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Feb 6, 11:32 AM

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Demyx_IX said:
That's fair, and it really depends on the pace that they go for, as there's a bit of development to go through. If you don't mind reading a cliff notes summary of what /should/ be covered in the next three-ish episodes, just say the word.

I'll take your word for it that it improves again, complaints aside the series was at least watchable up to this point.
 
Feb 6, 11:44 AM

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I absolutely love the "criticisms" this show is receiving from people. Most of them are purely opinion based over exaggerations. It's incredibly funny to watch.
 
Feb 6, 12:02 PM

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Jak said:
I absolutely love the "criticisms" this show is receiving from people. Most of them are purely opinion based over exaggerations. It's incredibly funny to watch.


That's mal for u

.....................................
 
Feb 6, 12:51 PM

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Jak said:
I absolutely love the "criticisms" this show is receiving from people. Most of them are purely opinion based over exaggerations. It's incredibly funny to watch.

Oh look, the wannabe aloof edgelord who pretends to find everything funny when he's secretly triggering harder than anyone.

Private anime list as well, nicely done.
 
Feb 6, 12:58 PM

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Episode 5 in a nutshell

 
Feb 6, 1:31 PM

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This thread still isn't locked?
 
Feb 6, 2:40 PM
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TsukuyomiREKT said:
This thread still isn't locked?

I don't know why it's still running, threads has been locked and even deleted for way less. It's been straight up cancer and totally useless since the first post (the creation of it) and there's almost 500 comments in it and we're yet to find a damn reason to why it even exist in the first place. I guess they think that by writing passive-aggressive essays of their opinion on the matter, they think their opinion matter when it really doesn't because 1 : they are not known and respected reviewers of MAL and 2 : they lack the skills to be known and respected reviewers of MAL. This is just some middle school students intellect picking on each other thinking they are like Stark700 or ZephSilver when nobody even cares in the first place.
 
Feb 6, 2:44 PM

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Kamiyan3991 said:
Episode 5 in a nutshell



You're not wrong.
 
Feb 6, 5:54 PM

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Kamiyan3991 said:
Episode 5 in a nutshell



I see no problem with that though lmao.
 
Feb 6, 8:25 PM
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[quote=Kamiyan3991 message=56886424]
Hunter_Garou said:
Kamiyan3991 said:

For example...? Where?


Really? It looked pretty bad to me so I dropped S1 at episode 6 or smth.
Also, I don't get that "elitism" thing or whatever. I do think that Overlord does seem bad for mature (20+) audience. That's all there is to it.
Oh you are one of those people who know nothing about Overlord, sorry got nothing to say to you. You can relish in that ignorance. Since you didn't finish the series you don't know shit about it and I don't really need to defend the series to you since it has really high ratings and it was the best sold LN last year, so it pretty much stands on its own.

Well, I obvi. didn't finish the series, since it was pretty dull. So, I know it was dull. So, I actually know something about Overlord. Checkmate.

But Overlord is not dull so your comment definitely proves you know absolutely nothing about Overlord. Okay, simple question, what's the main theme of Overlord since you claim to know something about Overlord (that is like a level 1 question) or even easier which kind of spells are Ainz's favourite to use in battle? If you can't answer at least one of this questions, you know nothing about Overlord. So happily claiming Checkmate loool xD.
 
Feb 6, 8:31 PM
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SSL443 said:
Hunter_Garou said:
Oh you are one of those people who know nothing about Overlord, sorry got nothing to say to you. You can relish in that ignorance. Since you didn't finish the series you don't know shit about it and I don't really need to defend the series to you since it has really high ratings and it was the best sold LN last year, so it pretty much stands on its own.

I finished Overlord and it's pretty bad.

Kamiyan3991 said:

Uhh, but this actually is the worst writing I've seen in a while.
RTFM.

Well, I won't say you're wrong. Maybe I've just seen some worse shows than you have recently.

Edit: nevermind, started watching episode 5... youch.
Overlord isn't bad, it's a well written series with great lore.
 
Feb 6, 8:45 PM

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Grimzey said:
TsukuyomiREKT said:
This thread still isn't locked?

I don't know why it's still running, threads has been locked and even deleted for way less. It's been straight up cancer and totally useless since the first post (the creation of it) and there's almost 500 comments in it and we're yet to find a damn reason to why it even exist in the first place. I guess they think that by writing passive-aggressive essays of their opinion on the matter, they think their opinion matter when it really doesn't because 1 : they are not known and respected reviewers of MAL and 2 : they lack the skills to be known and respected reviewers of MAL. This is just some middle school students intellect picking on each other thinking they are like Stark700 or ZephSilver when nobody even cares in the first place.


Ikr. The enforcement of rules on this site is so inconsistent. Sometimes a bait thread like this will get locked/deleted immediately, and sometimes it'll stay up for a week or more without a single mod doing anything or even giving a warning. I know there isn't many people on the team, and managing a site as big as MAL is obviously going to be challenging. But when a thread gets made that is so blatantly troll garbage, it shouldn't stay up for this long. Like, how is it possible to miss this?
 
Feb 6, 9:06 PM

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TsukuyomiREKT said:
Grimzey said:

I don't know why it's still running, threads has been locked and even deleted for way less. It's been straight up cancer and totally useless since the first post (the creation of it) and there's almost 500 comments in it and we're yet to find a damn reason to why it even exist in the first place. I guess they think that by writing passive-aggressive essays of their opinion on the matter, they think their opinion matter when it really doesn't because 1 : they are not known and respected reviewers of MAL and 2 : they lack the skills to be known and respected reviewers of MAL. This is just some middle school students intellect picking on each other thinking they are like Stark700 or ZephSilver when nobody even cares in the first place.


Ikr. The enforcement of rules on this site is so inconsistent. Sometimes a bait thread like this will get locked/deleted immediately, and sometimes it'll stay up for a week or more without a single mod doing anything or even giving a warning. I know there isn't many people on the team, and managing a site as big as MAL is obviously going to be challenging. But when a thread gets made that is so blatantly troll garbage, it shouldn't stay up for this long. Like, how is it possible to miss this?

You answered your own question, the mods have better things to do. That's why the ignore thread function exists.
 
Feb 6, 9:42 PM
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SSL443 said:
TsukuyomiREKT said:


Ikr. The enforcement of rules on this site is so inconsistent. Sometimes a bait thread like this will get locked/deleted immediately, and sometimes it'll stay up for a week or more without a single mod doing anything or even giving a warning. I know there isn't many people on the team, and managing a site as big as MAL is obviously going to be challenging. But when a thread gets made that is so blatantly troll garbage, it shouldn't stay up for this long. Like, how is it possible to miss this?

You answered your own question, the mods have better things to do. That's why the ignore thread function exists.

Yeah you're right I guess. Tbh it's my fault even coming here in the first place expecting great criticisms when it actually just some r/iamverysmart passive-aggressive 14 years old bickering over something that no one cares. Maybe in some future threads, I guess.
 
Feb 6, 10:50 PM
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SSL443 said:
That's prefectly fine, I acknowledge that you have an opinion. But this doesn't really address the issue of pacing. As I said, the series don't necessarilly need more scenes, it's more how they fit together and into the context of the story.

There is no issue of pacing though? I mean you are saying it like it is objectively there and use 'but it is just your opinion" against me claiming otherwise, but what exactly is preventing me from calling your position "just opinion" as well?

