Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers (light novel)
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Equitum said: black1blade said: I do agree that Adlet's thought pattern isn't very logical. But you know, lateral thinking ftw. I don't even care, he has so much respect from me at this point. Well if he had gone through it totally logically he would be dead. The speculation about the 8th and about the fort guy where quite big leaps in logic but he had to come up with a theory. He knew he wasn't the 7th so he had to provide an explanation as to potentially how it happened. In fact that is an incredibly logical action even if the actual steps to get there weren't logical. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Well as the strongest man in the world you need strength, wisdom and luck and I guess he had a might dose of luck. Was a pretty enjoyable episode overall despite the obvious cliffhanger. Also it is kinda neat that these seemingly minor things like the sun saint missing, drop in temperature and excess heat seem like lore or idle chat but fitted in nicely. |
CookingPriest said: mira-nyan said: You mean the mystery being solved right at the start, rite? >.> But barrier guidelines being fake was not the answer to the mystery it was a vital clue. THe mystery was on who activated the barrier. ANd setting up clear parameters of hte mystery is tthe FIRST thing mystery has to do. Ah, I get what you mean now. There weren't clues on that in the first episode, were there? That said, we still didn't know whether the barrier was activated when they were messing with the temple thingies. >.> You should really cut down on the rage, tho. Dem capital letters are coming out of no where. Not that there are any real 'rules' for any genre. Apart from having a mystery, the rest is just personal preference. I mean, I can put hentai in shonen and call it seinen. I can also put yaoi is shoujo and call it josei. There are no 'first things' of being a mystery, apart for some random guy putting up some random rules that are, really, just his opinions. Like Frrrrosty is saying, the author isn't using the thing that 'typical' mysteries use. He's giving us new info over new info - eventually leading us to the truth, while making us think. |
mira-pyonSep 12, 2015 3:23 PM
The sun is a deadly laser |
skudoops said: apokaliz500 said: Like I said, the only thing lacking was the viwer's science knowledge about how fog is created. Not really....many of adlets theories were shut down by knowledge not available to the view. His defense about someone infiltrating, his defense about a second barrier, his defense of flamie. Many of the accusations at the beginning were levied against him using knowledge we did not have. The only theories that were shutdown where the ones had to do with actual mechanics of how the barrier works or how someone could have been opened the door before him. That's it. You don't need to know any of that to come up with his theory beyond that fact a Saint of Fog can't produced a barrier on this scale and that nobody could have entered the temple before Adlet. So this left the very real possibility of there being a fake fog (which Adlet brings up), and everyone being fed false information by Lauren since his model didn't match the altar that was the temple which Adlet brings up in episode 9. Rest just requires you to gone back into earlier episodes looking at the clues, like Riura missing, her being the Saint of Sun and the sudden heat before the trap was spong. It's a brilliant but simple plan that had facts for you slve but left enough room inpretation. Just because you were wrong doesn't make bad, in fact if I loved when mystery authors surpass my expectations in a logical manner. |
Iron_MawSep 12, 2015 3:38 PM
CookingPriest said: No, that's bad writing shows like code geass rely on. It makes it impossible for the viewer to solve it because solving it relies on info you DONT have. Info that is provided literally within the same episode(or near the same episode) that the answer is given out by MC. They use new info to help you solve it on your own. That's what debunking 'developing theories' entails. The author is literally guiding you to the answer. An episode in between is a pretty big gap though, (a lot more than 20 minutes before the revelations) |
| All the actually required information is there it's just that there are no guidelines on how to construct it. There was probably no way of being able to completely work out the mystery but it was obvious the saint of sun would be involved somehow. I doubt it's down to the writer coming up with things as he goes along like in code geass. The clues are just spread out through out. It would say it would have been possible to work it out last week so before the reveal which means that it wasn't an asspull. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| I think, unlike some other mysteries, the writer wants us to formulate the same incorrect hypothesis as Adlet and then slowly explain while they are incorrect by revealing new information which can then lead us to the true solution. Seems to me like some just don't enjoy this style of writing, but saying it's bad because it doesn't conform to a more typical system is quite silly tbh. |
