You're not wrong. |
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I see no problem with that though lmao. |
Grimzey said: TsukuyomiREKT said: This thread still isn't locked? I don't know why it's still running, threads has been locked and even deleted for way less. It's been straight up cancer and totally useless since the first post (the creation of it) and there's almost 500 comments in it and we're yet to find a damn reason to why it even exist in the first place. I guess they think that by writing passive-aggressive essays of their opinion on the matter, they think their opinion matter when it really doesn't because 1 : they are not known and respected reviewers of MAL and 2 : they lack the skills to be known and respected reviewers of MAL. This is just some middle school students intellect picking on each other thinking they are like Stark700 or ZephSilver when nobody even cares in the first place. Ikr. The enforcement of rules on this site is so inconsistent. Sometimes a bait thread like this will get locked/deleted immediately, and sometimes it'll stay up for a week or more without a single mod doing anything or even giving a warning. I know there isn't many people on the team, and managing a site as big as MAL is obviously going to be challenging. But when a thread gets made that is so blatantly troll garbage, it shouldn't stay up for this long. Like, how is it possible to miss this? |
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TsukuyomiREKT said: Grimzey said: I don't know why it's still running, threads has been locked and even deleted for way less. It's been straight up cancer and totally useless since the first post (the creation of it) and there's almost 500 comments in it and we're yet to find a damn reason to why it even exist in the first place. I guess they think that by writing passive-aggressive essays of their opinion on the matter, they think their opinion matter when it really doesn't because 1 : they are not known and respected reviewers of MAL and 2 : they lack the skills to be known and respected reviewers of MAL. This is just some middle school students intellect picking on each other thinking they are like Stark700 or ZephSilver when nobody even cares in the first place. Ikr. The enforcement of rules on this site is so inconsistent. Sometimes a bait thread like this will get locked/deleted immediately, and sometimes it'll stay up for a week or more without a single mod doing anything or even giving a warning. I know there isn't many people on the team, and managing a site as big as MAL is obviously going to be challenging. But when a thread gets made that is so blatantly troll garbage, it shouldn't stay up for this long. Like, how is it possible to miss this? You answered your own question, the mods have better things to do. That's why the ignore thread function exists. |
| Why are these kinds of forums always popping up for seasonals that have only released 1-3 episodes so far? |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
SSL443 said: You answered your own question, the mods have better things to do. That's why the ignore thread function exists. There's nothing wrong with this thread rules-wise though. They don't want "score" threads but this one is actually not about the score. Some fanboys butthurt about it but nobody force them to read this. |
malMaxi said: There is no issue of pacing though? I mean you are saying it like it is objectively there and use 'but it is just your opinion" against me claiming otherwise, but what exactly is preventing me from calling your position "just opinion" as well? Of course it's all my opinion. My opinion, just based on books I've read and movies I've watched (including anime).You're obviously welcome to accept or reject it. Ultimately any discussion can be reduced down to a basic question like "what is art". Subjective, but that hasn't stopped critical consensus from emerging. malMaxi said: If you are claiming that TateYusha is objectively bad, you're gonna have to do a better job establishing the objective reality than you did so far. I will grant you that the show is going fast, but you haven't established why going fast is bad beyond what appears to be a principled stance against going fast in general. I'm not even against fast pacing, an anime like One Punch Man that is incredibly fast paced works pretty well. Context is key and it depends on the content of the story. Certain subjects just work better with slower pacing, either because it is more realistic or because it makes it easier to absorb the material. malMaxi said: She does develop in a belieavable way, though? I mean, you haven't made any point as to what specifically is unbelievable aside from length of time committed to it. As a result, your own point becomes very narrow. Again, if you want your point to be viewed wider, you'll need to find a way to express it in wider terms. People with trauma take time to heal; it doesn't happen in a week. Forming relationships and building trust can be difficult in the aftermath of trauma or abuse as well. I don't keep newspaper articles bookmarked, so if you want medical journal citations I'll have to disappoint. Bottom line, the story just doesn't treat this subject with the gravity or realism it deserves. malMaxi said: Ponyo is an invalid example because it doesn't feature kids growing up. It just features kids. Ponyo grows from a tadpole sort of creature into a young girl at a very rapid pace. It's probably the closest analog of any of the examples I have; she also develops a close bond with