| If I were a religious person, I would just redefine omnipotence to dodge the problem. In other words, there is absolutely nothing substantive about this debate. |
kcolrehs said: Then think of how much of that can be attributed to a supernatural God that has any effect on how we understand the empirical world. Then realize that effect is 0. Then realize that God effectively doesn't exist even if it does. Like that invisible massless hippo.katsucats said: Depending on the definition, you can prove that it's impossible to talk about God in a meaningful way, if God is logically contradictory. You can also disprove the effect of God for all intents and purposes. If A, therefore C. If A and B, therefore C. B is completely superfluous. You have to understand that when were talking about an omnipotent being and question its existance , its gonna take way more than simple logic to prove something like that exists or dosent exists. Solid evidence is pretty much the only thing. Remember that different things apply to different situations and perhaps omnipotent beings. Remember when we took off to space for the first time and we had to recallculate all of our math and physics because it dosent behave the same way as on planet earth. Thats it exactly that , think about how much of what we think we know dosen't apply in different planets and starts etc. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
Soverign said: A Christian friend of mine says he can lie but he absolutely won't. But this doesn't solve the omnipotence issue. I envision omnipotence has having the ability to lie, and having the ability to execute the act of lying. God doesn't have the ability of the latter if he absolutely won't. But that won't stop Christians from arguing that God still has the ability even if he won't, like children arguing that they have special powers but won't use them when anyone's around.Phendrus said: Anyway, first of all, some clarification: Christianity doesn't hold that God is truly omnipotent. There are certain things that He cannot do - lie, for example. Lol. I got into a neverending repeating argument about this with a Sunday School teacher when I was a kid. Like, why can't God lie? Because he can't? He can't or he won't? Both? How do we know though? He put it in the bible. Who wrote bible? |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: kcolrehs said: Then think of how much of that can be attributed to a supernatural God that has any effect on how we understand the empirical world. Then realize that effect is 0. Then realize that God effectively doesn't exist even if it does. Like that invisible massless hippo.You have to understand that when were talking about an omnipotent being and question its existance , its gonna take way more than simple logic to prove something like that exists or dosent exists. Solid evidence is pretty much the only thing. Remember that different things apply to different situations and perhaps omnipotent beings. Remember when we took off to space for the first time and we had to recallculate all of our math and physics because it dosent behave the same way as on planet earth. Thats it exactly that , think about how much of what we think we know dosen't apply in different planets and starts etc. Well him not existing has nothing to do with the ideas contribution to our society. Even if he dosent or does exist has no real effect on the religions that do believe and worship it. the people shape the world not god , but the people are lead by these things. Ideas and religions so the do have different values and importance in our society. |
kcolrehs said: what's your point? That's a completely different topic.katsucats said: Then think of how much of that can be attributed to a supernatural God that has any effect on how we understand the empirical world. Then realize that effect is 0. Then realize that God effectively doesn't exist even if it does. Like that invisible massless hippo. Well him not existing has nothing to do with the ideas contribution to our society. Even if he dosent or does exist has no real effect on the religions that do believe and worship it. the people shape the world not god , but the people are lead by these things. Ideas and religions so the do have different values and importance in our society. |
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
-Anonymous- said: Can God create a rock so heavy that he himself cannot lift it? If the answer is no then God cannot create said rock and hence is not omnipotent. If the answer is yes then God cannot lift the rock and hence he is not omnipotent. There are more fundamental critiques. For instance, God cannot be omnipotent and omnibenevolent as being able to do only good is a restriction on power. More fundamentally it's not possible to be omnipotent in space and time, since these are limiting dimensions. In geometry if we say two lines are in parallel they can never intersect in an infinite plane. Can a non-parallel parallel line be drawn? Not within the axioms of euclidean geometry, no. At the point where we're talking about omnipotence then we're already so far down the ontological chain that it doesn't bear scrutiny. This is addressed in the first letter of Genesis and in Exod. iii.14 with "I am". Trasimaco said: To speak of God phylosphycal you have to use Logic. God's Existence, the problem of evil and theodicy and God's Omnypotence have been refuted logically over and over again. If something cannot be explained by logic, then we cannot have knowledge about it (You are renouncing to consistency and truth so it's pointless to talk about paradox) and therefore we shouldn't even bother about it. The burden of the proof is on the person who makes the claim. I can't prove the Absolute exists, as it is above existence, but I can prove that you cannot reason without the Absolute. By ascribing to any logical postulate you necessarily concede this. |
Railey2 said: kcolrehs said: what's your point? That's a completely different topic.Well him not existing has nothing to do with the ideas contribution to our society. Even if he dosent or does exist has no real effect on the religions that do believe and worship it. the people shape the world not god , but the people are lead by these things. Ideas and religions so the do have different values and importance in our society. whats the point in joining a disscussion of two people and adding nothing to it ? |
kcolrehsMay 20, 2018 6:59 AM