| 5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
| I think this series will probably be better to marathon. All the information will be fresh in your head that way through out. I think it is better structured in the LN because you know from the start that there is a 7th. That said the twist about the 7th was awesome in the anime and how they changed the OP song then animation was great. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| At this point I would just toss a coin and call between Maura and Nach~ But I'm almost sure it's Maura, Nach is just easy to manipulate. But who could have knew where the Saint of the Sun was living before she was kidnapped? only Maura could knew about it. |
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geralt said: I think, unlike some other mysteries, the writer wants us to formulate the same incorrect hypothesis as Adlet and then slowly explain while they are incorrect by revealing new information which can then lead us to the true solution. Seems to me like some just don't enjoy this style of writing, but saying it's bad because it doesn't conform to a certain style is quite silly tbh. This^ Not that I think Adlet's hypo is wrong, tho. Gotta follow that MC, can't have my mind being blown by dem plot twists. I must be the only one still thinking that the seventh isn't a bad guy. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| I think it's CP's fate (see what I did there) to be ganged up on XD. Thing is your not going to sway anyone like you did with UBW :p. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
geralt said: I think, unlike some other mysteries, the writer wants us to formulate the same incorrect hypothesis as Adlet and then slowly explain while they are incorrect by revealing new information which can then lead us to the true solution. Seems to me like some just don't enjoy this style of writing, but saying it's bad because it doesn't conform to a more typical system is quite silly tbh. |
CookingPriest said: Zefyris said: So I'm going to ask those complaining that they could not find out because they were lacking some clues what exactly were they still lacking. Hmm? I'm waiting. There was everything. There was no new info needed to make them fit together. No asspull. The info about how barriers work. Any info that wasn't given by two different person can be a lie in a detective story. The author was even kind enough to point that fact out two episodes ago. You didn't pick up, but it was there. Throwing out every pre-set parameter like barrier activation, how it is done, when it happened, etc. . You know, the trick of a closed room mystery is exactly that half of the time :the author makes the characters and viewer believe that the crime happened when the room was closed, whereas it either happened before or after that time. This is a very very classic way to do a mystery. If you refuse the fact that you were lead to believe a wrong 'when" as being a proper detective story trick, then you refuse some of the greatest closed chamber mystery in modern and classic literature. So the only thing is the "how" that you were lied about. Yes, so what? There was a lot of foreshadowing. Randomly finding Riura's body in the middle of huge forest because plot required it for explanation. It wasn't random. That was the most logical place, as I explained in my post above. The twist of private working with the seventh, which had absolutely zero foreshadowing and just appeared out of nowhere last episode. WRONG. From episode 3, Adlet was very surprised that the highest ranked officer in the fortress was someone so low ranked. Conveniently, all the ranked officer were killed "before any brave could meet them". The king is very secretive. Mora said it episode 5. He probably placed there very trustworthy high graded peoples. Conveniently, they all died before they could come in contact with a single rokka. There was also the weird fact that in the way Lauren put the altar, the sword didn't have a place to be put and was just laying on the ground. Do you think logical that the sword is just laying there? For years? A think that seems so well made with a lot of though and they didn't think of any other place to put the sword than on the floor ? Adlet also started to suspect Lauren to lie since two weeks ago. You were pointed out in that direction at that time as well. Furthermore, like I said, in a closed chamber, the first thing to think about is "how can the crime be commited OUTSIDE of the timeframe it has been said to be done". Before is impossible, because confirmed by two different peoples. Then after? What is required to do activate it after? That the way we heard about to activate the barrier is wrong, and that it was activated after the door were opened by one of the brave. That's a very, VERY common thing in that type of mystery. Technically, I saw anime watcher questioning the way of activating the barrier far before adlet did, simply by thinking that way, and they were right. In these last two or three episodes, the show kept bringing in the new info to make the clues fit. Thus there was absolutely no way to actually figure out what is going on. Wait. Why are you requesting to be able to find out the culprit more than one month before the MC? That's