mansamugen2 said: original animated works that are artsy and don't conform to traditional anime artstyles and narrative niches don't get much recognition. Which hole have you been living in? Define recognition. Because it does not always equate to popularity. Naruto is popular and it'll never have the acclaim people give the Yuasa works. |
 You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
mansamugen2 said: movies like Angel's Egg, Patlabor 2 and Jinroh and just saw eyepatch wolf's video on redline and realized that original animated works that are artsy and don't conform to traditional anime artstyles and narrative niches don't get much recognition. Being different is not an inherently laudable achievement. Good shows always find a way to strike a balance. I also think you have a laughably narrow definition of "artsy". Anything that Yutaka Nakamura has worked on is chock-full of artistic value. |
mansamugen2 said: Was going thru Mamoru Oshii's movies like Angel's Egg, Patlabor 2 and Jinroh and just saw eyepatch wolf's video on redline and realized that original animated works that are artsy and don't conform to traditional anime artstyles and narrative niches don't get much recognition. From Oshii, to Kon, Otomo, Kawajiri, to Studio 4C's output outside of Berserk like Genius Party & Tekkonkinkreet, Old Gainax w/ Honneamise and NGE, Chiaki J Konaka's work, Yoshiura, Okiura, Takeshi Koike, arthouse fare doesnt seem to go far. Yuasa and Watanabe have recently found success with saru and mappa but does anyone know if there are more works right now in this vein that I'm missing or are we really in an era where this style of artsy fare rarely gets direct financial investment. what hole have you been living under, oshii, kon and kawajiri(if we're refering to yoshiaki) are pretty popular and niche af sure, but def not obscure, |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| what, lot of them is in fact popular... if you want some actual obsecure artsy, search some short experimental video... fighting for the real obsecure shows! |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Ken-chan to Bouen kazoku will never get the recognition it deserves ;-; its a better art film than kimi no na wa tbh fam https://myanimelist.net/anime/35243/Ken-chan_to_Bouen_kazoku |
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No mention of Kanashimi no Belladona in an arthouse thread = sad Clebardman |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
| Those aren't that obscure though, and have gotten recognition, maybe not in amount of views, but in score and fandom. |
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| I mean, arthouse is inherently experimental and thus inaccessible to mass audiences. It comes with the territory. Although I'd say that anime actually has a better track record of weird artsy things becoming hits, nge and Bakemonogatari are some of the best selling tv anime ever and they are pretty fucking weird. Actually i just noticed you put nge in your examples. I'm not sure if you know, but nge is still to this day the best selling tv anime ever, at least in home media sales. |
GoldNautilus said: I mean, arthouse is inherently experimental and thus inaccessible to mass audiences. It comes with the territory. Although I'd say that anime actually has a better track record of weird artsy things becoming hits, nge and Bakemonogatari are some of the best selling tv anime ever and they are pretty fucking weird. Actually i just noticed you put nge in your examples. I'm not sure if you know, but nge is still to this day the best selling tv anime ever, at least in home media sales. Isn't it surpassed by Crayon shin-chan or some other super long running super popular children show? I though it was 2nd last time I checked, behind a 1k+ eps show or something. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| No, I don't think so, when you're setting to create a "high-brow" anime, you're not expecting to have a big commercial success, although by chance that can happen, but often the case is that it's not, simply because the target audience is already defined and it's not meant to be consumed as general populace. And, as another user said, it's fairly experimental, just like with fine dining restaurants, which serve experimental food for a lot of money. ** Edit; so many typos and omissions -.- |
ourielAug 29, 2017 11:52 AM
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| A better and more pointed question: If it was highly commercially successful, would it still be accepted as arthouse? |
| That's sort of the nature of arthouse anime - they don't appeal to most people, so they'll generally stay in relative obscurity, appreciated by only those who are willing to delve deep enough into the anime medium to find them. Speaking of Angel's Egg, I feel like I'm one of the only people who thinks it's better than Ghost in the Shell. Really underrated film. |
Synoptic93Sep 1, 2017 3:47 PM
| Yes, that's the point of arthouse. Not for everyone. |
mansamugen2 said: le_halfhand_easy said: Which hole have you been living in? Define recognition. Because it does not always equate to popularity. Naruto is popular and it'll never have the acclaim people give the Yuasa works. either i did not word my opening post too well or you're misinterpreting, im thinking its the latter. i was super tired, im not talking at all about critical acclaim: im talking about commercial success. i dont know if you're the one who's living in a hole but last i check none of the artists i mention get major commercial success in comparison to the latest shonen or action shows du jour (which i like btw if ppl here are assuming im elitist or something). watanabe's work only suceeded in the West, champloo and bebop had mininal ratings in japan. NGE and Akira have both had crossover success on both sides but Oshii's first Gits film only did well because the overseas market latched onto it. i'm not talking critical reception or respect within anime circles im talking about mainstream japan and west, ppl who don't watch anime all the time. when ppl think anime movies, the average person stops at Ghibli (maybe they know Gits or Akira). dont try to tell me you've heard average folk recognizing tekkonkinkreet, jinroh, paranoia agent, lain and angel's egg like they do naruto/AoT or something because that simply doesn't happen. to the person who mentioned belladonna, yeah i still have to see belladonna i forgot to mention it. Then you and I don't see eye to eye on the meaning of the word recognition as I've always equated it with acclaim especially in the context of your initial post. That's the importance of clearly defining a term open to plenty of interpretation. |
You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
