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Poll: Kaiji Episode 22 Discussion


#1
Mar 4, 2008 5:16 PM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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This episode was alright. I already knew that Kaiji was going to go with slave, so I sat through that monologue. The highlight of this episode, though, was definately the Tonegawaque. Grilled to perfection! I'm looking forward to seeing how Kaiji takes down the Chairman.
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#2
Mar 4, 2008 10:08 PM

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omg hahaha 'Tonegawaque' so horrible but so funny whyy.
that part was easily the most disgusting thing i've ever seen animated.
 
#3
Mar 4, 2008 11:27 PM

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I actually felt bad for tonegawa D: also KAIJI WHY CANT YOU JUST TAKE THE MONEY AND GO! YOU'RE NOT AKAGI!!!
 
#4
Mar 5, 2008 7:11 AM

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WOAH!! They actually did it?! I didn't know you could broadcast this kind of stuff on TV.. (If they can do this, I wonder why they had to cut out the scene where Kaiji gets branded with hot iron at the end of the Restricted RPS arc...)

Anyway, again an awesome episode - I really loved the interplay between Kaiji and Tonegawa now that Kaiji had finally got the upper hand. The irony in his voice when he said those priceless lines was simply great. Even though it was obvious that Kaiji would win (hey, it'd be the end of the show if he didn't:) - I really liked how he used Tonegawa's personality against him to win the gamble - Kaiji sure has grown a lot since he was tricked by Funai back in episode 2! :)

With that being said, Tonegawa really went out like a man didn't he..! I'm glad that they didn't have to cut this scene out. Without it, all the stuff Tonegawa condescendingly says about the debtors' way of life in previous episodes would have count for zilch if the anime didn't in some way show that he is top-class. This form of torture device kind of stems from the Japanese philosophy of hara-kiri I guess..

On a more random note - I love the old chairman's maniacal laugh - he's either the freakiest character of all time or the most moe, I just can't decide! orz ;)

With Kaiji's victory you would think his crazy night would be over but Kaiji gets another flash of inspiration where any sane person would be more worried about GETTING TO A FUCKING HOSPITAL!! ;)
 
#5
Mar 5, 2008 3:16 PM

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bigjig said:
With Kaiji's victory you would think his crazy night would be over but Kaiji gets another flash of inspiration where any sane person would be more worried about GETTING TO A FUCKING HOSPITAL!! ;)


Haha yeah Kaiji is insane and the guy that pulled out a few tissues to stop the bleeding was pretty funny too.

Had to watch the episode, my japanese isn't the greatest but I got most of everything and I've gotta say it was a nice end to e-card and a nice beginning to another crazy Kaiji scheme.
 
#6
Mar 6, 2008 2:18 PM
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YES!! triad relased fast lol.. anyways d.l now.
lol.. can't wait for his idea from a tissue box..
Modified by lecor, Mar 6, 2008 8:35 PM
 
#7
Mar 6, 2008 3:43 PM

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Awesome episode.
Kaiji's monologue at the start was great... but damn that Roasting Kneeling must be the most painful thing ever, and Tonegawa forced himself to do it for 12 seconds, that's insane. Although i think Tonegawa was an asshole, i've always respected him somewhat, kinda like Kaiji did, but seeing him do that for 12 seconds brought that respect to a whole different level.... and that chairman pisses me off so much... Can't wait to see how Kaiji will pwn him.
 
#8
Mar 6, 2008 3:50 PM

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Nice episode, I can't wait to see what kind of plan Kaiji though of.

 
#9
Mar 6, 2008 4:09 PM

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That episode made me happy then made me want to puke then made me happy again.


 
Mar 6, 2008 4:55 PM

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I wonder what the hell the tissue box inspired him to do.
 
Mar 6, 2008 5:22 PM

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INSAAAAAAANEEEEEEEE

Oh, and the person who voted 4 should get on their knees and apologize for 10 seconds, if you know what I mean.
Modified by Neverender, Mar 6, 2008 5:28 PM
 
Mar 6, 2008 5:48 PM

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OMG.

seriously. changed kaiji to 9/10 to 10/10 xD

poor tonegawa. he deserved it but that was so cruel.
can't 28 for the next ep !!
 
Mar 6, 2008 7:20 PM

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Wow, Kaiji is a freaking trooper. I would have hauled ass after I won my money.

But seriously, how does stepping on a tissue box give you a killer idea. Guess we'll find out next week.. O.o





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Mar 6, 2008 8:28 PM

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I get the distinct impression that we haven't seen the last of the Roasting Kneeling game. (shudder, twitch)
 
Mar 6, 2008 10:28 PM

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Only Kaiji would be inspired by a crushed tissue box..lmao
 
Mar 6, 2008 10:57 PM

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Maybe he saw it as a metaphor of crushing the entire "company", just like you crush a tissue box by stepping on it.
 
