku No Hero or other popular shows nowadays. They didn't make it through 2 episodes... As of now, Anime is directed towards only Anime watchers not people who actually enjoy good writing or characters.

Mythologically said:

C'mon, you're not that dumb, are you? You literally said that the main reason that most Anime is absolute garbage is how basic and formulaic every single plot is and how recycled each character is. Literally, your words, paraphrased. The implication of your post is the general trend of "generic = bad". The OP basically reads, "generic shows are generally shit, but there are some good generic shows". There being good generic shows in no way breaks the general trend that you have presented us with.

SaltyScum said:


I get where you're coming from to a degree, but I feel you're also missing my point -- what I'm trying to say is that creating something completely original (or original to the point of satisfaction) is incredibly harder, because it has already pre-established tropes to deal with, whereas the shows you mentioned didn't have that. It doesn't matter what they try as it will always take part in cliches (same issues can be found in media outside anime). This doesn't completely stop creativity, however, except adapts it into new forms.

SaltyScum said:


I get where you're coming from to a degree, but I feel you're also missing my point -- what I'm trying to say is that creating something completely original (or original to the point of satisfaction) is incredibly harder, because it has already pre-established tropes to deal with, whereas the shows you mentioned didn't have that. It doesn't matter what they try as it will always take part in cliches (same issues can be found in media outside anime). This doesn't completely stop creativity, however, except adapts it into new forms.

BlindSniper said:


When given input on why Anime is shit, make sure to say "u2smart why u no enjoy R+ animes targeted for 12 year olds" looky dat dees bad animes hehehe im so funny

Mythologically said:

Yes, because you are saying that most anime is shit due to generic tropes/cliches, you are saying that generic tropes/cliches make most anime bad. Therefore, you are equating generic to bad, except for the few rare shows that break that trend. I'm so fucking confused lol.




That's what I don't understand. How do generic tropes/cliches make most anime bad? Most anime is good as fuck.

romagia said:
my point being that there is more to anime than the most high rated and memed seasonals; the most original and out-there stuff like Hulaing Babies and Genius Party (or really anything by studio 4c) never reaches the top of the charts, which is all you seem to watch

BlindSniper said:


Could you name two Animes in the last 5 years that are unique in terms of characters without me naming off 5 others with the same exact characters/tropes?

If so, thread is done.

Cause I can name off 100+ movies that are in the past 5 years. Anime is behind.

DesolatePsyche said:


Violet was all things considering rather inner fight complex character. An awkward character that grew over time and learned to express more over time.
Made in abyss had rather great character variety with lot of mystery to unfold.
Mahoutsukai no Yome , even though main character did share some traits similar to other ANime (but what living creature doesn't remind of another creatuer)
Youjo Senki main char I found also rather intriguing and multi layered.
Koe no Katachi had splendid characters.

Those are first ones I could think of on the spot.

Characters have their traits, as do people. Growth, change and underlying thoughts are parts that make characters "complex/deeper" .. no idea what movies you've been watching.., but most movies I've seen I have considered rather shit. But that's because stereotypical choice of characters in western media are loose characters, useless liars, and conflict bringers. ( but well.. i rather hate western culture.. so I only watch movies that are packed with fantasy .. so I only enjoy them for good cg most of the time. "dramas, romances" etc.. I've yet so see anything I would consider "good" "

But eh.. each to their own. Each looks for something different. And I get my fulfilment off Anime. With variety of simple fun, darker fun, emotional runs, unique oddities and so on..

Mythologically said:


I wish I could make opinionated statements and claim them as fact, but unfortunately, I've received a proper education :(. "If you disagree with my shit opinions, don't talk to me, because... uh.. you're dumb 😎". You're acting like a child. Anyway, didn't know the upper half of 20 was that young. Nice.

My favorite part of this whole thing was when you switched your argument from "I didn't equate generic to bad" to "everyone else thinks generic is bad 😎".

BlindSniper said:


As said before, read my first post and understand if before replying to me.

My favorite Anime is Steins;Gate which is one of the most popular Animes out there... it's not "creative" or "out there" - it's just good.

Please just stop replying. Originality does not equate to good, nor does generic = bad. If all you can assume from my posts is that, you don't have the reading comprehension to reply.

BlindSniper said:




Koe no Katachi = agree to some extent but that plot couldn't have been anymore formulaic if it tried, loved it regardless

everything other show you listed, completely disagree and I'm not going to go in-depth... I could write an essay on how many similarities they have to other shows apart from "maho whatever" since I didn't watch it. But reading the synopsis I don't know how you don't think that's identical to countless ones... I guess the top reviews of that show say it all for me.

romagia said:
you are also pretty bad at reading comprehension as i am generally encouraging you to give a try to less popular works outside of the "23 minute TV" format, as that's where a lot of anime that are not "heavy-handed cliches" are
one Cat Soup later and you'll find out you should have watched more Masaki Yuasa

DesolatePsyche said:


well.. same thing I usually feel about most of western movies.
But eh.. I even see certain traits/paths even in people. Thus the go "pretty much the same" category for me

But well.. as told. each to their own. I have enjoyed countless of Anime over 10 years.. and I'm nowhere close of having issues finding new ones to enjoy.
I still find complexity, simplicity, depth etc.. any trait to an extent I want.

I simply disagreed with thread, because I don't have such an issue. Each has their flair, each has their similar/matching traits. But so does everything in the world. It's simply matter of what you don't mind being similar that would keep your joy high enough. Utter depth/originality doesn't exist . Everything is based on something, or taken ideas from somewhere. After that simply comes touch of "own style" thus we get different "product".

Even though lot of Anime is meant to be rather straightforward fun. I find that there are still plenty of those that want to be more dramatic in deeper manner. But those genres/types are meant to build up on characters. And even those are similar so something else.