If you are claiming that TateYusha is objectively bad, you're gonna have to do a better job establishing the objective reality than you did so far. I will grant you that the show is going fast, but you haven't established why going fast is bad beyond what appears to be a principled stance against going fast in general.

That's an incredibly narrow requirement that really has nothing to do with my point. I don't care how quickly Raphtalia "levels up" or develops physically as long as her characterization and her relationship with Naofumi develop in a believable and geniuine way. Excusing bad writing with in-world fantasy mechanics is asspull.

She does develop in a belieavable way, though? I mean, you haven't made any point as to what specifically is unbelievable aside from length of time committed to it. As a result, your own point becomes very narrow.
Again, if you want your point to be viewed wider, you'll need to find a way to express it in wider terms.

More reasonably, anime that have elements either of children growing up, development of a character, or their relationship with another character, might include The Tale of Princess Kaguya, Ponyo, Claymore, NGE, with varying levels of success.

Ponyo is an invalid example because it doesn't feature kids growing up. It just features kids. NGE is a an invalid example because, while it sorta features kids growing up, it does so not over the couse of 30 minutes of screentime, but over the entire series.

Claymore is a closer example. because, while the male character in question does grow up over the course of a series, his screentime is not really all that significant and could feasibly be condensed to a pair of epsiodes. However, i then have to question what exactly is done in, say, first 30 minutes of his screentime that makes his relationship with the protagonist more believable than that of Raftalia with Naofumi. I don't exactly recall it having anything much more impactful or different, or even in the way of "cover the ground and take it in".

Frankly, writing of the level needed to deal with this kind of situation is somewhat rare in fiction, let alone anime. Why? Because handling a character that has been traumatized to this degree requires knowledge, care, and skill.

All of which TY exhibits (at least as far as first ark is concerned). And if you think it doesn't exhibit it, then you're gonna have to be specific about what specifically is treated with insufficient knowledge, care or skill. I won't just accept a blanket judgement on this.

I will watch princess Kaguya and get back to you on that. Being a full length movie, this might actually be a closer example than others.

Sure. Fortunately that has nothing to do with what I said.

You haven't really established the specifics of what it has to do beyond that, though.

-------------
OG_Gattsu said:
Not filling out a profile because you’re insecure of being judged isn’t the right mentality to have... We’re all judged on a daily basis. Add whatever you like, but make sure to own it.

It is not about being judged. It is about being judged on anything but the content of my posts. Maybe i'll fill out a profile when/if a more permanent presence will be required (and that's a rather big if).

OG_Gattsu said:
Elitist is a shitty buzzword for weebs to use when someone points out your bad taste in anime.

For me, the word elitist is rather firmly associated with the "elitist jerks" guild forum, where you either had the theorycraft to back your stupid opinions, or you gtfo'd. That's the one thing about elitism that appeals to me.

Overlord is a pointless story following evil wizard Kirito and his giant harem enslaving/killing everyone who opposes them like they’re squashing ants. It’s like watching a otaku playing with cheat mode on with all the bullshit spells he has. There’s no semblance of stakes or tension involved when you know wizard Kirito could take over the world in a week. Popularity =/= quality

On a technical level, Ainz and Kirito are actually completely different characters. Kirito wouldn't be able to manage underlings even if it killed him.

On a more interesting level, to really appreciate the fundamentals of Overlord, you need to come from a cultural background that has a tradition of appreciation for immortal undead overlords. My cultural background features a folk villain Kashei the Immortal, which is a rather nuanced fairytale character (bordering on archetype), onto which Ainz Ool Gown easily projects. As such, the story of Overlord becomes not just an otaku wish fulfillment fantasy, but rather an expansion upon the existing cultural archetype, as well as a treatise on ideas pertaining to said archetype (how being immortal and overpowered relates to being human). More specifically, Overlord also jives well with the notions of posthumanism that are somewhat popular in circles i frequent (occasionally popular to hate on, but popular nonetheless).

Dismissing anything that features an OP character with a harem is not an altogether bad filter. However, you seem to be in the position where you never even really questioned what drives these ideas and why they are popular in the first place.

That being said, Overlord is definitely nowhere near the best isekai. At least, not in the currently existing anime adaptation. It has a ton of issues with both visual design and character development that are beyond questionable.

You finding Black Clover the most entertaining in shounen is subjective. Besides, don’t act like the current arc is any good. It’s fight after fight against one dimensional, revenge fuelled elves with no personality being rehashed 😂

Black Clover is not awesome, it’s a generic shounen with no originality. It’s Naruto x Fairy Tail but worse than both of them.

I'm slowly warming up to BC, but it is certainly taking a while to pull off that one shounen ark that blows everything out of the water with sheer hype. Then again, FT couldn't really get started until Phantom Lord ark, which is a similar amount of episodes in. Naruto, on another hand, was already strong in Zabuza ark.
Modified by malMaxi, Feb 6, 11:02 PM
 
Feb 6, 10:53 PM

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Why are these kinds of forums always popping up for seasonals that have only released 1-3 episodes so far?
 
Feb 6, 11:01 PM
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Demyx_IX said:
Yeah, the start to book 2, which is where episode 5 is at, is one of my least favorite sections, and in all honesty book 2 is my least favorite, outside of revealing different plot points, a few fights, and wave 3 happening.

Get ready for Naofumi's tour as traveling merchant and fixing the other 3 heroes' fuck ups!

I must say everything between Firo being born and the gang meeting the Queen (not that one, the other one) is a bit of a blur. So maybe book 2 was indeed bad.
Then again, the adaptation has so far proven surprisingly adept at cutting away the unnecessary parts. I don't dislike the way they handled Firo getting a human form, for example :D
Modified by malMaxi, Feb 6, 11:05 PM
 
Feb 6, 11:57 PM

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SSL443 said:
You answered your own question, the mods have better things to do. That's why the ignore thread function exists.

There's nothing wrong with this thread rules-wise though.
They don't want "score" threads but this one is actually not about the score.
Some fanboys butthurt about it but nobody force them to read this.
 
Feb 7, 1:11 AM

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malMaxi said:

There is no issue of pacing though? I mean you are saying it like it is objectively there and use 'but it is just your opinion" against me claiming otherwise, but what exactly is preventing me from calling your position "just opinion" as well?

Of course it's all my opinion. My opinion, just based on books I've read and movies I've watched (including anime).You're obviously welcome to accept or reject it. Ultimately any discussion can be reduced down to a basic question like "what is art". Subjective, but that hasn't stopped critical consensus from emerging.

malMaxi said:

If you are claiming that TateYusha is objectively bad, you're gonna have to do a better job establishing the objective reality than you did so far. I will grant you that the show is going fast, but you haven't established why going fast is bad beyond what appears to be a principled stance against going fast in general.

I'm not even against fast pacing, an anime like One Punch Man that is incredibly fast paced works pretty well. Context is key and it depends on the content of the story. Certain subjects just work better with slower pacing, either because it is more realistic or because it makes it easier to absorb the material.

malMaxi said:

She does develop in a belieavable way, though? I mean, you haven't made any point as to what specifically is unbelievable aside from length of time committed to it. As a result, your own point becomes very narrow.
Again, if you want your point to be viewed wider, you'll need to find a way to express it in wider terms.

People with trauma take time to heal; it doesn't happen in a week. Forming relationships and building trust can be difficult in the aftermath of trauma or abuse as well. I don't keep newspaper articles bookmarked, so if you want medical journal citations I'll have to disappoint. Bottom line, the story just doesn't treat this subject with the gravity or realism it deserves.

malMaxi said:

Ponyo is an invalid example because it doesn't feature kids growing up. It just features kids.