Mar 6, 2008 11:05 PM

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Tonegawa is GAR!

Good episode made me go "O=" all the way. Roasting Kneeling >.< ahhhh.
 
Mar 7, 2008 3:45 AM

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torture porn anyone?

it was good to see that Kaiji has some hope of replacing his ear...I'm glad to see that they will take one final crack at toppeling the boss.
 
Mar 7, 2008 4:35 AM

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Tonegawa scene was intense and made me feel somewhat sorry for him.

Kaiji getting inspiration in a tissue box? Well there is something there but i havn't though of anything as genious to beat the Chairman.
 
Mar 7, 2008 4:51 AM

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This episode was once again pretty enjoyable!
 
Mar 7, 2008 5:07 AM

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Jaw dropping awesomeness. I can't believe they made me feel sorry for Tonegawa. But damn! That guy has BALLS! Now go Kaiji! Take down that senile disturbing chairman!
 
Mar 7, 2008 9:22 AM

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I really think this was one of the best episodes. It gave a lot of dimension to the characters of Tonegawa and Kaiji.

I think the dialogue and monologues are the best part of the whole show. I do not understand how anyone could watch the raws without Japanese knowledge.
 
Mar 7, 2008 2:51 PM
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Phew, watched 21 and 22 back-to-back. Man that was intense, but a fitting ending for E-card. The E stands for Epic it seems. :D
Poor Tonegawa... Watching him fry made me kinda hungry though. o.O Lol no, not really. xP

Also I expected someone to make a masturbation joke because of the tissue box, but I'm glad no one did. ^_^"
 
Mar 7, 2008 3:44 PM

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Even though Tonegawa had his forehead BBQ’ed, he took it like a man. I can’t wait to see what Kaiji’s final crazy scheme will be.
 
Mar 7, 2008 6:16 PM
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Btw, putting his ear on ice wasn't really the best idea.

If it gets frozen it'll kill the tissue...


And wow wow, Tonegawa was :o

 
Mar 7, 2008 6:49 PM

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Kaiji once again surprises me and manages to top itself again and again. This episode was insane and seeing Tonegawa roast like that was one of the most painful things I've ever seen in anime. I was biting my finger while watching it. They somehow managed to make me feel sorry for Tonegawa.

The chairman is a real jerk and I can't wait to see Kaiji take him down.

 
Mar 7, 2008 7:27 PM

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Fucking amazing. Each episode just seems to top the one before. This series is just EPIC.

I thought that Kaiji must have secretly marked the Slave card along with the other 2 but no, it was even more clever. Kaiji is a genius. I can't wait to see what he comes up with from the crushed tissue box...!!

I loved the exchange between him & Tonegawa, and also the chairman's comments on apologies & sincerity. Fukumoto's philosophy is one of the strongest parts of all his works, and I love how it all comes out through gambling, of all things.

Neverender said:
Oh, and the person who voted 4 should get on their knees and apologize for 10 seconds, if you know what I mean.


lol, YES.
 
Mar 8, 2008 9:03 AM

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i actually felt bad for tonegawa....... but he took it like a man. respect!!!

tissue box raffle should be really intense

ZOWA ZOWA cant wait for the last 4 episodes!
 
Mar 8, 2008 4:57 PM

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Twelve seconds. Twelve.

Tonegawa is epic.
 
Mar 8, 2008 6:05 PM

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Karura said:
I wonder what the hell the tissue box inspired him to do.


Static said:
Kaiji getting inspiration in a tissue box? Well there is something there but i havn't though of anything as genious to beat the Chairman.




KINGOFGAMES555 said:
Also: Sooo, I'm guessing that the idea Kaiji had at the end of the episode is connected to the mysterious tissue box raffle. SO, WHAT IS IT?




BadSeafood said:
Twelve seconds. Twelve.

Tonegawa is epic.


Tonegawa certainly proves he is GAR in this ep.



Fukumoto's writing skills and ability to dramatize are godly. He could make a game of UNO gripping and intense.



Or Jenga.





Kudos to the animation studio adapting the series as well. They're doing a most excellent job.
Modified by Akagi, Mar 10, 2008 1:49 AM
 
Mar 9, 2008 11:34 AM
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Tonegawa ain't epic. Using that word for him puts everything and everyone else that's described with this word to shame. For what he's done he should've been killed. Fucking asshole.

Looking forward to the next episode.