not how a detective story work. If the MC didn't hide any hint/clue from the viewer, it's functionnal and perfectly fine. You said it yourself "the previous episodes". So it was said to Adlet at the same time it was said to us. We didn't found, he found out with the same clues. They were here correctly before the solution, you just admitted it. The narrative presented us with a mystery. And then in the last part of it suddenly threw out all the parts of it out of the window to answer it. Sure it fits together but without a shitload of things thrown into viewer's face in last two or so episodes, there as no way to actually put the pieces together. And that is bad in terms of writing a mystery. No, that's wrong. Once again, you're being vague. It didn't threw any part out of the window. Everything was there, even the suspicion about the SINGLE LIE that was among the information received from everyone. From starter, the whole show has been about "one of them is lying". Why are you surprised now that one of them was indeed lying? BEcause you wrongly thought the one who was lying was the seventh and that no one outside had any right to lie? That's part of the rules in a detective story. Not having two main culprit, but a "helper" is allowed. Which is Lauren's position. The seventh is the main culprit and the "helper" just lied for the sake of the seventh. It's perfectly correct as a detective story. black1blade said: I do agree that Adlet's thought pattern isn't very logical. But you know, lateral thinking ftw. Nope, that was logical thinking, not lateral one. |
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black1blade said: I think it's CP's fate (see what I did there) to be ganged up on XD. Thing is your not going to sway anyone like you did with UBW :p. Quite the opposite. He's not being ganged up on - he's a one man army. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
geralt said: I think, unlike some other mysteries, the writer wants us to formulate the same incorrect hypothesis as Adlet and then slowly explain while they are incorrect by revealing new information which can then lead us to the true solution. Seems to me like some just don't enjoy this style of writing, but saying it's bad because it doesn't conform to a more typical system is quite silly tbh. +1 The truth has been spoken. |
| Omg, what's with this week and cliffhangers?! *sigh* Anyway, awesome episode and anime overall, I really love it all the way through. And for the 7th my guess from the start was either Maura or Goldov. Maura 'cause none of the braves suspected a saint and she was from the start all smartypants and kinda know-it-all. Goldov 'cause I kinda got the feeling he would like to protect the princess all the way and there was too little talk about him (although him kinda not killing Addlet when he clearly had a chance was either a proof that he's not the 7th or a really dumb decision) Now reading comments Nashetania has some sense too (although I'd prefer If she's not the 7th). Also I feel that Adlet wouldn't kick her like that if she was clear, maybe just push/throw her or smth like that. I know nothing anymore and my head is spinning. Next ep please come soon! Although I'm sad that it's the last one :((( |
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geralt said: I think, unlike some other mysteries, the writer wants us to formulate the same incorrect hypothesis as Adlet and then slowly explain while they are incorrect by revealing new information which can then lead us to the true solution. Seems to me like some just don't enjoy this style of writing, but saying it's bad because it doesn't conform to a more typical system is quite silly tbh. All this. |
geralt said: I think, unlike some other mysteries, the writer wants us to formulate the same incorrect hypothesis as Adlet and then slowly explain while they are incorrect by revealing new information which can then lead us to the true solution. Seems to me like some just don't enjoy this style of writing, but saying it's bad because it doesn't conform to a more typical system is quite silly tbh. Its kind of hard to form the same theories as Adlet when his theories include shit like "This was done to take out me because I am strongest man in the world! Its a conspiracy against me!" And if you are correct, the show should not have started its mystery phase with - "Those are the things and parameters this mystery operates with, here's the main question of the mystery". Because that engages viewer into trying to solve it and the viewer can't.So by the time the reveal happens it feels like a cop out Even the whole "Oh any info can be a lie" should have been ESTABLISHED beforehand with an example so the viewer should have A REASON to question the rules being laid out. It was not. I am kay with mysteries guiding me towards the answer. I don't think ill ever think the same way as let's say BBC's Sherlock Holmes in their Sherlock Adaptation. But the guiding should be a trail that can be followed. Not jumping around between most random theories till the MC gets kicked into the answer(literally) skudoops said: Another thing is the saint of fog can't produce a fog in that area, yet the saint of the sun can heat up that entire area + more? This came back to my point