Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
#1
Jul 1, 2:59 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 10301
It is a sequel series and thus is is not as impressive as fmab which is an entire series that everyone watch and it is still rated 9.24.

Also this topic is not talking about the quality, but instead talking about sequel vs fully adapted series and the advantages of both.

Let me spin that around and show you another perspective, I think that fmab being fully adapted is what made it 9.24, don't get me wrong, not any series can accomplish this task, but the point I am making is that if fmab was split into seasons like snk, it probably would not be rated close to that 9.24 rating. Unless you are telling me if you break apart fmab into seasons each seasons would individually be rated 9.24, which is far from the case, they would probably be rated in the 8 region, maybe the finale would be rated 9.24 though with the sequel effect.

Now if snk was a full adaptation like fmab, I could argue that it would probably get the same treatment fmab is getting, the first 25 episodes of fmab is far from a masterpiece, but because it is completed people had more episode to watch to see its full potential, the same could happen to snk once persons would reach this arc.

This is all hypothetically of course, but I am just pointing out there is advantages of being a fully adapted series over sequel series, if you think about it, perhaps they both even them self out, another example Gintama, people complain about it's sequels and how all of them are rated highly, but imagine if Gintama was a fully adapted series like fmab? Who knows it probably would have been number 1 right now if that was the case.

Imagine if hxh 2011 would be split into seasons as well? Argument is a series having all it's episode in one package can be seen as a advantage over a series being split apart, as I said they probably even them self out with the sequel effect.
Modified by keragamming, Jul 1, 3:10 AM
 
#2
Jul 1, 3:03 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 111
As I said in another thread everybody making it a bigger deal than what it is. There is no real reward in getting #1 position. There is also no such thing as THE best anime because everybody's taste is different. I don't really understand why some fans (in both fmab and aot fandom) take all this so personnal.
 
#3
Jul 1, 3:05 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 10301
blackiemma22 said:
As I said in another thread everybody making it a bigger deal than what it is. There is no real reward in getting #1 position. There is also no such thing as THE best anime because everybody's taste is different. I don't really understand why some fans (in both fmab and aot fandom) take all this so personnal.


People want to see their favorite at the top, it's human nature. But I made this thread for argument purpose, seeing too many of those comments being aim at snk, so I'm just putting another perspective out there that people were not aware of.
 
#4
Jul 1, 3:12 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 71
Ikr , if SnK was full adaption , will get 9.5 score probably :)
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
#5
Jul 1, 3:18 AM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 110
Completely agree. Shows which are fully adapted have a significant edge over sequel based ones IMO albeit it can be difficult to pull off for the producers.
 
#6
Jul 1, 3:27 AM
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 46292
MAL should really implement a franchise grouping already when measuring top ranking
so even Fullmetal Alchemist franchise having a lot of anime titles will also be affected by a decrease in score/ranking due to how averages work

that anime grouping by franchise is actually a planned feature back when DeNA is still the owner but was never implemented so i do not know if that plan will be considered by the new owner of MAL which is MediaDo
 
#7
Jul 1, 3:32 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 10301
deg said:
MAL should really implement a franchise grouping already when measuring top ranking
so even Fullmetal Alchemist franchise having a lot of anime titles will also be affected by a decrease in score/ranking due to how averages work

that anime grouping by franchise is actually a planned feature back when DeNA is still the owner but was never implemented so i do not know if that plan will be considered by the new owner of MAL which is MediaDo


The thing is, that will not be fair towards the sequel series, simple because if they had a weak prequel that will bring the score down, fmab being fully adapted would mean it score stays as how it is.
 
#8
Jul 1, 3:35 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 296
This and the 20% rule. You have to watch 13 episodes for your score to be counted in FMAB's score.

 
#9
Jul 1, 3:42 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 381
I agree, Fmab wouldn't even be close to 9.24 if it was split into 5 seasons like it is on Netflix. The final arc is obviously what got everyone to rate it so highly, me included. Attack on Titan is far more consistent especially with this season which I consider to be the best show of all time.
 
Jul 1, 3:58 AM
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 46292
keragamming said:
deg said:
MAL should really implement a franchise grouping already when measuring top ranking
so even Fullmetal Alchemist franchise having a lot of anime titles will also be affected by a decrease in score/ranking due to how averages work

that anime grouping by franchise is actually a planned feature back when DeNA is still the owner but was never implemented so i do not know if that plan will be considered by the new owner of MAL which is MediaDo


The thing is, that will not be fair towards the sequel series, simple because if they had a weak prequel that will bring the score down, fmab being fully adapted would mean it score stays as how it is.


ye but then anime franchise grouping will be the only score considered in the top ranking list so given that there are lots of fullmetal alchemist related titles then its overall franchise score will drop too

so may the best franchise win! (and not the best anime entry wins)
 
Jul 1, 5:00 AM
Online
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 68
I totally agree with your statements.
 