the MC. malMaxi said: NGE is a an invalid example because, while it sorta features kids growing up, it does so not over the couse of 30 minutes of screentime, but over the entire series. That's... kind of the point. Lost of character stuff, growing up, not squeezed into a single episode. malMaxi said: Claymore is a closer example. because, while the male character in question does grow up over the course of a series, his screentime is not really all that significant and could feasibly be condensed to a pair of epsiodes. However, i then have to question what exactly is done in, say, first 30 minutes of his screentime that makes his relationship with the protagonist more believable than that of Raftalia with Naofumi. I don't exactly recall it having anything much more impactful or different, or even in the way of "cover the ground and take it in". His relationship with her develops over several episodes, most notably the first four. There is also the sequence the covers the young Claire and Teresa, which also takes several episodes. It's not all crammed together, whether it would fit into a single episode or not. malMaxi said: All of which TY exhibits (at least as far as first ark is concerned). And if you think it doesn't exhibit it, then you're gonna have to be specific about what specifically is treated with insufficient knowledge, care or skill. I won't just accept a blanket judgement on this. Okay, then I doubt you'll accept it regardless. We are both familiar with the story, I've made my claims and you haven't accepted them. I think you need to stop and ask exactly what you want to get out of this discussion; if you just want to pin me down by making me dissect the minutia of the plot complete with formal references, and invalidate my argument if I can't do it, then there isn't any point in prolonging this. If we're not at least somewhat on the same page with regards to how a character with a background like Raphtalia should be handled, I don't think anything I outline will be able to bridge the divide. Shield Hero is obviously a casual fantasy story meant to be enjoyed as such; and that's perfectly fine. But when it starts to stray into more serious material, the quality of the writing is put to the test in terms of how much depth and nuance it can muster when handling these subjects. We have slavery; we know that Raphtalia watched her parents die; that she was captured by slavers; and that she was tortured by at least one former master. The story takes full advantage of the emotional impact of this backstory. But as soon as that purpose is fulfilled, it dispenses with them in favor of hurrying the plot along. Raphtalia is suddenly bold and assertive after only a week. Hell, in the episode that just aired she goes back to the same slaver that kept her chained in a cage to happily get the slave seal reapplied. Where is her resolve to protect children from a fate like her own? Isn't this slaver somewhat responsible for that? At the very least he treated her as subhuman. Point being, Raphtalia's character just isn't handled in a way that I can call believable. I don't really know how to argue that sensitive subjects need to be handled with nuance. To me, that's a point required to reach common ground in this discussion. |
SSL443Feb 7, 2019 1:38 AM
Kamiyan3991 said: SSL443 said: You answered your own question, the mods have better things to do. That's why the ignore thread function exists. There's nothing wrong with this thread rules-wise though. They don't want "score" threads but this one is actually not about the score. Some fanboys butthurt about it but nobody force them to read this. It's pretty clear this is a bait thread, and those are against the rules. Of course, you think anyone that points this out is a "butthurt fanboy" because you're a dumbass troll. |
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TsukuyomiREKT said: It's pretty clear this is a bait thread, and those are against the rules. Of course, you think anyone that points this out is a "butthurt fanboy" because you're a dumbass troll. You're gonna need a bigger bait. |
| @malMaxi The reason I'd consider the character development rushed is that it lacks any impact when things just 'happen'. In episode 1, we are introduced to a bland protagonist with no interesting or defining traits and are expected to care when everything goes against him - which doesn't work for me. I believe that you should be made to care for a character on the merit of their personality and not 'look at how bad this thing that happened to them is'. After Naofumi is betrayed, he completely changes personality and this is jarring to me. A more gradual change would better serve in establishing his character, especially considering his original personality was so ill-defined. In episode 2, we're introduced to Raphtalia who is said to be both mentally and physically ill. Having one short scene dedicated to handwaving an illness fails to highlight the severity of said disease (I have no idea how serious this disease was but, from previous discussions, I've been told it's more serious than the anime conveyed.) Though the actual disease isn't that important, it does miss the opportunity to show the MC actually caring for her more. This lessens the believability of their bond. The way they skip over the relationship development, in general, is just bad. Least importantly putting that little effort into adapting makes me care less, especially considering the only reason I watch anime is because it is animated and all of the benefits that provide. More