Ponyo grows from a tadpole sort of creature into a young girl at a very rapid pace. It's probably the closest analog of any of the examples I have; she also develops a close bond with the MC.

malMaxi said:

NGE is a an invalid example because, while it sorta features kids growing up, it does so not over the couse of 30 minutes of screentime, but over the entire series.

That's... kind of the point. Lost of character stuff, growing up, not squeezed into a single episode.

malMaxi said:

Claymore is a closer example. because, while the male character in question does grow up over the course of a series, his screentime is not really all that significant and could feasibly be condensed to a pair of epsiodes. However, i then have to question what exactly is done in, say, first 30 minutes of his screentime that makes his relationship with the protagonist more believable than that of Raftalia with Naofumi. I don't exactly recall it having anything much more impactful or different, or even in the way of "cover the ground and take it in".

His relationship with her develops over several episodes, most notably the first four. There is also the sequence the covers the young Claire and Teresa, which also takes several episodes. It's not all crammed together, whether it would fit into a single episode or not.

malMaxi said:

All of which TY exhibits (at least as far as first ark is concerned). And if you think it doesn't exhibit it, then you're gonna have to be specific about what specifically is treated with insufficient knowledge, care or skill. I won't just accept a blanket judgement on this.

Okay, then I doubt you'll accept it regardless.

We are both familiar with the story, I've made my claims and you haven't accepted them. I think you need to stop and ask exactly what you want to get out of this discussion; if you just want to pin me down by making me dissect the minutia of the plot complete with formal references, and invalidate my argument if I can't do it, then there isn't any point in prolonging this.

If we're not at least somewhat on the same page with regards to how a character with a background like Raphtalia should be handled, I don't think anything I outline will be able to bridge the divide. Shield Hero is obviously a casual fantasy story meant to be enjoyed as such; and that's perfectly fine. But when it starts to stray into more serious material, the quality of the writing is put to the test in terms of how much depth and nuance it can muster when handling these subjects.

We have slavery; we know that Raphtalia watched her parents die; that she was captured by slavers; and that she was tortured by at least one former master. The story takes full advantage of the emotional impact of this backstory. But as soon as that purpose is fulfilled, it dispenses with them in favor of hurrying the plot along. Raphtalia is suddenly bold and assertive after only a week. Hell, in the episode that just aired she goes back to the same slaver that kept her chained in a cage to happily get the slave seal reapplied. Where is her resolve to protect children from a fate like her own? Isn't this slaver somewhat responsible for that? At the very least he treated her as subhuman.

Point being, Raphtalia's character just isn't handled in a way that I can call believable. I don't really know how to argue that sensitive subjects need to be handled with nuance. To me, that's a point required to reach common ground in this discussion.
Modified by SSL443, Feb 7, 1:38 AM
 
Feb 7, 1:38 AM

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Kamiyan3991 said:
SSL443 said:
You answered your own question, the mods have better things to do. That's why the ignore thread function exists.

There's nothing wrong with this thread rules-wise though.
They don't want "score" threads but this one is actually not about the score.
Some fanboys butthurt about it but nobody force them to read this.


It's pretty clear this is a bait thread, and those are against the rules. Of course, you think anyone that points this out is a "butthurt fanboy" because you're a dumbass troll.
 
Feb 7, 1:49 AM

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TsukuyomiREKT said:
It's pretty clear this is a bait thread, and those are against the rules. Of course, you think anyone that points this out is a "butthurt fanboy" because you're a dumbass troll.

You're gonna need a bigger bait.
 
Feb 7, 2:31 AM
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SSL443 said:
Of course it's all my opinion. My opinion, just based on books I've read and movies I've watched (including anime).You're obviously welcome to accept or reject it. Ultimately any discussion can be reduced down to a basic question like "what is art". Subjective, but that hasn't stopped critical consensus from emerging.

Sure, but every time an advance was made in critical consensus was because something was established about art that wasn't just opinion.

malMaxi said:
I'm not even against fast pacing, an anime like One Punch Man that is incredibly fast paced works pretty well. Context is key and it depends on the content of the story. Certain subjects just work better with slower pacing, either because it is more realistic or because it makes it easier to absorb the material.

I don't disagree in general. However, i don't see the specifics of this in TY.

malMaxi said:
People with trauma take time to heal; it doesn't happen in a week. Forming relationships and building trust can be difficult in the aftermath of trauma or abuse as well. I don't keep newspaper articles bookmarked, so if you want medical journal citations I'll have to disappoint. Bottom line, the story just doesn't treat this subject with the gravity or realism it deserves.

Children heal amazingly fast. According to literature, it actually has to do with their physical growth, so a child that grows as rapid as Raftalia does can heal just as rapidly. Furthermore, it is not like Raftalia just spent this week sitting on her behind. She actually learned to fight. This is a major confidence booster on its own.
Also, you are sorta dismissing the simple notion that - to Raftalia - the idea of a Shield Hero is a moral pillar in itself. Having such a moral pillar embodied in your life is also a major factor in healing and even resisting emotional trauma (as detailed in literature as serious as accounts of Auschwitz).

So yeah, still not seeing the unrealism.

malMaxi said:
Ponyo grows from a tadpole sort of creature into a young girl at a very rapid pace. It's probably the closest analog of any of the examples I have; she also develops a close bond with the MC.

Then i'd be interested in which scene or interaction or series of interactions makesa the bond believeable to you in Ponyo's case, but doesn't make it so in TY's case.

malMaxi said:
That's... kind of the point. Lost of character stuff, growing up, not squeezed into a single episode.

That's also a completely different story with completely different priorities. Eve spent basically the entirety of its run being interested in emotional state of just a very limited cast of characters. TY has a larger scale story to tell, so it simply can't devote the entirety of itself to just one relationship.

malMaxi said:
His relationship with her develops over several episodes, most notably the first four. There is also the sequence the covers the young Claire and Teresa, which also takes several episodes. It's not all crammed together, whether it would fit into a single episode or not.

Again, your entire case is being reduced to basically time spent on relationships. You are of the opinion that good relationships cannot be built in less than 4 episodes because of ... what exactly?

malMaxi said:
Okay, then I doubt you'll accept it regardless.

I won't accept a blanket statement regardless, yes. If it was a more specific statement, rooted in the specifics of the show being discussed, then it might have had a chance. But so far i'm not seeing that.

We are both familiar with the story, I've made my claims and you haven't accepted them. I think you need to stop and ask exactly what you want to get out of this discussion; if you just want to pin me down by making me dissect the minutia of the plot complete with formal references, and invalidate my argument if I can't do it, then there isn't any point in prolonging this.

I want to understand the opposing point of view in order to improve mine. So far, however, you've given very little to use.

If we're not at least somewhat on the same page with regards to how a character with a background like Raphtalia should be handled, I don't think anything I outline will be able to bridge the divide. Shield Hero is obviously a casual fantasy story meant to be enjoyed as such; and that's perfectly fine. But when it starts to stray into more serious material, the quality of the writing is put to the test in terms of how much depth and nuance it can muster when handling these subjects.

The reason we are even having this discussion is because SH exhibits symptoms of not being a casual fantasy story, but actually having something to say on serious subjects.
I agree that the quality of writing is put to the test. What i don't understand is the parameters of the test that you specifically put forward. Atm it seems like TateYusha just automatically fails in your eyes for even having a child that grows within a span of a single episode as a story mechanic. This doesn't seem to say a lot about the nature of TY itself, though.