Jul 1, 5:12 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 309
I get where you're coming from, but it feels like you're using the assumption that all viewers who started FMA:B stayed till the end. I'm sure there are people who disliked it and had dropped the show 1/5th through the series while giving it a really low score.

I think some people find that having a subsequent season as a different entry from its first season helps to "filter" out people who disliked the series; people who'll drop the series anyway regardless it's in full or segregated seasons, thus leaving the "low scorers" back in the first couple of seasons.

Of course, these are just hypothesis. It could be beneficial either way, with probably many unknown variables. But personally, I'm leaning more towards having segregated seasons helps with the scores.

Just to clarify (before people starts attacking me xD), it doesn't really bother me whether which of them holds the first position. I enjoyed both series a lot. Though I may prefer one to the other, to me, it's just another situation where people have different preferences. It's like how I don't go around bugging other series of how and why are their ranking better than my [other] favourite anime heh (and I'll appreciate others not bugging me about it too xD).

And to clarify more, I'm also not arguing, I just enjoy discussions like this, listening to other people's opinions and views hoping that I can change my perspective into a better one (before that favourite "if you don't care why you even here" phrase starts popping out everywhere haha).

Came from this thread after you responded to me from my reply here (quoted for easier reference)
jrShark said:
Cookies said:
Even if AoT S3 P2 holds the top spot, it will never be as impressive as a single, continuous anime being second. The more seasons there is, the less people that dislike the show will be watching and rating it. The people that didn't like season 1 and gave it a 1/10 won't be watching and rating S3 P2 a 1/10

I loved AoT S3 P2 but FMA:B will be more impressive because the score is from all watchers of the show.


Agree. Even if people were to argue that FMA:B is a remake where people who disliked the original series would also not likely to watch another adaptation, I think it still holds more water compared to a sequel season's rating.
 
Jul 1, 5:19 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 19
I don't give a shit about MAL scores, it is about my own enjoyment not what other people think. That's why all these threads are so useless. the fact that fmab currently holds the number one spot on this site does not mean it is the greatest anime ever created.
 
Jul 1, 5:24 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 342
GhettoJaredo said:
I don't give a shit about MAL scores, it is about my own enjoyment not what other people think. That's why all these threads are so useless. the fact that fmab currently holds the number one spot on this site does not mean it is the greatest anime ever created.


Agreed, I wanted to enjoy FMAB to the fullest, but my friends treat it like its some god tier shit, it does what any other anime does, yet for some reason its revered as genius. I dont hate it btw, still had fun with it.
 
Jul 1, 5:56 AM

Online
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 487
If FMA:B got split into Seasons it would be identical to SnK, every build up Season is around 8.5 and the hype fight Season gets the high score, i think a sequel is always superior to a fully adapted series if it only adapts the climax or a big fight of a series, everyone that disliked the first Season jumped off so only the Fans and the people calling it "fine" remain (not everyone that dislikes a series drops it but i think most of them).


Calling the first episodes of FMA:B far from Masterpiece just because its a build up makes 0 sense to me, its the same with SnK just because we have a few more fights the score skyrocketed.

After some time on this site i just started to simply ignore the high or low rating (or try to), and enjoy or spit on a show how i feel like it, i enjoyed both series and dont think either one is the best of all time so i just get my popcorn ready to watch those fandoms clash.

Modified by Mullerio_, Jul 1, 6:16 AM

 
Jul 1, 6:00 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1352
How about if we let's not take MAL rating that serious. I mean I love SnK more than FMA but there's no need to be so obsessed with rating in MAL.
My Wife is a Demon Queen
 
Jul 1, 6:47 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 342
Gorochu said:
How about if we let's not take MAL rating that serious. I mean I love SnK more than FMA but there's no need to be so obsessed with rating in MAL.


This is mainly why im more active on anilist these days, they dont take scores nearly as serious and just enjoy the anime they like there
 
Jul 1, 6:51 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 10301
Weebover9000 said:
Gorochu said:
How about if we let's not take MAL rating that serious. I mean I love SnK more than FMA but there's no need to be so obsessed with rating in MAL.


This is mainly why im more active on anilist these days, they dont take scores nearly as serious and just enjoy the anime they like there


Do people even participate much over there? I visit there and it was a wasteland...
 
Jul 1, 6:52 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1056
If FMA deserves the spot then why doesnt this?
 
Jul 1, 6:54 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 342
keragamming said:
Weebover9000 said:


This is mainly why im more active on anilist these days, they dont take scores nearly as serious and just enjoy the anime they like there


Do people even participate much over there? I visit there and it was a wasteland...


People definitely do participate, its just not nearly as popular as MAL, which I guess would explain why its more civilized.
 
Jul 1, 6:54 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 381
AForgottenSoul said:
If FMA deserves the spot then why doesnt this?
because it's "overrated trash" according to most people I've spoken to, nothing more.
 