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Mar 9, 2008 5:24 PM

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cyruz said:
Tonegawa ain't epic. Using that word for him puts everything and everyone else that's described with this word to shame. For what he's done he should've been killed. Fucking asshole.

Looking forward to the next episode.


Huh? Just what DID Tonegawa do?.. Sure he talks down to the debtors and plays cheap tricks (electricity etc.). But he didn't FORCE anybody to walk across the beam against their will. He didn't FORCE anybody to board the ESPOIR. And even in E-Card Kaiji is not FORCED to bet his ear or anything (Kaiji is given a CHOICE. He can still bet 2 mm at a time and still be safe)

And when he does lose he doesn't bitch about it, he shuts up and takes what is coming to him like a man - and that's pretty epic in my book. There ain't to many people who could take 12 seconds on that thing.
 
Mar 9, 2008 5:28 PM

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I agree with cyruz. The fact that Tonegawa was able to do the kneeling doesn't change the fact that he scoffed at Ishida's death. He was a willing accomplice the the Chairman's evil, and that's just as bad (that's why I rated this ep a 4). Talent and grit used for evil is still evil. And while he didn't force the debtors down the bridge, he really pressured them too much to have given them a choice.
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Mar 9, 2008 7:06 PM

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Torisunanohokori said:
I agree with cyruz. The fact that Tonegawa was able to do the kneeling doesn't change the fact that he scoffed at Ishida's death. He was a willing accomplice the the Chairman's evil, and that's just as bad (that's why I rated this ep a 4). Talent and grit used for evil is still evil. And while he didn't force the debtors down the bridge, he really pressured them too much to have given them a choice.


I don't get it. You rated this episode a 4... because you think Tonegawa got off easy..?
 
Mar 9, 2008 7:24 PM

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Epic is a word that gets tossed around a lot these days. There is such a thing as the epic villain, you know. Tonegawa is the classic dragon character, a cool customer, complete with appropriately dark social commentary. But pushing all that to the side of the desk, no one's ever managed to stand the full 10 seconds under their own power. Tonegawa took it like a man, the same penalty he saw countless others pay before him, and he did what they didn't; held his own. And for longer than necessary. And I'm pretty sure the chairman gets his kicks off his guests' failure to do so, so not only did Tonegawa "Succeed," he denied the chairman his true pleasure.

His scene in episode 22 redeemed him his failure in episode 19 (cheating and all). Or more accurately, the balanced out, and now he's just the Dragon again.

He was a horrible human being, but a clever character and a good antagonist for Kaiji to topple. And for that, I salute him.

Of course, Ishida is more awesome, but that's a topic for another day.
 
Mar 9, 2008 9:25 PM

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@BadSeafood: Yes, Yes, Yes! I couldn't have said it better myself! I mean, Ishida - no ones going to argue with that, but I'm still saluting Tonegawa too. Just one point though...

BadSeafood said:

His scene in episode 22 redeemed him his failure in episode 19 (cheating and all). Or more accurately, the balanced out, and now he's just the Dragon again.


Really? I thought Tonegawa was more of a dragon because he was cheating. I mean, think about it - he came up with a near fool proof way to cheat against Kaiji and the diversion tactics he used was near perfect in convincing Kaiji into believing that he wasn't cheating (setting up E-card for 12 games, giving Kaiji the choice of either the eye drill or the ear drill, setting up the time limit for 5 mins.) I thought this took real skill. I guess it is a matter for opinion, but for me, rather than seeing his cheating tactics as 'dirty', I was quite impressed how he took the necessary steps to win. (Just like you need to do in life? - Fail to prepare, prepare to fail, or so they say)

Unfortunately for him he underestimated Kaiji which left him open for Kaiji's counter-attack:) (and to me that was his real failure)

 
Mar 9, 2008 10:56 PM

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Successful cheating actually takes a strong degree of skill. And E-Card isn't along the lines of writing all the test answers on the palm of your hand. I acknowledge that, and Tonegawa was an excellent showman to pull it all off (not unlike Endou in episodes 1 and 10). But a part of me is still disappointed that Tonegawa didn't actually bother to capitalize on his ability to read human nature. It felt like a step down, after all that talk about the psyche and emotions, though that discussion of his was just as much a tactical move on his part as any skilled playing. He came off as much more imposing when you thought he could tell Kaiji's cards by his breath and gestures alone. But when you have a cheating ploy, and an expensive one at that, it becomes a crutch if spotted, and easily crippled. But then again, in a couple infamous games, cheating is all how you play the game.

Doesn't matter. Tonegawa is still an awesome villain, though from the moment he said "Because the slave has nothing to lose, it can kill the emperor," he should have been on his guard.
 