about us not knowing about the abilities of the saints.. why can't the fog saint create a barrier that big yet the sun saint can heat up an area that big? This is actually mentioned in the show like I stated before. This too. Yet another example of the narrative changing the rules on a whim for its own benefit and against the viewer. AT this point I would not be surprised if the 7th reveal would be "Oh its actually Adlet - he was faking his thoughts because character X can read minds!" - that would be right in line with how this mystery was handled. I guess I was expecting Sherlock Holmes or Poirot and instead got Code Geass. Oh well. Its depressing that the rest of the show stacks up so well - it does great job in tension and it is well directed and the viewer mistrusting every character works well - but the moment those downsides come in, it all falls apart. If the mystery part held up well this could have been 10/10 but now hinges between 8/10 and 7/10 depending on how the seventh reveal will go next week. |
AhenshihaelSep 12, 2015 3:42 PM
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| Adlet has been freed. Just has been done. Also fuck that cliffhanger. |
skudoops said: Jagd84 said: The only theories of Adlet was shutdown where the ones had to do with actual mechanics of the barrier works or how someone could have been opened the door before him. That's it. You don't need to know any of that to come up with his theory beyond that fact a Saint of Fog can't produced a barrier on this scale and that nobody could have entered the temple before Adlet. So this left the very real possibility of there being a fake fog (which Adlet brings up), and everyone being fed false information by Lauren since his model didn't match the altar that was the temple which Adlet brings up in episode 9. Rest just requires you to gone back into earlier episodes looking at the clues, like Riura missing, her being the Saint of Sun and the sudden heat before the trap was spong. It's a brilliant but simple plan that had facts for you slve but left enough room inpretation. Just because you were wrong doesn't make bad, in fact if I loved when mystery authors surpass my expectations in a logical manner. I wasn't wrong at all, I'm 100% certain the person I suspected from the get beginning is the 7th but ignoring that for a minute your first sentence didn't make sense to me. Every single defense he made was shut down due mechanics we didn't know about, why are you so easily brushing that aside? You don't need to know any of that to come up with his theory beyond that fact a Saint of Fog can't produced a barrier on this scale and that nobody could have entered the temple before Adlet. Look at what you are saying here, these are the two MAJOR reasons that people suspected adlet in the first place and why it was so difficult for the viewer to formulate a solution of their own in the beginning. Another thing is the saint of fog can't produce a fog in that area, yet the saint of the sun can heat up that entire area + more? This came back to my point about us not knowing about the abilities of the saints.. why can't the fog saint create a barrier that big yet the sun saint can heat up an area that big? This is actually mentioned in the show like I stated before. I am still enjoying the show, but I really can't defend the way it handled its mystery, there was too much emphasis on knowledge the viewer did not have. We know that riura can burn down castles. Castles are big. Also zef, I meant more that there was a slight jump in logic that Adlet did that was lateral in nature. "He knew he wasn't the 7th so he had to provide an explanation as to potentially how it happened. In fact that is an incredibly logical action even if the actual steps to get there weren't (adding in "always" here) logical (or strict vertical thinking)." |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
CookingPriest said: skudoops said: Another thing is the saint of fog can't produce a fog in that area, yet the saint of the sun can heat up that entire area + more? This came back to my point about us not knowing about the abilities of the saints.. why can't the fog saint create a barrier that big yet the sun saint can heat up an area that big? This is actually mentioned in the show like I stated before. This too. Yet another example of the narrative changing the rules on a whim for its own benefit and against the viewer. Castles are big. CASTLES ARE BIG DAMMIT ;") |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Euphemistic said: All the info was there. And you had pretty much the time until Adlet explained how it was done. CookingPriest is just salty af. +1 |
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black1blade said: CookingPriest said: This too. Yet another example of the narrative changing the rules on a whim for its own benefit and against the viewer. Castles are big. CASTLES ARE BIG DAMMIT ;") Shooting a sun laser beam at the castle =/= Heating up an are multiple kilometers long = creating fog in an are multiple kilometers long. |
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| Great episode, it went by so fast, the fights were really nice to see :3 I'm really hoping for a second season now as I'm catching up with the 1st volume of the LN and this is quality xD  I'm so sorry I usually don't even care about these things but I had to stop and laugh at this one xD It ws so bad |