Jul 1, 7:07 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 680
@keragamming sry fam, but you're talking bullshit.
It's only that high due to small sample size (=people who were still watching AoT despite mehdiocre S1 and laughably bad S2).

S3 was actually good but it still had several issues (bad cliffhangers, Armin/Reiner plot armor etc). Welp, MAL is mostly for kids, so we can't blame them for bad taste in anime.
 
Jul 1, 7:13 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 342
Kamiyan3991 said:
@keragamming sry fam, but you're talking bullshit.
It's only that high due to small sample size (=people who were still watching AoT despite mehdiocre S1 and laughably bad S2).

S3 was actually good but it still had several issues (bad cliffhangers, Armin/Reiner plot armor etc). Welp, MAL is mostly for kids, so we can't blame them for bad taste in anime.


Bad taste and good taste is all subjective when it comes to anime though, sure there are exceptions to that rule, but I dont think you can put AOTs writing into that exception, also name calling doesnt really help your argument much.
 
Jul 1, 7:40 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1056
Kamiyan3991 said:
@keragamming sry fam, but you're talking bullshit.
It's only that high due to small sample size (=people who were still watching AoT despite mehdiocre S1 and laughably bad S2).

S3 was actually good but it still had several issues (bad cliffhangers, Armin/Reiner plot armor etc). Welp, MAL is mostly for kids, so we can't blame them for bad taste in anime.


On your list you rated season 3 part 2 10/10.. maybe a mistake for you?
 
Jul 1, 8:13 AM
Offline
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 46
i
v_max said:
Completely agree. Shows which are fully adapted have a significant edge over sequel based ones IMO albeit it can be difficult to pull off for the producers.
m pretty happy that they didnt try to ofcourse.I have the joy now to have actually waited for this masterpiece season by season which is way better than just pushing way too many episodes with lesser amount of work put into each episode ;/
 
Jul 1, 9:15 AM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 556
Kamiyan3991 said:
@keragamming sry fam, but you're talking bullshit.
It's only that high due to small sample size (=people who were still watching AoT despite mehdiocre S1 and laughably bad S2).

S3 was actually good but it still had several issues (bad cliffhangers, Armin/Reiner plot armor etc). Welp, MAL is mostly for kids, so we can't blame them for bad taste in anime.

your comment makes you seem like a kid
also im gonna be a kid now: you rating diamond no ace a 10, which is laughably bad , lul.
same for Kaiji, the whole Plot starts with a stupid dude taking a loan with insane interest rates, gg, more moronic than the Spear Hero from the Garbage Hero Anime xD
Then Fullmetal Panic , which is as much garbage as Shield Hero (almost)
And jojo part 1 a 10 really, lul. worst part, not even part 2 can save that score doesn't deserve even an 8. the first 9 eps were worse than garbage hero.
also koe no katachi doesn't deserve more than a score of 1
clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.


i gotta agree with that @keragamming
lets take hxh, i'd give the first two arcs 8s only, the chimera ant Arc was a solid 10
it definitely made it the masterpiece it is overall im rating it a 10 because of the whole adventure

but i rate overarching seasonals the same depending on the highest quality, so to me it doesn't matter, technically i'd give AOT Season 3p1 for example an 8 instead of a 10, but since the overall plot is a 10 i rate it as a 10 as well, i would do the same for hxh
but i guess not everyone rates all seasons according to the overall impression / best parts


You son of a .. turtle

 
Jul 1, 9:59 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 7448
People should really compare apples with oranges, right? Gintama is far superior compared to FMA:B for it showed longevity. SnK with the similar number of chapters/episodes is easier for comparison with FMA:B.

Gintama should be really compared with long running shounen series. By long running, I mean over 99 episodes. Bleach, Naruto, DBZ, FT all fall flat in comparison to Gintama.

FMA:B was actually pretty consistent and I came to love it because of that. Like it has been pointed out, SnK S2 was pretty average for me and hence I dropped it (although I loved S1). If HxH had a split cours, I might have dropped it as well. HxH (2011) fans will never admit it but a huge part of the series is pretty boring. The whole Greed Island has been a 7/10 material. The first half of the Chimera ant arc was also 7/10 material. The final election arc was pretty okayish too. If it weren't for the spider arc or the latter parts of the chimera ant arc, this would be rated much lower. Good luck HxH (2011) fans to ever see a sequel. I hope when it gets one, the one who picks it up is MadJC Staff.

Also, the reason HxH (2011) is rated so high is because MAL is full of angry kids. Take me for an example, lol!

Man, you guys just should take a screenshot at as it sits at 9.23. You may not ever get higher because as I type, accounts are being made! So hurry!
Modified by shanimebib, Jul 1, 10:04 AM
<<<< Click to see how you may #HelpKyoAniHeal

 
Jul 1, 11:42 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 679
Imagine caring about MAL scores. AoT/SnK whatever you prefer calling it has been incredibly overrated for well over half a decade now. The score will probably even out to around an 8.5 over time just like the other seasons.
 