Mar 10, 2008 3:04 AM

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Tonegawa isn't epic. C'mon 12 seconds of fried Tonegawa isn't enough to 20 episodes of deception and cheating.
 
Mar 10, 2008 4:11 AM

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Static said:
Tonegawa isn't epic. C'mon 12 seconds of fried Tonegawa isn't enough to 20 episodes of deception and cheating.


I know what you guys are saying - I mean he is a condescending prick, but he isn't without his honor. I mean to me guys like Andou and Furuhata are much bigger assholes than Tonegawa simply because they feign friendship, only to stab Kaiji in the back once they are done taking. Certainly Tonegawa taking pleasure in watching people like Ishida and Sahara die is evil, but he doesn't try to hide that fact.

He is an asshole for cutting the electricity half way through and not tell anyone, but as I said before everyone agreed to walk across the beam with the electricity ON. At least he tells everyone that there is electricity running through it BEFORE they stepped on the beam.

I mean, he had the drill in Kaiji's ear. When he found out that he lost he could have just pushed the button to kill Kaiji out of spite (which is something I'm guessing someone like Andou or Furuhata would have done), but he doesn't. He is an asshole but he also is a very skilled practitioner, and he's got one helluva backbone.
Modified by bigjig, Mar 10, 2008 5:50 AM
 
Mar 10, 2008 8:56 PM

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Andou and Furuhata were acting out of survival instinct. Tonegawa acted out of condesension. And considering that he basically had no other alternative (forced kneeling would have taken even longer), it sort of dampens the moment. I agree with Kaiji that Tonegawa wasn't public enemy #1, but Tonegawa deserved what he got, just for a different reason than the chairman's humiliation/pain fetish.
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Mar 11, 2008 3:07 PM
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I think this was the enjoyable episode for me......actually I think this was the best episode of Kaiji yet...and it didn't even have any gambling yet.

The speech the Chairman made about apologies was epic.
 
Mar 11, 2008 5:20 PM

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Torisunanohokori said:
Andou and Furuhata were acting out of survival instinct.


I definitely think that this is a matter for contention. I agree that Andou and Furuhata were certainly acting in part out of survival instinct (reducing their debts in the outside world). But I think that their decision to backstab Kaiji was made a lot more due to plan profiteering than anything else.

I mean, think about it, if they were acting purely out of survival instinct, why didn't they use their brains a bit more to help out Kaiji when they were really trying to survive - on the gambling floor? Don't you think it was a LITTLE bit weird how they only start to use their brains and scheme once they survived the gamble?
 
Mar 19, 2008 10:40 PM

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One word: Ow.

I just pretty saw episode 22 half an hour ago and damn, I couldn't help but to cover my mouth with one hand as it just stood there open as Tonegawa took all of his pride and simply knelt on that hellish device for 12 seconds. Like Kaiji said, he really is first-rate, having withstood that, it pretty much kept me on the edge of my seat.

Edit: Sizzle! Sizzle! Sizzle!
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Mar 27, 2008 11:27 AM

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Whoa, Tonegawa being grilled almost made me feel sorry for him.
Also, I wonder what kind of idea someone can have, just by stepping on a tissue box =P
 
Apr 4, 2008 10:27 AM

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Maybe it was explained yet, but what's bugging me really hard is why can those guys walk again?

They all fell down from about 8 meters. They should not be able to walk like nothing happened.
 
Oct 28, 2008 3:58 AM

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Woah, that was crazy that Tonegawa grilled himself.
 
Feb 9, 2009 4:04 PM

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TAKE THE MONEY KAIJI AND LEAVE DAMMIT...
 
May 3, 2009 5:34 AM

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One of the most painful episodes I've EVER seen in anime. Totally crazy! Each episode tops the one before it! Each arc is more intense than the last! Yet so far, 2 people have voted only ok for this episode.

Tonegawa is totally in a class of his own. His own pride, his own honor, his own dignity. Truly a man above others. He earned my utmost Respect with his apology in this episode.

It's a pity this show is not more mainstream. Whether due to it's artwork or other factors, those who don't watch this series are really losing out on one of the most intense series in anime.
Modified by TYSM, May 4, 2009 6:48 AM
 
May 3, 2009 10:32 PM

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That was sick :(
 
Jun 6, 2009 3:03 AM
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Kaiji, you're a fucking genius but just go, man. Go. Leave and go to the hospital. That fact that he has the money is a miracle.

Even though the chairman is the devil, I kind of agree with him with the sincere apology thing. I don't approve of human BBQ, though.

One of the best episodes.
 
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