kcolrehs said: I added something, namely a criticism of your comment. Let me repeat it: Your last comment wasn't a counterpoint, it was a completely off-topic remark that had nothing to do with anything katsu said, at all. Feel free to try again.Railey2 said: what's your point? That's a completely different topic. whats the point in joining a disscussion of two people and addint nothing to it ? I can say more too, if that wasn't enough. Look at your ending statement: "Ideas and religion have different values and importance in our society." What a pointless thing to say and that's supposed to be the essence of your reply? Not only is it off-topic, it's also meaningless. You might as well state that the sky is blue. Who isn't adding anything to the discussion? |
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
Railey2 said: I added something, namely a criticism of your comment. Let me repeat it: Your last comment wasn't a counterpoint, it was a completely off-topic remark that had nothing to do with anything katsu said, at all. Feel free to try again. I can say more too, if that wasn't enough. Look at your ending statement: "Ideas and religion have different values and importance in our society." What a pointless thing to say and that's supposed to be the essence of your reply? Not only is it off-topic, it's also meaningless. You might as well state that the sky is blue. Tell me, who isn't adding anything to the discussion? I understand that this is a forum and disscussion is free for all. But you should understand that in real life there are some sort of unspoken rules of how not to be a dick. And joining in a middle of a conversation telling me my point is bullshit, while youre in titled to think that , you added nothing to the disscussion and in my opinion are acting childish. Now to answer your critic of me not being on point. Its quite simple when a conversation is about omnipotence and its existance alot of people are quite aware in the 21 century that god as we understand does not exist. But completely fail to understand that even tho it dosen't exist there is historical and spiritual value in a being like that. You know the old saying if people believe in something hard enough it will come true ? When i was a bit younger a few years ago actually , i was very aggresive in my ways of arguing and disscusion. I was very direct and agresive in my opinions that god dosent exist , that left wing people are idiots and etc. ive met this one girl that completely changed the way i approach the topics of disscussion. The mother of this girl was an african imigrant and from childhood she was raped and tortured and her whole life became her escaping to religiuon and god. At first i thought she was just living a miserable life of denial but from talking and having long conversations with the woman i understand the value and importance of religion to some people. finding hope when theres none is incredibly important on planet earth. I just wanted to broaden the subject and explore the different aspects of the topic of religion. If you want to have a closed minded debate without the option of exploring the positive sides of belief and spirituality and how god exists to some people when theres no hope thats up to you. But thats not how progress is being made in a debate. Excuse me for my spelling mistakes , i tend to make quite alot of them. if ill have the time ill do an edit on them later on. Now let us have our conversation and move along or join with something well structured and intresting instead of your babling about me missing the point. Critisism is a very bad way of getting your point accross buddy. |
Note that I didn't say that your point is bullshit, I said that it's off-topic and redundant. You two were talking about something, and then, instead of replying to his point, you took the topic, tossed it, and started talking about something else. I didn't add anything to the discussion, but neither did you. Look at what you're doing, you're completely derailing the topic now. Religion can be greatly beneficial to some individuals, yes. Religion has cultural/historical/spiritual value, of course. It could turn out to be a nice conversation just how it potentially could turn out to be a nice conversation if we randomly started talking about Game of Thrones. It certainly could not turn out to be a discussion, because none of the statements you made are in the least controversial. As I said, the sky is blue. |
| "my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
Railey2 said: Note that I didn't say that your point is bullshit, I said that it's off-topic and redundant. You two were talking about something, and then, instead of replying to his point, you took the topic, tossed it, and started talking about something else. I didn't add anything to the discussion, but neither did you. Look at what you're doing, you're completely derailing the topic now. Religion can be greatly beneficial to some individuals, yes. Religion has cultural/historical/spiritual value, of course. It could turn out to be a nice conversation just how it potentially could turn out to be a nice conversation if we randomly started talking about Game of Thrones. It certainly could not turn out to be a discussion, because none of the statements you made are in the least controversial. As I said, the sky is blue. You still dont see why you just ruined a normal disscussion by butting in. Oh well, im not gonna respond to you anymore. Grow up The only person that has the right to end the disscussion is one of the people participating in it , youre just some random 3rd party attention seeker. go away |
Tentacle_Giant said: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus I think this idea would be a more sound ideological standpoint. Sort of expands the idea of the Omnipotence paradox. This is pretty much sums up my view. If God exists, I see no need to worship him. Unless of course he/she/it took the time out his day to tell me to, but even them I would like something out of it. |
| Before answering the question, i'm gonna say I think there's a God but i'm not following a religion like Muslims and Christians do. So, I think it doesn't prove that God do not exist but that God is not all powerful. And for me, I think like in all things, humans like to make everything big and so made God in their head a being with no end or limits. |
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