We have slavery; we know that Raphtalia watched her parents die; that she was captured by slavers; and that she was tortured by at least one former master. The story takes full advantage of the emotional impact of this backstory. But as soon as that purpose is fulfilled, it dispenses with them in favor of hurrying the plot along. Raphtalia is suddenly bold and assertive after only a week. Hell, in the episode that just aired she goes back to the same slaver that kept her chained in a cage to happily get the slave seal reapplied. Where is her resolve to protect children from a fate like her own? Isn't this slaver somewhat responsible for that? At the very least he treated her as subhuman.

The slaver and the slave seal is also responsible for her meeting with Naofumi, so, oddly enough, it can easily function is as much as symbol of hope as it is a symbol of the past. The whole point of getting over trauma is that it becomes a part of your life that you accept and can live with. The point of this scene is to show that Raftalia has, indeed, completely gotten over her past and got it under control. She does willingly accept the slave mark again, but this is now not a mark of slavery, but a mark of a choice to serve what she believes to be the embodiment of her ideas.

I don't see any issue with a child becoming strong in a situation where said child is, through her entire physical adolescence, endorsed by, relied upon and personally trained by her own embodiment of hope for the better future not just for herself, but the entirely of her kind. The fact that this particular work of fiction introduces a plotdevice that allows this growth to happen in a week is not in itself a problem. If that was a problem, then we'd have to throw away all fairy tales that make fantastical stuff happen for plot convenience. Classics like Alladin would suddenly be "bad storytelling" because the genie is unrealistic.

Point being, Raphtalia's character just isn't handled in a way that I can call believable. I don't really know how to argue that sensitive subjects need to be handled with nuance. To me, that's a point required to reach common ground in this discussion.

You haven't explained how much nuance you want and where it was absent in SH. So far the only thing you managed to quantify is the length of exposition. Apparently 4 eps is okay or something. However, we also do have the Ponyo and Kaguya examples, where the length of growth is comparable, but you have no issues with believability.

Going from what you said so far, this is probably because there was no trauma involved. So basically you choose to disbelieve any work of fiction that just posits the fundamental conditions for character getting over trauma without getting too deep into the actual process. Or maybe you are simply more interested in stories that focus more on getting over individual trauma than stories that talk about how such a person then moves on to affect society.

Here is a simple literary example. We never get to actually see how exactly Count Monte-Kristo gets over his issues and gets back on his feet. All we know is that he escaped, found wealth and found someone who trusts in him. Does this make his story "unbelievable"? Or are you willing to go along with the notion just because some time has passed off-screen? If so, how exactly is a week of magically accelerated growth any worse? Is it really so hard to grant the magically accelerated growth all the properties of a real growth and let the story just move on?
 
Feb 7, 3:56 AM
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@malMaxi

The reason I'd consider the character development rushed is that it lacks any impact when things just 'happen'.

In episode 1, we are introduced to a bland protagonist with no interesting or defining traits and are expected to care when everything goes against him - which doesn't work for me. I believe that you should be made to care for a character on the merit of their personality and not 'look at how bad this thing that happened to them is'. After Naofumi is betrayed, he completely changes personality and this is jarring to me. A more gradual change would better serve in establishing his character, especially considering his original personality was so ill-defined.

In episode 2, we're introduced to Raphtalia who is said to be both mentally and physically ill. Having one short scene dedicated to handwaving an illness fails to highlight the severity of said disease (I have no idea how serious this disease was but, from previous discussions, I've been told it's more serious than the anime conveyed.) Though the actual disease isn't that important, it does miss the opportunity to show the MC actually caring for her more. This lessens the believability of their bond.

The way they skip over the relationship development, in general, is just bad. Least importantly putting that little effort into adapting makes me care less, especially considering the only reason I watch anime is because it is animated and all of the benefits that provide. More importantly, it only gives a superficial impression of how their relationship is developing with little to no actual substance for me to get attached to or leave an impression on me. This means that when she overcomes her trauma it feels unearned and cheap.

Then at the beginning of episode 3, she has a completely different personality and in the absence of any details from the time skip, I can't bring myself to accept such a rapid change after the previous developments didn't convince me either. Furthermore, the change actually makes her a worse character because most of her character traits have been replaced with ones that seem over-engineered to make her a waifu. Her devotion to Naofumi is her most defining character trait. Naofumi also gets very little character development past 'he's actually not as much of a dick as he's pretending to be'.

Taken in a vacuum, episode 4 is actually well executed. However, given the poor execution of the past episodes, it fails at making an impact on me. It doesn't help that Naofumi's persecution seems more and more contrived and petty every episode - with 5 being the epitome of pettiness.

Episode 5 again skips over the relationship development of a newly introduced character and the relationship of the other characters doesn't get expanded much upon apart from Raphtalia's sudden sexual attraction to Naofumi. Filo turning into a loli at the end of the episode makes me question the quality of the writing even more. Spear and Myne's behaviour is too juvenile and cheapens the experience.

The best example what I'm trying to say would be the difference between hearing something on the news that doesn't affect you and feeling sad/happy about compared to the feeling of experiencing it yourself. The best media can give the illusion of having the experience but, Shield Hero completely fails at delivering this.

 
Feb 7, 7:08 AM

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Whateverlife said:
the whole isekai things is a mistake, start from SAO if that's what you mean


Here. I'm going to teach you something good. SAO is NOT isekai. Isekai means "an other world". SAO is "locked in a game" for AINCRAD and "I play video games sometimes" every other arcs.. A virtual reality/video game. That's what SAO is.
"Vaut mieux se suffire à soi que finir assoiffé dans le monde des apparences."

 
Feb 7, 9:30 AM

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Tony_SansNom said:
Whateverlife said:
the whole isekai things is a mistake, start from SAO if that's what you mean


Here. I'm going to teach you something good. SAO is NOT isekai. Isekai means "an other world". SAO is "locked in a game" for AINCRAD and "I play video games sometimes" every other arcs.. A virtual reality/video game. That's what SAO is.
I believe being trapped in a game world falls under the umbrella of being in another world.
 
Feb 7, 9:51 AM

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Demyx_IX said:
Tony_SansNom said:


Here. I'm going to teach you something good. SAO is NOT isekai. Isekai means "an other world". SAO is "locked in a game" for AINCRAD and "I play video games sometimes" every other arcs.. A virtual reality/video game. That's what SAO is.
I believe being trapped in a game world falls under the umbrella of being in another world.


Lulzlno. It isn't. Let's not pretend it is. You stay at the same place, at the same world, in the same reality. This isn't isekai.
"Vaut mieux se suffire à soi que finir assoiffé dans le monde des apparences."

 
Feb 7, 10:26 AM

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Tony_SansNom said:
Demyx_IX said:
I believe being trapped in a game world falls under the umbrella of being in another world.


Lulzlno. It isn't. Let's not pretend it is. You stay at the same place, at the same world, in the same reality. This isn't isekai.
By this logic, a series where the MC goes into a coma, and has their conciousness transported to a new body in a different world, is not an isekai either.
 
Feb 7, 10:31 AM

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malMaxi said:

I won't accept a blanket statement regardless, yes. If it was a more specific statement, rooted in the specifics of the show being discussed, then it might have had a chance. But so far i'm not seeing that.

Then I don't know what you're looking for.