Jul 1, 11:50 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 10301
Red_Ranger_Wien said:
Imagine caring about MAL scores. AoT/SnK whatever you prefer calling it has been incredibly overrated for well over half a decade now. The score will probably even out to around an 8.5 over time just like the other seasons.


None of the previous seasons has ever touch 9, so I doubt it will turn out like the previous seasons, sorry to say.
 
Jul 1, 11:57 AM
Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 77
Bro hoo can't even beat FMA 2003
Get that crap outta here
 
Jul 1, 12:11 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 39
Shingeki no Kyojin (Manga) - 8.52
Fullmetal Alchemist (Manga) - 9.13
 
Jul 1, 12:18 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 484
Why are people so obsessed with the top spot for this season? Lol, I get it, it was ridiculously good and I'm sure the feelings are still lingering. But AoT as far as the anime has been concerned, has been somewhat inconsistent. The first and second season were average or slightly above average, and the first part of season 3 was lame. Just because a 10 episode season well into the anime was really good, why are people obsessed with making it the top spot? Shut up before it drops out the top 10.
 
Jul 1, 12:20 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 10301
AbuelitaDeBatman said:
Shingeki no Kyojin (Manga) - 8.52
Fullmetal Alchemist (Manga) - 9.13


A lot of persons that love the anime adaptation dislike the manga, and that is because they find the art to be "bad" I disagree but that is how a lot of fans feel. So try again.
 
Jul 1, 12:36 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 5505
I still wish MAL wouldn't compartmentalize shows so damn much. It is a little misleading to have one part of one season be split up and ranked as its own thing.


Even still, the ratings are fine as they are. 9.24 for FMA:B as a whole sounds about right - in that there are parts of the show lower than that, and parts that reach higher. The average between everything probably is 9.24 or something similar (yes, FMA:B is that good. suck it haters)

As a whole, SnK has been great - even exceptional at times. However, no one could argue that taken as a whole, it's as good as FMA:B. That's just rridiculous. SnK does something amazing, but Brotherhood does almost everything amazing.
To give just one example: the political drama at the beginning of season 3 and the coup that results in SnK cannot hold a candle to what you get in Brotherhood. It's not that big a deal since it's not really what SnK is about overall, but there's no denying FMA wipes the floor with this show in that department and shows you how SnK does not have anything near the wide range of excellence.
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
Jul 1, 12:36 PM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 342
keragamming said:
AbuelitaDeBatman said:
Shingeki no Kyojin (Manga) - 8.52
Fullmetal Alchemist (Manga) - 9.13


A lot of persons that love the anime adaptation dislike the manga, and that is because they find the art to be "bad" I disagree but that is how a lot of fans feel. So try again.


The art is rather messy, its not until late female titan arc/season 2 (clash of the tiitans) arc that the art starts to majorly improve, currently re-reading and its extremely sloppy art in the beginning. Thats probably the art theyre referring to as "bad", not the recent manga art.
 
Jul 1, 12:41 PM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 422
I think I encountered a similar post but anywho, I believe that SnK season 3.5 has a bit inflated score due to the sequel effect. Not saying that it is bad, it is easily the best part/season actually.

I don't believe that this will beat FMAB, can't tell for the final season tho (personally I feel that FMAB throughout has much more consistency compared to AoT which has many downs like whole season 2 and season 3 pt 1.) What might beat FMAB in the future though: JoJo Pt 7, Gintama: Final Season, 3-gatsu no Lion S3. I hope it is either Gintama or 3-gatsu.
"Life is too bitter, so coffee, atleast should be sweet........ " - Hikigaya Hachiman (Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatte Iru)
 
Jul 1, 12:50 PM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 53
Mickdrew said:

the political drama at the beginning of season 3 and the coup that results in SnK cannot hold a candle to what you get in Brotherhood.


I love how blowhards just say shit like this but never elaborate on it, it's because they can't. They like to assert things that make their position is superior even though they have no idea what they're talking about.

What about FMAB's politics was good? Hey look everybody in the military is actually part of the ebil organization!!! That's some retarded Hydra shit.

cchigu said:
I feel that FMAB throughout has much more consistency compared to AoT which has many downs like whole season 2 and season 3 pt 1.

ELABORATE
 
Jul 1, 12:56 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 10301
Weebover9000 said:
keragamming said:


A lot of persons that love the anime adaptation dislike the manga, and that is because they find the art to be "bad" I disagree but that is how a lot of fans feel. So try again.


The art is rather messy, its not until late female titan arc/season 2 (clash of the tiitans) arc that the art starts to majorly improve, currently re-reading and its extremely sloppy art in the beginning. Thats probably the art theyre referring to as "bad", not the recent manga art.


I see people saying that even in the latest chapter, there argument is that it only looks good on panels that he puts a lot of effort on, but on the regular panels they claim is to be scribbles.

my only guess is these guys only read manga like berserk and vagaband.
 