| To answer the NGE sales question, it's unknown whether NGE is the absolute best selling anime ever due to different selling methods at the time, all we know is that it indeed made a lot of money and was very popular. However since the exact amount can't be known for sure, it's not typically given the title of best selling. And yeah, the point of arthouse shows it that they are experimental and weird, thus it's going to be harder for these shows to achieve commercial success. Sometimes they do. Most of the time they won't. It doesn't matter that much either since these works aren't typically aiming to have commercial success anyways. |
| every single one of my forum posts is dumb and invalid except for 1, I don't claim them it was a different person it was all fake |
mansamugen2 said: DirtyYogurt said: Being different is not an inherently laudable achievement. Good shows always find a way to strike a balance. I also think you have a laughably narrow definition of "artsy". Anything that Yutaka Nakamura has worked on is chock-full of artistic value. ive seen sword of the stranger and it totally fits here i was just giving examples i cant put every single movie/OVA/tv/short here i'll obviously forget some things, im not trying to disregard more conventional shows. i like a lot of conventional stuff. all im saying is that commercially they dont get much success. "artsy" is just a label that makes it easier for ppl to understand what type of anime im talking about, i never said i agreed to a definition for "artsy" i just couldnt think of another word that communicated what type of anime i was referring to. if you have a better one be my guest but dont misinterpret. and i'd disagree being different and always searching for innovation is how things don't stagnate in art. all your favorite art originally came from something that was once considered innovative and different so that's where the value in being original comes from. you don't have to agree but your response seems like you're assuming elitism and responding to it here or something when that was not my intention. I didn't say being different doesn't have value, I just said that the value is not inherent in being different. You don't get brownie points just for showing up, regardless of what you show up with. And your entire topic is lamenting that art doesn't get funded or have mainstream appeal. My counter isn't that you didn't list them, it's that plenty of fantastic art ends up in some of the most famous and best funded anime out there, it's just not the pretentious brand of artsy you value. |
| If they weren't in obscurity I wouldn't know where to look for them :>. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Arthouse cinema rarely becomes mainstream. The best it can aim for is be highly influential, and have a mainstream work with commercial appeal attract a lot of people to it. These works by their nature are harder to 'get', they're more experimental and less immediate. Only those who find joy in exploring the art form seek them. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| I honestly hope that "arthouse" Anime never becomes popular, because I despise them. |
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Seiya said: I honestly hope that "arthouse" Anime never becomes popular, because I despise them. You're saying you can't get down to Paranoia Agent? Shit kills in the club. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
dryrose said: TheBrainintheJar said: Arthouse cinema rarely becomes mainstream. The best it can aim for is be highly influential, and have a mainstream work with commercial appeal attract a lot of people to it. These works by their nature are harder to 'get', they're more experimental and less immediate. Only those who find joy in exploring the art form seek them. I agree. Arthouse is almost synonymous with obscurity. They were never made to be commercially successful. They were made for a specific audience, thats why they will never get commercial success. Its mostly never mainstream, yes it can be loved by a lot, but that doesnt make it mainstream. mansamugen2 said: a person can like fairy tail and prison school for instance but also enjoy angel's egg or genius party. i dont know what ppl you come accross irl or on the net but the audiences of those works are not mutually exclusive. thing is im not worried about the commericial performance of a fairy tail because mashima's doing great right now lol, there's not much discussion material but something like this is more interesting because we could be talking about the inner workings of what the industry deems "commercially viable" or not. I like prison school and angel's egg lol. Well commercial, or mainstream, pieces are made with the intention to appeal to the widest audience (so they can make money) Mainstream films are literally vying for mainstream audiences, its almost a competition among studios. With arthouse films, its never like that. Directors usually have an idea, then they conceptualize it, and that's it. They try their best to get it done, with little or no regard to how many will watch it. Their target audience is quality over quantity Anyway, arthouse films dont have a single genre. Just because the art is perfect doesnt mean its arthouse. I think its more on the intent of the director It can be loved by a lot but it's hard to get there, and it demands a lot of luck. It's like how Skrillex suddenly blew up although his genre remains quite underground. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Arthouse works take a bit more active investment to appreciate, and can be really hard to market to the general public for numerous reasons. That would be my reasoning for the difficulty. |
"I'd take rampant lesbianism over nuclear armageddon or a supervolcano any day." ~nikiforova |
TheBrainintheJar said: Seiya said: I honestly hope that "arthouse" Anime never becomes popular, because I despise them. You're saying you can't get down to Paranoia Agent? Shit kills in the club. There's no way I would ever watch something like Paranoia Agent. It was made by Satoshi Kon, and everything he was involved in is not worth watching. |
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Seiya said: There's no way I would ever watch something like Paranoia Agent. It was made by Satoshi Kon, and everything he was involved in is not worth watching. You're missing out on great things, and it's far easier to digest than something like Serial Experiments Lain. InsaneLeader13 said: Arthouse works take a bit more active investment to appreciate, and can be really hard to market to the general public for numerous reasons. That would be my reasoning for the difficulty. I think it also has to do with arthouse pieces using a diverse, or more obscure pool of resources to draw from. Watch Inception and it's easy to trace its influence. Watch Eraserhead, and what is it influenced by? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
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