It just seems obvious to me that the events of the 2nd episode are rushed because that's what the story needs. It's very glib, one-and-done, now on to the next thing. Everything in this series is arranged around cheap devices to manipulate the viewers emotions for maximum payoff of the MC vindication/revenge plot. Quite frankly the writing feels WORSE than a typical turn-your-brain-off popcorn action movie because of this.

It almost feels like watching a propaganda video, what with all the over-the-top evil characters and situations that make them look bad and the MC look good, then rubs their faces in it.

malMaxi said:

You haven't explained how much nuance you want and where it was absent in SH.

Maybe something with more nuance than a middle-schoolers head-trip.

malMaxi said:

The fact that this particular work of fiction introduces a plotdevice that allows this growth to happen in a week is not in itself a problem. If that was a problem, then we'd have to throw away all fairy tales that make fantastical stuff happen for plot convenience. Classics like Alladin would suddenly be "bad storytelling" because the genie is unrealistic.

If it's a plot device of convenience, and one that compromises the quality of the story, then it's a problem. Not sure that the genie really does either both of those things.

malMaxi said:

Here is a simple literary example. We never get to actually see how exactly Count Monte-Kristo gets over his issues and gets back on his feet. All we know is that he escaped, found wealth and found someone who trusts in him. Does this make his story "unbelievable"? Or are you willing to go along with the notion just because some time has passed off-screen?

Dante's character is shaped and developed significantly before the timeskip, which sets the stage for what comes after.

malMaxi said:

Again, your entire case is being reduced to basically time spent on relationships. You are of the opinion that good relationships cannot be built in less than 4 episodes because of ... what exactly?

No, you're reducing my case to that. Obviously I'm just not good enough at explaining what my point of view is. Feels bad man.
 
Feb 7, 11:03 AM
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Kamiyan3991 said:
TsukuyomiREKT said:
It's pretty clear this is a bait thread, and those are against the rules. Of course, you think anyone that points this out is a "butthurt fanboy" because you're a dumbass troll.

You're gonna need a bigger bait.

You mean like the title of this thread? If your goal was to trigger the people who actually enjoy this show than congratulations, mission accomplished chief.

Btw I don't like this show. I'm just tired of seeing these kind of bait threads on every popular seasonal anime.
 
Feb 7, 11:18 AM

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Kamiyan3991 said:

There's nothing wrong with this thread rules-wise though.
They don't want "score" threads but this one is actually not about the score.
Some fanboys butthurt about it but nobody force them to read this.

That's my point, I don't know why people ree when they can just hide the thread altogether.
 
Feb 7, 11:22 AM

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Grimzey said:

You mean like the title of this thread?

What's wrong with the title tho? Imho, the writing here is exceptionally bad, so I only pointed it out. I even bother to add extra bs from this show every week, since I find it quite amusing. I mean, it's written terribly even for an isekai, and that clearly deserves its own thread.

Grimzey said:
If your goal was to trigger the people who actually enjoy this show than congratulations, mission accomplished chief.

You guys are too easy to trigger then. You can make the thread about Kaguya (I actually gave it frickin' 10) and, trust me, I couldn't care less. Though, I'd probably read it and maybe even agree with some points. Every show has some flaws and, believe me or not, the world won't fall apart only 'cause some people don't like your fav show.

Grimzey said:
I'm just tired of seeing these kind of bait threads on every popular seasonal anime.

Can't be helped. Most popular anime are simply overhyped. Not all of them obvi. For an instance, go to Neverland forum. Do you see any "bait" threads on the first page? Me neither. Well, it obvi. can get much worse with time, but for now it's several times better than this generic isekai show. It comes down to good/bad writing. People won't complain about popular show (not as much at least) if that show is genuinely good. That's what I think.
Modified by Kamiyan3991, Feb 7, 11:26 AM
 
Feb 7, 1:23 PM

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SSL443 said:
Kamiyan3991 said:

There's nothing wrong with this thread rules-wise though.
They don't want "score" threads but this one is actually not about the score.
Some fanboys butthurt about it but nobody force them to read this.

That's my point, I don't know why people ree when they can just hide the thread altogether.


That doesn't really do anything since anytime someone posts in it, it'll show up in the recent posts and anime series discussions.
 
Feb 7, 1:26 PM

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TsukuyomiREKT said:

That doesn't really do anything since anytime someone posts in it, it'll show up in the recent posts and anime series discussions.

Sounds like you'll have to tough it out then.
 
Feb 7, 1:31 PM

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Demyx_IX said:
Tony_SansNom said:


Lulzlno. It isn't. Let's not pretend it is. You stay at the same place, at the same world, in the same reality. This isn't isekai.
By this logic, a series where the MC goes into a coma, and has their conciousness transported to a new body in a different world, is not an isekai either.


But their consciousness is not brought to some other world. It's an illusion that is shown to their brain.
"Vaut mieux se suffire à soi que finir assoiffé dans le monde des apparences."

 
Feb 7, 1:41 PM

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SSL443 said:
TsukuyomiREKT said:

That doesn't really do anything since anytime someone posts in it, it'll show up in the recent posts and anime series discussions.

Sounds like you'll have to tough it out then.


Don't worry. I'll manage.
 
Feb 7, 2:15 PM

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Kamiyan3991 said:

You guys are too easy to trigger then. You can make the thread about Kaguya (I actually gave it frickin' 10) and, trust me, I couldn't care less. Though, I'd probably read it and maybe even agree with some points. Every show has some flaws and, believe me or not, the world won't fall apart only 'cause some people don't like your fav show.
Kaguya is a masterpiece. It is easily my favorite show of the season.

I, a manga and WN reader, also agree with your stand OP, Shield Hero's writing is one of the worst I have seen. It is so blatant that the writer just wants to win the favour of the otaku readers by incorporating every cliche that these people dig. Not to mention that the over victimization of the MC is cringeworthy.
"Life is too bitter, so coffee, atleast should be sweet........ " - Hikigaya Hachiman (Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatte Iru)
 
Feb 7, 2:18 PM
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Nice clickbait, you troll.
 
Feb 7, 3:12 PM
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Hlodwigoat said:
Kamiyan3991 said:
Episode 5 in a nutshell



I see no problem with that though lmao.


I guess it depends on how seriously we are supposed to take the antagonists/villains.

A shitty villain can ruin a story faster than a shitty hero. And at the very least in episode 5 Malty and the Spear are just being evil for evil's sake. And of course they would do so in the town the Shield hero is currently staying.
 
Feb 7, 3:30 PM
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Kamiyan3991 said:
Grimzey said:

You mean like the title of this thread?

What's wrong with the title tho? Imho, the writing here is exceptionally bad, so I only pointed it out. I even bother to add extra bs from this show every week, since I find it quite amusing. I mean, it's written terribly even for an isekai, and that clearly deserves its own thread.

Grimzey said:
If your goal was to trigger the people who actually enjoy this show than congratulations, mission accomplished chief.

You guys are too easy to trigger then. You can make the thread about Kaguya (I actually gave it frickin' 10) and, trust me, I couldn't care less. Though, I'd probably read it and maybe even agree with some points. Every show has some flaws and, believe me or not, the world won't fall apart only 'cause some people don't like your fav show.

Grimzey said:
I'm just tired of seeing these kind of bait threads on every popular seasonal anime.

Can't be helped. Most popular anime are simply overhyped. Not all of them obvi. For an instance, go to Neverland forum. Do you see any "bait" threads on the first page? Me neither. Well, it obvi. can get much worse with time, but for now it's several times better than this generic isekai show. It comes down to good/bad writing. People won't complain about popular show (not as much at least) if that show is genuinely good. That's what I think.