 "In the past few months since we met, I've shared many memories with Nagato. Though I've also shared memories with Haruhi, Asahina-san and Koizumi, I found that I've experienced more events with Nagato in particular. In fact, every situation seems to involve her. I might as well mention this, she's probably the only person to cause the bell within me to shake the most vigorously..." ~ Kyon, TMOSH |
skudoops said: geralt said: I think, unlike some other mysteries, the writer wants us to formulate the same incorrect hypothesis as Adlet and then slowly explain while they are incorrect by revealing new information which can then lead us to the true solution. Seems to me like some just don't enjoy this style of writing, but saying it's bad because it doesn't conform to a more typical system is quite silly tbh. That's fine, misdirection is a thing in mystery stories and there's nothing wrong with it. The problem is the piecing together, you can't just reveal things and say "mystery solved" just like that, it cheapens the experience for the viewer/reader. But that wasn't done. In theory, anyone could have figured out this theory since episode 9 and then got it confirmed 2 episodes later, which to me is enough time. Of course, if you were hoping it'd be possible to understand it from the very beginning as is in many mystery stories, then I can see why you'd be bummed out. |
geraltSep 12, 2015 3:46 PM
| 5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
skudoops said: The guy who used the alien elephant example was pretty spot on in regards to how that feels. ^This lol CookingPriest said: Even the whole "Oh any info can be a lie" should have been ESTABLISHED beforehand with an example so the viewer should have A REASON to question the rules being laid out. It was not. I can confidently say that this was very well done. Firstly there have been two axioms the anime has presented us with, whether one should be suspicious or not. The rules at this point are laid out pretty well: Verbal information is to be considered trustworthy only if corroborated by visual evidence or the testimony of at least two people. Examples: - Claim: The barrier is impassable. Evidence: We see Adlet run with string (while Hans drags a stick) in a straight line, and they both end up back at their respective starting points. Verdict: Trustworthy. - Claim: Hans let slip that Nach was a princess before he could have possibly known that. Evidence: Only one character claims it, and the audience never heard it. Verdict: Not trustworthy. Basically one needs to go back and re-evaluate every single statement in this fashion. |
skudoops said: black1blade said: We know that riura can burn down castles. Castles are big. I know that, but remember she was heating up the fortress area as well as the area where the barrier temple was. Well we know some saint's are more powerful than others. Also fire is really really hot but just hot weather isn't so much. She can probably weaken the heat and extend the area. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
skudoops said: Jagd84 said: The only theories of Adlet was shutdown where the ones had to do with actual mechanics of the barrier works or how someone could have been opened the door before him. That's it. You don't need to know any of that to come up with his theory beyond that fact a Saint of Fog can't produced a barrier on this scale and that nobody could have entered the temple before Adlet. So this left the very real possibility of there being a fake fog (which Adlet brings up), and everyone being fed false information by Lauren since his model didn't match the altar that was the temple which Adlet brings up in episode 9. Rest just requires you to gone back into earlier episodes looking at the clues, like Riura missing, her being the Saint of Sun and the sudden heat before the trap was spong. It's a brilliant but simple plan that had facts for you slve but left enough room inpretation. Just because you were wrong doesn't make bad, in fact if I loved when mystery authors surpass my expectations in a logical manner. I wasn't wrong at all, I'm 100% certain the person I suspected from the get beginning is the 7th but ignoring that for a minute your first sentence didn't make sense to me. Every single defense he made was shut down due mechanics we didn't know about, why are you so easily brushing that aside? You don't need to know any of that to come up with his theory beyond that fact a Saint of Fog can't produced a barrier on this scale and that nobody could have entered the temple before Adlet. Look at what you are saying here, these are the two MAJOR reasons that people suspected adlet in the first place and why it was so difficult for the viewer to formulate a solution of their own in the beginning. Another thing is the saint of fog can't produce a fog in that area, yet the saint of the sun can heat up that entire area + more? This came back to my point about us not knowing about the abilities of the saints.. why can't the fog saint create a barrier that big yet the sun saint can heat up an area that big? This is actually mentioned in the show like I stated before. I am still enjoying the show, but I really can't defend the way it handled its mystery, there was too much emphasis on knowledge the viewer did not have. It's funny cuz she heated it over a month. The Saint of Fog can only create fog with a barrier. Which is impossible coz only 1 barrier at a time. Without the barrier, it's impossible for her to create a fog at once in such a huge forest. The Saint of the sun god, however, did this over a month and she doesn't need a barrier to work. Considering this is heat, and not mist, [insertthingsaboutthingshere] Yeah, basically. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