importantly, it only gives a superficial impression of how their relationship is developing with little to no actual substance for me to get attached to or leave an impression on me. This means that when she overcomes her trauma it feels unearned and cheap. Then at the beginning of episode 3, she has a completely different personality and in the absence of any details from the time skip, I can't bring myself to accept such a rapid change after the previous developments didn't convince me either. Furthermore, the change actually makes her a worse character because most of her character traits have been replaced with ones that seem over-engineered to make her a waifu. Her devotion to Naofumi is her most defining character trait. Naofumi also gets very little character development past 'he's actually not as much of a dick as he's pretending to be'. Taken in a vacuum, episode 4 is actually well executed. However, given the poor execution of the past episodes, it fails at making an impact on me. It doesn't help that Naofumi's persecution seems more and more contrived and petty every episode - with 5 being the epitome of pettiness. Episode 5 again skips over the relationship development of a newly introduced character and the relationship of the other characters doesn't get expanded much upon apart from Raphtalia's sudden sexual attraction to Naofumi. Filo turning into a loli at the end of the episode makes me question the quality of the writing even more. Spear and Myne's behaviour is too juvenile and cheapens the experience. The best example what I'm trying to say would be the difference between hearing something on the news that doesn't affect you and feeling sad/happy about compared to the feeling of experiencing it yourself. The best media can give the illusion of having the experience but, Shield Hero completely fails at delivering this. |
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Whateverlife said: the whole isekai things is a mistake, start from SAO if that's what you mean Here. I'm going to teach you something good. SAO is NOT isekai. Isekai means "an other world". SAO is "locked in a game" for AINCRAD and "I play video games sometimes" every other arcs.. A virtual reality/video game. That's what SAO is. |
"Vaut mieux se suffire à soi que finir assoiffé dans le monde des apparences."  |
Tony_SansNom said: I believe being trapped in a game world falls under the umbrella of being in another world.Whateverlife said: the whole isekai things is a mistake, start from SAO if that's what you mean Here. I'm going to teach you something good. SAO is NOT isekai. Isekai means "an other world". SAO is "locked in a game" for AINCRAD and "I play video games sometimes" every other arcs.. A virtual reality/video game. That's what SAO is. |
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Demyx_IX said: Tony_SansNom said: I believe being trapped in a game world falls under the umbrella of being in another world.Here. I'm going to teach you something good. SAO is NOT isekai. Isekai means "an other world". SAO is "locked in a game" for AINCRAD and "I play video games sometimes" every other arcs.. A virtual reality/video game. That's what SAO is. Lulzlno. It isn't. Let's not pretend it is. You stay at the same place, at the same world, in the same reality. This isn't isekai. |
| "Vaut mieux se suffire à soi que finir assoiffé dans le monde des apparences." |
Tony_SansNom said: By this logic, a series where the MC goes into a coma, and has their conciousness transported to a new body in a different world, is not an isekai either.Demyx_IX said: I believe being trapped in a game world falls under the umbrella of being in another world. Lulzlno. It isn't. Let's not pretend it is. You stay at the same place, at the same world, in the same reality. This isn't isekai. |
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malMaxi said: I won't accept a blanket statement regardless, yes. If it was a more specific statement, rooted in the specifics of the show being discussed, then it might have had a chance. But so far i'm not seeing that. Then I don't know what you're looking for. It just seems obvious to me that the events of the 2nd episode are rushed because that's what the story needs. It's very glib, one-and-done, now on to the next thing. Everything in this series is arranged around cheap devices to manipulate the viewers emotions for maximum payoff of the MC vindication/revenge plot. Quite frankly the writing feels WORSE than a typical turn-your-brain-off popcorn action movie because of this. It almost feels like watching a propaganda video, what with all the over-the-top evil characters and situations that make them look bad and the MC look good, then rubs their faces in it. Maybe something with more nuance than a middle-schoolers head-trip. malMaxi said: The fact that this particular work of fiction introduces a plotdevice that allows this growth to happen in a week is not in itself a problem. If that was a problem, then we'd have to throw away all fairy tales that make fantastical stuff happen for plot convenience. Classics like Alladin would suddenly be "bad storytelling" because the genie is unrealistic. If it's a plot device of convenience, and one that compromises the quality of the story, then it's a problem. Not sure that the genie really does either both of those things. malMaxi said: Here is a simple literary example. We never get to actually see how exactly Count Monte-Kristo gets over his issues and gets back on his feet. All we know is that he escaped, found wealth and found someone who trusts in him. Does this make his story "unbelievable"? Or are you willing to go along with the notion just because some time has passed off-screen? Dante's character is shaped and developed significantly before the timeskip, which sets the stage for what comes after. malMaxi said: Again, your entire case is being reduced to basically time spent on relationships. You are of the opinion that good relationships cannot be built in less than 4 episodes because of ... what exactly? No, you're reducing my case to that. Obviously I'm just not good enough at explaining what my point of view is. Feels bad man. |