Except Neverland had like 5 threads that were literally identical to this one in every way and they all got taken down in like a day, so you can guess why I'm wondering that this one is still running after 3 weeks when it's literally the same useless bait thread but for a different show.

Also I like how you totally just ignored the part where I said that I DON'T like Shield Hero. You literally could have quote the entire text but you left out the part where I said that I don't like the show on purpose just so you can threat me like a butthurt fanboy because it's literally all you been saying to the people that don't agree with the purpose of this garbage thread so far. Too bad you can't modify your arguments to the specific person you are arguing with. I'll say it again in caps lock in case you haven't notice yet : I DON'T ENJOY THIS SHOW.

Oh and btw, you can't just come to a title with a 8.50 score, uses a title like "This is the worst writing I've seen" and expect me to believe your goal wasn't to bait.

In short, this whole fucking thread is a pure waste of time that shouldn't even exist in the first place and you people should use your energy on something productive instead of bashing a show for three weeks straight when you could just drop it and move on. You people have too much free time.

P.S : I respect you for your good taste on Kaguya tho, best show this season with Mob Psycho
Modified by Grimzey, Feb 7, 4:38 PM
 
Feb 7, 4:10 PM
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Kamiyan3991 said:
Grimzey said:

You mean like the title of this thread?

What's wrong with the title tho? Imho, the writing here is exceptionally bad, so I only pointed it out. I even bother to add extra bs from this show every week, since I find it quite amusing. I mean, it's written terribly even for an isekai, and that clearly deserves its own thread.

Grimzey said:
If your goal was to trigger the people who actually enjoy this show than congratulations, mission accomplished chief.

You guys are too easy to trigger then. You can make the thread about Kaguya (I actually gave it frickin' 10) and, trust me, I couldn't care less. Though, I'd probably read it and maybe even agree with some points. Every show has some flaws and, believe me or not, the world won't fall apart only 'cause some people don't like your fav show.

Grimzey said:
I'm just tired of seeing these kind of bait threads on every popular seasonal anime.

Can't be helped. Most popular anime are simply overhyped. Not all of them obvi. For an instance, go to Neverland forum. Do you see any "bait" threads on the first page? Me neither. Well, it obvi. can get much worse with time, but for now it's several times better than this generic isekai show. It comes down to good/bad writing. People won't complain about popular show (not as much at least) if that show is genuinely good. That's what I think.


All good anime are overhyped really this one is just higher this season is becouse a lot more people like it. I do agreed this isnt a best seeling plot but is still one were people enjoy it. The only reason this anime has a lot of posts trying to preach how bad it is, is mostly becouse they favourite show is being less noticed like kaguya and promiced even sao. Im not saying they bad i pretty much like them too but they not giving me the same enjoyment im having with the shield hero. Also if you dont like it y are you still here? In my point of view it just looks like your the one who is trigger if you waist your time watching a show you dont like so you can post 5 reasons why you dint like the episode.

Edit: and probably im sure most people ( me included) that love this series are people who ben following the LN or manga for over 2 years we just happy that theres an anime now
Modified by Aniteku, Feb 7, 4:16 PM
 
Feb 7, 8:06 PM

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Tony_SansNom said:
Demyx_IX said:
By this logic, a series where the MC goes into a coma, and has their conciousness transported to a new body in a different world, is not an isekai either.


But their consciousness is not brought to some other world. It's an illusion that is shown to their brain.


Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Yes it is. The "world" might not be real like the world they live in, but their consciousness is brought to the game's world, all 5 senses are present, they get hungry/tired in that world, so on and so forth.
 
Feb 8, 12:10 AM
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SSL443 said:
Then I don't know what you're looking for.

You need to look no further than @DumpsterKing 's reply for an example of a fitting discourse on the topic. I'll be quoting it below, too.

It just seems obvious to me that the events of the 2nd episode are rushed because that's what the story needs. It's very glib, one-and-done, now on to the next thing. Everything in this series is arranged around cheap devices to manipulate the viewers emotions for maximum payoff of the MC vindication/revenge plot.

I can see that it is obvious to you. However, it is not obvious to me.
The way i differ from most people is that i find situations like these actually interesting and a good source of learnings things or perspectives i wasn't aware of before.
However, these discussions also tend to be unproductive when the other party insists on everything just being "obvious". Which is what you are doing.

In order to claim "cheap", you need to contrast what you consider "expensive" and point out the exact differences. "One-and-done" is simply wrong, because the events of episode 2 reverbate through all episodes so far (though admittedly less so in ep.5, on account on focus shifting to new character) and will continue to do so through the series.

As a result, what you claim to be "cheap devices to manipulate the viewers emotions for maximum payoff of the MC vindication/revenge plot" seems to me like a story that is well focused and properly intentioned in terms of pursuing its priorities.

Could it be that you have an issue with like vindication polt? I already had a run-in with a critic of the show that held the opinion that Naofumi is straight up beyond redemption after he took up a slave. Is that your position? Or maybe you don't like vindication plots themselves? Or maybe you think the vindication plot in this show in particular is missing something?

Quite frankly the writing feels WORSE than a typical turn-your-brain-off popcorn action movie because of this.
It almost feels like watching a propaganda video, what with all the over-the-top evil characters and situations that make them look bad and the MC look good.

I will grant you that the villains of SH are weak. And will get weaker as the story progresses. The focus of the story is on redemption
. The villains are little more than exposition devices and an excuse for fights. In fact, i'm surprised how well the adaptation has handled the villains so far, both the spear hero and the princess were already much more of a cardboard than they are in the anime at this point in the story.

Maybe something with more nuance than a middle-schoolers head-trip.

This doesn't qualify as actual explanation, though? I mean, you aren't mentioning specific parts of the story, just rendering a (so far unfounded) judgement.

Also, you really shouldn't underestimate middle schooler headtrips. I happen to work in a middle school, and let me tell you, some of the stuff i've seen will easily give even Eva a run for its money.
If it's a plot device of convenience, and one that compromises the quality of the story, then it's a problem. Not sure that the genie really does either both of those things.

Genie is definitely a convenience. Were it not for the genie, the hero would have to spend years if not decades being a desert bandit and accumulating both sufficient wealth to stage a comeback and sufficient political power to stand against the vizier.

Whether the genie spoils the story depends on what you think the story is about. If you think it is about a self-made man standing against the power, then the genie definitely spoils everything. If you think it is a love story, with a bit of magical justice on the side, then the genie is just fine. Same with Shield Hero. It is not a story of childhood trauma, so abstracting it through a magical plotdevice harms nothing.

Dante's character is shaped and developed significantly before the timeskip, which sets the stage for what comes after.

The name is Edmond Dantès. "Dante" usually refers to a completely different character of a completely different writer.

He is developed significantly, but only so far as to make him break in a convincing manner. I don't recall anything in his life before the prison being of any help in his life after it, or important for the intermittent years. Though it has been a while since i read it, so feel free to correct me on this.

Now that i think of it, Monte Cristo is really not a bad archetypical story to compare Shield Hero to. Thanks for pushing me towards that association :D

No, you're reducing my case to that. Obviously I'm just not good enough at explaining what my point of view is. Feels bad man.

That's okay. This takes a while. Just recently i was in a similar situation with Promised Neverland. Thankfully, the guy i was talking with managed to ask the right questions to get me to explain myself properly. So yeah, maybe i'm not a good enough partner for this. Feels bad, man.