Jul 1, 1:02 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 5505
Zoroft said:
Mickdrew said:

the political drama at the beginning of season 3 and the coup that results in SnK cannot hold a candle to what you get in Brotherhood.


I love how blowhards just say shit like this but never elaborate on it, it's because they can't. They like to assert things that make their position is superior even though they have no idea what they're talking about.

What about FMAB's politics was good? Hey look everybody in the military is actually part of the ebil organization!!! That's some retarded Hydra shit.

Huh? If you wanted to know you just had to ask; being a prick need not be a factor.

It seems silly having to explain this since it should be obvious, but let's start with pacing. In FMA you get hidden conspiracies in the government and evil plots that are gradually shown and explored over the entire series. Like in SnK, you get people killed off for knowing too much, characters thrown in danger for discovering hidden facilities, and people demoted and monitored by a big brother government.
SnK does have elements of this too, but instead of a series, the pacing is compressed into 2 or 3 episodes. The results are almost comical; The main characters are told "you can't win the government is too powerful", they are attacked mercilessly, and they are forced into hiding away from the public. 2 episodes later, the government is overthrown, public opinion is instantly shifted to their side, and the evil totalitarian government is destroyed in an instant. It should go without saying that is just silly.
If you're going to introduce this, for gods sake don't rush it so much to the point where we're told the government is unstoppable and then are instantly, hilariously easily stopped.

Does this need to be explained? It's like laying out reasons why a rookie loses to Mayweather
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
Jul 1, 1:07 PM

Online
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 38
In the grand scheme of things the MAL rating never mattered to begin with, everyone has different tastes, some may agree, some may disagree, that what makes everyone special in their own little ways.

But the MAL rating is still flawed either way, and I agree with your statement.
 
Jul 1, 1:40 PM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 53
Mickdrew said:
hidden conspiracies
>hidden
>conspiracy

Ok so you also don't know what words actually mean and just throw them out there based on what you feel sounds good. Again I ask how is the equivalent of Hydra shit good political drama? You assert that their are layers but having hidden facilities and people being monitored aren't layers to a supposed political drama, they're on the same surface layer of oh look there's other parts of hydra here too! Then you add in that the opinions of the citizens don't matter at all in fmab and don't get beyond the sophistication of "I hate state alchemists because they are tools for the ebil guberment!"
Mickdrew said:
Like in SnK, you get people killed off

Did you mean FMAB? Where it was like oh this looks like a circle just like an alchemy circle! Plan exposed! Yeah no.

Mickdrew said:
but instead of a series, the pacing is compressed into 2 or 3 episodes. The results are almost comical

I don't think anyone denies that WIT rushed that part, going from chapter 51 to 57 in ONE episode just to please the action junkies. But the politics still had more layers than FMAB, they had to take into account way more complexities such as creating an acceptable narrative for replacing the current regime that people can stomach. Building coalitions across different branches of the military, get the newspaper to report all the things to sway the public. Confirming Historia's as royalty and proving the selfishness of the nobles in charge.
 
Jul 1, 2:07 PM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 342
Mickdrew said:
Zoroft said:


I love how blowhards just say shit like this but never elaborate on it, it's because they can't. They like to assert things that make their position is superior even though they have no idea what they're talking about.

What about FMAB's politics was good? Hey look everybody in the military is actually part of the ebil organization!!! That's some retarded Hydra shit.

Huh? If you wanted to know you just had to ask; being a prick need not be a factor.

It seems silly having to explain this since it should be obvious, but let's start with pacing. In FMA you get hidden conspiracies in the government and evil plots that are gradually shown and explored over the entire series. Like in SnK, you get people killed off for knowing too much, characters thrown in danger for discovering hidden facilities, and people demoted and monitored by a big brother government.
SnK does have elements of this too, but instead of a series, the pacing is compressed into 2 or 3 episodes. The results are almost comical; The main characters are told "you can't win the government is too powerful", they are attacked mercilessly, and they are forced into hiding away from the public. 2 episodes later, the government is overthrown, public opinion is instantly shifted to their side, and the evil totalitarian government is destroyed in an instant. It should go without saying that is just silly.
If you're going to introduce this, for gods sake don't rush it so much to the point where we're told the government is unstoppable and then are instantly, hilariously easily stopped.

Does this need to be explained? It's like laying out reasons why a rookie loses to Mayweather


In the anime its rushed, yes, but in the manga its more fleshed out and is paced better, and not changed drastically to suit the action junkies of the fanbase like its anime counterpart. The anime literally covered like 8 chapters in the first episode of S3 which is horrible fast pacing
 
Jul 1, 2:13 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 5505
Hmm... so it wasn't just an act: you actually are a prick. I see...
Zoroft said:
Mickdrew said:
hidden conspiracies
>hidden
>conspiracy

Ok so you also don't know what words actually mean and just throw them out there based on what you feel sounds good.