BlindSniper said:


Could you list 5 of your favorite "western" movies so I can get some kind of relation to what you enjoy... would help a bit more.

Mine:

City of God
Goodfellas
Interstellar
The Pianist
Casino or Memento

TTagain said:
I hate how anime is defined as series of tropes and cliches. Like anime has to BE something within the boundaries of those tropes; like when someone say ''that's so anime''...like wtf do u mean?

Big eyes=anime
running in op=anime
talking while fighting=anime etc

i don't get that....there are so many shows that do not follow these kind of things so why are these cliches used to define anime. That is why to outsiders anime is like colorful-haired kids fighting each other and fanservice and shit.

ok to your point

The thing is saying ''All' anime are like this is wrong. Just because some popular anime make it seem like all anime are like that doesn't mean all anime are like that. simple.

I mean Rakugo shinjo was a fairly recent anime, what was so ''anime'' about that. What is so ''anime'' about ghibli movies. How about land of lustrous or March comes in like a lion.
Sure there are anime that are cliched but then again there are so many that are not.

jal90 said:
I don't understand what are you trying with your OP. You don't appear to be backing up your statements here with an actual will to explore outside the few immediate shows that reach the mainstream, generalize over the tiny fraction of anime you've allegedly watched, and then make some confusing point about how cliches work 0.1% of the time while you not being yourself really harsh in your judgements of anime. To round it off, some talk about how other people swallow garbage that reeks of heavy condescendence if not trollbait.

There is not a good starting point to talk about how harmful tropes are when there isn't even a proper measure to how harmful they are for you. You are just saying they make things garbage and unbearable and yet you don't seem like the type who needs to go very out of his way to find enjoyable anime if your "exceptions" are some of the single most popular and talked about shows in existence.

And yes this is relevant because you are putting a personal input here and we are discussing this personal input, so it's very confusing if it doesn't really look like you are having such a hard time finding stuff you enjoy and like as your OP makes it sound while acting somewhat perplexed at how people can keep finding anime good.

BlindSniper said:


My examples are the "single most popular and talked about shows" because they're actually good. If others shows were worthy of discussing, they'd be known as well. There isn't any "good animes" that are slept on. It's not a surprise they're from the 2000's when Anime actually delved past surface level.

jal90 said:

Uhm, saying that popular stuff is popular because it's good is a cliché in itself, so by your standards this cliché is 99.9% of the times just garbage xD

For that matter, I have seen quite an amount of great anime that are consistently slept on -check my list, really- plus a lot of great anime that just builds more niche appeals than high-octane action/adventure shows. So I don't really think I can empathize with your views on the matter.

BlindSniper said:


I'm saying popular stuff that is rated highly is usually good. Hence why they're rated highly.

When I say highly, NOT on MyAnimeList. This site has Steins;Gate 0 at a 8.57 when it's garbage. Check IMDB or another source that isn't filled with 12 year olds and check rating by age. If a 40+ year old can enjoy Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood - it's probably good and not filled with cliches.

Stop assuming things and we can have a conversation!

BlindSniper said:


Troll in another thread since all you've done is prove my point. Can't you be okay with pooping in the streets rather than my thread? ;)

jal90 said:

In order to have a conversation, you need to properly handle your counterarguments, because these are exactly your words:

"My examples are the "single most popular and talked about shows" because they're actually good. If others shows were worthy of discussing, they'd be known as well."

In your first phrase here, you say: these shows are the most popular because they are good. Therefore fallling straight into the "it's popular because it's good" trope, literally.

In your second phrase, you question that there are worthy shows if they are not known, again conditioning their worth to their popularity. You don't say that every popular show is good, you are just saying that a show can't possibly be good if it is not popular.

So yeah, try again... acting like the victim of constant misunderstandings is a pretty old and nasty tactic to "win" arguments on the internet. Stop doing that and we can have a conversation!

puneetsingh said:
Look man , the thing is , there are so many shows made , it is super hard to make an anime totally different, unless, it is based on another things beyond the japanese people usually do or thought of. My first reply was a fun comment because you are not acknowledging that Japan had made many many things about itself so unless authors start looking for other countries, origins, religions etc. then big change is possible otherwise changes are still happening but as you said they aren't that much.

Every single Anime that exists falls under certain cliches"

I'd say about 0.1% of the time these cliches work."

For instance Steins;Gate, Hunter x Hunter, Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, and Death Note stand out leagues above the rest while also being FILLED with cliches".

They each excel in their category to the point people who DON'T enjoy anime can appreciate what they bring to the table."

This is a really important thing, as Anime in itself has a terrible stereotype surrounding it. It's for good reason, most Anime is absolute garbage"

BlindSniper said:


I didn't reply to you for a reason. No need to post the same shit again.

GlennMagusHarvey said:
Tropes are not inherently bad.

They're only bad when they're not properly justified, either from some in-universe detail or by some other reason in the story design.

Originality has nothing to do with quality.

BlindSniper said:


Your opinion gives a pass for 99.9% of anime in using "tropes" and for that I disagree.

BlindSniper said:


I understand majority of everyone on this website doesn't care about this. But do you see it? And if you do, why do you enjoy cookie-cutter characters and the same ideas over and over?

BlindSniper said:


1). You don't know what "trope" means since... that makes no sense.

2). I'm stating a fact, a good show has a good following even if it didn't at first. Word spreads if it's good, and it becomes a classic. Example: Steins;Gate - it was slept on when it first came out and wasn't popular AT ALL. Even now Steins;Gate only has 1M members, 3 years ago it had like 400K and it's been out for 7+ years now.

If a show/movie is good, it will be known either then or years in the future. You'd have to be an idiot to think otherwise. If you don't agree with this, don't reply.