----------------
DumpsterKing said:
@malMaxi

The reason I'd consider the character development rushed is that it lacks any impact when things just 'happen'.

First off, let me thank you for a well thought out and structured reply. I don't yet know my answers, but i want to let you know that your effort is greatly appreciated.

In episode 1, we are introduced to a bland protagonist with no interesting or defining traits and are expected to care when everything goes against him - which doesn't work for me. I believe that you should be made to care for a character on the merit of their personality and not 'look at how bad this thing that happened to them is'. After Naofumi is betrayed, he completely changes personality and this is jarring to me. A more gradual change would better serve in establishing his character, especially considering his original personality was so ill-defined.

I agree that Naofumi's original personalization is weak. I also agree that the part where he is enjoying the parallel world is also weak. The only possible excuse is that the author was trying to get to the main part (betrayal) asap and really wanted rage against injustice to be the only defining trait of his character.

I don't think Naofumi's personality completely changes, though. In fact, i saw many a quiet ill-defined RL dude get exactly like that in a threatening situation. I prefer to view this as previously undeveloped portiions of his personality coming to light. I will grant you that these things need to be foreshadowed better, though.

Whether it kills someone's enjoyment of the show, i guess, depends on how much RL experience they have with shifts like these. I personally saw many a young adult who are completely unremarkable in peaceful setting react in this way when threatened in some manner, so i can still relate to this story.

In episode 2, we're introduced to Raphtalia who is said to be both mentally and physically ill. Having one short scene dedicated to handwaving an illness fails to highlight the severity of said disease (I have no idea how serious this disease was but, from previous discussions, I've been told it's more serious than the anime conveyed.) Though the actual disease isn't that important, it does miss the opportunity to show the MC actually caring for her more. This lessens the believability of their bond.

I am not entirely certain how increasing the amount of care scenes would explain things any better. Showing scenes of caring and establishing that Naofumi just carries on like that for a week was actually enough for me. At this point, i usually ask for examples of shows where a similar situation is handled better, so that it is possible to compare and contrast.

As for believability, the important part for me was not Naofumi's care but Raftalia's side of things. It is completely believable that Naofumi would do his best with the cards he is given. What's important is why Naofumi's best would elicit as much loyalty in Raftalia as it does. I believe four successive scenes in ep.2 (the tavern, the first fight, the medicine and the dog), as well as the montage, establish the importance of Naofumi to Raftalia beyond any shadow of a doubt.

In fact, it seems to me that the only way to miss that is to basically not pay attention at all, being completely engrossed in other matters, like Naofumi himself does. Obviously, i might be wrong. The rest of my answer addresses some ways in which we could explore this further.

The way they skip over the relationship development, in general, is just bad. Least importantly putting that little effort into adapting makes me care less, especially considering the only reason I watch anime is because it is animated and all of the benefits that provide. More importantly, it only gives a superficial impression of how their relationship is developing with little to no actual substance for me to get attached to or leave an impression on me. This means that when she overcomes her trauma it feels unearned and cheap.

I will pose the same question to you as i did to SSL443 - what kind of substance does get you attached? The best answer would be references to other shows that have the kind of substance that works for you, with references to specific scenes. We can then talk about why what SH has doesn't work as well as what other shows have.

Then at the beginning of episode 3, she has a completely different personality and in the absence of any details from the time skip, I can't bring myself to accept such a rapid change after the previous developments didn't convince me either. Furthermore, the change actually makes her a worse character because most of her character traits have been replaced with ones that seem over-engineered to make her a waifu. Her devotion to Naofumi is her most defining character trait. Naofumi also gets very little character development past 'he's actually not as much of a dick as he's pretending to be'.

Again, let's start with Naofumi, as his side is simpler in this. The message i get is not that "Naofumi is not actually as much of a dick", but rather that he is exactly as much as a dick, but that it is also completely okay, as being able to protect people occasionally necessitates being a dick. This is shown through the moments of Naofumi having that particular evil smile, actively enjoying the little bits of revenge he gets on Motoyasu and the like.

Naofumi's character development in the first 4 episodes comes mostly in the form of him learning to once again appreciate his surroundings. Events of ep.1 forced him into the shell. Events of ep.4 gave him a choice - either retreat deeper in that shell, or give the world another chance. His development is in that choice. That's a decent amount of development for 1 ark.

Raftalia's side is harder. The major difference between your perception and mine is that i was completely sold on the dog scene. As far as i can tell, Raftalia chose her path and decided to seriously put her life on the line for the ideal hero she believes Naofumi can be. It is then implied she proceeded to grow stronger and stronger with that particular mindset, to the point of becoming one of the kingdom's best fighters. If she were anything but loyal, confident and assertive, there is no way she could have achieved those results. Also, as her faith is not in real Naofumi, but in the ideal Naofumi, she is perfectly okay with correcting reality to match her ideal.

The only real question is, i guess, whether you are treating Raftalia's transition as still being a child, albeit in adult form, or actual transition from childhood to adulthood, with the full impact of one on a character of a person, even though accelerated by magic. It is possible to treat it as the latter for three reasons:
1) It is not altogether uncommon for timid, sickly kids to grow up strong and assertive with proper care. And Raftalia did get proper care during her growth phase.
2) Many of behavioural changes going from child to adult are acutally based in physiology and brain development. Raftalia got that with levels
3) The most important set of psychological changes from child to adult have to do with the idea of getting strong enough to fight the circumstances. Grinding levels is exactly that

Now i will accept that the reasons the show works for me may be deeply personal for my own view of the world and that the same moves won't work for other people with a different view of the world. Once again, the real way to move forward here is to name shows that handled the child to adult development over a small amount of episodes better and then compare and contrast.

Taken in a vacuum, episode 4 is actually well executed. However, given the poor execution of the past episodes, it fails at making an impact on me.

I can see how that would be the case. What i'm interested in is how something that definitely made an impact on me failed to reach other people. Specifically, where is the weakness of the show that i happen to be blind to.

It doesn't help that Naofumi's persecution seems more and more contrived and petty every episode - with 5 being the epitome of pettiness.
Episode 5 again skips over the relationship development of a newly introduced character and the relationship of the other characters doesn't get expanded much upon apart from Raphtalia's sudden sexual attraction to Naofumi. Filo turning into a loli at the end of the episode makes me question the quality of the writing even more. Spear and Myne's behaviour is too juvenile and cheapens the experience.

I don't mind having a comedic moment to show how previous threats are no longer as bad as they were. The issue is how the newer and bigger threats will be handled, a notion on which i share some of your worry.

The character development of Firo was fine. She is established to be a strong-willed bird that won't let anyone get in the way on her instincts, or her desire to get her way. Some interesting dynamics appear between her and Naofumi (with whom she shares that desire to get her way and act on instinct, culminating in humiliation of Motoyasu), as well as her and Raftalia (to whom she is a source of some complications and discomfort, but someone she has to deal with as a party memeber).

The loli transformation is not something i hate. I mean, she had to appear naked sometime someplace, the way it was done wasn't all that bad. I actually prefer it to the LN sequence of events, too. Complaints about the very presence of a naked loli are really not to be laid at the feet of the Shield Hero, as much as at the feet of anime and even japanese media culture in general.

The best example what I'm trying to say would be the difference between hearing something on the news that doesn't affect you and feeling sad/happy about compared to the feeling of experiencing it yourself. The best media can give the illusion of having the experience but, Shield Hero completely fails at delivering this.