Feeling good about how hidden conspiracies sound? What are you even saying.

How tf is this not a hidden conspiracy? It is a plot held in secret to reach a hidden goal.
Also, why are you mentioning Hydra so much? Read the plot points I put in those spoiler tags: does that sound like Hydra from the Marvel comics? What a ridiculous comparison to make. It's like saying 1984 is "jus another hydra story again lolz"

Zoroft said:

Did you mean FMAB? Where it was like oh this looks like a circle just like an alchemy circle! Plan exposed! Yeah no.

What do you mean "Yeah no"? Are you saying it was a dumb way for the plan to be revealed?


Zoroft said:

I don't think anyone denies that WIT rushed that part, going from chapter 51 to 57 in ONE episode just to please the action junkies. But the politics still had more layers than FMAB, they had to take into account way more complexities such as creating an acceptable narrative for replacing the current regime that people can stomach. Building coalitions across different branches of the military, get the newspaper to report all the things to sway the public. Confirming Historia's as royalty and proving the selfishness of the nobles in charge.


Well, unfortunately, we're talking about the anime and the score it received - so it doesn't matter how well it was done in the manga. If there is much better pacing in the manga then that's good for them.
Maybe that's why you're much more generous about evaluating the anime because many of these "layers" are hardly touched upon in what we got. Creating narratives for the public, building military alliances, all those are solved quickly and effortlessly. The entire problem with public opinion is solved instantly by saying "we have the newspaper printing this."
Not to mention these were all issues that were likewise dealt with in FMA too. They also used the press to send out their story and the entire series was centered around building the alliances necessary to overthrow the government.

Look buddy, I do not envy you in having to explain why 3 episodes have more layers than a 64 episode series, but this is just sad. If you're going to reply, please take your time and put more thought into your response or I will not see any point in even replying anymore.
Modified by Mickdrew, Jul 1, 2:16 PM
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
Jul 1, 2:14 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 209
zzz is it even gonna reach top spot even if it's temporary. been stuck at 9.23
no
 
Jul 1, 2:44 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 680
cchigu said:
Gintama: Final Season

Gintama went to the dogs, so nope.
"Farewell, Shinsengumi" was the last good arc.
 
Jul 1, 3:12 PM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 53
Mickdrew said:
Feeling good about how hidden conspiracies sound? What are you even saying.

"Hidden conspiracy" is a nonsense statement, there can be a hidden agenda/plan but conspiracy does not mean PLAN like you seem to think it does. Don't blame others for being a prick just for calling you out on talking nonsense, a person should be be accountable for being properly coherent when communicating. Not to mention you started the condescending tone yourself with the whole "AoT on the same level is my show, don't be silly!" while simultaneous supporting it with little evidence and a lot of nonsense assertions.

Mickdrew said:
Also, why are you mentioning Hydra so much?


I'm making reference to that because I find they both share a similar level of sillyness as far as political nuance goes, where it's simply "oh no every level of the gov't has been infiltrated by 1d bad guys. We mus fight back by attacking them directly!" It's about as nuanced as our group of clear good guys vs. this group of clear bad guys.

Mickdrew said:
That was not a stupid reveal


Just because something makes sense doesn't make it not dumb. The whole thing was so on the nose and cheesy for the big bad plan of the villain. WHAT... IF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY WAS ACTUALLY AN ALCHEMY CIRCLE AND THE VILLAIN IS PLANNING TO KILL EVERYBODY!! This was also something that was already very obvious from episode 1.

Mickdrew said:
And the plot wasn't revealed at all.


What? Yes it was turning the entire country into a alchemist circle was the main plot, that's what the final showdown was all about to prevent that. You're not making any sense even if you assert that you do.

Mickdrew said:
all those are solved quickly and effortlessly. The entire problem with public opinion is solved instantly

Why are your posts so redundant? So you wanted them to drag things out artificially for the sake of "feeling it" more? Like your posts?

Mickdrew said:
because many of these "layers" are hardly touched upon in what we got.
They also used the press to send out their story and the entire series was centered around building the alliances necessary to overthrow the government.


You asserted these two things without citing any evidence whatsoever. At least AoT takes public opinion into account and gives them a voice, there are plenty of scenes where the opinions of the citizens is expressed and addressed including Nile who played a big part as he the leader of the MPs sided with the coup because his family is from the outer walls, something that was set up by Erwin earlier when he asked how his wife and kids are doing. The citizens were also skeptical of the new regime, but were smoothed over by the narrative of Historia being the true royal and the former king being a fake, but it wasn't all in one go like you repeatedly claim. Historia had to go out and kill the turky titan as an achievement because she knew the citizens wouldn't just accept her as is.

Mickdrew said:
you in having to explain why 3 episodes have more layers than a 64 episode series


What a nonsense argument, asserting quantity=depth. Jin-roh is a 90 minute feature film not including credits yet it is far more politically complex than FMAB. You keep making false assumptions to make these assertions but they simply do prove true when you think about it for 2 secs in any way.