Kamiyan3991 said: There's nothing wrong with this thread rules-wise though. They don't want "score" threads but this one is actually not about the score. Some fanboys butthurt about it but nobody force them to read this. That's my point, I don't know why people ree when they can just hide the thread altogether. |
What's wrong with the title tho? Imho, the writing here is exceptionally bad, so I only pointed it out. I even bother to add extra bs from this show every week, since I find it quite amusing. I mean, it's written terribly even for an isekai, and that clearly deserves its own thread. Grimzey said: If your goal was to trigger the people who actually enjoy this show than congratulations, mission accomplished chief. You guys are too easy to trigger then. You can make the thread about Kaguya (I actually gave it frickin' 10) and, trust me, I couldn't care less. Though, I'd probably read it and maybe even agree with some points. Every show has some flaws and, believe me or not, the world won't fall apart only 'cause some people don't like your fav show. Grimzey said: I'm just tired of seeing these kind of bait threads on every popular seasonal anime. Can't be helped. Most popular anime are simply overhyped. Not all of them obvi. For an instance, go to Neverland forum. Do you see any "bait" threads on the first page? Me neither. Well, it obvi. can get much worse with time, but for now it's several times better than this generic isekai show. It comes down to good/bad writing. People won't complain about popular show (not as much at least) if that show is genuinely good. That's what I think. |
Kamiyan3991Feb 7, 2019 11:26 AM
SSL443 said: Kamiyan3991 said: There's nothing wrong with this thread rules-wise though. They don't want "score" threads but this one is actually not about the score. Some fanboys butthurt about it but nobody force them to read this. That's my point, I don't know why people ree when they can just hide the thread altogether. That doesn't really do anything since anytime someone posts in it, it'll show up in the recent posts and anime series discussions. |
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TsukuyomiREKT said: That doesn't really do anything since anytime someone posts in it, it'll show up in the recent posts and anime series discussions. Sounds like you'll have to tough it out then. |
Demyx_IX said: Tony_SansNom said: By this logic, a series where the MC goes into a coma, and has their conciousness transported to a new body in a different world, is not an isekai either.Lulzlno. It isn't. Let's not pretend it is. You stay at the same place, at the same world, in the same reality. This isn't isekai. But their consciousness is not brought to some other world. It's an illusion that is shown to their brain. |
| "Vaut mieux se suffire à soi que finir assoiffé dans le monde des apparences." |
SSL443 said: TsukuyomiREKT said: That doesn't really do anything since anytime someone posts in it, it'll show up in the recent posts and anime series discussions. Sounds like you'll have to tough it out then. Don't worry. I'll manage. |
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Kamiyan3991 said: Kaguya is a masterpiece. It is easily my favorite show of the season.You guys are too easy to trigger then. You can make the thread about Kaguya (I actually gave it frickin' 10) and, trust me, I couldn't care less. Though, I'd probably read it and maybe even agree with some points. Every show has some flaws and, believe me or not, the world won't fall apart only 'cause some people don't like your fav show. I, a manga and WN reader, also agree with your stand OP, Shield Hero's writing is one of the worst I have seen. It is so blatant that the writer just wants to win the favour of the otaku readers by incorporating every cliche that these people dig. Not to mention that the over victimization of the MC is cringeworthy. |
| "Life is too bitter, so coffee, at least should be sweet..." - Hikigaya Hachiman (Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatte Iru) |
I guess it depends on how seriously we are supposed to take the antagonists/villains. A shitty villain can ruin a story faster than a shitty hero. And at the very least in episode 5 Malty and the Spear are just being evil for evil's sake. And of course they would do so in the town the Shield hero is currently staying. |
Tony_SansNom said: Demyx_IX said: By this logic, a series where the MC goes into a coma, and has their conciousness transported to a new body in a different world, is not an isekai either. But their consciousness is not brought to some other world. It's an illusion that is shown to their brain. Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Yes it is. The "world" might not be real like the world they live in, but their consciousness is brought to the game's world, all 5 senses are present, they get hungry/tired in that world, so on and so forth. |