While i'm willing to accept that maybe i'm blind to some Shield Hero's faults, i will still have to point out that it did work for me and did work for many others. So the failure may not be as complete as you think. And maybe the faults are not as big as you make them out to be and can be overlooked.
 
Feb 8, 12:31 AM
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mecegirl said:
Hlodwigoat said:


I see no problem with that though lmao.


I guess it depends on how seriously we are supposed to take the antagonists/villains.

A shitty villain can ruin a story faster than a shitty hero. And at the very least in episode 5 Malty and the Spear are just being evil for evil's sake. And of course they would do so in the town the Shield hero is currently staying.


Don't forget that by introducing the Queen this episode, Malty's power as a villain is severely lowered, making her feel like a mix of that Team Rocket quality villain (in terms of achievements) and a main character from one of those juvenile delinquent/teen angst films like Rebel Without a Cause.
 
Feb 8, 1:33 AM
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@malMaxi

I think it would be important for you to understand how I approach critical criticism.

If there is a mismatch between how I feel and what the anime is trying to make me feel, I then try to understand why it didn't make me feel that way. The most impactful emotional experiences I've had with media have been after a prolonged period of investment before I feel the need to 'care'.

For example, Made in Abyss kept a sense of foreboding danger for 6 episodes while endearing me to the characters before it seemingly delivered on that sense of danger. This turned out to be a fakeout and reinforced the idea that 'the danger will always never be serious' in my mind. When it actually delivered on the tension it had been building for 10 episodes, it left me feeling empty for an hour afterwards.

Similarly, my favourite anime, Steins;Gate spends half it's runtime getting you invested in the characters before hitting you with anything that would be particularly 'emotional'.

My favourite anime from last year, Yagate Kimi ni Naru, also spends more time developing the intricacies of the main two characters personalities before trying to get me to feel anything.

Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that having a longer period to allow you to get you attached to the characters is better.

There have been some exceptions to the rule, though, like Monogatari. In the case of Monogatari, however, each of the characters is so full of personality and nuance that gets displayed within the episode they are the focus of. After listening to two characters talk for 10-20 minutes straight, it manages to leave a strong impression on me. In addition, Shaft's amazing presentation skills enhance the 'experience'. Like I said in my first response, I think media should make you feel like you're experiencing the thing it's portraying. Example https://youtu.be/grPp0x18QtI

In the same way, Redline is such a technical marvel that the style outways the minimal substance of the movie. https://sakugabooru.com/data/c00a1ecd1e74399a4589869f32a503e2.mp4

The closest example to Shield Hero I've watched would be Princess Kaguya. The visuals are beautiful and impactful by themselves but, every development is developed over the right course of time. Where Shield Hero pans over the still image of a scene, Princess Kaguya will animate that stage of development fully.

Also, I should mention, I prefer 'fully realised' characters over 'realistic' characters. By that I mean, characters can be superficially realistic without the depth or nuance of a real person.
Modified by DumpsterKing, Feb 8, 2:35 AM
 
Feb 8, 5:45 AM

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Grimzey said:
Except Neverland had like 5 threads that were literally identical to this one in every way and they all got taken down in like a day, so you can guess why I'm wondering that this one is still running after 3 weeks when it's literally the same useless bait thread but for a different show.

I see only 1 (one) locked topic, so I'm pretty sure you're mistaken.

Grimzey said:
Also I like how you totally just ignored the part where I said that I DON'T like Shield Hero.

Why would I comment on that? It's not relevant to this thread. I wasn't even refering to you specifically. I meant it in general.
Oh well, did that "you guys" part give you the wrong idea? Mb then.

Grimzey said:
Oh and btw, you can't just come to a title with a 8.50 score, uses a title like "This is the worst writing I've seen" and expect me to believe your goal wasn't to bait.

Uhh, you've just said that I intentionally ignored some part of your post. But now you're intentionally ignoring some part of my thread?
> This is the worst writing I've seen in a while <

Grimzey said:
You people should use your energy on something productive instead of bashing a show for three weeks straight when you could just drop it and move on.

Why would I drop it? It's actually kind of entertaining for me. The writing here is exceptionally bad and it gets worse every week. Sometimes, you can watch something out of curiosity, just to see how bad it can get.

Grimzey said:
P.S : I respect you for your good taste on Kaguya tho, best show this season with Mob Psycho.

Thanks man.
 
Feb 8, 10:11 AM

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Will still be giving this show a chance but what I think so far?

Every episode = a scenario of revenge porn so far. A loli bird (that looks like a Pokemon) that turns the Spear Hero into comedy relief. Then we go from that to a naked loli girl, man this sure isn't like other Isekai am I right? So now it's just the nobles (for now) who are against Naofumi and takes that concept of 'the whole world is against him' go flying out the window. Things just happen too fast, Raphtalia's development is at neck break speed and Naofumi is a cringe-fest. And of course, the creator wants to have the slave mark on her tits. And this world showed something interesting though, for the game aspects of this world, it showed a loot box system lol with the loli bird egg.

And after Naofumi's efforts in the first wave where he protected the village, he starts to get a lot of freebies. It's all getting easy for him and this whole "against the world" thing is struggling to hold weight. And he can't read the world's language, yet everyone in this world, which is in a different dimension, and in a medieval power fantasy setting speaks Japanese? The loli bird grew and developed as fast as Raphtalia, this is why I don't really care about her story and her growth.

And the evil thot is at it again, she is so one-dimensional. I don't think I can sit here through another episode without eye rolling if every episode is going to show her trying to set up Naofumi. Back to the Spear Hero, I don't get why he is so oblivious to the bullshit that the evil thot is cooking up, but now it's understandable when you read his bio -
he is the perfect definition of a social justice white knight, it literally states he thinks all women are angels who can never be evil or lie. He was stabbed to death in his previous world/life by having multiple girlfriends who were yandere for him lol smh r/niceguys am I, right? What a beta male! Shield Hero almost seems like an empowerment fantasy for cucks and losers.

To the people who keep claiming that it isn't a harem...just what do you call an anime where the main character is surrounded by women who seem to have no free will or agency of their own and keep clinging to the hero and where all the male characters are always morally or physically inferior to him? Harems are not all bad, but this type is. I swear the fandom will always have answers to everything about this show. Only it's never satisfying and it just makes me wonder why they didn't give the answers earlier, this is what they say,

"We still have the ingenious inclusion of a BIRD LOLI that no one ever expected hence a SUBVERSION of other isekai anime and that makes all your FACTUAL opinion meaningless ha suck on that"

It's not much different than other Iseki stories/anime when you think about it. Let's praise it for (NOT) being different. This isn't a good underdog story either. There is barely any consistency in the writing so far and all the story is doing is giving Naofumi the moral high ground. This anime should be called,

"The Rising of the Revenge Porn and Harem."
Modified by papsoshea, Feb 8, 10:29 AM
 
Feb 8, 10:53 AM
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this is stupid topic. so stupid
 
Feb 8, 11:27 AM

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Are not humans supposed to hate demihumans? How can these same people be the link of Naofumi with the other people of the town?
also this that all the adorable characters (or the majority) are next to the prota, does not encourage that same problem? "If they are not with me they are all enemies"

"Intelligent is not the person who is always right, but the one who admits that he is wrong".
 
Feb 8, 1:03 PM
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Very much the typical "Overrated anime" discussion. Mostly a bunch of baiting, flaming and people arguing endlessly. If you want to discuss anime you find overrated or underrated, please do so here: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1504768

No need to make a baity topic for it.
 
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