Frrrosty said: CookingPriest said: Even the whole "Oh any info can be a lie" should have been ESTABLISHED beforehand with an example so the viewer should have A REASON to question the rules being laid out. It was not. I can confidently say that this was very well done. Firstly there have been two axioms the anime has presented us with, whether one should be suspicious or not. The rules at this point are laid out pretty well: Verbal information is to be considered trustworthy only if corroborated by visual evidence or the testimony of at least two people. Examples: - Claim: The barrier is impassable. Evidence: We see Adlet run with string (while Hans drags a stick) in a straight line, and they both end up back at their respective starting points. Verdict: Trustworthy. - Claim: Hans let slip that Nach was a princess before he could have possibly known that. Evidence: Only one character claims it, and the audience never heard it. Verdict: Not trustworthy. Basically one needs to go back and re-evaluate every single statement in this fashion. I am sorry but that's not a clue. There's no way to follow that train of thought without already knowing it - you would not look at those cases that way unless you knew you had to look that way. The establishment of rules is missing. The only thing that was established was that any of seven can be lying. Nothing was said about outside factors. |
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CookingPriest said: skudoops said: Another thing is the saint of fog can't produce a fog in that area, yet the saint of the sun can heat up that entire area + more? This came back to my point about us not knowing about the abilities of the saints.. why can't the fog saint create a barrier that big yet the sun saint can heat up an area that big? This is actually mentioned in the show like I stated before. This too. Yet another example of the narrative changing the rules on a whim for its own benefit and against the viewer. Err what -_-". Riura's power was talked about in episode 2. We knew she could cover a very large surface. Furthermore, she was powerful enough to still be in Fremy's killing list even though she was too old (which is why Fremy said that she was low priority despite her strength). Fremy also said that the current saint of fog Uspa wasn't a problem for the fiends, but that if she could cover such a huge area she would have been a prime target. Not being able to do it instantly-> not being a target Being a target despite being too old to be a rokka should lead you to a result here. Furthermore, you're completely missing the point. The fog saint could cover it using 15 minutes. That's definitely not a long time. Simply, it contradicts the fact that the fog appeared instantly everywhere. But what about the saint of Sun then? THe power of the saint of the sun is to heat things with sun ray. She strong enough to make a castle burn. Making a place feel hot is freaking easy for her. No one said that the saint of sun had the power to cover the whole area instantly, BECAUSE IT ISN'T NEEDED. Even if it takes let's say, one month to cover the whole area, that's fine. What is important is that it's done by the time the rokka arrive, they had all the time of the world to do that part. After that, killing her will itnerupt her power, which lead to instant fog on the covered area. Adlet's answer is directly using the clues given in the episode. It takes TIME for a saint to cover the area with their power without a barrier. Then, what about a power that doesn't create fog, but that would result in fog when interupting it? You can take all your time covering the place, and then when interupted, the fog comes instantly no matter how powerful you are. The fog saint isn't powerful yet her power can cover the whole area within 15 minutes. Even if the saint of sun was weaker than the saint of fog (she isn't as proved above), she would just need lots of time to cover the area in heat. But she HAD that time anyway. She's been missing since one month. |
ZefyrisSep 12, 2015 3:56 PM
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Euphemistic said: I thought it was obvious that you should?... That one of seven is lying? Sure. That the set up of parameters outside the seven people can be a lie? Not really. At this point - "hey who said that the others are not fake - maybe they ALL are fake" as well as "hey who said that the six braves are working to save the world and seventh to stop them is right - maybe its the other way around!" are just as feasible because the rules are broken without the establishment of which rules can be lies. 2+2= 4 Right? Wrong! The + is actually a cross so its two numbers with a cross in between them. No wait thats a lie, its actually a drawing of a fence. |