Mickdrew said:
but this is just sad

Again trying to assert a false sense of superiority even though your posts are full of poor use of words, incoherent logic and vague statements.
Modified by Zoroft, Jul 1, 3:41 PM
 
Jul 1, 3:26 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 209
Zoroft said:
Roronoa said:
Feeling good about how hidden conspiracies sound? What are you even saying.

"Hidden conspiracy" is a nonsense statement, there can be a hidden agenda/plan but conspiracy does not mean PLAN like you seem to think it does. Don't blame others for being a prick just for calling you out on talking nonsense, a person should be be accountable for being properly coherent when communicating. Not to mention you started the condescending tone yourself with the whole "AoT on the same level is my show, don't be silly!" while simultaneous supporting it with little evidence and a lot of nonsense assertions.

Roronoa said:
Also, why are you mentioning Hydra so much?


I'm making reference to that because I find they both share a similar level of sillyness as far as political nuance goes, where it's simply "oh no every level of the gov't has been infiltrated by 1d bad guys. We mus fight back by attacking them directly!" It's about as nuanced as our group of clear good guys vs. this group of clear bad guys.

Roronoa said:
That was not a stupid reveal


Just because something makes sense doesn't make it not dumb. The whole thing was so on the nose and cheesy for the big bad plan of the villain. WHAT... IF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY WAS ACTUALLY AN ALCHEMY CIRCLE AND THE VILLAIN IS PLANNING TO KILL EVERYBODY!! This was also something that was already very obvious from episode 1.

Roronoa said:
And the plot wasn't revealed at all.


What? Yes it was turning the entire country into a alchemist circle was the main plot, that's what the final showdown was all about to prevent that. You're not making any sense even if you assert that you do.

Roronoa said:
all those are solved quickly and effortlessly. The entire problem with public opinion is solved instantly

Why are your posts so redundant? So you wanted them to drag things out artificially for the sake of "feeling it" more? Like your posts?

Roronoa said:
because many of these "layers" are hardly touched upon in what we got.
They also used the press to send out their story and the entire series was centered around building the alliances necessary to overthrow the government.


You asserted these two things without citing any evidence whatsoever. At least AoT takes public opinion into account and gives them a voice, there are plenty of scenes where the opinions of the citizens is expressed and addressed including Nile who played a big part as he the leader of the MPs sided with the coup because his family is from the outer walls, something that was set up by Erwin earlier when he asked how his wife and kids are doing. The citizens were also skeptical of the new regime, but were smoothed over by the narrative of Historia being the true royal and the former king being a fake, but it wasn't all in one go like you repeatedly claim. Historia had to go out and kill the turky titan as an achievement because she knew the citizens wouldn't just accept her as is.

Roronoa said:
you in having to explain why 3 episodes have more layers than a 64 episode series


What a nonsense argument, asserting quantity=depth. Jin-roh is a 90 minute feature film not including credits yet it is far more politically complex than FMAB. You keep making false assumptions to make these assertions but they simply do prove true when you think about it for 2 secs in any way.

Roronoa said:
but this is just sad

Again trying to assert a false sense of superiority even though your posts are full of poor use of words, incoherent logic and vague statements.


I NEVER SAID ANY OF THIS what did you do
no
 
Jul 1, 3:42 PM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 53
@Roronoa

I'm bad with names ok buddy?
 
Jul 1, 6:22 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 5505
Zoroft said:

"Hidden conspiracy" is a nonsense statement, there can be a hidden agenda/plan but conspiracy does not mean PLAN like you seem to think it does. Don't blame others for being a prick just for calling you out on talking nonsense, a person should be be accountable for being properly coherent when communicating. Not to mention you started the condescending tone yourself with the whole "AoT on the same level is my show, don't be silly!" while simultaneous supporting it with little evidence and a lot of nonsense assertions.

Okay, here we go:

1. Conspiracy has more than one definition - one of them does mean a plan. This is not even a difficult thing to check. Read a dictionary.
2. Be a prick or don't. I'm not the one who has to live with you so I don't care. Good luck to those that do.
3. Giving my opinion that one show is better than another is not being condescending. Are you seriously accusing me of being incoherent spouting this crap?
4. I've given examples and reasons for every complaint I've made. You don't even take the time to read them, then say I don't give any.

Zoroft said:

I'm making reference to that because I find they both share a similar level of sillyness as far as political nuance goes, where it's simply "oh no every level of the gov't has been infiltrated by 1d bad guys. We mus fight back by attacking them directly!" It's about as nuanced as our group of clear good guys vs. this group of clear bad guys.