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mecegirl said: I guess it depends on how seriously we are supposed to take the antagonists/villains. A shitty villain can ruin a story faster than a shitty hero. And at the very least in episode 5 Malty and the Spear are just being evil for evil's sake. And of course they would do so in the town the Shield hero is currently staying. Don't forget that by introducing the Queen this episode, Malty's power as a villain is severely lowered, making her feel like a mix of that Team Rocket quality villain (in terms of achievements) and a main character from one of those juvenile delinquent/teen angst films like Rebel Without a Cause. |
| @malMaxi I think it would be important for you to understand how I approach critical criticism. If there is a mismatch between how I feel and what the anime is trying to make me feel, I then try to understand why it didn't make me feel that way. The most impactful emotional experiences I've had with media have been after a prolonged period of investment before I feel the need to 'care'. For example, Made in Abyss kept a sense of foreboding danger for 6 episodes while endearing me to the characters before it seemingly delivered on that sense of danger. This turned out to be a fakeout and reinforced the idea that 'the danger will always never be serious' in my mind. When it actually delivered on the tension it had been building for 10 episodes, it left me feeling empty for an hour afterwards. Similarly, my favourite anime, Steins;Gate spends half it's runtime getting you invested in the characters before hitting you with anything that would be particularly 'emotional'. My favourite anime from last year, Yagate Kimi ni Naru, also spends more time developing the intricacies of the main two characters personalities before trying to get me to feel anything. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that having a longer period to allow you to get you attached to the characters is better. There have been some exceptions to the rule, though, like Monogatari. In the case of Monogatari, however, each of the characters is so full of personality and nuance that gets displayed within the episode they are the focus of. After listening to two characters talk for 10-20 minutes straight, it manages to leave a strong impression on me. In addition, Shaft's amazing presentation skills enhance the 'experience'. Like I said in my first response, I think media should make you feel like you're experiencing the thing it's portraying. Example https://youtu.be/grPp0x18QtI In the same way, Redline is such a technical marvel that the style outways the minimal substance of the movie. https://sakugabooru.com/data/c00a1ecd1e74399a4589869f32a503e2.mp4 The closest example to Shield Hero I've watched would be Princess Kaguya. The visuals are beautiful and impactful by themselves but, every development is developed over the right course of time. Where Shield Hero pans over the still image of a scene, Princess Kaguya will animate that stage of development fully. Also, I should mention, I prefer 'fully realised' characters over 'realistic' characters. By that I mean, characters can be superficially realistic without the depth or nuance of a real person. |
DumpsterKingFeb 8, 2019 2:35 AM
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Grimzey said: Except Neverland had like 5 threads that were literally identical to this one in every way and they all got taken down in like a day, so you can guess why I'm wondering that this one is still running after 3 weeks when it's literally the same useless bait thread but for a different show. I see only 1 (one) locked topic, so I'm pretty sure you're mistaken. Grimzey said: Also I like how you totally just ignored the part where I said that I DON'T like Shield Hero. Why would I comment on that? It's not relevant to this thread. I wasn't even refering to you specifically. I meant it in general. Oh well, did that "you guys" part give you the wrong idea? Mb then. Grimzey said: Oh and btw, you can't just come to a title with a 8.50 score, uses a title like "This is the worst writing I've seen" and expect me to believe your goal wasn't to bait. Uhh, you've just said that I intentionally ignored some part of your post. But now you're intentionally ignoring some part of my thread? > This is the worst writing I've seen in a while < Grimzey said: You people should use your energy on something productive instead of bashing a show for three weeks straight when you could just drop it and move on. Why would I drop it? It's actually kind of entertaining for me. The writing here is exceptionally bad and it gets worse every week. Sometimes, you can watch something out of curiosity, just to see how bad it can get. Grimzey said: P.S : I respect you for your good taste on Kaguya tho, best show this season with Mob Psycho. Thanks man. |
| Are not humans supposed to hate demihumans? How can these same people be the link of Naofumi with the other people of the town? also this that all the adorable characters (or the majority) are next to the prota, does not encourage that same problem? "If they are not with me they are all enemies" |
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| Thread locked Very much the typical "Overrated anime" discussion. Mostly a bunch of baiting, flaming and people arguing endlessly. If you want to discuss anime you find overrated or underrated, please do so here: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1504768 No need to make a baity topic for it. |
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