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CookingPriest said: Frrrosty said: I can confidently say that this was very well done. Firstly there have been two axioms the anime has presented us with, whether one should be suspicious or not. The rules at this point are laid out pretty well: Verbal information is to be considered trustworthy only if corroborated by visual evidence or the testimony of at least two people. Examples: - Claim: The barrier is impassable. Evidence: We see Adlet run with string (while Hans drags a stick) in a straight line, and they both end up back at their respective starting points. Verdict: Trustworthy. - Claim: Hans let slip that Nach was a princess before he could have possibly known that. Evidence: Only one character claims it, and the audience never heard it. Verdict: Not trustworthy. Basically one needs to go back and re-evaluate every single statement in this fashion. I am sorry but that's not a clue. There's no way to follow that train of thought without already knowing it - you would not look at those cases that way unless you knew you had to look that way. The establishment of rules is missing. The only thing that was established was that any of seven can be lying. Nothing was said about outside factors. I don't see why you wouldn't suspect that anyone was telling the truth especially with anything related to the barrier because all the characters present seem to know pretty much nothing about it. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
apokaliz500 said: -SNIP- I agree with this and all, but that 'especially a girl' is bothering me. It doesn't matter the gender. >.> |
The sun is a deadly laser |
skudoops said: why can't the fog saint create a barrier that big? She CAN though, it's just that it would take time. The fog appeared immediately, the heat had plenty of time to form... EDIT: whoops, got ninja'd already |
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Jack_Atlas said: skudoops said: why can't the fog saint create a barrier that big? She CAN though, it's just that it would take time. The fog appeared immediately, the heat had plenty of time to form... EDIT: whoops, got ninja'd already don't worry it's easier to quote you :p. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
-Panda_Hero- said: Great episode, it went by so fast, the fights were really nice to see :3 I'm really hoping for a second season now as I'm catching up with the 1st volume of the LN and this is quality xD I'm so sorry I usually don't even care about these things but I had to stop and laugh at this one xD It ws so bad  |
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black1blade said: I don't see why you wouldn't suspect that anyone was telling the truth especially with anything related to the barrier because all the characters present seem to know pretty much nothing about it. Because the show presented us with the info about the barrier without presenting us the possibility of any info being fake? It requires a twilight zone level of out-of-nowhere information reveal - as a similar example "you are in a mansion and you see a corpse floating in mid air. How is it possible? Because the mansion is actually a room in a space station so it has no gravity!" - its the same level of logic leap that is impossible without outside information. |
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CookingPriest said: Euphemistic said: I thought it was obvious that you should?... That one of seven is lying? Sure. That the set up of parameters outside the seven people can be a lie? Not really. At this point - "hey who said that the others are not fake - maybe they ALL are fake" as well as "hey who said that the six braves are working to save the world and seventh to stop them is right - maybe its the other way around!" are just as feasible because the rules are broken without the establishment of which rules can be lies. 2+2= 4 Right? Wrong! The + is actually a cross so its two numbers with a cross in between them. No wait thats a lie, its actually a drawing of a fence. If you had no understanding of mathematics then you might well think that there is a cross between the numbers (if you know what numbers are..). |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
CookingPriest said: black1blade said: Castles are big. CASTLES ARE BIG DAMMIT ;") Shooting a sun laser beam at the castle =/= Heating up an are multiple kilometers long = creating fog in an are multiple kilometers long. Again, I keep relying on quotations/examples to support my reasoning (unlike some): Episode 9: Fremy: "Given her (saint of Fog's) powers, it would take her to cover the forest in 15 minutes, but the forest was covered instantly" Riura's power was in power since at least episode 3 (i.e. a lot more than 15 minutes): Adlet: "It's gotten a bit hot" Case and point. This deduces Riura could cause the entire peninsula to decrease in temperature to create fog since she had a lot of time to generate her power. Plus, Riura was the most experienced/powerful saint alive whilst the saint of fog is still inexperienced (see episode 6). |
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