Fullmetal Alchemist does a lot well - ambiguous morality for the villains is not one of them.
So if that's what you're looking for, you won't find it. The bad guys are the 7 deadly sins. In other words, not redeemable. Only an idiot brings in their own arbitrary expectations and then complains when the show is does not address them.
"You know, I expected SnK to explore the complexities of love, but they haven't. Relationships between the main characters are so two dimensional! Therefore, it is shit."
See how dumb this is? If you want ambiguous morality, go find a show that has it. Not to say there is no ambiguous morality in FMA outside of the main villains, though. The Ishval Civil War and the many massacres done by the main characters are the best examples.

Zoroft said:
Just because something makes sense doesn't make it not dumb. The whole thing was so on the nose and cheesy for the big bad plan of the villain. WHAT... IF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY WAS ACTUALLY AN ALCHEMY CIRCLE AND THE VILLAIN IS PLANNING TO KILL EVERYBODY!! This was also something that was already very obvious from episode 1.

The plan is not what makes a good villain; the motivations are. When you look into the motivations and backstory of the Eye of God and Truth, you see it's nowhere near as simple as "bad man makes big circle" - that is a terrible misrepresentation.

Zoroft said:

What? Yes it was turning the entire country into a alchemist circle was the main plot, that's what the final showdown was all about to prevent that. You're not making any sense even if you assert that you do.

Again, no. Hughes saw what was being made but he did not know the following:
-Who is doing this
-Why are they doing this
-When will they do this
-What will actually happen if they try this

So no, he does not know the plan. He stumbled on a very suggestive clue about the significance of recent conflicts.

Zoroft said:
Why are your posts so redundant? So you wanted them to drag things out artificially for the sake of "feeling it" more? Like your posts?

And then you accuse me of making baseless assertions. You did not even address the point I was making there. Incredible.
Just add "psychology" to the long list of things you don't know enough to comment on.

Zoroft said:

You asserted these two things without citing any evidence whatsoever. At least AoT takes public opinion into account and gives them a voice, there are plenty of scenes where the opinions of the citizens is expressed and addressed including Nile who played a big part as he the leader of the MPs sided with the coup because his family is from the outer walls, something that was set up by Erwin earlier when he asked how his wife and kids are doing. The citizens were also skeptical of the new regime, but were smoothed over by the narrative of Historia being the true royal and the former king being a fake, but it wasn't all in one go like you repeatedly claim. Historia had to go out and kill the turky titan as an achievement because she knew the citizens wouldn't just accept her as is.

Yes, she did kill the titan so the people would accept her, that is true. However, everything you were saying about the people being skeptical of the new regime just baffles me. Where in the anime exactly did they show that the public opinion was so unsteady and something needed to be done? This was something we were told was happening, and it was solved right afterwards. It was brought up just to be fixed. If Historia didn't kill the titan, if they didn't spend time figuring out this narrative to make it more digestible and just said "we took over", I would've never expected the public had any problems at all. We don't actually see anything.
Zoroft said:

What a nonsense argument, asserting quantity=depth. Jin-roh is a 90 minute feature film not including credits yet it is far more politically complex than FMAB. You keep making false assumptions to make these assertions but they simply do prove true when you think about it for 2 secs in any way.

No, I am just stating the obvious. Please try to understand this part at the very least:
There are specific ideas or messages that can be communicated well in a short amount of time- I have not seen Jin-roh, but that could be what happened there.

There are, however, other things that *cannot* be communicated in a short amount of time - or at the very least, you don't gain the same level of understanding because so much is skipped over. In this instance we are watching two shows that are trying to establish:
- A tyrannical government
- Persecution under said government
- The personal will to triumph above adversity
- Win over the hearts and minds of the public
- Overturn a corrupt system and make a more just society

Now, it does not matter how well written or incredible a script is, you need time to properly establish the setting, develop the parties relevant, and have it all mean something when they win and the audience gets their payoff. In the end SnK, essentially tries to depict the setting and the proceedings of a revolution in just 3 episodes. They don't do a bad job, but you are here trying to argue that an hour or so of that has more layers than 60+ episodes dedicated towards accomplishing this? Are you insane? Do you know how massive revolutions are? They have been millions of words written about the thousands of factors that play into revolutions throughout history. You think 3 anime episodes are enough to adequately take us through the entire process? I do not think that is possible unless you have the most talentless hack working against the most intelligent political thinker of all time - and that is certainly not the match up we get with SnK and FMA.

Zoroft said:

Again trying to assert a false sense of superiority even though your posts are full of poor use of words, incoherent logic and vague statements.

No mate, it just is what it is. Rationalize it however you want, but I'm telling you my sincere thoughts on this.
At the very least I hope you understand what I am saying, and I do not have the patience to spell it out for you any longer. I'm done with this silly argument

Roronoa said:

I NEVER SAID ANY OF THIS what did you do

lmao xD
Modified by Mickdrew, Jul 1, 6:30 PM
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
Jul 1, 7:20 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1056
Not as impressive as FMAB in your opinion.. to me this season had more emotion and impact then the whole of FMAB.
 
Top
Pages (5) [1] 2 3 » ... Last »

Preview MangaManga Store